hermitkermit
hermitkermit
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005661#Comment_4005661
Here’s the original claim…
“They didn't forget to un-nerf the regression perks that were impacted by the hook incentives, and while I figured there was still some weird way they just 'forgot' to do the same for the survivor side, they did cancel two perk buffs, so they did go over this.They consciously decided to keep the survivor nerfs”
So, the original response was this claim is incorrect, because BHVR didn’t actually un-nerf all the regression perks.
Dead Man’s Switch is still nerfed…. And Leverage is also still nerfed. I originally didn’t mention Leverage, because I didn’t want to deal with anyone trying to argue that Leverage “was actually buffed”, even though it’s obviously meant to be a nerf.
I see what you’re saying, but my point was a little different. You brought up pick rate in the context of these nerfs, which made it sound like the implication was that the nerfs were justified because of popularity. That’s what I was responding to, since I wanted to be sure I wasn’t misunderstanding. I was just surprised to see it, that’s all. Thanks for clarifying.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005240#Comment_4005240
Dead Man’s Switch still has its nerf intact, and that perk has a much higher pick rate than both OTR and Tenacity combined.
Regardless on if this is true or not- I thought we all as a community collectively agreed for the most part that just because a perk/add-on/item etc. gets used often doesn’t mean it should be nerfed?
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I highly recommend the video Hens just posted about it. I feel the people that are belittling her abilities or strength simply don't quite understand how to play her, or they are just heavily biased. She is very strong and will likely see changes soon as she is too much right now.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004417#Comment_4004417
Werent the timers for the afk crows nerfed into irrelevance?
Its funny how killers are blamed for the ptb backlash yet people ignore this.
A major issue with the AFK crows was the false flagging. Something many killers also pointed out the PTB tunnel system had. The difference is that false flagging in one would give you a sever disadvantage and punishment, and the other would give you a severe disadvantage and punishment - with an actual penalty. If we can admit that the anti-tunnel PTB was not performing correctly, we can also admit that the AFK system also not performing correctly.
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I love this :)
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003359#Comment_4003359
well the devs should give us killers a reason to not tunnel there’s no incentive to not tunneling it’s the fastest and most efficient way of winning
I do believe that was the point of the PTB.
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@Royval said:
I just don’t understand how players don’t bring anti tunnel when tunneling is so rampant in the game right now it’s literally throwing the game at the load screen
I used to bring antitunnel perks pretty often, but I stopped because I was still dying consistently. If they were stronger, they’d definitely see more play, but right now they just don’t offer enough compared to perks like SB or Resurgence. I mean when DS was longer, yeah, everyone brought it and killers actually didn’t tunnel because the risk was too high. These current antitunnel perks aren’t punishing enough to offset the value of getting the tunnel out. Even when you build entirely around countering tunneling, most players admit it won’t necessarily save you. At best, it helps your team.
That creates this weird acceptance: I’ll run these perks, but I know I can still get tunneled out. But At least someone else might live. It feels kinda like you’re put in a corner where the choice isn’t “win or lose” but “lose… or lose slightly better”
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I personally am of the opinion that there wasn’t enough time to be able to gather the necessary data in order for that decision to be because of stats. There is a buffer that needs to take place of something new being introduced and giving the community time to learn counter play. I do not think that the .. (2?) days the PTB had was giving the community time to learn counter play. In the same way with fog vials as well, which I believe were around for like 9 days. If a new killer was released and they pulled them from the game after 2 days, I would be very concerned and confused because those 2 days are not a good measurement for how strong/weak a killer is. People need some time to learn how to play AS and AGAINST them, and I wouldn’t support a 2 day life span.
I do think a lot of it may have to do with big names and content creators, and just how negatively the PTB was perceived and just how many threatened to quit entirely. If you look at BHVR like a business, if you had a product that enraged your sponsors and they were threatening to leave, you’d probably want to pull that product ASAP. Just my personal opinion
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I would take a break. I have, and while it sucks cause this was my favorite game, there’s no real incentive for changes to be made unless it affects the numbers. I’m a drop in the bucket, I’m aware, but everything starts small.
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As many have said above, killers have the ability to practice with bots. It’s an incredible resource and you can decide everything from your own perks to survivor perks to maps and items. I would absolutely use it.
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I’m sorry you’re still dealing with bugs :(
Hopefully she will receive some QOL soon. She’s been in this state for a loooong time. Upsetting to see the pile of bugs or clunkiness getting bigger. The mass amount of content this game pushes out is both the best thing about DBD and the worst. -
🎉🥳🍾 congrats!
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Smash.
