newduls
newduls
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791306#Comment_791306
I'm actually in favor of the change because Legion is supposed to chain from one to another. There are times I hit someone with frenzy, know I won't be able to reach another, and then be accused of tunneling because I couldn't take advantage of my ability.
Legion is actually a hard killer to master, even with the limits on them. When to frenzy, when not to frenzy, knowing who to prioritize... it's all complex. It would make Legion just a little bit better and easier to get into if the frenzy was unlimited until everyone has been given DW. Then that'll make them go after the wounded Survivor before them. It'll encourage Legion players of actually applying pressure to multiple survivors, not just one because they're near.
Idk, they just need some kind of buff. This would be an example of a good buff.
right, but you just said it wouldn't make a much of a difference, but based on this, it sounds like you think it would.
@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791304#Comment_791304
I would love for Endgame Pig to come back. That playstyle is how I used to play pig, and it was very fun. Two traps for midgame, two for endgame. That way they couldn't just crawl through the gate and forces them to waste time and not leave. : P
IMO there was no reason to remove the effect even with the end game collapse. I also think trap triggers should not be tied to the generators, RBT should start ticking as soon as you are back on your feet.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791304#Comment_791304
So?
Pig is a little lady!
How does slightly tickling a pallet break it?
Demogorgon literally throws himself right at the pallet with full force
I agree Pig needs some buffs but this is not the way
you make no sense
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791269#Comment_791269
It's also impossible to down people while in frenzy, so it's not like that would change much in the long run.
if it wouldn't change much, why implement it?
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791286#Comment_791286
Demo is also a huge monster from a different dimension while pig is a little lady with an assassins creed knife
lol so? the reason something happens has nothing to do with the character models and everything to do with how the killer is balanced.
Pig could use a little chase love since her indirect nerf caused by the end game collapse.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791174#Comment_791174
That is like saying pig's dash should do that
and why shouldn't it? The demos does. It would allow the pig to use the dash in a chase more effectively, which is already a good strategy to try and mind juke at pallets, it would just make it more inline withe other killers powers of a similar nature (billy, bubba, demo).
The demos pallet break actually takes longer then kicking a pallet, but allows you to gap close so, forcing survivors to drop pallets or take a hit. Which is how , I'm sure they'd do that for the pig.
But legions version of that, the one you get with the UR, isn't anything like the pigs or the demo's power. So, I agree it shouldn't be his basekit, but your comparison and reasoning behind why are way off base.
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It was part or the nerf they executed when legion was being used in a way that the community was outraged by because it was deemed not fun, BHVR agreed. At some point legion will get a proper rework I'm sure.
If frenzy was unlimited, which it should be based on the current base kit, then legion would be reasonable. As it stands he/she is in a pretty mediocre place
UNLIMITED FRENZY, you say! You're crazy, you say!
Actually its not, it would work perfectly fine.
2 strikes on the same survivor and you're knocked out. Hit by a pallet, knocked out. Missed strike knocked out. The current design would make unlimited frenzy perfect for playing the way legion was intended. Which was, go around and stab everyone once, then chase the last stabbed person and down them.
Though I would say, that I'd add one more, knock out of frenzy scenario. That is if everyone is in deep wounds, then you get knocked out of frenzy and the frenzy time limit is enforced in subsequent frenzy's. This would prevent frenzy from being abused.
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any post like this, which blatantly attacks the devs is just not constructive. It's childish. Though perhaps the OP is in fact a child.
In any case, the real problem most people fail to understand, I'd say, is that what makes this game fun is primarily the "f***" you moments, and the fright moments. The adrenaline evoked by the rush of being in a dangerous situation (obviously not a real one), followed by the relief and elation of successfully escaping or the jump scare
Thus, fun while playing survivor comes in that last minute gen finish just as the killer swings (hit or miss). The exit open save with DS that makes it so the saved person escapes. The flash light save, the pallet drop save, the locker burst save. Jukes all elicit this as well.
Consequently, this isn't contrary to the KILLER having fun, in fact the killer can still have fun while all these things are happening to him, as long as the results of these things isn't absolute salvation for the survivors(most of the time anyways). A flashlight save with a hook followed within 15 secs becuase you downed the flashlighter, or because you caught up with the saved guy again, etc etc.
What really isn't fun for anyone is sub 6 min games, where 1 or 2 chases occur and everyone escapes.
OR
Everyone dies because the killer camps, and everyone just throws themselves at him.
For the most part survivors don't mind dieing, and killers don't mind people escaping, as long as they have fun.
