Zeidoktor
Zeidoktor
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Simplest compensation for this might be a BP score event for every generators or exit gate completed while you're in chase and/or on a hook worth the killer within X meters.
If you get camped to death, get a final bonus based on the amount of time you spent being camped. Make it worthwhile and it might even dissuade some hook suicides.
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@supersonic853 said:
Hes amazing and with overheat basically gone i can't complain.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3406664#Comment_3406664
This guy basically has it. Though ill disagree on the iri its probably one of his better ones. Silent saw with undetectable has gotten me so much downs lol. But yeah the flashlight one. And some others really need fixes.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3406716#Comment_3406716
Yeah ive had a few games like that where its the last 2 survivors and me and one of the survivors just 1v1 for a few minutes. So nice.
I think their point on the Iri is it should make the chainsaw silent, period, rather than have the TR restriction
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@Phasmamain said:
It should stack. Afaik the 33% penalty only applies to medkits and not self care itself
Self-Care is its own penalty.
More seriously, I've wondered if negating that 33% medkit penalty could be a potential buff to Self-Care. Get medkits to pre-update at the cost of a perk slot.
My other idea is, now matter what healing slowdown is in effect, Self-Care's healing can't be dropped below its 35% base effect.
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@FatallyIconic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3406119#Comment_3406119
Self care is not good because most killers are running sloppy. Bond and Botany combined with Leader would be more effective.
I've been wondering lately if it might be be possible to buff Self-Care now. If not a straight numbers buff than something like "self- healing speed can't be reduced past Self-Care's base 35%", which would make healing slowdown less effective (but still enable it to prevent increasing Self-Care's speed) or "negates the 33% self-heal penalty on medkits", putting medkits back where they were pre-update at the cost of a perk slot.
I favor the speed reduction limit myself. Potentially gives Self-Care a niche use in that, even in the worst case, you can still do that 35% heal.
Edit: apologies for the double post
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@Yogi96 said:
Hello all, in this new era of slow med kits and sloppy butcher, I think this combo has decent weight as long as one person is running it in a team of 4. Thoughts? Its been effective for me so far.
Don't the slow medkits only affect self-healing? All of them except the Emergency Medkit had their altruistic healing increased.
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@FootMan2893 said:
Negative, ghost rider. I'm leaning about 90% of the way to saying this is troll bait since it's funny watching people flounder at the sight of really dumb takes. But since I do know for a fact people like this can exist I'll give a serious reply. Oni offers plenty of counter play to both sides. Survivors can get strong loops to outplay demon dash while good Oni mains can learn angles and flicks to also get survivors when they don't expect it.
He's an M1 killer with a slow start up and timed patches of power spikes where he can put down both chase and map pressure. A much more well designed version of Myers honestly.
And if this is a real post I'm having trouble taking your opinion seriously because A: You aren't even capable of properly reading ability descriptions that clearly explain how the ability works, thus revealing to you that you had insta downs all along. And B: You're playing against survivors that you can still 3 and 4k while basically using half of Oni's kit.
I'm gonna take a bit of a presumptuous guess here and say if I went against those same survivors as a perkless and powerless M1 killer the results would be about the same.
TBF, if I understood correctly, OP knew about the instadowns in general but claims to not have known that they could be used during Demon Dash.
Still baffling since that's a well known part of his kit, one that could easily have been discovered by accidentally left-clicking during a dash, encountered when going up against an Oni as Survivor, or seen by even a casual search for videos on Oni.
While I mention it myself I'm not going to knock anyone not reading power descriptions. They aren't the best written things ever and I tend to skip them myself. Hell I only just recently noticed myself the bit in the Doctor's power that his shocks negate Oblivious.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405923#Comment_3405923
That explains so much about SM it's kind of funny
I know, right?
If you want to learn more I got my info from The Last Podcast on the Left, episodes 346 and 347.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/S65HIHUD0YJK/da0822fc-90ef-4caa-9573-5eb1866b3fde.jpeg
At this point it feels like her entire lore is making fun of her. If that’s the intention then it should’ve been more clearly stated
This just hurts to read tbh. This was their chance to redeem skill merchant and it’s only gotten worse
My feeling has been her lore was based on Mark Twitchell, the Dexter Killer.
He was a wannabe serial killer out of Edmonton, Alberta who was also a wannabe filmmaker and into the cosplay/convention scene. Claiming to be inspired by the TV show Dexter he lured men to a set he was using for a horror movie be pretending to by a woman on a dating site. Attacked one who got away, killed one who didn't, was quickly caught after the fact because he was a moron who, among other things, has his whole plan, including what he would do if suspected, on his laptop hidden inside the Recycling Bin in a file titled SK Confessions
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@[Deleted User] said:
How did you play Oni without knowing about his one shot during a demon dash? It’s such an integral part of his kit. Your anecdotal evidence of “doing fine” without it is easily dismissed, since we don’t know how good of a killer player you actually are and what types of survivors you get in your games. Furthermore, who cares. Honestly, Oni is one of the easiest killers to deny of their power. He also has some of the highest skill expression in the game amongst upper tier killers thanks to the various ways to use his dash and the pressure he can create with just a single use of that power.
Alternatively, how did @CheesyBabyBoi play against Oni without knowing about his one shot Demon Dash? Even a Killer main plays Survivor once in a while and Oni isn't that rare, is he?
