danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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@Dustin said:
I haven't noticed it impact my games but I feel this is one of those changes where it's going to take time to really judge its affect.
I could notice it immediately. The survivors took forever to save their teammate, probably because they were on gens the whole time, yet they still got them off before hitting second stage. That's what this change helps do.
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I suppose you could always try Wraith. He'll make your other killers feel slow, but if you use his speed to body block windows and pallets then those tiles suddenly become weaker. And he's fast enough and jump scary enough to pressure gens. He usually wants to run Bamboozle though, which is a Clown perk, and Clown is decent in his own right if you mix yellow speed-up and purple slowdown at loops. And sometimes just decent perks, as opposed to gimmicky situational ones, will serve you the best. Agitation helps you hook faster, make hooks you otherwise wouldn't, and helps against body blocking/sabotage. Brutal Strength makes kicking all gens and pallets faster. Stuff like that.
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I wish. Mine know the strong loops, and they always run to them as soon as they hear or see me. But, and I know you didn't want to go here, I don't think survivors have been pushed to actually get good at the game in quite a while now. That's why they're not even bothering to loop, because they either can win without doing it, or they never learned. If you remember that patch from a year or 2 ago with like 60 reworked perks or something crazy, killer kept almost none of those buffs. And I've just been noticing again and again in my matches that killer's problem is that it's crazy slow. Bar obvious stuff like Hillbilly, Spirit, Blight, it takes forever to actually walk anywhere, which is also what you have to do to chase. I've tried to "fix" killer with Rapid Brutality, Superior Anatomy, and Unbound, and it seems to work, but then sometimes it just doesn't because survivors are so fast or have such a lead that none of that stuff makes a difference. Others have used STBFL, Coup, Machine Learning, Furtive Chase, PWYF, but they get about the same results.
While there are plenty of survivors who will always default to looping, and won't take advantage of holding W, the math of the game supports that play style as viable. And again, only a handful of super fast killers can even change that. I've even felt myself playing safer, pre-dropping, and/or holding W as survivor. All I need is my team to be somewhat efficient, and it'll be a 2+ gen chase. So it's reasonable to assume we'll see more of this in mid and high level matches.
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This perk is such dumb design and a noob trap. You can easily find chests and especially gens without using this perk, and the boon range is decent, but not big enough to reveal more than like 1 chest and 1 gen.
Why would you want to break totems or bless a new totem when you already have a boon down?
Seriously, give Alan Wake an actually decent boon, because he deserves it. It doesn't even come close to Dark Theory's power level.
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There's a reason why even at Overcharge/CoB's strongest, they had to be run together for you to get anything. 1 survivor's gen progression is 400%. PTB Overcharge, which we never got, was 400%. So even with these perks that make the gens go down "so fast!", it doesn't even break even with a survivor's progression speed. And the fact CoB turns the gen yellow can sometimes hurt, because there's other perks that also turn it yellow, which gives you conflicting info. I'll give them props for Gearhead not being that way anymore.
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Killers need to catch survivors faster. I don't know what to tell you. Without Bloodlust, the kill rate would plummet.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3789381#Comment_3789381
US consoles had to rotate our analog sticks I never want to go back to that
Because sometimes you'd do it too fast and then it would drop the input.
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It's the matchmaking. They don't know how to do it. But every time I play SWF I face the same problem as you. We win too much, and so then we keep going against tough killers. In that regard, it's working. But it usually works too well, because no matter how many times we lose after that, it's still tough killers all the way until we quit. And it's not a gradual increase in difficulty either. You get easily manageable killers, and then all of a sudden P100 Nurse.
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@Brimp said:
Cmon, "we dont have the slighted chance" meanwhile im seeing 0 outs on eyrie (sure that was a nurse), disturbed ward, ormond and garden? Idk bro seems like major skissue to me. Oh yeah a 1 out against a ghost face…. just how.
Those killers should never be getting that high of results, especially on those maps. Survivors honestly acting like Wraith and Ghost Face are just too much for them. It is a skill issue, theirs.
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@Lost_Boy said:
Solo queue sucks really badly just now. I can honestly say that I probably have 1 match out of 10 that I actually enjoy. Most of the games have at least 1-2 people DCing, even when it looks like we might win.
I feel solo queue has been neglected for so long now that the damage caused to the morale of the solo queue exclusive playerbase is damaged beyond repair. It's going to take a lot of work and time to change that rage quit mindset. It's very common in Killer games also. I would definitely say around 60% of my games people DC. Theres certain Killers that you can't even play with now because people just straight up refuse to play against.
Yeah. I've never cared much for Skull Merchant, but I couldn't learn her if I wanted to, because there's nothing to play against. You get people who instantly give up, or teams who know exactly how to counter her and it's a 5-minute match. Other people give Nurse, Doctor, and Spirit the same treatment.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790567#Comment_3790567
Guy is complaining about Solo Q, and youre some how trying to make this into an Us vs Them thing.
