danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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@FrostyEyesSusie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117928#Comment_3117928
It still leaves us out to dry in the wind as far as grinding goes and people are understandably unhappy about this state of affairs.
Right. But what does that have to do with bp incentives being a "band-aid fix" and bad design? That's something I don't think the OP has an explanation for.
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@Roaroftime said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117920#Comment_3117920
All pigs I play against just tunnel the first person with a trap on their head so they can't get it off and so can't leave when the exit gates open meaning they're guaranteed a kill so that's easy. Ghost face just camp and tunnel like every other ghost face. Easy.
Fair enough. Pig can cheese out 1 kill off 1 down because of how her power works. But I'm moving the goal post to 2 kills. Now what? Is Pig gonna be able to do that to multiple survivors? I think not. And I don't think Ghost Face's camp or tunnel game is very good at all. I mean, compare his to Leatherface or Nurse's. And you're still proving my point. Play those low tiers without tunneling. It's funny that you just jumped to them camping and tunneling, which supposedly you don't have to do to win with those killers, is what I'm hearing.
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@CyberRoninX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3114208#Comment_3114208
This is not the case at all. Played all day today and only had 2 matches where survivors gave up. Killer mains are the biggest crybabies I've ever seen and are just afraid that the devs will see how killer sided this game is for soloq. Survivors were never the power role in soloq and the game was pretty balance for solo before this update. If you couldn't get kills before then you just sucked as killer plain and simple.
It' so easy to say that after a buff. "You should have been getting kills before." No, we shouldn't have. The same way we get kills now is the same way we got them before: survivors giving up, playing bad, not punishing camping, not punishing tunneling, being greedy at loops, and somehow being unable to do gens or push through/deal with the killer's slowdown. Every time someone has tried to "prove" that killer is OP has had 1 or all of these things going for them, or they just play Nurse. And they never factor any of that into their "justification."
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3116446#Comment_3116446
Cool. In other words, your skill level is too low to get good solos as killer. I'm not going to take your opinion seriously now.
Most people don't know what good solos are. They equate solo with uncoordinated players, while skirting around calling them bad, while also ignoring the plethora of solo teams out there that feel SWF level in terms of gen rush.
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@FrostyEyesSusie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3116400#Comment_3116400
What's bad is giving incentives ostensibly as compensation for the removal of BP perks and then removing said incentives AND the BP perks.
Just don't remove them then. Nobody's saying the devs' removal of the bp incentive after introducing it was a good idea.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3116428#Comment_3116428
"We don't want to lose games we should have won", now how the hell you gunna know if you "should" have won a match if you just stood next to the first person you hooked? Are you not "winning games you should have" because all your auto-regress gen things aren't up anymore because that's not you winning the match, that's your perks.
Boohoo, your combo perks got "destroyed" back in 2017 killers were actually good and weren't running 4 slow downs and had a lot more op survivor things to verse and they did just fine 3/4King.
I could poke a million holes in all the points you've raised, but I think I'll just see myself out of this scripted conversation.
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@Roaroftime said:
But that just can't be true because the update "wAs sO PeOPle tRy DiFfErEnT pErKs" (and not just use Pain Res + DMS) and yeah completely agree but it's a killer sided game now and a killer forum so no one will listen to survivors and they won't balance the game :(
...Right. Please play Pig or Ghost Face against good survivors and try to get A kill.
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Hatch is a free escape.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3116390#Comment_3116390
why do killers constantly need to be incentivized to leave the hook and play a decent game?
BBQ incentivized leaving the hook
POP incentivized leaving the hook
Thana incentivized injuring more people
etc etc, it's so funny to me that killers needs little treats and rewards to play a normal, fun match, and when they aren't getting those they just think standing still in front of the first person they find and tunneling them relentlessly is all they have left, I'm so bored of "I'm not incentivized to do this" as an excuse.
Because we don't want to lose games we should have won just because, "It's more fun/fair that way." We're going to play to win, and since every strong killer perk that allowed you to go for multiple chases was taken away, we're going back to the basics. Tell me I'm not crazy: every time there was a killer, perk, or build that made gens last longer or made chases shorter got nerfed.
