Xernoton
Xernoton
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Deadlock. Always Deadlock. You can't really ignore it and it works even when the killer is afk.
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Legion is a bit of a difficult case. Small buffs can bring their power up so much that they become unbearable to play against. So making these 3 addons base kit is probably not a good idea. Maybe they could do some fine tuning to the base power but overall Legion's balance is just too fickle to make any huge changes now.
Myers unfortunately hasn't aged very well. He is a remnant of a very different game, that feels forgotten. A complete rework of his power probably wouldn't be the best idea. After all, they did a pretty good job in capturing Myers' abilities.
If I recall correctly Freddy was anounced to get a rework at some point. In the mean time they at least gave 2 of his addons a rework and actually made them pretty useful.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770321#Comment_3770321
If you treat him like a Pseudo Knight and corral people, it's not so bad. You can at least get easy single health states.
I've been finding that Trapper thrives off being efficient. Chasing survivors in areas you already want to trap is the way to go. I find it best to let Trappers friend do their own thing and I just help out if I feel it's necessary
I might try that. So far, I haven't had the best experience with him. Playing against a Trapper was also pretty easy for the most part (I remember one game where someone would walk into a trap every 10 seconds though).
Thanks for the tip.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770530#Comment_3770530
have you seen some of 2vs8 loop design in the game? Some of setup are so strong for survivor that you can loop killer for like multiple gens… in a 1vs1.
an advantage that nurse has over other killers is that she doesn't care about loop design in 2vs8. She doesn't need to stick with other killers to be relevant. She is just be a lone-gunner killer that consistently downs people.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770369#Comment_3770369
escapist is really strong even vs nurse. the sprint burst has 20 second cooldown and allows survivor to just pre-run constantly. if a survivor in chase, you can stay out of radius of scout and as soon you enter radius as nurse is blinking, you can sprint burst mid-chase.
I'd say game mode is relatively balanced. Maybe it leans a little bit more into survivor if all 8 survivor are really good but with current matchmaking and huge bloodpoint incentives, you are getting very random teammates…. lots of which not experienced. as a result, it may look like killer is stronger. the experience of survivor likely plays biggest role at the moment. killer can chase weak links in 2vs8 mode and ignore the strong-links. when everyone is strong link, the game probably more skewed towards survivor.
Sorry, for some reason the forum doesn't want me to answer 2 comments in one post.
Escapist is definitely the strongest tool the survivors have against a Nurse but with 3 blinks it hardly matters. With 2 blinks and a bit of luck it might get you out of a pickle. The point is, that escapist is significantly stronger against the other killers in this game mode (maybe except Wraith, who struggles the most with all these pallets).
I wouldn't necessarily say that the game mode is balanced. I think it's more that both sides have some things that are ridiculously strong and these kind of balance each other. However, this balance approach can also backfire when it's 2 weaker killers or too few of one survivor class. Overall, it's chaotic fun though, which matters the most in my opinion.
The part about 8 strong survivors is definitely true. That's a pretty scary thought to be honest. I imagine it would look a bit like old DBD minus insta blinds and pallet vacuums.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770504#Comment_3770504
Nurse isn’t the best killer in the game, for the vast majority of the player base. This is why having tier lists based off of the top 0.00001% of players , is dangerous and misleading to this game.
This is why there should be tier lists for the various MMR brackets, so people can show that at most of the MMR levels, Nurse isn’t anywhere close to overperforming at all.
Nurse didn’t receive the “strongest buffs”, because the much larger 2v8 maps, are a giant nerf to Nurse. And the “buffs” given to Nurse for 2v8, don’t even properly compensate her for the much larger maps.
It’s very sad that so few people understand how map changes can be buffs or nerfs for certain killers. It’s like when the maps changed to have way less low-walled loops, and have much more high-walled clutter… it was a huge nerf to Huntress, which is why she was later buffed. But a bunch of people complained, because they didn’t understand at all why she was buffed.
Can we stop pretending like Nurse is so incredibly hard? I play her once in a blue moon and I do pretty well. In my last game of Nurse, I lost 4 gens to even get the blink distance right again and guess what, I still won (granted, it was close and I had a favorable gen spread). Overall, Nurse really isn't that hard to play. She is hard to master but that isn't necessary to outperform all other killers.
She even has a brown addon that tells her where to blink and the green addon for extended lunges (can't remember the name and I'm too lazy to look it up), makes her a save bet.
In 2v8 you don't have the brown addon to show you where you blink but it's not that hard to get a feeling for this. It may take a few hours but honestly what killer doesn't? At the end of the day, she can move through walls and obstacles. As long as you have a line of sight there really isn't much a survivor can do against you and if you haven't then you still have a second blink to readjust.
The "Nurse is hard" argument is way overblown when you consider how little you need to do right for how much of a payoff.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770490#Comment_3770490
People can express their views in as much or little detail as they’d like here. Not everyone is going to produce a dissertation-length comment to legitimate their opinion, nor is that a requirement for participation in this forum. Frankly, I don’t believe you give a lump about OP’s opinion but I’ll play along. So if you felt Elodie was vague why didn’t you ask them to clarify? Or offer more of their opinion? All you did was come here, interject yourself into an argument to defend Radianthero, and attack someone else while doing it. You haven’t contributed anything relevant to OP’s initial topic.
