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Technature
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I would also like to see my skill and be confused why someone low ranked like myself (presumably) is matched against SWF sweat squads every day.
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"I am not saying they're being nerfed bc of a "few good survivors" like you keep straw manning."
@[Deleted User] said:
Where do I begin?
Lately BHVR you have been on steady decline, whether its the last two chapters you released that were low quality in release and in gameplay and mechanics. Or the constant random balance changes that almost no one asks for or a very small percentage of your player-base actually ask for. Your player base is not represented by only the opinions of Fog whisperers and content creators.
While you have had some great changes recently they have been few and far between and they're undermined by the lackluster quality in your work this is evident in your releases considering the recycled perks that you released this chapter. With your only focus in relation to quality seemingly being on pumping out new feng cosmetic$ I know that may be hard to hear because I know your team works hard, but this is the truth when we are being honest about the last two chapters. Now onto your changes.
Starting with my favorite perk Dead Hard the third nerf for DH is asinine.
"Dead Hard will activate after safely unhooking a Survivor. When activated, press the active ability button while injured and running to gain the Endurance Status Effect for 0.5 seconds, then become Exhausted. Dead Hard will deactivate when it successfully protects the user from damage.
This will put a damper on how often Dead Hard can be used, keeping it as a powerful reward for Survivor who have earned it."
Dead hard even though it was popular in use was not problematic, the powerful reward was being able to successfully use it in the first place which is a challenge in its own rite for new DH. Does BHVR have the percentage rate of survivors who bring DH and successfully use it vs failed uses? I guarantee the rate for failed uses/no uses is much higher than successful uses which despite popularity should be considered before any changes. Did BHVR consolidate this data for their changes? Very likely no, I would be surprised if BHVR could even access this data. The problem players complained about was never "THIS PLAYER IS USING DEAD HARD TOO MUCH" its "THIS PLAYER IS USING DEAD HARD"
it had plenty of counterplay and only a short window for use. This change is just your way of being too afraid to delete a perk from the game that players complain about. Perhaps you should consider just deleting the perks instead of de facto deleting them like how you have been.
Next on to med kits: "Having easy access to quick and plentiful heals can cause problems, particularly for highly skilled Survivors who can evade the Killer for quite some time." -- "For Killers, this means that any chase that doesn’t end with a hook- even if they managed to damage a Survivor- can be completely undone in a matter of seconds."
Translation: We're nerfing medkits because there are good survivors who can use them which makes them REALLY strong. Everyone else who is not a 2k+ hour survivor pro be damned.
Also why BHVR are you punishing survivors who win the chase? Players should be punished for losing the chase against a good player and you're going to handicap medkits because some players are good and some players are bad? Let's not forget the plethora of anti med kit and anti healing builds, BHVR how are new medkits gonna fair against coulrophobia, Sloppy butcher and franklins? They won't. Does BHVR even play their own game?
On to killer perk nerfs so I don't appeared super biased against my killer main friends.
Pain resonance: This perk did not need a nerf, because while it was annoying it had counter play unlike eruption, PR + DMS (which is basically old eruption) isn't nearly as frustrating for players. .
BECAUSE it has something BHVR use to care about with their design decisions and that is Counterplay. PR + DMS could be countered by hopping off the gen easily right before your teammate got hooked. This is just another change because BHVR sees high usage. That is the trend going forward for BHVR.
This philosophy "Is it being used popularly? It needs to be changed" will continue to frustrate and exhaust your playerbase.
Circle of Healing: with the change for this perk, BHVR might as well have deleted it from the game. Survivors you will not see this perk in your games often if at all. Killers rejoice.
Let's point out some more of BHVRs animosity towards counter-play and their new philosophy of change simply for the sake of change. Using their own words.
Flashlights the weakest survivor item in the game yet they receive more nerfs:
The Nurse: "Similar to The Wraith, The Nurse could also be burned while blinking. This didn’t come up very often since it was very risky and difficult to pull off, but it is also being removed."