There seems to be this huge misconception in the community that because killers have gotten buffs, they're getting stronger each time. In reality, it's not even a trade-off. For every killer buff, there's been 3 nerfs. Think of the gen defence perks alone that have been nerfed: Ruin/Undying, Pop, Discordance, Pain Resonance/Dead Man's Switch, Overcharge, Surveillance, Thanatophobia, Corrupt, Tinkerer, Dying Light, and Gearhead. And y'all still wonder why killers never bother to pressure the gens.
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Only DBD's community can twist a point incentive into something bad. I guess all the other games with similar incentives are bad as well?
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@Beatricks said:
Unfortunately, this is the end result of buffing one side to be stronger than the other. Killer MMR is going up and survivor MMR is going down, leading to matches where you need to be significantly stronger than the opposing side to win, since the odds are stacked in their favor. The only thing you can do is find a SWF.
It always has been and always will be that you need to play much better than the survivors to win as killer, not the other way around. Survivors can beat really good killers off of gen speed alone. This is not specific to SWF.
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I guess you're just a really good survivor all of a sudden. Not simply dodging all the tunneling killers because of MMR messing up.
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They just nerfed the only perk that incentivized injuring multiple people, so it's tunneling they want, not gen defence.
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The devs removed sabotaging traps with toolboxes because they didn't want items having extra benefits against certain killers. Yet here we still are.
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Deathslinger and Trickster. Their perks are more worth than they are.
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@Lyonic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3115895#Comment_3115895
quitting a game is never a viable solution im sorry. I feel like im taking crazy pills.
I've been there many times.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108716#Comment_3108716
what did Hoarder do for Pinhead?
It let him see where the box was picked up, since it counted as an item. That gave him a greater chance to interrupt the box solving and keep the chain hunt going. But what people don't understand is that Hoarder was only like 1/3 of the build. You could either do the version with Franklin's Demise and Larry's Remains but no Engineer's Fang, the version with Engineer's Fang and Larry's Remains where you cut out Franklin's.
Having Franklin's with Engineer's Fang was redundant, because if you had Engineer's Fang, they'd always be injured when you finally hit them and downed them. Downing them normally, without Franklin's, automatically let Pinhead pick up the box and start a new chain hunt. If you downed someone with Franklin's, they dropped the box and you had to manually pick up the box and use it. That's wasted time. The only time you'd run the Franklin's/no Engineer's Fang version was if you didn't want to have to down people to keep the chain hunt going, and maybe that would help spread the damage. Sometimes that was more beneficial, because survivors can run Pinhead a long time, even while being affected by chains while carrying the box. Remember, you HAD to get that box from that survivor somehow, because them simply holding the box disabled everyone else's chain hunt, which meant you had zero slowdown.
And then for Larry's Remains, it just gave you a more generous window to interrupt the box solver with your possessed chain, because it extended the time it took to solve the box.
It's all of those things working together that stopped the box MAYBE. If someone got in a lucky spot where you couldn't hit them with your possessed chain, or you simply missed your possessed chain, game over. Everything hinges on keeping the chain hunt going, so once you lost that you pretty much lost the whole game. It was a build that pushed Pinhead to a top 3 or top 4 killer, almost making him viable like Nurse or Blight. But what happened was, at the same time the BS Wraith and Deathslinger nerfs happened, Pinhead got a BS nerf. Any add-ons that sped up the chain hunt recharge, any add-ons that increased the time to solve the box, as well as Engineer's Fang, all got nerfed. That absolutely destroyed the chain hunt build and Pinhead in general. It's sad, because that was one of the most fun, unique, and skill intensive killer builds we've ever seen.
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@turfking said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105802#Comment_3105802
I am one of the most TEAMMATE 1st players imo and I only recently started running WGLF in every build because to me, it was like giving me an Escape Cake every game and even if I died, I would get decent BP. As selfless as I can be, unless you've proven to be a selfish tool like being close to me but not unhooking me, I still became more brazen and risky than before WGLF. Now I am back to being a very good and dependable teammate but I certainly am not as risky as I was. Gens taking longer also is a detriment to being rescued because if you leave that Gen that's 80% done for a save, the likelihood of it still being around 80 when you get back to it is slim, especially with Perks like JOLT in play.
That's your decision to not be as risky. That's the killer's decision to bring Jolt. Why they would bring such a mediocre perk, I have no clue. Still nothing to do with WGLF losing bp.
