Voodoo101
Voodoo101
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@Nayru said:
funny, in my experience two people bring streamers and then i get genrushed in minutes and they run out with 6000-9000 points each teabagging at the exit gate, thinking i'm the one who lost there with ~22,000+ points and barbecue
i'll never understand
I think it works both ways. There are killers that camp, there are killers that tunnel, just as there are survivors who go in tooled up to gen rush. Neither can moan at the other. If you are a genuine player and you lose because you don't camp / gen rush and you are caught by the other side that do, then just take it that you are the better person and want to win with skill, then move onto the next game.
The survivors that annoy me the ones that teabag, but was really bad at the game. Sometimes I will play a level 1 killer just to get the challenges, I'm not really interested in going for a 3k or 4k, just need to brake gens, throw hatchets or something, so I spend my time concentrating on that, even letting them go to do the challenge. Then they stand at the gate as the timer goes down waiting to teabag. They actually think they was good and beat me, even though I let them go.
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Always wondered how survivors can kill killer totems, but a killer can only snuff it out and they it can be reused. If thats the case make them all the same.
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@[Deleted User] said:
The devs are fine with camping, they've addressed this many times.
Then when killer queue waits become longer as more people stop playing survivor and either play something else or just become killers, the old "if you can't beat them, then join them" attitude, and the game starts to die, then I hope they look at this as one of the reasons. I play killer more now because of this reason. I would rather play a nice fair game of killer and get 50-60,000 bloodpoints per game, then go into survivor, get camped, have a boring game and leave with next to no bloodpoints.
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@Kalinikta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568385#Comment_2568385
That is simple:
- You have selected an area of the map you want to defend, get someone on a hook in it and camp that area.
- Using the person on the hook to lure in more people, so you can kill them. Do it in the end game for instance as the doors tend to be safe areas, having them on a hook pulls survivors back into the map.
- Use the person on the hook to lure in better players, because it can be used to get them out of position. Bank on their altruism and capitalize on it.
It is a legit strategy, because it can work and pan out. I think one of their devs one called it interesting and a high risk reward tactic. You are giving up a section of the map for immense pressure in a specific area. If it was not working out, if it isn't a valid strategy... you wouldn't be complaining about it.
I think people dont mind killers who camp the area, it is the ones that camp the hook. If you camp the area then their is an opportunity of the survivors saving. With killers who just stand by the hook, these are the ones that need to be punished.
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@Kalinikta said:
Do some gens, before they hit the next stage arrive with full health, maybe with BT and unhook them, have them body block the second hit and make it to the next loop. If you go down, have your team work on gens, before you hit the next stage, have one of the healthy survivors come and do the trade just as you did or have 2 people come and do it...
People forget this is a team vs 1 game... don't ignore the gens, use the time on the hook and play smart. Wraith does not have an instant down, you can literally tank the hit, unhook and DH out, have a BT body block, etc. Stop trying to 1v1 the killer, you are in a 4 man team!
This plan only works if you queue as a team, not for the solo player. The lack of voice communication takes the team play away. Your team will play the way each individual plays. As a team you can coordinate efforts, do gens, heal, make saves and run the killer. As a solo player you do what you think is best at the time. You don't have the benefits of knowing the killer is camping till you go for the save. If you are the person on the hook, you may want your team to do gens, but they don't know that. You may hope that somebody in your team has dead hard, but with 4 perks slots per survivor, you can't all run that just in case.
There are only two reasons for a killer to camp the hook, the first is because the killer is so bad, they cannot chase in which case then they should practice, or because they want to be toxic. This behaviour is the same playing a shooting game with aimbot. All other games ban people from this play, DBD doesn't even have a penalty, in fact the penalty goes to the survivors who don't want to play this type of game and disconnects.