There it is folks from the horses mouth. a counterplay mechanic that in BHVRs own words, didn't come up often and was very risky and difficult, BUT rewarding and fun is also being removed. BHVR forbid anyone have a fun, risky counterplay mechanic against a high tier killer, no we can't have any skillful mechanics.
Need more proof BHVR changes things just for the sake of change? Here they go again in their own words
The Artist: Survivors could shine a Flashlight at crows to scare them away. This also didn’t come into play very often since crows could easily be shooed away without using Flashlight charges. This is also being removed
a FL mechanic that didn't come into play very often and doesn't REALLY need to be removed since they can easily be shooed away without using charges is also being removed because change.
All these changes to gameplay, the neutering of perks and in game mechanics disillusion your player base and reduce the skill ceiling for both survivors and killers players alike. Have a nice day, consider what I wrote or don't.
TL;DR bhvr changed things for no reason making their game worse.
"Translation: We're nerfing medkits because there are good survivors who can use them which makes them REALLY strong."
WHAT IS THIS!?!?!
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I have a feeling I'm going to be using this alot.
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Anyone that's played long enough has gotten 0k's and 4's on every map, this isn't a point you can make.
When people are of equal skill, who the map decides to ######### over determines who wins and how badly. Some maps even outright override skill (Haddonfield can be won by pretty much every killer if they refuse to leave the three gen that is created every time). Garden of Joy has several infinites on the house, The Game has so many pallets that there's no point to greed any of them, and do I have to explain RPD?
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@Seraphor said:
Maps are not as bad as people like to think, and logically there's no difference to being sent to a map or arriving there naturally, it's a fallacy based on perception. If you didn't know your opponents chose the map, you wouldn't have any reason to get salty or triggerd by it.
I've won and lost on every map, as both survivor and killer, and on a range of killers. Admittedly some killers do better or worse on certain maps, but that's part of the variety between them, and survivors don't know which killer they're going against so they can't influence that outcome.
I've played on Midwich as Dredge (by far his best map) and completely slaughtered the survivors, I've also played on Midwich as Dredge and had my ass handed to me.
I've beaten a 3 gen hook camping Deathslinger with the aid of some sensible survivors, on RPD. A map it seems that both survivors and killer hate, because ultimately knowledge and experience of a certain map is likely more important than the map itself. Learn how to run the map in question and you'll perform much better on it.
Player skill and survivor coordination is ultimately a far, far greater factor, and that's where the confirmation bias comes in, the correlation over causation:
Did you lose because the SWF you faced sent you to Ormond? Or did you lose because you faced a well coordinated SWF?
If certain maps were truly so broken, this would be reflected in the kill rates for those maps. Maps like Ormond and Haddonfield would have massively reduced kill rates, while maps like Midwich would have hugely inflated kill rates. BHVR have already taken steps to rebalance certain maps, such as Eyrie, so we know they act on this data.
Ultimately, I think map offerings should simply be hidden, like mori's and shrouds, so that knowledge of how the map was selected doesn't influence player behaviour or trigger people.
"All maps are equal" is a HELL of a take.
You don't understand pain until you've been on fractured cowshed and 3/4th of the map is one massive chain of loops.
Also no, do not hide Location offerings, I need to know when I should alt+F4 the game.
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Suggestion seems to be "Have the Stranger Things perks be upgraded similar to the unique perks survivors and killers have".
On the one hand you can argue that it's not fair to the people who don't have it since they literally can't upgrade it to not require BP.
On the other hand, oh no, I have to spend an extra 9,750/19,500 BP to get every perk on a character, oh woe is me.
Don't see why not legitimately.
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We hare at BHVR have heard your cries.
According to the data, 36% of you little shits are still using self care.
It has been nerfed to 10% healing speed.
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I'm tired of people getting upset and quitting because "I was knocked down once".
I'm tired of people bringing flashlights.
I'm tired of people leading the killer to me while I'm busy.
I'm tired of people hopping onto the generator I'm on at 5 gens.