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What's next? "Oppression OP"?
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108716#Comment_3108716
Because it don’t be certain perks with certain killers. As killer you will use always some perks in some killers
Not always. You can always mix it up depending on how you personally play. Some people always run STBFL on Pig and Trapper. I don't, because I prefer Sloppy. Maybe BBQ + Floods Of Rage is information overkill, so you want to switch one out for another slowdown perk. Meta perks are generally different from killer to killer.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108697#Comment_3108697
Pretty sure if it was blocked in the first place Jolt doesnt do anything.
It was, originally, not supposed to apply the 7% regression (or whatever it is) if the gens were blocked, but it would apply the "regressing" status to the gen so that as soon as it came unblocked, it would start regressing automatically like with Ruin. I've seen no reason why it shouldn't still work like that.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108684#Comment_3108684
With Blight / Nurse it’s not that hard. For the rest, they are trash killers are ignored by the devs anyways.
Which begs the question, why do people keep wanting to balance around Nurse and Blight? "X perk is too strong!" Why? "Because it's oppressive on Nurse!" We saw this with Spirit and Freddy as well. With Pinhead, you literally had people wanting to nerf Hoarder. Why can't we just be fine with certain perks having synergy with certain killers?
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Imagine DBD didn't exist, but you take the same concept of 4 survivors vs 1 killer, and the answer would resoundingly be: No! Quite the opposite! The survivors should be under pressure to play super well and coordinated, and only then do they stand a chance to escape the killer. We saw this back in the day with Slender multiplayer and other Gmod/indie games that operated under the same premise.
Now, if we make it abnormal for survivors to escape, we at least need to make them feel like they accomplished something before the match is over. For some people, that's dailies and rift challenges, for others it's getting 4 WGLF stacks (although now the extra BP is gone), and others invent their own win condition. Maybe we could go that route. But the killer should never be the one under pressure from the get-go (because of bad game balance) just to make survivors feel safe/confident (the exact opposite of how they should feel).
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
It got nerfed, 30 seconds is meh.
Just because it could activate more often doesn't mean it will, the counterplay is brain-dead easy, and I'm surprised people genuinely thought it was meta even before PR's info interruption removal
That's indicative of who we're balancing for: People who can't let go of a gen as they're seeing the cross-map, bright red killer hooking animation.
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@Bwsted said:
No, it didn't need changed because of it.
It's a very rare interaction, that at worst causes the gen to be blocked once per trial for 20 sec.
Either leave it be, or change Merciless itself, which also prevents other problematic interactions.
Once per trial per gen, when repairs get to 90%, Merciless activates for 15 sec (or whatever you want, currently default for a solo repair is 9 sec). You get the barrage of skill checks and if you miss, or leave the gen before the perk deactivates, it gets blocked. If you complete the gen, the perk deactivates, same as it does currently.
I know, too logical and complicated. Let's deal with it by changing another perk instead and resurrect a combo that was specifically targeted for nerf in the very previous patch.
Having to hit the Merciless Storm skill checks doesn't stop the gen from progressing, right? It keeps progressing as you're hitting them? If so, I'm not sure why people are saying even this rare interaction is too crazy.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107635#Comment_3107635
Yes but it doesn’t really matter, if you can get quick down you can proc it again anyways.
Oh yeah, SIMPLY get a quick down.
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...Really?
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@AvengerBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107255#Comment_3107255
you were saying he won because he played Nuser, but in reality, Nurse is the worst choice for him, and he still won. Therefore, your Nurse claim is null
It isn't. It's not that hard to play Nurse if you're not on console. He's clearly not brand I'm saying that it's a terrible example to show "how OP this killer strategy is" when he's playing Nurse. Maybe he didn't just play Nurse, because I watched 5 games, but I saw 1 Trapper and 4 Nurses. And I didn't see good survivors either. So he hasn't proven anything. You keep dismissing that he's playing Nurse because he's newer, but whatever happened to "killer is OP at the beginner level, so we should take beginners into account too"? It's still not the face camping alone that's causing him to won. And besides, is he really a beginner Nurse if he's going through this much effort to prove a point on the forums, similar to how those of us with lots of experience would do?
