VcatoV86
VcatoV86
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/337758/survivors-aiding-killers
Honestly if you can, record those games and report them and add it to your ticket. It might work or it might not, but on the off chance that it does and they get banned, then at least people like that will learn not to behave like that.
Also, this isn't just the case since the update. I've had a lot of matches with these sorts of survivors, the worsts ones are those that keep on trying to unhook you/let go non-stop whilst you're on 2nd hook, then get hatch themselves and have the audacity to say ggwp in EGC.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097853#Comment_3097853
Maybe actually read the entirety of what OP wrote, instead of coming in hot and putting the blame on them? Or are you just trying to be a contrarian for the sake of it with no ground to stand on or to back up your point?
Thank you for this information. The next time it happens, I will record it.
You are right about encountering people like this before. I just wanted to find out if I was having an unusual increase in this behavior recently or if others were also experiencing it more than "normal."
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097963#Comment_3097963
I personally haven't seen more survivors actively helping killers since the patch, but I've seen more people soft-surrendering and living on the killer's mercy. (Which, I mean. If the killer is okay sparing me I accept that and keep doing gens.)
Killers who have mercy or give hatch are much rarer since the update, in my experience, but should be appreciated for caring for the fun / rewards all players.
That's good to hear. I didn't notice it last week, but I have certainly seen it all too frequently this week. You are correct, though. The soft surrender is much more rampant. As others have said on this forum, if you don't want to play, then don't! I get when a match is bad or when you are up against your 10th slowdown legion in a row. You might feel like giving up. At the very least, though, try to help out your teammates and see if you can let them escape.
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@Akumakaji said:
Well, what ever the case, this thread once again showcased one thing crystal clear: people have VASTLY different standards and ideas of how things should be handled, be it tunneling, camping, slugging, gen rushing, healing or whatever else. BHVR can literally never win at the game of tweaking DBD, and thats a fact.
I do agree and sympathize with their situation. All that you can do is to try and make the most out of an icky situation. Making basekit out of BT at least shows that they are trying to address camping and tunneling. I just honestly have no idea how the reporting system works. For the longest time, I felt like it simply existed as a way for players to "vent their frustrations," so to speak, without actually being addressed or viewed by the developers.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Another thing that should be discussed are survivors that refuse to help spread the hook states. There have been so many games where 2 survivors are dead, the 3rd survivor has been hooked twice, and the 4th survivor has been hooked 0 times. That 4th survivor is sandbagging the whole team.
I agree with this most of the time. Of course I am going to focus upon the objectives. However, if I see someone who has 2 hooks being chased, of course I am going to go run interference and try to get the killer to focus upon me.
Now, when it comes to hard camping, there really isn't much to do but gens. I've even been slugged at a hook and the killer refused to pick me up, waiting for the person to die.
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@camping_site said:
After 3-4 years maining survivor I must admit last patch was a sign that I must be looking for a new game. In the first days, since likely I had high mmr, soloQ team managed max maybe 3-4 gens until 4K. After several of these matches I likely downgraded my mmr and luck changed, but the feel of the killers was just bad- complete babies, which didn't make that experience any fun.
What I noticed in most of my after patch matches?! Killers still run slowdown, regression perks. Killers still proxy camp, tunnel. That 5 sec BT does #########. And since gen repair nerf to 90 sec, camping is so much stronger. Actually, the same could be noticed after toolboxes, great skill checks and gen co-op was nerfed year or so ago, but not to this extent.
DBD just made every aspect of this game worse for survivor experience. I doubt they will revisit any changes in coming months, so... saying goodbye to great DBD community... Killer mains as well :):)
I'm sorry to hear this. And frankly (though....really, am I?) a bit shocked at how many people provide toxic responses. I know that these posts have become more common and that it is almost a meme to respond "bye." However--and maybe because I have a bit of compassion? a desire to understand?--I think that it is important to listen to those who are leaving.
Hopefully a good break will see both you and the issues you have faced resolved. Regardless, good luck and have fun.
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097939#Comment_3097939
Whether she realised he was camping or not (which, I mean, if killer downed her, he had literally no reason to f off to another part of the map), that doesn't excuse the bad manners afterwards, she still sold her teammate to the killer in spite even though she'd been rescued once.
Her anger should have been at the killer, not at the survivor who had already tried once to rescue her.
Thank you for saying this.
