Valik
Valik
About
- Username
- Valik
- Joined
- Visits
- 595
- Last Active
Comments
-
They really need a statistics screen to show us the basic details.
I mean, c'mon - other games have detailed time-logs of each and every interaction with overhead maps that show exactly where each and every player was killed, what killed them, their SPM calculations, and other complex calculations.
You think you can just let each player know the map, perks, kills, duration, and BP of their past few matches?
-
Good idea, but it doesn't change the fact that this change basically changes nothing.
There are two categories:
1.) Survivors that get royally messed up by this perk / they are scrambling to escape as the killer cuts them down.
2.) Survivors that have ample time to open gates and mount a rescue mission.
Survivors in the second category already didn't care about this perk to begin with. It was hard enough persuading good survivor teams to leave with this perk active as it were - many survivors understand where to look for totems, and so finding NOED is typically reserved for a minute or so of casual searching as the killer camps their hook. These players did NOT need a NOED nerf, nor do most of them even care about the perk - which is why people don't do totems... because why even bother? It's an easy perk to counter.
Survivors in the first category have absolutely no chance to look around for the totem, and their fruitless efforts are often punished with their demise. Survivors making a mad dash for the exit gate as the killer cuts them down and forces them to pay for their trial time in blood - causing them to flee for their lives due to their fear and vulnerability. These players do not receive a buff from this change. If survivors already weren't in a position to look around for the totem, they certainly won't be able to cleanse it even if they were to see where it was. And survivors in this category are typically struggling to find time to complete objectives and escape - which means they don't cleanse totems. These are the people that feel the most harmed and offended by this perk's state of play - and yet they have received basically nothing to aid in their situation
This change has made it so that confident survivors who had no issue with the perk are now even more capable of disarming it - meaning it will largely be ostracized from higher levels of play, where it was already languishing in monotony in comparison to meta perks. However, those who feel victimized by this perk the most will not see a sharp decline in its implementation, nor feel especially able to disarm it.
More than ever, survivors have a dwindling reason to cleanse dull totems. With this change, there's no reason to in the first place, as NOED spawns with an expiration date attached that only competent and confident survivors can utilize. A very misguided choice that nerfs the perk against the people who care least about its effects, while offering no respite to those who fall countless times to the low-level domination that this perk sees.
-
It seems that the running theory behind changes like this are 'If we make the perk unfun and not particularly useful - less people will take it. When less people take it, we did a good job!'
I do not understand why the developers want to make things less fun, or if they simply are misunderstanding the long term implications of changes like this one. Regardless, I firmly believe this change should be reversed and a new approach be taken - an approach that allows killers the opportunity to counter its use while also granting survivors a powerful utility to enjoy in match.
-
Increase the charges needed to complete generators and have their overall charge maximum decreased based on generators completed.
Normal Generator charges: 80 - this means it will take 1 survivor 80 seconds to repair, and great skill checks add 0.8c to the progress meter.
Proposed change
1st Gen - 96 charges.
2nd Gen - 88 charges.
3rd Gen - 80 charges.
4th Gen - 72 charges.
5th Gen - 64 charges.
Survivors enter the match with the Groggy2 status effect, reducing their repair efficiency by 24%
Once a survivor enters chase with the killer, that survivor has their Groggy status removed, and all other survivors drop into Groggy1, reducing their repair speed by 12%.
Once a survivor enters the dying state, all survivors lose the Groggy status.
This will mean the killer is no longer at an incredibly untenable disadvantage at the start of the match. Survivors will have to coordinate and work hard to gain purchase. However, if a killer wastes this opportunity to slow down survivors and they forfeit generators - the match becomes faster and faster for survivors to chew through.
You will also see Toolboxes get a lot more attention - and they will become more valuable later in the game - as they can power through one of the final generators much faster than the prior ones.
The dynamic Generator progress and the Groggy addition, in concert, would promote conservative survivor behavior for generators and encouraging players to interact with the killer. Killers will be encouraged to either end chases fast or spread out their attention to more effectively slow down the early game.
With this kind of change, you will see more survivors dying before a single generator pops, yes. But you will also see matches become far more tense and close as escaping the killer becomes more thrilling and narrow - in spite of the fact that survivors are not repairing generators much more than before... they are just repairing them differently. This change allows the killer to use pressure and momentum to seize a match, but also it allows coordinated survivors to push through and make daring escapes all the same.
Less boring, less stressful; more engaging, more entertaining.
-
People will bring it for a few weeks - either out of ignorance or hoping to make it work.
However, the lack of a deft touch has sullied this perk's potential - it's been Behavior'd.
I don't think anyone will choose it any more or less than the other flop rollouts that they've made, it can sit right next to Buckle Up, Red Herring, This is Not Happening, and Premonition.
