VomitMommy
VomitMommy
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736010#Comment_3736010
It is not hiding behind bad survivors... Look at the usage rate of hyper focus, that perk would be a huge issue if people were good enough to properly use... But they don't so we need to take perks that trash players can use, because the niche scenario of someone being good enough to use it to its max is just not what happens in the majority of matches. And when we are talking about Gen times in general a small group gets averaged out rather fast.
I mean sure the Gen kick meta was the worst when it comes to Gen times, but then again it was so bad and it still took them ages. It should not have been a thing longer than a few days... Which is why I wouldn't want to take into account such extreme unbalanced scenarios. Same for ruin undying, people in comp didn't cleanse because it wasted too much time looking for the totem, which is kind of ridiculous xD
But sure technically you are probably right on that... I don't know though, Old ruin might have the crown still... As gens could basically stay at x percent all game long if you got unlucky.
Same for ruin undying, people in comp didn't cleanse because it wasted too much time looking for the totem, which is kind of ridiculous xD
Then later pop/ruin was more balanced and still way stronger than what we have now.
Look at the usage rate of hyper focus, that perk would be a huge issue if people were good enough to properly use...
But there are people who are good enough. Thing is if they are good enough, it's boring for them to use it.
So if we get clearly broken perk, it is fine as long pick rate won't get above 5%. That logic seems flawed to me.
Pick rate should not be a reason for preventing/creating nerfs. Neither high or low.
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What about giving you option to leave and get replaced by a bot if you get slugged at least minute in a row?
They would have to disable preventing healing on shift (could be replaced by M1, so you can use plot twist), so you can't stop teammates from picking you up and leaving.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736044#Comment_3736044
So there is no point talking about number, when effects and their impact is what matters. If impact is low, number doesn't mean anything.
Yeah, but none of his powers are dead weights, so they should be considered as a whole kit.
I would agree if there wasn't planned nerf already... Seems like devs don't agree with you.
Well, that might be because the stats don't agree with you. If Nightlight's anything to go by, he's got a 70% killrate, a whole 10 percentage points above the goal. That's pretty extreme.
Well, that might be because the stats don't agree with you. If Nightlight's anything to go by, he's got a 70% killrate, a whole 10 percentage points above the goal.
Most killers had high kill rate at release, not surprising.
Unknown had 70% on nightlight after release.
I thought you wanted more time to let players figure out how to play as and against the killer, suddenly nerf in first week is fine because of kill rate?
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736091#Comment_3736091
What no the pallet at 3:46 isn't a god pallet? It's a normal pallet loop.
Now regarding the pick up while the survivor is vaulting, that I do not know about either. I can see that not working however, as you mentioned.
Since when can you mind game that pallet as M1 killer?
You have to destroy it, if you to want hit.
That loop is definitely long enough for you to catch up even when you are not on top of survivor and there is no window close enough.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736098#Comment_3736098
Yes, but then what would stop them from disabling swinging in the casual mode?
I mean there are reasons to die on hook on purpose.
For ranked I would disable self unhook attempts too.
Basically if they adapt some rules from competitive scene, I would play it.
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@Rulebreaker said:
Splitting wouldn't work as you think. People above have explained already but we'll give it a try in our words.
It won't fully separate the "competitive" ones from the casual ones. Nothing stops a competitive mindset player from "practicing" in the casual mode with their full meta load out and hyper tunneling play style. The other hand it also doesn't stop the casual player from trying to play in the "ranked" mode with their casual build where 1 casual survivor does whatever and probably [censored] off the other 3 to high hell.
Separating modes into ranked and unranked would only (maybe as it's still not guaranteed) solve this at best: "quitters wouldn’t be playing rank or else you would lose your rank plus a heavy ban that stacks up the more you quit" but then you leave all the quitting in the casual que...guess which mode will start dying.
We are also obligated to point out rank means f all currently. You can be a high rank and still suck (how many p100s does it take to work on a gen?).
