SuperCop
SuperCop
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- SuperCop
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658971#Comment_3658971
Of course you're being deliberately targeted, that's the best way to win.
What's better for the killer a 3v1 or a 4v1?
Chasing a full health survivor or an injured one?
Getting someone to death hook and then dead or getting a 2nd person to 2nd hook and then a third?
It cannot be obvious griefing when it's also the best way to win the game. You have absolutely no way to know if the killer is doing it just because they want to win or to be "toxic" unless they tell you. There's plenty of things that are obviously toxic like hook hitting, T-bagging, gate stalling and ect. because they have absolutely zero competitive advantage. Their sole purpose is to be a donkey to another player.
Tunneling is not one of them.
I would literally rather be hit on hook repeatedly than me or someone else be targeted and eliminated from the start of the match.
There's no excuse for tunneling at 5 gens. If you have to stoop that low to "win" as killer, then you're not good.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658962#Comment_3658962
You're not getting "griefed" just because you're losing and you don't like how you're losing.
As long as it remains the best or even a strong strategy, you cannot make that argument unless the killer tells you that they did it intentionally to bother you.
Tunneling needs to be made weak and spreading hooks needs to be made strong. Then the only reason someone would tunnel is because they want to bother you.
You know very well it isn't simply losing. It's being deliberately targeted and it doesn't matter if you communicate or not. There are plenty other games where griefing occurs without communication even happening between the 2 but it's obvious when it happens. Specifically when someone targets you.
It's a dirty move to tunnel like that early on in the match to just eliminate someone quickly for EZ, lazy win at the expense of another person.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658952#Comment_3658952
Sure its possible to win without tunneling.
Especially if that's how you normally play so your MMR is at the level where you can do so and stand a chance. As I am.
That doesn't change anything I said.
If you want your best shot at winning, be it 3k or 4K, you tunnel. That's it, that's the whole reason. Unless something changes that killers will tunnel and that should be expected.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658955#Comment_3658955
You're asking for punishment, not for spreading hooks to be made the better, strong option. 2 different things.
Yes, because you're targeting one specific person at the beginning of the match and killing them asap at 5 gens, ruining things for them. It's akin to griefing.
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@BugReporterOnly said:
The problem is going back to hook and tunneling off hook. They need to forget the 2v8 gamemode and use the mechanic in normal gamemode and make the hooks like the Cage of Aattonment but with more random spawning across the map. Also like the Cage of Attonmemt if they are near by it should move it again and we should have a small amount of struggle or time given back to us.
I said something similar earlier. Why I wish devs would remove hook information from killers. They shouldn't be informed when survivors are unhooked.
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@MrPenguin said:
"Stop trying to win!"
Unfortunately tunneling is the strongest strategy so it should be expected that the players will do it.
I understand it sucks, I understand it's not fun, but it's also the killers best shot at winning.
Are we also going to punish survivors for splitting on gens? Since that's also their best strategy? Idk about you but that sounds silly to me to punish players just for using the strongest playstyle they have access to.
You shouldn't be asking killers to stop tunneling you should be asking the devs to make the strongest strategy spreading hooks instead. Because right now it's not.
Then we can punish tunneling if it's still necessary to do so.
Alternatively you can ask both killers and survivors to play chill instead of just 1 side. Killers stop tunneling and survivors stop splitting on gens (and no Prove Thyself either).
Also, I'm not asking killers to stop, they won't. I'm asking the devs to fix it. Kinda why I'm posting here.
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@MrPenguin said:
"Stop trying to win!"
Unfortunately tunneling is the strongest strategy so it should be expected that the players will do it.
I understand it sucks, I understand it's not fun, but it's also the killers best shot at winning.
Are we also going to punish survivors for splitting on gens? Since that's also their best strategy? Idk about you but that sounds silly to me to punish players just for using the strongest playstyle they have access to.
You shouldn't be asking killers to stop tunneling you should be asking the devs to make the strongest strategy spreading hooks instead. Because right now it's not.
Then we can punish tunneling if it's still necessary to do so.
Alternatively you can ask both killers and survivors to play chill instead of just 1 side. Killers stop tunneling and survivors stop splitting on gens (and no Prove Thyself either).
I just got a 3k with Knight, a killer I barely know how to use and let 4th survivor get hatch and I did not have to camp or tunnel in order to do so.
I have already agreed gen boosts are an issue, but make no mistake tunneling someone out quickly at 5 gens is worse than being genrushed as a killer cause at least you get to play longer as killer, and your BP doesn't suffer like a survivor's does from early tunneling.