A very, very, very poor decision on their part - not only making the perk unviable - but making it downright unfun. Which is ironic, as it was given a massive buff just a bit ago to help stomp down on the Spirit-dominated meta. Guess who's going to be coming back with a vengeance.
-
A lot of these were botched changes, but ruin takes the cake.
Cut its effectiveness in half? Basically unusable now.
Make it destroy itself? That's very harsh.
Both? Dude - it's not even that strong to begin with, chill.
Imagine if Dead Hard got this treatment.
'The distance/duration is halved. Instead of getting 0.5s of invincibility and traveling 4m - users will now gain 0.25s of invincibility and travel 2m'
Then, as the cherry on top.
'Once 3 gens are completed, this perk is deactivated for the rest of the trial'
Like, dang - pick one. Either way it's an unfun change. It could have been nerfed far more eloquently. They took it to the back and did a number on it, they did. Slashing a perk's numbers in half and THEN making it destroy itself is pure vitriol and completely disconnected with the reality of gameplay.
-
Fun =/= strong.
You should not make something strong unfun, as much as you should make something fun weaker due to its enjoyment.
Making a nurse sit and stare at a screen for 5 seconds on a blink-stun is highly punitive, and guess what - it won't effect good nurses, only the ones learning.
Removing the double-stun would make more people approach the nurse and give her a try, without effecting good players at all.
Besides, what madman survivor throws a pallet against a good nurse?
There's no reason to take the fun out of newer player's game for the remote, rare, and extremely circumstantial instance where a good nurse eats a pallet.
-
One of the reasons I love going against solo players is that they are more creative and interesting, in my opinion.
I feel that everyone seeing each other's perks will have the inverse effect on diversity.
Many players think 'Maybe I should try this build out' at times and have sparks of interest that revolve around their own capricious thoughts.
Letting players see each other's builds will open them up to chastisement before the match, which may lead to longer survivor que times (Nobody wants to que up with the no-mither guy) while also unhealthily encouraging other players to create complimenting builds.
'Oh, you have CoH? Maybe I'll bring Botany Knowledge and we can have speedy heals!' 'Oh, you have Borrowed Time? I'll bring Sprint Burst and be aggressive off hook' 'You have Soul Guard? Okay, I'll take For The People'
In no-time flat, the perks with the best synergies in a team will crop up as the new meta, and survivor players will come to expect them. Which means 'I'll take Botany Knowledge to boost your CoH healing' is quickly going to turn into 'Why aren't you bringing Botany Knowledge, you can clearly see I have CoH!'
This will quickly create a survivor reinforced meta that will lead to longer cue times and more finger pointing and grumbling. Killers are going to get bored seeing the same items, map offerings, and perk builds even more so - and survivors are going to be verbally confronted based on their playstyles.
While SWF has this advantage, they have the incredible and implied benefit of all being WITH FRIENDS - which means they all share a mentality and a consensus when entering a match... a consensus that they can always betray through silence or deception. 'Do NOT bring No Mither!' 'Okay' (Loads into match) 'ARE YOU KIDDING ME??' 'Tehe'. This change ruins the fun of SWF builds while also enforcing the worst aspects on the community on both ends.
In truth, you would not see a massive shift in fun being had by solo players or successful escapes - as killers will just understand that every survivor team is going to perform efficiently and they will always bring a map offering. It's going to make the game less fun for everyone involved over the course of a few weeks.
No dice, in my opinion.
-
It may - but I believe that buffing its current effects would be much better.
-
I believe that not seeing the MMR scores has discouraged many players and make them blame other factors for their SBMM woes, which can cause misinformation and misguided complaints.
However, the MMR system needs to be tightened before hand. It seems pretty wonky and fickle - so seeing MMR go up and down in strange patterns may cause more cynicism in the community than just keeping the shadiness of those numbers secret.
-
Pallet is basically useless at high MMR.
Worse still -m any survivors try to preserve pallets, so they will either greed the chase and make you spend several seconds on the hit anyway - or they will use distance to pre-throw pallets and make safe plays to your displeasure, mentally knowing that they can come back and slam those pallets down to remove them for their friends.
At the very least, snares can give better information while also edging out hits in particular loops.
-
@Notretsam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3022623#Comment_3022623
yeah but let's be real, there are some players like you with the experience to deal with it, but imagine new killers dealing with saboteur, body blocking, blind save attempts and oak offerings increasing distance. We want people to be motivated to play killer and stay motivated, this doesn't help with that at all. Hense, why I feel something needs to be done and removing the saboteur altogether is what I think should be done.
also, there are only 4 scourage hooks on the map and on large maps, you can get bad spawns, therefore barely ever getting to one. saboteur is now like a warning system for an SWF on what area of the map to loop because there are no scourage hooks there.