Separating modes into ranked and unranked would only (maybe as it's still not guaranteed) solve this at best: "quitters wouldn’t be playing rank or else you would lose your rank plus a heavy ban that stacks up the more you quit" but then you leave all the quitting in the casual que...guess which mode will start dying
They would have to disable completely suicides on hook.
That would actually make me play it tho...
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735904#Comment_3735904
Here is a good video that shows how the blocking of pallets is very strong even at normal loops. Go to 3:46 to see what I mean.
So basically block on god pallet, or hope survivor will drop the pallet in front of me.
Nea screwed it, shouldn't wait there.
Lifting when he wants to vault is interesting one, I will test this one and let you know how it went, but I don't think it's going to work if survivor is standing on pallet. You simply won't reach it and survivor just drop it again.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736025#Comment_3736025
Ah thanks, honestly I dont think thats too bad. The rest of his kit is just as strong and Mage Hand will stay strong
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736032#Comment_3736032
Oh I wasnt aware of that, but still 90 degrees is pretty damn generous considering how big the hitbox on it is compared to his body.
180 degrees is just plain dumb. J-Flicks and Oni's 180 was removed for a reason
honestly I dont think thats too bad. The rest of his kit is just as strong and Mage Hand will stay strong
I disagree…
All of his spells are going to have low impact, lot of counterplay and huge cooldown.
Oh I wasnt aware of that, but still 90 degrees is pretty damn generous considering how big the hitbox on it is compared to his body.
I wouldn't say his hitbox is big. It's not difficult to miss with it. I would say it's way smaller hitbox compare to Wesker, or Oni.
180 degrees is just plain dumb. J-Flicks and Oni's 180 was removed for a reason
Oni can still do 180 and I will be very annoyed if they remove it.
Oni would be quite bad, if he was limited to 90 degrees imo. There is a reason why there is not many console Oni players and when I play against them, they usually get destroyed.
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@NoOneAsked said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736055#Comment_3736055
Right now in the state of the game is you are playing just to play there is nothing to work towards once you are a seasoned player. Rank means nothing right now because you don't even lose pips so i wouldn't even see it as a rank. What's wrong with a little bit of stress for something you want and are working towards creates emotion therefore more meaning to actually play the game. Plus you only play rank if you want to rank is not for everyone.
Rank in dbd never had any value for most players.
Even before grades, whenever someone tried to bring "I am red rank" into argument, they were laughing stock. It didn't mean anything.
Why exactly would that change?
If I want to have something meaningful, I will go climb the ladder, or try tournaments. Simply because I believe that is test of skill. I don't believe ranked would be any different to casual mode.
It doesn't matter if it is casual or ranked, people still try to win. Only difference is people are less affected from results with casual mode.
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I have tested Skully and Hag on second end of portal and survivors didn't trigger it unless they immediately moved.
So maybe just look around after you enter the portal (or always crouch) when playing against those killers.
I don't think Trapper can put trap in a way survivor will always steps into it.
Why Pinhead?
Didn't you forget Nurse? I would guess she is going to be very annoying on that map, but didn't test it yet.
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@NoOneAsked said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736035#Comment_3736035
People that are competitive will play it and we see this in every game with a rank system. It's something to work towards and show off at the end which you wont get from playing casually.
Why would they? It's just additional stress for nothing.
If you think other mode would be actually "casual" then you are just naive.
People play exactly same, just usually less stressed.
I definitely won't care about it unless it's worth it (reward) and just stay on casual.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735758#Comment_3735758
My point is you can use it for only one of those in reality, because of cooldown.
But the cooldown is 40 seconds. So the only way these things intersect is if the chase is shorter than 40 seconds. And if you can consistently close chases in under 40 seconds, he's not exactly weak, is he?
I can create 10 powers, but it doesn't matter if only thing those powers do is make me slower and lose bloodlust.