You know, I kind of feel bad. I only provided an example as just that...an example. I wanted to generate a discussion focused upon survivor behavior since the patch. Because there are other threads about hook suiciding, running up to the killer/giving up, and DCing, my hope was to bring up a conversation about another thing that I have noticed frequently since the patch: survivors helping killers.
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@Carth said:
What if she didn't feel he was camping and saw her teammate abandoning her to work on a gen until she bled out for hatch? Proxy camping has such a loose definition, is it crazy to think she thought you could have saved her?
The first time, I would understand. He was standing behind a wall outside of her viewing range. However, the second time, he was walking circles around her, constantly in her view.
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@Sludge said:
I bet you hid for the full slug and pissed both players off
Like I said, she was close to bleeding out once I saw that he was proxy camping her for a second time. So I went to work on a gen on the opposite side of the map. What else should I have done? Killers deserve a 4k? By that logic, I should just run up to the killer at the start of the map, refuse to do objectives, and let them kill me.
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@HugTheHag said:
Urgh, denying the 4rth survivor a chance at hatch is really a d*ck move in itself in the first place, but that Meg was an a-hole to do that.
I've had a similar experience last week, a Mikaela kept crawling towards me with the killer in tow. She clearly got tired of the game, not that I blame her for being frustrated.
These killers are so entitled to their 4rth kill, the other day the same situation happened except my friend was the slugged survivor, and he just wasted the killers time crawling in random directions. We had agreed that he would bleed out and I would try to find hatch. I did, and in the postgame chat the killer was insulting me like crazy, so furious that I didn't come to die at their feet.
I am sorry to hear about this situation. It is, unfortunately, all too common. The reason that I made this post was to see if others have seen an increase in this behavior since the last patch.
Is it because of rampant camping/tunneling? Is it survivors upset by the meta change? Is it some form of protest? Who knows. But it makes me very wary of new games now because of how rare it is to find a game where survivors just...play the game.
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@Dunkinspunkin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/337758/survivors-aiding-killers
So let me get this straight. You sold your teammate out by abandoning her to die, and you're confused as to why she pointed you out? You made a choice. You opted for the safe route for you, so she denied you that safety. I'm not saying you were in the wrong to prioritize yourself, but you made your bed then you had to lie in it
How did I sell her out?
She was downed once and Michael "went to hunt for me." I crept over, healed her up, and he came back (proxy camping). I knew that this would happen, so I led him on a chase across to the other side of the map, giving her an opportunity to heal up and work on gens.
After a long chase, the killer lost me. He went back and she was standing in the exact same place where she had been downed. Again, I crept around to see if he was proxy camping her and he was. So yes, in that situation, I abandoned her. She was dead anyway.
Why am I in the wrong? Are you arguing that survivors always have an obligation to intentionally and knowingly get themselves killed? If Bubba is face camping and revving his chainsaw, my obligation is eat the instadown instead of trying to finish gens so that the other 3 can get out?
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@Biscuits said:
If you record it and send it in on the dbd website this is against ToS, I have had it happen multiples almost always during the slug for 4k. Even had a TTV do it to me once and when I pointed out what they did was a temporary ban they basically spent the next 20 minutes berating me in their stream.
I had no idea that you could do this.
Again, I have just been surprised lately. There is always the random, odd encounter like this. But the frequency has certainly increased since the patch (mixed with DC/hook suicide).
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@Teslaboi said:
The situation that happened to you in game was unfortunate
I just wanted to pop in and say that the devs do stuff about reports. I don't encounter hackers frequently for example, but I can say every single one I've reported has a ban on record when I check their profile after a few days/weeks since reporting.
This is fascinating. I swear I read a thread where people said that they have tested reporting and nothing ever happened. I try not to use it in a toxic way (being salty, "revenge") and instead focus on the actual categories and definitions.
This does give me some hope. Thank you!
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I'm surprised that I keep hearing people (killers) state, over and over again, that it is the nerf to DH/DS/Survivor meta that is causing so many issues.
To be honest, I haven't seen it. Does it exist? I am sure. Statistically, there have to be people out there who are upset enough to give up/dc/suicide. But if you spend any time on the forums, Reddit, Twitter, etc., you will see, overwhelmingly, that survivors are sick and tired of camping and tunneling.
I gave the game a break for a few days because of how rampant it was post patch. After having played the past 2 days, all but 1 of my games has had a camping/tunneling killer. People still complain about it all the time on social media.