Stop. It was cute at first but it gets old quick
I believe I talked about both side's issues. Matchmaking will never be a one-sided problem.
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It's the matchmaking. I know it, you know it, they know it. It's not fun getting sweats every match as killer but never as teammates, even when you yourself are good and escape regularly. We've grown competitive as a community, even those who frankly don't know what they're talking about. People care about winning. So you can't just throw your hands up and make matchmaking random for the heck of it, or base its mechanics off of things that don't link to skill. If you saw a killer get 0 kills, you might assume "Wow, those survivors must be really good." when the reality is that the killer was equally good if not superior, and he just couldn't do anything because of the gen speed and map. 2 of those survivors could have gone down in chase in like 20 seconds, and the killer just didn't happen to chase them. You don't know, hence why kills and escapes by themselves don't really tell you anything, and in fact they give bad info because all you see is the result. There could be a bad killer who got destroyed all game and then got 3 kills with NOED. But you just see that he won, so he must be good and/or "overperforming," right? So the devs have a choice to address matchmaking or address balance, and they've chosen neither. The more pressing one is matchmaking, because that's where they're getting their bad balancing info from, just kills and escapes and nothing else. But they simply refuse to adjust it, which is why there's players on here every day complaining about entirely 1-sided matches back to back. I don't know what else to say.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3789925#Comment_3789925
i don't have trouble tracking. you hear the footsteps of survivors. it is just that it takes too long to come close to the survivor. by time you transform into vampire or wolf, survivor is at a loop.
Why didn't they give bats wraith's windstorm add-on. instead we have these crap traveller items with +8 range and 25% teleport speed. why not just put these tp add-on base-kit and give us 10% and 5% haste in bat form like wraith windstorm.
Also those grey add-on that reduce penalty for transform should also be base-kit…. i don't know why there are mechanics that punish for changing forms. isn't that entire point of the killer? to shapeshift? Just BVHR doing BVHR things.
Exactly. The bats have not once led to me getting a hit on someone, because they can react with how long it takes to change forms and act.
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There's no reason at all for survivors to be invisible while you're bats. You can see the map, for crying out loud. It's a "lore trumps common sense" kind of mechanic that I expect to be patched out soon.
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It's exactly as I predicted, which is that hooking is now a net negative, because the time you spend to down someone isn't worth the so-called "momentum" that you gain by hooking. Now, survivors can greed gens even harder, and whereas before they'd make it to the hook as their teammate was dying, now they can trade hook at the last second and you have to go on another chase with that survivor. You can hook trade all match long, and it's still a negative to the killer because of the time lead survivors have. Obviously, this hook buff won't help the lower level survivors, even though I'm sure that's what this was intended to do. You can have 100-second hook timers, and scared noobs won't be willing to hook trade. So keep at it: balancing the game around noobs so that survivors at top level can be that much more oppressive. 👍
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785816#Comment_3785816
Im glad that the changes have helped some console players at least. Thats who I believe they made the changes for. But for some reason people don’t want changes to happen to a killer because the Top 1% of that killers players are very oppressive because how good they can be.
I run full aura on my Huntress on PC and am very good but even then 60% of my games make it to end game or 1 Gen left. Even when I’m landing orbitals and crossmaps and firing on all cylinders.
People always discount comp play and say it’s entirely different even though it’s not at all in most regards. So that’s why I usually don’t bring it up.
I would love for them to make her movement speed 85% when holding a hatchet and see where her kill rate goes. And then see where her kill rate would be if she was 115%. I don’t think any killer should be 110% unless they have a movement speed ability honestly.
I'd really just like to standardize killer movement speed. Everyone moves 115%. And to me, that's fighting for scraps, because of how weak 115% killers are at most tiles when ran properly. Killer shack and jungle gyms are the most obvious, with survivors just waiting for you to make the first move so they can react, and waste an arbitrary 35+ seconds which might not even lead to the pallet being dropped. And this has gone on for years in the game, and will not change with just a tweak here or there to killers or their perks. My current build with Superior Anatomy, Rapid Brutality, and Unbound, still sometimes fails to catch survivors before the next go-around to the window/pallet, even while using short-ranged killers like Nemesis and Xenomorph to reach a little bit further.
Therefore, I've even started arguing that it's time for killers to be 120% base, to give them agency in chase instead of the survivors always having it. Remove Haste perks, adjust killers accordingly, do whatever, but that change could make all the difference in the world. Survivors can still, rush gens, run loops, super quick heals, base BT and anti-camp, but you know what? You'll actually feel like your choices as killer matter, and can counter those things.
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@LadyOwO said:
I usually don't complain about killers but the huntress feels really awful to go against imo. Her hatchet wind up and the speed she moves at feels quite fast to me. Not sure what everyone else's opinions on her are ( Besides her planet size hatche hitboxes..) but just want to see if anyone else has had issue with her lately.