Read my posts again. I did not attack anyone. I clarified that someone made a fuss over nothing. These are 2 very different things. OP#s opinion also hasn't been up for debate initially. The only reason we are talking about that is because you accused me of trying to silence someone, which I did not. This goes against my core believes.
By the way you accuse me here, it seems more like you are attacking me than anything else. I interjected because someone completely misunerstood a post and went on a little rant over it (maybe "rant" is a bit strong but you get my point). That part is correct and I will not apologise for it. It is as much my right to do so as it is yours and you used yours to interjected in an exchange that did not concern you either.
Ironically you are the one who keeps this whole drama up, when @Valuetown read my post, gave their thoughts about it and we came to an understanding. How is that contributing anything relevant to OP's topic? Or is it only irrelevant if someone else does it? All of this could have ended with their comment to my post and my response.
I can tell, that you are unable to look at this situation rationally, so I'll do us both a favor and end this conversation here.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770369#Comment_3770369
Soooooo, everyone is aware that all the Nurse “buffs” still makes her weaker than she was before the addon nerfs, right?????
Because allowing Nurse to equip pre-nerfed range and recharge addons, would make her way more powerful than these 2v8 “buffs”, which are mostly low rarity post-nerfed addons.
Nurse’s map traversal speed is still garbage in 2v8, and the maps are huge.
That is completely besides the point. She basically has no counterplay in chase especially with the extemded lunge and a free 3rd blink for being near the other killer as well only makes it worse considering that she has all of these effects at once, which she couldn't achieve previously because a killer only has 2 addon slots.
Also, the addon nerfs happened for a reason. She remains the strongest killer in the game and yet she is also by the killer with by far the most buffs in 2v8 and the only killer to have a "team" skill that doesn't benefits her team mate. Compare that to what they did with Trapper. Why couldn't Trapper get haste for 5 seconds and 100% extra setting speed? Why not give him aura vision when a trap is disabled? Or give him haste for that as well. Same with Wraith. Why wasn't his lunge extended? Why wasn't his breaking speed increased? Why doesn't he get more speed while cloaked to make up for bigger maps (9% doesn't cut it). Billy's insta down had to be removed from the chainsaw because that would have been too strong (according to the devs). To compensate they gave him Spiked Boots and Low Kickback Chains base kit for maps that have so much clutter on them, that you don't get to use them anyway. And on top of that he has a team skill, that is worse than his normal power.
So overall, the strongest killer in the game received the most and the strongest buffs for 2v8. Does that sound right to you? To me it doesn't.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770365#Comment_3770365
This isn’t a game; it’s a public forum where people can express, critique, and defend their ideas and opinions. If people dislike something they have every right to say that here. The response to basically shut down their critiques by saying “well if you don’t like it just ignore it” it silencing. Full stop.
We are talking about a game. If you don't like the 2v8 mode, then don't play it. That was what @radiantHero23 said and I agree with that.
Neither I, nor @radiantHero23 have said that you shouldn't voice your opinion on the game mode. What I did say however is, that @Valuetown either misunderstood his post by saying he made it sound like facts or they tried to make him look bad because they disagree. One of these 2 cases is definitely true and judging by their response, it's probably the first one.
I don't understand where you take the silencing thing from. Voicing your opinion is totally fine but other people can and will disagree. I have also told multiple people that obviously were upset over the game to take a break because sometimes you need to hear it from someone else. This has nothing to do with silencing though. It's someone else reminding you, that it's just a game and that the reason you play it is to have fun, not to be frustrated.
There is a difference in voicing critique and playing the game. You can do either without doing the other. OP probably wanted to vent more than anything else (considering they haven't responded to any posts here). If that is indeed the case, then what is wrong about doing that and taking a break from the game or game mode? You can still give your opinion but it can't hurt to take a break if you don't enjoy playing.
The whole silencing argument might work, if op had actually explained what was in their opinion wrong with the game mode but they didn't really do that. I take it they have an issue with some killers slugging but what does that have to do with killers being overpowered? And how does "2 killers overpowered ⇒ 1 killer overpowered" work? It could be 2 tier 1 Myers with a 32 metres TR and the killers would still have the upper hand against 1 survivor. But against 8, that is a different story. If anything the balance swings wildly depending on who has the better loadout (classes and killers) and who is better coordinated (similar to the normal game just way more extreme, given that 60% kill rates are BHVR's idea of balance).
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It swings wildly depending on the map, combination of killers, SWFs and KWFs (it's gonna take a while to get used to this acronym) as well as the survivor classes. It can really go either way.
I'd say, that both sides have some things that are overpowered. For example Nurse. Why did she have to be the killer to receive the most buffs? She is the strongest killer in the game anyway. There isn't much point in trying to delay her, when her lunge is that long and she can make up for any mistakes she made anyway. And 3 blinks only make this more ridiculous.
On the other hand, survivors have the scout class, that can reveal both killers almost constantly. I had a match against a Huntress and Trapper duo and we all saw them for the entire game. Needless to say, they didn't stand a chance. The escapist class is just as strong against everyone but Nurse. If a Trapper is chasing after you and you get that SB, they will almost guaranteed have to give up on that chase.