No, it would depend entirely on what the powers do. If every 40 seconds, you could lock all gens for 30 seconds, you wouldn't give a damn about losing movespeed for a second or dropping your bloodlust.
It's overall outcome you need to look at and outcome is not good in my opinion.
But that's decidedly where we need more time to see where he falls. Currently, his kill rate is astronomical, and that'll undoubtedly also have to do with people having to learn to counterplay him, but I would -not- be surprised if he sticks at a high rating.
No, it would depend entirely on what the powers do. If every 40 seconds, you could lock all gens for 30 seconds, you wouldn't give a damn about losing movespeed for a second or dropping your bloodlust.
So there is no point talking about number, when effects and their impact is what matters. If impact is low, number doesn't mean anything.
But that's decidedly where we need more time to see where he falls
I would agree if there wasn't planned nerf already... Seems like devs don't agree with you.
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It would work only if you give valid rewards for rank system and blood points won't save it.
Otherwise people won't care imo.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735933#Comment_3735933
Chucky's flick is still in the game as far as Im aware so I dont know what other techs youre talking about
Also your friend wasnt promised anything. Again, live service games means changes are bound to happen, especially if theyre unintended.
Oni was a way different case. He had no turn limit when initially released (which was intended) and then they reduced that drastically to 45 degrees. Everyone, including the devs knew this was too bad of a nerf so they increased it to 90 degrees (al though you can go further with flicks)
Chucky's flick is still in the game as far as Im aware so I dont know what other techs youre talking about
Chucky used to be able to flick 180, they limited it to 90.
You can somewhat do it, if you look into the loop while charging tho.
Basically limit is created when you start dashing, so just look into the wall, slide sideways, then flick.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735909#Comment_3735909
First of all, when and where did they mention he's getting nerfed?
Second of all, if you buy a product purely because of its viability and not the actual gameplay thats on you. This is a live service game that makes balance changes on a regular basis. The product also remains practically the exact same, unless I completely missed the memo and his spells are just completely different which I know isnt the case.
First of all, when and where did they mention he's getting nerfed?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735898#Comment_3735898
Perks can be good without having requirements, there is nothing wrong with that. Not all perks can be S tier, some are completely average, but we also cannot pretend that a perk that saves you maybe 10-15 seconds a game is that superior, it is average/decent and that is OK, but nothing more.
I have never said it is best survivors can do, that is definitely hyperfocus build. You just tried to hide it behind bad survivors...
Do you think gen times are slower than during the meta I mentioned? If not, then my statement is correct.
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@Orionbash said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735874#Comment_3735874
No, I ignore the perks because gen slowdown via perks doesnt matter to me. But gens do take longer now at base rate. But my issue isnt with that. Im just saying that LP shouldnt be fine in its current state when everything else has been nerfed to make it easier for killers to win. How many handouts do killers need?
Well, you said you ignore perks.
So let's ignore Lethal pursuer too...
You don't get to select only what is handy for you. Lethal pursuer is not handout. Only thing it does is get you into chase faster. It won't help you end the chase faster, if you have issue with that, then work on your chase...
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735834#Comment_3735834
And how exactly is the survivor supposed to stun Vecna if he just blocks the pallet once he has catched up to the survivor enough?
That's the greed part. On most short loops you will manage to run around and just drop the pallet after it, even more so if you have boots against it.
Feel free to show me clips, how you get value out of holding pallets on anything but god pallets, which are usually long enough for you to catch up.
I will be more than happy to learn how to use it properly.
But on clip you showed me, Kate had option to just running. If she didn't stop to drop pallet she would reach the window, or loop that rock. That was simply missplay and nothing else.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735859#Comment_3735859
Yeah sure knowing which gens are close is nice, but it is still only average... How many gens are you going to do on your own during a normal match? Maybe 1 or 2?
Depends on your build.
With Stake out, Hyperfocus, Streetwise and Build to last all of them if needed...
