SuzuKR
SuzuKR
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740707#Comment_2740707
A good enough Nurse can predict you/track you through other means than sight. There exist sounds and a constant speed of survivors that she can use to accurately predict where you'll be pretty much every time.
Wow, it's almost like this is what mindgaming is for. They make a prediction, and you try and make them predict wrong, and they try and predict right.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740710#Comment_2740710
But he got a 3k average during his experiment. Didn't he?
Yes. Against survivors that literally played like morons and suicided to someone camping.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740704#Comment_2740704
Well to quote Otz from yesterday: "a Killer can get a ~2k average with a huge handicap if they are willing to play as dirty as you can."
So essentially he's saying the game is balanced if you play dirty which most killers should do anyway.
How on earth do you get "killer sided" from that?
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740698#Comment_2740698
All survivors have are pallets, windows, and holding W, and she counters all of them.
And... mindgaming... you know... using your noggin? You're also forgetting breaking LOS.
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Nurse basekit crosses a map roughly in the same speed a regular 115% (4.6m/s) killer does by walking. Her "mobility" is pretty much entirely in regards to in an actual chase. It's not like Blight's where it's generic map-crossing mobility at basekit. Obviously, range add-ons would change this.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740682#Comment_2740682
Well we're not talking about balancing her at the top level of play. They clearly don't balance for the top level they try to do it more towards the average skill level which Nurse is way too strong for. I'm not necessarily need to go out and nerf her especially because she has the lowest kill rate I'm just wondering why the community gives her a pass. And I don't think it's because she's "balanced" or the most "well designed" killer.
She's "strong" at the average level because most players do not know how to play versus Nurse, but the person that learned Nurse had to become much better comparatively to do well as Nurse. When one side is blatantly more skilled than the other, then it tends to result in stomps. This is just a given. Even outside of competitive, she performs more normally when going against actual even matchup teams of people that actually know how to play against her (eg, through just regular KYF/no holds barred/etc). No duh people will lose when they go against someone they never bothered learning to beat.
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In case you are curious, in regular competitive tournaments where survivors are heavily restricted and many aspects of the match are predetermined (such as map/maximum rarity of bringable items/etc), Nurse averages out to roughly 2 kills/2 escapes.
When there was a tournament recently which tried out a no-holds-barred with absolutely zero restrictions, Nurse lost the majority of her games.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740547#Comment_2740547
I have an issue with this because there are legitimately unbeatable situations with her. She has a 100/0 matchup on Midwich meaning that she can literally kill every survivor faster than they can finish every single gen especially with a perk like Starstruck. She is actually so incredibly quick and negates pallets, windows, AND the hold w meta. I don't think she's balanced by any stretch of the imagination.
Which is why competitive preselects the map so it's not one-sided for either side. For reference, her competitive map is Coal Tower. That is what it takes to have an even match against heavily restricted survivors. Also, nothing is ever unbeatable in this game. People are not perfect. Even on a map like Midwich, you just have to make the right read enough times. There is a reason she consistently averages out to 2 kills/2 escapes against even skill matchups.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740662#Comment_2740662
True. That would be a pretty good balance change that wouldn't rock the boat too much.
??? That would be a major nerf for no reason to one of the best designed killers in the game.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740649#Comment_2740649
What evidence do you have that the game is truly survivor sided? Even tournaments that have no restrictions on them come out to being balanced (slightly killer sided but negligible). Personally I have hardly seen any stats or evidence to show that the game really is survivor sided outside of people just saying that it is based on their own experience which is never a good thing to go off of.
That tournament you and others cite literally disproves its own point that you are trying to make. 27 of the 30 matches were with S-tier killers. The remaining 3 were all A-tier killers (Pinhead, Oni, Huntress). Pinhead and Oni got completely humiliated. Huntress did okay at 3 kills. Spirit got clowned on for all of her matches except one. Nurse lost most of her games. Blight did mostly good. Furthermore, a heavy RNG factor of that tournament was people trying to guess what the other was going to play/build and then losing/winning when they guess wrong/right.