I see your point - but
A.) Bodyblock/Sabo builds are never pervasive to newer players - who are matched against other newer players. New survivors lack the situational awareness, the boldness, and/or the timing to pull off successful sabos. Oaks don't do much, either - and you won't see SWF lobbies using multiple in concert in low MMR lobbies. While I agree that low MMR killer are affected the most by a good sabo - I must disagree that Oaks or Sabos are particularly effective at any rate.
B.) If you want to help motivate killers, don't worry about the sabo game - focus on poor balance dynamics surrounding Endurance and healing. Sabo has been in the game since launch and the system has been largely untouched for the past few years - but the killer player rate took a nose dive after Boon: Circle Of Healing and the new MRR based SBMM. Harder match-ups mixed with powerful healing has been statistically the greatest deterrence for killer players in the short run - and in the long run, the major contributing factor to unfun killer gameplay is the ease of survivor objectives, which is being addressed. In no way does allowing a solitary perk to reveal the nature of hooks effect the longevity of killer players or their long-term enjoyment of the game.
C.) Removing a tertiary aspect of the game does not fix primary issues. In essence, systems should be reworked - but never removed outright. Especially if the spirit of such an action is motivated by external factors, and not - by merit - any issue with the system itself.
D.) This aura revealing status will only be shown to survivors when their allies are carried, so they do not instantly gain any particular information in the foremost moments of the match. Besides, the involvement of Scourge Hooks has been assumed since its introduction - especially since the domination of Pain Resonance in the meta.
E.) It's seldom that hook spawns are so egregiously horrendous as to become useless - especially when, as a killer, one can choose the flow of the game and coral survivors towards hooks. While there certainly are 'dead hooks' in matches, it is never likely that circumstances cause all 4 hooks to be placed so poorly... while also lending a hand to a match where forcing survivors towards them is impossible.
F.) Bringing this perk to feed information to the team to find weak spots in these rare circumstances can work slightly - but not totally. If survivors choose to avoid an area where there's a hook, they will likely forfeit pressure in a concentrated area - resulting in a deadly 3 gen situation - which makes it a tradeoff on paper. In practice, though, the outcome is far more exciting. I can count on two hands how many times I've seen this perk in play up in the meta MMR - the prospect of someone swapping out CoH, DS, DH, BT, or.. really.. any perk to bring this one is an interesting addition to the game.
G.) If the greatest point is that, if a survivor brings this perk with a rare hook spawn and happens to be SWF and correctly relays the information and times their chases right with the possibility of not being corralled with the chance of fighting through objectives and might be able to foil a hook at certain key points in the match if they execute their plan without issue . . . then I'd say it's fair enough. There's enough face-camping and Styptic body-blocking that is blatant and without counter, drawing issue with such an outspokenly rare, situational, and pervasively precarious situation is needless.
H.) If each and every survivor perk was put into its absolutely and fundamentally most ideal situation like this, all survivor perks would be broken. "If someone uses Breakout and there are no hooks nearby - and they coordinated with their friend to be downed in a hook dead zone - it would be impossible to get a hook! Breakout should be removed!" But how often does that happen? How often do people take Breakout for such a benefit? And in those extremely rare occasions where it is attempted, how often does it backfire? The fulcrum of balance is not only in the rarity of the exchange, but its propensity to be countered by misplays and clever counterplay.
-
To clarify, I read the We're Gonna Live Forever prompt before the Endurance secondary Effect was added to the post - which it seems confused a lot of people, me included.
It's a nice addition - so it's not at all like BBQ, which is going to have no real addition to its viability.
However, I do think this eats Soul Guard's lunch by creating firm Overlap. Soul Guard looks a lot less attractive if people are running around with the ability to give it to you for free - and the demand to act in an aggressive and selfless behavior doesn't seem overall rewarding, and more circumstantial. People jump in front of the killer for 25% increase in BP, but they certainly won't do it for the potential to possibly get a secondary effect that may or may not be useful in the uncertain future. This change seems very last-moment and haphazard. I do not agree with it at all from a creative or production side - but I understand that it's veritably harmless as an addition to the perk. However, you're going to see Soul Guard fade over night when this rolls out - no reason to protect yourself with a cooldown if friends are going to pick you up fast and give this to you for free.
-
@Notretsam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020592#Comment_3020592
it seems u looking at saboteur perk only which is fine but when combined with oak offerings, body blocking and going for blinds it's a huge problem, we all know the bully SWF squads do this and this perk is part of it, why it needs to be removed completely.
never get me to agree on corrupt deactivating not being a punishment for getting value, it's like another perk deactivating when you get value.
I have over 1,600 hours in the game and I've never had much difficulty when encountering the Saboteur perk. Sabo builds simply are not that effective - and such a change does not greatly increase its potency in the least. We may have to agree to disagree on that.