I also think killer players are often way too obsessed with getting a full 4k. Especially since the average intended by developers is 2k.
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658890#Comment_3658890
There seems to be a fundamental difference, so you should understand the game mechanism.
This game brings survivor hook progress and sacrifice instead of time limit.
The killer makes it faster, and the survivor is slow. If there is a game negotiations, survivors will gradually run out as a whole.
Survivors should not be chased forever, nor do you refuse to leave. Before that happens, it is a game for survivors to aim to escape.
Still punishes a repeated action though, doesn't it and in the killer's favor? So killers via tunneling are repeatedly hooking the same survivor right after unhook so that should be blocked.
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I can respect that. Like I understood gen speeds stress out killers n used to back them since I played, even almost mained killer myself. So I understood some tunneling after losing a few Gens but a lot of killers now just hard tunnel, 5 gens, straight out the gate. It's getting ridiculous needs to be fixed *along with* gen speed boosts.
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@xltechno said:
no. The entity blocks the window because the chase does not end forever.
Once there was a map design, I tried to delete the development once if I didn't need Bloodlust, but I immediately withdrawn. The players smiled bitterly, saying they didn't do it.
This game needs a tactic for killers to leave survivors as soon as possible and end quickly without chase. Tunnel acts are one of them, but tunnels are not strong at all so that tactics are useless alone.
Yeah? So they entity can also block hooks to stop tunneling.
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@leviivel said:
it feels like a third of my matches recently have had a DC or 2 because my teammates went down too quickly or if I’m playing a killer people “don’t like” (Skull Merchant, Knight, Nemesis, few others) and I down them too quickly they DC.
i constantly hear the argument of “I paid for the game, if I’m not enjoying it, I am allowed to DC.” Which would seem like a fine argument in other games with larger lobbies, but in DBD with there only being 5 people in a lobby, a single DC can ruin the experience for everyone. other people paid for this aswell.
now, if you have a phobia and you have to DC, that’s excusable and BHVR definitely needs to add something to counter this like an option of changing sound, model tweaks, removal of textures. (Not preventing you from queuing against them cuz otherwise it would create abysmal queue times for certain characters).
but other than those 2 arguments, there’s never anything else other than: “my internet went out, so I shouldn’t get a penalty” which yeah, fair also, but is there really any other argument?
without DC penalties, casual players trying to learn new killers that others despise would make the game abysmal to play for them. People would DC the moment they get downed, killers will DC at the slightest inconvenience, the whole game would crumble without DC penalties.
incase you’re wondering, I think players should be free to DC without penalty after about 20+ minutes have passed.
DC penalties are fine if it's a few minutes but it's ridiculous when it becomes hours especially if it's someone getting kicked off by the game. You already lose BP which is punishment enough and sometimes there's a good reason to DC if players are being toxic. You should not be forced to endure griefing.
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@slipttees said:
Place a hole outside the basement to be used to enter it thus avoiding the killer's body blocking the stairs. So the staircase being a little wider would help!
Thanks
I felt this. Not only when killers body block but you also can't run out with your teammate which is ridiculous since stairs look wide enough for 2 ppl. They just need to widen the invisible walls they apparently have in that spot.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
Slugging is fine the way it is. Killer don't normally slug, unless certain scenarios and situations call for it.
Like for example, I chase Survivor A. Down them, and happen to spot Survivor B with a flashlights trying to be sneaky with their saves. That is perfect reasonable situation, in which slugging is fine as it is not safe to pick up, especially if they are out in the open or if the down Survivor is on top of a pallet.
Another scenario, that most Survivors tend to complain alot about, rare but does happen frequently if the Killer encounter a bully squad or coordinate swfs. The Survivor are grouping up and literally waiting or tempting to find every opportunity to flashlight blind, pallet save, or even lockers stun with Head On. In these types of situations, Attempting to pickup and hook a Survivor is very difficult and pretty much impossible and just feeding Survivor's cocky ego of bullying the killer by any means for a "good time~"
Of course, the killer is a solo player and has no teammates to fall back to and has the power to do whatever is absolutely necessary to win; even if it means playing "unfairly" and toxic to survivors in order to keep them down & keep them at bay; to ensure they can pick them up safely and have a regular match. Rarely would a killer be interested in going for a 4k slug fest kill and have everyone bleed on the ground intentionally, unless no hooks are even close by.