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The actual answer, which I've already said in the other thread is that she is an even matchup against players of even skill if all players are extremely skilled. The reason she "stomps" in player perception is most people don't know how to play against her, and most people that do take the time and effort to learn Nurse to that degree are far more skilled than the average player. Nurse is never unbeatable, even at the highest levels of play in the entire world. She is not comparable to pre-nerf Spirit because Nurse has to actually commit and gives info of what she's doing at all times, unlike pre-nerf Spirit where you could not tell if, when, or where she was phasing.
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So. You saw a thread, and decided to make an entirely new thread, for the exact same topic. Why?
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740658#Comment_2740658
I mean that wouldn't do very much at all. It would stop STBFL, NOED, and Devour, that's all that's worthwhile.
You're forgetting:
Haunted Ground
Surge (Jolt)
Make Your Choice
Sloppy Butcher
Starstruck
All of which are perks that range from okay to good on her.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740530#Comment_2740530
Making her post blink a "special attack" wouldn't kill her but it would ruin some fun
It would be logically inconsistent, since her ability isn't her attack. For example, Demogorgon's Shred is an ability which is his attack. Blight attacks with and during his Lethal Rush. But Nurse only uses her blinks to move around. Her attack is just a regular attack she uses afterwards.
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It's only survivor sided at extremely high levels of play which most people won't deal with it ever. Otherwise, it's mostly balanced.
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Farming is boring, and no one is entitled to demanding others play a certain way.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740615#Comment_2740615
Only initially. It’s easier to learn to ignore the indicator then learn to use the ability without it.
Ideally, people would play with it on and off, with it off for increasingly longer amounts until they stop using it once they've built the muscle memory. Using it too much when learning builds a reliance on the visual focus for the indicator instead of the muscle memory for the length held to length blinked. But a toggle would be nice in this case.
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@dugman said:
Nurse is the most powerful killer at the highest player levels and the weakest killer at average to low levels. She has the toughest learning curve and the highest reward ceiling. So the trick is that she probably could stand to get a buff that helps new players use her but that doesn’t significantly increase her performance among Nurse veterans, and also possibly a nerf to bring her down just a bit at the highest level if at the highest level she’s then getting too great a kill rate.
Personally I’d be for something like
- Let her keep her head up while wheezing. It’s a super annoying part of her kit that she stares at her feet half the game. This would be a bit of a buff, but mainly one that helps newer Nurses, and also just a general quality of life improvement to make her more fun to use.
- Show the Plaid Flannel targeting indicator by default and replace the Plaid Flannel add-on with something else. Plaid Flannel is an add-on that only really helps new Nurses learn to use the character, high level Nurses don’t need it and never use it. So making it part of the base ability makes the character easier to learn without necessarily significantly increasing her performance at high level play.
- After those changes are put in, then if her high level play kill rate is too great slow down her teleport refresh a bit to compensate.
I think with those tweaks you get a Nurse that more players might actually try and learn but whose overall power level at the upper end is kept in check.
Plaid Flannel being base would be super distracting personally. It's visual clutter for people that learned it muscle memory.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Because you cannot just nerf her. Nurse needs a full Rework, her power will either be too strong (like it is currently) or too weak (if you put too much limitations on her). Nurse basically does not play DBD and she would never be released in her current state. The only reason she exists with her power is because she was released early in the game when a lot of broken stuff was around - like real infinites, old BNPs, old Moris, etc...
But Nurse stays.
And IMO she is not even that hard to learn. Hardest Killer to learn? Yes. As hard as some players might say it? No. I have read players say that it takes weeks or months to learn her, but not really.
As I said, she needs a full rework. She needs to get her Blinks reworked (I dont know, like not being able to blink through Walls at default) and her Movement Speed increased to make her more in-line with other Killers. It should be easier to learn and play her, but on the other hand you should not have a Killer which basically cannot lose anymore when you are really good with her.
And you wont see ideas to rework her, because it is pointless. First of all, I dont think that any player can really think about a full rework which turns Nurse into a Killer which is actually playing DBD AND keeps her in a strong state. Because this would include everything, like creating a brand-new Killer.
And, second - the Devs just spent time to rewrite her to fix her Bugs she had for years. They wont change her drastically now, because this would mean that all this work was for nothing.
