Thusly_Boned
Thusly_Boned
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I think survs should always feel like surviving a match is is going to be a challenge coming in, but never like death is overwhelmingly likely, which is what it feels like when you are at higher MMR and see a Nurse/Blight.
We need fewer C/D tier killers, not more S tier killers.
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My take on this is that while basic surv gameplay can be fun as the player, it isn't particularly compelling viewing. Lots of downtime and passive activities (as opposed to killer gameplay, which is much more consistently frenetic/active), honestly really boring to watch.
In order to make your stream exciting, the easiest route is to adopt a "spicy" playstyle. Like forcing interactions with the killer even when unnecessary, finding ways to make them look silly, etc. Get used to playing that way, and it becomes second nature. And while not all surv streamers play this way, it seems like most of the really successful ones have at least a degree of "antagonistic to the killer" flavor and that absolutely influences aspiring surv streamers.
Now get four people accustomed to this into a group, and that gets compounded.
Again, this isn't all surv streamers/SWFs, and it isn't always malicious, but it is prevalent.
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@Anoniemoose said:
I've been wanting to discuss this for a while now ever since I came back from my hiatus that I had taken after the introduction of MMR and COH. It too seems like its now become a popular topic for people to come to over the past month or so. So I'll get right to my point and just ask...
Do you think that how the Nurse is designed currently is healthy for gameplay?
Do you think that how the Nurse is designed currently is adversely affecting perk balancing, map/loop design decisions and holding back weaker M1 killers or even killers in general from buffs/attention that would let them even come close to competing with the Nurse?
And why should I be playing any other killer then Nurse due to the way she is so differently designed to other killers?
Nurse is a vestige from a mechanically different time, and she can absolutely be oppressive, but she also has a high skill floor. There are a ton of awful Nurses out there.
I don't think she is a particularly healthy killer, but I don't lose any sleep over it.
As for why you should play any other killers; because you want to? Is "winning" the only thing that matters to you? If so, by all means, dedicate yourself to becoming a master Nurse. Speaking for myself, I like having fun, and my choices are made to that end. Brutal 4K wipes aren't fun for long, and I don't feel like pushing through that learning curve just to be able to make people miserable.
But question 3 is one only you can answer.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3038172#Comment_3038172
He's generally regarded as a wholesome and level headed high-profile player. While he is a Killer main, he tends to base most of his judgments on overall balance, and not strictly take sides in the us-vs-them debacle. If you are looking for absolutely no spice, some good gameplay, and some pretty objective opinions, he's good for that.
Personally, I think he's too soft on calling anything OP or garbage. He also likes to utilize niche perks which sounds fun, but may give you the wrong idea when trying them out for yourself. He's been playing non-stop for years. This game is his job. He can use perks which might seem really neat in his hands that feel impossible to get value from in yours.
Personally, I preferred Jott Scund, but he plays far less ever since Elden Ring came out.
Scott has been streaming/uploading a lot more recently, I think he got burned out on ER.
But the reason a lot of people weigh Otz's opinions more heavily is because he seems to be really clear headed, analytical and relatively non-biased, and not prone to throwing out searing hot insta-takes. As you say, he is also about the most wholesome DBD content creator out there and keeps his ego in check a lot more than many.
I like a lot of DBD content creators, but I often find their opinions to be rash and flawed. I think a lot of creators fall all over each other to get their opinions out there asap, and end up looking silly.
All that said, I don't take anyone's analysis as gospel, but if I had to trust only one, it would probably be Otz, or Scott.
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@shalo said:
Is it seriously the sparkling portraits? A reward so special that BHVR had to give an option to turn it off.
Seriously, it looks like some garbage filter a 12 year old would put on their FB profile pic.
Ultimately I am not terribly bothered by it, and I don't like to criticize over minor stuff, but I had no expectations at all and somehow I am still disappointed.
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Yeah, the reward doesn't justify the sacrifice, now that we've seen what the "reward" is.
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Overcharge is too strong and should be toned down a bit, but it isn't busted.