Plus isn't the one shot Demon Dash described in his power description (legit question, I don't know off the top of my head)
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@supersonic853 said:
Hopefully with more small tweaks happening to stuff every midchapter insidious can finally get something else added to its ability. Its the king of stealth perks apparently and i would love to move it away from camping. Hell even something like "Adds 3/4/5 seconds of undetectable and oblivious to all effects" itd make tinkerer billy with silent saw 21 seconds. Chatterer tooth pinhead 35 seconds. And other stealth examples. Might be broken but worth a shot (i doubt it since youd be adding a perk to just extend other perks and addons like lethal). A lot of killers have some form of stealth addon. But they seem pretty content with how insidious is right now i guess.
My own rework idea has been to give it a touch of Dark Devotion. Once activated, it leaves you leave your terror radius behind for XYZ seconds, while it remains in place where you activated Insidious.
The idea is to remove the biggest issue to Insidious: Insidious camping
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@NerfDHalready said:
like many others stated, corrupt is better on a few killers that doesn't need to get in a chase and down someone immediately like hag, trapper and tombstone myers. other than that, i agree lethal is basically a better corrupt since you will be in a chase right off the bat anyway
Even regular Myers can benefit if you want to pop your tier III cherry early and you need time to do so.
Can also benefit Plague and (Ironically, since Lethal is his perk) Nemesis where you don't need that early first down as much as you need time to ramp up your power.
My feeling has generally been don't use Corrupt if you can consistently get downs before it's even half over.
Random thought: Would it be worth buffing Corrupt the same way as lethal, be having it add a few seconds to gen blocking perks?
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405766#Comment_3405766
😆 I have seen a 8000 drop on Steam player count in daily numbers. I have switched to Killer more than survivor and the wait for Killer is much much longer. So yeah I think people are switching to other games or just no playing. The I play soloq and main survivor very new to the game and still not familiar to the whole game. So yeah this is a gut punch of an update. Soloq was terrible for camping and tunneling and now bleeding out. It makes the bullying so terrible you don't want to play. For every 10 matches you get a decent killer but still get killed. So what is the point if you get killed every game and unfairly at that. Yesterday I played one match where we all worked on 3 gens at once and the killer waited until they were done of course he found me, face camped me, got unhooked, took down another player, 2 gens were done, tunneled me, knocked down, hooked, player, opened the gate and took off, then just killed everyone else on the board trying to help the the other one. I mean seriously the face camping and baiting is a problem. This is what is driving people away and the healing nerfs just made it worse.
Maybe so, but my point is those individuals aren't making a big production out of it, yelling "I'm quitting and I really mean it this time for realsies, honest!" into the void with their single-digit post counts. They're just going.
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@FFirebrandd said:
Self Care should just get buffed to 41% to be honest.
Why 41% specifically, as opposed to rounding one way or the other?
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@circularcube said:
This is unfair to survivors we need to be able to heal when we don't have a med kit or someone nearby to help as that's not always the case. When you do a boon it usually helps everyone be able to heal but not anymore with the update.
The issue you call unfair is exactly why the perk was reworked as it was.
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Am I the only one whose first thought on seeing "I'm quitting" threads imagining that picture of Saitama from One Punch Man going "OK."?
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Simply losing doesn't mean you had a bad game, just means you lost one. It's entirely possible people saying their games seem fine aren't going by winrate to base their judgement on.
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@AnchorTea said:
Title. Killer is such a high-pressure experience that I am completely drained after 5 or so matches. To try to prevent this I make things manageable by having gen-regression builds but I hate how I need them to feel like I have a chance of winning. I start to feel so resentful to survivors that I'd BM sometimes. I had the urge to facecamp someone during end game.
I don't want to play a game out of hatred/spite. How can I manage this?
A few things for me.
1. I play for bloodpoints more often than not so if I'm feeling good there, or otherwise achieving whatever goal I'm after, I'm less worried about my kill rate.
2. While I do feel anxiety before playing Killer at times, those times I'm most inclined to play are after I've encountered tunnelcampers or otherwise weaker killers in my survivor games. Mostly because I'm now going in thinking "I can't possibly be worse than that"
3. Meme builds. I occasionally dabble in silly builds that aren't meant to work. My Stupid Freddy build, in which I load up the Nightmare with Infectious Fright and other TR perks, is a favorite because it's hilarious getting Infectious to work. Sometimes it's enjoyable to do something stupid for the fun of it.
Overall, I go in with a mindset of "expect to sweat, hope to screw around". As others have said if it does get frustrating I stop for a bit or go to a bot game or something.
I don't play tunnelcampy and have install had good post game experience because of it. That helps since knowing the other side appreciates the fair play is nice.
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I honestly disagree with it no longer being a Scourge Hook, as that would mean you'd get it every time you hooked a survivor for the first time which, depending on how fast you get your first down(s) means wasted perk tokens.
As already noted, for all that Scourge Hook RNG can screw you, having it tied to a Scourge Hook potentially gives you more control over PR's use. After all, as a Scourge Hook PR doesn't activate the first time you hook a Survivor. It activates the first time you hook a Survivor on a Scourge Hook.
Got a strong start? Use a normal hook and save their second Hook for the perk. Need some early regression? Scourge Hook 'em right away.
