Seraphor
Seraphor
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3479196#Comment_3479196
Hag? Her shoes addon is meme in my opinion. It makes her a Clown basically.
Noone plays her anyway.
Killers who mainly suffer on MFT: Doctor, Legion, Deathslinger.
But to some extent it is good against any M1 killer.
Of course Ghost face don't care about it. He has two ways how to counter it. Exposed and Stealth.
I am not surprised my Oni games are not affected. I don't mind them staying injured and can insta down...
But I used to be Legion main, I can't be bothered playing him while MFT is played this much. I basically replaced Legion with Skully.
So Hag moving 3% faster than any other killer permanently isn't an issue but survivors is?
Legion's frenzy is 130% movement speed, I don't think 103% makes a difference.
Deathslinger has range. Are you serious? You don't need to catch up, you aim and shoot.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3479187#Comment_3479187
That would work only on some deadzone gens, or indoor maps. This simply doesn't work if there is any loop nearby.
Best option how to counter MFT is to ignore that survivor and tunnel weak link. MFT is not that big issue with 3 survivors.
If all survivors have MFT, then you better use good killer...
Like I said, I haven't noticed an issue, with Ghostface or Pig. But then stealth killers are good at out positioning survivors. One of the problems is people think "good killers" only includes Nurse and Blight".
What about Hag? What about her new Waterlogged Shoe? It gives her permanent 118% movement speed, that's essentially killer MFT, but without the need to get injured first. What's your opinion on that?
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3479174#Comment_3479174
I wouldn't want to see any movement speed perks, you are simply asking for infinites.
Any perk that give permanent movement speed should be highly limited.
I don't care about classic exhaustion perks. Those are limited and I can easily drop a chase for them to lose any value. You can't do that against MFT.
You can always drop chase, go for someone else, and then catch the MFT player off guard and out positioned later. If you don't want to use bloodlust that is. Even tier 1 bloodlust completely negates MFT, that's after 15 seconds.
But yes I'd love more killer speed perks. I need more options for my GoKart Ghostface please.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3476174#Comment_3476174
Why not simple limit how long you get movement speed bonus since time you get injured.
You gain 3% movement speed bonus for 30 seconds after each time you get injured.
It would give this perk a counter play and just try hit&run on survivors you notice this perk.
That sounds like a death sentence for this perk, and it's not as if you need to worry about MFT after 30 seconds anyway because you'll have bloodlust by then.
One of the issues that I can recognise with MFT, is that if survivors start running early, they can delay the start of the chase, and thereby delay bloodlust. Only a few seconds, but it's a delay nonetheless, added onto an already longer chase. So maybe a healthy change could be that it only triggers while in a chase to prevent this.
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This would be a neat effect for a new locker related perk. Maybe something like:
You see the yellow aura of lockers with 16 meters. Occupied lockers are shown in white. While inside a locker, you are still able to see any auras you would typically see within 16 meters.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3479163#Comment_3479163
Really? That's how it works?
Object of Obsession had low escape rates...
Same for CoH.
It's an issue if you look at perk -> escape rate per survivor, not a team.
I thought people learned statistics are tool for balancing, but not main factor... Why we know it doesn't work? Nurse has lowest kill rate and Pig one of highest kill rates. It makes sense why it is this way, it doesn't mean Nurse need buff and Pig nerf (another man, they failed at this).
I don't have any issues with MFT, as survivor or killer (I play M1 killers, mostly Ghostface and Pig). Is moving faster than normal a benefit to survivors? Of course, but it's nowhere near as strong as actual exhaustion perks. And I expect that'll be validate by the fact it doesn't get any significant nerfs.
At most, I can see it being dropped to 2% somehow. Purely because it seems odd that Dark Theory, a more restricted haste effect, has a lower value. So from a theory crafting perspective I think they should swap values. But it's not the end of the world if they don't.
I'd much rather killers get another speed increasing perk than get rid of MFT.
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Just remember, if it doesn't get nerfed, it's because it doesn't actually inflate survival rates, which means it's not actually a problem.
Hope you accept the objective truth whatever it turns out to be.