That's such an exaggeration on her hitboxes. If they're really that big, they should be hitting walls and obstacles constantly before they get to you.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785773#Comment_3785773
A bit overturned but changes were still needed. Them being Huntress mains is irrelevant if you are implying bias, many people can set their bias aside. And honestly you should be going to a main of said character if you want to know how they feel and if any changes should happen.
37 of 53 maps are awful for her. Even worse if you aren’t using Shiny Pin which is borderline a must run against good survivors. She has the most amount of maps that are bad for her on top of being 1 of 2 killers who have to go reload at a poorly placed locker.
Look why people gave up on her, Scott Jund did, Sverkeran did and they were some of the best. And it’s because her kit and poorly designed maps. 7 hatchets is beyond fine as it helps new people more when it comes to learning her. Hatchets are not hard to dodge. Watch Coco and spooky play matches they miss a decent amount and Otzdarava misses even more than them.
I’m digressing at this point but my point still stands, the buffs were absolutely needed and anybody who plays her a lot realized this. Maybe those CCs felt it was overturned but they never said they were unneeded. The buff she needed the most didn’t even make it through.
The real problem is that against people who are bad at the game she is S Tier but against people who are good she is B Tier. Ohtofu said that best in his most recent tier list video and it’s undeniable how accurate he is about that.If she still had 5 hatchets only, I'd be finished. But because she has 7 and a few other little changes, I started playing around with her since I'm on console which is notoriously bad for killers who require good precision. I've managed to get draws or better because of it. When you're going against a PC Huntress who has constant aura reading on you, then it's a little different. But that's about as strong as she gets, and that's still not even enough since she sees almost no play in tournament. That's usually a good point I bring up. They say this killer is OP, but who's the go-to in tournaments? Nobody but Nurse, Spirit, and Blight, and only because they're on PC and can break turn limits.
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People crying about her buffs again, and clearly exaggerating her hatchet hitboxes and her power level. If her opponents are smart enough to breath, they can probably beat her. That's especially true at the higher levels matches where you can down pretty much constantly and still draw or lose. Lots of maps in the game straight-up aren't designed for her, because you can't see over, or you can but your hatchets just blow up into black smoke when you try to throw over. Or there's no lockers for miles. Don't you think that's why they gave her a bigger hatchet count?
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"But then people will be Exhausted all match!" Only if your team is giving the killer hooks all match long. Same argument for Pop. If the killer beat you with it, they probably would have beat you without it.
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A 3-man or 4-man escape. Personally, I just like to escape myself. I don't agree with this, "If I got good feelings, that's a certified win."
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Every map is like that for M1 killer.
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The reason there's no variety in survivor perks, even though there's tons of other good ones, is because the 7-8 years meta is so much stronger than everything else. And even when new stuff gets brought in and gets nerfed, it's still ridiculous. Like, Buckle Up now gives a sprint burst to the person off the ground, and doesn't cause exhaustion.
The reason there's no variety in killer perks is the opposite. They legitimately don't know what to run, because everything is so weak, so they just use the least weak thing at their disposal. They hold onto the pipe dream that gen defence will always be good. No, gen defence is not good, none of it. You're better off running chase perks, endgame perks, and Rancor. So while it might seem like the majority of what you're facing is "Ugh, more gen defence," it doesn't do anything vs good survivors.
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I just roll my eyes when people say killers are just copies or fusions of others. Apples and oranges. Now, I'll say Chucky is a weaker Wesker, Nemesis is a weaker Xenomorph, etc. But I'm not gonna act like "OMG these devs are so unoriginal!" when clearly we have Wraith, Spirit, Plague, Deathslinger, Blight, Unknown, etc. They may often have uninspired designs. For example, and to your point, Alien should have never been a straight tail attack killer. There's so much they could have done with the face huggers and stuff, and that doesn't mean give survivors literal flamethrowers that disable your ability.
Not sure what makes his tail attack "boring" in action. It's a ranged attack. Dodge it, or get hit.
And totally, Ripley and especially the Silent Hill characters have something I like to call "Dead By Daylight face." They look nothing like the originals.
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It's cool. The skin was actually spoiled for me as early as August 13th, because that day a hacker was in my match, teleporting around, instaheals, teleporting me around when I picked her up, and she had that skin. I'm sure this must have happened to at least 1 other person. Alas, this report system, you know...
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The average survivor who BMs doesn't have a lot of self-awareness or critical thinking. They do the most basic "analysis" of the facts possible like, "I beat Blight. Blight is top 2 killer. That means me good player." Not taking into account godlike teammates, which killers aren't designed to handle, not taking into account that he's using brown and yellow add-ons, not taking into account that it's a survivor sided map such as... any of them, take your pick. They'll even make basic mistakes when trash talking you like, "You didn't kill anybody" when you clearly got a 1-2k. Or when you win, they mental gymnastics their loss into their win somehow. "We got destroyed, but hey, you didn't do it in less than 10 minutes, so you bad." Because they don't take into account the guaranteed time waste killer has to simply endure at badly designed loops like shack, jungle gyms, and even certain TLs, where the survivor can just stand there and react to whatever you do and get a minute+ chase in. And sometimes the whole team is capable of this. No weak link means no gameplay for you. Regardless of skill, hours played, game knowledge, you're never gonna be "good enough" as killer to where those situations can be avoided or overcome. The game itself has to change.
