Valuetown
Valuetown
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001624#Comment_4001624
- Actually, you're super wrong. They were deliberate Blight nerfs, but they weren't in the patch notes, because the patch notes are never expected to be 100% comprehensive.
- No, you can't just dismiss the Spirit nerf. It was 100% intended because survivors complained her directional audio wasn't good enough for them.
- Scratch marks were nerfed for years, so yes that counts as nerfs that weren't "immediately reverted"
- Why aren't you commenting on the audio occlusion itself, which is STILL a large killer nerf?
- The biggest undocumented nerf, is aim dressing being able to steal hits from the killer, because it makes proximity checks based on the killer side, then forcibly changes the killer's attack because of the proximity checks, and then afterwards does hit validation on the server side. And it has been YEARS since this started happening, since server validation started years ago.
Since the majority of your comments were about blight, I'm going to assume either a) you are a blight main, or b) watch content creators that discuss blight on a regular basis for you to know exactly when and what happened to blight's physics changes. I will also work under the false assumption that you have read every patch note in their entirety, read every forum post and comments from official sources, and can perfectly recall all information.
- If they were deliberate blight nerfs, how can you tell without a patch note? If it was discussed on the forums, then there was intention and thus a communication between the community and the devs. If there wasn't, how can you with 100% certainty claim the changes were deliberate when you do not know the intentions of the devs? Furthermore, as I mentioned, since the majority of your concerns were physics based, it is more likely it was an engine upgrade that could have broken those. You can't just assume physics based updates are deliberate when the devs are working with an external game engine that they do not own.
- Again, how can you tell if it was deliberate without a patch note or communication? I am also 99% certain there was a patch note describing directional audio.
- Your scratch mark comment was too ambiguous then. I had assumed you were talking about the 2 or 3 month span when scratch marks were bugged a year or two ago, but then they were quickly fixed and are more consistent now.
- Audio occlusion is also engine based. I thought that would have been self explanatory, but I suppose not. My same line of thinking follows for this as well.
- This wasn't in your original list, but killers have wanted hit validation and this was the implementation. This wasn't a deliberate nerf to killers, it is a new system that has its issues. Yes I wish it was better too, but it can hardly be considered a "killer nerf" even if you squint. Survivors 99% of the time get the short end of the stick with this system.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001469#Comment_4001469
Skullmerchant butchery, hillbillyes overheat these are maybe documented others might be nurse nerf in 2018 or what was it when she had cleaning animation after blink hit and then went into fatigue, chucky nerfs no one asked for this and they were hard this only proofs his last nerf which was reverted in next ptb because not only killers complained but many survivors too and it meant chucky player base will be same as twins, every nerf is kinda documented but some were understandable others were random for no reason or super overdone like sm and these ptb antitunnel changes as well if they went live I guaranree you all weaker killers pick rates would drop drastically and stronger killers pick rate would go up. No one smart will tryhard as ghostface trying to win in mission impossible when there is blight who is more comfortable overall in all categories or ghoul, no one who plays casualy and doesnt try some insane chalanges as win with all killers using limited perks and addons or none of them will play them mainly.
All of those were discussed on the forums and have patch notes.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001471#Comment_4001471
The solution IF bloodlust is to be removed. Bloodlust is still in the game because many of the killers need it.
And your lowest effort solution doesn't make any sense, because the power levels of killers can vary wildly by MMR range. For example, Nurse is kind of trash at average MMR, but really good at high MMR. At Dredge is really good at average MMR, but kind of trash at high MMR.
It never made sense to have only one tier list for the entire game, and I think it causes all sorts of problems.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001469#Comment_4001469
- Spirit's directional audio used to respect audio occlusion, then got changed to ignore audio occlusion.
- Blight used to be able to object slide while looking forwards, and then a patch was released that required him to look all the way up or down, which meant he couldn't see survivors while object sliding
- Blight used to be able to object slide on just about everything that looked like a flat wall, and then a patch was released that made it so he would bump off of tiny window frames in the walls. In fact, for a very long time, he could slide off of every flat-looking wall, until RPD was released, because some of those walls are actually shaped like Ruffles potato chips, and Blight would bump off of the Ruffles.
- Various patches would change the maximum angle that Blight could object slide, before the slide turned into a bump.
- Blight had turning nerfs that were never recorded in the patch notes
- Audio occlusion was buffed by a lot, and it used to be much easier to hear survivor noises behind a line of sight blocker, even if chase music was happening
- Scratch marks were heavily nerfed for a super long time, and there was a long period of time when BHVR kept changing scratchmarks over and over
All of blight's deliberate nerfs were in patch notes and discussed at length on the forums.
Spirit gains more bugs every patch than loses. Those are just another set that are not fixed yet.
Scratch marks were eventually fixed and were actually buffed in their most recent iteration.
It seems like more than half of your "nerfs" are physics interactions. The devs have upgraded unreal versions multiple times, and it would make sense for unintended physics systems to break in that process. Those are not intentional on their part and are most likely just bugs.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001347#Comment_4001347
That can happen right after "pallet chaining" is removed from the game. That's when survivors just run from pallet to pallet, playing everything as safely as possible, and many M1 killers have zero meaningful interaction until all the pallets in the area are gone.
So your solution is to remove all good tile chains so killers like nurse, blight, spirit, oni, wesker, singularity, huntress, etc. can have even more of a cake walk when they play?
The lowest effort solution is either nerf the top 50% of killers so that their power level is on par with trapper for those changes to be valid, or buff the bottom 50% of killers and buff the maps accordingly to compensate for survivors.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001092#Comment_4001092
Haddonfield is way less killer-sided, than Badham is survivor-sided.
- Haddonfield is still really obnoxious for the killer to patrol
- It can be really obnoxious to find a survivor that pre-leaves an indoor generator because the houses have so many line of sight blockers that the killer often doesn't know if the survivor is still in the house or if the survivor left
- If the killer doesn't have good map mobility, then outdoor survivors will just run straight for one of the houses, because the houses have so many line of sight blockers that it can be really obnoxious to find the survivor. And I know people don't want to hear it, but fog vials are extra annoying in those houses, because of the super high number of line of sight blockers.
Like, I really don't think you realize how annoying those houses are for most killers.
Also, I don't know why you're acting like undocumented changes are 100% always in the favor of killers. Sometimes killer nerfs don't show up in the patch notes.