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@terumisan said:
sounds like you haven't played killer matches where survivors are competent
Can I ask you to clarify that a bit? Are you referring to strictly high MMR survivor gameplay? If so, what do you feel is a fair escape rate for that top 5% of MMR? Do you feel that 48% is unreasonable?
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I am all for it if killer bots are introduced. Maybe this will be a QOL improvement in the future.
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I do not believe tunneling would stop even if people brought these perks to counter, because of the current value they provide. When DS was longer, sure, killers didn't tunnel as often but it's not that strong anymore. Also, DS is behind a paywall. OTR is much longer, but it is enduranced based which means against certain killers it won't help you, and can be quickly negated if hit direclty under the hook. It's also behind a paywall. If the anti-tunnel tools were stronger then yes, I do think tunneling wouldn't be as common as we have seen that to be the case in the past. But currently, the tools aren't as strong as they were, which means the threat/risk of these perks are not as high as they used to be, which is why killers still tunnel even through these perks. I'm sure I'm not the only one who got a successful DS and still was tunneled out, regardless. Doesn't Blastmine have a longer stun than DS? I believe its 4 while DS is 3? Again, it's jut not very strong.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000086#Comment_4000086
While true that tunneling has been (and likely will continue to be) the #1 pain point for survivors, it wasn't always as prevalent as it is today. I remember back in around 2019/2020, when I was hovering around the red ranks for most of the time, I rarely saw tunneling. Maybe a few instances in maybe 1/15 games or so, but not as much as it is today, where you see it in at least 50% of the games you play.
It got worse after 6.7.2 when healing got nerfed, since killers could now abuse the fact that healing was MUCH slower, and it was also a side-product of the gen-kick limit being put into place, thanks to some very unfun strategies, involving a certain Chess Merchant.
Also, the finisher mori certainly didn't help the cause either, since now, the killers often tunnel out two people as fast as possible, goes for the third one, to get them hooked, after slugging the fourth survivor, while humping them as they wait for the sacrifice. - I have seen this too much lately in my games, especially by killers like Ghoul and Blight, but also instadown killers like Bubba is very prone to use this tactic. And this trend has increased a lot lately, since the PTB details became known.Yes, that's a good observation. I do agree that it can come in waves. It's part of the reason I don't agree with the idea that if all regression was buffed across the board, and if gens were extended, then people would stop tunneling because the only reason they do is because gens are too fast. I simply cannot believe that because the history of the game has proven otherwise. The COB era was a good exmaple of this, and my favorite example is the first 2v8 and how many players slugged despite there being no reason to. The majority of players will always take advantage and go for the path of least resistance, regardless of the gaming genre. I mean heck, there's entire youtube channels dedicating to cheesing levels, finding glitches, exploits, etc. in games from Zelda to Destiny. Gamers have been taking shortcuts for decades and that's not going to change in DBD if gens are made longer.
But yes, I do agree with you. It seems like currently tunneling/slugging has had an uptic after the almost-changes, almost like some kind of punishment. Another example of it ebbing and flowing I suppose.
(edited for some spelling errors) -
@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000130#Comment_4000130
Nah. It doesn’t mean killers should always 4K — it means killers should have a real shot at a 4K vs ANY lobby. Hitting Ready isn’t an auto-lose against spezific lobbys. The outcome comes down to map/RNG, spawns, perk synergy, tiny (very little) misplays on both sides, and a couple won/lost 50/50 tiles. Even vs stacked top teams, killer should be able to win — without turning it into an auto-win for survivors the moment they make not huge missplays.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000125#Comment_4000125
And? I
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000137#Comment_4000137
know that. Cool, but does that 60% include DCs, hook suicides, meme games/throwing, over-agg saves that feed the killer, or SWFs that refuse a death and overcommit? If that stuff isn’t filtered, the number is noisy.Is it split solo vs SWF, and then by MMR? (A lot of SWFs aren’t great, and many have 1–2 weaker players.) Without that segmentation it’s just an average that can hide where a role lacks—or has too much—agency.Even if BHVR aims for 60/40, the aggregate doesn’t prove fairness. SoloQ can prop the rate up while coordinated SWFs are nearly unpunishable. Depending on how DCs / “let’s have fun with this killer” games / suicides / inefficiency are counted, the headline stat tells you more about player behavior than role balance.Balance is about capability, not a single outcome metric: can a well-played killer actually threaten a 4K vs any comp without praying for throw-tier mistakes, and can solid survivors convert smart macro into escapes? Publish segmented stats (MMR brackets, SWF vs solo, map, region, time of day, killer pickrate) and design to those—not one glossy number.Otherwise all this shows is that many survivor groups are sloppy, inefficient, too aggro or too passive—and sure, that inflates kills. But what about groups that play clean and efficient for the win? At that point the game swings survivor-favored, and your killrates won’t reveal it—they’ll just average it away.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000137#Comment_4000137
true..