Here's the truth: I welcome the meta shakeup and the nerfs. I have no doubt that they will continue to work on it. But come on....why is camping and tunneling so rampant? It makes the game boring.
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@MilManson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080205#Comment_3080205
Actually, the maps were reworked as consoles couldn't handle the newer game engine upgrade so they had to remove all the fog/light/dark offerings, "next gen" (lol) can still barely play the game, we would still have them old map offerings if the game was PC only.
That is partially true, yes. But part of their consideration for changing up the maps (and designing new maps in the future) was to get rid of Blendette. The devs openly stated this.
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Developers have been listening almost exclusively to killers. For years.
Don't believe me?
1.) "Maps are too dark. I can't find Blendette!" Maps were redesigned and brightened.
2.) "Loops are too hard! They are godloops!" Almost* (all?) godloops were erased. Most decent loops were taken out as well.
3.) "Gens pop too quickly! I can't do anything!" Gen time was increased.
4.) "Hooks are too far apart! Survivors are abusing this!" Hooks were brought closer together.
5.) "Deadhard is too much! They get 2 seconds extra time in a chase/miss my hit (even though they gained exhaustion)!" DH was nerfed.
6.) "Decisive strike is not fair! If they are down, I deserve to get a hook!" DS was nerfed.
7.) "Flaslights are too OP! I can't play against them!" Flashlights were adjusted/overhauled.
8.) "Keys and hatches are not fair! I deserve to kill everyone!" Keys and hatch were nerfed.
Now before you say: "Well, killers were a little underwhelming and SWF was too strong"--I agreed! But gain some perspective on just how much the devs always, for years, have catered to the killers.
Complaining about forever Legion is the least of your concerns.
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I don't think survivors are losing their minds at all. They are reacting to very real concerns. Let's take a look at a few things.
1.) Killers complained for years. Some of this was legitimate, some was not. Of particular concern: there were too many godloops (or even high tier loops), too many maps favored survivors, too many perks gave survivors extra chances to escape chases, gens popped too quickly, flashlights were too effective (pre adjustment), hooks were too far apart making sabotage too strong, maps were too dark making blendette a reality, etc. While many of these issues were compounded by SWF groups, killers still felt like they were very weak against survivors. In every single one of these instances, developers addressed the issue to favor the killer.
2.) Developers used to have a standard of 2k, 2e. 50% kill rate. Because killers, in your own words, "lost their mind," developers decided to increase their expectations for this amount. In a recent letter/data dump, they revealed that the rate is now up to 60% kill rate. They still said that they were unhappy with this number. I do not think that they want to increase it that much, but my guess is that they want to try to hit a rate of 3k, 1e.
3.) Having made all of these subtle, minute changes, they realized that killers were still getting their *** handed to them by skilled SWF groups. In some streams, the developers didn't even believe it! When faced with how powerful these SWF groups can be, the developers were stunned. Therefore, they decided to implement even more changes to assist killers.
So what's the problem? The data also shows that the vast majority of players are not a 4man SWF. Many are solo q, a large percentage are 2 man groups, and some 3. Additionally, and perhaps most surprising of all, they decided against an incremental approach where they can gather data, view the changes, and adjust as needed. Instead, they went nuclear: not only were they going to drastically shake up the meta (much needed, in my opinion), but they were also going to buff killers.
Some thought was put into how to prevent tunneling and camping, as that has easily become the most dominant strategy for the vast majority of killers (or, at the very least, tunnel 1-2 out so that the gens wouldn't pop so quickly). Unfortunately, by keeping hook timers the same and by increasing the overall average time to complete gens by 50%, they in fact buffed camping and tunneling.
As a result, we now have a situation where survivors--especially the majority in solo q or a smaller group, are now being repeatedly clobbered by killers. Killers are still camping and tunneling with impunity because, for many, getting the 4k is the most important thing in the world (as a random wondering, could this be due to the fact that they have increasingly added extra objectives for survivors in an effort to slow the game down while not doing likewise for the killer?).
Nowhere did I say that killers did not need to be buffed. Nowhere did I say that survivors did not need a meta shakeup.