By nerfing Slugging, and making Unbreakable basekit (literally the best recovery perk in the game), like we had in that one PTB testing which showcase how very disastrous this change maded to the game. It made Bully squads and all recovery base perks ridiculous OP and made pick up and hooking nearly impossible. You have Survivors stacking Boil Over, Flip-Flop, Power Struggle, Unbreakable, etc. And literally intentionally getting slug in conventional pallet spawns or open areas like dead dog sallon, basically making themselves easy to get saved by their fellow teammates or do it themselves by dropping pallet with power struggle or getting off with boil over and flip Flop. Basically, killers cannot hook as many Survivors and are more likely forced to bleed them out more or relie on the 4k slug mori system that was implemented in the PTB to win. It made some killers that relie on their power to slug like Oni, Twins, etc. Horrible to play.
You can try to create new ideas to counter Slugging all you want, but it not a easy task considering that it is necessary evil tactic the Killer players need, as a method to apply map pressure in the game. And if by chance, the devs do have a good plan to nerf slugging, they absolutely need to nerf Generators repair speeds or do something huge to give killer map pressure without boring Survivors bleeding on the ground half the time.
I'm sorry but the part where you said killers normally slug for e reason isn't true. Now, *you* may play that way but there are killers who go out of the way to slug whole team either for easy 4k, or worse, to watch everyone bleed out. It's not ok.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639718#Comment_3639718
I understand but any other alternative would likely be abused. If it's a ''manual death'' then pissed off survivors will suicide on first down. If it is ability to stand up on own, then it will be difficult to balance and will lead to many other problems.
That's why it should only activate if all team members are down.
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@Adrien said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/405585/i-hate-wraith
This section is about feedbacks and suggestions on game feature, not just players playstyle or profile.
Do you have any suggestion on how to balance Wraith or tunneling ?
My feedback was basically that it's wayyyy to easy for Wraith to tunnel. Camp, even. That needs to change and hard tunneling, too. Not sure what to suggest regarding Wraith's power, though. I think he's just too fast and cloaks so he can make it seem like he's gone, possibly looking for other survs when he's not, and after unhook, can chase recently unhooked survivor rapidly while still cloaked then quickly uncloak/down before they even get a chance to heal.
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@Skillfulstone said:
If it makes you feel better, it's not specific to Wraith, 7.5.0 made tunnelling even worse for basically every weaker/M1 Killer except the powerhouses since they never really needed slowdown to begin with. The STBFL nerf also really didn't help in that regard.
God I'm gonna have so much editing to do if BHVR fixes the Anti-3-gen system by making it only trigger at the last gen XD
Thanks. But yeah. Changing STBFL was so unnecessary imo. And people did predict it would make killer's behavior even worse. After the update, I must say it has gotten worse.
They should revert it back and if they *must* nerf anything they should be very careful bout it so as to not ruin perks. Don't change the function just dial back the power a tiny bit.
They should also put bp back on bbq again so killers are incentivised to target different ppl.
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@TieBreaker said:
Wraith is favoured by less experienced players as he has the lowest skill floor of the cast whilst being plenty strong enough to destroy survivors of average skill. Less experienced players tend to get tilted fast. That's why you see so many Wraiths camping, tunneling and being toxic to survivors. They usually aren't very good at the game and either start the match in a bad mood, or begin malding after a chase has lasted more than 15 seconds.
This isn't new though, as people have been asking for years why Wraith players are so unpleasant lmao.
Yeah. Definitely a stereotype that's warranted.
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I have all those. I don't like that DS only works once and while I love Resurgence, Sloppy Butcher ruins it completely atm. Personally I like OTR with Sprint Burst. Forces them to chase me down for that hit. Unfortunately I don't have those maxxed out on Nick, yet. On Jill I do. Boil Over makes me more a pain to carry, too.
Thanks for the help though. Trying to get better at looping especially for situations like that so I waste the tunnelers time, make em lose.
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@mikewelk said:
That's the issue with tunneling, some killers can do it better than others. The root cause of you hating Wraith is their tunneling potential and that's justified completely, it definitely creates tedious games. Luckily they aren't too overpowered, so if you can just get to a decent area you can buy some time for your team and do your best. It's bad, I know, but it's all you can do without any reliable anti-tunnel in this economy.
I did my best. Truly. When I was death hook I was furious. Wasted as much time as i could, slamming pallets. Think I stunned him once, even. Made quick turns. He eventually caught up n mori'd me, though.
