UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707840#Comment_3707840
Boons are way better than people give them credit for. I run overzealous/CoH/shadowstep and reassurance and I get a lot of value out of them. Sometimes I switch one to exponential when I get a feeling an Oni is about to crop up.
The problem is that although they're good, they aren't good enough to be an entire side objective. So people waste time trying to find them when they could be doing gens. The correct thing to do is bless totems on your way to other objectives, not at the detriment of those objectives.
I also like Overzealous for builds such as this. I enjoy running boon builds; the problem is for the boons that require some interaction with the killer to gain value.
The 24m range is so short for shadowstep, dark theory and exponential that the need to stay near them for thw benefit limits your looping options significantly, and can easily be shut down by the killer. As such there isn't really much reason to run them due to that time deficit setting them up, and the lack of portability they provide.
CoH and Illumination avoid this problem because their boosts are survivor centric, and don't require killer interaction for value. Illumination has the problem that it is an effect that isn't too valuable on its own and would benefit from having a much larger radius so as an info perk you can ensure you and your team have a lot of info across a sizable portion of the map.
This basically leaves CoH as the only somewhat viable boon, maybe with shadowstep as a form of Distortion to make it harder for the killer to identify your CoH site.
The rest, fall woefully short. Sadly the range changes alone aren't likely to see them gain value, but it would at least free up another avenue of buffing boons, which they kinda need.
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I've often lobbied for a meme add-on to disabled Overdrive to allow poeple to play classic OG Billy as a cool easter egg nod to his original and much loved release.
Curve Billy's are also awesome, so fully support this too.
I'd like both, but I'd take either.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707837#Comment_3707837
i think even if you buff boon to 28 meter radius, all of them, they still will be unpopular perks. maybe in 32 meters, they gain a very small amount of traction where they become niche strong if SWF uses 2 boons.
Indeed, boons are generally not in a good place, but CoH is still a pretty good perk. If I were to take a pop at boon ranges offhand:
- Circle Of Healing - 24m
- Exponential - 32m (I keep umm-ing about it… it can be a bully perk… but a small radius borders on useless for non bully play)
- Illumination - 48m
- Shadow Step - 36m
- Dark Theory - 32m (Though I'd favour a rework, because movement speed is notoriously irritating to balance)
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@Devil_hit11 said:
you can make boon apply at different ranges on 1 totem. it will just look weird because you'll see shadow step icon but no circle healing icon despite being in the boon radius.
I had similar idea with scourge hook perks where lessen scourge used perks get more scourge hooks. Like monstrous shrine gets 6 outside scourge hooks while pain res get 4. lowest one applies if both get equipped.
Aye, I've queried before regarding just having different boon ranges, I think the main issue is with the chime and blue aura effect. If you have it so it is no longer clear where the boundaries of boons lies it's puts onus on having the pay attention ot the buff symbols. I don't think it's really a problem myself, but it does make trying to communicate "I have Circle of Healing in this boon! Go further in" more difficult in soloQ.
So I figure to get around that limitation and just keep it simple, use the smallest radius. Then there is no ambiguity and confusion.
Regarding scourge hooks, yeah I also like that idea. I still reckon additional scourge hook for Hangman's Trick would be a really nice buff for that perk. Makes its passive more effective, and allows it to support other Scourge Hook perks.
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Why DC? I'm too busy chuckling along with Chucky looking at it 😅
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You sir are awesome.
Some survivor metal crossovers would be great to see.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706679#Comment_3706679
I understand the 'why'. It's the 'how' that sucks. I don't even care about the duration change. Its having a perk that activates in the end game being screwed by mere RNG.
Also, it's BHVR's perogative to change things based on very STUPID things like useage. This method would serve the game better if it was used to bring other perks up to good standards, Clearly Adrenaline and the other very used perks are good. Why make them bad?! They are so backwards with this imo.
Anyway, No'ed has been the comparison to Adrenaline being an end game perk that gets screwed. For No'ed, its the bad RNG spawn. Could get destroyed immediately. But you still got some use out of it. Adrenaline can just be deleted, and that's just a no go for a lot of players.
All good though. I've stopped using it prematurely to not feel this sting too much. I'll use Distortion instead and just hope it works as well.
Just curious friend, because you're always very fair and strong in your argumentation, just want to ask why this one upsets you so much?
Adrenaline's main strength was always the ability to gain a health state while you occupy the killer for tne final gen. You are afforded the ability to play aggressive at end game because you can see the health state coming, and if there are 2 of you, an m1 killer is basically boned.
Yes sprint away at 150% is reduced by 2 seconds... but thats still a pocket Sprint Burst, which is hardly a trash effect. The extra 2 seconds was not why you took it... you take it for the health state and the quick distance to another tile, which Sprint Burst easily provides.
The only thing that's changed is you don't get the effect if you're hanging on hook... which was the unfair part of Adrenaline. The killer caught you, and any m1 killer fighting for kills at end game literally cannot possibly stop you after you come off hook if the team has any real idea what they're doing.
Not having a dig, I'm just genuinely curious what scenario it was you lost off Adrenaline that has specifically made it a no go perk for you?
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Luckily I got this first time… but it was mostly because I had an incredibly manly (or oblivious) Mikaela who constantly held gens no matter what. I let her crawl out of gate at the end because of the relief her gen stubbornness to getting this.
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Still feel a soloQ bloodpoints bonus would be cool. Like an inherent extra 25%.
People have said before "You're punishing SWFs", but I still don't see how giving a bonus to players who naturally have a tougher game can be deemed as a punishment for the players playing with friends.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
Little rant.
Why is it that whenever a bug happens with a new skin, the first thing everyone jumps to is that BHVR (or any other gaming company) purposely made the bug (or in this case feature) in order to sell more skins? Like, do people honestly think that every gaming company is out to screw over their playerbase in any way they can?I hear you man, I'm forever calling out inflammatory and ridiculous claims people make without a shred of evidence. Sometimes I fear I come across as a BHVR apologist, simply because I get so irritated with clickbait twitter-esk bull that some people throw out there completely unfounded.
I am sure the main reason most developers don't say jack to their community about whats going on a lot of the time is any news given is almost always twisted and morphed into unreal expectations and/or met with slander and vitriol all the time, and people just being flat out unreasonable. It's like poeple are so rude it's a surprise we get any information about anything.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707278#Comment_3707278
Applies to survivors too. I don't know what's up with the description. But it does work for survivors.
Edit: I think I found out. Usually, an offering that only affects you says it's "Personal". The Hollow Shell doesn't. And because the only other option is to apply it to all players, that's how it works.
Well… today I learned.
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Huh... I think this may have existed before the UE5 patch.