I'm tired of people staying under the hook!
I'm tired of people not following me to heal when I don't stay under the hook!
Please stop being dumb! Please!!!
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"My side has been nerfed, I demand the other side be nerfed as well!"
"But we nerfed the other side too."
"I'm sorry I don't think I heard you, you should just do what I say instead."
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Bubba kinda circumvents most camp rescues sadly. Otherwise two people going in and one taking a hit while the other rescues would be the best way to counter it.
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@Grum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380602#Comment_3380602
I mean it was virtually useless in most scenarios against any halfway decent killer, so let's stop pretending it was just a free 3rd health state. Dead Hard was incredibly easy to counter.
Dead Hard was so easy to counter that every survivor used it.
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And you have an idea to do that then?
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That's great.
Now let this thread that had no conversation for more than 2 weeks stay dead.
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This is the first time I've seen someone say the recent nerf isn't going to be enough.
Stop.
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There is literally nothing you can do about camping or tunneling outside of playing better and preventing the killer from doing it in the first place.
It's how the game was designed. It's #########, but that's just how it is.
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@philward1953 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383801#Comment_3383801
You said "Here, let me just mute the comms reeeaaaalllll quick aaaand the killer found me."
I assumed you said that because you thought turning off comms would take a long time
Don't make me repeat myself.
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What are you talking about? The game is boring now.
The 3 Gen vs CoH situation will be non-existent after this.
I thought you people HATED going against Skull Merchant.
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No.
Please do not give this game the Overwatch treatment.
I am not starting over.
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I don't see how the amount of time to takes to mute someone matters.
I don't want to be called racial slurs because I'm running a perk the other person doesn't like.
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Whaaaaaaat?
But *insert half the maps in the game* is so good why would you even say that?
Are you implying RPD is the worst map in the game because that might hurt the devs feelings.
But seriously why does Garden have a basically infinite loop on the house?
WHY DID THEY INTRODUCE AN INFINITE TO RED FORESTS HOUSE!?!
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Yeah, we need more information than this.
It's heavily recommended that you play the game as killer, specifically against a team of perkless bots so you can have a good idea as to WHY you're being found all the time.
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There has to be something that makes something you can hit someone with over a car to make punching a potentially more valuable option, and it sure as hell can't be limited ammo.
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@papi_papayaa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383079#Comment_3383079
Are you a killer main? Because if you take into consideration the perspectives of other players such as "solo queue players" who I argue make up the majority of the game are going to really struggle if not start to play dead by daylight less because of this update changes. This isn't just a normal update, this is a game changer update and in my opinion the for the worst. The healing change isn't something small its going to be a huge change to the game maybe the biggest changes in the last year or two. Dead hard already received such a big change and it's going to be nerfed again doesn't make sense to me.
Hello yes, person who plays 100% of the game here, as someone who has played almost exclusively solo let me give you my opinion.
The changes to the med-kits were necessary because they have for years been the strongest item in the game to bring, especially the Green ones. You have something that requires no one else to heal, even if it's a limited use item, allowing other people to work on the gens. There have been times where I told someone that rescued me to work on the last generator while I took care of myself and then helped them after I was done.
Medkits and healing in general aren't the only things being changed. If you notice, with the exception of Dead Hard every single perk that was nerfed was something that helped push the game into what I like to call a "Dual Stronghold" game. What this meant was the killer would have one side of the map where they would have their three gen to defend with minimum time to get to each one, while the survivors would take the other side of the map to set up CoH and solo heal in a spot the killer would have to throw the game to get to.
This is not going to be the first time that I say CoH turns the game into an uncounterable boring slog that lasts until someone gives up.
Every nerf is to a perk that specifically contributes to this gameplay, DH being the sole exception which I believe was nerfed because it's the most chosen perk in the game despite its nerf. And now we have people complaining about this happening. It boils to a very simple sentence.
You're damned if ya do, and you're damned if ya don't.