As it stands in the low ranks its not fun because the killer appears OP, mostly because the survivors are so bad. In the mid ranks its a mixed bag. And at high ranks survivors are "OP" in many scenarios because the can pull off so many of the risky saves and the result is absolute salvation due to the duration of the games.
Players of this game think they know what they want and what makes the game fun, most of them don't.
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@RobJL87 said:
The important thing is that on their end, they were close enough to hit you.
That quote is very untrue, playing killer a lot of the time the mature killers say 'wow that hit?' A lot! Or the idiots 'hahahaha hitboxed!!!'
and there is just as many times when a killer misses when he should have hit and curses the hit box. It cuts both ways
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/786082#Comment_786082
I never said a Pro-SWF doesn't fall under the same thing as a Pro-Nurse or Pro-Spirit.
I hate when people just stuff words in my mouth I didn't say, look... if you face a Pro-SWFs than it depends on if you LIKE a challenge or not... I can't say the same for others who don't like SWFs of course.
The same is with Spirit and Nurse if they have no room for error and will destroy your team. A decent team doesn't want to face those two Killers with players that main them and know every trick in the book, the same goes for a decent Killer facing a Pro-SWFs that will play the game and use every loop in the most efficient way possible.
So yes, of course both sides have things that make them NOT FUN TO FACE. Killers can use moris, Iridecent hatchet heads, Pinky finger for toxin, infinite tier llls, Prayer Beads, etc...
The same goes for Survivors, it's not fun facing Insta-heal med-kits, a full SWFs, a solo team gen rushing, etc, etc.
Obviously both sides have things that can make the experience not fun... It just depends who you're as a player if you enjoy the challenge or not. And if you don't and you want a simple M1 Killer or just a solo team with no SWFs on coms... than there ya go!
I never put words you your mouth, my first paragraph wasn't an assertion that you thought a pro swf was fun to play against, it was simple setting up the focus on the hypocrisy of your assertion that it isn't fun for survivors to play against a nurse or spirit because the game cannot be won if the nurse or spirit does not make any mistakes.
For 15 of the killers this is ALWAYS the case, and even a pro nurse, who makes no mistakes can still "lose" a game against a pro survivor swf team.
This is not reflective of how I feel about the balance of the game, it is simple a demonstration of why what you wrote, and the way you wrote it is hypocritical.
also, since you want to throw a tantrum about "words in mouth", I said "pro survivors" not pro swf. In any case, I'm not bothered, because thats what a discussion really is, a back and forth, in which through the use of words we come to understand each others thoughts. This involves making assumptions about the thoughts and feelings of the writer because your mind is impossible to read. It is then your responsibility to provide feedback that allows me a deeper understanding. Its of course common in the written word for people to overreact and read everything with a tone of hostility. But I assure you that isn't the case. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy because I enjoy reading the forums while I'm waiting for games or avoiding work :p.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/785943#Comment_785943
Allow me to repeat, its fun to face Nurse if she isn't a pro... a decent Nurse is fun to face because they make mistakes.
Facing a pro nurse is almost a death sentence... because she'll know all the mind-games and tricks Survivors will do against her, and as such she'll also know to how far to blink and how long she needs to charge said blink...
Like I also said, some people like the challenge, others don't like facing OP Killers, some just want to face regular Killers that don't ignore the games mechanics, that's just how it is...
This is really funny of you to say.
Its not fun to play killer against pro survivors. They can go perkless and it will still not be fun. You might have a chance to kill or hook a few of them if you're playing a top tier killer, but even then, any mistake and they probably just waltz out while tbagging you.
Its hypocritical to focus on the killers ruining the survivors fun under the presumption that the killer playing a perfect game means the survivors will lose. Because its only the nurse and the spirit (maybe), in which the killer holds the game in there hands. That is 2 of 17 killers where the killer wins by playing perfectly. In every other killers case the killer is 100% dependent on survivor mistakes to win.
Absurd.
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the real problem isn't the game, but the players who want to "win". There really isn't a winner or loser.
Killers don't win when they kill everyone. Survivors don't lose because they die.
Edit*
I should have mentioned that I said this as it relates to the concept of the pipping system. The current pipping system demonstrates that a "win" for a killer, which would be a merciless victory for a killer generally is not possible in a sub 6 min game (I'm talking a gen rush game, where you might get the 2 kills the OP mentions).
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@Victory said:
Gen rushing is nothing but the killers fault, apply pressure on hooks and slugging.
lol, gen rushing is not the killers fault.
Gen rushing is just the natural by product of nature of the game.
There are no viable alternative strategies if your purpose is "survival".
The hands down best way to survive is to get the gates open as quickly as possible. The longer you are in the trial the more things start to work against you.