Give me 3 undocumented killer nerfs that weren't immediately reverted after killers complained about them.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001044#Comment_4001044
So like I said earlier. If the counterplay to the pallet is break pallet, blood lust or use a killer with a better power then that doesn't make it super counterable and to add on, a healthy pallet. Place a Myers, ghost face or sadako there and suddenly that loop is WAY stronger.
That's the issue here. Most killers aren't Myers, Sadako, or Ghostface. Balancing the game to their level is why this game feels horrible to play as a survivor because more than half the roster can start and end a chase in 30 seconds.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001067#Comment_4001067
What did you think was going to happen, when survivors demanded for maps to have less dead zones? Did you expect BHVR to just add more pallet and loops, and keep all the existing stuff the same?
In order for dead zones to be removed, the existing pallets and loops need to be made less safe. That's how map balancing works.
And I still don't understand why people feel the need to complain about weak loops and pallets, but never complain about loops and pallets that are so strong that killers have zero counterplay and zero meaningful interaction. If loops and pallets are supposed to be "more interactive", that means the stronger loops and pallet should be weaker so they become "more interactive" too.
This is not a zero sum game for balancing. Besides, the map is one of the most killer sided maps in the game. It's "the game" for killers. The reason people are asking for less dead zones is because there were ZERO pallets to begin with. Again, half the roster have abilities to counter almost every loop in the game. I'm sorry but balancing the game assuming every killer is running trapper with 0 perks but every survivor squad is a 4 man comp squad is how you arrive at that conclusion. Some tiles need to have strong pallets because killers like blight, oni, spirit, wesker, kaneki, etc. exist. Besides, calling those tiles strong to begin with is laughable to say the least.
And again, my whole point was for the devs to communicate these changes. Not to silently add them without any indication as to why. I'm sure if you added up all the undocumented changes the devs have done over the years to aid killers, you'd get a list twice as long as any meaningful survivor buffs. Remember, there is still no official patch note saying that surge causes you to scream if you're repairing the gen that erupts. Just to put that into context for you.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001057#Comment_4001057
You said it's a "skill issue" if killers weren't playing the previous loops perfectly. Why aren't you also saying things are a "skill issue" if survivors weren't playing the previous loops perfectly?
It's a skill issue if you can't force that pickup truck pallet to be broken within 60 seconds. At that point, the killer is TRYING to prolong the chase.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001044#Comment_4001044
So we're supposed to assume killers play perfectly at every loop every time, but we shouldn't assume survivors play perfectly at every loop every time?
And if killers don't play perfectly at every loop every time, it's a "skill issue". But if survivors don't play perfectly at every loop every time, it's expected and BHVR should help them out?
When did I ever say killers play perfectly or use that assumption in my post? Legitimately all you have to do at either of these loops is turn your brain off and hold w in one direction and force the survivor to throw the pallet. That's 15 seconds TOPS for the only pallet in a massive dead zone.
Besides, the original point of my post was having these changes be known and tested before getting pushed to live.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001003#Comment_4001003
The dump truck is NOT an LOS blocker simply maneuvering your camera down under allows you to easily see the killers feet from under it and if not its full of EXTREMELY safe check spots with the gaps between and the corners having cut outs allowing you see farther than an actual corner.. A "stutter step" mind game doesn't really work against good survivors. I've seen survivors loop there for upwards of 60 seconds against some of the better killer players. And you can not say the pallet in house of pain is "decently strong" it is a god pallet against most killers.
Trust me just because a pallet takes actual attention span to loop doesn't mean it's weak.If a survivor is looping any of those loops for more than 60 seconds, it is a skill issue on the killer. You assume every survivor plays perfectly at every loop every time. That's simply not how life works. Take everyone's favorite killer blight. Those pallets are gone in 5 seconds and are absolutely unsafe.
If you are balancing the game assuming the survivors are a 4 man swf comp squad and the killer is scratched mirror Myers, you're not going to have an accurate lens to consider balance changes for this game.
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@bingbongboi90 said:
Haddonfield got an increase of pallets but also reduced a bit of the ultra safe loops.
Fine by me. Not every map should be saw map with 90 God pallets.
Not every killer is scratched mirror Myers on autohaven. Survivors need a few good pallets to even have a fighting chance of getting a 2 escape against most killers.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000998#Comment_4000998
Lets be honest most pallets on haddonfield are playable to an extent. "1 foot wide tree" is a very major stretch if you run the pallet correctly.
You can NOT tell me these "have counterplay" other than just use a better killer, blood lust or kick pallet when the survivors have LOS on you the entire time making mindgames entirely meaningless.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5GJ9SDKKUPNE/image.png
The dump truck is already a line of sight blocker. Both trucks are susceptible to a simple stutter step mind game. That is besides the point. Not every pallet needs to be unsafe, especially in the middle of haddonfield, which has always been considered a massive dead zone after the rework. Your definition of playable must be "one loop and throw" or "force a killer stun." The only decently strong pallet on haddonfield is in the bottom of basement house. More than half of the killer roster have tools to shut down all of the loops you provided. Just because Myers is weak on his own map doesn’t mean the majority of killers are too.
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@Brimp said:
Because the car loops on haddonfield were some of the safest on the map to run? They had VERY little mindgame potential for the killer. Especially that dump truck loop. The only really weak car loop on haddonfield was the police car in front of main.
Are you calling them safe compared to the pallet that spawns next to the 1 foot wide tree? Or the 1 foot wide hedge in the corner of the map? As any killer, you loop the truck twice and force the survivor to throw the pallet, oh the horror. This is exactly what I mean. Oh there's a tile the killer is ACTUALLY weaker at? That provides a miniscule amount of safety for the survivors? Nope, let's nerf it and not tell anybody. Just like how they removed one of the bus windows on autohaven and just left a hole in the side instead. At this rate, every shack will have a breakable door and no window, and killers will still find a way to complain about shack.
The trucks are mindgame-able, and that's not even mentioning survivors getting stuck on broken collision because the game engine is running on duct tape and a dream.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
Hello everyone,
just a short question (and I guess I will get the answer at the count of downvotes as always…)
I am a gamer for a long time and in most of the games I have played adaptin to the meta was kinda the fun part of the game. To many carrys? Play an assassin!, To many trap cards play trap card counters and so on.
