UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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The one that gets me about Nemesis, is you can eat a zombie hit to boost away from Nemmy while also denying charges of his tentacle.
The fact it is better for a survivor to let a zombie hit them to run away is mind boggling to me... I actually had a survivor get cut off by a zombie at shack and ot scored a down on them... I was mind blown to see a zombie ACTUALLLY score me a down…
I like Nemmy as a charge up killer, a power that ramps up and gets pretty danegrous as the game goes on is cool... but damn if there aren't a good number of silly things about his power...
Edit: Now I think about it, one change (among the many I would suggest for Nemmy) is have the zombies latch on to a survivor for a few seconds, like they do in Resident Evil. Least that would make the zombies a threat, not a escape tool.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696927#Comment_3696927
Same.
A perk where; If the other survivor is on death hook, and you have no hooks, while healing them you can take a hookstage from them.
So it works once per game, and between all four survivors only a potential 2 times. (A to B, and C to D)
However, it should come in conjunction with allowing killers to see hookstages for each survivor on the HUD.
I remember that suggestion, was a great post. Was it you who created that as a discussion, or was that a random drop in a other thread?
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Alien, because watching its head wobble along as its on all 4s momentarily amuses me before it starts trying to murder me.
Also Bubba because he kinda shuffles instead of walks properly... yet is still faster than me. 😅
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It was my impression she needed Bloody Fingernails to get some pretty serious chase potency, but the main thing with Sadako is she is a little unintuitive, and doesn't play like you'd expect her to (a bit like Singularity pods doent work for holdimg gens, it takes a different mindset to what you would expect).
Sadako in my experience seems to be a killer you don't commit to a survivor until you score a down like most killers, instead you keep dancing around the map and keep wounding and pushing people off gens, taking a hit or a strong pallet, then leaving... do not bother trying to catch up and secure a down, you waste too much time.
The logic is each survivor can only disable 1 TV at a time by grabbing a tape. Once they have grabbed a tape they have to go get rid of it before they can grab another one... so your strategy is to keep wounding survivors, and keep going back and pushing people off gens... this burns out the timers on the TVs so now survivors start getting condemned.
You may be thinking "but that TV is disabled", and this is true, but there is rarely not another gen nearby with a TV that you can port to, and your small TR with that bit of stealth can let you keep getting close to score hits, or at least burn resources.
This starts a chain reaction effect where survivors are wasting a lot of time healing, dealing with condemn and slowly chewing through their resources where the simple demand on their time starts to snowball out of control, and it only takes one misjudged decision to get rid of a tape and suddenly you can get a lot of pressure.
She's a bit weird, and I'm not good enough to say whether she is effective against good survivors or not... but this is the method of play that works for me.
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Almost always unless I'm doing a challenge, I'm 1 pip away from ranking up in Gold/Iri grades, or the last player has been a rat all game and left their team to die.
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@DaddyMikeyMori said:
Did anyone read my suggestion at all? Any thoughts?
My big concern there is the knowledge it grants when you're not running an aura perk. Even Distortion doesn't say for sure you're not running a perk... having it known for sure you aren't running one opens a lot of value.
E.g. always hiding behind rocks near gens knowing Nowhere to Hide isn't in play. Never coming off gens before a hook knowing Barbeque is not in play, not fearing healing in the killers TR cause you know Nurse's Calling is not in play...
Is a surprisingly large amount of information when you don't hear that chine.
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I feel like Spine Chill would be a good candidate for this role.
Object of Obsession actual gives you the killers aura, which is insane information, but comes with a big risk.
If Spine Chill scrapped the LoS thing to not shaft stealth killers, and merely gave you its bonuses when your aura was revealed, you wouldn't know the killer was coming for you, but you would be able to discern their perks and react accordingly. The vault bonus can stay, as that has counter potential for perks like Friend's Til The End, I'm All Ears and other long aura read/anti loop aura reading abilities. This could also synergise with OoO for a nice combo.
Distortion then becomes a block auras perk, but is tokem driven, if it doesn't charge in chase (which is a sensible nerf), then you have the safetest aura read perk, but it isn't 100% always available.
This I feel gives a nice trio of perks with similar functionality with a healthy list of pros and cons.
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Regarding this issue of techs and skill expression, I saw this very interesting video from Justin Wong talking about this very phenomina in fighting games. Fighting games are in my opinion probably the most important games to be talking about skill expression, balance, mechanics and the importance of techs. (Do bear in mind I'm not really a fighting games fan, I just find them interesting from a game design perspective).