I would vault these locations on PS5 and BL never triggered on them... I assumed that they weren't a long enough fall. Never noticed a lack of stagger but I was likely not looking for it.
But yeah, I used to use BL a lot and I just accepted these vaults didn't work for it.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707255#Comment_3707255
My whole point was saying that it is a bad idea to say a new player should just play a long time just to be able to have a perk to help with an issue the person experiences, so basically it is bad that perk x that would be nice needs to either be bought or put hours into to get it because what they from the start sucks... I don't know I think most people that start the game don't immediately play it that much, especially if they are confronted with annoying stuff like tunneling and maybe don't know yet what to do about it... Not only is it frustrating it might as well prevent them from continuing to play, which is why the new player experience needs to improve.
That is fair, and I was a little saddened when BHVR announced they had no intention of creating new perks after Stranger Things was brought back and lost teb respective perks for Steve Nancy and Demo.
There are a number of perks that needs overhauling but we need new ones as well for sure.
I posted this a while back, no traction sadly, but I still would like to see something like these added:
@UndeddJester said:
With the loss of Stranger Things from the general perk pool, I thought I'd put forward a few suggestions to replace them. BHVR has said they have no plans for new perks, but maybe we can change their mind....
The goal to my mind isn't to necessarily create super strong meta perks, just some nice/decent perks that fill a roll in the general list that has decent usage to get going in DBD and offer some potential perk synergies. Here are mine.
Quiet Retreat
You have a knack for slipping away unnoticed.
- Shows auras of lockers within 16/20/24m.
- Slow locker entry/exit speed increased by 40%.
"We need to pick our battles... Every second it spends trying to find us, is one second closer to getting out of here... "
Locker info is something I've wanted for a while on some perk. The slow locker bonus helps for perks like Built to Last, Lucky Star, Red Herring (LoL), Inner Strength, etc, and since lowbies tend to hide a lot to make up for their lack of looping skill, this will help them hide while learning the ropes.
It also has natural usage against Ultimate Weapon and Friend's Til The End, which would be a nice method of reigning in those perks instead of giving them the nerf bat.
There is the potential for rats... but truthfully, rats gonna rat regardless, this won't be anywhere near as impactful compared to Distortion.
Gallows Humour
You know how to keep your head in the game, even in the most desperate of times.
- Activates after being hooked for the first time. Every 15% that the AFC meter fills triggers a skillcheck (akin to decisive strike).
- Successfully hitting this skillcheck pauses the sacrifice timer for 3/4/5 seconds.
"Well... it won't surrender... just give me a minute to catch my breath..."
A general anti camp perk with some interactivity. Low level games see players not commit to unhooks or trades when being camped, so this gives some means of getting more time depending on how mean the killer is playing... and may even buy enough time to keep filling the AFC if a killer insists on camping and interrupting unhook attempts.
This makes a nice alternative to Reassurance, as it is perk you have direct influence on yourself in response to being camped.
It also might help alleviate the CONSTANT barrage of people asking for anti camp to be better... even though it's fine.
Evasive Manoeuvres
You know better than to expect mercy from your foes, and act fast when needed.
- When you are unhooked you gain an additional 10% haste for 6/8/10 seconds.
- Your rushed actions do not trigger noise notifications.
- Disables once the gates are powered.
"I just ran... there was little more I could do..." - Bloody Journel, Anon
An anti tunnel perk. Helps make distance to some form of safety like a pallet or window and potentially Bamboozle the Killer with a couple of silent fast vaults, or maybe even a silent locker hop. Too often a killer can just cut off and intercept, or even just hug a unhooked survivor and wait out the BT to tunnel easily. With this the survivor is actually faster, so has a decent chance of making safety, can break line of sight, and potentially make huge distance.
This however has to be unavailable once gates are powered though, otherwise it trivialises the exodus to gate, which can already be rough enough on killers, and would push this perk to becoming potentially problematic.
These are my common survivor gripes. Locker perks feels annoying to use, and camping/tunneling are always a pain. These perks I feel would grant some decent options to the general perk pool to address as such.
Feel free to comment on any of these with suggestions, or add your own? What would you add to the general pool of perks?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707210#Comment_3707210
A whole character that in case of survivor is nothing more than a skin that breathes louder or more quiet and gives you 3 perks. Also 2 weeks? How many games do you think a new player plays in that time? You probably need around 50 h to get those shards... According to the wiki it should require around 65000 XP points to reach that level, 300xp a day for the first game on both sides, around 600-672xp per game max. If the person plays survivor probably a lot less, because the game probably won't last ten minutes, at least not for that guy.. So let's say it goes well and he gets to play 4 games an hour and gets like 350 xp per game. So 1400xp per h. That is a little less than 50 h, let's say 45 h because we still have the daily xp bonus for the first game.
So to call this two weeks the guy is playing 3 h a day for two weeks straight, without getting frustrated because he feels defenseless when the killer goes for him right away after getting unhooked and with very little understanding of how the game works at that point...
My point is not necessarily that it is bad that you need to unlock content, my point is that the new player experience sucks because you don't have good anti tunnel perks without getting additional characters.. That should not be the case, the base stuff should already be decent, but as it is right now the general perks for killer and survivor are mostly trash. Which is why beginners are very limited in their options for not only decent builds but especially for builds against tunneling.
OK fair enough, so let's say we half that to 25h.
There are people who can't manage more than 3h a day. There are also people such as single adults or students who can manage 6-8hr a day consistently, even more on weekends.
A person such as this can get a character in just 3 days. With 14 characters to unlock at 4500 shards, a player can unlock almost the entire FTP survivor roster in a about a month and a half.
So my point is dropping the prices of everything to FTP players to have the ability to unlock everything really fast removes any reasons to ever buy anything... and while there are philanthropic people who buy content to support developers, most people won't if it's too easy, and a live service game needs to keep generating revenue to stay alive. The bundles to unlock all these characters is now pretty cheap, and you get a lot of content in the Gold Edition for the price. The solution of dropping the price of everything to make it easier for new FTP players has side effects outside of making the game easier to get into for new players, it can potentially hurt the revenue stream of DBD as a whole.
Now if you want to argue to make the base pool of perks better for new players, thus making getting into the game easier with a solid base of common perks, that is something I can get behind... but trying to balance the new player experience by making all existing content much easier to acquire with in game currency has greater implications than just that.
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For me the things I hate most from survivors are: -
- Boil Over - Rarely works, just annoying to face in general.
- For The People & Buckle Up - It's flat obnoxious.
- Background Player - Annoying when survivors are on comms and ensuring they go down in the open to leave you unable to do anything.
- Distortion - Don't mind on its own, but ratting and leaving teammates to die on hook uncontested is a real pet peeve.