I agree with you ultimately - I don't like it when perks have a built in self-destruct. It is an unfun and purely negative Band-Aid approach to balance the developers are moving towards, which is concerning. That being said, I think that Corrupt is powerful enough that this will not matter much. Its potential value remains untouched, and its minimal value is still strong enough to warrant the perk slot. I wish it was a different direction, but it's a reassuring thing to know the perk will be far from dead.
-
@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020561#Comment_3020561
Thanks :) I wanted to think of one for spine chill because I don't see that being used ever anymore, but got nothing for that one really.
Too right.
Needing line-of-sight and removing the buff makes this perk actually useless.
Personally, I'd just send it back to not needing lint of sight and make it wiggle with increasing intensity the closer the killer was to you, but requires a ~0.5s wind-up so it doesn't flash on instantly.
That being said, I think there's a number of ways a creative mind could address the perk without gutting it completely.
-
I think we're seeing the developers struggling to understand how to address these complex interactions with eloquence.
-
This is primarily because developers the world round are flying blind. It is the nature of the beast.
When you're working behind a camera and trying to pull together aspects to turn script into film - it's easy to lose sight of what the consumer feels when they sit in a theater and experience your product first hand.
Developers like Behavior rely on statisticians to show them data, and that data is what helps them make educated and mature decisions.
The fact is, Circle Of Healing will always - ALWAYS be brought into matches 1/4 of the time as much as Self Care... because you only need 1 boon for the whole team, and self care you need 4. Statistically, on paper, it will look like Self Care is getting 4x the love that CoH is.
At least, that's what I anticipate is happening.
Developers use numbers, and if Statistics in college has taught me anything - it's that numbers, more often than we'd like to think, can be the biggest liars in the room.
-
I do like the idea of, instead of making the perk activate once alone, causing it to have a stacking bonus with fallen allies.
- For every ally that has died, increase Generator Repair speeds and Exit Gate Opening speeds by 16/24/32%
At that point, the perk becomes incredibly strong even when you're trying to get out with another survivor trying to loop the killer.
-
Perk is strong?
Step 1 - Evaluate how to retain its potency while making players be more conscious to optimally play around it.- Step 1 - Cut the numbers in half.
- Step 2 - Make the perk blow itself up.
Step 3 - Take notes to ensure this mistake does not happen againStep 4 - Test these changes repeatedly and pour over data to ensure it is optimized before going live- Step
53 - Buff another perk to do be just as bad if not worse than this one was.
-
Corrupt Intervention ending earlier isn't much of a swan song, although I wish it had a different direction - it is more than fair to have it end early given its evident potency.
Saboteur is far from a strong perk, and this tiny little update will not pull it out of the quagmire of mediocre perks. This perk should not be removed from the game, it should be worked to make sabatoging hooks far more rewarding.
Botany Knowledge is broken, though. A 7% buff would still be profound given the nature of the meta. Making the perk 50% more effective than previously is insanity. There will be backlash from this - either directly form the community, or indirectly with very unhealthy gameplay rising in the trials.
-
@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020485#Comment_3020485
Thanks for the feedback, the power being disabled would only be for a few seconds, mainly to prevent an instant blink/rush/phase/hatchet/teleport etc to redown the survivor before they can really do anything. All the m2s which injure really.
Reactions with lower tier killers wouldn't really have an effect imo, i.e. Myers can't stalk (rather than being forced back into T2 or something) wraith can't recloak (since he's always uncloaked when picking up a survivor afaik, even when grabbing while cloaked from lockers) and trapper can't put a trap down, but all of those are things that probably wouldn't happen anyway if the killer is in a rush to get the survivor again.
I understand.
Still, it would make the game a bit more clunky. It's smart on paper, but I worry what it would look like in practice.
Your creativity is commendable, though! I love the ideas!
-
@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020446#Comment_3020446
You didn't read the part where haste effects only stack up to 7% max
Mayhaps, but when professionals are pulling stunts like this in iterations more recent than 1.3.0 - it brings as much into question.
-
Iron Will
I'm with you, I don't think this change is a good one. It feels downright malicious.
The exhaustion debuff was enough, cracking open the perk's viability was horrid. Even reducing its effectiveness to 92% would have been a massive nerf that would see its use fade away, but 75% is just downright cruel. I cannot imagine a player looking at this incarnation with fondness.
I have to disagree with Iron Will becoming an Exhaustion perk by rote - but I could see it applying Exhaustion whenever injured, as to allow for limited Exhaustion use while healthy - and also encouraging smart healing to restore exhaustion perks at will.
Decisive Strike
Disabling certain killer powers may prove to be both impractical and completely imbalanced.
Disabling Shape T3 can obliterate the match, disabling the plague's ability to infect can destroy the fun of a game, a wraith being unable to de-cloak or a nurse unable to blink is effectively useless. While I certainly see the appeal, I think it would create more problems than it would solve. I'd rather get hit with a 6s stun than see a version of the game where killers can be disarmed by survivors and effectively at their mercy.