So forgive them. They do not see the game the way you and I do.
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@Mr_K said:
Why would an experienced killer chase the strongest survivor first?
An ego thing. In any event, the fact that it's a considered a misplay means that a killer's skill can't stack up to anything. And if the best looper is also the best on gens, it's a no-win scenario, with free pressure for the survivors either way.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
What does it matter if the killer is slugging for the 4k, you practically already lost so just tab out and do something else.
And the Killer already won. The Killer is basically just slugging for a 4K while already winning the game, just for the Ego, wasting the time of others.
I could say that about the survivors too, when they hide for hatch instead of do gens. So now what?
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I'm convinced there's a way to still find where it is before it's spawned. A survivor I played against recently was on the ground and literally crawled to where it spawned before it did. Just in the middle of nowhere in Eyrie, they knew exactly where its spawn was. And that's just an instance where I saw it spawn on them. Who knows how many times a survivor has been dead to rights, and the hatch spawns basically right on them, like they knew? We'll never know for sure because we weren't there to see it spawn, but I have a feeling hatch doesn't just "randomly spawn" like they say it does.
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@Akumakaji said:
I just had a game with Pyramid Head on the Eiry vs a SWF with fully stacked meta perks (besides one rando, who was obviously not running with them). The first chase got rewarded with 3 gens popping and during the next chase I saw them already encroaching on the gen that I just kicked. What do this players suggest to the killer to do at this point, 1 hook, only two gens done? So of course I tunneled. The survivor even got away after the second escape, but I broke chase with the obvious god-looper immediately. I played really rough, used my cages wisely and just barely scratched bye and got two kills.
In the end I chased one wounded survivor around shack, then returned to the last gen that was at 90+% and managed a lucky grab from an overconvident survivor. I then managed to down the last one with a lucky snipe through the shack walls and turned a sure loss into a full 4K. Sure enough, the survivors were salty a left some spicy slurs on my profil ^^
So I don't know, most of the time my games are like this and I feel not one bit overpowered. Sure, sometimes the game throws newbies at me you can most likely feel it and I usually meme around with those, unless they feel like BMing me at every opportunity. I can often hold my ground at this strong survivors, but I got to sweat every single game and there is a fair share of 3 and 4E, ngl.
So because they had a good start and then threw, you won anyway. But when they keep up that momentum, which there's no reason for them not to, what happens? Insta-loss. And it's like you say: Win or lose, you're gonna sweat. There's no dream scenario where you're just able to do whatever you want and never be at risk of losing, which people say is the default killer experience, unless like you said you're going against noobs. Which, how often is that? 1 in 15 matches? You're also playing with killers like Pyramid Head who can straight-up counter off-the-hook effects, and you're tunneling. So if they're getting 3-4 escapes vs that, we've clearly established it's not "Oh, my heart just wasn't in it. Next match I'll actually play for real." We're already giving it our all already, and for what? A draw or less? At some point, even masochists like us are gonna burn out of this circus show.
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This game is not killer sided AT ALL, is the funny part. Take tonight for example. Me playing Nemesis, usually argued as a mid tier killer. I've been experimenting with a Rapid Brutality/Superior Anatomy/Unbound/Rancor build, and for the past week or two I've been getting pretty consistent good results, like 3ks and 4ks, or at the very least 2ks which are forced when you're facing good survivors. But at least then every other match was a forced draw. But tonight had some of the hardest most unwinnable matches I've ever had on the game. Even when the teams weren't coordinated well at all and gave tons of free hits, I was still having to settle for draws or 1ks. When the game gave me good teams, there was not a moment in the match where I wasn't feeling helpless or pooling with sweat and rage.
Commit to good first chase, lose. Commit to bad first chase, lose. Get a good first hit and detach because they're at a strong spot, lose. Tunnel, lose. Spread damage, lose. Camp 2nd stage, lose. Go for mass slug, lose. Risk DS, lose. Play around DS, lose. Survivors have exhaustion perks, lose. They can hover around you the whole match and still rush gens. They can take their sweet time with gens and still win, because of bad tile design. Almost every window in the game at this point is designed for survivors to fast vault them, which means you have to go the long way around and waste 45+ seconds of guaranteed time to down them. And that's assuming you start the chase at the time; if survivors hold W from mid-map to those loops, tack on another 30-45 seconds to that chase time. Tiles like jungle gyms and shack are the worst designed, because even though they're what my build is literally designed to counter, turning windows from a weakness into a strength, some survivors are borderline uncatchable there, because it's dependent on 1) you being able to mindgames them, 2) they fall for it, and 3) you have to win said mindgames 3 times in a row or else the chase resets. So whether you detach or commit to the chase, you misplay because you're losing more momentum than you're gaining. And that describes the whole of killer, not just this interaction. So there's nothing impressive about getting a good result as survivor, at all.