and.. the downvote ratio every time someone says anything even slightly pro-killer is wild.
but.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SX8AR1DVRTZT/r4545.jpg
.. its so funny. xD
Firellius said that the devs have openly stated they do favor the killer in terms of balancing, and you asked for an official source. I was giving you the official sources you asked for, that’s all.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999933#Comment_3999933
got an official source for that?
as for asymmetry: in a 1v4, the four survivors scale with coordination and shared resources, while the killer is a single point of pressure. If both sides play clean, gens finish unless the killer has extra agency (mobility/info/slowdown) to force downs—so balance must lean killer enough to prevent stalemates. “killer-sided” here means sufficient threat to punish mistakes and actually resolve matches, not “killer should auto-win.”
I have a source that might help with this. It's from "New Stats! [Pickrates, Killrates & Escape Rates] (January - March 2025)"
This showcases the intended higher killrates, the lower escape rates, and further specify "which largely falls in line with our intended Killer balance" along with providing average vs. high MMR. I also have this:
Basically saying it is their goal to improve the overall kill rate, specifically. (this is from 2022 as well, as it's been the goal for a few years now). They've been pretty open about wanting killrates to be higher for awhile now, and to keep survivor around 40%. This "imabalance" is the intended "balance".
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999768#Comment_3999768
They know this. People around here are just intentionally misconstruing the situation to play into a victim narrative.
The developers were very clear that the systems will be returning after being tweaked. People are intentionally ignoring that because it doesn't fit their agenda. And it's painfully obvious because no one will comment on it further than issuing downvotes to anyone who points it out.
I don’t think everyone is trying to construct a victim narrative, I think people are just upset. In the same way people were upset about these changes possibly coming to live. And while yes, thankfully they did say they plan on tweaking the changes and that it isn’t totally scrapped, it doesn’t mean that those changes will come in a decent timeframe (like SM) or that the changes won’t be poorly received.
I think a big fear is that the tweaks will go into the opposite direction, where the original was too strong so the addition will be way too weak, a common trend that we’ve seen when changes come to past perks, maps, or killer reworks, even as recent as Fog Vials. Especially when there is a part of the player base that doesn’t want any changes at all because they don’t agree that these are even issues. But tunneling has been possibly the #1 pain point for survivor role since the game came out like 9 years ago. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to be disappointed that it’s been pushed back— again. I understand you may feel differently, and that’s okay, but thought I would actively engage in your post as it seems to be annoying you that some people aren’t (which is totally valid).
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Statistically yes, as they want killer to be in the power role, wanting killers to win more than they lose and survivors to lose more then they win. Hence the goal of 60% killrates and the 40% escape rates. I personally think that’s okay though, because I believe it’s a fair trade off and offers incentive for playing killer.
In my opinion, If killer is always forced to be solo, then they should win more. We need killers to be in the power role, because that’s one of the only ways to have incentive to play that role. That’s the trade off. You can’t play with your friends but you win more often. And vice versa, you get to play with your friends but you will lose more often. Though to be honest, there aren’t really many incentives to play solo survivor over SWF, something I think is very unfortunate as solo does make up the majority of survivor and yet despite how hated SWF is .. I don’t really see any kind of benefit of playing Solo over it.
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I feel that while it may not be a standard party game, it is a casual one. There’s no rank mode, no restrictions, and the MMR is very loose. Even a game like Rocket League has a ranked mode.
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The slugging and tunneling updates didn’t make it out of PTB. They’re not going live.
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@BOFH said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994596#Comment_3994596
You were correct up until that last sentence.
Killer mains have been begging and screaming at BHVR to stop balancing via spreadsheet (i.e. "Perk X is picked too often, better nerf it!") and to start looking at why players bring/don't bring certain perks and what gameplay systems can be tweaked to encourage different playstyles.
As an example, instead of nerfing gen regression perks for the thousandth time, they could instead negate the need for them in the first place by reducing the time per hook stage and increasing how long it takes to do gens, and maybe look at certain gen speed perks and toolboxes if really necessary.
By taking the pressure off of killers to keep up gen pressure, it gives killers a lot more breathing room to bring other perks instead.
Unfortunately, at this point in the game's balance cycle, the game systems on an inherent level mandate picking the four best gen regression perks while tunneling and/or slugging and/or camping.