Deja Vu is just easy to use, if you want to make it faster then combine it with resilience for extra 9%. You don't need to hit any skill checks for it and your chase gets better too... Of course it is not going to be that good, when it is so easy to use
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@Orionbash said:
Technically yes, I did say that. But Ive since retracted and said that I meant the base gen speed. I didnt mean to include perks in that statement.
So your statement literally doesn't matter, does it?
Gens in past used to be 80 seconds, and are 90 seconds now.
But you would like to ignore the perks, because it doesn't fit your narrative?
Reality is gens are same or faster.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735822#Comment_3735822
That the skill checks go faster is hard on most players, even the good ones. I would say there are other perks that give you better value if you are not a good player when it comes to hitting greats...
Deja vu is average at best... Do the match you get like 5 seconds less duration on a gen if you do it for the full duration... It is really not that good.
Do the match you get like 5 seconds less duration on a gen if you do it for the full duration... It is really not that good.
It's 5 seconds per gen you finish alone, but that expects killer to never regress the gen.
Ability to see closest gens is also valid in my opinion, because it simply sets your priority.
Build to last is also way better since then.
Right now it is possible to finish generator solo in 36 seconds, while killers ability to slowdown is way weaker.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735192#Comment_3735192
So the survivor is not playing based on current situation / not looking behind them. This is the effect of bad survivor. Otherwise I can see you casting it...
Not true. Charge time for Flight of the Damned is 0.2 seconds, and spawn time is 0.5 seconds. Survivors have to predict that Vecna will be using FoTD, because otherwise they will be stuck in animation and will get hit. They can't react to it. You just have to time FoTD perfectly.
I would argue timing his FoTD can have quite the skill ceiling. His macro play with his 4 abilities play into effect here as well, just like being able to switch between spells as fast as posible to always have the right spell up. I know I lost out on a few hits because I didn't switch quick enough to Mage Hand or FoTD when I needed to. But again, his skill ceiling isn't the highest among killers.
It's also fine if you are not interested in this killer, no killer can be for everyone. But that doesn't mean he should be unfair to verse.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735655#Comment_3735655
For some reason they want to nerf the duration too, so lifting pallet is just pointless on most loops, unless survivor is in dropping animation.
That's the point. You should have to predict when the survivor will drop the pallet and then use Mage Hand, because otherwise, if you can just react to the survivor dropping the pallet, there is no counterplay for survivors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls4Ni-mDlQQ
Watch this video at 6:35. Demi clearly reacts to the Kate dropping the pallet, so what exactly was the Kate supposed to do in this situation? Because if she didn't drop the pallet, Vecna would just catch up to her at the loop, and then he could block the pallet, getting a hit against her like that.
Watch this video at 6:35. Demi clearly reacts to the Kate dropping the pallet, so what exactly was the Kate supposed to do in this situation? Because if she didn't drop the pallet, Vecna would just catch up to her at the loop, and then he could block the pallet, getting a hit against her like that.
Greed the pallet and try to stun the killer by any means possible (in future update)
That's not any different to Nemesis, or Huntress. Every killer in correct situation has moment when survivor just get hit/downed.
Survivors can see Vecna is ready to cast mage hand. What is supposed to be unfair about this? It's no different to other killers.
Btw Pyramid head is using his power even if you stun him. (Unless they changed it without me noticing)
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735754#Comment_3735754
And barely anyone runs those Gen speed perks, because most people are too bad at the game to hit hyper focus skill checks...
But it is possible.... Stake out mostly fix the issue unless you can't hit any.
And anyone can run deja Vu, which I consider to be quite a good perk.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735384#Comment_3735384
How so? One item can't spawned multiple times?
Can it?
Orb got faster, so not really. I would guess like 6-7 seconds?
That's still 6-7 seconds more than most killers would get. And it'd synergise nicely with Dead Man's Switch.
That's why I can't use it for map traversal and in chase it usually only works on survivors, who don't expect it and get into dead zone.
