anarchy753
anarchy753
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642775#Comment_3642775
I think in your scenario Self Care is the bigger Stalling Tool.
When they have self care and botany knowledge on more than half of survivors, the only perk that reliably slows healing is Sloppy Butcher.
Of course, I'm guessing the nerf comes because their stats show that nobody uses junk perks like whatever rubbish Skull Merchant had that slows healing by basically nothing for almost no time at all until you've reached like 10 hooks.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642221#Comment_3642221
She can't get unlimited Overcharge and Oppression procs though. Once she burnt through the 8 regression events, she can't kick the gens anymore, so Overcharge and Oppression won't activate either. It does not add up. Even with Ruin you would push through. The survivors could also destroy the totem. The silent skill check drones should not do that alone (unless of course you mess up every single one of them and get pretty unlucky with the amount of skill checks).
The only thing that would explain it is survivors refusing to do gens and just hiding. In which case, who is holding whom hostage?
Oppression only counts for the gen you kick, so theoretically in a 3 gen you could get 24 procs which is damaging gens 72 times.
Realistically though, that's unlikely.
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@skylerbound said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642351#Comment_3642351
It’s crazy to me, that player retention is not a high priority for them. I know how much of a daunting task it would be policing these toxic behaviours(both sides) would be. I’st still best for the overall heath of the game for new and veteran players.
Player retention is a less critical factor than getting new players when just buying the game and the characters costs $100s. They profit far more off hooking someone new than tempting you into a crappy outfit every now and then.
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I really hope they don't nerf sloppy hard. Living in Japan EVERY SINGLE SURVIVOR has self care and sloppy is one of the best stalling tools because they self care EVERY injury.
Almost certainly Pig's gonna get a nerf like "screaming no longer interrupts searching a Jigsaw box," or "Jigsaw box search progress is kept if interrupted" which is fine.
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I've never seen a game where people relish making the other team's game miserable quite so much.
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If Xeno has to stop chasing you to hit the turret, and then go after you again, the turret is already doing its job, whether it breaks him out of his power or not.
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There is a problem in this game, and it is tunneling.
What the devs fail to grasp over, and over, and over, is that the solution to a fundamental issue like that ISN'T A DAMN PERK.
It shouldn't be on the survivor players to give up 1/4 (or more) of their build just for a safety net to stop a killer player removing them from the game before two gens go off.
My solution would be this, baseline, not a perk:
When the first player is unhooked, they get a status for like 3-4 minutes.
If they are downed, this status timer is paused. If a different survivor is hooked, this status is lost immediately.
If they are hooked while they have the status, all other survivors in the match gain a 25% boost to gen repair speed.
If they die by missing struggle skill checks, the gen repair speed is lost.
If they are hooked a third time and die without another player being hooked, the gen repair speed bonus is permanent for the rest of the match.
As a mechanic, it should have literally zero impact as long as you don't play like an absolute #########. It just means that when your playstyle is "I want to ruin this game for one person as immediately as possible," the rest of the team still stands a chance of beating you, because as is, being down a teammate early is basically a death sentence anyway.
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"The community loves fun killers"
No, the community jumps onto whatever killer gives them the easiest time. Billy has literally no downside to being able to cross the map instantly and one-shot people even in relatively safe places against other killers.
It was PAINFULLY obvious when they nerfed him, and that whole cohort just jumped ship to Blight because he was the next most oppressive killer.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
We just can't have fun killers without long cooldowns and punishments for even small mistakes, right?
In a single player game, sure.
In a game where the other players' skill has to matter as well, and you shouldn't just repeatedly get chance after chance after chance to one-shot them without penalty, no.
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Yeah I loathe flashlights, and this 30 flashlight blinds challenge is between me and having all achievements again.
Paired with the fact that most killers are running lightborn at the moment, it's really miserable. I can't wait to go back to pretending flashlights don't exist.
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There's no excuse for not just shrinking the buttons slightly to fit a new one. If something has to be hidden behind menus, make it "special lights out mode" or whatever, not the main game.
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Just when you thought tome rewards couldn't get worse than charms.
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Nah. I'm sick of half my build just being perks to stop killers with no game sense from having perfect knowledge of where I am all the time.
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Yeah, how about no? I genuinely cannot her her screeching noises through my tinnitus like 90% of the time.
Accessibility options exist for a reason.
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I play normally. I don't tend to camp or slug much anyway.