Last but not least, there would be a huge outcry in the community if they would rework her Power.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740599#Comment_2740599
Well after 5th run, it was so easy for sure. But my first time, i wanted break my pc so many times.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740596#Comment_2740596
Nurse gives you info yeah. She is telling you i am gonna down you. Because you have nothing against her. You can try mind-game her but she can mingame you back. You can break LoS but she can use first blink for distance and second blink for hit. Nurse is broken too. You just have mind games against her and both players can mind game each other. Not fun against her.
Sorry, you are objectively wrong. Nurse is an even match for evenly skilled high-skill players. This has been repeatedly proven dozens of times. Also yes, mindgaming works both ways. That is literally the base line of a mindgame. Both tries to read what the other does and throw them off.
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@dallasmedicbag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740597#Comment_2740597
so you agree that them fixing dead hard from being exhausted on the ground isn't a buff, right?
Obviously. Things should work as intended. If they are THEN determined to be badly balanced/designed, they can be changed AFTER they actually work properly.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740586#Comment_2740586
No actually, this mean game is bad balanced. Maps and loops are destroying most killers because they bad designed. This is not makes Nurse good designed, she is also bad design because she is ignoring everything. Like i said, they should re-balance maps and rework Nurse. But anyway, i know BHVR and this will never happen. I am just waiting for other horror-multiplayer games.
Even with rebalanced maps, Nurse is a non-issue because she doesn't care about mechanical limits to begin with. Rebalancing maps just makes it less of a potentially RNG garbage experience for the rest of the weaker cast. Like I've said, Nurse's chase is all about mindgames. That is WHY it is a non-issue, and why old Spirit was an issue. Old Spirit gave zero info of anything. You couldn't tell if she was phasing, if she was then where to, so on and so forth. Nurse does not have that problem.
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Furthermore, the BHVR devs themselves have literally said people drastically over the MMR soft cap have to be soft capped back down, because otherwise queues would take literally hours. There was people at 3000+ MMR, but they had to be capped to 1900 because there's no matches at that high of MMR in anything short of hours. So obviously, people like that going against actual 1900 MMR players would stomp them (even assuming MMR was accurate in the slightest). Furthermore, Otz has nearly 8000 hours in the game. That's more than most people would play DBD in their entire lifetime.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740576#Comment_2740576
So either SBMM doesn't work and must be scrapped immediately, or killers are indeed OP and should be nerfed immediately. One of the two conclusions can be drawn.
Well yes, that is why people are calling SBMM useless. It doesn't actually help.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740572#Comment_2740572
M1 killers are auto-lose on Survivor-Side maps (Haddonfield, Badham, The Game, Coldwind)
M1 killers are auto-lose on big maps (Red Forest, Swamp, RPD)
M1 killers are auto-lose if survivors have strong loops.
But Nurse has not problem at least at loops and maps. Maybe Lerry and RPD can be problem. If Nurse player is know how to play and smart, she can destroy most of teams. And she can kill min 2 survivors against strong teams. Which killer can do this? Just Nurse has this potential. She has lowest kill rates because most Nurses are not that good.
I mean, yes, auto-losing due to map/tile RNG and design is bad design. That is exactly why Nurse is the best designed character. Those don't affect her. Skill in reading and mindgaming the opponent does. Also, you seem to have this weird misconception for some reason. Nurse is never unbeatable. Ever. Even god Nurses have even matches when placed against god survivor teams (when the survivor teams are heavily restricted such as not being able to run more than 1 of any perk except BT which is 2 for the entire team) on a decent map for the Nurse.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739573#Comment_2739573
SBMM is a thing. Otz was matched with people of the same skill level.
SBMM is a joke that factors in exclusively kills and escapes and nothing else. That is not a good indicator of skill whatsoever.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740565#Comment_2740565
Ok lets see:
M1 killers:
They need to dead with good loopers.
They need to deal with Dead Hard.
CoH is destroying their pressure.
No teleport, good luck to stop generators.
Nurse:
She is ignoring loops.
She need to deal with Dead Hard.
CoH is not big problem with her because Nurse can finish chases so fast.