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@IWasLrft2Die said:
A goofy doctor build
Fearmonger, iron maiden, trail of torment, and dark devotion. You are hidden a lot and sneak up on people a little it's not a great build but a funny build sometimes. Plus, getting to find survivors hiding trying to avoid your shocks is also fun. Can confuse survivors a lot
Instead of Trail maybe something like Hysteria or even Deathbound if you want to be goofy with it. They way you can use Static Blast, too.
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@icedrake402 said:
Small Game, Inner Healing, Clairvoyance, Overzealous. AKA, "how much stuff can we get to trigger off of one totem"? One of those goofy ideas that works a lot better than you'd think it does.
Open-Handed, Kindred, Bond, Dark Sense. Take every distance-based aura reading perk, then extend that range. Another one that I tried as a "Huh, what happens if--" idea, and has now become one of my mainstay builds.
Does Open Handed affect Dark Sense? Does it make Dark Sense trigger sooner than it would otherwise?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Title.
I want to see what gimmick/meme builds people use (if they even use them), so send me your best (and worst) gimmick/meme builds you have.
Their effectiveness can range from "wow, this is really good" to "worse than dog-crap on a stick", it does not matter to me, just send 'em.
My "Stupid Freddy Build"
The Nightmare with Infectious Fright, Distressing, Dark Devotion, and Monitor & Abuse. Addons and Offerings dealer's choice.
It's dumb since Freddy's whole thing is basically negating his own Terror Radius, but I love getting Infectious Fright to actually work on him.
A couple more serious builds:
Artist w/ Surveillance, Hex: Ruin, Oppression, Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance. No preference for Addons or Offerings.
The premise is generating regression from a distance, tracking which gens are being worked on, and utilizing Artist's ability to harass generators from almost anywhere. Oppression is there for when Ruin inevitably goes down. Given the changes coming to Pain Res I'm contemplating swapping it or Oppression with Eruption.
Doctor w/ Dark Devotion and Hexes Pentimento, Plaything, and Retribution and at least one Discipline Addon.
Five words: Static Blast hits Oblivious Survivors. The Discipline addon is there for its "Red Stain on maddened Survivors" effect, which essentially removes a big weak point of Oblivious, the fact the can see the stain. Dark Devotion is mostly a flex perk here. Static Blast will come from the Obsession's terror radius when used.
I'm also generally fond of unconventional stealth builds but I don't recall them in detail offhand and I can't hop onto the game to check right now. That said they're generally a mix of Undetectable and/or Oblivious perks with particular addons.
Mastermind with Bullhorn (Survivors become Oblivious after spraying) and (optionally) the Iridescent Uroboros Vial (Survivors start infected)
Legion with Susie's Mixtape. The extended Feral Frenzy detection range can be utilized even while Undetectable (still does not effect Oblivious survivors)
Huntress with Wooden Fox (become Undetectable after reloading). The trick here is that, while Undetectable doesn't remove her lullaby, the lullaby gives no indication of distance. On top of that the addon has no cooldown so you can go undetectable basically at will. This means you don't necessarily need any Undetectable or Oblivious perks.
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While subjective as all hell, a fair game for me boils down to "A game I don't mind losing."
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@jesterkind said:
While I am interested in talking about perks and their relative viability, I want to talk a little bit (or... a lot) about the purpose and theory behind slowdown in this game first, so indulge me.
Non-generator perks and killer-specific slowdown is something that I'll address towards the bottom of this post, after I've gone through every generator-specific perk and after I've laid the groundwork for the lens through which I view slowdown in this game- and by extension, the lens which is most relevant to this post. That groundwork has everything to do with what I'll call "natural" slowdown, just for the sake of having something to call it.
If you've been in this community for a while, and you've either witnessed or participated in conversations about balance - especially conversations about generator balance in particular - you've likely heard the sentiment that "a killer's time is four times as valuable as a survivor's time", or the shorter "One killer second is worth four survivor seconds". This is a perfectly useful framing, it has some helpful applications and some proper contexts to use it in, but is badly misused by the community as a whole. The problem with treating this concept as a universal, inherent truth about killer gameplay that must be kept in mind at all moments of any match and in any conversation about balance, is... well, it's not universally, inherently true all the time, is it? It's only true when there are four survivors up and able to be repairing generators.
This is where the concept of natural slowdown comes into the equation. Let's assume for a moment that we've just started a match, and we're in the scenario where all four survivors are up and able to be doing generators; the kind of scenario where the idea of the time differential applies most. Once we've finished our first chase and got that survivor up on the hook, we've disabled that survivor from being able to contribute to the time pressure on us- and more importantly, whichever survivor peels off is also removed from the generator efficiency we're working against, resulting in a flat, immediate -50% penalty to that efficiency.
In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to say that our job as a killer is to alter the "four seconds to our one second" concept as much as we possibly can, at least in the short term. Long term, our goal and job is obviously to kill the survivors, but the minute to minute gameplay is mostly centred around disabling as many survivors at once as we can, and preventing generators from being done. This natural slowdown is potent, more potent than any perk, but it's temporary; even assuming time to heal, as soon as the save is finished, there's a short timer before survivors are back on generators again.
So, ideally, what we want is to have one on a hook, one going for a save, and one already in chase. That way, for that short period, only one survivor even can be working on generators and we're pretty likely to start that period over again when the chase ends, value that far outstrips the majority of slowdown perks in the game. Through this lens, I think it's fair to say that the purpose of slowdown perks is to give you more of a window to generate the kind of pressure that comes from natural slowdown, not to be the pressure preventing survivors from doing generators all on its own. This obviously takes a lot of expectations off any specific perk, and allows us to consider them in a wider context than having to regress a ton of generator seconds all on their own; you don't need them to do that, you need your build to shorten chases and at least partially combat any extra efficiency that survivor builds give them.