Sometimes, when someone gives up on first hook, I take a look at my build and wonder why someone doesn't want to play that game, but I doubt many people here actually care about the enjoyment of the other team.
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The thing with the recent nerfs is that they're clearly trying to make condemned the same as moris. With how hard it is to apply, but it gets locked on hook, they only want people getting a condemn kill if the survivor is dead on hook.
The failure comes from the fact that the stall condemn is MEANT to bring is the bulk of the value of her power. With how unthreatening it is, and how the only real risk is you might not be able to trigger a perk like DS when you're dead on hook anyway, who REALLY cares if you get morid on death hook? So all the parts of her power meant to keep survivors busy to balance how weak she is in chases just don't work, so she's just a weak killer with a gimmick.
They need to find the balance point where condemned is threatening enough to force you to interact with it, but not so passively threatening that players who haven't even seen the killer are able to be condemn killed on first down.
And therein lies the problem. BHVR doesn't tweak and adjust and see if things move in the right direction. They buff and nerf 50 things at once, it wildly changes the killer, and then they still haven't fixed the problem because it just becomes broken in the other direction.
Like in all honesty, from last patches Sadako, they should have just made condemned go from global on teleport to something like 32m around the tv. See how that goes. Don't screw around with all the tape mechanics, and cooldowns, and add ons, and manifest mechanics at the same time. Make one, significant change, see how it goes, and see if more is needed after that.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640775#Comment_3640775
The counterplay is letting go as the hook animation starts. That's how you counter Pain Res and DMS - or at least, it was for a while, and I'm asking you if that's changed.
Was that change made? Can you no longer counter Pain Res + DMS by letting go at the start of the hook animation?
The gen explodes at the start of the hooking animation, so unless you have direct line of sight of the killer hooking, or swf to tell you when to let go, no, you can't just let go when you see the survivor aura going onto the hook.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640680#Comment_3640680
I will freely admit that it's possible I'm wrong here, but I've been under the impression that Pain Resonance + Dead Man's Switch is still counterable by letting go as the hook animation starts, the way it was changed to be when Pain Res + DMS was a big combo the first time. Has that changed recently and Pain Res activates earlier now?
If it has changed, though, Seraphor is right. That means Pain Res + DMS is the problem, not Grim Embrace + DMS. In that scenario Grim Embrace isn't even doing anything.
The issue is that pre-change, you could wait out Pain Res for a few seconds of carry time, then you were safe from DMS. If it was GE without Pain Res, you could work through carry time and then let go before GE triggers to avoid the longer DMS proc.
Having all three means that you either wait a long time for both avoiding the PR caused-DMS and GE to expire, or you trigger it and have to wait a long time regardless. There's no winning counterplay, it's just whether or not the gen is blocked while you stand there unable to work on it.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639897#Comment_3639897
It doesn't do that?
It stops every gen from progressing for 76 seconds total, and that's staggered across multiple hooks with the first three only being for 12 seconds.
To the point of the thread, too, that's nowhere close to what Eruption used to do. Even disregarding the actual regression Eruption would apply, under Grim Embrace + Dead Man's Switch survivors can do literally anything that isn't generators, unlike Eruption.
Grim Embrace stops gens for 76 seconds. I really have no problem with Grim Embrace alone. DMS bumping every 12 second block up to a 30 second block is the problem.
Then you add Pain Resonance, so you can't just wait until the hook is done to let go and wait out GE, because the pop will trigger DMS anyway. So to "wait out" Grim Embrace, you're waiting out the carry time and the grim embrace time, at which point you may as well have just let it get DMSed.
As Pain Resonance activates at the start of the animation, you can't just let go of a gen with perfect timing unless you have SWF to tell you when.
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Being able to stop EVERY gen from progressing for two and a half minutes is ludicrous. And genuinely, survivors are standing around with their dick in their hands every time it happens waiting to be allowed to play the game again.
DMS should flat out just not trigger from anything that FORCES the survivor to let go of the gen.
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I agree it was ok to remove overheat.
However, in a single patch, removing the big negative of his power, adding a massive boost to his power in its place, AND buffing his base kit and add ons with basically zero drawbacks was way too much.
Game balance like this should be done progressively, and then see if more is needed, not all at once and just see what happens.
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I'll grab him with my leftover cells instead of some crappy outfit.
Personally I don't use a flashlight so he literally has no perks.