But the fact that survivors are "losing their mind" (especially if you took a moment to read what they are really saying) points out a very real problem that the devs refuse, so far, to address.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079971#Comment_3079971
My day's been alright! Been better, but I can't complain (any more than I have). Probably going to do some painting in a little bit to relax.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079980#Comment_3079980
So I actually don't mind if a killer tunnels a survivor off their first hook at 5 gens. On occassion I'm guilty of it, when I want to play a chill game as killer; I'll mentally rule that death hook survivor off-limits the rest of the game, or until I need a sacrifice for late-game pressure.
But throwing a survivor on death hook at 4-5 gens, when you don't have at least 4 hooks already, just feels like pouring salt on the wound.
We can't control other people, but I definitely wish more killers had the self-control to ease off that gas pedal once they've asserted their dominance.
I completely understand. As I have said elsewhere, I get that sometimes, that is just the luck or the draw.
My problem becomes when this *is* the new meta. When jt happens every single game. When you know that, first found, first out.
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This is the new meta the devs intended, don't you know?
I agree with TheGannMan. I never tunnel or camp as a killer--yes, even when I have a toxic SWF group and get my first down after all gens have popped (pre patch).
I really do not understand.
Nevertheless, here we are. And it has been every single one of my games since the patch (and most since the anniversary event).
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@SoloQKev said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079887#Comment_3079887
Exactly, I've been noticing that 5-second BT built-in doesn't even last that long. I got bored today and played killer and laughed how even easy it was. Even streamers like hexy who is a killer main is saying this is strong. Also, watched a few other killer mains which I just wanted to see there take on it and they said it was easy. I understand SWF but please BHVR help us solo out this is F awful.
I fully agree with this.
SWF has always been a problem with killer. But look. I am no expert by any means. However, I have been playing for about 6 years. Of that time, about 60% has been survivor, 40% killer.
Here's the thing about SWF. If your game is terrible--move on!
Survivors have had to put up with this for years (the infamous camping Bubba). You get a bad game, you move on. In my experience, the toxic SWF groups that just made the game miserable were few and far between. Was the game survivor sided for a long time? Yes. Did the meta need a shakeup? Also yes. Did it need a balance back towards killer power? Finally, yes.
But they swung the bat so far to the other side that they have made the majority of games miserable for solo q survivors. Instead of running into a random toxic SWF as killer, or a random camping Bubba as survivor, I now look forward to just having a decent game. Not even escaping--I have given up all hope for that to be even 10% of my games. No, I just want a game where we can have some good chases (many have been nerfed into the ground), fun gen pressure, risky saves and heals, etc.
But now, it is camp and tunnel fest on steroids. There is absolutely zero excuse for this. The devs had a long time to figure this out. They have a PTB (why? what's the point?). They could have rolled out changes incrementally to see how it would have impacted the community.
Instead, they wanted to drop a bomb on the game. And they absolutely do not care because we have had radio silence (well, except for anything that gives them money! *money pleaasssseeee*).
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@Oscarnator said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079887#Comment_3079887
Yea ig but pre-patch I could at least carry my team with doing 3-4 gens by myself. Now with the new patch everything is so much more punishing. That doesn’t even add on to the fact that Tomes pretty much make survivors throw the game if you want to finish it quickly. Sucks being un hook knowing there is literally nothing you can do unless you run a very specific build.
Oh I fully agree. This is 100% a solo q issue.
I used to have friends who played this game, but they were all driven away by the toxicity, the punishing MMR (because they weren't regular players, playing with me meant that they got killers well out of their league, making it impossible for them to do anything), and the rise of repeated camping and tunneling.
As always, because of streamers and revenue, the developers had a choice: do we support the majority of our playerbase (solo q or small swf like 2 people), or do we appease a small minority who generate revenue for us. They chose the latter.
Look, I understand how business works. I understand that they have to make money. But every gaming company, lately, seems to have fallen for the same trap: appease the "whales," game dies. Look at a game like FFXIV. While it does have content for the hardcore elite and the streamers, they made it easy, balanced, and enjoyable for a large playerbase. Consequently, they have only continued to increase both the number of players and their revenue.
You will never be able to please everybody. But Behavior should take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask themselves what kind of game they truly want.
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Look, I have given the game a few days to evaluate the patch. Not a single thing has changed.
Killers camp and tunnel with no penalty.
They easily eat the BT base kit change.
Getting more than 3 gens done is lucky.
Killer gets a 4k.
This has been in every. Single. Game. Without fail.
Honestly, unless you have a SWF, what is the point of playing survivor now?