Now I see the new Anti Tunnel and Anti Slug System and my friends are out of their minds. Yesterday I asked a simple question to some of them "If you get tunneld every game why not pick Anti Tunnel perks?" The Answer? Because I can´t play my staple perks.
Again I was mind blown. With all these perks some players play the same Perks all the time not caring in the slightest if it´s worth it at all.
So my question to the community.
If all people would go for DS and OtR for a whole month do you really think Killers would still go for the tunnel all the time? Or do you think like me that tunneling is so omnipresent because Killers knew that Anti Tunnel Perks are rarely played.
(And don´t tell me perks are no fix to this. I know this myself. But the Killer doesn´t know either if the Survivors are trying to win at all costs and he has to tunnel or slug to stand a chance)
Every "anti tunnel" perk has an easy and simple base kit counter, especially if the killer proxy camps. Any endurance effect - hit directly off hook or hit asap, ds - countered by half the roster because of gap closer abilities, but also slugging.
You could run every anti tunnel perk in the book and it still is not enough "adapting" to have a high chance to survive.
The majority of survivor perks are either useless or require too much circumstance to activate. Take the new Rick Grimes perk where you can make a party pallet after opening 2 chests. Does it have a use case? Sure. In 1 out of 1000 games. Meanwhile, pain res, pop, surge, grim embrace require the killer to do nothing extra but their main objective.
Killers are 100% on board with asking survivors to adapt, but heaven forbid you ask killers to do the same without every wannabe dbd content creator with under 50 subscribers on YouTube calling this "the patch that will kill dbd" before said patch even drops on the ptb to test.
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Here to boost this bug because this just happened to me in game
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@kermit_snacc_choke said:
Girl it's not April 1st chill with this post 😭
Not everyone who you disagree with is joking; but if your intention was to minimize and humiliate OP and their suggestion, that's not very appropriate either.
@Topic I would love for this to be a toggle because it's just unnecessary audio clutter after the first 2 or 3 times you hear a voice line. Too bad they probably diverted valuable development resources to get out the Jim badge in record time, so that puts this potential QOL change at Q3 of 2028 at the earliest :) (sarcasm intended if it wasn't obvious).
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@SpitefulHateful said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992767#Comment_3992767
Like I said, I have been right many times before. OP's blind faith in BHVR is their own problem.
If you don't want to give BHVR another chance that's your prerogative. OP and Firellius at least want to see the changes on PTB; you know, to test changes. This would most likely be a make or break for a lot of people who are putting what little faith they have left in the devs to actually listen to feedback after the changes hit PTB. I think the last thing anybody wants is another walking dead situation.
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If these are queue times, you realize that the side with fewer players has quicker queues right? There's a reason killer queue might be 7 minutes, and that's a factor of your mmr bracket, how many killers are head of you, but most importantly how many survivors are playing to decrease the amount of killers ahead of you. The less survivors, the longer you're waiting.
edit: not sure why my quote to the "trust me bro" didn't go through, but this was not directed at you @ratcoffee
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@stormguards said:
DbD lacks ranked queue, players have now taken things in their own hands and made a DbD ranked server/system. The server have over 1k members in less than 24 hours showing the high interest to get this ingame.
While I am not against a ranked mode per se, DbD has approximately 60k active users in the last month. 1k people is 1.6%. There are more people playing twins than there are playing on that ranked server. I don't think that necessarily indicates "high interest."
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987873#Comment_3987873
Its really not that hard to beat, even with a team of insta mend players who group up.
I'm just curious, have you played 2v8?
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/454508/remove-legion-from-2v8
They never we're good in 2v8 tbh, arguably worse with the less hits until down and less killer instinct. When he had to hit everyone, all survivors were getting injured, creating alot of pressure. The problem isn't the killer, its the survivors who keep insta mending, thinking the killer left. 2v8 needs to imo have mmr, cus theres no excuse for why teammates are mending for no reason, or not doing a gen.
You do realize there's a second killer who can capitalize on having everyone injured? Killers who are way better at closing the gap than legion like blight, nurse, oni, wraith, spirit, etc. Legion is a support killer, and is extremely annoying to put it lightly.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987255#Comment_3987255
That's a big "if". IF you are applying condemned. But it's a very simple matter of turning off the TV next to you to prevent getting condemned stacks.
I do main Onryo myself by the way, and typically the most common way I end up getting enough stacks to mori someone is by teleporting on top of a survivor mid chase. This tends to work because the survivor I am chasing of course had no opportunity to turn off the TV they just got near. And other survivors who are working on gens are lulled into a false sense of security thinking I am not going to hit them with more stacks simply because I am currently in chase.
I find that typically when I teleport just for the sake of teleporting, survivors very quickly run to the TV nearest them and shut it off.
I would rather have a high chance of the "if" happening than a tape being removed by a survivor.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987156#Comment_3987156
But when you do this, you are 1) wasting time teleporting around just for the sake of teleporting and shutting off that TV. and 2) wasting that resource for when you might really need it later and 3) you're also shutting off a source of condemn that could apply to survivors.
But that therein is the problem. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario. If you teleport around and shut off all of your TVS, sure, the survivors can't get a tape from a TV and shut them off for EVEN LONGER … but then you've got no power. You've wasted loads of time and thrown all your mobility away for little to nothing. If you try to conserve your TVs, then that allows the survivors to shut them off anyway and lower their condemn.
There is practically no downside to survivors taking your tapes and shutting off your TVs. But there are downsides everywhere when you project or choose not to project.
It's not a lose lose situation. If you are applying condemned, it is in your favor. That is not "wasting time." Since her tapes serve two purposes, it is a trade off to what you use them for. Either run the risk of saving them to teleport and not have them if a survivor wants to remove a tape, or use them on your own authority as fast as you can so you can apply condemned without the risk of tape retrievals. It's simple game theory. It's this idea that you NEED to use them for map traversal that is holding some players back. Your pressure should come from condemned. You don't need to force survivors off a generator by teleporting to it, have your condemned stacks do it for you, which forces them to run through the map to find a tape and deposit it.
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@4thdslip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987158#Comment_3987158
Franklin's does more than just disable your item, you know. Dropping it means you have to survive the chase or get hooked, waste precious objective time to retrieve the item, and then go use it again, with the additional issue of the killer knowing where the item is (and thus being able to hinder your ability to retrieve the item, especially with trap killers) and anticipating you retrieving it.