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/453114#Comment_453114
That really doesn't seem fair to survivors. The goal isn't to make the game unfair to survivors. The goal is to put the brakes on the game a little bit.
it can be calibrated to any game lenght, if the minimum game length of 8 mins is too long you only need to reduce the lock out time...
if you believe the fair game length is 5 mins then make it 1 min each.
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They could add new objectives, but its not really necessary.
The gens themselves simple need to be gated.
That is, when the game starts, only 1 of the 7 generators can be worked on, all the rest of the generators would be blocked. The killer should not know which ones are blocked.
Every 2 mins an additionally generator is unlocked.
That way the general duration of the game is 100% controlled by the developers. With 7 total generators available, it would take 12 mins for them all to become "unlocked". At 5 gens to win the game length would always be guaranteed to be over 8 mins
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what rank are you playing at?
it seems to me its a BP generation issue. Once you had 30 vials (now 60) the only sensible side to play is killer, since you can still get all the bonus points for hooking survivors.
while you still had vials to fill if you died early you'd still usually generate at least 30k bp, but post vial fill, if you died early you were out of luck.
At R1 it seems to me the survivors are all completely done with needing nectar.
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While not necessarily poorly conceived, Freddy's current power is sadly lackluster.
In your starting state, you're absolutely 0 threat.
additionally, your power is a 100% requirement to be able to play at all. No other killer has this requirement. Though nurse is certainly extremely difficult without her power.
Your end game is also abysmal and while there are some builds that can make his end game frightening, they have so many prerequisite for it working out in your favor, other then it being a fun build to play to see if you can pull it off, it isn't generally successful.
Don't get me wrong, I can play Freddy , and do so successfully even at R1. But, without a doubt, he is handicapped.
Freddy shouldn't need to sleep people. They should passively fall asleep over time. While asleep they should experience frightening manifestations. Players appear to go down or be hooked when they aren't, generators appearing that aren't there, heart beats that aren't really, etc etc, similar to the doctor. To wake up they must be hit by Freddy. The aura reading should be removed.
Freddy's power could be that his hand stretches from his arm and strikes you. If he hits you, he should teleport to you and then does some freddy-esk animation of glee, that last 1.5 x the regular wipe animation. The stretch should be maybe 12-15 meters long, and freddy should be rooted in place, but can control its flight path (meaning he can do it around corners), it should travel at 1.8 x the speed of the survivors. If it strikes a surface it should return (but it should automatically route over generators, through windows, and short walls). Freddy remains rooted until it returns.
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get rid of the roar or
have the roar cause 15 secs of exhaustion if you're within 15 m
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There are no perks that effectively counter SC. All of the killer perks that reduce time for survivors to complete objectives are negligible at best or hard countered at worst. Healing is a survivor secondary objective, in terms of how objectives may be defined on the survivors side.
The OP has identified the core of the imbalance with SC. But that isn't even the TRUE core of the problem. Healing in general is simple too easy and its made easier by SC. The upcoming patch will help a little. But won't change the identified problem of SC.
SC shouldn't even be a perk imo. The perk instead should be the opposite of Empathy. When you are injured it should reveal all other survivors up to 32/64/infinite. This would help you avoid the killer and find someone to heal you faster.
One of the reasons SC is so detrimental is because survivors MOVING around is critical to survivors REVEALING themselves. The less survivors have to move, the less likely they are to be seen.
So effectively, other then delaying the overall time the game lasts (which is beneficial to the killer, but marginally so at the current SC heal times), SC is free healing because you just need to find a safe place to hide and it doesn't matter how long it takes to heal.
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I can't even imagine how horrid R1 play would be without the billy or nurse as an option.
I play all the killers at R1, but when I want a fair shake I play nurse or billy. When I choose any other killer I do so for the challenge, knowing full well I'll probably get stomped.
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@MuteNewt said:
I never use Ruin. It bothers me that it can be destroyed. To be honest you cant only use Ruin and expect to slow down gen rushing. The devs have more than enough other perks to help you out. Keep your Ruin but try adding on Thanatophobia and Dying Light and I bet you the games will go drastically better. While they are searching for your totem you are bound to come across a few survivors. Hit them to kick in Thanatophobia, which will further entice the people staying fighting the Ruin to look for the totem. Then as that is going on you can hunt your Dying Light survivor. Or you can wait until he is naturally killed if the game is going on your favor. Hope this helps. Good luck!
Ruin doesn't slow down games because of the ruin effect. It slows down games because survivors look for the totem instead of doing gens. If survivors tap gens or just power through the skill checks, then the difference in game speed is trivial.