Calm Spirit
Exactly.
I think the perk should go in a different direction altogether - but the speed debuff is completely unnecessary, I agree.
-
I don't think a lot of people are understanding...
With Borrowed Time and Guardian - an unhooked survivor can outrun a Spirit for 15 seconds.
With Borrowed Time, Guardian, Hope, and No One Left Behind - an unhooked survivor can cross the map to another objective faster than a killer with bloodlust can follow.
The 7% Haste on unhook is fine, but with the amount of perks that can stack on top of this - it can get out of hand in a hurry.
It would be pragmatic and professional to make Haste status effects mutually exclusive with a bias towards the largest number at any given time, which would prevent 15 seconds of 121% movement speed situations.
-
I am completely baffled by this choice.
DS was basically giving survivors a massive threat to ward off killers and punish bad gameplay. However, cutting the effectiveness of the perk by nearly half - even in the most ideal situations - obliterates its viability.
It's already tricky enough to pull off - and it's no longer the most used perk in existence. Turning it from a threat into a farce is just bad design.
The developers should be trying to make every perk an A tier perk on equal standing - not all C tier perks with miniscule benefits and punitive requirements.
-
T H I S
So much this.
Putting Prestige is just going to give players something else to be frustrated over.
Putting a little border around the player's portrait to signify that they achieved prestige in the old ranking system would be more than enough 'bragging rights' - but its all but completely unnecessary, as you have pointed out.
-
I appreciate the creativity - but I think it would be more than enough to simply reduce the grunts of pain entirely, and only suppress breathing when crouching.
You want survivors to feel powerful for bringing the perk, and see it working in their favor, while giving them opportunities to make it work more optimally. Putting an expiration on the perks viability, especially when it's outside of its core philosophy, can prove daunting and may backfire.
That being said. I'd rather have your suggested incarnation than the one Behavior has proposed.
-
@Ssajbambusa said:
@Valik See? It's possible to actually state your mind.
Yes, it would be broken.
Could add cooldown of a minute or so and maybe reduce window.
Perhaps. Making it require 4 seconds of healing to activate and give a 32 second cooldown may be nice.
But in all honesty, it doesn't change anything - because the deterrence factor still remains.
I love the creativity, but I honestly think that this perk needs a diifferent approach
-
@Ssajbambusa said:
@Valik I'm sorry, but how is this broken, but Exponential or Ubreakable not?
Primarily in concert with these - but in addition, it overshadows both other perks that function to the same ends (We're Going To Live Forever, For The People, We'll Make it, etc.) but it also circumvents the conventions of the game.
Unbreakable is strong, and Exponential is strong - but Exponential takes 14 seconds to set up and can be removed, and is highly circumstantial.
Gaining the ability to basically grant Exponential at will an unlimited number of times can be devastating. One survivor with this incarnation of the perk would be able to revive 3 allies with only ~3 seconds of healing between them all.
For The People can bring a single person up from the Dying state instantly, but it costs: 1 Health State, Broken Status, Can only be used while healthy. To pick up 3 people it would take the player over 3 minutes of using the perk and healing up after being broken.
Boon: Exponential can bring numerous people up from the Dying state over several consecutive seconds within its area of effect, but it costs: 14 seconds of setup time, location specific, can be removed by the killer, survivors still take ~15 seconds to pick themselves up. To pick up 3 people, the player must find a well placed totem and spend 14 seconds blessing it - and the boon must not be destroyed by the killer for over 15 seconds per person downed in the area.
Unbreakable can allow a survivor to pick themselves up once in a trial. Once used it is ostensibly a dead perk slot such as DS.
The proposed incarnation of Buckle Up would be able to allow another player to pick themselves up from the Dying State after healing them for a second or so - which means it would take ~3 seconds to apply this perk to three downed teammates. So this already obliterates the economy of the game by preforming a vital and pricy niche for unbalanced value. In addition to its implied separation from established economy, the perk also compounds the usefulness of other meta perks making them even stronger (We're Gonna Live Forever, Unbreakable, Etc.) but it also has another major faculty to the design that would make it broken: Deterrence.
Not only would the deterrence offered become a massive buff to the perk that breaks it beyond convention, but the deterrence offered is the antithesis of healthy gameplay for survivors.
Whenever a killer approaches a survivor that is healing a fallen ally, the killer must now behave as though this perk may or may not be in effect; if they choose to chase the 'healer' survivor away, the one on the ground is highly likely to self revive and make a clean escape. If the killer has even the slightest doubt that they can put the healer on the ground in ~16 seconds or less, they must now pick up the fallen survivor. Instead of participating in conventional gameplay, the killer must now act as though this perk is in play - even when it isn't.
This is a double edged sword.