Onryo's tapes are taken by choice, often in times where the item is not needed (ie: after depleting a toolbox which takes at most 25 seconds, when healthy for medkits, literally any time for flashlights, when on cooldown for the 3 other items) and can be safely deposited in the corresponding TV whenever the survivor needs the item again, unless they get chased and hooked... which also destroys the tape, allowing use of the item again. This argument was dumb when people claimed Sadako was OP in Blood Moon and is still stupid now, because it doesn't actually reflect real gameplay against current Sadako.
There's also some discussion to be had about how Syringes completely counter this, but that's neither here nor there.
This argument isn't stupid because you are working under the false idea that survivors will always get to pick up a tape when they want. Using a toolbox at the beginning of the match is no different with Onryo tapes and real franklins. I'm talking about healing with a medkit if she drops chase, I'm talking using a flashlight or a map or a key. Having to run all the way across the map and potentially getting put into harms way is the core strength of both the tapes and Franklin's.
The point is at a critical juncture of the match where an item can be used, say a flashlight to save a teammate, if you are holding a tape, there is nothing you can do to save your fellow survivor. That is infinitely more impactful on the match than "having to run back to your item." If that flashlight blind would have prevented a sacrifice or a tunnel, that is way more valuable in terms of survivor time efficiency.
I have no idea why you're bringing up syringes, which is the most broken survivor addon right now, as a defense that this interaction doesn't favor onryo.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987147#Comment_3987147
Exactly. You literally don't have to go anywhere. She is just going to teleport elsewhere anyways. Just go back to your gen. You have a full 70 seconds. The tape doesn't punish you at all. Completely free.
Having essentially a built in Franklin's demise until you deposit a tape is pretty massive I'd say.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987083#Comment_3987083
The TVs are entirely under control of survivors.
This is literally just untrue lol I have hundreds of hours on onryo btw. If you are letting survivors take the tapes out, maybe prioritize using the TVs when they are off cooldown. They can't take tapes out of a TV that isn't on. Onryo is not played like your average killer. Her slowdown and subsequent pressure is with the tapes. Even if you have to drop chase to apply a stack, it's in your best interest to do so. Since all the survivors spawn together, it is practically impossible for all 4 survivors to immediately grab tapes once the TVs turn on initially. Pretending like Onryo doesn't have any agency in using her own TVs is just incorrect and putting the blame solely on inefficient gameplay rather than trying to adapt.
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@4thdslip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986927#Comment_3986927
pause hold the phone how many tvs do you think onryo has
Onryo has 7 TVs. I was rounding up for your benefit. Your idea in practice is just original Onryo but with less counterplay, unless you're saying even off TVs stack condemned, which would be even more broken than slug onryo when that was meta.
I will again reiterate, mapwide teleports should never have become normal. It is unfair design unless the killer is weaker in chase, which then killers will complain about. Springtrap, dredge, xenomorph, and onryo SHOULD be weaker in chase if they are allowed full map mobility on command.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986927#Comment_3986927
There are four survivors and one killer. Killers have to outplay survivors two times each for one down. That's a great deal of time and game losing for most killers, which is why the best killers in the game have antiloop and can turn many 50/50s into a guaranteed hit. Giving individual survivors that level of agency vs most of the cast would make winning on them vs competent survivors extremely difficult. If you think playing most of the cast should be absurdly difficult just say so.
Knight has similar counterplay to spirit. Using guards works almost exactly like spirit regarding tracking, except you don't get a hit at the end of the phase. Instead of spawn an unreliable guard that probably isn't doing to do anything. So what do you do vs spirit? You double back. Take unique pathing. Same thing vs knight. If he was as strong as you propose he is them he'd be one of the better killers in the game. He is not.
I hate it when people describe killers like that. Did you know there's a killer that can traverse the map very quickly, has an enhanced lunge and stealth on top of that? It's wraith. It sounds good on paper until you hit all the conditional aspects of the character. Just like onryo. She can do all that stuff only if survivors let her. They have complete agency over the meat of her power. Comparing her phasing to spirit is also wilfully disingenuous because she cannot hit out of phase without an audio queue. It's completely different.
Firstly, as the match goes on, survivors have less resources to work with. Winning a chase with 2 gens left is easier than with 5 gens. The killers are the strongest after a few chases. That is by design. I'm not asking for killer gameplay to be absurdly difficult. I am asking for the best killers to not be the standard to buff the rest of the killers to, but somewhere in the middle.
Again, you are only thinking about guard pathing. Even if you overpath, you drop the guard and the massive guard radius saves you. If not, knight gets a HASTE BONUS, and he can also hit the knight to cancel the guard to then send out another. That is nothing like spirit, and I'm not sure why you'd try to convince anyone otherwise.
Approaching a tile manifesting as onryo to have a controlled spirit phase effect is not disingenuous. Maybe you didn't understand that I meant the passive phase ability spirit has. The "if survivors let her" is called counterplay. You don't see wesker players crying because people are using sprays and not letting him get uroboros grabs. The whole point of what I said about onryo is you adjust your playstyle during the match because she has a lot of tools. Wraith is identical to onryo. He is a great solo queue destroyer, but at higher mmr he needs more macro and game sense knowledge to win. It's like I said earlier in the thread: if you have 4 survivors who are in comms and are completely coordinated running every meta perk, the average killer will not win. But if you overcompensate for that, solo queue becomes miserable. It's a balance.
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@4thdslip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986574#Comment_3986574
Not... exactly? TV spawns are near generators, taking the place of chest spawns. Generators tend to spawn in loops, thus, TVs will tend to spawn in loops. The only things that interfere with gen spawns is the Canker, so for the most part, long term players can determine where the TVs will spawn with a very small margin of error, barring insanely weird generations. A TV will always spawn in one of two main building areas (unless it is a small main building, like Sanctum, or Blood Lodge, which has the same main building spawn every single time), if a gen spawns in shack, the TV is opposite the lockers, Father Campbell's low walled loops spawn it on the inside of the wall while Macmillan's high walled loops spawn it on the outside, etc etc etc. It's like Springtrap doors, and I have never heard anyone say they lost due to bad door RNG.