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@AvengerBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105677#Comment_3105677
nurse is the hardest killer in the game especially for beginners, and she has the lowest kill rates for a reason, so yeah, he's playing NURSE and he still 4k
But how does that prove how Ghost Face or Pig can get an automatic win by face camping? Because he's saying that you can win, with any killer, by doing this. We can't just look at kill rates of Blight and Nurse, especially against noob survivors and say, "Wow, killer's OP." But that's exactly what people have been doing.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106383#Comment_3106383
You've missed my point. I don't want to have to camp and tunnel to win. I literally felt ill when I tried to play for fun and intentionally not camp/tunnel because I've been conditioned so long to do it, and I felt I gave up a match I could have won. I'm tired of killers being pressured into playing in a way that causes them to lose.
Forum killers dug that hole for themselves. You wanna keep tunnelling and camping in? Then those are the baseline. You can't win without them? Well, we can't fix that, because we can't balance for 12-hooking if killers just get the option to camp and especially tunnel, since those are more effective strategies.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
You're not really saying why stuff that helps going for hooks makes tunneling and camping "worse". Those would stay about the same, no? But you didn't get Pop, Pain Resonance, Ruin, or Dead Man's Switch value if you were camping or tunneling; there's no time to pressure gens AND tunnel/camp. So how would buffing Dying Light or Grim Embrace make tunneling worse?
The only one that doesn't get value from camping is Pop, the others all work and will aid when camping. DMS can be argued to not work if none of the survivors ever let go of a gen, ever, but hey, since survivors have no baseline way to determine when a killer is camping, one of them is bound to let go of their gen to try and go for the unhook, thus losing time and locking the gen.
I feel that survivors don't appreciate their buffs, compared to when killers get theirs, because killers have traditionally sucked and survivors were the power role.
Survivors were never the power role. That parroted line has no basis in reality. I know everyone likes to trot out 'oh, but tournament play!', while disregarding that 95% of the playerbase doesn't play on that level. Back when I first saw this story being spread around, the kill rate at red ranks was 68%.
I also like that you say 'survivors don't appreciate their buffs, compared to killers', and then you subsequently describe half a dozen stacking baseline killer buffs as
a few qol buffs, a few minor perk buffs
This in the wake of a new trend of forum killers disregarding any criticism of the new patch with 'Survivors mad because DH got nerfed'.
They got a mere 10 seconds added onto gens
Which is a minimum of 50 extra seconds of manpower, not counting the extra space for pressure given to the killer, nor is it counting the multiplicative interaction this has with slowdown perks like Thanatophobia.
And don't even start with saying that killers camp and tunnel in response to bad balance.
There've been plenty of comments and a couple of threads.
But when we're talking about killer, you've got to make them feel like they can win.
They could always win. Otz strung together a win on every killer, perkless, add-on-less, and with 30 seconds spent AFK. It's perfectly feasible. Not every match is going to be you getting outmatched by a team pulling all the stops and showing skill outstripping your own.
But this:
I don't want to have to camp and tunnel to win.
This mentality as a way to shut down criticism of camping and tunnelling is the entire problem. Because it's essentially saying that this issue's resolution is directly dependent on your individual competence.
Which means that if you play worse, you feel you deserve to tunnel and camp.
If survivors can be held to tournament standards, so can you.
Stop defending camping and tunnelling.
Play better.
I can say no right, I guess.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105783#Comment_3105783
Probably it's the compination thought if you have really bad teammates killer should win regardless has he slowdown perks or not. After the patch I have losen many games with my team at 1 gen and killee has had all the slow down perks so they do decide if you lose or not lot of times. But everyone uses them so you just have to beat all the slowdowns as well. One stragedy how I won killer who had slow down perks was when I was playing with friend who was on death hook was to tell him to dc as soon as killer downs and lifts him. Cause otherwise killer would get him to pr hook and get pop and last gen was soon to be finished. 3 of us got out in that match.
That's basically cheating.
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People's mentalities towards certain killers need to change, so they don't feel they have to give up. I don't know how to loop Nurse well, so I hide it I can. I know I can't hide against Doctor, so I spend the time before his static blast to start running. Improvise. You can always play safe and drop the pallet early. If the killer's punishing you for dropping it early by pushing around the other side, force them to take the stun before you drop it. Watch what your opponent is doing. If all else fails, look up tips, practice, play with friends, use different perks.