I have never seen queue times this long for survivors in the 6 years u have been playing. Even longer than any killer queue time I have had to go through. There's a reason for this, but Behavior doesn't care. They only want money.
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This game will die for one simple reason: devs do not care for survivors. They only care about two things (as is evident by their last survey):
1) what do streamers think? They bring in the money.
2) do killers have a "long" (subjective) wait time.
Now that killer requires zero effort for 4k and streamers can punish swf, the devs don't care. At all.
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How are SWF thr majority? I have been playing killer for years and rarely encounter it
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With 50s added to gen times, killers now have longer to camp and tunnel with less penalties. Eating endurance is faster than earing DS.
What were the devs thinking?
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072001#Comment_3072001
You said killers were already getting 3ks, so if the devs want killers to kill more they want killers to 4k now? Just basic math lol, you're caught in your own words. Stop pretending to be a both sides player when you're clearly a survivor main, does it make you feel tough saying "i play killer too"?
In the US, math standards indicate that you understand decimals by the 4th grade. A refresher, perhaps?
Is 2.8 to 3.2 an increase?
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That doesn't give numbers. My my you need critical reasoning skills. College is a great option.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071937#Comment_3071937
If killers had a 3 kill 1 escape win rate, the devs wouldn't even think of buffing them lol. "Killers have had it easy for years". Try again survivor main.
Clearly you do not follow the devs and you do not look at the data. It is not my job to assuage your poor skills and educate your ineptness.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071903#Comment_3071903
Sounds like you hate the fact that killers have finally been buffed a bit. Survivor main vibes, stop pretending you play both sides lol.
Killers have had a 3k1e win rate for months now. The dev data has even proven it. If you can't even hit the aggregate....again, try the tutorial!
I've played for 6 years as both killer and survivor. Killers have had it easy for the past 2 years. Again, you would know...if you knew how to play killer.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071850#Comment_3071850
Sounds like something an entitled survivor main would say.
Not my problem. I play both equally and never have any issues with killer. Sure, the occasional SWF that is toxic. But I can deal with one bad game. Because, you know....I can play the game?
Try the tutorial if you need help!
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@spiritsLeftball said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071740#Comment_3071740
I only read posts on this forum, and majority of people who are announcing their departure, are survivors complaining about perk changes, I don’t think I’ve seen a single one about tunneling, gen speed yes.
Keep reading then😀
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
The basekit changes are definitely helping M1 killers in chase. The dead hard nerf is rewarding killers for outplaying a survivor in a loop, no more "press E to outplay". People used to dread playing killer but these new changes will definitely attract more killer players. Gens are still being done quickly, but the chases are feeling more rewarding and fun now. What can i say, killer is actually feeling like killer now.
And survivor mains over reacting that the game has become killer sided, just know that you need killers to even have dbd, and before this patch, killer was at a miserable state and few people actually bothered playing it. Survivors just want a 4 on 1 stomping every game. As survivors you have to survive, it doesn't have to be a 4 man domination every game, and the killer shouldn't be your punching bag.
Hope they keep these changes, and not listen to survivor main cry babies who always like their games in easy mode.
Lol sounds like you just need to learn how to play killer. They have been fine for years.
Tired of SWF? Just play through and hope for better in the next game. That's what survivors have had to do for all the incessant tunneling and camping.
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I don't think (from all of the forum posts, twitter and reddit threads, etc.) that most survivors are dcing or giving up because of the nerfs.
They are doing so because of rampant tunneling and camping--even though this patch was supposed to curtail those problems.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071542#Comment_3071542
because you can't know if you're going against that beforehand, and you don't find out until its too late to change your playstyle or mentality. Many killers sweat the first survivor out asap then start playing more chill if theyre ahead in the 3v1. Its a lot more fun to play for hooks than kills, but if you do get a sweat squad they're going to do the most damage at the start, so starting chill and turning up the heat will always be a losing strategy in that case. I've said in other topics that the biggest issue with the game is that survivors are far too strong at the start, while being too weak at the end in its natural progression: the more survivors die, the harsher the efficiency cap on the remaining ones. They're encouraged to get as much damage as possible done early while the killer's advantage normalizes and then grows in proportion to each interaction and wasted resource. People have developed a lot of different playstyles to help offset this, and it was one of the biggest arguments for slowdown builds... Instead they just butchered all the builds and tactics except for camping and tunneling, and slugging to an extent.