She can teleport to generator and stop them (If she has info from Tinkerer, Discordance or any perk)
Poor Nurse!
BHVR should rework Nurse, nerf loops and buff M1 killers. But it is not going to happen.
M1 killers auto-lose on strong tile loops. And whether or not they can chase is determined entirely off map RNG and not actual skill expression (assuming equal skill level at very good levels of play).
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740559#Comment_2740559
This is same for Nurse too? And if Nurse & Survivors have same skills, Nurse have more chance to win.
And if we are talking for survivor skills, m1 killers needs more skills. I mean you can learn m1 killers easyly but you need to deal with god-loopers. And if survivors are good at loops, m1 killers have nothing. But Nurse is ignoring everything.
You are objectively incorrect. The best survivors in the world versus the best Nurses in the world even out to generally 2K average. WHILE the survivors are playing with severe restrictions and on a relatively okay map for Nurse at that. M1 killers need "more" skills because they just cannot perform at all in many situations to a degree that wouldn't be an auto-loss against very good players. A regular M1 goes to a setup like three long wall jungle gyms connected into shack. The chase is already lost. They have to give up on that chase and go somewhere else, because it is literally impossible to get a quick enough down to be worth the time against people who know how to run those tiles. Nurse chase and being chased by Nurse requires actually thinking about what the other player is thinking you will do, and adapting in mindgame accordingly.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740535#Comment_2740535
Not actually. Learning her is hard for sure but DbD is not Souls-like game. Just you need to pratice her more than other killers. When you learn how to blink and mindgames, she is not hard anymore. And learning her is rewarding you so much.
The difficult ceiling about her isn't her power. It's playing against people that know how to play against you.
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She's the best designed killer in the game because she is not limited mechanically. Chases are mindgames of who can make or fake the better read on the next action one takes (or doesn't). It's not tile-dependent/not a predetermined chase just because it's a strong or weak tile. At most for a dead zone, she hits you the same way any other killer would. But unique to Nurse is that you can also evade her in dead zones because of how her ability and chase works. This makes chases as and against Nurse the epitome of skill.
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Because she's balanced.
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@onekingbee said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740461#Comment_2740461
Again, not my point. My point is I shouldn't be told to stay in a toxic game, or be penalized if I leave. If course I've rage quit, so has everyone else who's commented in this thread, but that's not what I'm saying. And I'm aware I can just die on hook, but what if I just want to quit a shite game? And it's not "so called" toxic behavior, of course camping is toxic.
First of all, you are expected to play a game out fully when you queue up. Get over yourself. Don't like it? Quit.
Second of all, camping isn't inherently toxic. It's just a strategy with its own risks and benefits.
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@Minecraft said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739954#Comment_2739954
and yet you do dull totems, open chests and bring no items
Normally no to the first two, and yes to the third. But none of these answers matter anyways, because there is no excuse for intentionally that isn't an IRL emergency or an actual cheater.
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@onekingbee said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740248#Comment_2740248
Or, if you're getting face camped you could dc without a penalty. If a killer wants to make it suck, then why stay in the game? Just get the DC and leave, that's my point. Vice versa for the killers. Or, fix the match making so casual players aren't getting paired with sweaty pricks
So you don’t sabotage the game for the other 3? Get over it.
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@onekingbee said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739954#Comment_2739954
Or people who are tired of the BS. You're not wrong though.
Don’t care. Don’t queue up if you’re not going to play just cause something you dislike happened. People need to get over themselves or quit the game so they quit ruining it for others.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739979#Comment_2739979
I've never paid attention to "comp DBD" (if such a thing exist?) outside of a few tournaments between people like Meeeows, Umbra, Crunchy, Otz, Umbra, Cahlaflour, etc but those people usually play more for fun than the outcome anyway but maybe that's just because I watch people or don't take the game super seriously all the time.)
What rules do they usually have in place?