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@th3syst3m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636448#Comment_3636448
How is it survivor sided when kill rates are higher and when you take the strongest killer vs the strongest swf and the killer wins? You can play make believe all you want, it's not an opinion that killer is stronger it's a fact.
Because contrary to how people pretend it is online, the game is not only Nurse against SWF.
If we're looking at how balanced the game is, it's disingenuous to judge the killer role by 1 of 34 possible killers. Even with 2 or 3 being very strong, there's a wide cast, most of which see significant amounts of players, that are far more balanced.
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DBD is survivor sided. There are some very strong, oppressive killers, but the majority of the cast is manageable.
People who just blindly quote "muh kill rates" severely miss the subtlety of the statistics.
Think about it logically.
It is very likely that you go from a game with 0 kills to a game with 1 kill. You can suck all game, but you down one person endgame and you either camp them to death, or people keep trading until one dies. It takes little skill or effort to get a single kill.
Likewise, it is far easier to get the fourth kill than it is to get the 2nd or 3rd kill. The survivors are still competitive with several alive, they can still outplay you to buy time. When you down survivor 3, any killer can choose to slug them and track down survivor 4. Worst case, they don't find them and hatch is a 50/50 at best for the survivor. Again, the killer didn't play any better or worse, but because of being asymmetrical, a fourth kill is much easier.
We have 2 factors at both the low and high end that push kill numbers up, whether the game was a survivor stomp or a killer stomp. There is no real overarching factor that makes kills less likely in the same way.
Therefore, in a balanced game, we should still expect that kills are higher than 50%.
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I'd love to see a mechanic along the lines of:
If the first player is hooked twice in a row without anyone else being hooked, all other survivors gain a considerable repair speed bonus.
This bonus is lost when another player is hooked, this bonus is permanent if the first player is hooked 3 times before another player is hooked. (Does not include giving up on hook or not being unhooked on phase 2.)
Nothing outrageous, just a bit of encouragement towards "ruining one person's match may not be the best move for you."
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I can completely understand why people opt out of Nurse games. She has this weird case of being the absolute strongest killer who really doesn't need much besides practice to steamroll survivors, but at the same time, she's the most likely killer to be played like an absolute sweatlord.
I don't remember the last time I played against a Nurse who didn't hard tunnel out the first person they hooked, because it's just so fast to do so on her. Even if you play decently and survive a while against her, your reward for sticking with the match is 4 mins spent laying on the ground waiting for her to trudge around the map looking for the survivor who's crouched in the corner waiting for you to die, because god forbid she save us all the boring wasted time if it costs her 1000 bloodpoints.
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Sadly, I'm stuck in a sunk-cost fallacy with having all the achievements. His perks are probably the worst on any survivor to date for me, as perk or no perk I'm not the sort of person to run a clicky. However, without unlocking him, I can't get adept even if I get all of his perks off the shrine.
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@gatsby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635361#Comment_3635361
Maybe but that effect is so oddly specific. The last time they did something like that was Empathic Connection and that 10% boost specifically relates to the design of the perk.
Not saying Empathic Connection is amazing. Both perks are pretty tragic honestly
Empathic Connection: All game, you know that somewhere out there is a teammate actively choosing to ignore that you're clearly running healing perks, and they would prefer to self care for 45 seconds.
No other effect.
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"We heard you didn't want a cooldown on Sadako's power, but some killer players were using her power with some semblance of tactics or planning, so we gave her one anyway."
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I took a year long break not long after Dredge. I barely played Sadako, pretty much just enough to get her achievements. Now when I go for a daily on her I get P100s. I'm still skeptical that MMR has any sort of impact on lobbies.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631557#Comment_3631557
Basically this.
For Survivors, Bots were the worst introduction. You can rather play a 3v1 than a 3v1 plus a Bot. The only thing they do is to provide the Killer with opportunities to get PGTW or Pain Res.
I mean, they are alright for testing out how a Killer Power is working (because you can start a Custom game alone with Bots), but this is about it. They are not helpful, they are just point pinatas for Killers and you cannot really practice against them in Custom games.
Part of the reason bots were added was specifically to prevent survivor DCs being of a tactical advantage. The amount of times killers would lose potential BBQ reads because the survivor on their shoulder was salty, or someone would get hatch because the 2nd to last decided to quit to give it to them was gross.
There's less reason to quit when it also no longer has a benefit to your team.
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It would be a good system if you could opt out of it. Like Peanits said, some experienced players want harder matches.