One of the strongest arguments for being able to see SWF has been so that killers can decide if they need to force that advantage as early as possible in order to be viable. If they feel cornered right off the bat with every single match, they're going to try to be as efficient as possible regardless of how it affects other people's games. Just like how if a bubba is facecamping i'm not moving away from that generator until he at least leaves kindred's aura range. It becomes the smartest move when the alternative is straight up counterproductive.
Oh its also worth noting on the above efficiency shift observation, I think that survivors should be weaker than they are at the start of the game, but stronger than they are after teammates die. just to avoid any confusion.
I can agree with this:
let killers see which survivors are in a group.
Or, I have seen other people offer up these ideas:
allow voice coms
create a chat wheel with basic chat commands ("I am going for the unhook" / "I am finishing a gen") etc.
I do agree with you that the "winning" strategy for a killer is to try hard and sweat at first. However, I never do this and I still "win" the majority of my games.
The question becomes: how do you define "winning" for a killer? Like I said earlier, it used to be that 2e/2k was the draw. With survivors being so powerful back then, this made killers feel like they were doing very little.
Now, from the data that the devs have shared, we see that 3k/1e is the norm. This takes into account games with SWF because it is an average.
So then we go back to your point about trying to balance against so many variables. What we have seen is that they have taken a very specific approach: balance for the top tier games, focus upon reducing survivor power because of SWF, empower killers. This has been going on for years.
None of it, as you say, solves the underlying issue. At this point I wonder if the devs even care to do so?
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071433#Comment_3071433
OR:
Survivor side has too many exploitable abilities with coordination that make it impossible to balance, with absolutely zero downside or penalty. On top of that, more and more killer strategies keep getting gimped to the point that the dreaded T&C are mathematically their most viable play by a large margin when the situation presents, with rng sometimes forcing their hand. The devs keep doubling down on the chaotic variables in the game trying to balance one another with averages instead of actually putting thought and consideration into their changes and design philosophies, and its only frustrating all parties involved the more time goes on. Every game is inherently going to be unfair and potentially unwinnable with the sheer amount of free radicals that can completely break games in one direction or the other.
Its not a killer or survivor issue, its a game design one. There is a lot of decay that needs to be excised asap, and people are constantly fighting over the symptoms while ignoring the causes.
In many ways I agree with this. A lot of people have commented about the fact that it is trying to balance around SWF that is the true issue.
But again, when I play killer, I run up against SWF occasionally. Knowing that a small section of my games are going to be against toxic survivors that make it very difficult to do anything is just a part of the game. Why? Because, as killer, most of the games are not like that. It is how I used to approach the old camping and tunneling: meh, next game.
Nerfing solo q repeatedly, while acquiescing to killer's frustrations against SWF, means that yes, survivors as a whole (because most do not run 4man SWF) have seen an increase in toxicity.
Why can killers not just accept that some games will be bad and move on? Why do they need to kill 4k every. single. game?
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071294#Comment_3071294
1 survivor isn't supposed to be able to do the work of 4. All you can do is play your best and hope your allies are too, and that their best is at least reasonable. Bad teammates in solo is yet another of the millions of layers of rng variables to this game, for better or worse.
Its why i focus on improving more than escaping. If I keep consistently getting better, i'm able to offset more and more of the bad play from teammates... and while it'll never be to the point i can solo carry ever single game, it has been helping my survival rate considerably.
I've been playing for just under 6 years. For about a year or 2, I had 1-2 friends who would occasionally play. They were driven away by the continued increase in tunneling and camping.
For the longest time I had your perspective. I kept practicing and was routinely in red 1. After the MMR update, I still would go against pretty competent killers and have a pretty good team.
Within the past few months, that has all changed. Every single game....for months...has been camping and tunneling. All of them. I was looking forward to this update as a way to hopefully balance just how insanely boring and punishing it was to play as a survivor.
Yet my experience since the patch has dropped has only confirmed that things have become worse. More camping, more tunneling, because killers have more time to do so!
Will it take some time to adjust to a new meta? Sure.
Will the game start to balance out? Who knows?
Psychologically, when you have trained people to be rewarded for doing certain behaviors, and you do not fix that reward system, then why stop? Why should killers not tunnel and camp? Used to, it was because other survivors would rush gens and you would be lucky to get a 2k/2e (which the devs used to say was the balance, but no longer).