On one hand, it can destroy a survivor build around it, because - like 99% exit gates to combat blood warden - killers will become weathered to simply picking up fallen allies and hooking them rather than leaving them to be revived. The prospect of such lose-lose situations will rapidly cause killers to play their matches with even less interesting methodology. All to say - if this incarnation came to light, slugging would decrease across the board, but moreover - players will find it even harder to distract a killer or pull them away from an ally to make room for daring rescues. This incarnation of the perk would make incredible saves obsolete over night.
On the other hand, it has the ability to put killers into lose-lose-lose situations at high MMR. Bully squads would abuse the nature of this perk and its implied existence in a trial to force killer players into no-win circumstances. Survivors can intentionally down themselves on a pallet, or survivors will lurk with flashlights - and killers will become unable to defend or stave off aggressive survivor players, as even allowing a solitary second of healing to transpire can steal any momentum to the survivor's side anew. Killers will lament this perk's existence and the threat of its potency as they lose hook state after hook state to bully squads that will force the killer to pick up at a pallet, leave their friend to self-revive, or waste time trying to wait out a perk that may or may not even exist.
Basically, not only is it itself broken, but it would have the opposite effect of what it is intended to do.
Buckle Up is the perk that survivor players should look to if they want to sweep in for a daring save, and use boldness and cunning to turn a desperate situation into a powerful escape.
This incarnation is broken, because unlike Unbreakable or Exponential - which adhere to economy and service niche purpose - this Buckle Up version would obliterate daring escapes and bog the entire game down into dull hook-state games, and would see diminishing use at lower MMR as its effects are deleterious and self defeating where they are not powerful to a fault. All the while, killers will pull their hair out as survivor players use this perk as a means to play even safer than before and extract incredible value from a perk with limited conversion rates. Instead of making games faster and more fun, this perk would make them stale and more frustrating.
A perk for gutsy saviors that is so unbelievably strong in prospect that it will doom anyone that you touch to the hook, all while promoting a sense of safety and conservative playstyles that defeat the thesis of the perk's inception.
-
Wait a minute Sluzzy... isn't this... normal gameplay?
-
@ihateboons said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3000572#Comment_3000572
Why are you derailing the topic?
Stop post jacking. Either comment on the subject matter or don't.
I also asked them WHY they disagreed. No response.
Wow.
So now, disagreeing is bing a killjoy.
Pointing out that you're being rude to others for no reason is considered 'post jacking'.
At least we all know what kind of member of the community you are.
Pets in Dead By Daylight is a creative idea, but misguided and completely impractical.
It is a shame to see such an innocent topic tumble into vitriol for no good reason. It could all have been avoided if you could have taken 'no' as a simple answer.
Have a nice day, Boon.
I hope future posts will not divide us further.
-
@steponmeadiris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3000630#Comment_3000630
The way I see it, his admiration was less about the violence, and more of a wish to be as strong as his father — strong enough to no longer have to fear him and follow his commands. Evan definitely has anger issues and violent tendencies, but he doesn't have the evil sadism of killers like Ghost Face and Trickster.
True and True.
But it's like saying that sort of murdering people horribly is a lot better than totally being down with murdering people horribly.
Either way, Evan is murdering people horribly - that's his function as a killer. He's probably not going to revel in it like sadistic killers, but regardless of his methods - he is far from a gentle soul in the trials. His perks alone label him as Agitated, Unnerving, and Brutal.
-
@steponmeadiris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3000563#Comment_3000563
It's brutal either way, but I feel it's much crueler to crush their skull with a trap. Hitting someone multiple times with a machete has one goal — to kill them. Using a trap has a lot more thought behind it, foregoing efficiency and simplicity for theatrics and torture. From how I interpret the lore, Evan doesn't really enjoy causing pain — he's just another unwilling agent of the Entity.
True enough.
Gotta say, hacking someone apart with a machete displays a much greater propensity for avarice and suffering than crushing their head in a trap.
Remember, this is also the man who felt a sense of admiration and pride in his father after confirming that he had killed Evan's mother while he was a boy. He felt that the murderous and violent outbursts of his father were something to aspire to in a way.
-
@ihateboons said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2988914#Comment_2988914
By that same logic, I can say that, which is disagreeing with them in return.
Untrue.
There is a difference between offering and asking.
If you make a post about something on a forum - you are welcoming comments, that is the nature of a forum.
When you comment on a forum, you are offering your point of view.
There is a difference between offering disagreement or a different perspective - and asking for other people to offer their points of view and insult them on a personal level when they do not agree.
There is a right to offer and a right to ask. Those who offer can disagree, but those who ask must not act entitled to validation from the community - which is exactly what this is.
-
@steponmeadiris said:
A new mori would be kinda cool, but something over-the-top violent wouldn't fit well with his lore, in my opinion. Dear old Evan is definitely not a morally good person, but I also don't feel like he's the type of guy to smash someone's head into a bear trap.