I think you and I have wildly different ideas of what counterplay counts as, especially when M1 killers come to mind. The killers you have listed are all M2 killers, and 3 of the killers you mention have the counterplay of "look at the killer while being chased," while Knight's kit actively dissuades you from attempting to go for pincer attacks, with the decreased Hunt timer, the hit a guard to unsummon him mechanic and the hit a survivor to end the Hunt mechanic, and 2 out of the three guards not being suitable for pincer attacks. Yes, landing a pincer is a fast down, but messing up a pincer attack loses you a immense amount of pressure, while using the guards properly will allow you to pressure multiple people from a distance, rapidly set up dead zones, and herd injured survivors to unsafe locations.
With M1 killers, counterplay is always going to be different. Unlike M2 killers, where the counterplay is for avoiding the hits as much as possible, M1 killer counterplay is to limit how much the power can actually be used. With Michael, you hide as much of your body as possible to avoid getting in his LoS for stalk. For Pig, avoiding popping gens until threats arise to allow players to remove the mask before the timer starts is the way to go. Ghostface has the wonky reveal, all three trap killers let you remove the trap in some way, and currently, Sadako's biggest counterplay is a tape jockey. My personal opinion is that M1 killer counterplay should not be like this, which leads to the Sadako counterplay listed in the post, in which players can still remove Condemned but without the ability to remove her power entirely, or leave the TVs on as long as possible to prevent her from teleporting to key areas, such as preventing her from teleporting to the loop she's already in to stack Condemn or to gens that you want to rush at with something like Potential Energy, while a teammate moves her away from the gen.
My suggestion is not to re-add the tape timer, but to add, in a weird sort of way, anti-loop to Sadako's kit. She already has ways to avoid bodyblocking and stuns, and this would stop survivors from Shift+W from loop to loop due to the risk of her mori. Its just a bonus that it also adds passive slowdown and active decision making to survivors.
TVs will spawn next to gens, that's correct, so that's 5 out of about 8 or 9 TVs total. There are more than 9 tiles to loop at on the map. Therefore, there will be loops that are not next to gens or TVs, hence it coming down to RNG. Not complete RNG for every TV, but still RNG. If you haven't heard people say that they lost to RNG, you haven't been on the forums enough because there's a new post practically weekly about RNG affecting both survivors and killers.
M1 and M2 counterplay should come down to map knowledge, looping knowledge, and macro knowledge. Killers should not be guaranteed hits at tiles with a pallet or window without first interacting with the elements of it. I'm not saying a pallet should be broken or window blocked by the entity, but given any killer, and the killer and survivor both playing optimally, it should come down to a 50/50 at the worst. Killer mains need to know a fraction of the knowledge a survivor player does to see the same amount of consistent success. That's just the pure truth. Heaven forbid killers actually use an iota of game sense at loops or win a mind game instead of the killer playing itself to secure a hit.
Even your example of pig. Do you think survivors find it fun that pig essentially gets infinite value off of ruin or pain res because the "optimal" play is to 99 gens until the traps are off? Especially if she has the addon that hides box auras until the trap is active?
In regards to knight "missing" his pincer attack, that is a player mistake, not a killer limitation. Hoping that a killer misses is not counterplay, and it should never be considered counterplay. That's how you get nurse and blight. Hence why I said played perfectly. Those killers I listed cannot lose if both the survivor and killer play perfectly. That is not fair, and we shouldn't strive to make Onryo or any other killer that strong, even if TVs are based on RNG.
Onryo has a base kit mori, map teleport, undetectable, a power that prevents the use of items because the tapes are held items, a spirit blink when manifesting, and immunity to pallet stuns when demanifested. She is the personification of the famous phrase: "a jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." Taking out ONE tape isn’t preventing her from teleporting, and that's not even factoring in that the TVs play two roles: map traversal AND condemned. If you're playing them primarily for map traversal, you will fall short on the condemned because survivors have time to take the tapes out. If you're playing them for condemned, then you won't have many for map traversal. It's called a trade off and adjusting your playstyle mid match is a skill that leads to success because she has flexibility.
Onryo has A TON in her kit, is top 3 in the official kill rate stats, and is a complete solo queue demolisher. Asking to buff her because OP had 3 bad games while still refusing to show their total kill rate on onryo is not indicative of a major problem with the killer.
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@4thdslip said:
I feel like there's another option for Sadako, which is having the TVs start turned off, and when she TPs to them, they turn on and load a tape into them. Being near a TV when it turns on adds a stack of Condemned, but you can't take a tape out of a TV that's never been turned on, so you do need to still be near a TV at some point. Taking a tape out or putting a tape in turns the TV off and removes Condemn as always; TVs probably also turn off automatically on a 30-45 second cooldown as well.
This would result in slightly different counterplay - to avoid Sadako teleporting in front of you and stacking condemn, you have to stay in loops with on TVs. However, TVs are still a core mechanic you cannot ignore, with the caveat that interacting with them may still result in someone else's death.
While this would remove some of Sadako's stealth elements, it does turn her into a incredibly good control killer, allowing her the ability to force passive slowdown by teleporting near gens much like Springtrap can, while also making it difficult to run away from gens that have progress (since, if you want to avoid stacks, you need to stay near that TV).
Addons that would be changed:
- Cabin Sign and Well Stone would decrease the time TVs are on for, allowing Sadako to teleport to them again.
- Make the loud noise notif from Mother's Comb basekit, and rework this addon.
- Move Tape Editing Deck's effect over to Iridescent Videotape, sans aura reading, and rework this addon.
- Iridescent Videotape, on top of now having Deck's effect, also makes a survivor exposed for 12 seconds after putting a tape into a TV.
- VCR gives Hindered to survivors who place tapes into TVs. This could be given to Telephone with a rework to VCR, but considering this rework touches nothing about Sadako's Manifest power, I want to maintain those addons.
@MechWarrior3 , since you're a well known Sadako main, does this idea pass your sniff test?
While this would be an interesting change, it would then put the issue back onto TV spawns. It's complete RNG on where the TVs are, and looping will feel like either you've won or lost on something practically out of your control.
I think it all comes down to the issue of effective counterplay. Every killer SHOULD have an effective counterplay method where if both the survivor and killer play perfectly, getting a hit comes down to a 50/50 or rock paper scissors move so to speak. Let me explain with what I don't mean:
- Current nurse - you cannot do anything against a nurse who knows what she's doing
- Current blight - 1947 win streak, need I say more?
- Current knight - Place a guard down and cut off the survivor
- Current ghoul - you are getting a health state taken whether you like it or not
- etc.