Instead, killers whined and complained and devs listened. So now, they continue to be rewarded for behavior that is punishing to survivors, with zero drawbacks. Is 3k/1e the new balance goal for the devs? If so, we hit that mark weeks ago when they released their data. That was before the patch.
So that leaves us with this: devs want most games to be 4k. They want killers to get high off of the bloodlust of killing everyone in their sight. They want survivors to, for some reason, masochistically continue to suffer after a million and one nerfs over the years in the hopes that...oh....maybe in one in ten games you can escape.
How is that good for the longevity of the game?
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Camping and tunneling every. single. game.
Have died on first hook in over 6 games.
Have sat staring at the killer until I die in most games.
And yet, the most gens I have seen completed is 4.
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@Mondhirsch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071027#Comment_3071027
I wonder how much fun you'll have as Killer when you have to wait like 30 minutes for a lobby because no one wants to play Survivor anymore.
Potentiality is not an actuality. Basic logic.
Killer queue times have been long, but I have never seen them so terrible that people flee the game *for that reason*.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071027#Comment_3071027
It wasnt survivor sided, it was swf sided. Solo q was nerfed again for what reason?
This 100%.
For some reason, the developers are so afraid of messing with SWF that they continue to nerf solo q into the ground. Why?
In my killer games, I know that I will occasionally encounter a SWF group that is so sweaty it makes the game boring. I accept that these will happen from time to time, and I move on unphased. Why? Because they are so rare.
Survivors have the opposite experience in solo q. Getting a game where your team works together and you are not tunneled/camped ad nauseum is rare. So we almost chase that high because the rest of the games are so toxic and boring.
And now the devs have decided to further imbalance this fundamental issue.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071205#Comment_3071205
"Survivor shouldn't win ever" was a pretty good indicator imo.
I get that. And in most of life I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume positive intentions.
But I have literally had killers tell me that message. Many, many, many times. In earnestness.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070948#Comment_3070948
Bruh, they were being sarcastic.
How can one tell in a community as toxic as DbD? At least they could have /s.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071064#Comment_3071064
The problem with meta for Survivors is... there isnt really any meta and I dont think it will ever be, people used the perks they used because they were strong AND the rest were literal garbage.
They nerfed the strong perks into oblivion and they didnt really buff any perk except Lightweight and OTR so there isnt much to select, Sprint Burst was good before and is still good but outside of those 3 there arent any really good perks anymore so people cant really adjust a new meta when there isnt anything to work with, maybe Prove Thyself becomes more common since its the only way to deal with the insane regression we have now.
This is also true.
I am curious about some of the changes....though I feel like nerfing many of the true meta perks was really an effort to try out other builds and perks that are less than optimal. This would be okay in and of itself had they not coupled this change with the insane buff given to killers.
Why not multi-step the process? Why not wait a few weeks to see how survivors adjust to the new meta? Why not then continue to balance and tweak fundamental game changes?
I
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@Lecruidant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071064#Comment_3071064
I watched a Killer straight up ignore me unhooking, chase the person around until said person just gave up and stopped running because there was no point. They just don't care now. And you're right. All Gens aren't getting completed at all. Let alone upwards of 4. It's taking too much time. Which is funny because i thought 10 seconds across the board on each Gen wouldn't be an issue. But with all the Killer buffs it's an issue for sure. They did far too many things at one time and it just isn't' fun to play Survivor now. Yes. Survivors SHOULD die. But honestly at this point I'm about to just go sit in Killer queue and go back to being a Killer main.
That and look, I love playing Killer and using Thana. But it got overly buffed.
Because again, what is the punishment for killers camping or tunneling?
Nothing.
What is the incentive to do other things?
It was rushing gens. Even before this patch, when camping and tunneling were worse than I have ever seen them in five years, you could still do your best to just sit and rush gens, ensuring at least a 2k/2e.
I agree, at first I did not think that 10s for each gen would be that big of a buff. I trusted the devs and thought that basekitting BT would help with the tunneling. Unfortunately, none of this has been the case.
I understand that killers want to feel powerful. And survivors should be afraid of the killer (hence the horror aspect to the game).
But let's put it into perspective: after flipping the game back to being killer sided a few years ago, there was an uneasy balance where killers felt like lions and survivors felt like porcupines. You will still lose, but you could at least pack enough of a punch to make it hurt.