BHVR has stuck their collective head in the sand and adamantly refused to look at what game systems impose this style of play on everyone, and instead insist on telling killer mains to look at the river and think of the bunny rabbits for years' worth of patches in a row.
Meanwhile, survivors have had an incurable sense of sheer arrogance and entitlement that they shouldn't have to bring a single anti-tunnel perk to deal with tunneling or a single anti-slug perk to deal with slugging out of the literal dozen or so perks available in each category, and instead they should be given half a dozen different keywords as part of a base-kit mechanic in addition to having key game systems warped to fit their precious handbook.
As it turns out, the real Skull Merchant rework was to give all of her buffs to the survivors instead.
Anyone who downvotes this simply can't handle the truth of the matter.
I think I understand your position, and if I do then I disagree. I don’t believe tunneling and slugging were only byproducts of gen speed/pressure. Tunneling was still very common even during CoB meta when killers had no real need to worry about gens. Hook timers being increased was only a recent change, and gen times were made longer way before the hook timers for longer, but tunneling still persisted. In the first iteration of 2v8, when chests weren’t there for items, no unbreakable, no sabo: no reason at all to slug, literally a stomp on the ground and survivors would get instantly hooked: killers still slugged. Slugged in mass even, with all 8 on the ground. Slugging happened often enough that the devs had to add counters to slugging in the second version of 2v8. Just because it doesn’t need to happen doesn’t mean it won’t. I want to believe you, but the history of the game actively proves against this idea that if things are made easier in other aspects that people won’t tunnel or slug anymore. It’s been proven not to be the case. It’s also why no collision on recently unhooked survivors is a great idea. Because even if they do not need to bodyblock, some still will and that’s problematic. It’s not always forced actions, many times it’s players choices and that goes for both roles.
I also don’t really understand when you seem to imply that killers are forced into tunneling, yet also say survivors are entitled if they don’t run anti-tunnel perks. If survivors are expected to adapt with perks, why aren’t killers expected to adapt to these changes? My issue with this stance of these issues “forcing” people to play one way is that it seems like the idea is: forcing survivors to bring anti-tunnel or anti-slug perks is fine. But forcing killers not to tunnel is unreasonable.
I just don’t see why one is alright, but not the other. Perhaps you could clarify your opinion on this, and if I am not understanding your position then feel free to correct me so that I can be on the same page.
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995785#Comment_3995785
except your fun is not the Killer's job. you're responsible for your own fun. there are anti-tunnel/slug perks, use them, otherwise if you refuse and get tunneled or slugged thats your own fault. Also the killer cant tunnel or slug you if you never go down
Is this not one of the main criticisms of implementing some kind of system like this? The frustration of killers with this new system, “being forced to play one certain way”. But in order to counter things like tunneling and slugging, powerful tools that are not balanced at all like perks, you are forced into playing a certain way, because you have to bring those counters.
And to be honest, every time posts were made about the criticism of tunneling or slugging the answer was always to: don’t like it, bring perks. But now, with tunneling no longer being as efficient and has downsides, the answer is not: don’t like it, don’t tunnel. Which seems inconsistent. As then the position seems to be: survivors being forced to run anti-tunnel perks to counter tunneling is fine. But killers being forced to change their play style with tunneling is unreasonable?
Also telling people that they won’t get tunneled if they won’t go down is like telling killers they won’t lose the match if they kill all survivors before a single gen pops. It’s not reasonable. Not to mention that it is possible that you can go the entire game without going down and still lose, because if the killer closes hatch and starts EGC, you can die without being hit one time.
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I’m super excited as well! People typically complain about “bandaid” fixes in this game and now we’re getting something that is actually meta-breaking. I mean I’d say it’s directly tackling some of the most criticized aspects of this game since it launched. People have been asking/dreading this for years. Exciting stuff!
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993229#Comment_3993229
Reading comprehension at its finest.
Kill rates are where they are because most survivors are garbage at the game and aren't really trying to win. They come in with meme builds and dance around. Instead of doing gens, they're running after the killer trying to get material for a highlight reel or something. They don't predrop and shift w, like you should against 90% of the killer cast. They get greedy on gens instead of pre-running and shift w'ing into the next zip code with SB and Vigil. Instead, they want to be the next Henz getting a 5 gen chase by greeding the same pallet four times before getting the stun. And even when they do, half the time they start bagging and clicking their flashlight so they can try to CJ tech you or something. Or they'll bring a full healing build so they can watch the healing bar fill up in 6 seconds instead of 16, something that's genuinely only useful in the vast minority of heals.