Not sure where this is coming from.
Evan is such a gentle soul that hacking a person to pieces with a machete is on the level - but pushing them into a trap isn't?
-
II think that creating a wider whip at the source to prevent FOV-tacs and making zombies un-stuck themselves would be more than enough to keep him competitive.
Making Crates/Vaccines take a second or two longer may be nice, but it's already a very strong ability in his favor. it would be a cherry on top, but too much cherry can spoil the sundae.
The add-on changes are absolutely true. There are bundles of items that buff zombie movement speed, but they are effectively useless. Licker Tongue is also a monumental disappointment. Making the items more interesting would be awesome opossum.
IMO they also have him teetering between two design philosophies that he shouldn't really fall between.
They could either make his power more consistent, extending its range at rank 1 and causing it to have reduced cooldown at rank 3 - make him feel a bit more consistent and powerful with only minor buffs each tier.
Or they could make his tier 3 much stronger with a bit weaker tier 1 to compensate, less consistent - but plays into the Nemesis style of starting at a disadvantage and ending matches as a chase ending powerhouse.
Adding a very minuscule AOE to the very tip of his whip is a personal favorite idea of mine, but it might be broken in execution - I'd love to see it in testing, though.
-
@Slan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2998805#Comment_2998805
Man, they all say that their tier lists are based on their oppinion. Of course I do not know more than them. The killer's performance always depends on the players, those who control them an those they are against. The perks also contribute a lot. And I am saying that a legion can do as well as a nurse if played well enough. It is not the usual thing, but It can happen. And this is simply to show that Dredge needs no nerf, as It can be quite weak against certain mindgames. No killer is OP, only good players make them OP. The limitations you mention also come with advantages, and those used well and paired with addons and perks can erase those limitations, and the player determines those.
(And if you don't mind, I prefer to end this discussion with your inevitable next post, so pls do not hold back anything, because you could be convincing me and maybe I have to correct my way thinking.)
You are not incorrect in saying that a good player determines the viability of a killer in overall results (A good legion will 4k, a good nurse will 4k)
However, we are speaking of even terms with optimal plays.
The best Nurse player with the best attachments can end the game in a matter of seconds if the survivors misplay their hand.
The best Legion player with the best attachments can do good, but not as good as the former.
If you put the best Huntress player with the best Huntress attachments on the best Huntress Map.
Then you put the best Shape player with the best Shape attachments on the best Shape Map.
The Huntress will provide a much more challenging opposition to the survivors each and every time.
A master Nemesis player with good perks and attachments can do well in a match.
But a master Blight with good perks and attachments can do much better given the same ideal circumstances.
Cannibal is deadly - it is true. He is lethal in the hands of newer players as well as veterans.
But the Cannibal, even when played to its best ability with the best perks, will still have a harder time at higher levels because of the nature of his ability. While an Artist player who has mastered the Artist will be able to utilize the more nebulous and utilitarian nature of her kit to greater effect as survivors use better perks and play more skillfully.
The Cannibal has one trick - it's a good trick, but once survivors learn when to throw pallets and how to safely vault windows, there's precious little a Cannibal player can do even without going into Tantrum.
The Artist has information, incredible Anti-Loop, and can use attachments to bestow oppressive status effects on survivors. A good Artist can turn a safe loop into certain death, and cut off any means of escape.
The greatest Nightmare player in the world can make their teleports and snares count the most and heap pressure on survivors through the game.
But the greatest Dredge player in the world can teleport more efficiently, shut down loops more handily, and has more incredible stealth to leverage.
While the two are invariably strong when played to their fullest potential, when the killer's kit is pushed by a master, its limits begin to show as survivors learn how to play around them.
-
I like Otzdarva's idea of making Toolboxes confer a 'Total Repair' bar that a generator cannot regress past.
in my opinion, toolboxes should last longer and give smaller boosts to speed with a ratio that determines how much of the bonus repair speed the toolbox grants is converted into Total Repair.
if this was the case, the Brand New Part could grant a toolbox +0.5 Total Repair Ratio.
Which would turn most toolboxes into massive buffers for slowdown builds.
-
@Slan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995633#Comment_2995633
But tier lists are based on personal oppinions of those Who do them. They provide arguments, true, but it is on a general point of view. In last instance, it is the playera the one who makes a killer good or bad, and you cannot deny that.
You cannot deny that the Shape is a statistically and fundamentally weaker killer than the Nurse when played at maximum efficiency.
You cannot deny that given the same parameters and setup - an Oni or Artist will have a much easier time winning a match than an Onryo or Trapper.
I may not be able to deny that player skill is a major contributing factor to efficacy, but I don't intend to.
But you must concede that there are fundamental logical and mechanical limitations imposed by the unique attributes of each killer.