No perk can be brought more than once for the entire team, except BT, which can be brought twice. Maps are predetermined for each killer to be on their best map because that’s what it takes for it to attempt to be evenly matched at comp. Against weaker killers, there’s usually a dozen or so perks that are completely banned outright. Certain combos such as Decisive and Unbreakable on the same survivor are also banned against basically every weaker end killer. There are some bans for killer as well, and killer-specific bans, but much fewer than those for survivor. Survivors can usually only bring 1 uncommon flashlight with uncommon or lower addons and 1 firecracker total. Pretty much every heal/reset perk is banned completely against weaker killers. So on and so forth.
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If this was the case, comp DBD wouldn’t need dozens of rules and restrictions to make it fair at the highest level of play.
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@onekingbee said:
I see there are some camping killers that left comments, any opinions from survivors?
I play survivor and killer evenly. I don’t DC when I play survivor cause I’m not a selfish POS.
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Blatant hate speech/bigotry/slurs/threats/encouraging self-harm/etc should be an immediate permanent ban from the game. There is absolutely no excuse ever for any of those sorts of things to be said, ever. People don’t say a slur in a heated moment if the slur wasn’t already part of the vocabulary. And if you’re encouraging self harm or threatening people over a game, you should talk to a therapist and severely re-evaluate yourself.
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DCing is for cowards and pricks who don’t care about ruining the match for their teammates.
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People will look at data and conclusions, completely ignore it, make up a completely nonsensical different point, and then act like the original data and conclusions support it.
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@White_Jesus said:
Feature
In many matches, both from my own experience and many streamers, the killer will down a survivor then force them to bleed out as a "victory lap" or as a punishment for the survivor. I'm suggesting that the survivors are given a button to instantly bleed out when in the dying state. This would allow players to avoid these hostage situations and create fewer powerless situations where the player must decide between a 5 minute timer for leaving the match or a 5 minute bleed out.
Counter-Argument
The main argument I see against this feature comes in the form of trolling. Players could force themselves to bleed out on purpose to harm the game. However, there was a patch very similar to this feature I'm suggesting. In patch 2.7.0 the "End Game Collapse" feature was implemented to ensure that survivors wouldn't hold a game hostage. With this patch came a feature that allowed killers to open the exit gates! That is directly detrimental to the killer, but in order to avoid hostage situations it was allowed. So I am suggesting the same power be granted for survivors.
Bleeding to death is not hostage, because the game will end in a specific amount of time. Also, the reason this doesn't exist is so people don't have another way to suicide just because they don't like how the match is going.
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Change, yes, nerf, no. It needs a side grade. It’s not really well designed but it’s also a pretty subpar perk. An idea would be making it no longer a Hex perk, like so:
Gains 1 Token per first hook. Once gens are done, gain 4% movespeed. As long as there are tokens left, all survivors are permanently exposed. Hitting a survivor with a basic attack removes 1 Token.
Then it’s less unreliable/bad but also not as badly designed.
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Cause people suggest dumb garbage like banning pallet blinding
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It’s really convenient to ignore most of those survivors willingly suicided to a camper
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This sort of post is why people view the forums as a joke
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@SunsetSherbet said:
In this patch, Nurse is getting stronger and Clown is getting weaker. Let that sink in.
Yes, bugs should be fixed. We’ve got a genius here.
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"Why does BHVR not listen to the community?"
The community:
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@TragicSolitude said:
If I'm not having fun in a match, I go AFK. I've never been banned for it. I've had survivors disconnect, though, and I thank them generously for the lovely free BP (in my head, because I'm on console with messages disabled).
I hope you do.
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There's no way to punish it that isn't easily abusable. Devs have tried the ideas people have suggested before. That is WHY they scrapped those ideas.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/303864/when-is-camping-not-camping
I'll camp
- When all gens are completed. It's a solid 'crisis moment' for everyone. I won't do it if more than 1 person is dead though.
- When someone is BM.
That said, that's not camping and the score penalty is annoying. I swear, some people will deliberately run me around the hook for this exact reason.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2738303#Comment_2738303
Eh. On some killers, facecamping is far too rewarding and not all that risky at all. If you get an early hook on an instadown killer, you can pretty reliably win using this.
Well no, they do gens and leave and you get maybe 2K max if they have comms/Kindred. For solos/altruistic morons, it’s fully possible to get more though I can acknowledge.