(Admittedly, survivors currently have access to way too much efficiency with stuff like toolboxes and Brand New Parts, but that's a separate issue.)
With that in mind, we'll get to the promised breakdown on what all slowdown perks are available to us. I'm only going to look at slowdown perks which interact with generators specifically, with notes about other forms of slowdown at the bottom, but I did take the liberty of including two perks I'd personally sooner class as information perks just for the sake of being thorough. Our perks will be broken into four categories, to better understand their application and what killers/addons/other perks they might synergise best with- remember that I am coming from the perspective of crafting full builds that synergise both with each component perk and with the killer power you're working with, not from the perspective of any of these perks being super impactful slowdown that reliably works across all killers in all contexts.
Rate of Regression.
Our first category is perks that primarily centre around having generators drain their charges, either by offering faster regression speeds or through getting generators to start regressing (without an instant regression explosion) without the need for a kick. Generally, these are the weakest slowdown perks that you can bring, but perhaps you can experiment with combinations to unlock greater potential than there might seem to be at first blush.
Call of Brine: Personally, I wouldn't consider this a regression perk anymore, but for the sake of thoroughness I included it here. When kicking a generator, for sixty seconds that generator is marked, and two effects apply: 25% faster regression while untouched, and loud noise notifications on every good skill check completed while it is being worked on. Decent information, minimal regression, could certainly work in the right build.
Hex: Ruin: I'll be blunt, this perk is pretty useless. Everything else on this list has some application, but the base rate of regression just isn't fast enough for this not to be a detriment. Still: While the hex stands, generators start regressing whenever they aren't actively being repaired, and the hex cleanses itself when someone dies. Perhaps you can come up with some way of using this, and if so, I'd love to hear it.
Oppression: When kicking a generator, up to three other generators start regressing as well. If a survivor is working on a chosen generator, they're faced with a difficult skill check. This perk's biggest limiting factor is a whopping 80 second cooldown, making it hard to use effectively, but it's there if you can figure something out. Pwease, BHVR, lower that cooldown?
Overcharge: With the upcoming nerf, this perk is going to be somewhat difficult to use. When you kick a generator, the rate of regression starts slower but ramps up to faster than normal over time, and a survivor that touches the generator must succeed a difficult skill check or face more instant regression than a normal failed skillcheck. Risky and difficult to use, but an option.
Generator Blocking.
Next up is simply blocking the generator outright. If you can't get it to drain faster, the next best step is to simply prevent a survivor from being able to progress it, right? These perks tend to swing between really simple and strong, and a little more complex and difficult to use, but they all can be used in at least some builds with a little work.
Corrupt Intervention: A classic and one of the strongest on this list in any category, Corrupt will work for almost every killer pretty reliably. For two minutes at the start of the game, the generators furthest from where you spawn will be blocked. This effect is cancelled early if you get a down within two minutes, but at that point the perk has already done what it's supposed to in pushing survivors to actually look for generators instead of immediately sitting on the ones adjacent to their spawn. Very solid, very usable, but comes with the downside of being a dead perk slot after the beginning of the match.
Dead Man's Switch: Often paired with Pain Resonance, this perk does have some application on its own or with other builds, too. After getting a hook, the perk activates for thirty seconds. Anyone who lets go of a generator within those thirty seconds blocks that generator for the remainder of the perk's timer. Relatively simple, but the timer is a big restricting element; you want to use this, in my opinion, on mobile killers like Wraith and Blight or on ranged-pressure killers like Artist and Doctor, who can interrupt generators with as much of that timer remaining as possible.
Deadlock: As simple as you can get, when a generator is finished, the generator with the next most progress is blocked for thirty seconds. Reliable background slowdown that prevents generator completion, it's not going to change the world but it'll do what you want it to. It has the positive of working basically the same on every single killer and on every single map, at the cost of not being that impactful; a good tradeoff, in my opinion.
Grim Embrace: A neat perk in theory, this one does have some unfortunate drawbacks. Once you've hooked every survivor once, all generators are blocked for 40 seconds and the Obsession's aura is revealed to you for a handful of seconds. This perk's biggest limiting factor, beyond it being rather binary in that it does all or nothing, is that survivors can absolutely stealth out the duration and only the Obsession has their aura revealed to combat this. BHVR, if you're out there, please consider having this perk reveal all auras?
Merciless Storm: Current bugs notwithstanding, this perk is of moderate use. When a generator hits 90% completion, it spawns repeated skillchecks, and if any of those checks are missed, the generator blocks for 20 seconds. Most survivors won't miss those skillchecks without prompting at this point, but if you've got some way of knowing when a generator is near completion and the ability to interrupt it, you can reliably push them off it. Not bad, but not amazing either.
Thrilling Tremors: The other perk on this list that I would personally classify as more of an information perk, this perk will block all generators not currently being worked on for 16 seconds, when you pick up a survivor. It then goes on cooldown, so that does limit its use, but it has some moderately useful information and moderately impactful slowdown, so it's all around an okay pick.
Instant Regression.