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@Zeidoktor said:
I tell such people "it's not camping if you give me no reason to leave"
This is absolutely true. You have to give the killer a reason to leave the hook.
If I hook someone someone and immediately see/hear other survs descending on the hook like vultures, why on earth would I leave? What possible motivation is there?
Should I just run away because reasons?
If a team all hang around the hook waiting for the killer to leave, and the killer doesn't, that's not camping. That's garbage survivor play, full stop.
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Finished maxing out (not prestiged, but perks) almost all killers and survs. Hoarded a ton of addons and offerings, and despite using one every single match, now have hundreds of flans.
Even though I stopped prestiging ages ago, I P3'd a handful of characters I had stopped at P2 on, on the chance the P3 reward was actually something worthwhile (seems that it isn't).
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I posted this in another thread, but some of my ideas:
Not all of these, but maybe a combination of some of the following:
Increase the rate condemned builds, make survs exposed while carrying a tape.
Make bloody fingernails basekit, teleport sound omnidirectional.
Cut tv "off" status by half, give her a speed boost (to movement and breaking actions) while demanifested.
Make her completely silent/invisible (no lullaby) while demanifested, decrease manifesting/demanifesting transition time.
Have all survs within (small, <10m) radius of a TV exposed for 5 secs when she TPs.
I think buffing condemnation in some way is a must, though. It's useless as is.
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You're not losing anything here, if this change never happened you wouldn't asking for your BP back, so not sure where the angst is coming from.
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@Seraphor said:
Victim of your own success. If the killer knows you're a good looper/difficult to catch, when they do, they're not just going to let you go.
You don't get to go free if you ran the killer for 5 gens and then got caught. You still got caught. If you wanted to go free, you wouldn't get caught.
I don't suppose you'd just let a killer hook you after he demonstrated their skill at downing your team mates quickly. You know, to reward the killers superior skill?
It's a little bit of apples and oranges, imo. I'd never let a surv run me for 5 gens (even if they could, I'd drop chase long before it got anywhere near that point), but if they were clearly the best player on their team and tried to carry and I got the other three, I'd be more likely to let them go.
As a killer, sparing one surv is a lot more palatable than dying when you're a surv.
That said, if I am a surv and I carried my team and they all get out because the the killer was so tilted that they ignored everyone but me, that's a win in my book.
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I almost never run Lightborne as flashlights are most often very easily counterable. But there are rare matches I wish I would have.
The other night I went against a last second flashlight switching swf with some kind of nuclear odd bulb loadout and I was getting blinded from impossible angles. Like they were totally outside my FOV and I had my face buried in a wall and I'm still instantly blinded. It was incredible.
I got 7 or 8 hooks, but they were barely trying to do gens, tried to always go down in open areas, and it was an insufferable slog.
Pretty rare to run into that, though.
Now as to the issue, since the game allows you to see the surv's items in the lobby, I assume that it is so the killer can arrange counterplay of some sort, so I think they should give the killer an additional 10 seconds beyond what the survs get to edit their loadout, or you may as well just not allow the killer to see their items at all.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
A certificate of lacking any form of social life.
My hour count is already indicative of that, but P100 would really be extra, that's for sure.
Game will probably be long derelict before anyone gets near P100ing all their characters.
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@jamally093 said:
Rescuing someone only for them to sandbag you
I rescued a Yun-Jin from basement and took a hit for them we were in killer shack I let her go ahead and I would use God pallet to stun the killer only for her to slam it in front of me. I would have just let her die on hook if I knew she did that.
Yeah, sandbaggers gonna sandbag.
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If you want a cynical take, the more likely one would be that they are massively shaking things up that are more easily tweaked to divert attention from the core design issues, which are a much taller order to address.
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NOED =/= free kills. I don't use it ever, but you still need to find and hit a surv. It makes that easier, sure, but it's not as if all the survs just drop when NOED procs. I've been a part of a multitude of 4Es where NOED was in play.