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Everyone. Nobody is saying the matchmaking, or the DC penalty, is priority #1, even though they should be. They're just saying "Killer OP. Let's nerf them." We just got the most productive balance patch in YEARS. Let's not ruin it because our own teammates are what's causing us to lose.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105783#Comment_3105783
Both are a problem.
Then why is it that, "gen slowdown has to be stopped, right now!" But the matchmaking? It can just be put on the back burner.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105802#Comment_3105802
The argument is that without the BP bonus survivors are more likely to prioritize gens and let their fellow survivors go hit two hook stages. I see this in my games at times; those are the games that the survivors are more likely to lose.
Kindred!
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105845#Comment_3105845
So the real problem is, "How do we allow killers to tunnel and camp without it being oppressive, while also making sure killers have a chance to win without those strategies?" My stance was, and still is, to make going for hooks over kills viable. That means not nerfing perks like Pain Res and Pop, and that means making perks like Dying Light and Grim Embrace viable.
This is the problem I have with how forum killers approach camping/tunnelling. This is a very oft repeated argument: Just make going for hooks more effective.
And then they do. And tunnelling and camping become a bigger problem, and we're still on this argument.
Killers have been completely unwilling to concede anything for game health, at all. We've had loads of survivor nerfs over time, and a ton of them were accepted. Hatch is gone? Fine, it wasn't fun. DS getting its EGC usage clipped? Fine, that wasn't fun either. Removed Endurance stacking? Yeah, that wasn't fun either. Gen speeds are getting slowed? Risky, but if it helps killers have a better time...
Yet throughout everything that has been demanded to get removed from survivors, everything survivors agreed to give up to improve killer gameplay, throughout all of it, forum killers have been utterly unwilling to budge on the issue of camping and tunnelling.
Let me ask you: Why on earth do you want to keep tunnelling and camping?
According to you, and many others who defend this stuff, it's a bad tactic that doesn't work against competent survivors. If that is the case, then nerfing those tactics would ONLY improve the new player experience, and have zero effect on the higher ranks of play where these tactics are supposedly untenable.
In reality, camping and tunnelling are used as beatsticks and empty promises. If the devs do anything we don't like, we'll camp and tunnel more. If they do stuff we want, we'll totally tunnel and camp less.
And five nerfs later, camping and tunnelling will still be in the game. And they'll continue to be in the game, no matter how much survivors get nerfed or killers get buffed. They'll continue to be problems, and forum killers will continue to defend it with more 'maybe if the game was a bit easier for kilers, we'd camp less'.
You've missed my point. I don't want to have to camp and tunnel to win. I literally felt ill when I tried to play for fun and intentionally not camp/tunnel because I've been conditioned so long to do it, and I felt I gave up a match I could have won. I'm tired of killers being pressured into playing in a way that causes them to lose.
You're not really saying why stuff that helps going for hooks makes tunneling and camping "worse". Those would stay about the same, no? But you didn't get Pop, Pain Resonance, Ruin, or Dead Man's Switch value if you were camping or tunneling; there's no time to pressure gens AND tunnel/camp. So how would buffing Dying Light or Grim Embrace make tunneling worse?
Many killers have been willing to let things go for balance, like NOED and moris and even Spirit. The rest was robbed from us: Freddy nerf, Wraith nerf, Deathslinger nerf, Pinhead nerf (#########?). Those, among other nerfs, didn't need to happen, because they weren't too strong, and now there's less killer diversity than ever.
Survivors on the other hand have fought tooth and nail to keep every last tool that they had, even when they were blatantly broken. They're always claiming that entity blocker, removing infinites, Bloodlust, removing 5-feet-apart pallets were all JUST killer buffs. Those were done "because the devs cater to baby killers". In reality those were done for, what you said, game health. And the fact that we're even arguing the removal of endgame DS, hatch, and Endurance stacking shows crazy survivor bias.