There is no need to camp. I have just started playing killer and on most games I get over 50,000 bloodpoints, upto 100,000. Even getting a few hooks and all four survivors escaping, I get over 50,000 bloodpoints. Proxy camping if fine, sometimes you get to the hook in time, sometimes you don't, but standing by the hook or hiding right next to it is stupid. I even think it is bad when you have trapper, hag or pyramid head putting traps around the hook, but at least that gives you fair game to escape.
I'm not saying that the killer should let the survivors win, just as I don't play racing games and wait at the finish to let the driver behind pass me and win, but I don't cheat in the game and take a short cut that no other driver can take, just to say I won.
I will highly surprised if BeHaviour even reads this post let alone take any action to change the game, after all their are posts and posts of players complaining about this, yet nothing gets done, but it was worth the try.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Seem to be forgetting the option where you save the survivor while trying to avoid making it a straight trade. Good thing bt works in situations like this and can be used as a solo player.
Bu then you are just playing into the killers hands. Most killers don't mind the trade as they get bonuses for getting multiple survivors. As a survivor you will get between 15,000 and 30,000 bloodpoints for grinding gens, making saves and exiting. A killer can get over 50,000 for just camping the hook.
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I think the exit gate time is fine. From a killers side, I think it should regress when not being opened, instead of the survivor being able to 99 it and wait, it kind of defeats the object of the timer. On the survivor side then I think it is fine as it is.
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The problem with DC penalties is that there is no way of the system why there was a DC. Take the recent Steam outages, a lot of people got disconnected and had penalties for something that was out of their control. Then there are other genuine reasons to DC, some people have families, phone calls, somebody at the door, not all players are teenagers, able to sit and play without being disturbed. Some people have poor internet, or service issues. Some people have PC crashes.
On the flip side their are the sore losers, the killers that disconnect at 4 gens and only a few hooks, or the survivor that disconnects when they have been hooked, because the they can't lose the killer.
All these people have the same penalty, do they all deserve the penalty? In my opinion no. If you lose the penalty then people can just disconnect when things don't go their way. If you extend then it affects genuine people. You can't stop people rage quitting, it's just life the same as you can't stop toxic players.
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@Viamont said:
I honestly feel you, there was this game where i just did poorly so took my loses as best as i could, i was chassing on some corner when they opened the gate so i pretty much knew i was beaten. Near the gate i knew i wouldnt be able to down that survivor i was chassing so i just stoped and waited...this group stood almost all the entity time waiting just to teabag, and i can say because not a single one of them left the game. Didnt gave them the pleasure so i just turned around and went to break pallets and doors.
I hate when survivors do that, it seems to be some kind of hive mind mentallity that they "need" to humilliate the killers as much as posible as if they werent players themselves, but the entity forvide the killers to do the same sometime because you get bombarder with "toxic" "horrible killer" "tunneler" and watever they can, quite frankly the game needs a bit of a consequence for this levels of toxicity, i left LoL for that exact same reason and its very dissapointing to find another game with the same levels
I just played a game with the shape. I don't play the shape so I thought I would just run through and try out stalking. I was no so bothered with the kills. I had a chase with one survivor, who was very bad at looping and dropped every pallet in his path, without me even being near, but as I was just messing, I let the run and the odd hook I walked away and let them unhook. Letting them do 5 gens and then practically walking them to the exit, they all stood ready to teabag, like they had beat me when I was not even trying. I just walked away. It's like they think they are good if they escape. It was so funny when it came up with the little amount of bloodpoints they got.
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It sounds good, but in the end what have you got apart from a killer good for Youtube videos. It would be good for going up to survivors, then changing into the killer and watching them run away, or if you could act like you need healing it may be funny.
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Its not the killers that need to be nerfed, or even the survivors. It is the perks, or at least the fact that certain builds can be game breakers.
A low level killer in the hands of a bad player can get an easy 4k with perks from different killers. The same as a poor survivor can escape easily with a good build. These are done so easily without skill, simply by playing the game, getting the bloodpoints and leveling up the killer / survivors that you need the perks. You don't even need to play the killer / survivor in question.