To my mind, any of these is a guilt free "All Bets Are Off" scenario. You get camped or tunneled after hitting the killer with these, kinda on you.
I don't camp or tunnel myself as a rule, but giving hatch or gate at the end is instantly revoked when hit with these perks, and prodded enough with these things, I'll eventually make a point of ensuring that player dies at all costs.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707184#Comment_3707184
The shrine eats a lot of shards for just one perk... And a couple of weeks still means within that time you don't have it... And you don't even know how long it takes for the perk to be in the shrine again, worst case you have to wait for months... Buying the character takes a huge amount of playtime to buy it with shards. I don't think such perks should be locked within high amounts of playtime or behind a pay wall... Besides that dead hard would probably be quite hard to use for a beginner... So that one does not really help them much anyway.
OK I'm not trying to a be an arse... but 2 weeks is an insane amount of playtime to unlock a whole character? That seems quite reasonable to me...
The shrine of secrets sucks, that isn't news... it needs a major overhaul. This is my suggestion:
@UndeddJester said:
A common thread of the Decisive Strike debate is the discussion regarding a good anti tunnel perk being stuck behind a paywall. This is a fair point, but not exactly true...because there is the shrine of secrets. The problem is, the shrine is pretty useless, and very much needs an overhaul. It very rarely has the perks you want, especially if you only play one side, and even if it does have a perk you want, you usually dont have the shards you need and now need to grind. So how would you, dear reader, rework the Shrine?
The points to consider are: -
- It needs to offer a means of fishing for perks you want, and are likely to buy, carefully balanced against the value of the perks themselves.
- It needs to be carefully balanced so that there is a reasonable trade off between time investment and monetary value. Reducing cost in the shrine is nice, but perks shouldn't be trivial to attain, putting money into the game should still be incentivised.
- Consideration of the respective value of perk tiers.
- Any other useful features.
My Personal Rework
- The shrine now offers 4 perks for survivor and 4 perks for killer.
- Of these 4 perks for each side, 2 perks each are guaranteed to be yellow (a perk not in your blood web).
- Yellow perks are more valuable than green or purple, as these get unlocked in the bloodweb. The cost of a yellow perk is 2000 shards. The green/purple upgrade versions each cost 1000.
- Instead of a rolling timer to refresh perks, survivors instead have tokens to refresh whenever they decide to, the page otherwise doesn't change/move. They build up a refresh every 3 days to a maximum of 2. (This ensures being on holiday, doesn't miss your perk).
- You may spend 250'000 bloodpoints at any time for an additional refresh. This can exceed the 2 refresh limit.
- Buying a perk from the shrine does not get replaced with a new perk. You must use a refresh.
- Every time a perk appears in the shrine, it's probability of appearing on subsequent rolls is reduced significantly for the next 5 rolls.
This means that using shards in the shrine to buy all of a DLC characters perks up to tier 3 is 12'000 shards. This is less than the cost of a full priced character, and encourages actually unlocking the character instead. The other benefits I trust are obvious.
Still lends itself to being something that helps out FTP players significantly, while also not making the monetary value of DLC trivial.
If it were me as a budget player trying to optimise value, I would consider getting the base game and the non licensed character bundles, level up those characters and then start fishing for other perks in the shrine. Since I can choose to hold on a page indefinitely, I can ensure I can get my perk, but the caveat is, the longer I wait I'm wasting refreshes on other perks I want.
Overall I feel this gives a good level of value to the shrine, while still having strong incentives to bypass it by just buying the DLC.
However outside of that what is your point?
A new player has to unlock characters and perks to use them? I mean thats the entire point of the prestige system isn't it? Or are we proposing scrapping that and giving all perks to all players? Premium content is what it is... it has to be premium in order to fund the licenses that allow them to be in the game… it kinda sucks it has to be that way, but it's that or nothing.
Even with Premium content though, you make it sound like without Decisive Strike or Off The Record the game is completely unplayable... which isn't true. I myself play the game regularly without exhaustion perks or second chance perks, and I have only 1100 hours in the game total… I'm still a newb, and yet I'm fine. I think you've been playing much longer than me, but when I started playing last year, Sprint Burst, We'll Make It, Prove Thyself/Deja Vu and Kindred is a pefectly viable starter player build, and is available from the base game... in fact is actually available just by playing Meg alone.
A new player is going up against low ranked killers, killers likely to be doing Adepts, killers not having all the killer perks themselves... Killers lacking Pain Res, Pop, Grim Embrace, Deadlock, Dead Man's Switch, Surge, Eruption.. the starter killer perks are often a lot worse than the the starter survivor ones... so I'm having trouble discerning your point...
What are you proposing exactly? Giving everyone Decisive Strike as a free perk?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707103#Comment_3707103
Great, what do new players do that don't have those perks? Spend a lot of money to get them?
You can get OTR within a couple of weeks farming for shards. Dead Hard is available immediately from the base game.
Regarding OP:
"All killers" are not hard tunneling a player immediately out of the game and ignoring everything else. I see it happen maybe 3/5 games on the most unlucky days (Ive experiencd this 3 times in 12 months), and 1 in 10 most days. Claims tunnelling is in every game is an inflammatory and frustrating exaggeration, to the point saying it makes it hard to take any other point made seriously.
Does tunneling need addressing? Maybe. Disabling Pain Res to stop working once a player dies would be a change worth considering to combat tunneling.
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As with things like crosshairs, monitors where you modify the brightness and contrast to effectively nullify darkness effects, or using accessibility features you don't need to give yourself a greater advantage... these are broadly speaking things I would consider at least unsporting if not cheating, but they can't really be guarded against or enforced.
I'm a purist when it comes to games, and to me using 3rd party software, hardware or accessibility features to bypass balacing factors in the game goes against the spirit of the game and is something I would frown upon.
When it comes to Equalisers, like all the examples above… no one can stop you... But you're kinda lame for doing it.
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My BPSs are always gone in a few minutes and take hours tk get back 😒
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Yikes... tried playing today and it was insanely bad.
Something is definitely up with packet loss. Not seeing any FPS issues on PS5, but the networking code is definitely having a rough time. I didn't have any issues with Nemsis yesterday, but playing with Artist today was dire... I could barely even walk in straight line.
Hopefully that is fixed soon.
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@radiantHero23 said:
GUYS!!! They fixed something with Mandy!!!
Please take a look at the body piece of the Amandas rebirth outfit. I heavily disliked the outfit before because the robe kind of clinged to her legs if you know what i mean. This made the robe look all wrong to me. But somehow they fixed the physics and now the robe works like, well, a normal robe!
If only the breatrap in her hand would return now…
Engine fix? 😅
Gotta check this out.
