SuzuKR
SuzuKR
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@Entinaty said:
Honestly I think the Nurse is fine where she is and we should honestly hope that BHVR developers look to her as inspiration for designing more killers going forward. Not necessarily oppressive killers but those that break this tedium of killer ideas that they are currently mired in. For example, why don't we have killers that fly across the map or dig tunnels and capture their prey from underground? Why not killers that can use fog our strike from darkness? We need more killers that break convention and invite new ways to play this game instead of the same old boring tag/hide and seek simulator that has arguably been stale for the past couple of years. What this game needs is growth and experimentation, not bringing killers that actually have some uniqueness back into the same old mired drudgery that most of the others are currently in.
Exactly this.
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If people liked balanced stuff, they’d like Nurse. But people in this community have unrealistic nonsensical expectations like that they should get a 4-man escape/4K every game if they’re good. Newsflash, that means it’s bad matchmaking.
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@Pepsidot said:
Those survivors could've played better, sure. But this is a great showcase as to why these addons need a nerf.
Blight Tag is fine, Ring isn’t
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@ThiccMick said:
Killer Perks:
Nerfs:
Tinkerer: Tinkerer can only proc once per generator.
Bamboozle: Bamboozle can only active once every 30 seconds.
Hex: No One Escapes Death: The first healthy survivor you hit after the last generator is finished will now go into the dying state. After you hook this survivor, all other survivors will receive a -25% penalty to gate opening speed.
Buffs:
Jolt: Jolt will now activate with Special Attacks.
Knock Out: Knock Out will now active with Special Attacks.
Nemesis: Once the obsession is changed in a trial, the new obsession will receive a -5% penalty to Healing and Gate Opening speeds.
Hex: The Third Seal: Survivors effected by Hex: The Third Seal will now suffer with the Exhaustion status effect.
Hysteria: Whenever a healthy survivor is injured, ALL survivors will suffer from the oblivious status effect for 30 seconds.
Survivor Perks:
Nerfs:
Boon: Circle Of Healing: Circle Of Healing no longer gives a speed boost to Medkit healing.
Dead Hard: Dead Hard no longer provides I-Frames.
Iron Will: Grunts of pain are now lowered by 75%.
Spine Chill: Spine Chill will no longer activate if the killer is Undetectable.
Decisive Strike: If another survivor is downed and hooked, Decisive Strike deactivates.
Buffs:
No Mither: The survivor now starts the trial healthy, once put into the injured state, they will stay broken for the remainder of the trial.
Up The Ante: Every time a survivor is hooked for the first time, you gain 25% of charges back on your current item. This is 25% of base item charges and does not take charge addons into consideration.
Lightweight: While you are in the killers terror radius your footstep sounds are silent.
Solidarity: Solidarity now has a conversion rate of 75%.
Self-Care: Players that choose to run Self-Care will automatically have their game uninstalled. This will take effect regardless of platform.
Addons:
Alchemist Ring: After landing a successful hit with a lethal rush, token regeneration rate is increased by 100%.
Redhead's Pinky Finger: While holding a charged bottle, movement speed is decreased by 50%.
Mother-Daughter Ring: Survivors hit immediately after phasing are inflicted with the Hindered and Broken status effect for 30 seconds. (Speed buff removed).
Tombstone Piece: If a survivor is killed while in Evil Within 3, the Shape is put back into Tier-1 for the remainder of the trial.
Items:
Med kits: All med kits will now have 16 charges (Enough for one full heal). The higher rarity the med kit, the quicker it will heal you/others.
Maps: Maps will no longer be able to detect Trappers Traps.
Killers:
Michael Myers:
- Myers now receives a stalking speed bonus, the further away the survivor is.
- Myers now breaks pallets 20% faster while in Tier-3.
- Myers now has a normal lunge distance while in Tier-1.
Ghostface:
- Ghostface's movement speed while crouched is now 110%.