I won't colour the opinions of the video, I'll just leave them without context, but I do think the points he makes here are quite relevant to this discussion, evne if it is for another very different gaming media.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zCIWWw5pLo -
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697915#Comment_3697915
Should we make a post about it?
Is there already one?
I havne't had a chance to verify any of this, but I've been seeing a few videos about buggy animations popping up in my feed. Maybe it's this that you're seeing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_U06QEDZvA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90s0I1e6WxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBzlsizgmP4 -
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697184#Comment_3697184
But it makes sense as part of his power... Hug tech/sliding is the logical consequence of his collision detection that is based on your view angle. Which is quite obvious now that both got removed.
This is the most basic thing about how his collision works... I remember a video made by Lilith Omen where he explains that Blight has two ways to detect collision and this one is the secondary, if I remember correctly.
Well, I'm not an expert on Blight hug tech, so I wasn't really taking a stance.
My actual point is that if there's a bug that facilitates something unintended, but the mechanic is good, it should be rolled in as proper feature, not left as a bug.
If I were to take a stance on Blight hug tech with my limited knowledge it would be, people understand Blights power to be rushing in mostly straight lines at high speed, and the survivor gameplay is to predict those rushes and be in a position where they can evade each angle of attack. Hug tech allows Blight to turn far more around corner than you would normally expect from this game play loop, and since he can rush so quickly, it comes across as unfair to players who don't understand what is happening.
So instead of it being a weird trick that doesn't make sense, make it a proper feature of the power with its own tell of some description. I don't think that's too controversial a take?
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I don't agree with the overall conclusion of the video that all of these things being removed makes the game less fun. From my perspective BHVR look to be trying to resolve things that are exploitable and unfair. There are some things that perhaps should have stayed, and some things that should be changed/removed.
The flashlights at lockers is something duos can bait for, and can constantly put the killer in a lose lose situation. That had to go.
Flashlight burns on Wraith and Artist crows allowed survivors to double team them ith flashlights and hard counter them, messing with them at loops while they are trying to mind game a teammate and forcing them to be a m1 killer most of the match. That had to go.
Flashlight burn on Hag traps is a little more interesting and fair, have it as a faster trap clear at the expense of your item, but the wipe away mechanic being added as a weaker version of this is fine in the grand scheme. This is feature that can be argued coming back.
Flashlight burn on Nurse I still don't quite grasp... I know how it was hard to do, and in the case of Nurse, it's almost impossible bully her with flashlights, so again that is a feature that could be argued shpuld come back.
The removal of mechanics always has 2 sides. That has to be remembered when looking at any game feature in an asym. There is no blanket 1 size fits all for every mechanic in the game. You can't make your mind up on anything until you've heard the issue, and every single one needs to be carefully weighed up individually.
Some things Slushie complains about being removed are reasonable complaints, and should be considered for reintroduction to the game... there are other things that aren't, where the cons outweigh the pros, and should absolutely not return.
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My personal opinion on things like this, is if the mechanic is genuinely fun, it should be analysed WHY it is fun, and rolled into the game properly as a logically consistent feature. Keeping in its bugged state is the wrong solution. All of the examples cited were rolled into the game as proper mechanics.
The problem with Hug techs, and why they are divisive, is it betrays the fundamental understanding of how the power works. It may well be fun for high levels of play who are aware of it and understand how the bug works, but as stated by numerous players, it is very tricky, and takes a LOT of time to master.
On Blight specifically, he is a very strong killer, even without Hug tech. Facing him is already hard, so if he also has a mechanic that doesn't make sense as feature of the power, thatbfurther requires hours of labbing and online investigation to even get a decent handle on what is even happening, it makes it very difficult for someone to learn against.
So if Hug tech should stay a thing, roll it as a proper feature that makes sense.
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The way to partially deal with this is to stand in front of the heal techer and hit them into the map instead of towards the exit. This also.means you're standing ON the crawling survivor when your animation finishes.
You can also partially deal with it by body blocking as well, it is definitely a scramble though. If everyone is full HP though and noone makes a mistake... yeah you're kinda stuffed...
Not sure the scenario happens enough really to call it a problem. Either you have them comfortably, or you lose them... it's rare the heal tech is what makes the difference.
It feels like this takes a lot of coordination and perfect timing for the survivors to pull off without someone dying... so I don't think I'd call the escape "free".