EDIT: You're right, it isn't sticking to her thighs anymore, kinda flysheet around in the wind 😅
Is kinda fluttery now... 🤣
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@Tyler3 said:
Once The Pig uses up all of her traps, she pretty much loses any pressure she had on the trial. Well what if she had unlimited, or even just a few more traps, that would spawn in her inventory one at a time, every 180 seconds, or more? I feel like this could be a really good buff for her, allowing her to delay generator progress much more efficiently and keep consistent, but not constant, pressure on the trial. What do you think about this?
As a Pig enjoyer, I can say that while slapping Pig traps on heads is fun (especially when you shuffle people out from under pallets), Pig is VEEERY carefully balanced around her traps. Despite having lacklustre abilities elsewhere, her traps are the single best slowdown mechanic in the game, so granting them back is a really big deal.
You can take add-ons that increase (or even lower) your headtrap count and these both have very significant impact on the game. Having more traps requires you to sacrifice an add-on slot, and Amanda's biggest problem is usually getting the traps out with those add-ons because she isn't taking the add-ons to help her weaker chase. If you give her back traps after time, she can just take chase add-ons freely and avoid the downside.
So while it's good to see a fellow Pig enjoyer, I'd have to say this change would not be good for the health of tne character.
If you want a more lore accurate reason… there are 4 survivors, 4 tests that must be given... remember... "there are rules"... 🤘🐽🤘
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@Vorahk08 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706227#Comment_3706227
Yeah, that's what I was trying to determine by asking. I've seen some mobile games in the past give a set amount of a randomly chosen currency, so people could get different results. However, it looks like everyone's just getting a set gift. Which is a shame.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706308#Comment_3706308
Yeah. We don't need a couple thousand free BP every week. We could just get that with less than an hour of playing killer. I was hoping this would be one way they would help with the Iri shard grind.
If the free gift is going to stay BP, then the shop "Gift" is a major disappointment and a pointless addition just to keep players opening the store each week. Which is pointless, because the Shrine used to do that, until they moved it.
To be fair, free BP every week is good for new players to catch up/get going.
Also just because the first one is BP doesn't mean it will always be BP. If it was gonna be BP only, the ambiguous use of "gift" is suspect. Would have been better to call it "the blood well" or something.
So worth getting some details first I feel before I'd start to rag on it myself.
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Personally I still get a lot of tension repairing gens.Those moments where: -
- At the start of the game where you see everyone on gens and hear no TR, and you start nervously looking around trying to see if a Ghost Face or Myers is staring at you.
- Those 4 O'clock skillchecks you're just not quite alert/ready for, and you barely hit with a frame to spare.
- Those moments where you see or hear the killer wander by, watch out for them intently, and its that precise moment where a skillcheck just happens to ping.
Ofc I play on PS5 at 60 FPS, which is good, but skillchecks are not all that easy/forgiving... so I still get a lot of satisfaction hitting greats.
So of you're bored of all that, seems your life with the game has come to its natural conclusion. Hope you had fun while it lasted!
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I feel like banners would be the solution to this problem.
Getting different banners for that character at certain milestones, up to an iri rank banner at p100, would be a nice way to show your dedication to a character, but is only a banner.
Course I see majority of things people complain about as FOMO as people being rather entitled. Rarely have I seen a claim I actually agreed was a fair criticism, so maybe I'm not qualified to speak on the matter.... however since some people will still complain about FOMO anyway and there is evdiently no right answer, give the banners the same design just with different boarders, and at least there would be the response "it's just a banner, deal with it".
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706465#Comment_3706465
The issue is when it happens in this situation not only did you not get to interrupt the unhook, because it auto aimed you on the hooked survivor, it also made it so you gave them an extra portion of a self unhook, in combination with unhook meter not stopping when a survivor is around the other survivor does not even need to unhook anymore, and suffer the loss of a health state, best case scenario is the guy can now just unhook themselves... Auto aim is bad enough as it is, no reason to further punish the killer by giving him a disadvantage for this happening. The survivor on hook already gets an advantage because his meter fills up... Why would you get mad about the killer basically helping you out?
Erm... why does it matter if you filled part of the unhook meter, after you failed to interrupt the unhook attempt due to auto aim? The survivor is getting unhooked… so what difference does it make?
I've also said that charging the unhook meter while a survivor is nearby definitely shouldn't be a thing, and explained in detail why... so I don't know why you bring that up... it wouldn't be a factor and is irrelevant...
There is maybe some comically unlikely scenario where the Killer has camped to fill a hook to say 75% (which is already rare), a survivor goes for the unhook, the killer swings and gets autoaimed to the hook, the survivor panics and cancels the unhook attempt, and now the unhook meter is filled so the hooked survivor unhooks themselves... but we're talking about a scenario that would be so rare, you can chalk it up "bad luck"... and tbh if all of that happens, there is credence to saying there was a reasonable amount of camping or greifing to warrant it anyway...
I'm not overly passionate about the idea, but it's not a bad idea, and this super specific highly unlikely scenario is not really good cause to shoot it down...
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@DrHyk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706465#Comment_3706465
Are you one of the devs?
No, I just read a lot of the talking points around this game, and this was a major hurdle for the devs to overcome in the release of the AFC system, which was communicated in their decisions to not originally release it, and in their notes regarding how the AFC will work.
@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706465#Comment_3706465
while i do think its bm when a killer is hitting a hooked survivor multiple times could we also lower the freaking scream some survivor do when hooked? its so loud it hurts. i started to hit them cause that cancels the scream but i didnt wanted to be seen as a bully so i actually made myself a mute shortcut so i just mute the game for a hook
This is fair, I've heard this point a lot, although as a PS5 player I've never experienced it myself. The screams have never been too loud for me, but if it is causing problems for certain players that does need fixing.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/411904/2-anti-camp-system-changes
Sometimes you get auto aimed into hooking the survivor... So I don't think that is necessary...
For the second thing, that is just a survivor error making it so the unhook meter fills would be equal to punishing the killer for survivor missplay, therefore no to both of these.
Hmmm… I'm not sure auto aim hits happen enough that it would be a problem. Most of the time when it happens is when a survivor is trying to unhook anyway… and this WOULD be a pretty decent mechanism to at least discourage hitting a survivor on hook. Realistically I don't think it'd make a difference, you'll still probably not get the unhook becuase of this… but what it would do, is psychologically make a survivor less upset about being hit on hook… it would make a purely negative thing a potetnially good thing… which would be a positive for the experience.
@DrHyk - For the second part, there is a good reason why this mechanism exists, and was a major factor in the design on the AFC. Just so you are aware, the reason this happens is this is not the first time BHVR have tried to make a system like this. In previous iterations of the AFC, good survivors would abuse the mechanic and deliberately/constantly run towards the hook and force the killer to have to run by the hook to chase them and build up the anti-camp mechanism or drop chase to avoid building the anti camp system.