I feel that survivors don't appreciate their buffs, compared to when killers get theirs, because killers have traditionally sucked and survivors were the power role. Killers got a few qol buffs, a few minor perk buffs, and suddenly the game is "broken" and "killer favored". Survivors got their "free escape in endgame" stuff nerfed, rightfully so, but they got BT for free now. They got a mere 10 seconds added onto gens, whilst toolboxes and Prove Thyself we're left untouched, and perks like Deja Vu and Overzealous were buffed. Gens do not take "forever".
Maybe tunneling and camping can't be fixed. If you make it to where killers can't do it, then we've simply transitioned from endgame perks leading to free escapes, to someone being on hook leading to a free escape. And don't even start with saying that killers camp and tunnel in response to bad balance. They do it to win. Whereas survivors always mass DC on hook, like they're doing now, when killers get a buff. "That's too strong! Rage quit!"
At some point killers are gonna get nerfed again, and it's probably gonna be unfair. If it's a nerf to tunneling or camping, I can guarantee you the devs are gonna mess it up, and give killers nothing in return. I don't like talking about nerfs and buffs like this, the idea that there has to be a trade-off to one side when something happens to the other. But when we're talking about killer, you've got to make them feel like they can win. This is common sense on the most basic of levels. Make the 1 in the 1v4 stronger; make the killer/monster feel like a threat!
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@CryingMan said:
First I want to say, good on you for backing up your claims with your own evidence and sharing it with us, and while this isn’t high mmr and it’s someone with some knowledge going against people that probably don’t have any experience with the game I think dismissing it because of that isn’t good for the game/community. I’d say while you can’t apply this to experienced players because most survivors that have been playing the game know how to counter camping/tunneling, you can definitely use this to show what the possible new player experience is like for survivors and to an extent killers. Everyone knows that rank and role are inversely related as survivor is harder then gets easier and vice versa for killer. While I personally love this patch because it shifted the meta and actually made changes for experienced players, it definitely made it harder for newer players, specifically new survivors. A lot of the changes are good for us who’ve been playing for a long time (such as perks being unlocked after prestige, nerfs to DH, etc.), but largely it doesn’t help the new player experience. This is not to say that after the patch camping/tunneling became some new thing, as it’s been part of the game for it’s entire life. New players are equally as important to the game as people who have been playing it for years and years. They’re what expands the community and playerbase so their experience matters as much as ours. Camping and tunneling are unfortunately more prevalent and effective at lower ranks, and while you are free to play however you see fit, it’s just not a fun experience for survivors in general let alone someone who’s brand new (and there are definitely unfun things to face as killer too although those situations mostly happen at high ranks, at least in my experience). Now if someone that’s new is constantly getting tunneled/camped they probably aren’t having fun, and when a game isn’t fun why play? People are probably more likely to quit the game because of this, and while as stated before, tunneling and camping isn’t new to this patch it’s just become a little bit more effective with some of the new changes in lower ranks. And you can’t really tell a new player how to deal with something like this because they lack the knowledge to apply it properly and the only way to gain that knowledge is to play the game which is probably less likely for them because they aren’t having fun; it’s like showing someone how to run a structure, it’s good to know but actually applying it is a different story. One more example that is somewhat related, but unrelated to DBD would be frame data in fighting games. Experienced players know how to apply knowledge of frames to optimize their gameplan, but if you showed it to a new player it would be meaningless because they wouldn’t know how to apply it and it wouldn’t even someone teach how to play a character/the game itself.
tl;dr I think that while, yes, this doesn’t apply to high mmr players it could be a good way to show what the new/low mr players are experiencing and that it shouldn’t be ignored because the new player experience is equally as important to the game as ours as experienced players.
Yes, the new player experience is important. But it's not important for balancing. From the time that players learn to play the game onward, there's gonna be camping and gen rushing, and there's nothing that the other side can do about it because they don't know what to do, and even if they do they lack the experience to execute the counterplay. So this whole new spin on "face camping is getting worse" "tunneling is getting worse" is BS. It always has and always will be a thing. You just see it complained about more now because killer got a recent buff, and I'll also bet there's a new generation of survivor mains who just hit the forums. So if we're just talking about this experiment to show off how annoying face camping is for new players, it's fine. But I believe it was the OP's intention, and the intention of many people who have replied to this post, to use this as a basis for balancing. "We need to revert the killer buffs OR introduce a new game mechanic that punishes killers for camping/tunneling!" is what I'm hearing.