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DC penalty should stay.
Griefing by spamming unhook on a player in struggle phase should also stay, as its primary use is to force a SoH player to DC.
Its simple really, if you DC or SOH because you can't be bothered to play, you throw the rest of the team under the bus. It's extremely selfish to give up on a game that YOU joined and requires YOU to play.
If you don't wanna play? Fine. Don't queue. If you queue, commit to the game and don't ruin it for everyone else.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696026#Comment_3696026
This advantage is something that can be done with skills still, I really loves removing skill gap
Does it matter if you don't need to learn maps anyway
That's all well and good for players who don't want to develop their skill… but what about the players who do? What if I want the satisfaction of learning to analyze the map around me and take stock of available pallets and windows as I move through the map? It's the same thing as Dark Souls as a game, you never really level up to the point you can smash your way through the game, your actual strength in those games comes from your own devleopment of your skills.
If you make WoO basekit, you're forcing that change upon me as well, and it is extremely hard to ignore something available to you freely; it's easy to become lazy and not bother to develop your skill at something if you don't need to. In it's current form, it's a choice the player can make to make their playstyle lazier or not.
That's not to say the game being more casual friendly is necessarily a bad thing. If a player doesn't want to develop their skills they shouldn't have to, but that mundane playstyle also affects players they are against as well. E.g. using claymore mines and camping in a corner in CoD is effective, but it's lame and unfun for other players… and the DBD equivalent of that is running pallet to pallet and just throwing them back to back. It works… but it's lame…. so there are benefits for the game overall by limiting this type of play.
My nerf is indeed a hit for players who don't want to develop their skills and just want to hold W pallet to pallet true enough, but it's not a huge nerf that completely kills the perk and that more casual playstyle. The perk pretty much remains the same, but you need to pay a little more attention. A player might have to actually loop for 8s or so and win an exchange before they can resume holding W blindly. Asking a player for a little engagement with the game is not a bad thing to my mind.
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The thing with this map, is the generator by the circular garden on the opposiute side from the Cinema, and especially the generator in the Cinema itself are both basically no mans land for the killer. It's almost pointless trying to defend them. Instead you're better off defending the 5 core generators in the middle of the map.
I'm no expert on maps, havne't been playing long enough to really be able to say what maps are good or bad (or if I can, I struggle to identify why), but I do quite well on either side in this one, simply because I understand this fact that the outer gens are a waste of time. Its the gens in the middle that decide the game.
If you get a team that fighs for the middle gens, using the time that the double pallet rocks and alike gives you, and pressure them all early, survivors usually have a good game. If you waste those early strong pallets though and your team spends all their time and resources on the outer 2 gens that are almost freebies anyway, then it's rough.
Gate spawns tend to be quite far apart with the related pros and cons.
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695872#Comment_3695872
op isn’t talking about the perk being bugged
Survivors can outright negated the penalty by 99ing their healing and then tanking a hit to avoid the penalty
Ooooh gotcha! Now I got it! Thanks!
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695875#Comment_3695875
Why wouldn't you able to learn structures with it? I admit that I know every map anyways because I play killer more than survivor, but I can tell pretty good which palette aura is related to which structure in the map and therefore I know how to loop it from there. Of course that means you still have to think for that to work like that. I don't say there aren't any players that just autopilot it, but that's on them using it wrong and not the perks fault.
That's the thing, you already know the maps.
If you don't know the maps, using WoO highlights all the windows and pallets, and basically sets your route automatically. You don't have to learn the maps, because the perk does the work for you.
I call it a satnav perk because its the same effect as a satnav when driving. If you drive somewhere without a satnav, and instead have to learn the route via landmarks, you can drive somewhere maybe once or twice, and you know the route.
If you use a satnav, you can drive the route 100 times and still not know tne route, because you never learn any landmarks or environmental cues, so the moment you don't have the satnav, you don't know where you're going.
Windows of Opportunity has exactly the same effect.
For higher levels players, WoO tells them pallet states and structure spawns. For low level players, it's a satnav, and it makes them worse at the game, and that is from my own low level player perspective.
So I want to nerf it so high level players can still use it how they would normally use it, but low level players can't use it as an auto path tool, it doesn't just light the way, they have to remember and recall the information WoO revealed to them after they take a pallet/window, which will ACTUALLY help learn the maps, and benefit them in the long run.