You can basically put the killer in a catch 22, where they need to go under hook to chase you, but they can't chase you without building the AFC, and if the killer takes too long downing the other survivor, then the hooked survivor gets a free unhook… the killer is punished for not camping…
So I'm afraid thats a no my guy, that pause when other survivors are running under it is a very important mechanic that can't be removed.
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Finding it pretty cool overall, the collections pages are really good, I love the artwork of each one.
It's taking a little getting used to, but after a couple of minutes everything is pretty simple to find.
The Moris for killer pages are excellent... I do hope that means you're planning a Mori pass, and maybe DLC Moris… 😏
Literally the ONLY quibble (and it's really trivial), in the old store it was possible to resetbavck to your original equipped cosmetic to try other combos easily by either switching between tabs or back out and back in. Now whatever you set is cached.
It's very trivial, I can just reset everything by hand... but a "clear" or "reset" button to take cosmetics back to your currently equipped cosmetics would be a little smoother and slick.
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Question: Will the Ultimate Weapon locker change have a 15s area of effect tied to the locker?
Can I basically use a locker to set a trap to make anyone who comes in 32m of it scream?
If so, that might actually be a pretty awesome concept as a trap perk if the timer is longer to patrol the gates at end game... might be a problem for camping a hook though.
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Decisive Strike and Adrenaline is still good. No need to be melodramatic.
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My first ever game was as Pig... I have the trophy video still.
https://youtu.be/iq9EBb_3_bY?si=eMHudWOGDSyrtRIII've never seen this happen ever again... 😅
1 hook and a head pop kill... Fear me, for I am dangerous...
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Max's Overdrive Chainsaw vs. Kazan's Demonic Kanabō?
They're both physical powerhouses though Oni edges that out slightly... but even if his weapon is a very heavy wood, I still reckon a bit of saw action wins out in that exchange... (clean mind pls).
Ofc the other advantage of a chainsaw is you don't have to hit your opponent hard... you just have to touch them, and Max can put the foot down right from the word Go, while Kazan has a slow start....
I think in a long drawn out bloody fight, Kazan wins it, but Max can take it it if he is able to end it early....
Rip and tear til it's done Billy! 🤘😁🤘
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Seems to me to be a Locker based Nowhere to Hide in the new version, that doesn't depend on a non-regressing/unblocked gen to work.
The PTB extended its cooldown though, if this version was brought back down to 60s, it'd be in a pretty good place overall I feel.
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It is shocking how many bad turrets there are.
One thing that I think really hurts Xeno too is the fact in crawler mode their camera is so low down. Whenever I play them, I actually have a hard time following survivors and get discombobulated often because I can't see them over loops and low walls... 🤔
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@CrowVortex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705577#Comment_3705577
While that's good to hear, i still think the initial GB size of DBD is an issue.
Your own image tells the story... given it's a live service game with the number of DLCs, it's size is actually impressively small and efficient at 64GB.
It hasn't been uncommon for the past 5 years for games to sit in the 100GB range at base, and as games get more and more ambitious, that number only keeps going up and up.
If you asked me to guess DBDs size in isolation, I'd have been guessing at the 90Gb mark, so 64Gb is pretty darned good in my book... and as the old saying goes "It's exactly as big as it needs to be".
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IMO exhaustion perks are necessary fill in for map knowledge and dead zones.
The more I've played DBD the more I've come to realise how little I know... Realistically I've probably reached mechanically how good I can get, and now the only thing to see any substantial improvements is in mind games, deciphering perks and most importantly tile/map knowledge. Map and tile knowledge seems to be the deciding factor at the highest levels of play, where the only times survivors get hit is when they get caught in a dead zone, or the killer giga brains them. This is exemplified by the popularity and strength of WoO.
Exhaustion perks (I don't use them anymore cause I'm really trying to get better without them), allow you significantly make up for the deficiencies of the map, and by proxy the deficiencies in your map/tile knowledge...
I genuinely believe that the crux of high level play is having God tier map and tile knowledge to severely limit the possibility of getting caught in a dead zone... and for those of us without God tier map knowledge... exhaustion perks bridge that gap for at least 1 mistake.
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The AFC makes hook trades easier, and allows much more room for the survivors to get way more reliable value out of perks like Desperate Measures, Reassurance, Deliverance, Camaradarie and Dead Hard, and ensure a much greater liklihood to get value out of their anti tunnel perks as like Off The Record, Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time, as opposed to being downed under hook and then tunneling down the unhooked player.
You can even bring something like Overcome to help you with trades too.
When compared to being able to sit right under the hook and making it very hard to basically impossible to use any of these perks, the AFC is creating sufficient windows for counterplay and doing its intended purpose very well.
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Very well written, a fantastic read, thanks for taking the effort to post all this.
I'd love to respond to everything with the same level of detail and care, but holy moly, I consume enough time writing out my own crappy posts xD
So respond to your quick points: -
- I believe a casual queue and a competitive queue is very worth serious consideration. In the past splitting the queues was a big concern due yo a relative low (if loyal) player base. Now the game consistently hits 30'000 players averages each month (and that's just Steam), which should be more than enough for multiple queues. The My Little Oni and Lights Out queues proved DBD is not lacking players. If it were me, I'd go the community cup route, and make ranked matches a 5 vs 5 queue with the same maps and killers to choose from.
- I would however be very wary of enforced build structures. Lots of games do this eventually, and it always causes more problems than it solves. It's basically making the devs define the meta and limit player options, instead of the meta being organic, and trying to enforce metas has been disastrous for a number of games (Overwatch being a classic example). Not to say it can't be done, but you do have to be quite careful.
- This is absolutely fair, ofc the sheer scale of the game now makes it more and more Herculean a task to keep everything accounted for, but things like map reworks and character reworks should largely be a nearly right first time thing. Longer and more iterative PTBs would help... though thisbfeds in my next point.
- As someone who is familiar with the gaming industry and software test engineering, the real issue with this is the growth in sheer scope of games over the past 25 years has made testing in the industry an absolute nightmare. There is so much money involved in games and game development now that the need to keep turning a profit on a hit game is truly ridiculous, and I dare say mind blowing... and this means content is constantly in demand, with insane and unbudging deadlines... Though I do work in the gaming industry... it is not as a test engineer for a game developer... because Thank Christ... I rather like having my hair, and preferably not monochromatic in colour. As a test engineer myself I would always say more testing is good, you should always hire more test engineers 😏... but in the same breath, I can't say I'm surprised at the number of issues that pop out given the sheer content scope of this game, and its a common issue across the whole industry. 😱
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@Barin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705185#Comment_3705185
I did not mean Survivors have a 30-second timer on the hook before they die that's hilariously bad and not my intention in the slightest. My suggestion was to reduce the Micro Sleep timer for unhooked survivors and not punish the teleport ability cooldown like it is currently. The unhooked survivor can still wake up by failed skill checks or the wake up interaction by the unhooker.