Deathslinger:
- Deathslinger now moves at 115%.
The Pig:
- The key for the reverse bear-trap now has a 10% chance of being in the first searched box.
- The Pig now moves at 110% while crouched.
The Clown:
- Removed the noise the clown makes while vaulting.
The Twins:
- If Victor is not removed from a mounted survivor after 30 seconds, the mounted survivor will enter the dying state.
The Hag:
- The Hag can no longer place traps within 5 meters of a hooked survivor.
The Trickster:
- Removed The Tricksters lullaby.
General Mechanics:
Spawns: Survivors will now always spawn together.
Exhaustion: Survivors effected by the Exhaustion status effect now receive a -25% penalty to the Healing and Repairing action. (This does not work if the killer has inflicted the Exhausted status effect on the survivor with either addons or perks)
Boon Totems: Once a killer has snuffed a Boon Totem, the perk goes onto a cooldown of 60 seconds. Another Boon cannot be activated by this survivor while the perk is on cooldown.
Perk Tiers: Perk Tiers have now been removed.
Bloodweb Reroll: Once a new bloodweb is generated, you can pay 5000 blood points to reroll a new random bloodweb.
The Rift Challenges: Players can now select and have active, 1 killer and 1 survivor challenge at the same time.
Healing: Healing speeds across the board have been capped at 8 seconds. No matter what buffs are currently applied to the player, the player will always take a minimum of 8 seconds to complete a full self-heal. Healing other players will has not been capped.
Lockers: Flashlight saves are no longer possible from lockers.
Basement: The basement now has 2 entrances.
Basement Hooks: All basement Hooks are now considered Scourge Hooks.
Skill Rating: A players MMR is now visible. Players can choose to hide their MMR to other players via the options menu.
Skill Rating Adjustment: The amount of time a player is chased in a trial will now have an effect on MMR Loss/Gain. The amount of time a player spends Idling (Not within the killers terror radius, repairing generators, healing, Cleansing/Blessing Totems or Saving other survivors from hooks will also effect MMR Loss/Gain.
Rank Rewards: Survivors will now earn cosmetic rewards for hitting certain MMR thresholds.
Weekly Challenges: A pool of 5 weekly challenges will be available at the begging of the week. Players can choose 1 of these challenges. These challenges will reward both bloodpoints and Iri Shards on completion.
Maps:
Maps will now have 5 fairly balanced variations/seeds.
These seeds can be tailored to create a fairer experience for both sides by eliminating unfair spawns of strong tiles linked together and also better spacing of tiles to eliminate dead-zones.
New and existing maps will not surpass a certain size. This is to encourage more interaction between both sides.
If you disagree with anything I have suggested, please let me know why.
If you have any other suggestions, please comment below and I will add them to the original post If I like the idea.
Tinkerer/Bamboozle/NOED: No
Dead Hard: i-frames aren’t the problem with its design, the dash is
Decisive Strike: Doesn’t need the nerf. It means they weren’t on gens or anything helpful for 60s or you’re snowballing fast enough it doesn’t matter anyways.
Lightweight: No, completely overtuned and introduces tons of problematic combos.
Pinky Finger: This is garbage
Mother-Daughter Ring: This is garbage
Tombstone Piece: This is garbage
Pig key chance: No
Twins: Would need to exclude chase
Hag: No, her power is literally for area defense
Exhausted: Unnecessary
Lockers: No
Basement second entrance: No
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740530#Comment_2740530
Buff her speed to 4.6 m/s, which would make her more accessible to new players. Where her kill rates are abysmal.
Nerf her blink to 1 blink with a massive cooldown which makes her much weaker in experience player hands. Where she has practically a guaranteed 4k.
Skill issue, get good.
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Unironically skill issue, get good. If you got stomped, you are supposed to have a tiny chance of escape. That is literally the point. Hatch and keys are no longer busted.