Sure there is something to be said about a killer's chase potential vs gen patrol potential (map traversal), but usually the more frustrating killers are those where a survivor's choices in chase do not matter. The killer players that say "well killer is the power role, so I should eventually get a hit" I agree with to an extent, but it should not be guaranteed. You still should have to earn a hit and subsequent down to secure a hook. I'm not talking winning a chess match every time, but it should definitely be harder than it is now. Pressing "killer power button" should not guarantee a down, like old chucky used to be, or like current ghoul is.
Bringing that back to the topic, Onryo really is fine as is right now. Her effective counterplay is removing a tape, and she still has her passive phase to work with. The issue is most Onryo players do not use her kit to the fullest potential. When I play her, I always TP as soon as I can, as much as I can until only 1 or 0 players are getting stacks. Putting pressure on the survivors early is her best form of slowdown. I've had many games against P100 players who just ignore the tapes thinking they can just do it later, but they end up getting condemn mori'd 1 minute later. I don't think we need to go back to an early onryo where the tape timer was essentially a weaker pig trap, but we don't need to rely on them so much that the tapes are the only thing a survivor really can worry about with Onryo as the killer. Right now they are something you have to manage, but they are not so egregiously in your face that every second you don't have a tape, you need to pick one up.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3985980#Comment_3985980
I'll add that we've basically tried every combination with this killer as far as tvs go as well.
Her initial release was basically as OP is expecting: the "correct play" for survivors was to completely ignore the TVs and tapes unless you got to about 4-5 stacks, then go briefly clear them with a tape. And survivors were actively punished for touching the TVs otherwise.
But, while 1.0 had the exact gameplay op is expecting, with "teleports available almost always and only on cooldown when the killer decides to use them", killers actively complained about this because there was no reason for survivors to interact with the tapes and demanded change.
This led to, what I consider the worst iteration of the killer: "teleportako", which completely shifted her gameplay. Now, instead of "the tape kills you, ignore it", it became "the tape saves you, you must have it". And since the killer could just spam teleport to both deny tapes and apply instant condemn, we got some of the least interactive gameplay this game has ever seen.
"Slugako", as you mentioned, was also awful. But that was more of an add-on issue than the core functionality of the TVs.
Now, it's more of a middle ground where (apparently) no one is happy, despite players who have mastered this killer wiping the floor with their opponents.
It may just be that that the TVs do too much, but changing it from being either the teleport location, or the tape/condemn mechanic would also pretty much get rid of being "lore accurate", which is yet another complaint people raise about killers.
I couldn't have said it better myself!
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3985775#Comment_3985775
That's because its for 1 irrelevant to the topic at hand. 2 when I went around the forums asking for people's Data, I got fussed at by multiple people. 3 Again we are not talking about data. We are talking about broken aspects of a killer I have been playing since release. Its a rather simple concept. You wouldn't likely understand if you don't main which I have been since day 1.
If I had it my way, I would revert her back to 1.0 with todays buffs.
I have significant hours on onryo since day 1 as well. You posted cherry picked match stats, and someone asked for overall stats of the bigger picture, to which you refused.
Were you taking a break when onryo was completely busted with her slug condemned build back when her one addon applied a stack to healing people off the ground? Any "small" tweaks can easily put her back at that state.
I agree that she has pain points, and ultimately she's an m1 killer without an insta pallet break ability or insta vault ability, but she is on the edge of being broken and unfun for survivors again because of her condemned ability. A lot of it comes down to play style, and hers requires more brain power than someone like kaneki to successfully apply pressure, and to be successful, she has fewer choices than other killers.
She has fallen to the wayside to killers like springtrap due to power creep, but I would much rather springtrap be nerfed into an acceptable spot than onryo getting a buff. Free map wide teleports is not fun at all for survivors. At least her TVs provide some counterplay.
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@killer_hugs said:
i mean having 3 bad games in a row is not unheard of. but its often followed by a lot of easy games too.
post your killer kill rates. i think that would be more illuminating. with onryo i have almost an 80% kill rate. and you probably do too honestly if you're a half decent player.
Your request for kill rate stats got completely ignored, which I find hilarious. There's a reason Onryo was top 3 of the official kill rates list. I completely agree with you too. If you win too many games on a specific killer, the game will throw you in a lobby against the hypothetical "SatanzAngelz" 4 man swf comp squad with way too much time on their hands, and there's really nothing you can do to prevent it, but that's a drop in the bucket against the 95% of the other games played.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Sadako needs to be in the books asap. She needs to be on the Devs radar. She has gotten so miserable to play as and unfun. It’s a miserable experience not having a power with her
Survivors are constantly taking away my ability to do anything. I honestly feel like I don’t have a power.
I have to use Momitor and Abuse to remotely feel like I have a stealth ability. I don’t even use demanifestation because it’s way too obvious.It’s a real drag when you have to use a perk because your power stinks. She has the worst stealth in the game. I was really hoping she was gonna get tweaked in the midchapter. Sadly that’s not the worse part. The worse part is never having a TV available. I really find it frustrating that tapes are so free.
Please we have got to tweak her and her addons.
I feel powerless as her. I get bullied a lot and there isn’t much I can do. I don’t feel like I am playing the power role with her. I feel like the “ Warm Up” before the real killer comes out in the next trial. It really stinks.Your build is limiting you. You need to be running lethal and brutal for starters. Onryo needs to get into chase asap, so lethal will allow you to do that. Brutal will help because the majority of people will just prethrow pallets, and you can shred them this way. Your tape pressure should be part of your slowdown plan. If you want to get extra mileage out of lethal, you can run the distorted photo and try to use line of sight and her blinking while manifesting to win a 50/50 at a loop.
Unfortunately she falls into the category where if survivors are just prethrowing good pallets and 3 people are on separate gens, there's not really much you can do, which is pretty much any killer below A tier. At that point, corrupt, lethal, bbq, and deadlock/grim might help you. Your best slowdown is breaking the first chase and keeping up the pressure.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3984048#Comment_3984048
I figured you'd bring up MFT.
The reason MFT was a big deal and this is not is because its not about the absolute movement speed increase. It is about the DIFFERENCE in movement speeds between survivor and killer. Additionally, due to a smaller hitbox, when looping, the differences in movement speed become more pronounced, because survivors can loop tighter around things. This is why movement speed bonuses for survivor are so much more powerful than movement speed increases for killer.