You don't see killers doing that, do you? I bet almost every match you play, the killer is using the same meta perks over and over. They use the optimal strategies and are consistently trying to win every match that they play.
However, when all four survivors bring meta perks and play safely in chase and actually try to win, they usually do. The gens finish in about 4 or 5 minutes, and you get 3 or 4 survivors out. Even when the big bad killer tries to tunnel them. Because they brought meta perks like DS and OTR.
I’m sorry, but I’m a little confused what you’re trying to say here.
From what I’m reading, your argument seems to be, killers always try hard, survivors usually don’t, and that’s why kill rates look the way they do. But that doesn’t really make sense to me.
Aside from the fact that this is purely just an opinion that has not/cannot be proven, you imply killers typically run meta perks while survivors only sometimes do, but that’s exactly what statistics measure: the average over time, sweaty or casual. You can’t just throw out all the non-meta survivor matches as if they don’t count, while keeping all killer matches as valid. That’s not a fair or consistent standard. Not all killer matches are sweaty, and not all survivor matches are casual. Which means that the data we have comes from games with the sweatiest of survivors, the sweatiest of killers, the most casual survivors and the most casual of killers, and those stats still show killer in the power role.
So when the actual numbers show kill rates higher than escape rates, as intended by the devs, the conclusion is that “killers are good players that always try but just aren’t strong enough and survivors are strong players that are either really bad or aren’t trying” Is that not denying data in favor of opinion?
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Yeah. I get what you mean. People are just straight up insulting others now. It’s getting so… personal? “You don’t agree with me so you’re [insert insult here].” I used to be more frequent on here and have lots of discussions with several people but lately… especially after the anti-tunnel/slug update, it’s just a constant stream of anger, dismissal, and personal insults. Maybe you’re right OP, in recommending some time away from the forums. It feels like a bitter frenzy right now.
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I feel the same. I haven’t played since they nerfed fog vials, it was kind of the straw that broke the camels back for me. But then I read the new update and I felt cautiously optimistic. I talked to my friends about it right away (who have quit DBD years ago) and they also were intrigued to come back.
I feel like it’s going to push the game in such a positive way for both roles. Excited to see what it ends up looking like live after testing.
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@Nazzzak said:
Yeah, i dont think it'll be as bad as people think. The devs still want a 60% average killrate (and let's be honest, most regular players have higher than this - new players who try a killer once or twice then give up likely bring the overall average down) and that wont change. This will give them the opportunity to better address individual killers and adjust as needed. Some people claim they "need" to tunnel, well, if that's universally true then the devs will see the falling kill rates and your killer of choice will get buffed. That's a win.
This! I feel that part of the reason this update is going to be so great for the game as a whole and both roles is because of this. A killer should not be forced to play one specific way to be viable. If they are forced to rely on it in order to maintain their killrates, then it’s holding them back from getting actual benefits and buffs that they need. It’s a win for everyone.
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The reason tunneling is so prevalent is because it’s easy. Why is it easy? Because the effort you put in compared to the reward you receive isn’t balanced, the reward exceeded the effort. These changes have helped to adjust that balance of effort vs reward. Yes, going for new fresh hooks is harder, but that’s the point. Because going for an unhooked injured survivor was too easy, which is why it was a problem. But because going for new hooks is harder, rewards are now in play for the extra effort, which is great.
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I am sure that if these changes negatively impact killrates, adjustments will be made. Which in my opinion is far healthier and ideal. Killers shouldn’t be forced to play only one way (like tunneling) to stay viable. If they are so reliant upon it, then they need base kit changes and buffs individually to allow for more variety of play. The killrates have been very healthy for quite a long time now, and if some struggle to meet that 60%, then it’s great that they can receive meaningful and impactful individual updates to maintain that killrate, rather than being store farmed to only use 1 tactic to do so. If the killrates aren’t affected after this change, then they were maintaining good killrates even without tunneling, which should be the ideal as it’s better for all players and both roles. Make killers strong and viable without having to rely on tunneling.
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I really appreciate you guys working to tackle such complex and challenging issues like these. Honestly I haven’t touched the game since the nerfing of fog vials because I was just feeling so disillusioned and reading these updates made me excited to play again. I love that buffs and rewards were given to killers to encourage not tunneling/slugging, along with the consequences of doing so.
I get that a lot of people are probably upset right now, but I believe it’s because the game has always been a certain way and that these updates are changing things that have been around for a very, very long time. Though the one honest, so has the criticisms about these issues too. It’s not as if these changes haven’t been asked about for years.