So both sides are busted and 2v8 is both balanced and unbalanced. In other words; it's pure chaos.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770324#Comment_3770324
You say @Valuetown is ‘attacking’ @radiantHero23 but I don’t see that at all. Hero’s comment was dismissive (“if you don’t like it just don’t do it”). Obviously OP knows they don’t have to play 2v8. The statement made by hero comes off as silencing tbh. Not sure why that’s something you’re resisting.
and FYI I’ve seen the slugging too. Not sure why common tactics that work would be exempt from this game mode. FWIW.For a game, the "don't like it, don't do it" argument works pretty well, don't you think? Games are supposed to be fun and if you don't have fun playing 2v8, then don't play it. You can of course criticise and suggest improvements but op didn't really do that. There was no "killers are op because…" or "please change X thing", so it wasn't constructive. It was just a pointless "killers op, game mode trash".
Also, @Valuetown focused on the fact @radiantHero23 didn't mark it as his opinion, which in this context isn't necessary (after all, they said fun is subjective themself, so it's already implied to be a matter of opinion anyway) and not really on the part you find to be dismissive. That's what I responded to.
and FYI I’ve seen the slugging too. Not sure why common tactics that work would be exempt from this game mode. FWIW.
I realise, my choice of words on that part was sub perfect. My apologies. What I meant to say is that I don't think this happens as often as @Valuetown implied.
Of course some people will slug. Some probably will proxy camp and tunnel as well, it's just that I haven't enocuntered that issue as often, so I don't think it's as prevalent. In all my games in this game mode I remember that I was slugged once because someone else was right next to me (and to be fair, it's only natural the killer would slug me there). But nothing more than that, because it's simply not necessary.
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770324#Comment_3770324
If you read the entire thread, you'd see that I said my opinion on the mode is no more valid than other people's. 👍️
I agree with that. We all are just random people who do or don't enjoy the 2v8 with different ideas on how to improve it. Good to know we're on the same page here. 👍️
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767941#Comment_3767941
The audacity of this post lol.
Fun is subjective, an opinion. To say this mode is fun in such a matter-of-fact manner while having the gall to tell OP that their opinion on the mode is no good, AND THEN saying that they should find enjoyment out of being happy for YOU because you're having fun? I mean come on lol.
Also to say that the mode isn't competitive while ignoring the surplus of killers who've now learned to slug at 3 survivors remaining to prevent hatches from spawning so completely disingenuous about the state of 2v8 it's unreal.
It's not that deep. Nobody's family is getting face camped and your loved ones aren't getting tunneled either.
What's the issue with stating your opinion? OP did the same thing. They didn't mark it as their subjective opinion either because talking about whether or not something is fun already implies that it's an opinion.
If you didn't get that, then just read a sentence further.
Playing killer with a friend is the most fun ive had in dbd in a very long time.
This is personal experience, once again implying that all of this is his opinion. The only one looking bad here is you for attacking someone that disagreed with OP, for what reason exactly? Because you disagree too and need to devalue others' opinions?
If anything that last paragraph you typed looks more like you're trying to establish a fact than anything @radiantHero23 said. Do you have any evidence to support that claim? Because in my survivor games this hasn't been an issue, so I can only assume this is your opinion. But then again, you called someone out for not stating that their position on 2v8 was subjective, so surely you wouldn't make the same mistake, right?
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768687#Comment_3768687
My M1/Legion bias is showing buy I don't understand why people are sleeping on The Crapper.
He has all his normal issues, but people do be sleeping on the bandaid/duct tape solution that is Haste....and 150% for both killers, at that. All my problems have melted since I started playing Trapper.
Yeah but that's only active for 3 seconds and you have to stay still to place a trap. The range of the team skill also isn't that big. 16 metres is just enough if both are chasing the same survivor but considering how fast the gens get done, you can't always do that. He isn't horrible but on his own, he is just not good enough to end chases quickly when survivors get a SB and 50 pallets.
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I have noticed that too. I played a few games of survivor in that mode and it's weird how many times all will be healthy but nobody is on gens. For chase times, it seems that either they are literal gods at the game and can loop 10 Nurses at once around a Z-wall or they just stand still. And that's without the second killer around to hit them again.
Also, is Billy's chainsaw magnetic or are people just this bad at dodging him? I have faced my share of Billys and I never had any issues but somehow my team mates manage to get hit by them frequently.
Overall the survivor side feels like the solo queue experience is dialed up to 11. Maybe survivors should have base kit Bond (keep the range restrictions though, because otherwise it might get confusing with 7 yellow blobs on your screen) in this mode so that they can coordinate a little better.
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@IIITweedleIII said:
They shoulda done the que up like Killer Klowns done theirs. Make queuing up randomized. 2 randomly picked "survivors" end up being killer instead.
Because at this current moment, everyone wants to try the killer side.
That defeats the purpose of this game mode. Playing killer with a random person might be fun for a game or two. But after that it just gets dull. I want to play this role with a friend, not a random person, that will behave like my solo queue team mates.
What BHVR need to figure out is how to innovate the survivor role too in this game mode. Playing in a 8 people SWF would be pretty fun but most of us won't be able to set that up. Other than that, the survivor role is largely the same as before. Only with less focus on the chase.
@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768626#Comment_3768626
My point is that if 2v8 becomes permanent the days of catering to killers are over. BHVR will want to make survivor as appealing as possible to alleviate the long killer queue, and that means lowering the kill rate back to 50%.