That's much better, thanks for that correction xD
Read the original and nearly spat me tea xD
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@_Onyx_ said:
"[BUFF] Hooked Survivors are now on a 15-second timer (was 60 seconds)"
Does this mean you want Survivors to have 30 seconds on a hook before they are sacrificed?
That's what I read, the rest is fair enough, flavour of how you'd want a Freddy rework to go… but this change is nuts… definitely wanna scrap that my guy…
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703725#Comment_3703725
I doubt it’ll be oppressive with how survivors might just avoid the penalty by failing skill checks
@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703726#Comment_3703726
Good point. 40% might be better, but also it can make Forever Freddy come back and no one wants that, I think. 30% could be a good middle ground.
I always hated the idea of this mechanic. It's RNG dependent, very heavily swings the power's effectiveness based on the survivor perks in play and actually rewards players for missing a skillcheck. I've legit missed skillchecks against Freddy and gone "Oh yeah… that wakes me up".
The counter to Freddy back in the day was to use Self-Care to heal after throwing pallets or taking a hit at gens and spam SCs trying to miss one instantly and wake up. This was made possible by the fact Self Care was meta back then and extremely common, and the difference between bullying Freddy and getting smashed by Freddy was knowledge of this weakness (he was as basic an m1 killer as can be otherwise).
Now Self Care and healing in general is much harder to pull off, Old Freddy would be inherently stronger… Old Freddy is far more interesting a concept, but I feel the gameplay elements of flat gen speed slow down and the constant hopping in and out of the dream via skillchecks should be diminished somewhat, and some of his more active elements should stay/be added to.
I feel some blend between old Freddy and new is a better way to go. I'd rather like the OPs version if skillcheck wake up was removed entirely, and some other wake up mechanic was used. The clocks are functionally OK, but thematically very poor. I'd prefer something like burning your hand on a hot plate, or injecting yourself with an adrenaline vial at dream crossoever points or something, then keep the hooks wake you up in place of skillchecks.
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Freddy should be the priority.
Myers and Trapper may be weak, but they are fun to play at least. Freddy feels decidedly meh to play.
The biggest issue with the revert is that ofc DBD got review bombed back in the day to change him, and even tjough it was a skill issue, it would be a hard sell to BHVR to see old Freddy come back...
I expect the dream yoinking would be on the cards, but I doubt the slowdown will come back... at least how it was originally.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704544#Comment_3704544
"Invocations will forever be a doomed concept in their current form of balancing around time. Using the number of people working on the invocation as its limiting factor makes them basically impossible to balance."
Wouldn't say that as we currently only have weaving spiders. If/when more invocations come out and depending what they do, having a build stacking them it could be a game changer. Currently, our only gripe with the current weaving is we feel the 120 second is way to long, but 90 would be more of a sweeter spot especially if/when they make more.
Your stated goal is to remove time as a balancing factor but that seems…odd? [We probably are misunderstanding something] Balance around the time it takes to finish? It seems more your trying to balance around making it something solos would be running too, which is all well and good, but time is something you need to balance around for strong effects. 48 for a strong effect doesn't seem like a ok idea, especially since time is also a valued resource to the killers. [Looking at your edited weaving spiders: 48 seconds for up to 80% of permanent gen progress should everyone have and bring the perk at lvl 3 and doing the bare minimum participation (not in the version edited but taking into consideration of: "There is the issue players can turn up as the invocation finishes to get the rewards, which may need to enforce some kind of minimum participation rule.") with each survivor individually choosing which specific gen 20% goes on. And no drawback baring the 48 seconds of sitting.]
That said we also don't like the fact that it requires the survivors to do things after the invocation, but this is all just our opinions anyways.
Ah cheers, you caught an error, I should have updated the template as well to 60s. Corrected that now.
I was thinking about a minimum participation requirement. Like you have to be in the invocation for your invocation to count, and this is indicated by the usual red charge in the perk icon. Maybe 20-30s or so?
I've added this to OP, and reworded some stuff to make it more clear:
- Each survivor must sit at the circle for 20s to gain the related primary effects of their perks and the related bonus effects of the invoked perk. When the invocation is completed these rewards are granted.
Time is something you need to balance around for strong effects.
This is effectively my point yes. If you balance around time based on the number of participants, then you will forever dance with this problem that an organised 4man SWF can shorten that time to where the perk becomes problematically strong (and therefore requires a harsh penalty to offset it), and anything outside of a 4man SWF, the time investment and perk penalty is too harsh to even consider running.
Even with 90s, this would still be a 4man SWF perk and nothing more. It's very design is that of teamwork scaling, either the whole team commits to the invocation, or the whole team doesn't… which is antithetical to a perk you take on 1 person. For Invocation perks to gain any traction, they can't be limited to SWFs, to my mind you MUST get the time scaling per person off the perk, it's the most vital change to the life of the perk type, however you do it.
That said, getting the impression this thread is basically dead, so I'll probably leave it now. Though I will be surprised if we see more invocation perks. The current template is just way too hard to balance; it is only viable for 4man teams who are specifically going for it, so the perk will never be even remotely popular, so the incentive to pour dev time into more of them will be drastically reduced.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704625#Comment_3704625
You mentioned, that Fire Giant was a pain without Torrent. I honestly didnt even know that I was even able to use Torrent during that fight. I love to do Alexanders quest and always summon him to aid me. Feels right to me. This however seems to negate the ability to use Torrent, so I never used the good steed for the fight. Its not that hard though from my experience. Try to fry the big man with ancient dragons lightning strike.
I find the rocks in the area to be more of a challenge to deal with…
Really!? Hah, that's amusing. Yeah the terrain is what makes it a pain, and Torrent lifts you up higher so significantly less frustrating, and ofc you can clear away whenever he blows up the floor.