Thanatophobia and Dying light do not slow down games. At least not in the red ranks. They are both more of a waste then ruin, for the most part
Thanatophobia gives you a 15% reduction in repair speed if 4 survivors are injured. 80 Secs is the base repair time, that means with a 15% reduction it takes 92 secs instead. Having 4 people injured hooked at the same time is a rarity and if you do, probably would have won that game perkless.
The most common scenario is 1 survivor injured at a time, which adds only 4.8 secs to repair time... then once that person dies you lose the bonus...
Thanatophobia's value was always when paired with NC because it pushed survivors to heal (they just can't help it, when they see the badge, it becomes a compulsion). However, under the current meta, its completely unnecessary to pair thana with nc, because everyone heals right away anyways.
Dying light requires that you've killed someone. On average, in red ranks, a single chase allows the completion of 2 gens. Your obssesion will most likely have DS, so you 2 gens is guaranteed, maybe 3. Then you've either got to camp him, or hope you find him again quickly (and have a mori).
If you camp him, then by the time he is dead all the gens will be done, if you don't , and you manage to find him and catch him a 2nd time, the most likely scenario is you're down to 1 gen.
In most scenarios, dying light never has a chance to impact the game. When it does it usually wouldn't have mattered anyways.
Prior to the mori nerf, if you had a green or red mori, it was an excellent perk that would virtually guarantee a long game. Currently its mostly a wasted slot.
There are 2 killers that can be effective without ruin. Nurse/Billy. These 2 killers are more effective WITH ruin.
Which is specifically the problem. If you play without ruin, while you can and will still win(sometimes), the game would have been easier if you had it.
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You assessments of what needs to change are pretty far off base imo.
Though your statement concerning balance isn't off base. The game needs to be survivor favored simple because if it was equal then there wouldn't be enough survivors playing, so killers are always going to play at a disadvantage.
DBD has a special advantage compared to a game like evolve, because dbd CAN and SHOULD be a 1v1v1v1v1, not a 4v1 game.
That is, they should adjust the nature of the game so that as a survivor winning isn't about surviving, winning is about being the last survivor.
When you die should matter. Being the 1st survivor to go down should be a huge loss of rank/points.
Being the last survivor to die should give you bonus points, but all survivors escaping shouldn't be what you're after either. As a survivor you should want the other survivors around long enough to help you escape but ultimately you want them to die.
A "I don't have to run faster then the killer only faster then you" type mentality.
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@SovererignKing said:
@newdulsMake it 45 seconds, and we have a deal.
I think 45 would be fine, the final number could obviously be tweaked to fit whatever target testing shows to be the most balanced.
The point is, looking for the last survivor isn't fun for the killer, and having no hope of escape isn't fun for the survivor.
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Any hatch discussion has to start with the question, do you think the hatch in its current state is broken?
If you answer "no" to this question then any discussion around changing it is pointless because it's currently so insanely survivor sided that anyone answering no, has already shown they aren't looking for it to be more fairly balanced.
If you answer "yes", then you should view the hatch as a tool of purpose. One which should enhance the game experience for both the killer and the survivor.
Once 1 survivor remains, the game dragging on is not fun. For the killer, the purpose of the hatch should be the prevention of the game dragging on for too long.
For the survivor the hatch serves as a last chance escape.
The last version on the PTB, in which the killer could close the hatch and all the gens were completed, was a decent option, but ultimately provided a RNG 75/25 escape/kill chance.
Why? Because hatch placement becomes the RNG factor that ruins the killers chance for a kill. The killer has 2 gates to check. If the hatch is too far from either, the survivor wins for sure, additionally, if the killer chooses the wrong gate the survivor wins. On rare occasion the hatch may be in a position to allow the killer to protect both gates.
So while, it may have looked favorable on the PTB, over time and experience, survivors would learn to simple hide by a gate and wait for the hatch to be closed.
IMO, the hatch should be removed from the game as a last chance escape. The hatch should only be openable by a key. When the final survivor remains, a timer should start, 30 secs. The aura of the survivor is revealed to the killer. When timer ends the gates open.
This solves both problems. The game will never drag on, and the final survivor must be good enough to last in a chase for 30+ secs.
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@Nos37 said:
Another, more complicated, rework of Saboteur:- Have it require 100% completion uninterrupted
- The hook does not break after completion. Instead, it remains sabotaged until the killer hooks a survivor on it.
- The survivor counts as having been hooked, before the hook drops, stuns the killer, and frees the survivor.
- The killer, as part of the stun animation, has to reset the hook which removes the sabotaged effect.