You do realise, that with a lot more killers in the 2v8 queue, there will be less killers in the normal 1v4 queue, right? So the 1v4 queue would be pretty short for killers. By that logic, BHVR would need to cater even more to killers. After all, secondary game modes aren't used for statistics because the goal isn't to balance them anyway.
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2v8 is pretty fun but it seems, that 1 of the 2 killers has to play either Nurse or Huntress. The other 3 are more like support characters and playing 2 of those is pretty much asking to get stomped. I hope they'll readjust this in future versions of this game mode.
@radiantHero23 and myself have had great success with Nurse + Wraith. Wraith is a great scout and can tell the Nurse where to go as well as play a bit of hit and run so that the Nurse can pick up the pieces and she can also get her 3rd blink while passing by.
There is definitely work left to be done but overall this is some of the most fun I've ever had in this game.
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@dwight444 said:
imo those matches are too chaotic to have someone who can insta-down and zip through the maps
you're bound to catch people out of place and get easy downs
Then give him something else. He is in my estimation the weakest of the 5. His mobility is not that great with all this clutter, his team skill is beyond bad (probably the worst of the bunch, which says something considering that none of these killers make use of an undetectable effec) and his ability to down survivors is almost non existent with the amount of pallets on every tile.
He feels more like a scout for Nurse. But even then he is far inferior to Wraith, who can sneak up and have the Nurse come over before the survivors realise. They simply did a bad job with him. He also has no synergy with any of the other killers' team skills so any combination with him is pretty underwhelming.
You don't even catch people out of place, really. Because they can hear and see you coming. Wraith does a way better job with this because he can actually sneak up.
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It's pretty fun. Although, I have noticed that it feels like Trapper, Wraith and Billy are all just supporters that can't do much on their own, while Nurse and Huntress are just great in general. This does limit the number of worthwhile combos drastically.
Hillbilly seems to be pretty bad in every combination because on his own he is terrible and his team ability is not good with Huntress and Nurse. So you would need to pair him with either Trapper or Wraith, who are also not very good and suffer from the same issue, which makes it way harder to use the exposed effect. Also, Billy's mobility is terrible. There is just too much clutter everywhere to really make use of it, so you might as well play Wraith. As a Billy main, this has me disappointed.
Trapper and Wraith also feel terrible on their own. I understand that team work is key but if you can't do anything on your own, that's not very fun. With the amount of chasers that is exactly the case though. Also, why did they think that the strongest killer in the game needed the most buffs? 8 buffs for Nurse might be a little much.
I hope they'll change some of these killers for future iteration. They will probably have to add a few more interesting things for survivors too because this is just not that interesting from their perspective. It's fun as a killer because for the first time you can play together with a friend (if we ignore that old glitch) but for survivors there is nothing that special to it.
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Wait… What? This is horrible. How dare you even call that "cross progression"?! We are talking about people that bought the game, unlocked the dlcs via purchase / grind and then bought the game again. Cross progression means, that a player can have their entire save file as it is on one platform on another. But on that first one they would already have all this content, so the save files are different from each other, which means this is no cross progression.
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In short: "Why do all new killers have anti loop?"
Answer: Every killer in the game has some kind of an anti loop because BHVR know that pure M1 killers are terrible. They are weak, generic and boring. A pure M1 killer can't keep up. They lack the ability to traverse the map quickly enough to even get into enough chases and they can't end their chases in a timely manner either.
As for perks: Weave Attunement is the first "good" perk killers got in a while. Tell me, what Unknown perk was so great? Which of Chucky's perks are actually used? Xenomorph had 1 good perk again (which is dead now). Singularity came with no good perks either. Skull Merchant's perks could all be deleted and nobody would care. So of the last 18 killer perks, 3 of them were good. That's 1 every 2 chapters.
@TerraEsram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3760749#Comment_3760749
The ######### is that? It's not because there four survivor with each 4 perk that there's 16 perks for everyone, since a lot of them are only for the survivor himself or the other
You forgot a lot that SOLOQ is a thing, and there are more common than super strong SFWThe killer still plays against all 4 survivors. That means, they have to play against all 16 perks. Imagine if every survivor perk was about as strong as a killer perk. How would that work? This game is not a 1v1 but a 1v4. So the 1 has to be significantly stronger than each of the 4.
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"Oh no, the killer outplayed me after I teabagged them. Please nerf, BHVR."
Needless to say, this should not be changed. You went down because instead of looping and mindgaming correctly, you teabagged and camped the vault. The killer outplayed you.
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@AngelOfHope2017 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759767#Comment_3759767
Sounds like you are a killer main. Consider snuffing out the totems?
That argument didn't work on PTB CoH and it doesn't work now either. The killer can't run around the map in search of a totem. Every second they lose doing so is 4 seconds that survivors can spend healing or doing gens. Maybe if boons were like hex totems and couldn't be used once they're snuffed (without Shattered Hope) but definitely not when they can be reactivated infinitely.
There also isn't any indication for the killer to know where to look (the sound cue only plays when you're already right next to it) and there is no possibility of them spawning next to it and removing it before it even came into play either.
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Why not wait 3 seconds though? Then you wouldn't even have that issue.