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Agreed
@Seraphor said:
With BBQ and WGLF having lost their substantial bloodpoint bonuses last year, and now continuing the trend with Prove Thyself, I think the way we earn Bloodpoint needs to be re-evaluated.
While these changes are the right course, they also provided something beyond merely inflating bloodpoint gains; they gave players a secondary objective to strive for in order to boost their bloodpoints, which changes the way people play.
Moreover, there is still a significant discrepancy between Killer and Survivor bloodpoint accrual, when Killers are guaranteed to be present in a match as long as it lasts, yet Survivors can be eliminated early on before having achieved anything, particularly via camping and tunnelling.
So rather than simply inflating general bloodpoint rates via Bloodhunts and the like, or giving us BP dump codes, I think we need a more nuanced approach, one that can better replicate the effects of these old perk bonuses.
Secondary Objectives
Both BBQ and WGLF were significant for changing player strategy, and generally in a healthy way (although it could be said that WGLF influenced survivors to 'throw the game' sometimes). In general, they promoted spreading hooks, and taking risks to save other survivors. These could be replicated by providing additional bonus bloodpoint scores:
- 500 BP bonus score for the first four of; Hook Rescues, Health states of other survivors healed, Protection Hits performed per game. In the Altruism category.
- 500 BP bonus score for the first time you complete a generator repair per game. In the Objectives category.
- 500 BP bonus score for the first time each unique survivor is hooked per game. In the Sacrifice category.
These would replicate the bonuses from these perks on a smaller scale, provide up to 2000/2500 BP in total for these healthy playstyles, and encourage survivors to diversify their play style and take actions in each category.
Equalising Survivor/Killer discrepancy
In addition to being a massive demoraliser for survivors who are eliminated early for any reason, it also provides survivors with no incentive to stick around if they're being camped or tunnelled, and influences many DC's or 'hook suicides', which ruin the game for all survivors. With certain bonus bloodpoint scores, you could provide camped/tunnelled survivors with a commiseration prize, as well as an incentive to stick around as long as possible to help out their team mates.
- While you're being chased, earn bonus Distraction bloodpoint scores whenever another survivor; completes a generator repair (250 BP in Objectives), heals a health state of another survivor (150 BP in Altruism), rescues another survivor from a hook (250 BP in Altruism).
- While you're on a hook, if the killer is within 16 meters of you, earn bonus Distraction bloodpoint scores whenever another survivor; completes a generator repair (250 BP in Objectives), heals a health state of another survivor (150 BP in Altruism), rescues another survivor from a hook (250 BP in Altruism).
The first of these compensates players who are tunnelled, or otherwise run the killer for the entire game, and are not given the chance to take any actions within the Objectives or Altruism categories. While the latter similarly compensates those who are camped, encouraging them to hang in there as long as possible, so that they can score a few more BP while helping out their team mates in distracting the killer.
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Clap trap
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@Frogsplosion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478215#Comment_3478215
Survivors would perform the locker hop hiding game for 60 minutes just to make Killers miserable, if survivors don't do generators then they are the ones holding the game hostage.
If your game lasted 30 minutes because you botched yourself into a three gen and he refused to actively go after it and just started hopping into lockers and hiding until the killer chased someone, you are also responsible for slowing the game down.
Ok?
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It's similar to how completing generators can result in a 3 gen. It's a drawback to eliminating survivors without care. Sacrifice them too early or in the wrong place, and you can hamper your efforts later in the game.
It's not a huge issue, I guess I wouldn't be sad to see it go. But it would kinda be a double standard if survivors couldn't do something similar with gens.
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I don't feel like Charmed would warrant a full chapter to be honest.
I see it more as a Survivor paragraph, with Legendary skins to cover all three/four sisters. With a perk to represent each of their powers. So your survivor ideas are pretty cool.
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478357#Comment_3478357
Basekit deliverance is happening? I did not notice it in the patch notes.
It was in the year roadmap, I think they said 'summer' so potentially sometime between now and the October midchapter
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I think a preference list would overcomplicate things, you can already pick out the things you want then randomise the rest, it's not too much more time consuming unless you want to claim several specific nodes. But I do think it should prioritise event items more than it does.
It seems to me that there are three basic priority rules in place:
- Perks
- Proximity to the central node (by path)
- Bloodpoint cost
In that order. Once perks are exhausted, it will claim everything in the central ring by cost, then move out along the outer paths similarly.