You might wonder why I don't run gen defence. It's because good survivors don't care. Again, you can run gen defence and beat all the weak times you want. The strong survivors will just power through, and you're living a pipe dream if you think otherwise. If they lost to you with gen defence, they would have lost to you without it. To me, it ought to be that you can beat strong teams with or without gen defence. At least give the killer the chance to, because right now there's zero chance. Sure, solo queue is bad with the super screwed up matchmaking, several months in the running, forcing players into countless mismatches. But you can just solve that by SWFing together. That's most of what I was facing the last 2 days: 4-mans who are 10 steps ahead of you because even when they make the worst misplays possible, Unbreakable, Dead Hard, DS, OTR, Deliverance, Hope, Adrenaline, etc. Get rid of these perks; they're not fair to go against. They're negligible to the top tiers, and godlike vs everyone else, even when employing perfect counterplay, if such a thing exists for each perk, which some of them are absolutely uncounterable. When you're tunneling, DS is good. When you're not getting tunneled, you can stun the killer anyway. So why wouldn't you bring the perk? Stuff like that.
Again, I understand if you survivor experience is you getting stomped repeatedly. Both what you're experiencing and what I am can be true at the same time. The difference is your survivor losses are due to the devs matching you with teammates who are way below your skill level, or killers who are way above your skill level, which is way more common these days because I give the average noobie killer ~3 days before they quit the game or go full-time survivor. Killer seems so strong because the average player for that role is stronger, and the average survivor is bad. Sorry. It's not even like survivors beat killers because they're better than them. Killers who are clearly the better player lose all the time, because winning the game is about advantage rather than skill. If survivors are going down decently fast, but they're still doing gens fast, too bad for the killer. The math in relation to the race against time literally favors survivors. Even when the killer is equally skilled to the survivors, survivors win by default, because 95% of the killer cast, their add-ons, and their perks are not designed well enough to overcome that disparity in advantage. I don't know how many other ways I can say it.
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No. Anybody or their mother could come back to a game after a while and be impressed by the new content/changes. For us who've been here the whole time, we see the circus for what it is. Just unacceptable. It'd be generous to say that balance has taken a backseat; it's not even in the car. Of course at low levels you won't notice this. There's different killers everywhere, further coupled by the game having more killer than it did years ago. But in terms of viable killers, there's still 2-3 viable ones and that's it, which makes for a stale killer experience, and a stale survivor experience as a result.
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@ArkInk said:
I don't understand why they didn't just give a brief delay when you can start Slice and Dicing after a manual scamper. It could've been like a second or a second and a half and would've killed the strat whilst leaving both abilities basically untouched. After the changes half his add-ons got gutted beyond useability, and even worse, they stopped being fun.
Window Scamper being removed is still extremely annoying to me. It's whole point is that it doesn't play a vault noise like his regular vault does, implying it's meant to be used for stealth. If that's the case, why is it that it can now only be activated while Chucky/Tiff are screaming their lungs out? It just doesn't make sense. That combined with the circumstances surrounding its removal just feel like this whole aspect of his character got overlooked post rework. Scamper and Chucky's deception based tactics as a whole were disincentivised from use.
The changes, though eliminating an annoying strat, made Chucky a lot less fun and much more one note imo. He feels like he's designed to basically always be using Slice and Dice, which is a far cry from his original deception based concept. Yes, Scamper into Slice and Dice needed to go, but Chucky's unique gameplay identity didn't need to go with it.
There's no reason to play him at all. I already get bullied with the "strong" killers like Nemesis or Singularity the moment I go against opponents my own caliber. So why would why I even humor a garbage-tier killer? To kill my love for the game even more?
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783251#Comment_3783251
I'm kind of on the fence about that one, since Slice and Dice is already very good as a chase ability.
You don't want to get to a point where he never needs to break pallets because he can outplay them just by existing, that's why Scamper was changed in the first place.
But the alternative is so much worse. Now he just has to break pallet at every loop, and catch up with his power, which he won't be able to get a hit out of, making him a worse Blight. Before his Scamper change, survivors were actually stronger against him at shorter pallet loops because he was 110% trash and his pallet slide-under, while "fast" in DBD terms, was little faster than killer's vaulting speed through a window which is borderline coming to a stop. The time you spent to get to the other side of the pallet, the survivors were spending to go around the loop again. You barley gained distance.
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@theonryo123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783231#Comment_3783231
The changes to his scamper where not good really because the camera angle on his slice and dice whenever he use scamper he can only use while vaulting under pallets while using slice and dice. My point is he can’t control his camera angle because it can never connect plus survivors can easily dodge it which means it’s hard to do
Right? It's so hard to land. He's just a worse Wesker. 110% trash, has more room for movement with his dash attack but survivors can dodge it all the easier, half-measure stealth, and even in the best case scenarios his time to down is abysmal. He makes Freddy look good.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783231#Comment_3783231
what, no. chucky cannot counter god pallets anymore. People that were bad with chucky weren't doing good before change. nothing changed for them.