Being essentially invulnerable for over a minute in the EGC? Yeah, that's pretty much a free out. If the killer running NOED sucks, you still have a good chance of escape. If the surv with endurance sucks, you're screwed anyway.
I'm not losing any sleep over any of it, but saying NOED = New OTR in the endgame is a flat out false equivalency.
Also, saying that the slowdown meta hasn't been changed is not accurate, either. SH:PR hasn't been killed, but its synchronicity with DMS was a massive part of its appeal. I think it's a good nerf, but it is significant. And Ruin is essentially dead, and PGTW has been cut down a lot.
Sure, Overcharge will step in an fill the gaps created, but you can say the same of the surv perks that have been heavily nerfed.
How would I deal with the end game problem? Not sure. I don't like the perks flat out deactivating when the gates are powered, but also don't think survs should just be able to waltz through the gate with impunity. Deactivate all these effects within a certain radius of a powered gate maybe?
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027943#Comment_3027943
Could be a one off. I just have no empathy for people who fail to grasp why the DC penalty must stay.
The fail to grasp it because they are unwilling or unable to see anything beyond their own experience.
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I don't do it as a practice, but if you can get the match from a 4v1 to a 3v1 with at least 3 gens left, you've pretty much won the game.
Not much mystery here.
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@BadZilla said:
https://twitter.com/DeadByBHVR/status/1541510821439758339
It's not worth using anymore lol.
Haha, excellent.
But seriously, this will still be quite usable in the hands of players with the skill to utilize it, which is exactly as it always should have been.
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@Cameragosha said:
Please made sadako crawling 4.6 m/s
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SM3JJ5O6AKBJ/20220314-101851.gif
Yes, and have her launch from the TVs as if she were fired from a cannon
I would pay to see these things
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@Brimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3028233#Comment_3028233
In current dbd meta no chance in hell when it's just E key for distance and pre dropping. You have trouble even getting injures as her as legion can just ignore everything you have for 1 hit but has to go through a fatigue to get the next. Even as sadako the tv's are lackluster with a ######### 100 second cooldown for some reason.
Not saying she's good (she really needs some tweaks), but I can get kills way more consistently with Sadako than Legion, and a handful of other killers.
Very add on dependent, though.
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Personally I think they should just standardize the volume for survivor noises. They can keep their personality, but there's no reason for the variance on volume.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3022711#Comment_3022711
Offer: make the character 100% silent for the survivors player, but still let them be tracked by the killer. The 100% noise reduction caused a lot of griefe and frustation, but I also now that a lot of players get annoyed by the constant moaning and whining of their chosen survivor.
This makes the most sense for those who don't like the sound of their character. And yeah, some survs make really annoying sounds.
But for killers, some more than others, it's a lot more than just a QoL feature.
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I didn't play back then, but I've watched a lot and heard many accounts of how it was, and I think that going back is one of those things that some people think sounds great until they get it.
Nostalgia is a hell of drug.
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I see one or two most days.
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Legion isn't the worst, but still bottom five in my book. New changes have made them a bit more fun, but their core issues remain. You can stomp noobs with them, but good teams just won't allow you to chain hits consistently. Once they realize they are facing the legion, they split up and the match turns into a tedious mending slog. Just good enough to make the team work a bit, too weak to close the deal.
That said, Freddy, Trapper, Pig, and Clown are all worse imo.
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@Mazoobi said:
Definitely.
The only issue I have is when a disagreement or argument of any kind stirs and some of them start using the "I'm a minor" card to defend themselves... like ok?
Yeah, if you feel like you have to use an excuse for your bad behavior, then you know better and don't really have one.
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Solo queue at low-low/mid level is rough, but once you get past a certain point, it's largely not all that bad. Most players don't get to higher levels without having generally good game sense, and knowing what the correct plays are most of the time.
As you put more time in and get better and better, your odds of being matched with three potatoes drops accordingly. By the time you get to the high end, almost everyone is going to know what they're doing (most of the time).
That said, a good (or even just decent) SWF will always stand out.
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Once thing I've accepted is that as survivor like 90% of the time window hits are going to feel sketch as hell.