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@nihilst said:
my internet isn’t bad it just read only turns off for a split second mid game and on dbd there no rejoin option like other games
I agree that there should an option to rejoin (at least for a few seconds) but what others have already said is true. It doesn't matter why you are removed from the game. The results are the same and the penalties are there to prevent that. You need to rack up quite a few disconnects to get a 72 hours ban. In my thousands of hours in this game I haven't managed to achieve that (I think the highest I got was like 10 minutes) and there have been says where my internet was a bit wonky too.
This means that you ruined a pretty big number of games wether willingly or not. It is your responsibility to ensure that you have the technical means to follow the rules and as long as you don't do that, these penalties are completely justified.
I understand that this sucks but there isn't a whole lot they can do about it.
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@Royval said:
who’s the witch
They probably mean Hag. In some languages like German (Hexe), Spanish (Bruja) and Russian (Ведьма) the words hag and witch can both be translated the same, although with different implications equivalent to the English words. The hag version of each word be more of an insult while the witch version would be a person practicing magic.
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Honestly, the moris are fine. Nothing too disturbing going on here, considering that DBD is a horror game. Maybe Singularity's mori is a little over the top but the rest is fine. Some are even pretty mild like Legion's and Pig's.
Your argument is basically that people shouldn't see this kind violence in video games because they might mimmick it in real life. But that's what we have age ratings for. A healthy adult will be able to tell the difference between reality and game and know that these things are a lot different outside of the game and the people that do have some kind of disability in that regard are responsible not to consume these products, which they are told contain graphic displays of violence.
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Technically, this is possible. Hackers can do the craziest things. But it's very unlikely. There aren't that many hackers in DBD and the chances that all of them would be able to do that is astronomically low.
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What? Most anti tunnel perks are no issue at all when you don't tunnel and then it's a survivor with only 3 perks. You don't have to tunnel every match, you know? Honestly, anti tunnel perks could be even stronger (although some may need some more restrictions not to be abusable against killers that don't tunnel).
If a survivor runs 4 anti tunnel perks, then they have nothing if you don't tunnel. That is a huge advantage. Exhausted effects (or anything similar) for anti tunnel perks are a horrible idea. Tunneling should not be the usual play style for every killer but an option that can be used when survivors make themselves vulnerable to it and if they use anti tunnel perks, then they aren't vulnerable in that regard.
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Billy: Lethal Pursuer, BBQ, Huntress Lullaby and Plaything with Apex Muffler and Spiked Boots. The idea is to give the survivors so much to look out for that they crack under the pressure while you get some nice cross map chainsaws.
Doctor: Lethal Pursuer, BBQ, Zanshin Tactics and Brutal Strength. This is my comfort build. Zanshin Tactics allows me to turn off my brain and just chase, Lethal + BBQ help me spread madness and Brutal Strength is for those filthy pre drops.
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@TerraEsram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743650#Comment_3743650
It's just ######### sad
Imagin, having two separate mod, where one, people want just to enjoy an aniversary, and just gettig a lot of hardcore sweaty player who are just there for ruining each game?
I was hopping than, having two different mod can get away these killer who hard tunnel, camp, and play the dirtiest way away, but no, it's even worse
And seeing people here, just like "You mad bro? Stop playing" add more frustration, and more toxicity in this game and in this communityI think you read too much into it. It's people that play like they always do (or in some cases they might play even more win oriented because their opponents might not) but it's certainly not done to ruin the game in general. I fully understand your frustration but this just highlights how deeply flawed the game actually is when it comes to tunneling.
What reason does a killer have not to tunnel, assuming the survivors don't go out of their way to punish them for it? 2 perks that only work once on each survivor and were recently nerfed (Pain Res and Grim Embrace) and pretty much nothing else. But there are a lot of reasons for tunneling to be the default play style. It's more effective than spreading hooks, which means you win more games and it also leads to more BP. Plus you force survivors to do something to stop you from tunneling or they lose a team mate, which means you get extra slowdown from applying pressure at the right places. That's quite a lot. Not to mention your perks will work just fine when one person is eliminated, so even if it does put you behind schedule you can turn it around. This was one good thing about Ruin's nerf in 6.1.0 but for some reason they decided to go back on it and only left it with 100% regression.
Tunneling doesn't disappear just because there is a second queue. Why would it? It still works, it still is more effective than spreading hooks and it still lets you win more and gain more BP in the progress. That is a problem that needs to be solved. And you can't do that by just bringing a few perks back into the meta (though it's a start). You need to incentivise spreading hooks and at the same time disincentivise tunneling. These are similar but not the same. If only punishments were added, then they have to be so severe that a killer will basically lose by default, if they dare tunnel. This ultimately would make the killer role less enjoyable (nobody likes having a constant reminder that you could do something but you aren't really allowed to do it). If only incentives to spread hooks were added, then killers could still tunnel and for it not to be the meta play style, the incentives would need to be insane.
In general, tunneling is nothing personal and it shouldn't be viewed as such. It still sucks but it's not really toxic or malicious. So for now, your only real option is to deal with it one way or another. I fully understand your frustrations but it's not like we can do much about it. Until the devs make some major adjustments to the game, tunneling will remain an issue.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750852#Comment_3750852
Because when we do use Unbreakable the forums complain that Survivors only use the same 4 meta perks (and the only other viable one is honestly Plot Twist), and when we don't use the same 4 meta perks this happens with alarming consistency.