Now, killers are grizzly bears and we mere field mice. Except the bears can always see where the field mouse is (or hear). We do not really have much of a counter left because the killers can just barrel through, ignoring anything in their path, just to kick you out of the game.
How long will people willingly say "Ah yes, my desire is to have a miserable experience, suffer and die, every single game with no joy!"
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@Lecruidant said:
Update isn't worth playing in its current state. You can't even make enough ground after being hit to vault a window. Let alone actually getting ANYTHING done. Out of the four and a half hours the patch has been up. I've seen ONE gate open. That's it. Everything else has been a complete clown fiesta. Survivor queue's are going to go into the dirt soon. And killers are gonna have huge queue's. Time to find something else to play until they rebalance this out.
and no. Before anybody comes at me with some stupid ass "HURR HURR DH NERF" comment. I never used it. Always used Sprint Burst. But that argument is besides the point
I know that some will argue that things will take time to get back into a groove now that the meta has shifted. This is partially true.
But here is what has not changed (in fact, it has gotten worse):
*Killers still tunnel out of the game.
*Killers still camp.
They can do both of these things even more easily now because it takes roughly 50 seconds longer to complete all of the gens.
Since the patch has come out, I have only seen one game where there was one gen left. Have never seen all gens completed. Every. single. game. has been a 4k.
How can adjusting to a new meta solve these underlying issues? You can't bandaid a broken bone.
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@premiumRICE said:
Yeah? Survivors shouldn’t win, ever. The killeris supposed to kill it is in the name
You would never have a game if this were the case.
"Hi, I am a killer. My job is to chase and kill you. You? Well, there are objectives. Sure you might escape. But no, you 4 exist merely to satiate my bloodlust and desire to kill."
Back in the day, devs tried to balance 2 out, 2 dead. This plus many other things (god loops especially) meant that the game was survivor sided. So they tried to buff killers. Over the years, it has generally worked to create a truly more balanced situation.
Lately, though, they have gone too far in the direction of killers. All that this patch does is buff the killers even more (wah, a few minor nerfs that do nothing to the overall strength of the killer) while actively encouraging them to do the very thing that the devs wanted to prevent. Why not camp and tunnel everyone now? Simple, easy, brainless. Force them out of the game and feel empowered in your 4k.
How long will survivors keep playing if this is the case? Many I know were waiting for this update to fix things. I can already tell you that they will not be coming back.
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I don't think that most survivors disagree with this. The issue isn't the strength of the killer. Instead, it is the abuse that the killer can exert vs. the abuse that survivors can. Unless you have a sweaty flashlight SWF at high MMR, survivors can rarely abuse the game for a killer (unless getting your feelings hurt by teabagging is a thing...). Killer can still get the thrill of chases, downing people, etc. Now that gens take even longer, they have more time to actually enjoy the gameplay.
On the flipside, killers can easily (and have been increasingly) abuse survivors. Tunneling and camping are still rampant, with killers just eating the endurance and pursuing the kill because they know that they have roughly 50 seconds of extra time on gens. This means that killers can continue to force people out of games early. And they have been doing so.
To recap, I don't mind killers being stronger than survivors. I agree. But slowdown killers who tunnel and camp every game make survivor boring.
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It has been rough on survivor for awhile...because the devs only care about screaming killers and streamers. I play both about 60%S, 40%K and the number of problems I had on killer before this update were minimal. Sure, there were the occasional super flashlight SWF sweats, but that was nowhere near as unfun as being tunneled and camped every single game.
I took a break waiting for this update because I was hoping that it would solve some of the core, underlying issues. Unfortunately, after having played all day since the patch, I can say that it has not. I have not seen a single game where 1 survivor was able to escape. Killers are still tunneling and camping like crazy (which increased gen speeds encourages).
Yes, this patch was a buff to killers. That is intentionally where the devs want the playerbase to focus. The problem becomes: when you scare away all survivors except the SWFs, then neither killers nor survivors will have fun (except for the top 1%, but no game can survive on 1% of their playerbase).
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I'm jealous of the people escaping. Every game since the patch has gone this way:
Pop maybe one gen
Killers tunnel and camp still
All 4 die
Rinse X Repeat
Of course, I have noticed that killers have been notoriously campy and tunnely since the anniversary event. This caused me to take a break, so my MMR might be lower. But teammates are (sort of?) helping a bit, but seem allergic to gens. Meanwhile, all the killer has to do is tunnel out of the game until the last person dies.