With this change I would start recommending WoO to néw players, as opposed to how it is now, where I recommend it only so they don't get immediately crushed at loops and can see the fun of DBD, at which point I tell to ditch it ASAP.
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@Neaxolotl said:
I'd even say make this basekit, ultimately that just reduces gap between best and worst players so making game more consistent
I would be vehemently against this for the same reason as above. WoO makes players bad at the game, and I absolutely don't want to have this perk in my loadout because of the bad habits it gives me.
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To be fair... the OP is not wrong. If you play WoO while learning, you won't learn any of the maps or how to get better at looping them, because your pathing becomes autopilot, so you never actually develop any of your pathing or looping skills.
I had to ban myself from running it, because it severely hinders my ability to assimilate and learn the structure of maps. It's annoying, cause when onboardimg a new player, I want to tell them to use WoO to help them be somewhat effective at making windows and pallets while in chase and experience tne fun part of DBD... but I also know this hurts them in the long run…
I would want it nerfed, not because it's OP, but because it actively hurts you from getting better at the game. It's the satnav of DBD, you never learn where you're going, cause you just rely on and follow the satnav.
I would prefer it even if it had a just had a flat 32m range, and a 10/9/8s cooldown after taking a rushed action or dropping a pallet, just so you actually have to briefly remember the layout of the tile/map in order to use it.
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That seems like a bug... the way the perk is worded the haemorrhage and mangled effects should be separate from healing penalty...
I haven't seen in play from survivor side, but if it's not applying the slowdown effect after being healed, then that should be reported as a bug to my mind 🤔
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Object of Obsession is pretty good when you're not the Obsession though.
In that scenario you just get info for free whenever the killer reveals your aura, and the big difference is the killer is not aware the perk is in play... this basically turns the killers own aura reads against them, especially in a SWF.
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Unfortunately this completely falls second fiddle to Sprint Burst, which can be used for the exact same effect, and also be used to get a good lead whenever the killer turns up.
Perk definitely needs something though, cause right now it's completely useless. Maybe if its 10s no scratch marks effect was granted any time after completing a conspicuous action, which would include:
- Generators
- Heals
- Unhooks
- Sabotages
- Totems
- Gates
Thee are some scenarios there where that would be useful, such as:
- A sabotage bulld, where you sabo a hook near a gen to make a noise notification and leave no scratch marks as you run from it.
- Use it with Babysitter so the unhook survivor and you both leave no scratch marks as you run from hook.
- Bite the bullet to heal silently when the killer is nearby, then sprint away without scratches once healed. Possibilities for a a strong effect if 99ed.
- Combine with Counterforce and Inner Strength for a Sneaky, anti-hex, self healing build.
This would give it some opportunity where an innovative player can get value.
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@VASRIO said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695165#Comment_3695165
Yeah, that's why I think the best option is to allow custom scratch mark colors that you can change depending on the map, as 1 single color for all maps doesn't really do the job. My problem is not only on dead dawg, although dead dawg is like the worst possible example. Ormond is actually really bad too, which I can't really explain why since the ground is white, but it's also incredibly hard to separate the red scratch marks from the background.
The thing with color-blindness, is that it's not only that we can't see the color properly, but mix colors up, but it's also an issue of saturation. If the scratch marks seem very saturated and distinct for those with normal color vision, for me they're incredibly washed out and don't stand out from the ground. The colour blind filters change the colors to something more distinguishable, but they don't saturate them at all, which leaves me with very pale, washed out colors to work with regardless.
Let me demonstrate to you exactly what I see, as accurate as I can:
WITHOUT FILTERS:
Here's a possible example of what SM look for me on most maps. Then again, I'm not sure if you see exactly what I am seeing, but supposedly, these colorblind filters are supposed to replicate colorblind vision. Now, as you can probably tell, I can see the dark blood below the hook and the scratch marks above it (because they're on a very dark ground).
But other than that, in the video I screenshotted, there was a survivor running all the way up to trough the hook, so the scratch marks are supposed to lead to them directly. I can only see the scratch marks above the blood pool, and the rest of the green lines, I can't really tell if it's scratch marks or grass, it literally looks the same.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UV19O74MRAD1/download.png
Now the scratch marks for you would look like this I presume, this is the original. Let me know if you can see any scratch marks beyond the ones above the pool of blood under the hook, because I cannot.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MCIVCZOWEVP0/cb.png
WITH FILTERS:
Now let me show you what the filters do. Here is the original with the filters for you (what you see presumably).