In the words of a BDSM-loving sex demon, “No tears, please. It’s a waste of good suffering.”
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The first step to improvement is self-awareness. Stop blaming the game for your lack of skill, and ask for advice or practice to get better.
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Wasn't aware of that, noted. Might be a bug.
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@LeFennecFox said:
The new changes on ptb also buffed nurse/token killers. After blinking/using bubba's power you keep the amount you charged before hand.
???
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I don't see the problem. First was caught by surprise, second ran into a dead zone for some reason after the Infectious proc, and the last two of them were completely out of position against the Blight, the Mikaela literally running straight at the Blight. Alchemist Ring is problematic add-on but this gameplay isn't.
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@dallasmedicbag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743616#Comment_2743616
nurse never gets pallet stunned? sure man if you wanna believe that lol. with this buff its one less defense for survivors. i hate, hate how clearly bhvr balances this game around nurse
You do realize a decent Nurse will just blink to one side and then either hit you or blink to the other and hit you?
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@dallasmedicbag said:
also she doesn't fatigue anymore after getting stunned by a pallet... im pretty sure that wasn't a bug kek thanks for the buff on powerful killers bhvr
The bug fix makes it consistent with other killer powers, but this is a near negligible scenario anyways. Nurse basically never gets pallet stunned.
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BHVR: Thinking of ways to help make solo experience less miserable/info deprived compared to SWF
You: "Is ThIS sUrviVor hANdhOLding???"
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Leatherface is barely mid-tier at best.
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What do you mean backrooms?
Going through different floors by aiming up/down is intended.
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It is mindblowing how people will look at the actual data and then ignore it anyways in favor of calling this game killer-sided at anything except against complete novices or grossly uneven matchups.
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@Zewolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742706#Comment_2742706
Last Chance can be edited to 4/6/8 meter radius.
Its a anti facecamp perk.
Cant count how many times a killer mostly bubba just stood next to the survivor for two minutes.
Its just a idea.
But thank you for your feedback.
The problem of a perk design like Last Chance is that solutions BHVR have already tested all are way too abusable (eg, slowed/stopped hook timer, self-unhook, relocating hook, etc). People who are aware it exists and coordinated will absolutely put the killer into situations it would be positively dumb to not facecamp (eg, multiple survivors around makes it dumb to chase one and give another an immediate free unhook when they have to come to the hook anyways). I'm not exactly sure about the wording you used, but if you mean as in when second phase would end (and thus sacrifice), then people will come just at that moment. If you mean for the entire second phase, then killer could exploit it by just leaving for a few moments just outside the radius and then stepping back in. So on and so forth for various other intervals.
Generally, the only non-abusable method that exists at the moment is to instead encourage others to do generators instead of coming for a suicidal unhook. Thus why a more passive option such as Kindred's killer aura reveal is better. Then, survivors know the killer is facecamping and can repair generators without wasting time to go unhook. Powering out generators is the main counter to facecamping.
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Last Chance is insanely beyond hyper busted. Scarecrow having the stun is excessive when them wasting time searching is effectively a stun. For Us All seems relatively fine.
Broken Risk is hyper killer dependent. On some it’d be busted. On others it’d be useless and literally throwing to run. All Ears is mostly useless because Iron Will will counter the injured sounds, and without it, they’re easy to hear. Also overlaps with Stridor. Unforgiving Heroism already exists as Forced Penance.
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Her attacks are basic attacks because her power isn't what she attacks with. Also that's a pretty huge nerf for no reason to a balanced killer.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741616#Comment_2741616
Oh, sure, but they're the only stats we have. And people claim the exact opposite of what the stats say without any kind of evidence to back it up, and that is taken in without any kind of scrutiny.
The only statistics we have suggest that killers are at an advantage.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741806#Comment_2741806
Ok so you will take the red rank percentage from a year a go and say things got better tell that to any deathslinger or Freddy main
Well, they did. Both of them got closer to 50% in their kill rates. Deathslinger might be under that line now, but it's especially funny that you mention Freddy since you, yourself, linked an image stating him to have the second highest kill rate at 59%.