(All of this ignoring the part where you basically are saying that you know more about the game than all of the professional players)
-
@Awkward_Fiend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2858010#Comment_2858010
Circle's definitely much more powerful, but DH gets on my nerves more
More than fair. I even agree with you at this point.
Ever since they dropped CoH down to 0.5 instead of 0.75 it's been a lot less as powerful.
Where my previous example had just shy of 200 seconds of value, the perk in its current state would grant less than 120 seconds of value in the same circumstance. Powerful, but 40% less potent overall.
Survivors have been pampered and boosted by the perk, which is the singular most annoying part of its existence.
When you see a survivor use it - you basically have them saying to you "I am unskilled and don't deserve to be here, but because this broken mechanic exists, I win."
-
@Slan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995070#Comment_2995070
Those experta and veteranos are the ones Who do those epic legion plays, my dude.
My oh my, it's not as if content creators with amazing Legion plays also have a consensus on what killers are strongest or weakest.
Otzdarva has a 50 4k streak on Shape, but openly places Shape in D tier and proclaims that He's the weakest in the game.
The existence of good plays and good players does not prove or even indicate the absence of skill ceilings.
-
@Slan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2994685#Comment_2994685
Yeah, well, seems like you have never seen any god legions on rank 1 before the Buff, because I have, and it is as lethal as a nurse with long blinks or a Spirit with ring.
There's a massive difference between skill ceilings, my friend.
Playing against bad survivors and/or being skilled in general does not mean that each and every killer shares the same ceiling.
If you want to make the argument that a good player can make Legion work well - no arguments from me.
But if you're trying to suggest that the best Legion play is just as potent as the best Nurse/Spirit/Dredge plat - it is to speak against the conventional knowledge garnered by millions of aggregate hours of experience accrued by experts and veterans.
-
@Slan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2991556#Comment_2991556
Pretty much like every killer. If you are good enough with any of them you are almost unbeatable.
Not at all the truth.
Some killers are certainly and clearly superior options to others.
To suggest 'All killers are like that' is to suggest that there is no passive 'tier list' and that Shape, Onyro, and Legion are all just as strong of options as Nurse, Spirit, or Blight.
-
@Phantom_ said:
Yes, it'd be really nice for most M1 killers. However, I'd say it should definitely have a longer cooldown. A Nurse or Blight with such a perk is otherwise just too evil.
Did you have any thoughts on changing it?
A few - ranging from a token based stacking buff on misses to make it better for newer players - token based one-time bonus to make it better for experienced players - to interrupting the cooldown animation with an interaction (Vault/Pickup/Break) to cancel it early.
I kind of just want to see what the community has in mind, though. i find that my personal sentiments are not always popular!
-
@Phantom_ said:
I'd love for Unrelenting to have been more like Mad Grit, without having to carry a survivor. I think that would be hilarious. Though in that case there should probably be a timer and max number of hits on it or something like that.
Creative!
So like - after missing an attack, for the next 8 seconds you have 100% missed attack cooldown with a 24 second cooldown or something like that?
-
Maybe not totally Over-Powered, but I can see him being tuned down a bit in the future.
As it is, he isn't particularly powerful in the hands of incapable killers. But with the right perk combinations with his abilities - he can be extremely difficult to play against, which may illicit some tweaks in a few months time.
-
Basically, Dredge is a very - very solid all-around killer.
Has a good anti-loop ability, mobility, information, and some in-game slowdown.
-
Solid anti-loop, map-wide teleport, built-in Oblivious and anti-information mode.
Very strong all around utility and the option to end chases or place survivors into lose-lose situations.
Also has the passive benefit of shaving several seconds off of survivor game time by encouraging them to run around the map shutting lockers, which doesn't seem like much - but a survivor shutting 2 locker doors before repairing the shack generator can buy you 5 seconds, if this is done for each generator, that's 25 extra seconds before generators are worked on - which is almost the same value as Thanatophobia.
Not broken enough to be S tier, IMO, but a lot of anti-loop, mobility, and passive slowdown. Just a generally solid all-around killer.
-
It's all or nothing - either a major overhaul that turns her into a different killer - or basically no change at all.
She's precariously balanced, any subtle change would either make her useless or too powerful.
If she needs a change, she needs to be completely changed. But saving such a controversial choice - I think the only thing she can get is a slight change to her range addons.
-
Wouldn't be a problem if they made perks reasonably balanced - which should take all of 2 employees 1 week of preparing for a presentation, 2-3 meetings, and a quick rollout.
Most of the changes to OP and UP perks could be done overnight to make the perk game more competitive and interesting.
Some overhauls and big changes can be put in place to turn dead perks into vivacious ones... and Broken perks into common ones.
TL;DR:
IF THE PERKS WERE DONE RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE THIS WOULD NOT BE NEEDED