I'm hearing people complain about the state of the game, especially in regards to new killer builds, as if it's the most unhealthy we've had. It isn't. I think the last meta we had for killers was unhealthy (for the killers!) because it was Corrupt/Deadlock/No Way Out, which was guaranteed slowdown that survivors actually couldn't do anything against. People said the meta was Pop/Ruin or Pain Res/DMS. It wasn't (except for mid MMR), because every time I used those builds at high MMR I lost, and every time I used Corrupt/Deadlock/No Way Out I at least felt I had a chance of winning no matter the circumstances. Even back then, the way to win was tunneling and 2-hooking. Deviate from it and lose.
Gens are still too fast. Call Of Brine/Overcharge actually does nothing if the survivors simply come behind you and gen tap. The only time gens feel normal is when Thana/Pentimento is up; there's time for multiple chases! But even still, at the highest MMR or with SWF or with the right gen speed tools, survivors can still push through. That forces killers to camp and tunnel just to play it safe. So we're still dealing with the issue of killers needing to tunnel, camp, and use gen slowdown to win, which is too much for solos and people unprepared for the killer to play dirty (which he's allowed to do), and everyone points the finger at the killer like they're a bad person for trying to win.
So the real problem is, "How do we allow killers to tunnel and camp without it being oppressive, while also making sure killers have a chance to win without those strategies?" My stance was, and still is, to make going for hooks over kills viable. That means not nerfing perks like Pain Res and Pop, and that means making perks like Dying Light and Grim Embrace viable.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105781#Comment_3105781
Yeah, no. I'm sorry. If you saw these matches and though "yeah, Nurse is really too strong", I can't really take you seriously on that subject.
So you think ONLY the fact that he was face camping people is the reason he did so well? How did he get someone on the hook? Why was he able to get away with running 1 perk, or lvl 1 and lvl 2 perks, besides the fact the survivors were bad of course? I don't know if he's doing it intentionally, or if he's more sincere than I'm giving him credit for, but you don't go and pick a majority Nurse matches, not Ghost Face or Pig or Wraith or Demogorgon, and say "X is why killer overall is OP!" Y'all know better than to call this experiment legit.
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Am I missing something? How does WGLF losing a BP bonus mean that people don't rescue anymore?
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@Jasonisanicefella said:
Does anyone know when we are getting the balance fix to the dreadful patch 6.10?
Hopefully this will happen tomorrow, isn't Tuesday the day for hotfixes?
It's not a crazy terrible patch; I just don't see it that way. If anything more gets nerfed on the killer side, I at least expect a revert, not making anything weaker than it was pre-buff. On the survivor side, I'm not expecting anything to get nerfed, as we desperately need to let that meta settle and give people more time to figure stuff out. This patch didn't break the game, but whatever knee jerk reaction the devs are gonna do in response to the community backlash, that might break the game.
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@Tiufal said:
Just don't bother and get slugged for another 4 minutes while getting bmed.
You make it sound like that's happening en masse.
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@Jay_Whyask said:
If you're solo queuing I'd recommend running at least one perk that increases your solo gen repair speed.
If your teammates suck I'd recommend running perks that show hatch or increase exit opening speed.
Sole survivor was buffed this patch, it makes exit gates take 10 seconds to open!😲
This. I bring the recently buffed Deja Vu in most of my matches. The 5% gen speed increase and the 3-gen avoidance makes all the difference.
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This is where we are: Complaining about Dying Light. And nerfed Pain Res. And Jolt. And Plague. But the teammates, that you admit caused you to lose more than anything else? A mere honorable mention.
I'm tired of seeing this every post. First, it's the teammates that caused you to lose. Then, by the end of the post, it's the slowdown perks that caused you to lose. I mean, which is it?
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105677#Comment_3105677
You cannot seriously have watched the Nurse games and concluded that Nurse was a factor for the wins.