Chucky became stronger at map presence and deadzones but worse vs strong loops/god pallets.
You're wasting your breath with this one.
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@Seraphor said:
Chests are only 'not worth it' if you treat the game like a straight sprint.
The game might be able to be boiled down to a race against the clock, but that doesn't mean time costs are linearly comparable.
If option A takes 30 seconds and option B takes 40 seconds, it doesn't necessarily mean option A is the best way if it's also the riskiest.
E.g. opening a chest to get a medkit to heal up can be the better play to avoid goung down in one hit.
Similarly a toolbox isn't going to refund the time it cost to open the chest, but like Potential Energy, the benefit of repairing a gen a few seconds faster could be all the difference between winning or losing the game.
But the game is like that. It's what separates the men from the boys on this game. If you're spending 30 seconds running to/opening a chest, you could have spent that much time on a gen. The game already gives you an option to bring in items, which you should be doing every time. And, if so, that means you shouldn't be opening a chest for a "new" item. You can only leave the trial with one, so what's the point? The whole mechanic is just a dumb noob trap, which we especially saw in 2v8. 2 gens less than necessary to do, and instead of taking advantage of that, people were searching chests and totems which doesn't advance their objective at all. At least in that mode though, you couldn't bring in items, so there was a sliver of an argument made that you'd go for chests. But it's still casual-tier misplay. Dracula's new perks only work to noob crush, and deny that new instaheal perk which won't see play outside the first week anyway.
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@Gastongard said:
Unless BHVR gives survivors an incentive for doing gens, this will keep happening, so far all the answers to this issue has been giving the killer the free 4k, with aura revealing within X amount of time, crows appearing faster, etc. These are all bad ideas, because will put the balance more on the killer side than what already is (60-70% according to BHVR) and this will end up with more nerfs to killer perks, etc. I think the best should be something similar to what Propnight did, each time a survivor dies the remaining survivors gained some extra % in repairing, to the point that the game is not over even when is 1v1, that survivor is able to even repair by himself if he can do it the last gen. This would also help balancing the game in the scenario of your teammate killing himself on the first hook. On the other hand, killers should gain X% of perma haste per survivor killed. In propnight we saw this working and the killers still had the advantage and most % in wining matches.I think games would be a lot more interactive and less boring in a 2v1 scenario with something like this implemented.
I think this would make the game more interactive and less boring in those scenarios.Your biggest mistake is buying into that horrible statistic of a 60-something % kill rate. Not only is it completely skewed by survivors throwing matches, and killers getting dominated all match and then having NOED at the end, but it could be the result of the killers having like 80% of their matches be draws. But hey, as long as it comes out to over 60%, killer must be too strong, right? Poppycock.
Aura reveals for killer against survivors not doing anything is not a bad idea. You need to let the killer be able to close out the game. The survivors can already do so too, by doing the gens or getting hatch for free. What is a bad idea is giving the remaining survivors a gen boost. The whole reason killers tunnel is because they're on the back foot from the very start, because mathematically they can't withstand 4 survivors' gen efficiency. Even with really quick chases, the killer loses 2 gens instantly almost every time, starting the game at 3 gens and 1-2 hooks. So they want to get 1 survivor out ASAP, since they must. Giving the remaining survivors a boost negates that advantage. I don't think killers getting Haste in exchange would help either, because the devs will never give killer the Haste % that they need. It'll be like 2% or something unnoticeable.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783171#Comment_3783171
I like how the OP and others can't just admit that they want a guaranteed 4k in a 2v1.
Because you're giving a false premise, that if the survivors are found they will guaranteed die. Seems like a skill issue to me. The alternative is that 1 survivor loops, and the other does the gens. If 1 gets hooked, their teammate waits for the right moment to save, and then the cycle starts again. If the killer guards the gen that was being worked on instead of chasing, then he has 2 survivors unaccounted for which is even worse for him. It isn't always the case that there's 2 survivors left, and 3-4 gens left to do, or no pallets left to use. If that's the case, those survivors deserve to lose anyway. But anything's possible for the survivors as long as they keep trying, not hiding but actually trying to advance the objective just like they would when all 4 are alive. Looking for a survivor-sided solution to the 2v1 scenario basically suggests that survivors should never be in a losing situation, even if it's very much their fault. Others seemingly can, but I can't go along with that nonsense.
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
The problem is that in a 2v1, unless the last Gen is almost done, doing gens isn’t actually progressing the survivor objective. It’s just ensuring they get found and killed lol. A very common scenario: someone gets camped/tunneled out with 4 or 5 gens left, next person gets caught and gives up on hook so now there’s 2 survivors left. The game is unwinnable at that point so why would either person waste time trying to do gens? The problem isn’t hiding, the problem is unwinnable situations that grind the game to a halt.