... Lighting would have been very handy indeed 😭
Also Alexander. 😢 Absolute legend. I was surprised I could break him free with my pyromancies... glad I didn't have to leave him stuck, though I couldn't get to him at Volcano Manor... There was a big 100% fireproof lizard in my way... what I didn't know is his ledge in Faram Azula has a Dragon on it if Alexander isn't there... man killed a damn dragon to be there 😅
Though the end of Millicents questline is always my where my stoney heart cracks though... 😓
The only time I've ever managed to bring myself to betray her was when I was doing my Millicent run, and I REALLY needed her prosthetic hand for build. I could justify it on the grounds that... I was Millicent... so technically I couldn't betray her 😅
10 measily lines of dialogue and the NPCs in these games somehow manage to really upset me 😔
- Siegmeyer of Catarina
- Quelana
- Solaire
- Eileen the Crow
- Adrianna
- Sirrus of the Sunless Realms
- Siegward of Catarina
- Millicent
- Rya
- Alexander
- Blaidd and Iji
The list is endless 😓😓😓
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704560#Comment_3704560
Great to read this morning with my coffee. Glad to see you get back into it and have some fun finishing your run. No torrent…that had to be rough, like masochist-level pain for sure. I might have overlooked it in the passages, but did you have a favorite area/boss when you were doing this? Poor Gideon 😂
Hehehe cheers muchly!
Hmm... area wise I had a lot of fun in the caves of the Moghwyn Dynasty, which was an antithesis of the area just before it. I was able to blow everything up with Giants Flame Take Thee... and 10 msn kills in 1 shot is always a good time... and the Sanguine Nobles got destroyed like Gideon xD
Raya Lucaria internals and rooftops was quite a lot fun surprisingly. I got to go for some pretty nutty long range fireballs, and it was nice to pay back all the mages for all the pain of previous runs with some long range pyromancy of my own 😈
Boss fights, the Tree Sentinels and the Tree Spirits tended to get blown up... not good against fire it seems.... all Kindred Gargoyles were a pain, but usually if you run hard and roll like a lightning Ram while they have their swords out, and only attack against axes is usually fine 😁
Malenia was ofc a highlight, but then again, I consider her the best fight in all Soulsborne games, so there is bias there. Though the fact Whirl O'Flame was unironically useful still blows my mind xD
I actually did very well against Morgott this time, who is usually an major Achilles Heel for me in every run. First time I probably enjoyed that fight. 🤔
Otherwise Radagon and Elden Beast was fun. Throwing spells at Radagon was quite intense, as he can parry them, so you need to bait attacks from him and be ready to hurl a Giants Flame, and getting a window to run up and throw a max charged Burn O'Flame to roast Elden Beasts untanned regions was always cathartic. They were probably lying my highlights xD
But yeah, no Torrent run is a rough time... I know mostly where I'm going in Elden Ring, but you'll be surprised how much you miss/forget when you can't look around with Torrent 😅
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704544#Comment_3704544
weaving spiders saves time. It just doesn't save enough time to justify using it. at the same time, you can't just buff the perk to be like -30 charges. I was proposing a skill-component to the perk where you need to survive X amount of minutes to gain perk value.
Gonna be honest, I actually misread your original post. I thought you were suggesting procs for every 120s you stay on the circle, I didn't realise you meant proc it, and from that point on the gens get 10 progress every 120s.
So that now makes a little more sense... so a lot of my prior criticism is invalid.
This does seem pretty unhealthy though, just take Iron Will and Distortion, then spend the whole game hiding while the gens do themselves. Eventually all gens will be done in a maximum of 32 minutes with no way for the killer to stop it. I don't think that playstyle needs to be encouraged. Even if it was balanced, it'd be as fun as watching paint dry.
I did change my original suggestion, though I think we're still gonna disagree. The story of getting a strong item to use to help break central gens, especially when you have the early game gen regression killer meta seems like a better route to me, and as stated before the killer gets an audible warning regarding a completed invication and can see the Ethereal toolboxes, they can continually harass the survivor with it to counter play it. This seems far more interactive to me than encouraging a hard stealth strat, where a survivors literally can just hide and never take any risks to show themselves as the gens progress themselves.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692504#Comment_3692504
That's what I really enjoy about elden ring. The game is as hard as you want it to be.
In my first playthrough, I went all Dex with the halo sythe and failed at some bosses.
ER was my first souls game, so I was pretty bad.
Kater I used mimic tear extensively, which made bosses noticeably weaker. This did not mean, that I didn't leant though. I got better and better and beat late game bosses without it.
Maliketh, Placidusax and especially Godfrey are some of my favorites.
Now that better, I just want to max out everything to get 100%.
I also want a "can do everything" - character. So I'm around Lvl 260 right now and try to max intelligence.
Fire giant is down, now comes farum azula.
Looking really forward to it.
Are you guys also excited for Shadow of the erdtree?
Finally finished this run!
Sharpened my skills up again for Shadow of the Erdtree, not quite so afraid of it now 😅
Not that you aksed, but kinda riding a high and want to share... Notable moments: -
- Not using Torrent was mostly not too bad... but was really ass at times... looking at you Fire Giant and Consecrated Snow Field... lets get that out of the way that these suck without Torrent... 😑
- Starting spell Flame Sling (ER Fireball) was good enough, was nice for throwing from safety. Requires you to lock on, then unlock and aim up a lot to account for the arc, but you get used to it and it does its job well to counter hit attacks after rolling away to safety... Dropped off by end game, but was great while it lasted.
- Catch Flame (the ER Combustion) is Godlike for a Quelana run... this spell was my bread and butter for so long, and still came up now and again at end game for quick rapid fire damage. Also helped me a lot as a blue phantom.
- O' Flame (ER Greater Combustion) would be excellent... except it has this annoying problem where if you use it immediately after a roll, it will fire in the direction of the roll instead of at your opponent... making it usually useless and you're better off using Catch Flame... the only time it became useful is when your enemy has a HUGE recovery window.
- Whirl O' Flame (ER Fire Whip) was useless... too much FP, too slow and not enough damage. Almost always a better option available to you instead.
- Some combination of the above was mostly smooth sailing for anything you'd encounter. Flame Sling for poking at range (Margit, Godrick), Catch Flame for going in when you wanna just starting blasting (Rennala and Radahn).
- Carian Manor was much easier... the hands weakness to fire made that much less painful...
- The Godskins have pretty gnarly fire resistance... they were quite hard. Though strangely the big boy was easier because he couldn't dodge Flame Slings, so I could poke him down from.relatibe safety, the Noble was much harder, I had to be O'Flaming when he went for hisnfireballs to egt onaiatent DPS. The Godskin duo later was quite obnoxious, but thankfully we were getting pretty good with our damage output by that point.
- Volcano Manor was fun... Rykard was impossible pretty quick I figured out; mathematically impossible to kill... and I couldn't believe how many fire proof enemies there were around the manor... the Fire Slugs I understand... but the lizards, the iron maiden sentinel things, and even the bats in Volcano Manor all took 0 damage... a lot of running in these areas xD
- Giants Flame Take Thee (ER Greater Fireball) was a real game changer... knockdown on man sized enemies is busted... I literally stun locked Gideon and babombed him to death 🤣🤣🤣
- The Fire Giant was miserable (I really questioned my no Torrent rule)... his first phase was actually fine, I could do a lot of damage to his foot.... but with that weakness gone, his second phase was dire... he has such good fire resistance obv, that it was an insane slow burn taking his health down, and a lot of his hits could 1 shot me if I wasn't careful. (A cloth armour set offers littlemprotwction). My eventual strategy was to have like 3 heals with the rest FP estus, save my fire boosted physick and use the ritual attack and defence to try and maintain the full HP boosts. Basically dont' get hit and if I ddo, hopefully heal back to full and keep the most damage output to whittle him down.