Next, we'll take a look at perks that immediately remove a certain percentage of generator progress when they activate. A lot of variance in quality here, but there's bound to be something that'll work for your specific killer and build.
Eruption: Despite popular opinion that this perk is dead and buried, it remains a very solid pick with the right application. Kicking a generator marks it with Eruption, and getting a down through any means will cause every marked generator to immediately lose 10% total progress. If someone's working on the generator when it's hit, they'll scream and reveal their aura for 10 seconds, which is a nice bonus. This perk shines best on mobile killers that can lessen the time investment of kicking multiple generators, thus causing more generators to lose progress than survivors can immediately start repairing again. My personal favourite pick is Wraith, but multiple should work.
Hex: Huntress Lullaby: I debated whether or not to put this one on here, but it does have an extra regression penalty for its failed skillchecks, so. If a survivor misses a skillcheck, that generator (or heal progress, as a nice bonus) loses an extra 6% progression compared to normal. Additionally, every hook you get will make skillchecks harder to hit by shortening their audio cue, until they're silent at five stacks. This all, of course, only works while the hex is still standing. A bit of a mixed bag, often cleansed before it does anything, but... well, it's an option!
Jolt: Straightforward as can be. Get a down with a basic attack, every generator within a certain radius instantly loses 8% progress. It's map dependant, since some maps will have multiple generators clustered within that radius at any given time and some stand a good chance of having zero close enough, but a generally reliable pick all the same.
Pop! Goes The Weasel: After getting a hook, you have 45 seconds to kick a generator and instantly delete 20% of its current progress. This differs from total, in that a generator has to have more progress for this to really do much, but it can absolutely save you a generator that's about to be completed if you're lucky. Not as reliable as it used to be by a long shot, but pairs decently with other perks and gains more potency the longer the trial goes on.
Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance: With its upcoming nerf to give it four total uses for 25% total progress each, this perk is a little up in the air right now. Hypothetically, it should be a buff for the first few hooks and a flat buff all around if you play 'nice' and mix hooks, but the hook spawn RNG remains an issue. It's hard to say how good this is going to be, but it certainly won't be the weakest on this list by a long shot, even within this category.
Unnerving Presence: This... technically counts, I think? Missed skillchecks are a form of regression, and while in your terror radius, survivors will have smaller skillchecks that spawn more frequently. This isn't a very good perk for a variety of reasons, but I figured it was best to include it for completion's sake. It has some limited applications in very specific builds, so I'm sure some can use it to good effect.
Generator Slowdown.
Finally, we have the category of perks that aim to make the repair action itself slower. These perks tend to be harder to use and maintain, but can be some of the most impactful in the game under the right circumstances. They tend to be riskier, but some of them at least are worth experimenting with if you're willing to dedicate a lot of your build and playstyle to them.
Dying Light: Starting out with a weak perk, here. This perk gains tokens every time you hook a survivor that isn't the Obsession, and incurs a global slowdown towards healing, repairing, and sabotaging that stacks higher with each token. It starts small and doesn't ramp up that quickly, and the Obsession gets a flat 33% speed bonus to healing and unhooking from the start, so I wouldn't personally consider this worth running, but again: it's an option.
Hex: Pentimento: This perk has the potential to be the most impactful slowdown in the game, more or less. Whenever a totem is broken, you can 'resurrect' it as a Pentimento totem, granting you stacking slowdown for actions depending on how many totems are up; the first two are repair and healing, respectively, and so they're the most important. A global 30% slowdown is nothing to sneeze at, and this perk pairs well with sources that force survivors towards interacting with totems, as well as Shattered Hope should they bring boons. It has a habit of devouring your whole build towards supporting it, but the reward can absolutely be worth it.
Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain: If you're willing to cycle the survivors you're hooking, this perk can provide a fairly reasonable 16% slowdown to any survivor who is healed after being unhooked from a white hook, which stacks nicely with other affected survivors and other sources of slowdown. A little micro-managey at times, but a perfectly serviceable pick.
Thanataphobia: The last perk on our list is admittedly not very good. If you're playing Plague specifically, you can get the full 30%-ish slowdown, but realistically one survivor will remain healed, and that brings the slowdown all the way back down to only 6%. Hard to use, but can pair with other sources relatively well. Mixed bag, really.
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And with that, the list of all generator slowdown perks and how viable they may be is completed. In conclusion, I think it's safe to say that somewhere in this list, there'll be something that you can pair with other perks and your killer's power to give you enough of a window to generate natural pressure-- and remember, there are other sources that you can use here. Healing slowdown offers you either survivors wasting time off generators or survivors that are vulnerable to one hit downs (+ easier to track), killer-specific slowdown can help generators regress just that little bit more or at least provide you more time to start getting more hooks, and even totem slowdown can be useful in the right builds and with the right application.
If I had to end this with one specific take, I think it's that people should be more receptive to mixing tactics, rather than putting all their eggs into specifically regression. You can get good slowdown from just chase perks if you're skilled enough- and while that's not a bar I would hold the average player to, it does hint that perhaps even the average player could get good results from a properly tailored build that isn't stacking (or even just relying on) individually potent regression perks.
Hopefully this helps elucidate an outlook towards the game that isn't entirely doom-and-gloom about what all is available to killer players, and perhaps someone could get some inspiration for a new build from it. Either way, thanks for reading, and good luck out there in the fog! :3
I've used Hex: Ruin, Pain Res, and Oppression on Artist alongside Surveillance for a long distance regression build. The idea is to take advantage of Artist's ability to harass gens from almost anywhere and use that to locate survivors. Oppression is for when Ruin inevitably goes down, whether by cleanse or death. Though I've been contemplating swapping with Eruption.