Onto the camping and tunneling argument I never said it wasn't effective however the arguments against it usually are shown in one of two lights "camping and tunneling are not fun to deal with" and some form "camping and tunneling= no skill" I most likely am missing something in the middle but it's usually those two and like you have shown many CC in red rank and people on these forms admitted that at times they needed to camp and tunnel especially now due to how the perk meta is which yes is again more of a balancing issue along with the survivor perks being easily exploited such as bt being used as a barrier instead of an anti tunnel perk , DH's hit validation and COH atacking healing rates to the point where on xbox people can have 2 sec healing times but for the most part I never really see someone saying "let's remove camping and tunneling but include x or y to compensate it" it's usually just the first part which is why people including myself at times say it's unreasonable it's an argument where it's either "remove it or keep it" with nothing in between.
I have been saying for about as long as I've been on these forums that camping (I've been hesitant about tunnelling, but now feel fairly confident in saying that that applies too) is the lodestone of the game's balancing issues.
Here's the problem: You say that killers are forced to tunnel and camp in light of exploitative plays from survivors. But if you can still win perfectly fine by doing exactly that, then the game is balanced. It's not fun, but it's balanced. That was Otz's point: It's balanced in such a way that both sides have extremely un-fun strategies they can employ that are considerably more powerful than playing the game normally.
The issue that I'm trying to point out here is that there's a killer bias on the forums that makes it impossible to address this problem. Because while everyone's on board with removing BT collision, with nerfing CoH, with fixing DH's false positives (Which are supposedly getting fixed this PTB), with nerfing genrush and bully squads, try and suggest nerfing camping, tunnelling and slugging.
You will get so much backlash.
That's what I mean with that these forums want to maintain the current meta. Because without nerfing the OP, unfun strategies from killers, you can't reasonably remove the OP, unfun strategies from survivors.
Now onto NOED and honestly survivors have no excuse now thanks to boons and how bad totem spawns can be
Objectively: 'Doing bones' is the worst counter to NOED, unless you are in a 4 man swiffer, and even then it's highly questionable.
For your response for the question I asked about which side benefits more due to the bugs you only brought up bully squads but I was including perks and the map itself which right now most are survivor sided due to placement of pallets ,buildings and debris.
'It's survivor sided'
As evidenced by nothing.
You state they're survivor sided, but it's just as possible that they're neutral, and everything that isn't considered 'survivor sided' is actually killer sided.
Basically, there's four balance states...
1: Clean survivor - 50/50 - Clean killer
2: Dirty survivor - 80/20 - Clean killer
3: Clean survivor - 0/100 - Dirty killer
4 Dirty survivor - 50/50 - Dirty killer
What Otz said basically boils down to 'the game favours dirty play'.
But on these forums? Situation 2 is the absolute abomination that makes DbD borderline unplayable to killers.
Situation 3 is fine.
People just cling to the possibility that the game is survivor sided. Even though Otz can handicap himself with a blank loadout and wait 30 seconds to start, even though other streamers joined him on the experiment and mostly reproduced his results, even though there were camping experiments that showed excessively high kill rate returns, people still insist on stating that the game is survivor sided.
'But the game's only killer sided when we camp/tunnel/slug'
Then as long as those tactics exist and are available, the game is killer sided. You choosing to play sub-optimal has no bearing on the balance, right?
That's why people think it's a reasonable rebuttal to say 'bring small game, 4head' in response to NOED complaints.
I have been advocating for ages now for a mutual nerf: Slower gens, weakened genrushing, but in exchange, camping, tunnelling and slugging MUST be kneecapped. The game needs to forcibly steer towards a meta that makes the most optimal strategy NOT the most unfun one.