Some.
As it is, there's almost no way to play (besides being an absolutely useless teammate) where your MMR doesn't creep up, and not being able to play the game without "harder matches" means not being able to play a fun match without every opponent being the sweatiest possible players.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632916#Comment_3632916
Just look on my profile under comments. It was a recent one.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632919#Comment_3632919
I'm not sure where you're getting "very very very rare". 4 of my matches in the past week has had 8+ regression events on a single gen. Wasn't even a 3 gen situation. Normally was happening on small maps like The Game where just about any down was causing mass surge hits mixed in with me going back to kick occasionally since I don't camp gens (as in, they would hop back on the gen and get far more than 4 seconds on it, so not even the 4 second rule would help). In every case of this happening, the survivors were generally focused on central generators in the map and mostly disregarding the outer gens. Sure, their bad planning, but why should I get punished with some out of nowhere "you're not allowed to kick this gen anymore! hahahahaha!" for their bad planning?
How is that "bad planning?" Either they do the gens in the middle while the outer gens still might be of some concern to you and they have more players, or they do the outer gens and leave a nasty 3 gen potentially with less players, against a player who admittedly seems to have been focused on keeping the central gens pressured.
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I don't think there'll be a major impact on many perks, however, I think it creates the interesting situation where it could be valuable to sneak 5% on any gens early, so that if the killer kicks them, or gets them hit with a perk like Surge, they have less possible regression events if they're valuable gens in the future. Hard to say though, because if you can get 5% on a gen you should probably just stay on it anyway.
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@TheSaltySaloon said:
I live in Japan so maybe it’s different then US
I'm in Japan too, and I can agree, I'm sick to death of those three. I've genuinely started bringing Distortion regularly because of how prevalent Lethal + BBQ Nurse is.
Throw in tombstone Myers too as fourth most popular.
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When you found a survivor, you had to tag them with your power, and then wait 7 seconds before you could interact with them in any way, including both hitting and bodyblocking. So by the time they were in the dream world, they were almost always safely next to a pallet, or at a strong loop. From that point, your power did nothing, so you were the most basic M1 killer, just on a long delay.
Outside of 1(?) add on, survivors didn't go to sleep by themselves, you had to manually find all of them and apply it, though it tended to last more because they HAD to fail skill checks to leave.
Outside of a chase, your power was just a debilitating slowdown. It was powerful, but made playing against Freddy tedious. Even if you were doing well, it wasn't particularly fun, like every game with a Legion, but seeing the killer less often.
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Lightborn is fine as a perk.
A flashlight is an extra strength above the baseline of play. You don't NEED one to play, having one in 90% of games doesn't even slightly influence how the game plays out. To negate them, the killer is burning 1/4 of their potential slowdown, chase benefits, etc JUST to remove a slight annoyance, and if anything, encourage you to be MORE efficient in your gen work.
The closest comparison to a flashlight is the killer's add ons, and personally, if survivors had a perk that disables 1/3 of the killer's add ons (in line with Lightborn not affecting med kits, or toolboxes, and keys being worthless) but they all had to run 3 perks instead of 4 to have that effect, I'd probably take that as killer.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632362#Comment_3632362
This is the change i would want. I think removing the ability for myers to kill without a mori completely would be a shame.
I wouldn't mind that at all because it solves all the problems. It means he has to do real chases, and hook players, so everyone still has opportunity for bloodpoints and pips, and it means you aren't deleted from the game for 3 seconds of misplay, or running into an almost-no-terror-radius killer after completing a gen you couldn't possibly have seen him from.
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Ugh old DBD. I certainly don't miss the days of being stuck on a generator with someone who keeps the gen from ever progressing with ruin, or trying to play killer when EVERY player had extra health states in the first chase because EVERYONE had DS.
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@finalgrrl said:
there’s so many things in this game that are busted, complaining about the rare tombstone is craaaazy. in the last month i’ve seen zero tombstone myers.
and tombstone is fun to play against. it’s high stakes. it adds some extra tension to play around. he’s the only killer who has the ability and he’s a relatively low pick killer.
"I don't play against it, so it isn't a problem."
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@mikewelk said:
I wish more people knew about the locker tech... Nevertheless, the add-on needs to be worked on because solo queue is already enough of a nuisance as is.
Yeah, great. Instead of being instakilled, I can be pulled out of a locker and slugged for 4 minutes. That's so much more engaging and rewarding.