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0IWYEE25XRXE/filter.png
And here is what I see even with the filters (presumably again, bc I am not sure how accurate these colorblind simulators are):
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0S27OC9TDLHP/pilestone.jpg
It is slightly better than without the filters, there is no doubt. They do look slightly more distinguishable than the grass. But it's simply not distinguishable enough to not get confused sometimes and lose chase.
I really hope this simulation was accurate, and you could get the picture, because I understand it's super hard to replicate these things and see what the game looks like from my perspective.
Yikes, yeah, that's pretty dire 😅
Tbh it's kinda looking like those filters aren't working right, because the base images are not that far different to my eye. The approximated filtered versions highlight the problem, it is SLIGHTLY better in the filtered version... but not by much... without them side by side I couldn't tell the difference.
Allowing for a custom scratch marks colours is still probably a good idea to add anyway, though I'd almost be tempted to file this as a bug... because although I am a layman and don't know what a corrected version should look like, the original and filtered version both looks pretty similar to me as a non colourblind person...
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695220#Comment_3695220
Yes adding such types of perks is good, but only if it benefits the perk and if it makes sense. I also like friends till the end. In this case it wasn‘t a scorch hook perk before and it became irrelevant by becoming one. This perk could be a decent tracking perk, but it is limited to scorch hooks. I would love to see undying working for all types of totems or it returning to it‘s op form.
Aye is fair, though old Hangman's Trick was already pretty irrelevant, and outclassed by pretty much any other aura perk.
It became even worse ofc with the Scourge Hook change, but that doesn't lead me to think it's inherently a mistake to make it a Scourge Hook. I'm more interested in ideas to make Hangman's Trick a good Scourge Hook perk that just another good aura perk on the already large pile of aura perks.
Doesn't have to be ofc, but that's my personal preference because the discussion is more interesting to me. 😁
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695047#Comment_3695047
why do you want this perk to even be a scorched hook perk? It could be decent when it was every hook.
Honestly? I like the quirkier mechanics in DBD, like Obsession perks, Boons, Hexes, Scourge Hooks, etc, and I encourage adding perks workimg with these mechanisms to make them relevant. E.g. Friends Til The End is a great addition to the game, because it makes a lot of other Obsession perks useful in niche builds.
No one is gonna run Hangman's Trick if it's just auras around hooks, there are plenty of options that will be generally more useful. Unless HT gives a ridiculous meta shifting level of aura read, it'll continue to sit on the pile of unused perks. That's just the way it is, it's concept can not compete with the significant number of other aura perks that are more reliable.
Having Hangman's Trick as a scourge hook perk gives it alternative means of being relevant, and making it a Scourge Hook support perk (like Hex: Undying is to hexes) actually gives it a unique purpose, where even if it itself isn’t that strong, can still find it's way into builds.
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Suppose a question I would throw out there, who SHOULD be the benchmark?
I'm thinking somewhere between Wesker and Demogorgon. Falling around the Oni, Plague, Xeno kind of level?
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Yah hard nope. If I wanna play bots, I'll play custom. I play the public game to learn and develop. Bots teach me how to mind game a bot, and that's a different skill.
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Curious the colour blind mode doesn't work for you, especially as you have the most common type of colour blindness.
Do you mind if I ask (because obviously for anyone not colour blind it makes it hard to envision the problem), how do scratch marks look for you on Dead Dawg exactly?
These might be bad examples, do you have a reference image that can be run through a colour blind simulation to help understand and give BHVR a chance to address the problem? Is it only Dead Dawg or do other maps create similar issues?
Not against the point though, if scratch marks are in your field of view, the important part is they should be visible. The colour doesnt really matter.
The immediate issue with say white scratch marks is you'll be fine on Dead Dawg, but you'll be screwed on Ormond... with the variety of different coloured maps now there will probably be a particular combo the colour blind modes don't help on. Having an alternative colour like "blue" for those maps that you can toggle to might be helpful.
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I have wondered if giving Dredge fixed remnants at generators could resolve his map dependency and can be done without breaking the character somehow.
The problem ofc and why I havent suggested it is it would easily push Dredge to being OP with how readily available his TP for gen presense would be. The gen remnants ofc need a LOT of trade offs so they were not his default best choice every time.
For all intents and purposes they function like lockers, with something like the following restrictions:
- Requires full charges to traverse to.