No bully squads (Innate lightborn after a flashlight save, maybe change sabotage as well, removal of map offerings)
No genrush (Slower solo speed with compensatory increased co-op speed so fastest gen speed =/= safest gen progress, better gen regression, removal of BNP)
No camping (Survivors teleport to distant hook when progressing to struggle state from first hook)
No tunnelling (Innate DS, disabled post gen 5)
No slugging (Survivors can crawl to a generator and once there, pick themselves up after fully recovering and performing a 15+ second standing-up animation)
As long as killers don't want to give up their OP strategies, you can't make survivors give up their own.
That's a lot of words to ignore that tournaments need massive amounts of restrictions and bans on what survivors can bring just to try and equalize it out remotely, as well as playing on preselected maps that lean in the killer's favor anywhere from moderately to heavily.
Also ignoring that BHVR themselves is aiming for 60% kill rate.
Otz is not a good example. He has nearly 8000 hours and is extremely good compared to the average, and we all know how unreliable MMR is.
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I’d rather the piece of garbage creator doesn’t get money from a FNAF chapter.
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@Moonman157 said:
can someone tell me how the hell can two opposing sides both play 100% perfectly?
No one plays perfectly ever.
That said, you can play well and go down without making mistakes. This is what mindgames are about. You did everything as you’re supposed to, but lost the mindgame, which is different from making a mistake like looping a tile the wrong way. And same vice versa. Playing killer well but ending up making some wrong reads.
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@Advorsus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742144#Comment_2742144
There weren't a lot of restrictions in the tournament, in fact it was a lot less than any other tournament that had been ran. And it still proves my point. As do the other videos which you keep ignoring.
So you're saying that it's survivor sided at the top tier of play, but you're nowhere near that tier. So it's not survivor sided for you, right? And then there's a bunch of top tier killers who made videos, showing about a 3k average for each of them across the board, multiple people. So it's not survivor sided for them either.
But you said it's because they don't go against the best players all the time? So who does? If the best killers and players in the world aren't going against the best survivors in the world every single game, who is???
??? It literally used the exact standard tournament restrictions.
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@Advorsus said:
It's obviously not. I've given multiple examples of it not being survivor sided. What with the tournament of the best players, which by the way would be considered the highest level of play, as well as the games played by multiple people, all of which are at the highest level of play, both with and without perks, and they all say pretty much the same thing. And your only evidence is saying, "But it is".
This tournament you cited has literally dozens of restrictions and hard restricts survivors in multiple aspects and even harder against weaker killers, as is the standard for tournaments. You should look at the stuff you cite and not push a point your own evidence disproves.
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Also, never said I’m a pro. I have a lot of room to improve. The game is survivor sided at extremely high levels of play most people won’t play at ever. For most average players including me, it’s not relevant. But the game itself is undeniably survivor sided when you look higher.
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@Advorsus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742131#Comment_2742131
Because I said spooky instead of tofu?? It was literally the most recent tournament..
Geez dude I can see why you're saying it's survivor sided, you need all the help you can get.
Once again, was literally just a post that maybe you should look at self improving instead of blaming game balance.
And y'all went, "Me no need get better, me pro, unbalanced game, why I lose all time. "
That’s a really weird way of saying “Sorry, I cited the wrong thing which ended up disproving my argument.”
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@Advorsus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742088#Comment_2742088
It was literally the tournament that spooky just commented for. He and quite a few other streamers actually commented about how even the tournament actually was.
And no, that's simply not true. If played perfectly by both sides, without any perks or add-ons, completely even, the killer would eventually catch any survivor due to killers being faster and have the ability to get faster over time.
The difference in games and what people think is an unbalance of power, is actually usually a difference in skill.
Moving the goalposts now, are we?
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The tournament you cited literally disproved your own point.
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@Ravenlord4711 said:
So please explain a situation where the killer can catch a survivor with no mistakes in either side. Remember running into a dead zone counts as a mistake.