Excited to see the changes get tested and adjusted, and how these changes will impact the game not only for survivors but for killers as well, as no longer having tunneling as a reliable way to get kills could shine a light on killers that struggle more without relying on it, and could lead to them receive more base-kit changes and buffs. Thank you for tackling this!
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989033#Comment_3989033
Did you see my post where I rated the maps on balance?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/454418/map-balance-tier-list-time
I have played like well over 500 matches since the anniversary event, and I can definitely say that maps has a huge impact for certain killers, and survivors alike.Wow, what a great post. Thanks for taking the time to write all this out along with reasonings for what’s too strong/not strong enough etc. I hope the post gets a devs attention!
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988839#Comment_3988839
That is actually a brilliant idea. Dynamic map sizing, and tile generation based on relative killer mobility
Thanks, yeah I feel personally that all killers are viable (except current SM bless her) but its the RNG that can really make or break many killers (and some survivor perks). But we have like…22 maps? I feel there's enough variety that it wouldn't hurt the enjoyment of the game overall. Let maps do the scaling instead of the killers, and also certain maps can automatically put killers at a disadvantage, which also shouldn't be the case. Maps with open fields shouldn't ever be forced on Myers or a Ghostface. Maps with awful spawn points shouldn't be forced on Onryo or Pig. Maps with good locker placements should be prioritized for Huntress and Dredge. Etc. I could go on but frankly while Killers and Survivors both have access to some bonkers stuff, MAPS are the most unbalanced part of the game lol. They can aritifically boost you to an advantage or a disadvantage without any input from the individual player regardless of the role and I feel that's kind of crazy lol.
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I really wish maps would scale to certain killers. I feel smaller maps for m1s and larger maps for m2s would solve a lot of problems and frustrations in the game.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988701#Comment_3988701
he got grabbed by the ghoulies
omg I remember that game! It’s been a LONG time. I forgot it existed! Thanks for the blast from the past lol.
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I’ve voiced similar frustrations. I’m sure that they have seen all of the concerns and have gotten enough data by now to make some adjustments.
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This has been my number 1 ask since killers got the ability to practice against survivor bots like 2 years ago. It’s such an incredible resource and tool and it close to devastates me how it’s not available for everyone. Here’s hoping!
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3982673#Comment_3982673
Got evil incarnate in my second game with the michael. It's pretty easy to get when you just start with the character you are unlikely to face good survivors immediatelly.
Huntress achiement is very easy to farm just requires to throw few games for that. Most survivors unlike killers actually help you get achiements.
If jump scared is springtrap achiement that is also incredibly easy to farm got in 2 games.
The thing is with those achiement you can try to get them every game but with map achiements you might only have one chance in 100 games. If you are player who wants to keep their achiement progress at 100% this is very frustating.
I can attest to this as well that most survivors will help get achievements. I do it constantly to complete tomes. I will just match in, show I'm friendly, hit at a hook and they will literally line up and let me hook all of them. Or I hit a gen, they work on it, and then let me kick it to oblivion or let me get grabs etc. Wish there was some kind of a way for survivors to ask for help with an achievement too.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3984868#Comment_3984868
I didn’t want to make people feeling wrong about loses. I’m playing solo and my escape rate even that high tbh.
But I honestly tired from people to constantly complaining to overall role. Because I really don’t understand. I started to play this game as survivor. Now despite switching to killer as well and being 50/50 player every time I feel anxious or bad I purposefully switch to survivors. This is my personal comfort zone. I… I can’t find anything bad about this role except extremely toxic killers who write ez after playing nurse against solo or when my team just played bad. And because this solo without proper info with weird MMR my teams in solo Q indeed losing a lot. Over and over I see mistakes done from my teammates, and because it’s potential of 4 mistakes it hits different than one mistake on killer, but everyone blame killer OR claiming being survivor isn’t fun and good in endgame chat. I still trying to find why.
Sometimes I feel I am playing completely different game. How being survivor I know I can avoid tunnelling, at the same time playing mid? Yesterday I was hardtunneled one time in like 14 games. How somehow I barely meeting toxic killers when everyone point they meeting 5th ghoul on a day? Why I can just equip ds/otr with reassurance and don’t bother myself with this tunneling/camping issue every game? Why I can do gens easily and don’t find gen regress harsh until it’s not A/S tier killer?
And when I’m playing as killer with constant meeting of good teams my smallest attempt of pointing on some abuse in perk on this forum is meeting harsh critic. Like extreme harsh, even when I don’t tell “nerf to the ground”, but just wish for some compromises. People here likes to forbid me to talk about negative feeling from one role, yet as soon as I finally show something positive about other I just see mad reaction. Why?