A default killer speed is 4.6 m/s, and a default survivor speed is 4 m/s. So that means that the DIFFERENCE in their movement speeds is 0.6 m/s. MFT being 3% means that a survivor goes from 4 m/s movement speed to 4.12 m/s. Which when you do the math there, it becomes a 0.48 m/s DIFFERENCE in movement speeds. So that 3% extra movement speed from MFT, actually extends chases by (in raw movement speed terms) 20%. Which is very significant.
Now lets look at the clown changes.
Before the clown changes yellow bottles were 10% movement speed increase, and the purple bottles were a 15% movement speed decrease. If you combine those together, it meant that the clown was moving at 5.06 m/s, and the survivvor was moving at 3.4 m/s. For a total DIFFERENCE of 1.66 m/s.
If you only look at prepatch purple bottles (i guess prepatch people didn't use yellow bottles much?) Then survivors would move at 3.4 m/s and the clown at 4.6 m/s for a difference of 1.2 m/s
After the patch, the yellow bottles are now 12% movement speed increase, and the purple bottles are 14% movement speed decrease. Which means that the clown is moving at 5.152 m/s and the survivor is moving at 3.44 m/s. Which is a total DIFFERENCE of 1.712 m/s of difference. Which amounts to a 4% increase in the DIFFERENCES in the movement speed. Meaning clowns chases last 4% less amount of time.
After patch people are saying that clowns aren't using purple bottles and are just using yellow bottles, so if we compare that to the clowns prepatch only using purple bottles, then we see the clown is moving at 5.152 m/s and the survvivor is moving at 4 m/s for a difference of 1.152 m/s. Which is actually LESS than the movement speed difference with the prepatch clown using only purple bottles.
This is a very insignificant amount when you factor that the devs balance chases lasting around 45 seconds.
A 20% increase in chases that last 45 seconds due to MFT is 54 seconds. 9 second PER chase.
A 4% decrease in chases that last 45 seconds due to the clown changes is 43.2 seconds, 1.8 seconds PER chase.
Again, you aren't losing the game because you are going down 1.8 seconds faster. You are losing the game because you never went against any clowns that were properly using the yellow bottles. Clown was always able to do the things he is doing now, its just that it was harder to do. Saying clown is a problem when nurse exists is a joke.
I can tell you watched Scott Jund's video, so thank you for providing me a summary of his points in text form.
A 20% increase in chases that last 45 seconds due to MFT is 54 seconds. 9 second PER chase.
A 4% decrease in chases that last 45 seconds due to the clown changes is 43.2 seconds, 1.8 seconds PER chase.
This is assuming everyone is just holding W to the opposite corner of the map. Unless you're on a map like coldwind, there WILL be obstacles which will force the survivor to path suboptimally, or force them to a tile. At that point, if a survivor is being forced to the tile, throwing the pallet and running will give you miles more distance as survivor than just raw haste (up to a certain point). Most tiles across the center of the map are 50/50s. Losing a 50/50 as survivor, with haste or not, will most likely secure a hit for the killer. All that to say, on paper it looks like a massive lean towards survivor, but in practice, haste increases favor killer because survivors are forced into tiles more quickly and cannot gain as much distance. Any hesitation by the survivor is a massive dip in the difference between their two positions; as going from 103% to 0% even temporarily means the killer can come barreling straight at you at 115%.
To even further explain the point, if both a survivor and killer had 3% haste, if starting from 10 meters away the killer would catch up to the survivor in the same amount of time at 16.666 seconds at 78.666 meters versus 16.666 seconds at 76.666 meters. An increase of 2 meters over the course of 16.666 seconds.
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@Choaron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3984048#Comment_3984048
Because Haste is by essence much stronger on the survivor role. Survivors lead the chase on a map while being 15% slower than killers. Them getting +3% mov speed has a considerably higher impact than the killer going from 125% to 127%.
Wrong. The haste percentage has ALWAYS been in relation to the base survivor movement speed of 4.0 m/s. A survivor being 103% and a killer being 118% means they will catch up with each other at the same time as if they were 100% and 115%. Whatever haste increase applied to a survivor is actually more effective on killer due to lunge calculations as I mentioned previously.
There is a reason double speed addon blight is beyond broken.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3984037#Comment_3984037
.11 meters of distance moving at that speed is covered in a time frame of literally 0.015 seconds. For a game which runs servers with a tick rate of 60, this is literally like not a factor ever. We are talking like, tiny fractions of a tick.
Again, a significant amount of window vaults are either made or missed in that time frame. That's just the fact of the matter, and it's even more exaggerated when killer hit validation takes priority over survivor validation.
If 2% is not that much haste, then why was 3% for made for this such a big deal? If 2% haste is nothing, then surely 1% more at 3% is next to nothing, yet every killer main swears to the moon and back that the perk was busted. Which is it? Is it broken or is it no big deal?
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983938#Comment_3983938
That's not entirely true. Lunge speed is set to 6.9 m/s and lasts for 0.8 seconds. Things can stack on top of it, but a 2% extra haste means prior to the change you would move at 7.59 m/s, for a total distance of 6.072 meters of distance. After the change the 2% extra makes it 7.728 movement speed for 6.1824 meters of distance.
You aren't going down because the clown is able to lunge 0.11 meters further.
Barring the fact that you ignored the rest of my comment explaining why this "on paper" math is only half the story, do you know how many times either making a window vault and getting hit at a window vault are down to tenths of a second? That 0.11 meters of extra distance is massive in those situations. Ask anyone in the community how many times they've gotten hit at a window where only 0.01 second more time would have saved them a health state.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3982479#Comment_3982479
His haste is 2% faster, his slowdown is 1% less, his haste activates 1 second faster, and his slowdown lasts 1 second less. (and sure, reload speed and such but nobody is complaining about that)
He is 1% faster (in speed difference) than he was before, but his yellow bottles are easier. Everything he is doing now he was always able to do, its just that it was harder to do and most bad clown players didn't use the yelllow bottles.
Lunge speed is based on current speed. He is able to lunge farther with a haste increase. The speed bottles activate faster, meaning he gets the haste more quickly. The haste differential in a vacuum makes the changes seem like a bunch of nothing, but when you put all the pieces together, clown is able to hit turbo speed practically instantaneously, lowering the distance survivors will be able to run against him. Activating 2% haste instantly versus throwing a purple bottle and having it potentially miss like how it used to be is a night and day difference.