You should probably rephrase your question to clarify catching them in a timeframe that makes it worth it. Technically, if you had infinite time (eg, no one else was doing generators at all), you could go through every single resource in the entire map till you eventually catch up. Realistically, against a very good team, spending over 30s to down a healthy player is a net time loss and thus a lost chase normally even if you down them cause too much time spent.
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@Advorsus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742082#Comment_2742082
Well no, if I was going just by Otz's video I would've just said it's killer sided, because he averaged over 3 kills per game and won 9 out of 10 times, that'd be completely unbalanced.
You are very conveniently ignoring that he got those kills because the survivors in those videos were complete morons that voluntarily suicided to a camping killer. Furthermore that MMR doesn't give accurate matches at all, least of all for someone like Otz with nearly 8000 hours.
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@Advorsus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742073#Comment_2742073
That's actually not true. A recent tournament showed that... Highest level survivors and killers, all SWFs, both sides allowed to bring whatever they want. And it was actually 50/50 most of the time with killers doing surprisingly well. Even some B and C tier killers like wraith and Reworked gunslinger doing surprisingly well.
So I mean, the evidence is kinda there
Um. No. First of all, out of the 30 matches, 27 of them were S-tier killers. The other 3 were A-tiers (Pinhead, Oni, Huntress). Pinhead and Oni got completely humiliated. Spirit was a joke in all but 1 of her 4 matches. Even Nurse lost the majority of her matches. Blight and Huntress were the only two that did good, and Huntress only played one single match, which is too small for any conclusions. Furthermore, that tournament was guesswork-influenced because people would try and preemptively guess what the other is picking and try to counter it. Sometimes they guessed right, and so they usually won. Sometimes they guessed wrong, and thus usually lost.
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Disrespect over choice of in-game character is incredibly inane and petty.
I respect people who've mastered very difficult characters additionally so (eg, Pinhead, Nurse, Blight, etc).
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It's only survivor sided at hyper high levels of play, which basically nobody ever will face. Otherwise, it's pretty even.
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Nurse as the best, Blight as second best.
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@Minecraft said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740685#Comment_2740685
yes, and huntress averaged 3 with even blight doing better than nurse. doesn't mean that nurse is any worse than those 2 or in any way balanced.
if anything it just goes to show how uncompetitive the game is
I mean, in actual restricted tournaments to restrict busted things from either side, she averages out to 2 kills, 2 escapes.
Huntress played literally 1 single match in the no-holds-barred tournament. That is not conclusive data at all.
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@BadLooperQ said:
I hate blight and how unpredictable he is so whatever incoming nerf is welcome...
Name checks out.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741903#Comment_2741903
I still think Blight is a far harder killer to master than her due to needing to memorize the collision of virtually every object in every map. I'd also put Pinhead as more difficult to use despite getting not even a quarter the power Nurse has, which has been a big complaint for Pinhead. Bad reward for the effort needed.
Nurse has to learn blink collisions as well, there are multiple areas with inconsistent blink hitboxes that prevent Nurse from blinking accurately through certain objects. Pinhead's difficulty is also partially due to just not having mobility, and his main chase tool being RNG because you can break your own chains, they can spawn in useless locations, etc. I do agree Pinhead needs certain buffs.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741891#Comment_2741891
I don't see the entitlement here.
People are losing a set of really cool, really unique cosmetics because a handful of butt turkeys decided to be butt turkeys. For compensation, they are being offered a pretty measly sum of shards. This reminds me of the Caps controversy from that terrible Fallout MMO.
You didn't spend money for the masks. Why would they give you a real-life money currency back? And 1600 at that? People are out of their minds.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
People convinced others that she requires you to spend 5000 hours with monks in Tibet before you can even get a killer with her, thus her strength is fine. Though in honesty I personally think she's easier than several killers released over the past two years.