- Burn O'Flame (ER Fire Tempest) was actually pretty damn good against large enemies. Placidusax, Fortissax, etc it did great damage quickly.
- Maliketh still has that weird attack where he stands still, leans back with a big swing, then just swings down and misses you... I kept getting it so Catch Flame minced him.
- Mohg was another enemy with monstrous Fire Resistance (80% reduced damage)... I could technically kill him, but I need like 2 health estus and 12 FP estus... every missed/not fully charged shot was very costly. You could get about 50% extra damage on a headshot, but that was so hard to free aim it was not a viable strategy.... especially in phase 2 where he is diving around splashing blood everywhere... couldn't use the Ritual Talismens strat because of teh random blood flame crap he leaves in the environment... I had to use my Latenna Spirit in the end to beat him just to have some other source of damage 😖
- Malenia was a GOATED fight as always, she dodges projectiles so Flame Sling and Giants Flame Take Thee was off limits, but Catch Flame and selective O'Flame could counter her and do work. Would you believe Whirl O'Flame was actually useful here? Because she dodges and advances as you throw projectiles, you can't use other projectiles, but with you can Whirl O'Flame and she dodges it like a projectile, but because it hangs in the air it hits her as she advances... when you're fishing for Water Fowl, this move made it safe to keep chipping away at her until she threw it. I LoL'd when I realised this crap spell was my saviour vs. MALENIA of all bosses xD
- Godfrey/Horaoh Loux was probably my most fun battle with him of all my meme characters. We had great damage, but he's fast with his attacks, but also punishes rolling away, I actually had to grow a pair and just stand and throw Giants Flames with him at point blank. Veet intense and fun... Louxs grabs could near 1 shot me each time 😵
- Radagon and Elden Beast we're not as bad as I thought. I feared my damage would be bad as I know Elden Beast has high resistances and between them that's a lot of health. My fears dissipated quickly when I realised I was able to get 2k a hit on Radagon with Giants Flame... and Burn O' Flame was great against Elden Beasts fat rear end too!
You talking about ER got me back to finish this run... so thanking you Radiant... was a lot for fun. Also up yours Mohg... you creep. 😒
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704456#Comment_3704456
the goal is not there to make the perk always best option where it is instant selection. My goal is here to make the perk situational strong. The current iteration is not appealing in any situation in isolation.
When it comes to your suggestion, it has 1 glaring flaw... the perk is still trash. There is no reason to run it. Whether its 120s 1 time or 8 times, it's still 120s for each proc. It's a complete waste of time and a throw of the game.
If you think the perk is that bad, I could consider buffing to every 90 seconds. I went a bit cautious with the perk. In just 180 seconds, every gen goes from 90 second to 60 seconds. i don't think it is throwing the game. it is taking risk in early game to reap end game rewards.
My suggestion isn't exactly a high reward... survivors can get 70s of BNP on a gen for spending approximately 70s in basement, 80s if it is switched to a 60s invocation.
i think it defeats purpose of invocation. you might as well just use Deja vu+Overzealous or Resilience. 15% repair speed saves 13.5 seconds. I am just saying that having burst progression that happens every match makes killer have no semblance of generator control. My version of the perk also removes gen-control from the killer, like it punishes 3 gen but this happens over time.
That fair, I can agree with the tenet of making the perk situatuonal. Now I look back st it, my version does have the potential to become meta... so cheers for catching me on that.
May as well respond to both of you though as I have the same point:
@Rulebreaker said:
For the template:
- 48 is defiantly to short. We say 90 minimum. A gens worth of time to do something with good reward.
- ok
- In our opinion other survivors should be able to help proc it by reducing the time. It also adds more risk if the killer comes and has 4 ducklings in the basement.
- We don't know how many charges are lost currently (and cant seem to find it) so probably ok? For thematic purposes the bar should drop fast since its, ya know, a ritual.
- While its ok for an invocation to have some effect like so we don't think it needs to be the standardized effect if you get what we're saying.
- same as the bullet above.
- and again
- Not sure if this should be permanently burnt, but could add a new item for survivors to allow them to use an invocation again if so.
Invocations will forever be a doomed concept in their current form of balancing around time. Using the number of people working on the invocation as its limiting factor makes them basically impossible to balance.
For the 70s gen progress Invocation saves compared to the same time that could be spent working on gens without multiple perk users:
- 120s is inexcusably long for 1 person.
- 80s is inexcusably long for 2 people.
- 60s is hard to justify for 3 people.
- 48s is never gonna happen.
With multiple perk users:
- 120s is inexcusably long for 1 person.
- 60s is still hard to justify for 2 people.
- 40s is started to get reasonable for 3 people.
- 30s is never gonna happen without some serious SWF shenanigans.
Basically Invocations are only even remotely viable for SWFs, and even then it's questionable, and that's without it even considering the perma broken downside. Making a petk that is only even worth considering using if you're in an organised 4 man SWF is pretty miserable. Invocations need to be somewhat self sufficient to be viable.
The primary goal of my template is therefore to remove time as the balancing factor... if you do that however you need a reason for other people to get involved in the invocation.
My solution to this is give Invocations a set time, and the focus of balance shifts directly to the strength of the effect that is triggered upon completing the invocation, and its related bonus for taking part in the invocation.
There is the issue players can turn up as the invocation finishes to get the rewards, which may need to enforce some kind of minimum participation rule.
However this is the crux of my point. Time is too valuable a resource, and should not be the balancing factor. Invocations will always walk a line of being too strong with a short time for SWFs, thus requiring harsh penalties to balance,(e.g. the perma broken effect), and those harsh penalties will make Invocations completely unusable in conjunction with the long times for solo.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
You don't really see BT all that much anymore. It's great that it's not necessary, but what if we buffed it a little?
What if, as well as applying its effects to people you unhook, you'd get the effects when you were unhooked as well? It'd give you some protection while still mainly being an altruistic perk.
What do you think?
I've thought of suggesting exactly this a few times, and the one glaring flaw is this combined with Deliverance in end game would basically a free team escape.
BT is actually underrated I feel. It's not expected, and is one of the few forms of safety that doesn't get disabled in End Game. It comes in surprisingly clutch.