- Survivors who are "dead on hook" when hooked will still be sacrificed, and there will not be a stun.
Yes, it sounds overpowered like Decisive Strike (the survivor gets away), but, unlike Decisive Strike, it's not free; they have been hooked. Also, the killer doesn't have to wait for the hooked survivor to be rescued. They can get right back to searching for and chasing the survivor, speeding up the overall find-chase-down-hook loop.
I think this would be a fun rework, however, it would become meta for sure, which would make it so that it would happen on every hook.
I think it would need to operate so that the hook breaks near the end of the phase instead of at time of hook. Maybe after... 20 secs of hanging/struggling?
If a survivor is saved from the hook the hook resets and won't break the next time someone is hooked on it.
Additionally, sabotage time should be increased by 50 to 100%
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This wouldn't give them their balls back. It would just change the killer meta a little and push survivors to focus on the gens even more.
Given enough time a killer will always kill everyone. Let's just say for example, we took out the exit gates completely, let's say instead of escaping survivors are just working for points. Infinite # of generators. The survivor who "wins" is the survivor with the most points, points are achieved ONLY via generator progress.
All survivors would EVENTUALLY DIE, the duration of the game would be the only thing in question.
The issues with killers is not how powerful, simple how the time to chase vs the time to complete gens is currently balanced.
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We could change skill checks to be increasingly difficult based on the survivors rate of success. They keep track of statistics for all of us I'm sure, one of those could be my skill check miss rate. Right now skill checks only use a single key (spacebar or remapped to whatever on pc for example). How about in addition to moving wheel, you change it so that key changes if you haven't missed a skill check in your last 3(X changeable value of course) skill checks. Then up it further so that skill checks chain together if you haven't missed one after 5(Y) number of skill checks (add more sections to the wheel, each section with different keys). Then up it further with each success And keep going to a point where it becomes either :
A) impossible to complete or
so annoying the survivor fails on purpose to get back to the easy ones.Making it wheels inside wheels, with independent spinners all of which require you hit a different key, sounds like its getting pretty hard to me. I mean eventually, you'd have to start using toes , 11 wheels with 11 different buttons to be pressed... literally becomes impossible.
Increasing skill check failures at high ranks would be a great way to bring the duration of the survivor game inline with the duration of the chase. The important part of that is that the survivors must have a significantly higher failure rate. As longs as skill checks are succeeded 99% of the time, or they can be avoided by gen tapping, they are meaninglessly trivial.
IMO, BHVR should also remove the randomness from skill checks. A skill check should occur at fixed points of progress on the generator, every 5% of progress for example. In doing this they would be able to use skill checks as a point of balance, or even as a point of game flow control that dynamically adapts to the state of the game.
at 5% a skill check survivors would be doing 20 skill checks per generator. Upon missing a skill check they would lose 10% which would set them back 2 skill checks, but due to the increasing difficulty nature of the skill checks would have easier skill checks until they built up progress again.
Working together, would cause all survivors to have to hit the skill checks, any number of them missing would count as only 1 break, so only a 10% loss, instead of the current nature which is, independent assessments of failure. Survivors individual skill check difficulty chains are only broken if THEY miss a skill check. This would make working together SIGNIFICANTLY HARDER, which is a trade-off for the significant speed boost.
Additionally I would consider adding additional objectives that require survivors to move around more.
Let's say at 50% the survivors have to go find a part to install. The part is heavy and reduces their movement speed by 20% (walking/running/crouching). It causes you to leave scratch marks while walking, and the scratch marks left while running last 100% longer. Installing the part takes 20 secs, has 1 2 wheel skill check at 10 secs that if you miss adds 20 more secs to the install and notifies the killer if your skill check chain success rate was above the value required to put you at a 2 wheel skill check on a generator (so if you were generally good enough that you should have hit that skill check but missed).
4 parts appear when the generator hits 50%, additional parts appear for each generator that hits 50% up to 12 parts total on the map at a time. This would make it so that as you get more generators to 50% it gets easier to find them. Each time you install a part, 3 parts disappear from the map. These parts do not require that you drop your item to carry.
At 99% the survivors have to go find the starter switch. Starter switches are not heavy and do not reduce your movement speed, but they spark every 10 seconds giving a visual display (they do not spark while on the ground) that the killer can see from 20 meters easily if they are looking your direction. There are 20 starter switches strewn through the map from the start of match. The starter switch requires you drop your item to carry.
BNP should be removed or reworked again. Using the above rules, the bnp could allow you to skip the 50% looking for part phase.
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the freedy fix is indeed easy.
No wake up from missed skill checks. Done. Wake up can only be achieved by hook/ally/healed while down.