Nah, not really. It has been months since the last time I saw more than 1 person with Unbreakable in a match. So the chances for all 4 survivors to use it are very low. Even then, 1 match with a perk that's used 4 times is not that big of a deal. It just can't be like old DH, where on average 3 survivors would use it and your statistical chance to get a match without any DHs was about 1:256.
I agree though that something needs be done about this kind of slugging. There is nothing wrong with an ambitious play where a killer slugs a survivor and can immediately chase another but if the only goal is to slug all of them and bleed them out, this should be a reportable offense (which it technically is as it falls under griefing).
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@Sarrif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3748183#Comment_3748183
Yeah it goes give map wide aura vision on some maps like hawkins or rpd. And even on more open maps the counter for survivors is to go and find an item and then waste time taking it to a dead zone all while your aura is revealed or you are oblivious.
24 metres = map wide? You'll have a hard time proving that. Even if the item is located perfectly, it's not the entire map. Even 2 items cannot achieve that. On The Game, you might get something close to map wide with all 4 items located perfectly (and that's a map problem, not a problem with Weave Attunement) but how hard is it to just pick up an item and leave it in a corner of the map? You do that once and counter 2 of the killer's perks. That's half their build!
If a minor inconvenience is too much to counter half the killer's build, then I don't even know what to tell you. Because then every single killer perk would be overpowered. They are all at least inconvenient to counter.
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I don't think it would be a good idea to make bleedouts not count towards MMR. If they did that, then killers could use this as a way to stall their MMR in a range where they have easy matches while still winning. Meaning, that griefing would then have a legitimate use.
We'd replace one issue with another and the new issue would be even worse. At least, if they win and their MMR goes up, they will get stronger opponents who may be better suited to deal with this.
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So illusionary doctors, visual effects, random skillchecks and incapacitated gone? No thanks. We are talking about what really makes this killer unique. Let's not remove that. The only thing that might need a change are the visual effects caused by madness. Some people have claimed it's hard on photo sensitive players and if that is correct, then that should be fixed.
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@Sarrif said:
Let's say survivors had a perk where the only way to counter it was for the killer to go to the basement for a minute and just wait around and until they did that their aura was permanently revealed. Let's say this perk somehow took up four slots as well, would that be okay balance wise?
Ahh yes, because the killer gains map wide aura vision and the only counter is to go into the basement. After all Weave Attunement doesn't have any restrictions and is permanently active. You definitely cannot pick up the item again and the range isn't restricted either. This is truly one of the comparisons of all time.
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@Destaice said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3748086#Comment_3748086
In what universe is dodging a lobby a "real issue." People can choose not to play with you when the game isn't started and there's objectively nothing wrong with choosing that option.
I don't care if its a bias or a fallacy or whatever irrelevant buzzwords you wanna quote off wikipedia to tell me I'm wrong. Because I know my overall experience has improved by not playing with anon survivors. And the few moments those games are bad are mostly anonymous killers.In the same universe in which we all would like to play the game eventually without waiting 5 minutes in the lobby because some dicks decide to dodge anonymous players. This is also the same universe in which back filling disables matchmaking, so you could 5 people over by leaving and having a beginner join a lobby of way more experienced players. The other survivors won't be happy because they have dead weight on their team, the beginner won't be happy because they'll have a very difficult time and the killer won't be happy because the match is decided from the very start.
You know, I could cherry pick my games too and my experience might actually get better for it. Especially since that is also confirmation bias (couldn't help myself). It doesn't mean, that that's a good thing. You don't fix toxicity that way and you don't reduce it either. You only make people affraid to use anonymous mode because they don't want to be dodged. At that point, the feature loses it's purpose.
You are gaslighting yourself, if you unironically think that this helps in any way.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3748105#Comment_3748105
I agree with most of what you said.
I would say they could change lopro, I don't like the addon design, because it can result in lose lose situations... I don't like the idea of tying the overdrive to getting a down, and if so then at least make it so he gains a charge of that that he can use at will for x seconds of durations so he does not just get it in a situation where it does nothing for him.
Overall Billy is fine, he was incredibly hard before and super weak at that, the rework made him indeed stronger but I don't necessarily think his basekit is too strong, he is Allright, I still wish they would give him the more fluent cooldown animation from the old days, I don't like the wobbly current one...
With LoPro chains, I agree that they should not exist in this form anymore. It was fine when Billy was weak but now it just pushes him over the edge. I think a rework or a hefty nerf are in order. I would be fine with it, if it turned your chainsaw hits into normal hits and disabled Overdrive permanently.
I don't like the idea of tying the overdrive to getting a down, and if so then at least make it so he gains a charge of that that he can use at will for x seconds of durations so he does not just get it in a situation where it does nothing for him.
I fully understand that and if they ever go that route, then of course the killer should be able to activate it at will. Otherwise it would only encourage slugging, which is not the most healthy redesign either.
For the animations, i don't care that much. I have grown used to it and I'm pretty indifferent about it.
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While a lot of this is correct, there is a reason why Billy wasn't played that much before his rework. His base kit just felt lacking in so many situations and it always felt like you needed Engravings to even enable the fun part, which is to curve survivors. I have mained him for 2 1/2 years now and I was frustrated by this killer countless times.
You set up the perfect curve, mind gamed the survivor successfully and executed it correctly and still you didn't get the hit because you simply lacked the speed without certain addons. Some loops were pretty much uncurvable because this lack of speed would always save the survivor. Then you made a small mistake, hit a tree branch that wasn't on your screen (even with Shadowborn) and gave that survivor enough time to make it 3-4 loops further. So you left because you couldn't afford to catch up and try again (especially with the risk of having the same thing happen a second time) and then found the next person to repeat the process.