- Consumes all charges.
- Always takes the same time to leave as a locked locker in the respective normal or Nightfall modes.
- Makes a unique audio cue to warn survivors.
I get concerned this is touching on other killers territory as well, but it's the only idea I've got to trim the map dependency back 🤔
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@Caiman said:
This is probably the worst Scourge Hook perk, and one of the worst killer perks in the game. It needs more, so I'll suggest this:
- Increase the aura-read range around Scourge Hooks to 16 meters
- New effect: if a survivor begins sabotaging a Scourge Hook, they are Exposed for 30 seconds.
That seems pretty decent to me. I've seen a number of good Scourge Hook: Hangman's Trick suggestions, and I quite like this one.
Keeps its identity as the anti-sabo perk, thematically fits the Pig as it makes saboing it a risky choice.
I might also suggest something like add an additional scourge hook, just so there is more chance of aura value, there is more chance for you to get that sabo exposed value, and gives some extra utility in builds even if no one is saboing.
Like it.
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I disagree. Survivors are sacrificing health states for those blocks, and it is the very last option survivors have to deny attempts to tunnel.
I know the frustration you feel, I make a point of killing Boil Over players ahead of anyone else, but the game loses more than it gains with this change.
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Always keen on a Hangman's Trick buff.
Just to be clear, these regular Hooks turning to Scourge Hooks be in addition to the existing 4 you start with?
I feel like mechanisms to make it easier to get your scourge hooks is the direction this perk should go, and this is interesting as a scaling scourge hook perk. I feel like just denying sabotage though on these might be a little overkill, as I'm not keen on hard counters.
To be honest, even if the perk just allowed you to turn 1 or 2 normal hooks into a scourge hook at will... that's already decent.
Another change I would like is being able to see the auras of your Scourge Hooks at all times. This would at least make it easier to prepare for your Scourge Hooks, and we would the be ready to look for auras that get picked up.
With those 2 changes I would consider using it.
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Not so convinced Furtive Chase is bad, it has some interesting niches with Friend's Til The End, Nemesis or Game Afoot. With FttE obsession perks have a new lease on life I feel.
Blood Echo could do with some love, Leverage definitely needs a lot of Love, and Hangman's... oh boy... this needs a really hard buff.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694741#Comment_3694741
Its one of the campfire chats sucks they dont save trhe vods but its been said numerous times and thats why the number is 60%. Ima go do something productive cause literally everyone here has no numbers no data im the only one showing anything that's factual and everyone else is like nu uh lol.
here goes a thread about it
That quote doesn't say what you say it does.
We try to keep Killers near a 60% kill rate on average to keep matches relatively even and support the horror theme of the game, where the Killer is a force to be reckoned with and the survival is not guaranteed.
"Relatively even" seems to contradict your point heavily, implying by the fact they say "and support" instead of "while supporting" that a lower kill rate of 50% does not make the matches "relatively even". It seems you're putting words in other peoples mouths.
Everyone has no numbers, no data, I'm the only one that's showing anything that's factual
Thing is, you make it very hard to have a reasonable conversation with you. I've already explained why those numbers don't paint the complete picture, and should be taken with a very big grain of salt.
The people who have the complete picture (I.e. BHVR) have even stated "do not use these numbers to draw conclusion"s, as several people before me already have pointed out; this serves as pretty strong reasoning to say why the conclusions you are drawing from those stats are flawed.
The problem is instead of engaging with any of those points, you take a very combative approach, and instead simply tell people they're wrong, without any attempt to understand their point or try to include it into some kind of better informed counterpoint.
It comes across as you expertly ignoring anyone who contradicts your narrative, and simply throwing out another weak counterpoint with flimsy evidence that suggests you have no intention of actually debating anything, and are instead just obsessed with being "right".
Needless to say, THAT isn't productive.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694734#Comment_3694734
Well guess the devs saying they want it killer sided and a 60% rate which its at isnt enough… The people literally making the game saying they want it slighlty killer sided isntr enough data . OK goodbye lol.
That's a great quote that BHVR have officially stated they want the game killer sided. I'd love to read it.
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@Hexling said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZQ607A7MHB3W/image.png
Here it goes found it. Any more questions anyone?
Doesn't address my point. That is against the top 5% of killers, who are playing the strongest characters.