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@epi said:
There should be some sort of penalty for killers who refuse to pick up any survivors when EVERYONE is down. Just makes the game long for no reason.
It should most definitely be considered griefing.
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@ChaosWam said:
Lately I've been pairing reactive healing with self care, botony and either bite the bullet or mettle of man, depending on how I want to play. It's incredibly useful in terms of speeding up self care if you know how to space yourself near other chases and I've gotten a few surprise flashlights from healing myself up close by.
It is nice when RH goes off while you're healing.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650089#Comment_3650089
You always have to interrupt the heal to get value out of Haemorrhage...
So it's ok to get value from SB but not Resurgence/RH? It's ok for SB to counter RH/Resurgence but not for those 2 perks to slightly counter SB?
That sounds incredibly one-sided.
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@Seraphor said:
Sloppy Butcher is supposed to be a counter to perks like this, just as things like Distortion and Blindness are counters to aura perks. "Ensuring you get value" defeats the point, that's like saying Fogwise should bypass Blindness to ensure value against Mindbreaker.
What should change however is that Haemorrhage should reduce your health slower, it doesn't need to be 99 to 0 in 3 seconds, it could be much slower and still be effective, as it's mostly used to deny medkits. Slower health drain means you can work around it by initiating healing sooner, and limiting your losses.
I think my suggestion is fine especially since it would fix the problem without having to nerf the killer perk.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Yeah, thats my experience too, but when i say it on this forum im told that im exaggerating, and that its really not that bad as i make it sound.
Nah. I'll even say it with y'all. It's getting out of hand as of late. I play both sides tho I main Surv now cause killer is stressful. Normally I'd stick up for killers but the way they're playing now is ridiculous.
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@Emeal said:
I align with the view that the current Anti-Face-Camp System has altered camping gameplay. While I've continued employing my Proxy Gameplay style, some Killers who previously face-camped have adopted a new strategy, standing just outside the Camp Meter range and ready to tunnel the unhooked player immediately. Although bHVR took a step against face-camping, the shift hasn't resulted in a large substantial change. (tho changes has been happening.)
Now is the time to encourage bHVR to take additional steps to address these new strategies more effectively. In a comprehensive post I've made on this topic (which might be overwhelming to read), I propose that instead of significantly buffing the range of the Anti-Face-Camp System, there are alternative actions that can be monitored to incur camp meter charges. These include:
- If the Killer is observing the hooked survivor (in their field of view).
- If the Killer is not moving (to a degree).
- If the Killer is moving far away from the hooked survivor.
Implementing tracking for these actions and allowing charges to be incurred can discourage the new strategies that have emerged. My reasoning is that Killers should not merely stand outside the Camp Meter range and stare at the Survivor; their vision should be focused on locating new survivors, and they should remain active rather than standing still. Moreover, they should be moving away from the hook. While bHVR may address tunneling more comprehensively later, it's crucial to tackle the evolving strategies resulting from the Anti-Face-Camping patch first. As an additional suggestion, having the Camp Meter full should enable all Anti-tunneling perks for free use, alongside their intended tunnel use.
I hope bHVR addresses these emerging strategies promptly, preventing them from becoming the new norm. These tactics are just as frustrating and unfair as the ones the recent changes aimed to address. if these new strategies are just a minor problem, it might be still worthwhile to nip the in the bud to ensure the new game evolution better.
Stay vigilant bHVR, and thank you for taking the time to read this.
That's a pretty solid idea. We don't want the range to go too far or have it be abused by survivors, either. Which I'm afraid would happen if it's not carefully done.
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@Astel said:
SB basekit? Did I understand correctly?
About noise notification, killers will be able to know whether survivor is unhooked or not by icon anyway
Temporary sprint that works right after getting off hook. This should only be triggered if you have to unhook yourself. That way you can get away from the camper trying to tunnel.
I think hook information should be hidden from the killer, then. It would be fine if killers used it to go after the rescuer but far too often they use it to tunnel.
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Ok. Thanks.
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I understand there are perks to shrink radius, but they are, from my understanding, supposed to just make the terror radius smaller. Not make it go away completely.
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So far Myers and Chucky had this issue. Myers didn't even have a red stain in front either. I only remember one map and it was dark, outdoors but with a big building in the middle, that was w/ Myers.
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I think they need to just tone him down a little but don't overnerf him. But, yeah he's just too much right now. Comes at you out of nowhere, no time to heal after hook or even run for that matter. And many play him in away that abuses his power. Like slug, easy 4k for example.