That said, as killer 90% of the time they look legit and clean. And I have great ping.
It seems like it's just a general latency issue.
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I hard disagree, but even if you don't find it fun, playing both sides will make you a lot better at the game.
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@Omputin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3026507#Comment_3026507
It’s gonna be better if you want all character perked out but significantly worse if you only want to unlock perks for handful of characters.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm not so sure about that. Even if you're just trying to fully perk a handful of characters, under the current system you'd still have to
- Level the character with the teachables you want to level 40
- Find the unlocked perks on the bloodweb of the character you are outfitting, which can vary from a short to a seemingly eternal process
Granted, if that character already has all the other perks, the new ones will show up on their bloodweb right away. But if you don't, and especially if you are starting from scratch, the new system is going to save you time. In the latter case, it's going to save you a TON of time.
In the new system, you'll have to go an 10 extra levels once, but that will apply those teachable to all of your characters instantly. It seems to me that those extra levels are going to be balanced out by all the levels you won't have to burn through trying to find them on the bloodweb. Even in s scenario where you have characters will all other perks already, the extra burden would be pretty negligible.
Again, this isn't a solution that is going to be optimal for everyone, and I don't know that there is a magic bullet here that would be. If you are already maxed out on most of your characters, or just the ones you want to use, it might even be barely noticeable. But for a new or newish player looking to outlift their characters with all the perks, this will be significantly easier.
I think it's a case of meeting the needs of the many, at the expense of the few.
Also, the new shrine of secrets may help as well for those looking for quick access to only certain perks, but we're not sure exactly what that is going to look like yet.
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Ah, this old discussion.
No. Not just no, but hell no.
The last thing we need are players having a free pass to bail on any game where things don't go just the way they'd like. People who do this suck out loud.
They might not be having their best time, but when you DC you're screwing four other people over. If you're not willing to play the game that loads, regardless of the variables, don't queue up.
I think the first DC penalty should be light, but for any subsequent ones on the same day, the penalties should actually escalate. Dramatically.
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Not all of these, but maybe a combination of some of the following:
Increase the rate condemned builds, make survs exposed while carrying a tape.
Make bloody fingernails basekit, teleport sound omnidirectional.
Cut tv "off" status by half, give her a speed boost (to movement and breaking actions) while demanifested.
Make her completely silent/invisible while demanifested, decrease manifesting time.
I think buffing condemnation in some way is a must, though. It's useless as is.
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If you are primarily concerned with getting your characters fully perked up, the grind is going to be waaaaay easier. And I may be wrong, I feel like more people fall into that group than those for whom the bloody cosmetics and charms are most important.
You're never going to please all the people, but I feel like this does a good job of addressing the major grind issues for most people.
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With the halving of regression speed and having it deactivate upon the first kill, removing the hex status is the only way it will be worthy of play. As it is now, it's dead.
But if they are trying to change the meta, that's probably the point. You're not going change usage by balancing the changes.
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The phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind.
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What he said was that it could be stronger in certain situations, but couldn't be sure until he can play test it, which seems to be a common sentiment.
If that proves to be the case, it'll almost certainly get tweaked. They're not going to unintentionally make it stronger and then just leave it.
Heck, I'd bet at least a third of these get tweaked before they go live.
Also, while I respect Otz for his consistently informed, analytical and level headed takes, what he says is not gospel. Lots of prominent content creators have really awful takes from time to time.
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Self care just went from awful to abysmal. Totally bizarre and unnecessary nerf, but honestly if no one ever runs it again, I'm fine with that.
As a surv I hated seeing teammates self care for five minutes while everyone else is dying.
If you miss it self healing, bring a medkit plus the new Botany Knowledge, because that is gonna be strong.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3017415#Comment_3017415
Showing the killer aura would only be bad for facecampers, so I really don't get why they shouldnt show the aura too.
Yeah, this would only hurt campers, which is fine, really.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
They could make it 500% and it'd still be useless.
If you have to run a perk on the assumption that all your teammates are going to die, it's a bad perk.