Best use is after you injure survivor, but it definitely doesn't guarantee down, not even close. You just skip hold W part.You're going to have to explain this to me, because…
- You tell me you can't use it outside of chase because of its inhibitive cooldown.
- But you also don't use it in chase because it's not usable in chase. (So why would the cooldown limit out-of-chase usel?)
- But you also can use it in chase because you can skip the hold W part, which is actually a big timesink in chases.
Your argumentation here is a bit all over the place.
That would work if he was at least average at one of those, but he is not even that.
No, because he's got -four- powers.
This is the bruiser conundrum all over again. If you make kits that are this wide, and you have to balance them, the natural consequence is that, the wider the kit gets, the worse every aspect of it has to be. If you have a character that straddles four roles, then each of those roles can only operate at 25%. If they were all average, 50%, then you'd end up with a killer whose kit totals at 200%.
If you take his kit apart and weigh each aspect individually, yeah, he's going to seem weak. But Vecna combines -all of them- into one kit. That whole kit is what you need to look at. Not just his performance in chase, because then you're dismissing part of his kit.
And it'd synergise nicely with Dead Man's Switch.
That's an interesting idea how to make orb better...
You're going to have to explain this to me, because…
You tell me you can't use it outside of chase because of its inhibitive cooldown.
But you also don't use it in chase because it's not usable in chase. (So why would the cooldown limit out-of-chase usel?)
But you also can use it in chase because you can skip the hold W part, which is actually a big timesink in chases.
My point is you can use it for only one of those in reality, because of cooldown. So I don't think it's true statement that his map traversal is good.
And it's valid for chase, but still limited.
Don't take me wrong, I don't think Fly needs to change in major way, but I also don't think it is strong enough to carry Vecna'd power after Hand nerf.
No, because he's got -four- powers.
I can create 10 powers, but it doesn't matter if only thing those powers do is make me slower and lose bloodlust.
Like really, why orb has any slowdown?
If you take his kit apart and weigh each aspect individually, yeah, he's going to seem weak. But Vecna combines -all of them- into one kit. That whole kit is what you need to look at.
It's overall outcome you need to look at and outcome is not good in my opinion.
He has weak 1v1 and 1v4. That's not a good outcome.
Doesn't matter if he can somewhat do everything, when he is bad at everything.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735370#Comment_3735370
I mean comparing a decent time for gens with some of the worst atrocities out their when it came to dragging games for ages is a bit unfair, is it?
Why? He said there was never time we had slower gens, which is nowhere near true.
Current gen times same at best, or faster.
Yeah, survivors got +10 seconds on gens and kicking is slightly better, but all slowdown perks are lot worse compare to past and there is several gen speed perks we didn't have before.
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So who would be who (BG3 characters for DBD)?
Some might fit for killers too...
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735666#Comment_3735666
all the killer universally need generator buffs. you can argue for some of the killer needing chase nerfs but that is about it.
Then you can buff them all with this feature too if needed.
But you are not able to come up with way of slowdown that would help top tier killers in same amount compare to other killers. They will always be able to benefit from it more, which doesn't make sense to do.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735659#Comment_3735659
one of the worst idea's ever. Let's make it so that weaker killer have to use Hex:Ruin+Surge because they have 300% regression to further pigeon hold them into gen defence. The stronger killer are just as susceptible to gen-rush as weaker killers. The difference is that stronger killer have a chance to win while weaker killer get looped and lose.
Idea is not bad, just your approach is terrible....
We talk about 1-3% changes for kick and 0.15 differences on regression rates. Which could be enough for many killers.
There is no need to use this for nerfs anyway.
The difference is that stronger killer have a chance to win while weaker killer get looped and lose.
So it seems like strong killers don't need major buffs....
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@Devil_hit11 said:
Maybe they're going buff base gen defence. perhaps reason that they're weakening gen defence is for some room on base game changes.