If there is anything that should be changed, then altruistic healing would have to be
the only thing I would consider taking out of the updateactually take away the nerf from Hillbilly too, even the survivors are saying that's not ok. Do you have any idea how hard it is to unite Survivor and Killer mains in this game? -
Ah yes, why didn't I think of that?
Here, let me just mute the comms reeeaaaalllll quick aaaand the killer found me.
######### cool.
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I don't see why not, especially since Hemorrhage will likely be seeing a lot more use.
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Here's what will happen if competitive mode is put in.
Players that want to play to win will just go to casual mode because nobody wants to play the game against people that can give them a challenge in this game, they just want to rofl stomp.
If competitive mode is put in the game would have to be changed drastically to accommodate for it, up to and including perks and killers being unable to be chosen easily.
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I've said this for Splatoon and I'm saying it now.
I don't need to hear children tell me how they fornicate with my mother.
It gets old in text form, voice form would just be fresh reasons to hate playing this game.
And I don't need more of those.
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*PTSD flashback of every single bear trap that was DH'd over*
Uh...no.
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I stopped reading at DH is more powerful.
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Here's the thing.
I don't disagree with you when you say it's dumb that "Self Care was used heavily and therefore must be nerfed".
That said with the exception of Dead Hard, which has always been complained about, every perk that was nerfed was something that helped contribute to "One side is a survivor safe zone, one side is an impenetrable 3 gen" thing that's been going on.
I don't think these were nerfs that were chosen because "Everyone uses them", or at least not only that.
Can't say the same about Add-ons.
Hillbilly didn't deserve this.
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I see people saying "Increase scourge hooks" and that's not bad, but all they have to do is program scourge hooks so that "Scourge Hooks don't spawn "adjacent" to one another unless they literally cannot spawn without being adjacent to another hook" and the big problems with the perk are gone.
This way Scourge hooks would be spread out and if you can't reach one it's not because all four of them picked the corner on the other side of the map that the survivors are avoiding for some reason.
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I can explain.
Why are you running into a Dead zone after you got hit?
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Yes, I too would like to have a much needed nerf mean literally nothing.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382042#Comment_3382042
I'm not sure I understand, what do you mean no kick? You still have to kick generators, or at least get them regressing some other way, in order for Surveillance to do anything. I suppose that gives it more synergy, but evaluating the perks on their own, they're very comparable.
And yeah, greats don't give info, but in my experience most skillchecks do seem to end up being good, especially if survivors don't know to try and avoid them.
To be fair Surveillance says regressing generators, doesn't say anything about kicking them.
If a generator regresses because you smacked someone upside the head, it still counts.
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Ok, I heard "Hag is strong" and now I think I'm going to leave.
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I've been begging for a proper CoH nerf since it appeared.
So I guess they never listened to me.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358736#Comment_3358736
It's about striking the right balance as pips serve two purpsoes. First, to reward time spent in game. Gaining pips is supposed to reflect time invested into the game (as stated by BHVR). So in a way "time spent playing = pips". However, with how many things related to match-participation (or lack thereof) that determine whether you pip or not being out of your control the bare minimum should be that "time spent playing = - pips" definitely isn't a thing. In respect to the first purpose you are right, being disconnectd due to the game crashing etc. should not result into a depip because you still spent time playing and intended to continue playing. - But then comes the second purpose of de-pipping: to punish behaviour that is detrimental to game health by disturbing the natural flow of the match. AFK-ing and DC-ing are the two ways this can happen that are not contained in the game mechanics (as opposed to e.g. taking chances and failing skillchecks on hook. That is part of the game mechanic). I would be all for it if the game could tell if you pressed alt f4 because the game got stuck/bugged/whatever, if you PC crashed, there was a power outage or your wifi died - but alas, the game is not able to tell. It only knows you lost the connection - for whatever reason - in the middle of the match, preventing it from playing out in the intended way. This result is what leads to the depip. Arguably, making it less appealing to disturb the match via DCing/AFKing by keeping the depips is a reasonable measure. It does kinda suck to be the collateral damage, I give you that - but as long as the game can't tell the reason for the disconnect that's the best it can do.