In true honesty it's that there isn't much way to nerf her to the point she's not good anymore (generally the intent of DBD nerfs) without making her the worst killer in the game by a large margin. What are you going to nerf about her even? Also why must it always be nerfs? Why not BUFF things to her strength? And there isn't a huge outcry to have her nerfed because a bad nurse is a joke, and not enough people actually face the good nurses to care. Their data also shows she has a horrible kill rate so if anything, she needs a buff going by the devs logic.
Her difficulty floor is from learning the muscle memory for her power. Her ceiling, and what makes her as strong as she is, is the difficulty in learning how best to apply the power to the map/chase, and for bettering your mindgames and fakes and reads against people that know how to play against Nurse. The ceiling is a relatively slow-growing one, as you continue to meet better and better players and have to better yourself to match.
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The entitlement is beyond delusional.
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@ElizaSteph said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740740#Comment_2740740
This makes a lot more sense when you say it like that, I appreciate all your advice and tips, thanks a lot! :)
Furthermore, SBMM (MMR) exacerbates this because of how poorly it does at matching even-skilled players together. When one side is a lot better than the other, it's a lot more noticeable on a killer like Nurse, because she is one of the truest representations of killer skill versus player skill (for the person being chased) put to the test. Even with uneven matches, weaker killers cannot take advantage of it to the same extent, which becomes "normalized" when it's actually most killers end up quite subpar against really high levels of play.
Since learning Nurse takes a ton of investment and skill and player/map knowledge, on average, a good Nurse player will be a lot more skilled than a good player for a regular M1, for instance, since the Nurse needs to learn a lot more, compared to killers with better base movespeeds or simpler abilities. Other killers can rely on their movespeeds to try and brute force a loop which works against survivors that are not that good. However, Nurse is slower than survivors, so her power is the only way to land any hits if the survivors don't just straight up walk into you when you're not even blinking. The skill floor itself to approach Nurse is much higher than other killers, which leads to this mismatch.
Also, just as a disclaimer, a lot of this applies to the higher end of skilled players. The differences become most acutely noticeable as player skill increases higher and higher. But since there are not many people at that level of skill, the chances highly skilled players will get highly opponents is not that likely, which further makes it seem "overbearing" when that's just to be expected. Think about it this way. If someone in say, the top 10,000 chess players in the world went against someone who doesn't even have the capability of reaching nationals, the result should be obvious, right? Or a nationals player going against someone that just won some random school's chess tournament? It's the same for this.
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@KateMain86 said:
I think if survivors are left on the ground for too long they should heal over time and be able to pick themselves up without having to use a perk. Also yes I agree the option to give up in the dying state should be a thing. I've had way too many matches where the killer left the 3rd on the ground with 3+ gens up just to find the 4th. Its matches like that where you literally don't blame people for d/cing.
No.
Also no, that is not an excuse for DCing.
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@[Deleted User] said:
No idea. A good Blight will never lose a game with Alchemist's Ring. It's a ridiculous add on. Kind of like giving a good Nurse 3 blinks. They don't balance around the top end though, so add ons like those slip through the cracks
Eh. If it’s equally really good survivor team, he’d likely lose on a map like Lery’s.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741276#Comment_2741276
Where did they say that? They've always said they aim for 50%.
In streams? Also they've very specifically said they aim for ~50% escape rate, but not 50% kill rate as killer because that is not how the calculations work. As well as also saying before they aim for 2 kills and a few more hooks.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741267#Comment_2741267
I hear this all the time, "taking stats out of context". How is that relevant to this at all? Because literally the point is that killers win more often than not. Unless you're saying the stats are faked it pretty much proves that killers win more and that's all I care about. Stop making stuff up that discredits the stats.
They've literally said their target killrate was 60% average. Which every single killer fell below average-wise when counting the entire playerbase, which is what actually matters to them. They don't want to balance around just specifically one group because that leaves the others in the dust lmao. Maybe actually pay attention.