Ok on killer I slug and tunnel. But on survivor I genrush or run heal meta as well. I even play in sfw sometimes. Games are balanced around it, not random solo with MMR missmatch that unfortunately happens a lot. My point on this forum is literally praying for that one day we’ll receive info base kit for solos that we’ll make them close to SFW, better MMR, less RGN, and when killers won’t suffer from poor game design or feeling like they playing against system, and not skill on players. I wish both good for both roles, and I don’t want to be seem extremely toxic.
I’m playing “unfair” right now on both roles and take my personal max. Because game allows it and can’t forbid me to play efficiently, even when someone finding it unfair. I can’t force others so, that’s why I don’t blame my solo teammates in endgame chat. Or overall role. I don’t even blame people who are toxic against me after match.
If I want to win, I play with duo and suddenly I am over 60-70% of pub matches against killers. On killer at the same time I’m avoiding broken killers with less skill involve, yet I’m fully commuting to dedicated choice. And I actually see results from it. This game can encourage you on both roles.
Am I playing completely different game, because it bring joy for me from both roles? Is it my fault I genuinely don’t feel we have gen rush or tunneling issue that spoils experience, but that’s people who project negate impact they took from social media? And that game shouldn't be balanced around weak tier killers or solo Q survivors?
First off, I don't want to invalidate your feelings. How you feel is completely valid and fine, and we don't have to agree on anything in the game for me to acknowledge that your feelings matter. So even though I might disagree with certain views you have on the game, please know that I am in no way trying to make you feel guilty for feeling the way you do.
I understand that you personally feel tired of hearing how people aren't enjoying survivor, but to be honest that is what the forums are for. It's a place for people to discuss the game; the good, the bad, and the ugly. It doesn't help either that it seems that many changes for the game don't happen unless enough people are upset about it. (like the live stream with chandler riggs or the most recent streetwise bug) changes didn't happen until enough people spoke up about it. If you personally are sick of hearing how people don't like survivor, that's fine, you're valid to feel that way, but the solution isn't ever going to be that those people shouldn't speak up. Just like you should always be allowed to speak up, so should they.Your experiences matter, absolutely, and so do other people's. We can't just ignore any of the criticism and only focus on what's good or things will never improve.
When it comes to your comments about tunneling and things, that's kind of a whole can of worms. Without getting into a very long winded discussion about why I disagree with them being available in the way they currently are balanced as tools compared to the way other tools are balanced, at the end of the day you are free to play however you want to play but others are also free to not like it.
You talked a little bit about your frustration with playing to win and how other people can get upset with that, and as I said earlier, you can play however you want to. But people will react to however you play. I can let the door close on someone, or refuse to put my cart away. Neither of those things are illegal to do, they aren't "against the rules" so to speak, but many people would probably have an opinion about it because I have the choice not to do those things, but I chose to do them anyway. You openly admit that you tunnel and slug, which you are free to do, but you also are aware of how people feel about doing those things. You don't have to care, of course, but other people are allowed to feel frustration that you don't care.
You're not playing a different game then the rest of the people on the forums, but we all do have different experiences. We have to be careful about the general mentality of, "if I don't see it then it doesn't happen." Just because I haven't personally had to deal with, say, a Demogorgon slapping me on the hook, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It doesn't mean someone else hasn't had that experience. We're all playing the same game, but we may not all have the same experience. You don't need to feel bad that you don't care about some of the things other people care about, and people shouldn't make you feel bad for it. In the same way that you shouldn't make other people feel bad that they do care about what you don't.
All in all, you are 100% valid in your feelings. Your frustration, confusion, annoyance, concerns, everything. So is eveyrone else here. We all care about the game, and our own time, and we all have opinions on how those 2 things could be better. I'm glad to hear that you are enjoying the game though. That's great! I hope you continue to enjoy yourself, truly. There is nothing wrong with you enjoying the game. :) -
It's a bit rough right now I feel. Especially lately, like back to back. Ghoul, Clown, Fog vials. Though there are plenty that feel survivor is in a great spot. Just personal preferences I guess. I would love some more stats released though, to paint a better picture without relying on just limited personal games/experiences.
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One of my favorite interactions I've ever had was with a fellow teammate in solo q. It was a Jake wearing the wrapped shirt/pants, and had the long hair with beard, and his username was J. Christ. His entire build was all about altruism, and at the end game, exit gate powered, it was just me and Jesus, I got put on hook. He went back for me. Unhooked me and the Oni actually went after him instead so I made it out. He was sacrificed. And it was just all around a great time. 10/10 would team up with Jesus again.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3984350#Comment_3984350
People downvoting simply because I had ok games in solo are something. Do they really wish to see only bad about role they playing?