Event items should be squeezed in between Perks and Proximity.
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I would have said that the counter to this perk is fine. Don't tunnel.
However, as this perk gives no indication of it's presence until you've already committed to a tunnel and downed and then picked up the survivor, there isn't really a counter to it. It's basically just Decisive Strike with fewer restrictions.
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As coughing/puking are part of a killers power, it is probably not on the table. These killers typically rely on this side effect, some such as Plague even have add ons that activate on puke.
But I do like the idea of a 'hold breath' basekit ability, possibly with a stamina element. Mainly to silence breathing sounds, but this could reduce the volume/frequency of coughs and pukes by a small amount, say 25%. But in return, non-suppressed breathing would be slightly louder.
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I think it's unlikely they'd want to just refund for straight up bloodpoints. It kinda undermines the whole bloodweb system.
But I do think there should be some kind of conversion system.
My idea would be that; A. all (or maybe 75% of) bloodpoint offerings are removed from the bloodweb. B. unwanted add-ons and offerings can be converted into bloodpoint offerings of the same rarity.
This generates an imperative to use those offerings to claim your refund, and promote further play, rather than a passive bloodpoint reimbursement system that essentially just rerolls your bloodweb results with decreased returns.
@Seraphor said:
With several causes for concern over BP gains from the new system coming in 6.1.0, most believing that they won't be receiving as much BP due to a lack of BBQ/WGLF bonuses, or due to the new prestige system resetting bloodweb levels and resulting in fewer rare/very-rare nodes including Bloody Party Streamers, etc. It seems like it's time to dredge up the idea of improving the efficacy of BP offerings once more.
It's common knowledge that the common and uncommon BP offerings are, less than valuable. Often they barely, if at all, result in a reimbursement of the BP it cost to acquire them. For example, a common category specific BP offering will cost 3000 BP, and the maximum it can give you back if you're lucky, is 4000 BP.
Moreover, with bloodwebs resetting after each level 50 prestige, we're going to end up with a lot more common and uncommon nodes, more than most players will be willing to make use of.
With that in mind, my suggestion is the following increase of BP offering values, to make the common and uncommon ones more viable to use, while reworking the rare BP offerings to provide more consistency, i.e. all green offerings will apply their effect to other players.
Increases to BP offering values and effects
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7NDND3GWPM07/survivorcategories.png
Although only 25% increases for the Uncommon and Common offerings, the main improvement's here is that your 3000 BP spent to gain a Common offering is far more likely to reimburse you that full 3000, and now the maximum value is 6000 BP, giving you the opportunity to double it. Likewise, the 4000 BP Uncommon offerings can double to 8000 BP in a category.
For the Rare's, rather than increasing this bonus further, it instead applies the bonus for all survivors. Creating consistency between the Rare BP offerings and spreading the BP amongst the other survivors.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MLI8TPXN2SJQ/killercategories.png
These upgrades work just the same as the survivor versions, except for the Rare's, as there's no other killers to share it with. This is instead replaced by a shared offering in the all-categories section below. This is a net gain for killers as the 100% in one category can give a max of 8000 BP, while the 50% in all-categories can give up to 12000 BP, but this also benefits survivors as well, so it's a net gain all-round.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9NRZ4UP0RM3B/allcategories.png
Again, 25% increases to the lowest bonuses to make them more worthwhile to use, and closing the relative gap between different offerings of the same rarity bracket. With Bloodied Envelope providing killers with another sharable offering.
Add-on / Offering Trade-In Feature
Additionally, I'd love there to be an add-on/offering trade-in system, in which we can convert out unwanted trash, into more useful BP offerings. A trade-in system is something that's been suggested many times, but one that I feel is unlikely to become a reality, this however accomplishes the same player wishes, while still requiring engagement from the players to make use of it. You have to use those BP offerings to get your BP back.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DQRI92NG6G74/tradeinofferings.png
In this system, you can trade in add-ons and offerings for BP offerings of the same rarity, with Very-Rare's providing the Rare Envelope/Streamers offerings. Ultra-Rare's would not be eligible for trade-in.