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Devs don't like posting stats because they know morons are going to take it out of context in one direction or another.
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Blight is the second most balanced and well-designed killer in the game. So yeah.
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Do people not realize the reason perks like those are not basekit is because you are not supposed to have a basekit counter to those strategies?
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@White_Jesus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739491#Comment_2739491
I would argue that if a player wanted to suicide, then there isn't much to stop them from doing so. I don't think that we should balance features around the players that negatively impact the community, but rather the players that genuinely want to play the game. Ultimately, whether this feature is added or not, players will continue to suicide in matches regardless. So, the only difference is that the players that have already decided to suicide would be able to do so a few seconds more quickly.
Also, if BHVR did determine which features should be added or removed based on the ability to use them in a negative way, then very few features would remain. We wouldn't be given the opportunity to escape on hooks, there wouldn't be skill checks in phase 2 on hooks, we wouldn't be allowed to drop every pallet on the map, we wouldn't have player collision that allows you to block teamates, etc.
In case you weren't aware, hook suicide mechanic exists exclusively because BHVR tested removing it, and people would sandbag instead. BHVR (reasonably) viewed someone essentially quitting out less bad than someone staying and actively ruining it even harder for the others.
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@ElizaSteph said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740695#Comment_2740695
Oh yeah I’m sorry, I figured. I was referring to chase because of her ability to bypass walls, windows, and pallets gives her a lot more distance in a chase as opposed to other killers like hillbilly and blight that still have obstacles. I get that she’s a really mindgame based killer and that mindgaming goes both ways, I just also think that the devs added vaults and pallets because they knew survivors couldn’t rely solely on mind games as eventually killer ability, increased based speed, and or distance closing capability would outmatch them at some point without obstacles like that.
That’s how I understood the game and was why I figured we had those things in the first place. But it’s fair to say maybe with nurse I should try and think differently. It’s just kind of tough when it seems like the devs made killers have to follow certain rules (like having to either break or go around pallets, and not being able to travel through solid objects) all while giving survivors specific tools to use in order to make it more balanced. Then they designed a killer that goes against that and made it all about mind games alone. If mind games weren’t enough counter for the devs to be considered fair, it’s difficult to understand why it’s fair for that to be the result of going against a nurse yk? Because once she’s skilled enough, recovering from a miss isn’t very hard as you don’t make much distance from a whiff or miss, and you can’t get distance from her breaking a pallet because she doesn’t have to.
I didn’t mean for this thread to be Survivor main whine or anything and I hope it didn’t seem like that, I just figured that with a killer so many people have a problem with countering there would be a nerf at some point, but after reading around I guess that would call for a rework which would be really lame and a lot of work.
Don't worry, it didn't come off as whining to me. Was just originally confused why there was a second thread. Hope I helped answer your questions. And yes, she makes chase dynamic drastically different from other killers. It becomes very heavily mind-game oriented. Who can make the better read? Who can throw off the other person's reads? Who can adapt better? So on and so forth. Which boils it down to pure skill. Nurse missing a blink attack is quite punishing basekit (aka, not using double recharge). Feel free to ask if you have any other questions.
Also, another reason people have a weird perspective of Nurse is because she does what a killer should be able to do. You take most regular killers to strong tile setups and you can essentially guarantee a won chase 9/10 times. (By won, I don't mean escaping, I mean buying enough time to be worth it, which is ~30 seconds for downing a healthy person). This ends up with regular M1s particularly just auto-losing at very strong tile setups because they are just straight up not capable of dealing with it, when playing at high enough level where people will take advantage of that to the extreme. (Not that it's wrong for the survivors to do that, this is more just a map/tile weighting issue). In other words, it's not that Nurse is punished "too little", but that other killers are comparatively punished far too hard. Does that make sense?
Also hope the earlier mention of statistics is sort of reassuring, in that Nurse still ends up evenly matched regardless assuming equal levels of skill.