Doubt it. This is kinda impossible to change in major way exactly because of massive power level differences between killers. Nurse x Trapper
I kinda liked Scott's idea to create new killer specific parameter (kinda like TR, movement speed) that would affect kick and regression speed %.
Basically only flaw is that BHVR would need to be able determine how strong killer is...
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734894#Comment_3734894
there are no situations where survivor cannot do anything. the situations where the survivor gets hit immediately after mage hand activation are survivor mistakes in playing poorly vs mage hand.
I am not sure how much nerf will do but i do not think the nerf needed to happen. this is jump-start nerf before survivor has adapted to the ability.
Nerf basically removes the only situation when there is nothing survivor can do →killer with enduring just walks through pallet.
For some reason they want to nerf the duration too, so lifting pallet is just pointless on most loops, unless survivor is in dropping animation.
Thing is, it would work on a god pallet, but do you really want to return god pallet to survivors?
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A nerf should be made to encourage players master this spell instead of giving free hits in a wide variety of loops.
Alright, show me how you get a hit on a loop except from lifting pallet right after survivor dropped it.
I am sure there are many ways, when it is possible to "master the spell".
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735218#Comment_3735218
This doesn't work, if survivors got item to see the orb. You basically get false information and let survivors finish the gen for free.
It'll still push them off the gen for a bit, because the item doesn't immunise them from it. And that's only one survivor that can have this benefit.
It's not that effective for map traversal. It's just more effective to keep it for chase, because cooldown are still high.
Isn't it 40 seconds? If you close out your chase within 40 seconds, you're winning anyway. Why do you care about the cooldown in that case?
But I don't think Vecna is good at neither 1v1, or 1v4. His map traversal is not that much better to any other M1 killer.
He is not good at spreading hits, because of his cooldowns and need to be close to a survivor for his power to do anything. You are not able to get long range hits, or get them fast on multiple survivors.You're not supposed to be good at any of the things you do because he gets ALL of them at the same time. A wide kit is never going to excel in any of its facets, otherwise you'd just get powercreeped.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735276#Comment_3735276
there's little to add here other than remind you that these 3 supports spells also have long cooldown and often players use them just because they are available
If you can't stop yourself from spamming spells off-cooldown, even in situations where this would not be helpful, then that is as clear an example as you could make of 'it's not the character, it's the player'.
Yes it's nice that you can throw an orb towards a nearby gen but if you do go towards that gen then why use orb there?
That's what I was talking about. Or are you trying to argue that sphere is bad because you can use it in an inefficient way?
Fly is a standard traversal, but you won't use it if there's nothing to defend nearby or you aren't sure if there's a survivor nearby.
Are you trying to argue that Fly is bad map traversal because it's not useful for going to places where you don't want to go?
Flight of the Damned is still horrible but at least you can try to use it from distance and behind the wall and maybe it will hit someone. I personally would give Flight of the Damned Killer Instinct, at least that would make the spell somewhat reliable.
Flight of the Damned is probably his weakest ability, but I can imagine that more skilled players can use it to be properly disruptive in chase.
Hand of Mage is his staple power. If you've seen killer use it then you know that for the next 38 seconds ( unless there are addons involved ) this killer can't do anything to you if you are near the pallet. Play around it and you'll see what options does Vecna have when his main power is in CD.
Then you just play the chase as normal and benefit from the rest of your kit when the time comes to use them. Be tactical about the way you use those abilities.
And that's only one survivor that can have this benefit.
How so? One item can't spawned multiple times?
It'll still push them off the gen for a bit,
Orb got faster, so not really. I would guess like 6-7 seconds?
Isn't it 40 seconds? If you close out your chase within 40 seconds, you're winning anyway. Why do you care about the cooldown in that case?
That's why I can't use it for map traversal and in chase it usually only works on survivors, who don't expect it and get into dead zone.
Best use is after you injure survivor, but it definitely doesn't guarantee down, not even close. You just skip hold W part.
You're not supposed to be good at any of the things you do because he gets ALL of them at the same time.