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@Slaughterhouse3 said:
I used to love running it lol but after awhile it is certainly one of those things that is so strong, it actually gets boring after awhile. It does need a change.
Yep, I don't know if it's just the meta of the region, or bloodweb changes (amongst piles of extra bloodpoint events) just making it way more available, but at this point Myers is in my top 5 most played against killers this month and I genuinely can't remember the last time I played against one that DIDN'T have tombstone.
It's such an utterly miserable experience. You get no points and no pips because Myers never commits to chases and never hooks anyone, so your choices are genrush and leave with basically nothing, die because no matter how well you play, the killer is DESIGNED to get his power, and you can't stop teammates feeding him, or have a long drawn out stealth game where you still leave with nothing.
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They've been talking about temporary alternative game modes, I think it would definitely be interesting to have one of them be "no duplicate characters or perks," though I feel like it would run into the problem other games have with long lobbies because people just leave if they can't have the thing they want.
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In my opinion he just has too much going for him.
All other stealth killers still need to put in some effort when approaching players as they can be spotted by alert players at a distance. Chucky only needs regular grass for it to be exceptionally difficult to spot him before he's already on top of you.
His giggles seem to be intended as a countermeasure for this, but I hear a giggle maybe 1 in 10 times he comes at me. Whether it's due to how infrequent they are, or if map tiles can block the sound, I don't know, but it should absolutely be made so that a survivor near Chucky in Hidey-Ho mode WILL hear giggles.
His dash is a flat power-creep on the Pig, and it comes without the downside of being slower than survivors to use it, and you don't have to be stationary to charge the attack.
Outside of that I think his power is alright, but it needs to be more consistent, and potentially the dash attack should be shortened.
In regards to his perks, the only big one is Friends Til The End. Personally I think it needs to lose the scream when the obsession changes, because as it is it rewards everything you do. Hook the obsession? Be shown another player. Don't hook the obsession? Be shown the obsession. It should be one or the other not a win-win. It especially sucks to be in the final two against this perk, because it reveals you regardless of who's being hooked.
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I love it for maps where it's hard to tell which gens are close together, or are just hard to find in general. I used it a fair bit while working on Outbreak Breakout and being able to progressively work on the gens that are in a 3 gen with the 2 main hall gens that killers defend like their lives depend on it makes the late game on that map much more bearable.
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Lucky you. I'm living in Japan and the meta here is tombstone Myers at least 5 times a day. You wanted bloodpoints, pips, or anything resembling an interactive match? Not here.
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@StarLost said:
While there are a few things that probably need to be tweaked (put DS back to 5 seconds, Nurse needs a look), the major argument seems to boil down to 'I'm not escaping as much as I was'.
That...is the point of the patch.
BHVR has access to data we don't.
According to them, kill rates weren't high enough.
They thus adjusted them by buffing killers.
Naturally, you won't be escaping as much as before!
"put ds back to 5 seconds."
I think you're missing the point of 6.1 because they wanted the meta perks to change. Not still be DS but DS feels slightly worse, because they've tried that about 50 times and everyone still runs DS. They want it to feel bad enough that you actually use a different perk.
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It was an old program they ran where they would make users on the forum "trusted" which meant those users commented a lot and generally most of what they said was honest, nice to others, and largely showed BHVR in a positive light.
It was a massive pain initially since it was pretty much just the people who commented a lot so every single thread was tagged "trusted" making it completely useless as a measure for threads.
Since then nearly all the people BHVR "trusted" have completely quit the forums/the game over some pretty awful decisions on BHVR's part, and the rest got banned along the way. Once in a blue moon you see one of them come back to drop a comment or two.
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@DBD78 said:
But that was the point. We were all tired of the same meta perks, they had to nerf it in this way or people would still use it all the time.
Exactly. They've shown time and time again that these little slap-on-the-writs nerfs don't stop anyone running the perk. Something major like this was the only thing that was going to be good enough to make people think "maybe it's not a perk I should bring every single match."
The goal of the patch was to shuffle what perks are used commonly, not to have the same perks be used every match but feel a little worse to use.
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ROFL.
Only if "skill-based" means "passively forces the killer to not do about 50 different things because of your perks that MIGHT be in play, and when they actually are, get tonnes of extra health states."
It's going to be a completely refreshing experience to get to play killer instead of playing "remember the list of survivor perks you have to be inefficient to avoid being hit by every 4 seconds."