Try not to take it personally. I'm sorry you're getting downvotes for simply sharing your opinion. I don't think it's a matter of people wanting to see only bad things, but more so perhaps when you phrased it as, "its still fun and good." It could have come across as saying that the way they felt in their games was wrong, because your experience is different, like using your experience to invalidate theirs. I don't think that's what you were trying to do, but I think it's just the way sometimes tone can be difficult to convey through text.
In any case, it's good that you are enjoying both roles of the game. It will be great if we could get to a point where everyone enjoys both roles a little bit more. Fingers crossed!
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It's just personal preferences. Some people want X and Y in the game, other's don't, but they want Z. That's just humans being humans eveyrone has different tastes. I don't really see how having preferences or opinions make anyone a crybaby though, you might have to explain that one to me.
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I understand what you mean in theory but I think in practice this could be really detrimental. As others have stated there are plenty of perks that involve going into a locker to activate and there would definitely be people who use it as an opportunity/excuse to try and "rat" you out. There are even situations when you get into a locker to deny a killer perk like BBQ or maybe even one where you and you only know it's in play (like Rancor). Not everyone will assume the worst but people bringing the killer to someone else intentionally has happened enough to get it's own term (sandbagging) so the history of the game goes against the idea of people not using that information against someone else.
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3980402#Comment_3980402
it’s not that he doesn’t agree with the grace period. It’s that he only agrees for a grace period for killer powers. If it’s anything that remotely helps survivor he’s going to be against it and he contradicted himself about 600 times already on this forum. You are a really good dude and I just highly suggest that you stop communicating with him whatsoever because it’s never going to go anywhere. He fundamentally wants killers to have everything and survivors to have nothing.
Yes, when I explicitly asked them to give a suggestion for common ground so that it could end amicably as they had rejected my attempts, and Instead not only flat out refused to give common ground only use it as an opportunity to almost insult me by making it seem like I am in favor of something blatantly unbalanced, I realized they don’t actually want to find common ground at all. My last message to them I stated this and said I won’t be further responding to them. I do try not to assume bias of people or bad faith but the last conversation I had with this individual, in addition to this one, I think has confirmed exactly what you said.
Thanks for reaching out though, and advising me not to get lost in what appeared to be an endless back and forth. Cheers!
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3980402#Comment_3980402
There's zero common ground. According to your logic, if a killer is released, and has a 90% kill rate, there should still be a mandatory grace period before the killer is nerfed. And therefore, the survivors should be forced to deal with a 90% kill rate killer, for the duration of the mandatory grace period.
If you truly believe my stance is “leave a 90% kill rate untouched” then I haven’t been able to explain my point in a way that you can understand, and I’m sorry for that. I genuinely don’t know how to make it clearer.
I’ve made multiple attempts to offer common ground, and even asked you directly to provide your own when mine were rejected. You declined, and instead it feels like you chose to intentionally reframe my position into something unreasonable so you could dismiss it, which makes a genuine exchange impossible.
If there’s no willingness or even a desire to find common ground, then this is no longer a discussion, just an argument, and I don’t want to argue for the sake of arguing. I’ll be stepping away and won’t respond any further. I’m sorry we couldn’t understand each other here. Maybe next time. Gliyn.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3980153#Comment_3980153
There are two types of changes for new content:
Category 1: Changes that BHVR already knows they want to make
Category 2: Changes that BHVR wants to "wait and see" before deciding if they should happen
Category 1 changes should be made ASAP. Category 2 changes can have a grace period. It is appropriate to SOMETIMES have a grace period, but it is never appropriate to have a mandatory grace period.
It seems like we’re at a fundamental impasse here. You don’t believe grace periods should be a standard practice, and I do, so there’s not much value in continuing if we can’t even agree on that baseline. I’ve made a few attempts at finding a common ground but it doesn’t appear there is one here. Unless you’d like to offer one? Or perhaps we really should just end this here?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3980031#Comment_3980031
That is not a reasonable argument. There should never be a mandatory grace period for new content.
Alright, so you’re saying outright that you don’t think there should ever be a grace period for new content.
If that’s your position, then all the back-and-forth about Ghoul timelines doesn’t seem actually relevant to your stance as you simply disagree with the idea of giving content time on live before changes, and that would include the changes that to Ghoul. Fair enough. As there doesn’t seem to be any kind of common ground between us, perhaps it’s best to end this here?