I didn't really have to. He's! Nurse! The #1 killer that survivors have complained about the most in recent months, and who has probably the only legitimate complaints levied against her. What other killers have to do to get survivors, who at least know how to run loops, is give them a head start, catch up, mindgame the window/pallet or brute force the pallet drop/entity blocker, hit them ONCE, catch up to the sprint burst, repeat the previously mentioned loop shenanigans, hit them again FINALLY and only then do they get the down. That's without body blocks, instaheals, exhaustion perks, having to brute force Bloodlust, etc. What does Nurse have to do? Blink close to them, blink closer, hit, repeat, down. The survivors can try to mindgame her, but she can mostly wait it out, or predict them as equally as they're predicting her, and that all results in a 10-second(?) longer chase. So of course Nurse is gonna be able to win more consistently by face camping, because survivors can't put anything between her and them. Unless you want to explain to me how non-Nurse M1 killers can beat good survivors just by face camping, which the OP has failed to do, I'm not buying any of this. Therefore, we don't need to nerf killers or roll back buffs because "face camp = ez win".
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101558#Comment_3101558
I'm not a beginner and facecampers get at least a free 3k after the patch.
So if I just hook someone and stand there, I'll get a free win?
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@Teslaboi said:
OP, ignore everyone telling you that you're too inexperienced, or a baby survivor main.
I posted earlier, and I say again, keep going.
The MMR system will either catch up to you sooner or later, which will result in you hitting a wall and being proven wrong...
Or, you'll keep winning and have (maybe) an insurmountable amount of data, that people could not possibly chop up to "only having 300 hours". (Which to be frank, is small compared to some veterans, but by no means a small investment. I reckon most don't have that amount invested into half of their games. I certainly do not.)
I don't know what you'll get, and I'm not hoping for any particular result, but I am deeply curios.
Those aren't the problems. He's facing bad survivors. It's clear as day. He doesn't even have the "unbeatable" Thana/Deadlock build, and he's playing NURSE!
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After the third Nurse game in a row, I was gonna give up on listening to you but gave you another shot, only to watch another Nurse game. In 5 matches of yours, because I'm not gonna watch all of them, I saw 1 Trapper match and 4 Nurse matches. And I am extremely confident in saying that your survivors were veeerrrryy low caliber. First match I see you take a while to down 1 person, yet it takes them 2 minutes in to do 2 gens when they could have done that in 1:30. And the only reason you were able to move after that was because the hooked person gave up. Even with your hard face camping, those guys got to 1 gen, and probably should have been more efficient, and then you had to slug them just to stop the last gen from being done. The rest are just Nurse matches, and I'm gonna be honest, I didn't watch much of them. Nurse is the best killer in the game, who can beat survivors perkless, especially the ones you were getting. I mean, look at your perk builds, man. I couldn't beat survivors running those builds in my wildest dreams. So all you've proven is that against bad survivors, DCers, and overall inefficient people, killer can win by face camping. Wow, what a shocker. Now just to get to high MMR with Pig or Pinhead and we'll see how much your strategy holds up.
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Stop the cheaters, make the grind less, and keep balancing around rewarding skilled play.
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/337972/i-m-officially-calling-it
giving up
(including me)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CCJYAFZCCDUL/skinner.jpg
I'm still getting thoroughly destroyed by legitimately good survivors. I don't even have a chance to get to a gen before they pop it at the beginning of the game if I search in the wrong direction and they're running Prove Thyself or have a couple of good toolboxes. If I'm playing Myers, even running four slowdown perks isn't as effective as Ruin/Undying in a lot of situations just because I have to go kick gens before I chase people off of them. If I get a 4K without someone giving up, there's usually no more than one gen left.
Luckily for me, three out of five games still have someone DCing or giving up on hook, so my kill rate is high, and I've reached iri grades for the first time.
Either practice until you can loop without DH, or wait until your MMR adjusts. I don't have any proof to back it up, but I'd bet that games where you or someone else disconnects don't actually affect your MMR, so maybe just play the game normally until it has time to adjust.
Preach.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101280#Comment_3101280
Hey man other than the thana/pentimento build, what slowdown builds are people running commonly?
I used to enjoy the busted PR/DMS combo before but since it got gutted i dont really find any of the slowdowns appealing. And with how fast people heal in my games thana just doesnt really seem worth it.
Just do what everyone says is the OP build: Run Overcharge/Call Of Brine and simply hope that they don't just come behind you and gen tap, and that they miss the skillcheck every time. I've found absolutely zero success with that perk combo, except in matches where I would have won anyway, but according to everyone else it's the most broken gen defence we've ever had.