It was bad. Really bad. To top it off, Overheat was always there to tell you, that you used your power too much. Well excuse me for playing this killer for his power and not the fact that he is a very "unique" standard 4.6 m/s, tall M1 killer with nothing else going for him. It didn't really come into play anymore but it was something that always left a bad taste in my mouth.
Billy definitely needed quality of life improvements. Those include better collisions (you should not bump into things that you can't see period), higher base chainsaw speed to make him less addon reliant (no killer should be forced to use some specific addons to be functional), a remove of overheat and reduced penalties for missing and bumping (these simply made him too punishing for most people). I had also mentioned before that his counterplay was often times too easy compared to how hard it was to actually play as him.
This was to a degree because he lacked unpredictability and complexity from a survivor's perspective. You knew what he could do and there were 50 options to counter it at all times. For the killer that meant, that curving as fun as it was, was just a big risk instead of an opportunity. If my chances to get a hit with a curve are incredibly low and the punishment for a missed curve is that high, then why wouldn't I just run after that survivor and try to back revv? Because it isn't fun. But it's also not very fun when the preferable play style is that much weaker and more risky.
If I had to describe old Billy in a single phrase it would be: "A lack of control." While you did have control over your own power, the survivor had complete control over the results and only if they made some big mistakes did that change. Unfortunately there are a handful of loops that now have the opposite issue and basically guarantee you get hit as a survivor. This isn't good either but it can be fixed way easier than before because all of these loops have the same issue: collisions. If I cannot bump into a loop at all, then I can do a U-turn around it, which leaves survivors with no counterplay other than to pre drop the pallet and leave, which isn't fun for either side.
The thing about a good Hillbilly main destroying you is neither right nor wrong. A couple of maps held him back to the point it was basically pointless to even try but on most maps you could win as him. This however fails to aknowledge the real reason why that was. Because most people playing DBD are genuinely not that good at the game (myself included). So if you played Billy on a high level you had a good chance to play against people that were not as good as you and win (partially because you'd lose against those, which prevented your MMR from going up) but that is true for any killer (except maybe Freddy). I cannot tell you how many matches I lost with this killer against survivors that I perceived as pretty mediocre. They didn't need to do anything special because I lacked the power to follow through.
If we absolutely have to nerf Billy at some point (which I don't think is necessary for his base kit), I'd rather they keep him as rewarding as he is but tie Overdrive to getting a chainsaw down instead of just using the chainsaw. I want this killer to be fun for both sides but going back to old Billy isn't the way to achieve that.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
This is pure confirmation bias. You focus on those people who are Anon and toxic, but ignore that the majority who uses Anon mode is NOT toxic.
I have also seen plenty of people being toxic without being anonymous.
Well said. Anonymous mode doesn't cause people to play toxic. This would only lead to preemptive lobby dodging in the chance the killer could play toxic and since people have very different ideas of what can be seen as toxic, this could become a real issue.
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The only negative consequencee that permanently broken hooks had for the killer were that they either to bleed out survivors (which is pretty boring for both sides) and a way to bully them, if the remaining survivors played in a SWF and were all in on it.
This is not a big buff to killers. It's only done so that these situations won't occur anymore. If a killer had no hooks but they got the down on you, then they wouldn't let you wiggle out regardless. You'd just be waiting to bleed out.
Respawning pallets on the other hand would be a huge and unprecedented buff. It would completely change the meta gameplay, encourage the Brainrot of Opportunity play style to run from pallet to pallet and drop everything immediately, destroy all killers that can't play around dropped pallets without breakng them, turn The Game into a guaranteed win for survivors every time they don't play against a Nurse and nuke a bunch of killer perks in the process.
Pallets are a finite resource. This is why survivors take a risk by looping the killer. If they respawned, then that risk would be unnecessary, so the biggest skill expression that survivors have would become obsolete too. That has the potential to actually kill the game. Most people don't want to play DBD on auto pilot because it removes the only interactive part of the game.
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Well, now you've done it. I see another Freddy nerf in the near future. You can no longer cancel setting up a snare and his movement speed during that time is reduced to 0.8 m/s for good measure. Actually, scratch that. Snares are removed completely and his movement speed is reduced to 4.4 m/s.
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@Backmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746955#Comment_3746955
Pig lose her power after 4 chases cause no bear trap and she is far weaker than singularity. Again why killer so powerful as Singularity with insane map control and pressure, passive game delay and insane chase potential - slipstream does not have limite on it. For now biopods value is almost free and survivors cant do much about it. Imagine if pig can recover her bear traps - you get current Singularity
She loses a part of her power and it's an integral part of her kit. She was designed with this in mind. Singularity wasn't and Pig's traps are way more powerful and threatening than biopods can ever be. That's why the game limits Pig in other areas and only gives her 4 of them base kit. Pig is the only killer in the game that can kill you passively. That's a major difference.