That would work if he was at least average at one of those, but he is not even that.
Closest thing I can find to Jack of All Trades is Skull merchant and she at least has one of best stealth mechanics.
Vecna is not even close to being best at any aspect.
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@Orionbash said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735346#Comment_3735346
Theyre still slower than they ever have been. Find me any other time in DBD where gen speeds were slower. Lol. You cant. They were always faster.
Of course I can, Ruin Undying meta... Combine it with Infinite tinkerer and we were playing for a while.
Gen kick meta? That was also way longer games.
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I would understand to disable pain res if survivor dies, not really % nerf...
Pop should get 25% imo.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735293#Comment_3735293
Yes friend, thats my point
When I say aura reading should receive a basekit nerf I'm actually baiting people to agree that Distortion is fine
Many people want Distortion to be nerfed.
You might not be one of those people but they can read this conversation as well
Yeah, that's really not outcome I would guess from that comment.
I don't really mind distortion, but it's the hiding gameplay overall, what is annoying.
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@Ohyakno said:
What's your idea?
At least replace them with a bot (if survivor misses two skill checks on hook).
Definetly not best, but better than nothing.
Overall I think some give up system should be made for both sides. Definetly not something super easy to do, just to fix outliers, when one side tries to torture the other. -
There are things to slow gens, but they are just all worse, which is going to lead to some frustrating gameplay for sure.
You can always just go for tunnel, that was/is/will be (until they create another basekit feature) best slowdown you can get.
I am going to play killers, but I will just play killers, I am confident winning even without slowdowns…
and just bleed out whoever tries to sabo
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735207#Comment_3735207
Lol you got to my point
I will defend Distortion at all costs. It should never be nerfed
Then there is no reason to nerf any aura reading perk as long an ultimate counter perk exists.
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So did some testing with my friend to check on portal interactions.
Twins: Victor is not able to get through portal
Knight: Guards get stuck and just are running into wall
Deathslinger: as soon survivor starts animation, you can't shoot them
So have fun… -
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734992#Comment_3734992
This means those 3 ''support'' spells as they are don't decide the outcome of the game much.
See, that's the part I just don't buy.
Sure, it's better to close chases fast. But there's idle time between chases too, and Vecna's support spells deal with that. You don't have to check up on multiple gens if you can just send out an orb to check one for you. You don't have to spend a long time moving from one end of the map to the other if you have flight. In a game of five or six chases alone, this can easily add up to over a minute of time saved.
A short chase isn't the only way to be efficient. There's stuff happening between and outside chases too that you seem to consider entirely irrelevant.
Even Fly has its in-chase use, allowing you to quickly close the gap created by the on-hit sprint. Which you also disregard.
The more you insist that ONLY his in-chase, immediate, hit-securing power matters, the more it comes off as you not understanding the killer.
You don't have to check up on multiple gens if you can just send out an orb to check one for you
This doesn't work, if survivors got item to see the orb. You basically get false information and let survivors finish the gen for free.
You don't have to spend a long time moving from one end of the map to the other if you have flight
It's not that effective for map traversal. It's just more effective to keep it for chase, because cooldown are still high.
There's stuff happening between and outside chases too that you seem to consider entirely irrelevant.
It is relevant, you have killers with bad 1v1, but good 1v4. Like Legion, Ghost face, Hag etc.
But I don't think Vecna is good at neither 1v1, or 1v4. His map traversal is not that much better to any other M1 killer.
He is not good at spreading hits, because of his cooldowns and need to be close to a survivor for his power to do anything. You are not able to get long range hits, or get them fast on multiple survivors. -
@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735160#Comment_3735160
Theres a perk for that
Theres a perk for your issue too. Just use Distortion, if you don't want to be revealed.
I am so glad you tried to use this argument… Made my job way easier. -
@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735158#Comment_3735158
Well sure, but that doesn't detract from the situations where survivors know what they are doing but still get hit because you used FoTD properly.