And hatch doesn't solve this. Especially because "unwinnable" is very subjective in this game. Survivors can say that the game is unwinnable as soon as 1 person dies, and we'd just have to accept that definition since they're the majority. I don't think we should even be looking for a solution for this if it doesn't include giving agency to the killer. Survivors can't just hide, because that's what drags the game out. So I'm in favor of giving killer info to prevent halted games.
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@Nick said:
There is no reward for hooking people. People who are on death hook repair generators as fast as people who haven't been hooked. If you want to get rewarded for hooking survivors you have to bring Pain Resonance or Pop. They have extremely boring effects but you are forced to bring them because your regression at base is laughable (25% of survivor repair speed). You regress in 4 seconds what a single survivor can repair in 1 second....
These perks will get nerfed next patch, giving you even less of a reward for hooking (seperate) people. Killer players will be looking for alternatives.
I'm also looking for other perks which can help you level this regression/progression gap. But I found that Surge and Eruption block important center generators extremely fast, making them unreliable. Even when you're not actively "3-genning", when survivors are attacking the same generator over and over they will force you to block it eventually. Also Surge only works with basic attacks. And Call of Brine adds a whopping 3.75 seconds extra regression (that is if you get to regress the generator for 60 seconds minimum) , making it more of an info perk than actual regression.
I might start looking into slugging, with slugging perks. Maybe boring for survivors? But what alternative would you suggest to me
There's no reward for injuring, downing, or hooking. And there's no downside to being injured, so survivors actually misplay when they heal instead of do gens. So killers have been looking for alternatives in the form of tunneling, camping, and slugging. I just tunnel with chase perks and Rancor at the end, and usually get a 2k from that. It's not much but it's better than a completely undeserved 0k.
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@HEX_DEAD_BY_AI said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730959#Comment_3730959
You said: "Maybe boring for survivors?" » So, I have to ask, do you get bored playing that way, as a killer role?
The only thing I can suggest to you is to try watching some live streams on TTV, or videos on YouTube, to see how good killers do their job with nice play.
I've faced many excellent killers, they protect their gens extremely well. Many players who tend not to protect gens will cause gens to fly, then blame it on the nerfed perks.
Your entire argument is that killers defending their gens, instead of tunneling or whatever, is what gets them the win. But then you think that those gen defence perks being nerfed has nothing to do with more people playing "boring," and that they can be just as strong as before while using nerfed strategies. Just looking at the math of efficient survivors vs efficient killers, a killer getting a down like every 30 seconds still isn't enough to protect gens, because 2 are popping right after the first chase, and 2 more will pop sometime during the 2-4th chase. So the killer's usually at 1 gen with 4 hooks. Why would he not want to get a survivor out of the game ASAP if that's the speed that 4 survivors do their objective? He can circumvent some chase time or gen time with perks, but then the survivors have equivalent perks on their side, and there's 4 of them.
Truth is, gen defence is pointless. You'll beat the bad survivors with that strategy, but the good ones physically can't be stopped from doing all 5. I don't want to win my matches because MMR chose me as a charity case. I want to win because of my skill, which fast gens and long chase times don't allow. So of course it looks to you like low-skill killers are winning; they barely have a chance to interact with you. But they were smart, and instead of hooking 4 people and getting nothing for it, they got 1 kill. If the survivors are too scared or nooby to hook save at the end, they get at least another kill. Path of least resistance.
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@Chaosrider said:
Slugging was always an issue. Knock Out, Deerstalker, Third Seal … this playstyle is super old and still allows to circumvent the intended gameplay. People going for it from start of the trial are just focusing on making the game as annoying as possible. And devs still think its fine to have such a toxic mindset.
You're looking too far into it. They don't play like that to be toxic; they play to win. If what they're doing didn't advance their objective in any way, it's probably toxic. Same with survivors who tbag or moonwalk at the killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
With sabo beeing buffed you can expect to see more of this as a counter.
More like the buff to hook time. What's even the point of hooking? Waste time doing a thing you have to do 2 more times per person, meanwhile survivors can just rush gens and hook trade at the last second, which is still not in your favor time-wise.
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Free flame turrets for survivors, microscopic tail hitbox that's also hard to aim, massive stun from missed tail attacks, tail attacks on turrets count as misses, awkwardly placed tp spawns which sometimes don't spawn near the gen at all. The question is, what does this killer have going for him? I still like to play him, but I just get tired of all the issues.
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They should, if possible. Having a dramatically different-looking tier list depending on whether you're on console or PC is not a good thing. You almost never see Oni or Trickster console players, but played on PC they jump up 2 tiers.
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@notPenPen said:
Iunno I'm personally sick of the "how dare 1 gen get done" or "how dare this survivor last longer than 10 seconds in chase" in which the killer slugs everyone and let's them bleed out at 4 or 5 gens meta.