Singularity doesn't get "insane map pressure" and "passive game delay" either but "insane map pressure" or "passive game delay". If you use the EMPs, then the map pressure is reduced greatly and if you don't use them, then there is no passive game delay. It's one or the other, not both. The biopod's value also isn't really free. I mean, what do you get out of a biopod? You slipstream a survivor and now you can teleport to them but you still play M1 killer, if the survivor just keeps on running because for each teleport they make a lot of distance on you that you will have to catch up again before you are a threat. In that time, the overclock duration has already expired.
Play Singularity yourself and actually try to get value out of the teleport (and in extend the complete power) in chase. That's pretty hard.
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@Backmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746913#Comment_3746913
You forgot that EMP not only counter for biopods but also a good game delay, if survivors know that they can completly shut down singularity power they search for them. This means less people on gen. And Singularity already have enough biopods as base kit, this only can became a problem on closed maps. And also make Singularity place them not so obvious. The main reason for this change is nerf his insane map pressure
Yeah. You get about a minute or two extra, if you're lucky and the only cost is that you completely give up your power. Sounds like a good trade. After all, we know how well M1 killers do currently.
You get this game delay anyway and Singualrity is nowhere near overpowered at the moment. Adding the ability to permanently shut off its power is just overkill. There is no world in which that would be fine.
It also doesn't matter how obvious a biopod is placed. You see these things anyway and if you don't because they are placed around a corner, then that's a badly biopod because it can't see anything either, which removes all utility from it.
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Most of these are quality of life changes. The most considerable buffs are the 3 seconds extra it takes to retrieve an EMP and the 3% haste after a teleport, which also came at the cost of increased overclock duration for each survivor slipstreamed and survivors also get a bit more information on Singularity's power. So claiming that Singularity will be unbearable to play against is a bit overdramatic.
Singularity is in no way strong enough to warrant a downside like you proposed. That is ridiculous. You set a biopod in chase, the survivor uses and EMP and now you're down to 7. All while the rest of the team can do the same to every biopod you have on the map so you have to use them spontaneously, which removes your 1v4 completely and also means, that after every chase, you need to destroy the biopods you set or someone else will. Even then, you'd get to use your power 7 times only before you run out.
That would place him pretty close to Freddy in a tier list and that is never a good sign.
Edit: I was mistaken about the amount of biopods before. It's 8 in total, not 10.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744794#Comment_3744794
This is an interesting video, thank you for highlighting it here, I did see most of this Live. One thing that I think it's good to highlight, is this is not a personal score, but a team one. Hens often died himself to get his team mates out.
That is one of solo queue's biggest issues. Even when you technically win or draw as a team you can still lose individually and because the people you play with aren't your friends, your personal experience and escape rate matters a lot more than that of the team. This also leads to low morale among many solo queue players. After all, when something goes wrong and you don't consider the team, then there is little reason to keep playing. It feels like you already lost the game right then and there.
I think it would help, if survivors were encouraged to work together as a team a bit more. Too often it feels like it's a 1v1 between a survivor and a killer and of course the survivor pretty much never comes out on top here. But there are 4 survivors, so even if you went down, that doesn't mean you did bad. You were going to go down eventually but you did the best you could and allowed your team to make considerable progress (hopefully).
One way to improve the situation in this regard (and also to bring solo queue even closer to SWFs) is to add ways for survivors to communicate. Just a reminder that you don't fight alone against the killer should be enough to put more emphasis on team play instead of the 1v1. Both are important, so both should be encouraged.
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No. That's a horrible idea. If pallets were to respawn, balance would fly out the window, survivors could pre drop every pallet without consequences, some maps (especially The Game) would become completely pointless to play on with any killer but Nurse and hiding to regenerate pallets would become a meta play style.
If this were to happen, then I'd quite both sides. I wouldn't want to play a game where all my team mates just hide and rarely ever touch a gen (much more than now) and that goes 30+ minutes with basically nothing happening and playing killer would become just as dull. You'd run around chasing survivors that don't use any brain power at all since looping and mind gaming would be obsolete and you'd still lose.
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LoPro Chains and some of his Overdrive addons need a rework but apart from that he is fine.
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Whenever a killer becomes popular among killer players, they become unpopular among survivor players. This is mostly due to overexposure and some people convincing themselves that there is no point in playing against XYZ killer anyway.
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Unfortunately, the only 2 options are to either not play or get better internet. Regardless of her intentions, she left the match and the results are the same as if she had rage quit. So a penalty is in order.
I understand that this is sucks and it probably isn't what you want to hear but the match is ruined regardless of her intentions, which the penalties seek to prevent.
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@Backmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745862#Comment_3745862
So you dont care it makes him more hated than skull merchant for exactly the same reason. Huge effort with little downside and 0 counterplay from survivor side. Photo being basekit is guranteed hit on 90% of situations
That's a stretch. Skull Merchant guarantees her results while Singularity will no longer be disoriented by its own power.
Some players would play like that anyway and they still weren't unbeatable. Because the hard part is not to find the survivor while you control a bio pod (and it shouldn't be) but to actually mark them without them getting behind cover. And even then, what happens if that survivor is slipstreamed? Nothing. You don't magically injure them.
Instead you gain the ability to teleport to them and activate overclock, which still has the same issue it had before. Just worse because you can't prolong it by slipstreaming multiple survivors anymore. You can outrun the overclock duration without having to vault or drop a pallet and you will still be able to even with the 3% haste effect (which is not Soma Family Photo base kit). If you need me to, I'll do the maths and explain in greater detail. But right now, I don't feel like it.