Always play Trapper but want extra bloodpoints and the ability to see auras, then play trapper but level up Bubba, then use Barbecue and Chilli on trapper, or want to make the gens regress easy but like playing Doctor, the just level up hag and use Ruin.
Its the same with survivors. Play Meg but want Borrowed Time, the play Meg but spend points on Bill. Its that easy. People who play the game more can just buy wins. They can buy a new killer / survivor and unlock the perks with saved bloodpoints, never playing the character and just build the deck they want.
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Kindred is a great perk to use, provided that you have teammates that will work the gens with you.
With regards to camping, I have been saying this for a while. Stop the timer if the killer stays within a certain radius, however it is great in theory, not that easy to put into practice. What happens if you are looped near the hook. Do you leave the survivor just so the timer runs or do you keep on the chase, knowing the the survivor on hook will not get taken. Allowing for the other survivors to do the gens and then save them last minute.
The problem with camping is not so much the game as it cannot really be stopped. It is with the mentality of some killer players. It is the same as the players that go into shooting games with aimbot and wallhack. They don't care about having the skill of playing, or actually learning to get better. They want the game on easy mode. To get kills on every game the easiest way.
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@SlothGirly said:
well yes, if gens are flying by and a killer has no kill, it makes sense to tunnel and camp as it's a very effective way of securing kills. People need to stop complaining about killers trying to win. what else do you want the killer to do? chase every single survivor until they're death hook to kill them?
No, it makes sense to get better at the game, so the gens do not fly by. I am not the greatest killer, in fact I can count the amount of killer games I have played on my fingers, but I can get kills without having to camp or tunnel. Sometimes I get the same survivor twice in a row, because I happen upon them. It is not an excuse that because you are bad at the game, you have to take this option.
Play more hours, try a different killer, try different perks, watch video's of other players, record your games and see where you go wrong. There is nothing wrong with either team winning or trying to win. Killers who camp are all to quick to use the excuse "I was gen rushed", then move around the map more, pressure the killers to leave gens and then damage them. Yes there will be games where the whole team gets out, but that is life. If you win every game then the game needs to be changed big style.
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Just stop the hook timer if the killer is at the hook. That way they do not get the kill and the other players do not have to take a chance to rescue. If the killer wants to leave with no kills then he can face camp. The person on the hook can just relax, watching the killer while the rest of the team does the gens with no hassle. Then they can do the rescue and all escape. The killer will get very few bloodpoints and a loss.
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@Legionair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556106#Comment_2556106
the game is a 4v1 as killer. 16 perks vs 4 and the survivor side is already high in the power role because of how many copouts they get. its never fair kid, not until killers are in the power role
Your comment of 16 perks vs 4 perks sounds good if all things was even, the problem is that they are not even. This game can never be even because of the way it is designed. The killer has one job and that is to kill, for this they have a raft of perks to help. They have the ability to see all the gens and hooks, on top of that they have perks to see the survivors, make no sound and stop gens even being worked on, let alone perks that make the gens regress without the killer having to damage them. The survivors on the other hand have a team of 4, they have to do 5 gens, whilst trying to avoid the killer. There are some perks that help speed up the gens by a little, or there are addons. These make very little difference in my opinion. If the killer does find them then they have a few perks to help them match the killers speed, however these are very limited. When caught they have another job to do, which is to save. Even when they manage to do gens, the gates take a while to open.
16 perks dont always help much on most teams that are made up of single or small group players, they may help on a team of 4 where they are coordinated and each play a role.
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The reason people camp is because the mechanics of the game allow it.
I find it goes in waves. I can play game after game with a killer, good or bad, who will chase around the map. Some get a few kills, some get none, some get 4k. Then I can have game after game where the killer will not leave the hook no matter how much you bait them. They want that kill and anybody who comes close will be hooked. I would love to say that all the campers are low level, but I have seen a lot of high level. They normally state that they have to camp because of gen rushing, but what they don't realise is that the only reason it ends up gen rushing is because they camp. If you cannot save and the killer is in one spot, the rest of the gens are not being patrolled. It leaves 3 survivors to do 5 gens, less if they killer was late getting the kill, all without being disturbed or the gens being kicked.