De-pipping isn't meant to punish people messing with the game, it's to lower your rank so that you're matched against easier people.
Because De-pipping doesn't actually do that anymore, it does nothing but rub salt in the wounds of people that were camped at 5 gens.
There is literally no reason for it to exist when its original reason doesn't exist anymore.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381569#Comment_3381569
I never thought I'd see someone try to say Pharmacy deserves a nerf, but here we are I guess.
I didn't say Pharmacy needed a nerf, I said Green Medkits do.
Pharmacy is fine.
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"survivors are getting nerfed alot I hear"
"Pain Resonance...The first time each Survivor is hooked on a Scourge Hook, the generator with the most progress will explode and lose progress. We’ve also reduced the difference between different Tiers of the perk (now 11/13/15%)."
"Call of Brine...To tone down its power, we have reduced the additional regression speed to 115/120/125% (was 150/175/200%)."
"Overcharge...To bring it in line with other perks, we reduced the maximum regression speed to 130% (was 200%). This would make it take longer for the regression rate to become beneficial, so at the same time, we’ve increased the starting regression speed to 85% (was 75%) to help offset this. Additionally, the penalty for missing the special Skill Check has been reduced to 2/3/4% (was 3/4/5%)."
Those are some interesting survivor perks.
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I said it before but I'll put it here.
I have absolutely no issues with survivors sharing their items EXCEPT for the location offerings.
I get sent to hell often enough, I don't need it to happen more.
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The purpose of Pharmacy is to guarantee that you have a healing item when you need it most and that you can access it quickly. If possible, you could pre-open and get multiple chests open so that several people could benefit from it and the basement having one meant you always had an easy access Green Medkit in a place the killer is probably not going to bother looking.
The fact that the Green Med-kit was the best item in the game helped with the strength of the perk.
The issue is that Pharmacy is going to do exactly what it has been doing, but now the item in question isn't as broken as it used to be. I feel this is a good thing because the Green Medkit has been the best item to take for 6 years and being able to potentially spawn one for each chest on the map is terrifying, almost as much as CoH.
And this is assuming you don't bring Ace in the Hole to potentially (though unlikely to) double its use and you don't have Appraisal to spawn yet another Green Medkit.
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I mean, if the goal is to make absolutely nobody want to play Dredge, then sure.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380822#Comment_3380822
Survivors shouldn't be able to bypass a healing nerf, just because they are next to each other. Killers need compensation for the gen regression nerfs, and ALL healing speeds is the compensation.
Killers are already being compensated by the fact that half the team is not doing generators or opening gates.
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Not everyone makes $40 an hour mate.
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@Viktor1853 said:
If you have bad internet then dont play a multiplayer game
JuSt BuY bEtTeR iNtErNeT
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People complain about 3 gen stalemates.
BHVR responds by nerfing everything that caused 3 gen stalemates.
People are now complaining about these perks being nerfed.
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I just find it weird that nobody used Dead Hard to prevent tunneling
Until the nerf was announced.
Then apparently that's what literally everyone used it for.
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Dude this thread hasn't had any conversation for a week, why are you bugging me?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380519#Comment_3380519
You have a problem with making logical fallacies. every response of yours has been a strawman
You're saying Medkits are being nerfed because "A few good survivors are using them".
This isn't true.
EVERYONE is using them right now.
There is literally no reason to be able to heal in 8 seconds.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380436#Comment_3380436
Thats not the full context of why bhvr said they were nerfing them they said medkits in the hands of good survivors who win chases are a problem because killers who over commit, but don't end the chase with a hook are punished bc survivors can heal after winning their chase.
That is 100% punishing players for being good at the game and rewarding players that are not. Why should you as the killer who cant end a chase with a hook be rewarded with increased heal times?
You're right, I clearly don't know what I'm talking about.
Medkits are actually the worst items in the game.