There is not enough data here to draw objective conclusions. Everything anyone here is trying to claim, is based on subpar information and conjecture. That is the only fact in this thread.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694719#Comment_3694719
The new study i cant find but its "i know" they released info with solo dou threes and full swf on high and low mmr and the 4 man swf still only escaped 48% of the time at the 5% mmr
Yes, and my original assertion is these results at 48.6% are against the top 5% of killers in the game, and the top 5% in the game will be playing the best killers in the game...
So my original point is, you cannot prove that majority of the killer roster does indeed have a better than 50% escape rate vs. Top 5% MMR Survivors in a SWF.
I can't disprove either... but based on guesstimate, I would say most of the killer roster has a greater than 50% escape rate in this scenario.
This is what I mean by you can't prove conclusively the game is survivor or killer sided via stats. It depends on what data you choose to ignore.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694691#Comment_3694691
The study is actually based off of all the killers and there individual kill rates that play at that 5% mmr including 4 man swfs.
Is that a "I think" or "I know"?
I've read the very pages where those stats were released, and there is nothing I've seen that concretely proves that statement is true.
You know for sure that the Trappers in those results are Trappers that are in the top 5% matches of all killers?
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694684#Comment_3694684
No if you look at the data even trapper at high 5% mmr has a 56% kill rate. 56>50 meaning its a slightly killer sided.
What is top 5% MMR Trapper though?
Is that the top 5% of Trapper players or top 5% of all killers? Cause I very much doubt you are getting any high level Trappers playing the top 5% MMR 4 man SWFs.
Again stats are only as good as the data you choose to ignore.
The best that could be said based on the data available is that the matchmaking is killer sided.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694310#Comment_3694310
Thats not what the data says.
@Firellius said:
I should start by saying that there is one situation where the game is survivor sided, and that's when there's an extremely well-coordinated SWF who are actively tryharding to win the game.
According to the stats, not even that is survivor-sided.
Top 5% survivor MMR escape rate is of course accounting for the fact we're talking about the players facing the top 5% MMR killer players in the game, who are of course gonna be playing the strongest characters in the game yes?
Because in the top 5% of 4 man SWF players I'm pretty damn sure the top 5% of killers playing Myers wouldn't fare so well compared to those playing Blight. So if I were to guess, it's maybe a 10% swing based on the killer you play (and I think I'm low balling that).
So if we split the difference across the 35 killers, and assuming an even distribution of killers across that 48.6% to 58.6%, this would mean only 5 killers would be even or better than a high level SWF escape rate, and 30 killers would have greater than a 50% escape rate?
This would mean that for 85% of the killer roster, the game is survivor sided at the highest levels of play, yes? It's quite easy to bend numbers to your narrative. Statistics are only as good as the data you choose to ignore.
I wouldn't rely on these stats numbers so heavily in your argumentation.
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Its a bold claim Cotton, let's see if it pays off for him.
DBD was a game more about stealth originally, and while I am a horror fan and I enjoy stealth in this game, the stealth elements have been drastically reduced via auras, screams, etc, and it is not the reason the game has climbed to the heights it has. DBD grew up from its original concept, and has a unique identity as a game largely defined by experience and mind games, as well as mechanical skill.
Positioning and understand of layout and timings at tiles, and experience regarding what powers and perks are in play is what separates good and bad players... Plenty of games have tried to do what DBD does, and all have fallen short because they simply lack the skill expression elements of DBD...
I you want a game where the killers are dangerous and powerful, that is more about hiding instead of looping, play Texas Chainsaw Massacre, it is pretty goof at that... but DBD is not that, and would kill itself trying to be.
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I came here for an insightful suggestion for serious consideration in being added to the game.
Did not leave disappointed.
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I accept my fate being single AF for the rest of my days if the alternative is to be a DS2 fan xD
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692534#Comment_3692534
I have played DS1 and DS3. I liked DS3 a lot more. Great to hear that you are this experienced at the games!
Am I wrong or did the DLC´s in past games add no further achievements to the games?
Dark Souls 1 and 3 that is true.
I am unfortunately a DS2 hater, so I dont know about that one. I know some people love it, but it has so many small irritating flaws that compound to just consistently annoy me, to the point that I can't play it.
Bloodborne has additional trophies for each of its DLC bosses. I'd recommend it if you can play it. It's got a pretty different feel to play, but is a very engaging mix up of the formula. Like the other games there are things that are very annoying to deal with for a first time player, as with all Soulsborne games (won't say any more due to avoiding spoilers). There are also a few fights where they tried something different, and it didn't work so well... However once you get into the groove and rhythm of Bloodborne, it becomes a front runner for one of the best of the games.