No question it's a bad perk, but in solo it's going to have some utility. Unless the gate spawns are absymal, you will just win the "which gate" back and forth games in the EGC.
Those jerks who like to immerse all game are going to love it.
That said, I'll still never run it.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/330145/upcoming-change-will-triple-the-grind
Yeah ... but the crunchy stuff, ie the perks, will only need P3, the rest is just vanity stuff. But the more important stuff is, that you don't lose any items on prestiging. Its just going ever forward and forward, and thats really, really good.
This. Speaking for myself, the perks are what I am really after, and these changes make getting them on all your characters MILES easier. In the old system, you'd have to level each new character to level 40 to just to make them available to others, then every other character for god knows how long, which being at the mercy of chance on the BW, often took AGES, and countless level 50 repeats.
Now you level each new character to P1, and you at least have the base level perks on all of you other survs/killers. No searching, just done. That's massive.
I have almost all of my characters maxed or nearly maxed, so I am not going to benefit as much from these changes as a new player, but for these new players, their experience getting to that point is going to be sooooo much less painful.
Charms and cosmetics are ancillary, add ons are nice but not necessary (mostly), but the perks are what is key to getting on equal footing with other players.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3021364#Comment_3021364
You're exaggerating.
I spent 600 hours maining killer, before I ever even tried survivor.
Now, about 1k hours in, with about 200 of that being survivor - it's not that bad.
Killer is definitely the more demanding role, but a lot of the frustrations arise when you bring a silly build or a killer you're learning and run into a monster squad.
Survivor is by far the most frustrating role, as a lot of how much you get to play depends entirely on how the killer wants to approach the game.
My first few DBD games were as surv, but the next 600~ hours were killer, and then my last 1300~ hours have been about 2/3 surv, so I've settled in at about 50/50 overall, and I feel like I have a pretty balanced perspective.
I agree that killer is by far the more demanding (and stressful) role, you have to be "always on", with zero downtime (unless you are a facecamper), and no teammates to take up any slack. It's all you, all the time.
Survivor is more frustrating insofar as you are not in full control of your fate, and there are certain situations where you are helpless (being facecamped by a Bubba, for example) but overall it's definitely a less stressful experience than killer.
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It sure seems like it has, but I think by how much is going to be unclear until the PTB, when people can playtest it, and do some comparisons. I think at absolute worst it might be a very slight nerf as described in the update.
I think they'll end up reducing the endurance to .5 or .75 seconds, which would make it a pretty heavy nerf, which it should be.
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@Mr_K said:
I think its a good change. Still useful for killers that need it.
For sure, it'll stay up for those who need it, deactivate for those who don't. A subtle but very effective change.
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Yeah, totally partisan folks (and you can definitely tell who those are in moments like this) are obnoxious, but also pretty much to be ignored, imo. Not to be a jerk, but if someone only plays half the game, I'm not really concerned with what they think about the state of the game.
You would definitely like everyone to be more balanced in their gameplay and rounded in their perspective, but you're always going to have those for whom survivor or killer becomes an identity thing, and they're just not going to ever get on board.
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It will have some utility in solo queue, I think. You won't get consistent value, but it will make escapes after the hatch is closed far easier to pull off.
The gen speed buff is totally superfluous, obviously.
But any value will be more than it has currently.
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Screw self care.
But this probably hurts killers more than survs, honestly. Self care already sucked, and is such an egregious time sink. Less people running it means survs are wasting less time.
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@Phasmamain said:
I’m more curious about how seeing the totem location is going to help when the killer is camping the totem next to the hooked survivor.
Should’ve just done bones I guess
How often does that happen, really? Possible, but I can't remember actually seeing it. Certainly not enough to account for it in design.
I am not a NOED user, but I think this fix is pretty nice, especially for solo queue. Solo survs will be much less likely to bail, and the odds of NOED staying up for more than 30-45 seconds are pretty slim, unless there are only 1-2 survs left.
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Flashlights are fine (weak, even). Just remove the ability macro them.