What killers need to think about is that many survivors want the longer game, they want to loop, they want to heal, open chest, find totems. The games where the killer tries are more fun. If the killer loses then so be it, not every game is the same, the next game they may win, but at the end of the game you get the ggs. I know there are some survivors out their that will teabag at the gate, and they are normally the ones that shout the most about toxic killers, however teabaging at the gate can also be seen as a gg when its PC and console players together, as chat does not work together.
When I play as a killer, I play how I would like a killer to be against me. I make sure I leave the hook, and I go for the survivor that I find first, not the same one. If I win, then I know I did it with a challange, not the easy way. If I lose then I know to try harder next game.
If I'm a survivor and I get hooked, then I just stay on the hook and let the team do gens, then kill myself. The killer gets one hook and not many points, that's down to them.
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Simple way of solving that. Rank survivors on how well the work as a team, do gens, heal and save, then give extra points for the more people survive. For the killer take away the four basement hooks, make it only one. Reduce points for facecamping and award points for variety, the space between hooks used, the different survivors you kill.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556143#Comment_2556143
I rarely tunnel and unless survivors pissed me off I don't even try to secure endgame kills with camping. So don't insult me with facecamping.
I don't mind escapes as long it is deserved with skill and not carried by map offering and items. That just doesn't feel good.
My main issue is not hard games, but my main issue is that I don't have reason to deal with it each game. That's why I want to at least see MMR ratings, so I can track my progress and create goals.
It's not about harder games, or that I see same perks everygame, because I would be hypocrite to complain about that. My issue is just current lack of motivation and long queues. I just want to have some form of feedback, that's all.
But sometimes you need to challenge yourself. You say that you dont like it when survivors have offerings and items, but no doubt you have them, because they are part of the game. Its the same as being a survivor with the killer have perks to stop gens or down survivors with one hit. Its not nice either way, but it is the game and works both ways.
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Let me get this straight. You are used to getting 4k's most match, but because you are now matched with survivors who actually win once and a while, you don't like it.
This is the way I see the game, or any game. It should be a challenge. If it is easy then you are either playing it at the wrong level, or you are using things that make it way too easy. In DBD for a killer then their are many ways to make it easy, such as perks and camping.
Yes there are times when the new matchmaking puts you in a game when all the survivors are bad and you get the kills easy. So change your strategy and challenge yourself. Then their are times the survivors are really good, then take the loss and move on. The game is not made for the killer to win every game. You are showing the community one thing with this post and that is you are a toxic facecamper that will do anything to get 4k. A 50% win rate is fine and shows that the game is doing what it is made to do, to give both teams a chance.
If you just want to win every game, then might I suggest you get a pack of playing cards and play snap on your own.
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If you are being run for 5 gens then one, you are bad at killing, or two, you are making the wrong decisions. If somebody is good at looping then leave them and head for gens.
Proxy camping is fine on above ground hooks and does not need to change. It is down to the survivors to lure you away for the save, if you decided to facecamp above a above ground hook, then their is a chance that you only hook one survivor (unless you are Bubba). If you proxy camp the basement hooks then you will probably be called all the names on chat, and to be honest I agree. With four hooks in basement then it is easy to get more kills, this is what needs to be changed.
The game has faults, but it is the mentality of the killer and survivors that need to change to make this game better. Forget face-camping, learn to chase and find survivors on gens, all the tools for you to do it comes with every killer. You can see gens, you can see scratch marks and you can move faster. Facecamping is like being a sniper with aimbot, yes it makes it easy, but their is no skill and no real reward at the end.