FoTD is not that good at standing pallets, true, but it does depend on where the survivor is positioned at a pallet loop. Also, if you predict that a survivor will drop the pallet they are running at, you can drop FoTD on top of their heads while they are in the pallet animation to get a hit.
I have gotten plenty of M1 hits against survivors because they were forced to crouch in front of the window and then medium vaulted. Not sure what you are doing wrong to not be able to replicate that.
I would argue his skill ceiling isn't that low. There are definitely timings to get right with him. But it's also not as high as say Singularity, that's for sure.
Also, if you predict that a survivor will drop the pallet they are running at, you can drop FoTD on top of their heads while they are in the pallet animation to get a hit.
So the survivor is not playing based on current situation / not looking behind them. This is the effect of bad survivor. Otherwise I can see you casting it...
I would argue his skill ceiling isn't that low. There are definitely timings to get right with him.
What is supposed to be difficult? You don't need any fast movement, or precise.
You don't need completely different playstyle compare to normal M1 killer.
Vecna is just M1 killer most of the times. Only thing you need to know are situations when to use your power and don't even try in any other situation. That's like Clown...
And even when it works the effect is not that good with really high cooldown.
I am happy for you, that you enjoy him so far. But I am not interested in killer, where I know for 100% I am going to get very frustrated gameplay from time to time.
His chase is highly limited, his skill ceiling is medium at best, his 1v4 is also bad.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735160#Comment_3735160
Also Alien Instinct only shows the aura of an injured survivor so it would automatically become a gutted perk if this change were to go through.
It's clearly not a well thought out idea
A Nurse's calling has an issue too with it…
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As a Jeff main, I definitely think it got over nerfed...
Either make it 75% all the time, or not work while exhausted.
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I like playing as Twins.
Kinda annoying how ugly they are and bad skins tho... I want to play Dead by Fashion with my killers
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Sure, if injured survivor actually work slower on gens. They are injured, why should they be equally efficient?
50% should do the trick, that would motivate survivors to heal.
Funny to say "keep aura reading as it is, then nerf it into oblivion"
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735021#Comment_3735021
That's not true. Using FoTD to deny vaults or pallets has nothing to do with the survivors positioning. Or the fact that they don't pay attention. What on earth?
If they don't pay attention, they won't crouch to dodge. Not difficult to understand.
I think we have already established that Fotd is bad on standing pallets, simply because survivor is able to drop pallet faster than you can attack.
It works on windows with only limited use, it's not really good for it either. You need be near enough for survivor to not be able to just vault after it, or continue running around it you also need to use a lot in advance so survivor can't just vault and crouch after it. It's not like you can use it on reaction against vaults, it is too slow for it.
One possible buff I can see is simply let Vecna attack right after casting it, then it actually does what you described, but not really right now.
Right now, Vecna has actually low skill ceiling. You need to only know things (situations), that's basically on level of Clown.
You have few situations where you power actually works, any other situation it's pointless to try, just lost distance and bloodlust. You can't get value out of it with your skill. Probably only exception is Fly, that's why I wouldn't change this one.
Only other thing that can increase your effectiveness, are bad survivors...
It's pointless to go for long range shots, you can't surprise survivors on gens.
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The survivor counters aren't that good.
Is it too difficult to crouch for you?
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Just run into tower and you win.
Not like it's difficult to get there. That map is worse than Garden of joy.
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https://youtu.be/6VSyvbt439s?si=tD6hrXV9FPIZN1ok@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734858#Comment_3734858
I'm not even talking about the pallets. The windows on the "dungeon" can garantee three safe vaults against most of the killers if they don't have bamboozle. Unfortunately i could not find another video of someone looping in this on Youtube, but a friend of mine held the killer for minutes in these windows, specially since there is perfect checkspots in case the killer do a double back and try to mindgame.
Hens333 was commenting about the map these days in his live but i couldn't find the vod.This guy displayed it quite well in my opinion.