The scenarios you're describing don't happen. Nobody's getting mad that a single gen gets done or a survivor makes 1 window or pallet in chase. They're mad when 3 gens pop in the short first chase, or when a survivor can just wait at a loop and guarantee wasted time because the killer physically can't get reach them in under 30-45 seconds. The killers downing everybody with 4-5 gens up is baby-tier stuff. The survivors cannot be going down that fast if they're playing well. 95% of the killers who even find themselves in that position are just gonna start hooking, not bleeding out for no reason. There's toxic killers, of course, but they only get their way when facing survivors way below their caliber. Toxic survivors can toy with the killer and do whatever they want even when he's actually good at the game. That's the difference.
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@VantablackPharaoh91 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782820#Comment_3782820
I mean what else are they expected to use, thee is nothing else. Or are you saying that they should just hand the game to Survs with stacked toolboxes and never run any gen control and basically let you win?
Defending gens is part of the job description as KIller. Gen regression is a necessary part of that as long as Gen PROgression remains in the game. The more gen progression you all stack, the more that Killers feel the need to run gen control, because one of their emblems comes from holding gens down long enough. If they want points and to pip, they have to do this; it's just how the game is designed and encourages them to play.You simply are never getting rid of gen regression or ever going to see it not be popular. The harder Survs want to win by bringing gen stuff, the harder Killers want to win by bringing gen regression. Even in its nerfed state. They could literally nerf these perks into the ground entirely and Killers would still stack four of them, because it really is that important especially in higher level play and especially for any Killer that isn't highly mobile. This is a game design flaw. The easiest fix is addressing gen speedup perks and tools, but they won't. If you want more chase, Killers need more reason than not to chase than they do to drag the game out to do ANYTHING. And right now, all gen regression is not all that likely to do much unless you stack them.
The more you nerf gen perks for Killer, the more Killers WILL stack them… because there is nothing left for half the Roster.I reject this because, I'm hoping, at some point killers are gonna wake up and realize chase perks and endgame as far superior. They're still using gen defence because they've convinced themselves it's the only way. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Gen defence hasn't been good for years. I always scoffed at those people who said, "You don't need gen defence vs good teams. You can just beat them." But maybe what they meant is what I've realized, that something like Spirit Fury/Enduring plus Rancor and maybe an aura perk could, if nothing else, at least get you the draw vs good teams. I refuse to take that build off my killers because to me it's all that works, and you might see other killers follow suit.
My aura perks of choice, if I bring one, is Gearhead. It procks often enough to where you see survivors exactly when you need to: when they're on gens and on heals. If you have Rancor, you might not need it, but it can help in finding the person you need to tunnel. Tunneling 1 out, and then finding Rancor at the end is a draw. Alternatively you can tunnel 1 out, hook someone else at the end, and the Rancor can't come in so the last person has to hook trade. That's a draw still. But if they screw up at the end, you can turn a 2k into a 3k or even 4k. I'm tired of settling for draws, but this is the best we got right now. It's the only thing stopping the meta we all fear, which is having to go all-in on slugging.
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@solarjin1 said:
whoa there! wHat… they using gen defense still? no way
I'm surprised as well. Gen defence has been fruitless for years.
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@Sngfun said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782755#Comment_3782755
There's a reason top tier killers are defined by mobility, they can do something about this problem. Surveillance is an unconterable info perk that synergizes with the meta (pop, pain res, opression, surge, etc).
It's not "uncounterable." It's just guaranteed. Uncounterable would be like downing a survivor across the map after the last gen got done. Like in the case of Rancor, the part that's guaranteed is the survivor gets exposed, but it in no way guarantees the down. Survivors have actual uncounterable stuff, like the BT instaheal or Dead Hard which you have to "wait out," yet whether you swing or not they still get to the pallet and don't get downed. And no gen defence perks are meta anymore. Killers are living a pipe dream trying to make those perks work still, and I guess survivors just self-fulfilling prophecy themselves on how strong those perks are, like they do with Nurse, Skull Merchant, or any other thing that makes the match more difficult.
@Sngfun said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782769#Comment_3782769
THIS! the mft ultimate weapon meta was the worst meta and the 3 gen meta nearly killed the game… if anything we have one of the best metas ever…
3-gen meta was never a threat to the game, and in fact it could have saved it. What? Survivors actually having to strategize as a team and have map awareness instead of just going for the first gen they see over and over? Yeah, maybe 3-genning should be strong. But now it can't be, because there's a gen kick limit, so whoever's complaining about the strat now is a joke. Actually, the strategy wasn't great before because there's no way the killer could focus on tunneling 1 out AND keep a 3-gen at the same time. That ideal scenario would always be something the survivors gave the killer for free. And yet, even as a 3v1 in a 3-gen the survivors still won the war of attrition. Literally push the 2 furthest apart gens, hold W when the killer's anywhere near, and they lose the race against time, because the gen regression is always slower than the progression. The teams who weren't capable of doing this should have lost anyway, 3-gen or no.