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Thanks for your comments. Gen rushing is always an option, but the killer handbook states that gen rushing makes it ok to camp. In fact there are many post on here of killers complaining that they want it banned and stating that it is the reason why they camp. The funny thing is that we could not gen rush because they had perks to stop it.
As to doing flashlight saves, it is not a common thing for me to take into a game. It's not like we can load up with medkit, toolkit and torch to cover every game scenario. As I said, there are a lot of killers that play the game and don't need to camp, or tunnel for that matter, although I don't mind tunnelling and killers going for the weakest first, it makes the weak improve.
With regards to manipulating the MMR, from my understanding from the data mining information, the speed of gens make no difference. The objective for a survivor is to escape, even if they just hid by the exit gate all game. The killer just needs to get 3/4 kills, no matter how they get them. This of course is made easy by camping the basement.
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@R2k said:
So u were trying to do gens, she forced u away and end up killing u all. How's that even unfair?
No, we could not get to the gens. I am all for killers rushing people on gens, its part of the game. Let me explain it in simple terms. Imagine you are a survivor and you spawn on the map, but you cannot move. The killer is able to come over to you and kill you, but you cannot move because the killer has a perk that makes all the survivors immobile. Or how about a game of soccer, where one team has a goal, but the other team has a the goal bricked up. Would you call this a fair game or would you call it balanced in the favour of one team. I've played against good hags, and been chased from gens and able to loop, sometimes escaping and sometimes getting killed. This was not a good hag, it was like a shooting game with aimbot, the trouble is that other games ban you from having aimbot, however DBD actively adds perks to make it killer sided.
I know that there will now be a steam of killer mains screaming that it is survivor sided, but having been both a killer and survivor player, I can say that their are more perks to stop the survivor winning, without needing any skill, then perks to help the survivor to escape without needing skill. This game does not need much to balance it, just remove the option to have a build that negates the game. All I see on this forum is people begging to stop the saltiness and toxicity. People want to play the game in a fair way, to have a chance for both the killer and the survivors to be able to win and lose equally. The toxicity comes from the fact that it is too easy to stop one side or the other from having a fair game by playing in dirty ways, such as camping or using builds like this, or on survivor side, gen rushing or a team with flashlights. Both of these sides have come from the fact that people are worried about playing dirty on the other side.
Its OK saying that this sounds a good way to play, but what happens when survivors decide that it's not worth playing.. Queues for killers are already long, when there are no survivors playing and Behavior starts having to add bots, how will that play, or worst still the game goes line many other online games and starts to die. Will it still be a great way to play?
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Heres a solution to camping and tunneling. Change the hooks to sacrifice points. Instead of hooking the survivor, with teammates needing to unhook them and get away, get the killer to place them in sacrifice area's. These then operate as teleports, on the third sacrifice the survivor is teleported to the entity, if it is the first or second then then another survivor can run to the sacrifice area, do a ritual that last the same time as an unhook, the killer can't hit in the teleport and then both the survivors are teleported to another part of the map. There would be no reason for the killer to camp, because he wont be able to down the survivors straight after the save, and would not be able to tunnel one person because they would be teleported somewhere else. They could still stay in the area and try and get another survivor before the save, but would encourage survivors to go for the save with a camping killer.
Or would this again be seen as taking away the killers advantage and call for killers to get upset?
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I think you have hit the nail on the head of all the toxicity on the game.
As you say, the survivor has a choice to do gens and escape, or do gens, go for saves and the other stuff, however a lot of this depends on what rank teams are matched together with and how the killer plays. Its as simple as this.
Good team / Good Killer - The game will last, each player will be willing to take hits, run the killer, go for the saves as well working on gens.
Bad team / Good killer - A game that you will find players hiding behind walls or in lockers, trying to avoid being seen, scared to do anything. The killer then looks like they are tunnelling the same good players as they just want to play the game
Good team / Bad killer - This is where you find the gen rush team and the camping killer. The killer chases one survivor sent to run the killer while the other play the game. The killer then catches that survivor and camps then, knowing that the other team will be able to do gens. The other survivors and don't bother going for the saves, they just escape.