On that note, I'd also add Eruption as a viable choice on M2 killers who down with their powers, as it does for them what Jolt does for M1s, turn a down into potential regression. The more mobile among them can also benefit from the aura info.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Why do I get a constant feeling of deja vu when reading these forms.
Because that perk has seen more use since its buff last year?
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400576#Comment_3400576
For Legion you could run Tinkerer or Trail of Torment to get undetectable
Tinkerer for sure. Also Dark Devotion. The thing with Trail is you can't maintain Undetectable since it's lost after you hit someone and Legion's thing is chaining hits together, so you don't get the Frenzy while Undetectable value.
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If you want some unconventional options, mix the following Killer/Addon combos with the Undetectable/Oblivious perks of your choosing:
Hillbilly w/ Apex Muffler (Survivors who can't hear your Terror Radius also can't hear your chainsaw) (enjoy a compilation of Silent Billy jump scares)
Mastermind w/ Bullhorn (Survivors who cleanse become Oblivious); optional: Iridescent Ouroboros Vial (Survivors start infected and become Exposed on full infection)
Legion w/ Susie's Mixtape (Extended Freak Frenzy detection range) the mixtape offers Frenzy detection while Legion is Undetectable, but still doesn't work on Oblivious survivors. The tricky part is Legion has no way to make themselves Undetectable.
I also have the following on Doctor (yes, Doctor)
Discipline (Maddened Survivors see the red stain on themselves while in chase)
Dark Devotion, Hex: Plaything, Hex: Retribution, Hex: Pentimento
Pro-Tip: Your Terror Radius dictates the range of Static Blast, not its effectiveness. In other words, Static Blast hits Oblivious survivors.
I've actually managed gen grabs off this.
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@TheycallmeLix said:
Didn’t people say that she can blink 4-5x in the PTB when Nurse had an add-on rework? Just had a game against her and luckily she wasn’t that good, but it really shouldn’t be in the game. ‘Jenner’s Last Breath’ should definitely be looked into and get this bug exploit fixed ASAP!
I thought she could do 4x5 Blinks because of her add-on rework. The add-on that pops her back where she started.
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@Hannacia said:
It should not be a scourge hook anymore. Many times i've lost value of scourge hook simply due to the hook placements. So i probably won't be using it.
I'm inclined to disagree with this, since that would mean the first four unique hooks period will proc it. This could cost it early game value depending on how far along a given gen is.
As a Scourge Hook you have a bit more control over when it procs, RNG placement aside.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392420#Comment_3392420
Okay.
You also don't have to travel to kick the gen and it applies instantly.
But yes, I understand. You must run 4 gen regression perks or else you insta-lose as Killer.
It's also 25% regression guaranteed to hit the most progressed generator, vs Pop where you could be using it in the wrong place and not know until it's too late, Jolt, where you might be in the wrong place at the wrong time, or Eruption, which the gen might be completed before you get your down.
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My understanding is that how much or little your MMR changes from a Kill or Escape depends on your MMR relative to your opponent(s). If you're a low-MMR survivor who dies to a high-MMR killer, you won't lose much and that won't gain much. Vice-versa, if a low-MMR Killer beats a high-MMR survivor, the killer will set a bigger than normal increase and the survivor a bigger than normal decrease.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
Why does this achievement require the survivor to open the exit gate?
Are 20 escapes on RPD not enough, in and of itself?
This might be the single worst achievement.
No one wants to play this map. You get players disconnecting while the game loads, if not killing themself on first hook or disconnecting the moment they get downed.
Needing to open the exit gate yourself is just icing on the cake.
Just for fun, a youtuber actively seeking the achievement as it's literally the only one he hasn't done
https://youtu.be/4fMW9p5NFt0 -
@TheycallmeLix said:
Honestly, the meta shake up (6.1) was not that bad compared to this one. I'm really looking forward Killers getting easy 4K's every match cuz this game is gonna become M1 simulator and predrop every game. Why did you even have to touch the meta.. BHVR always does things no one asked for and it's so uncalled for to change all of our favorite perks. I know I'm not gonna play this boring game again if they do change the meta and all my friends agreed to. Stop changing our playstyle and let the perks just be. And why wasn't this change earlier, it should have been looked into couple of years ago. Anyone else not gonna play much DBD when the changes come live?
Is anyone gonna play DBD when this update comes to live server?
I don't feel any particularly strong reason to play more or less than before.
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Territorial Imperative: Make it a Scourge Hook. It shows auras of Survivors near Scourge Hooks as well as in the basement and, keeping with the theme of territory, you can gain tokens (perhaps one for each unique survivor hooked) that lets you turn any normal hook into a Scourge Hook, disabling another, randomly selected Scourge Hook in the process. Basically along with its existing effect you get a chance to deal with the biggest issue is Scourge Hooks: RNG of placement.
Hex: Huntress's Lullaby: Flip the token system and give it Thrill of the Hunt rules. You start with 5 tokens/silent skill checks. If the Hex itself is cleansed you lose the perk entirely as normal. If any other totem is cleansed, lose a token. Make it an early game perk over a ramp up perk, while the Thrill rule keeps it manageable for newer players to mitigate or avoid the same kind of issues OG Ruin had
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@Reinami said:
You forgot about perks like inner healing, autodidact (which is actually going to be good now), second wind, and other ways to heal yourself that aren't just "healing" yourself.