I played Sekiro briefly, you can tell that game is a masterpiece... but the mechanics are not for me, so not sure on that one either.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692504#Comment_3692504
That's what I really enjoy about elden ring. The game is as hard as you want it to be.
In my first playthrough, I went all Dex with the halo sythe and failed at some bosses.
ER was my first souls game, so I was pretty bad.
Kater I used mimic tear extensively, which made bosses noticeably weaker. This did not mean, that I didn't leant though. I got better and better and beat late game bosses without it.
Maliketh, Placidusax and especially Godfrey are some of my favorites.
Now that better, I just want to max out everything to get 100%.
I also want a "can do everything" - character. So I'm around Lvl 260 right now and try to max intelligence.
Fire giant is down, now comes farum azula.
Looking really forward to it.
Are you guys also excited for Shadow of the erdtree?
Truthfully a little nervous... ER was a monster of a game, and the Soulsborne games tend to go pretty nuts in their DLC.... every DLC has been as difficult as it is amazing...
No sure I've got the stones for it anymore xD
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… In fairness… it's pretty on brand for Chucky 😏
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Really enjoy Bubba's nowadays. They're almost always cool. Scary to face, and a real heart pump to loop… but mostly fair and reasonable, thougha little prone to getting done on the map RNG…
Actually been playing him more lately. He is one hell of a snowball character. If the survivors don't give you a wide berth and try to be cheeky looking for pallet saves, flashies and alike, one false step and you suddenly switch a game from feeling like you're leaning on the ropes, sucking in air and trying to survive, to throwing a single punch, catching the chin and you're now swinging for a knockout.
Lots of fun… but I'm really trying to work out how you play without Bamboozle… because it seems frigging dire without it… That said, the new perk Unbound might be the sauce…
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692490#Comment_3692490
I'm playing a bleed - blackflame Swordstress build.
Super fun so far.
@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692487#Comment_3692487
Enjoy. NG+ was my fav playthrough. That was the run I traded my Unga Bunga Strength build in for a bleed build with Dragonmancy and just went maximum nuclear destruction. It was great.
I was never one for NG+, I always stopped at 120 in the other Soulborne games (150 in ER), and found that once the build was complete NG+ just increased damage… but never enough to make the earlier areas noticably harder, and the later areas was the same fight, jsut less room for errors.
I personally prefer NG builds with restrictions instead, I always refuse starting Journey 2 and leave all my toons at the gate in front of Radagon to help other players through that final fight :D
After my first playthrough (which was a Patrizan build), I did builds for: -- Kerillian from Vermintide 2 (3 seperate loadouts to represent the different classes, including longbow and various combinations of sword&dagger, daggers, swords, spear&shield, as well as Lorettas bow sorceries, invisibility, etc, etc).
- Guts (Buster Sword obv w/ a Big fireball pyromancy for his cannon arm. Used the Night's Cavalry armour… he looked pretty damn close in the end!).
- Millicent (ofc Malenia's Hand for Waterfowl, Malenia gloves, and the Travellers armour set).
- Quelana from DS1 (Only Pyromancies, and only those matching spells from DS1, Torrent is banned, using mostly Fia's set)
I haven't finished Quelana… I got to the double fight with the Lionel Mistbegotten and Crucible Knight BS duo fight in front of Radahn. Being that I'm a glass cannon with pretty slow attacks who needs to drink a LOT of blue, just the Crucible Knight is hard enough… with a Crack Addict Simba wielding a sword running at me constantly and a Chad Knight lining up to skewer any time I try to hit it… it's quite an ugly fight.
I could kill Renala first to remove it… but I wanted to do this fight first to see if I can finally figure out how to search Redmane Castle fully... the roof areas with loot I've never reached always seems blocked off and wondered if killing these 2 first unlocked more of the castle… Trying to do this on this character though seems unwise :S
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@tonydim said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692451#Comment_3692451
While I do not exactly agree with the choice of 150s duration, the rest is actually super interesting!
The jackbox idea is very creative, congratulations.
I feel like you exactly understood what my intention with Clown is.
Cheers lad, you could also make it permanent, having it be 150s was more a conservative approach, not wanting to give him TOO much in one go… not making it so you HAVE to go to a box, but it is preferable. Arguments either way though.