Bad team / Bad killer - Just give up
Not to mention the killer that just slugs the team and leaves all four survivors to lay on the floor to bleed out, to get bloodpoints.
This is where the problem comes from. Survivors come into the game with the want to escape, to survive, after all there is no rule to say that you have to do anything other then get gens and get out. The killer comes into the game knowing they have to get kills, if they can't catch survivors or don't want to try, then they go for the one kill and get the blood points. There is nothing to say that they have to hook every survivor to get bloodpoints.
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There is a simple solution to stop camping and that is to take away the option of the reward. It would be as easy as having a power meter that changes power from the killer to the survivor on hook for a radius around the hook. If the killer is within that radius after a certain time, the killer gets weak and the chances of a hit on a survivor is less, at the same time the survivor has more chance of an unhook. If the killer wants to get the chance of a kill then they have to leave space. Other survivors will take the chance of the save and the killer has more chance of catching somebody else. If the killer is adamant that they want to face camp, then there is a chance that the survivor will escape the hook and the killer will not get the hit.
I'm sure that if killers was forced to play the game, then there would be less tunneling and camping. Note that I have played killer and know how easy it is to get into the habit of taking the easy way to get a kill. I play survivor more, but get more blood points by being a killer and getting the one hook, then being a survivor, doing gens and saves and then escaping. If I want to level up a survivor, I just can just play killer dirty for a few games. However, I have found it much more fun to play the game and chase the survivors, even if I lose the game.
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@DbD_Enjoyer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2536613#Comment_2536613
Here is my tactic for you:
I pick Leather Face > I down the first survivor > I camp with BBQ > They trade hooks > I get EASY points + SALT and barely played the game.
Find another match, rinse and repeat.
Efficiency... YES!
Your answer here shows what a toxic player you are. Your desire is like most campers, to get kills by the quickest and easiest way possible, without any skill. Then you will say that you have to do it because survivors gen rush, and when they beat you they get teabag at the gate. But you don't see that they gen rush and teabag, because you act toxic, camp and play with the quickest and easiest way possible. You show no skill, and so they show their feelings about you by the only way possible, which is to teabag at the gate.
I have played against killers that use skill. I have even given them the kill because they deserved it and let them hook me instead of leaving. I have even played without camping and had survivors let me kill them in fairness.
So here is my tactic for you. Learn to play the game, it will make the game far more fun and more rewarding for you, but I guess you are the sort of person who picks bastion on overwatch, because if you pick somebody else and can't shoot them, you get toxic because they moved.
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I see the argument that camping is OK because a team can work together to do gens and escape. Is that not the point of the game. At what point does the game say that survivors need to let the killer get kills. You don't watch motor racing and watch the fastest driver let the slow car past to win, or watch soccer and watch one team to let the other team score a few before they win.
If the survivors are working on gens together, then there is an opportunity to get them. There are killer perks that can slow down gens and make them regress, along with perks that show you where people are working on gens. If you want to slow them down then use them. If not work on being a better killer. Catching one survivor and standing by the hook does not make you better, such as a survivor just doing gens and watching a teammate die on hook with a camping killer help them get better at avoiding being killed.
Campers and tunnelers are their own worst enemy. They camp with the excuse that they have to, the reason they have to is because they cannot chase all the survivors, they pick on the new player because it is easy. The new player that will probably get fed up and not play the game again, leaving the killers with more experience players that can avoid the killer and do gens, with the killer never learning how to actually play.
I say this from the point of a new killer, who is learning to chase. Some games I get no kills, some one or more. I have learnt how to find survivors and slow them down without having to camp. It's not difficult, it just takes time and a willingness to learn.
Don't make excuses for your own laziness. It's not the game or the survivors. It is your choice not to try, and to just stand by one survivors hook.