I've actually been thinking of reincorporating Autodidact into my heal build.
Currently it's Renewal, Desperate Measures, Empathy, Flex.
I may swap out Empathy for Empathic Connection, to get that extra 10% heal speed
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
Welp the numbers are Wrong! Cmon guys give us some compensation. If pain resonance numbers were 15/20/25% then it would be fine.
Hell, I'd accept 25% if current progress a la Pop, since a use of Pain Res is guaranteed to hit the farthest along gen no matter what.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385397#Comment_3385397
Eruption/CoB can still be solid with Plague. One thing I'd recommend against is Thana. A lot of newer Plagues go for it, but survivors are going to cleanse if you're good at Plague, and then you don't get much value out of it.
That's part of why I thought of Gift of Pain. It nicely enhances the catch-22 of Plague's power. Stay sick and one-shottable or heal, risk her getting her power and give yourself slowdown in the process.
I'm no Plague main, but I had fun mixing that with Black Incense so staying injured was also more dangerous.
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@[Deleted User] said:
For Plague specifically, Corrupt will be better. The first thing you want to do is puke on the open gens unless you spot someone to puke on. Lethal isn't as good for Plague.
The big thing with Plague's early game is spreading the infection. I usually commit to the second or third infected player, but not the first. You'll eventually get a feel for it. Sometimes you can go for a quick infection down if the first player is really out of position. Takes time to develop that sense.
Take a chase perk or two. Bamboozle really helps because there are going to be stretches when you have to be an M1 killer. Brutal can also be good for zoning.
I'd go for scourge hooks or gen kick perks for regression instead of regression that procs on basic attacks. Many of your downs will come from special attacks i.e. Corrupt Purge.
Learn the trajectory of your Corrupt Purge and how to hit your skill shots with it. It turns Plague from a B tier killer to an A+ tier killer when you can hit crazy Corrupt Purge shots. Focus on getting good with Corrupt Purge and try out different hole shots, curves, angles and whatnot.
Edit: Also, change your aim logic depending on which power you have. Be accurate and hit steady streams on Vile Purge. Don't fling it around unless you're just trying to infect and move on. With Corrupt Purge, go for a wide arc in open areas but go for accuracy when you need to thread the needle through a window or something.
Eruption might be of use here. It gives you potential regression from downs regardless of how you get them.
A video I watched on facing organized groups recommended Corrupt, Deadlock, Call of Brine, and Eruption. Though, full disclosure , this was made prior to Eruption's loss of Incapacitate. Nonetheless I think it's still valid since I think the intent was more to have a regression perk that incentivizes use of you power.
Could also go Gift of Pain since it turns cleansing into a slowdown.
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@ironblade said:
Whenever I look at posts, I see so many accounts banned. I fear that whenever I comment or post here or share my thoughts, I immediately think about not getting my account banned.
Be courteous, don't post excessively negatively, and otherwise don't go out of your way to be a jerk, and you're unlikely to see a ban.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383686#Comment_3383686
I literally said that.
And I added to it by adding detail to the current specific exception.
That and I missed the mention of Billy.
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@Seraphor said:
Nerfing solely because of pick doesn't make sense, sure. You need to look at the whole picture, and see why certain perks are overpowered or otherwise problematic, but usually pick rate correlates with that. After all, the most busted things get used the most.
Circle of Healing is an example where pick rate does more or less reflect the issues with the perk, while the Billy changes appear to be made purely to flatten the add-on use chart, despite not being very problematic.
Dead Hard is a case that's sort of middle ground. Yes it's used more frequently because it's effective, but it's also used frequently because it's interactive and fun, and offers greater freedom for the survivor compared to more contextual exhaustion perks like Lithe. However, it's also problematic because it's far too impactful against certain killers and certain level of killer player, much like Eruption was.
This isn't absolute though, as evidenced by the Billy Engravings nerf. They're the most frequently used addons in a killer that, himself, doesn't see a lot of play and most who do play him generally agree the Engravings are the most fun addons to use and/or a genuine necessity.
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@scxrletghxst said:
Please for the Love of God.
Y'all literally kill your own game by listening to them who just whine about survivor perks. Dead hard will basically just be called "Dead" now and CoH will now basically be just a boon which will be useless. The game already feels unfair due to Killers literally having the advantage, Dead Hard not even activating even while spamming the button and teammates being useless and not even healing you because they are too busy crouching around in bushes.
If y'all release this god awful patch I will want my money back. In no way shape or form will I continue to play the game if y'all release this patch. Keep the bloodweb thing but everything else? Please no. A little tip: Instead of nerfing the ######### out of survivor touch killers hex totems instead. NOED, Devour Hope and so on. ######### give them such an advantage you can't counter because they partol their ######### totems. On God I hope this is a joke.
STOP LISTENING TO KILLER MAINS!!!!
... because posts like this are far more reasonable.
OP can want their money back all they want, they ain't gonna get it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Pain Res and CoH were too far imo.
Yeah. Honestly I think CoH could have been nerfed more simply by changing it to "it only effects the last gen kicked" so you can't have multiple gens regressing at top speed.