It's this very method of only looking at the raw numbers on paper that leads to half baked balance changes like this to get released.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Very glad to see that Perks with particular exploits/bugs are getting taken more seriously, but having content I just paid for immediately killswitched for potentially up to two weeks (unless there's a fix coming in Hotfix 2, which is kind of unlikely considering the timeline of the bug being refound) is a bit annoying.
Please throw some BP our way BHVR 🙏 It'd be very appreciated
It reminds me of the time they killswitched Any Means Necessary, my favorite perk, because of a bug that only happened on RPD and with Wesker. It was unavailable for the good part of a month. Heavens to Betsy we killswitch anything regarding Resident Evil, we might lose 80% of the playerbase if we do that! (/s in case it wasn't obvious)
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@R2k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974199#Comment_3974199
If you quit then you quit. Everything else is demagogy
Again, this is a forum for feedback. Even if you are leaving, you can give your feedback in hopes that it's implemented for others. Most companies ask you "why are you ending your service with us" when canceling subscriptions. Not everyone is on the forums looking to gain a faux reputation. To pretend that's the case is extremely short-sighted.
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@R2k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974140#Comment_3974140
On other hand, it's attention seeking popularisation. Should we all write how are we "done" about things we don't like? This topic overall is nothing more than attention seeking post. If you leave - then do it. No need to cry about it loud.
it's attention seeking popularisation
This phrase literally means nothing. Do you just mean attention seeking? If so, is all criticism attention seeking? If you have an issue or complaint, are you supposed to just grit your teeth and bear it, and say thank you when minimal effort is given to a product you paid for? These are the forums designed for players to give their feedback. Is it attention seeking to want a criticism to be seen because the service provided to you has been subpar on said forums? No. They have a word for that too, it's called visibility.
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@SAWII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973844#Comment_3973844
Did you see the part where OP realized that it wasn’t the servers and the problem was indeed their own internet connection? LockerLurk was right.
Have you not seen the giant pole on the offering menu? Or how about the game crashing and asking to send a bug report every time I attempt to close the game? Just because OP was using the wrong internet connection doesn't mean the game is stable across the board.
And that's besides the point. The "this isn't an airport" comment was completely unnecessary and was a vain attempt at getting some "free updoots." That part could have been left out, leaving only the question of the internet connection, and this thread would have been equally as productive.
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@LockerLurk said:
It isn't an airport, you don't need to announce your departure.
Also, it's not always the servers. Have you and your friends checked your internet connectivity lately?
What an incredibly dismissive comment for no reason other than just being rude. OP is right. This game is extremely unstable that basic QA testing would help mitigate. The state of this game is completely unacceptable in my opinion.
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@Massquwatt said:
I just think it's really funny that Skull Merchant got nerfed into the dirt because of her conditional haste (a tiny 2%? based on each recent scan) and moderate hinder (-10% after the third scan) and yet clown basically gets 15% and more worth of haste for free.
Skull merchant got nerfed because of her awful 3 gen potential, not because of her haste lol
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@RizeKagune said:
Title ^
I enjoy them but I hope he gets an indoor map to handicap him a bit. He can be pretty beastly in large outdoor maps. How are your games with him?
Absolutely not. 99.9% of players do not know how to play him, but the 0.1% that do cannot lose. His power is a chase power too, not just a patrol power. Good singularities can get double hits just as fast as nurse and blight players. If you're preplacing any more than 2 pods before your first chase, you are playing him suboptimally. His only counter, EMPs, have been nerfed into the ground because the people who didn't care to put the effort in to learn how to use the power were catered to. He can quickly replace an EMP'd pod in 0.25 seconds. He can place a pod down and remark a recently cleansed survivor in 0.5 seconds. There's this false idea about singularity that he's some perfectly balanced killer. He isn't. Just like how some players make nurse and blight look perfectly balanced, this same idea is why people think he's a B tier killer. He has so much baked into his kit, the people that know how to utilize it are unstoppable.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968813#Comment_3968813
You'd be astonished to see just how many are playing DBD on a Switch. We cannot ever know exact numbers, but for this game more than 70% are on one of the consoles, with the PlayStations being the largest portion globally.
While I do think console players are a large percentage, I think 70% is way over the mark. I'd be willing to believe a number between 35% and 45% of active weekly users. That doesn't include people that boot the game 5 times a year.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968742#Comment_3968742
In that case, can we talk about voice chat? Nintendo switch doesnt have ANY.
As for the first part though... I dont think anyone buys consoles because they hate the option of using kbm. Controllers are able to be used on PC.
Apart from the fact that there's probably only at most 500 switch players that actually play the game on a weekly basis, switch players can use voice chat. They can use discord on their phones. Switch 2 players can use the new native voice chat features on their devices.
As for the first part though... I dont think anyone buys consoles because they hate the option of using kbm. Controllers are able to be used on PC.
I have no idea what you're trying to say, let alone what point you're trying to make. This conversation was clearly about using 3rd party software to obtain competitive advantages. If you cannot use that software on consoles, it is most likely considered against the EULA in 99.9% of cases. That was my point. Not about controllers. Not about the switch 1 not being able to use voice chat natively vs everyone else who can (PC, PS4, PS5, xbox one, xbox series X, etc.). Third Party Software used for an advantage. If you're using reshade to deepen every shade of red to see scratch marks farther than the devs intended? That should be against EULA in my opinion. If you're using a tool to track hook timers/hook states, that should be against EULA in my opinion. Based on the in game report system, "any third party software used to gain a competitive advantage" breaks the EULA. That's the wording. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with the statement, that's the wording for if it breaks the EULA or not.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968624#Comment_3968624
But Reshade is also a third party tool used to gain an advantage. It's whitelisted.
It's whitelisted under easy anti cheat most likely. If the devs saw the greyscale and red reshades most high MMR killers use that go way beyond accessibility and are for a competitive advantage, it would be banned in a heartbeat in my opinion lol.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968624#Comment_3968624
Thats kinda of a bad rule of thumb since consoles can't do ALOT of stuff thats deemed fair game. Until this update hits on the 29th, I can't use a mouse.Using a mouse and keyboard on this game isn't seen as against the EULA.
All this program seems to be doing is paying attention to the UI rather than showing anything that was meant to be hidden.
Why are you buying a console to use mouse and keyboard? That's besides the point anyway. Input methods were clearly excluded from the conversation when we're talking about 3rd party programs and not controllers lol.