@Marik1987 said:
Just give killers 6 Scourge Hooks to increase their chances of actually getting the 4 hooks OR increase the numbers to 25%.
I like this idea personally. At least that way by the time you've used it up you've either got 2 survivors dead, 3 on death hook, or anything in between.
@Zokenay said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380199#Comment_3380199
That would have killed the perk just as well.
Current progression is just bad, thats why Pop rarely ever gets used, and why Eruption was changed back to total rather than current progress.
I think current progress might be better with Pain Res in particular than others. Since it always affects the farthest along gen you'll always get max possible value out of it, however much or little that may be.
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Might be fine for Survivors since they're just skins, but Killers' addons are far more varied and would be much harder to do that with.
Offerings could probably work either way, though and perks already do, up to a point.
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I only play Billy on occasion and, when I do, I use Stealth Drift Billy (to use a description last page) because my niche is weird stealth builds and stealth Billy is great for that.
That said, while I don't use the Engravings myself, the impression I'm getting is the changes to Engravings are basically pointless. They aren't changing anything actively problematic (like the Blight addons mentioned) and, like the recent scream change, seem to be trying to fix what ain't broke by nerfing something that seems to be one of the main incentives to even play Billy, going by what's been said.
If this Engravings nerf camev with a more general addon pass that might be one thing, but this focus on a player favorite that few were complaining about and on an infrequently played killer besides seems like terrible devving.
I do agree that steps should probably be taken to make Billy more easily accessible/desirable for beginners, if for no other reason than because he's a base game killer and new players already have Nurse for a mechanical challenge. If anything I worry the overheat changes will put a damper on that since map traversal is the main use new Billies use for their chainsaw while they learn it and long sprints are where the most overheat will now go to.
None of that, however, is really relevant to the issue of Engravings being a bad nerf.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380936#Comment_3380936
I play usually 2 man or solo. I'm not afraid to play injured. I know when its time to heal and when it isnt. I'm not begging for heals everytime i get injured. I think survivors will need to adapt not being always healthy and i think its good. The amount of times i see people waste time healing instead of doing gens when its needed is the reason why survivors also lose.
Personally i find medkits too powerful and CoH is...something the game never needed. The amount of times i've gotten out due to my powerful medkit i can't even count.
Also you arent thinking of the perks that help survivors heal faster. You will still have we'll make it, which is very powerful. Youll have botany to help faster heals. Theres many perks to help survivors to heal faster, but you don't think of these.
These nerfs are to CHANGE the stale meta both killers and survivors have. For us to use and try DIFFERENT builds and perks.
Also Inner Healing and Renewal, which insta-heal you long as you meet the prerequisites.
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My own idea for COB was much simpler: It only effects the last gen you kick.
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@FirstDay said:
Hey everyone, I hope you all are doing well.
As the title suggests, I have killer anxiety before I even click "Play".
I haven't played killer since a little before the ruin nerf was announced and it took me a while to fully move myself away from killer. I stopped playing killer because at the time, I thought it was becoming more and more difficult to just legitimately play casually as killer. Ever since then, I decided to move strictly over to survivor. Yet, I found myself wanting to play killer still VERY much. It's just a more fulfilling role in my honest opinion and it felt better to play both roles like I used to.
But I'm a survivor main now and every time I boot the game up, I think about trying killer again. I WANT to play killer.
I think what a lot of this really stems down too is that with the current meta in dbd and the countless problems within it, I feel I wouldn't have any fun with killer. I play survivor completely as a solo que and I can see just how miserable it can be for both sides. Yet, I feel like it's more unforgiving for killer.
I think about all the things that are wrong with killer right now and it just gives me anxiety when I'm really close to giving in and just playing that role. I have sat at the menu for ages now contemplating whether or not today is the day I finally just put everything aside and play it. But I'm anxious to just do it.
Can anyone help me get over this anxiety? Thanks.
One thing I've found has helped is have a reason to want to play killer. I often think of playing a Killer match but once I'm in game the mood fades. The last few times I played killer games is because I had a build idea I wanted to try, either my Oblivious Doctor or Totem Defense Skull Merchant. I also tend to play during BP incentives when they pop up since they usually mean even a bad game can still work out for me.
I think @Beatricks has a good idea, too. Mine probably ties into it. Rather than focus on winning the game outright I'm trying to figure out if my builds work as intended or if I need to tweak anything.
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@Laurie268 said:
They really think people will still play survivor after these changes lmao. Killrate will rise to 80%+ and good killers will reach a killrate of nearly 100%.
There’s nothing fun in this game left for survivors to enjoy and I will be uninstalling when the update hits too. Most people won’t put up with being a punching bag for a killer that finally gets to experience their power trip fantasy
You really think people won't play Survivor?
People will whinge and moan about the game even as they continue to play it. They'll get used to it and focus their whinging and moaning on the next thing BHVR does.
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@Jarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379272#Comment_3379272
As far as I'm reading it - yes.
If you use it but the killer misses/or did it by accident but get your exhaustion back, you can use it again. If it protects you from a hit, you need to unhook someone to re-activate it.
Thank you.
I wonder, given We're Gonna Live Forever is also a David perk, if adding "Protection Hit" to ways to activate it would be worthwhile
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One point of clarification: Am I correct to assume that, since it says Dead Hard deactivates if it protects you from damage, you don't lose the chance to use it if you flub it (exhaustion aside)?