There could also be a very small chance (10% or less?) of a trade-in resulting in one rarity higher, e.g. an Uncommon add-on could convert into a Rare BP offering.
This simultaneously removes the unwanted stuff from your inventories, while also providing a means to acquire more valuable BP offerings and an incentive to continue playing more games.
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There is a perk idea I like for anti-tunnelling that I came up with:
- Gain a token each time you lose a hook state. Lose a token each time another survivor is hooked or killed. This perk activates when you are on death hook, for each token, gain 1/2/3% haste and reduce cries of pain by 50% for 120 seconds. This perk deactivates once the exit gates are powered.
This only activates when you've been hooked, either twice in a row or at half strength just after you're second hook. It is countered by hooking another survivor, and it deactivates in the endgame so it can't stack with Hope. It can't be weaponised because it doesn't grant any kind of immunity or bonus health state or otherwise prevent the killer from taking an action, and the killer can discern you're moving faster and choose to go for someone else. It is not indefinite, so if the killer tries and fails to hook other survivors for two minutes, they can eventually come back to you. But it can also be fairly countered if the killer is running haste perks, a perk for perk.
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@MrBuffalo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478320#Comment_3478320
Its not meant to change anything.....Its just a feature to use for fun.
Its just nice to have the option to use said feature.
Yes... that's my point....
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478299#Comment_3478299
Yes it's going to spice up my solo queue games, where they can't even utilize meta perks properly, so much that I won't bother playing survivor anymore 🤩
So in other words, it won't change anything.
People aren't going to run it if they don't want to, and those that do will most likely be players who are competent at running without perks.
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Agreed. It should be a base option in the loadout menu. It would allow you to potentially roll perks you haven't yet unlocked on a character and spice up the gameplay. Then make a daily ritual to use this feature, and you'll see (slightly) fewer meta loadouts.
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They already tried this in two PTB's, and it resulted in survivors abusing the mechanic by holding the killer within range of a hook but far enough away to guarantee that if the killer tried to chase them, they were open for a hook rescue. This makes it impossible to camp survivors, removing that player agency from the killer, and there are niche scenarios where camping is the killers best or only option such as during end game. So it's not that simple.
I agree there need to be measures to make camping less effective (which are in the works, such as the removal of hook grabs potentially in a couple weeks and the anti-camp mechanic due in a later chapter) but these don't remove the killers ability to choose to camp, they simply make it less profitable to do so.
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How do you punish tunnelling without also punishing killers who legit accidentally encounter the same survivor twice?
No one has been able to figure this out yet. Without this caveat, any anti-tunnelling mechanic becomes highly weaponised by unhooked survivors.
Survivors already bodyblock when they have unhook endurance, to force the killer to hit them. They consider it a free health state, but it's not, it's a license to tunnel. Bodyblock after unhook = "tunnel me"
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478275#Comment_3478275
how is gen-rushing not a counter? if you finish gens faster then killer gets 3 stacks. devour hope is worse then NOED. If you loop correctly and do not go down, then exposed is not meaningful though some killer have ability to use anti-loop with exposed... such as Spirit. Deliverance can deny stacks from devour hope as can luck offerings. lastly rushing unhooks before killer exit 24 meters also denies devour hope. If you cannot do any of these, then there is always cleansing the totem.
Because 'ending the game' is technically a counter for everything and hinges on the killer not using the thing you're trying to counter before you end the game.
This argument is like saying "nothing is real because we all experience reality subjectively in our minds"
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@Devil_hit11 said:
there used to be a mechanic to end matches early. the mechanic was called the hatch. The way it worked is if 1 survivor died and you were at 1 gen, a hatch would spawn closed. If you used item called "Skeleton key", you could open the hatch and escape. the hatch would stay open for 30 seconds and then close. Keys were weaken and the hatch only spawns when all 5 generators have been powered.
back then, there were no perks to regress generators. 3 generator were considered a joke meme strategy. the only conceivable killer that would 3 gen on serious level was doctor. in fact, people back in the day called it "hostage doctor" because he took the game hostage. He didn't really take the game hostage, people were just terrible at hitting skill-checks but that is besides the point. The reason nobody ever consider 3 gen as relevant was because killer could only regress gens at 400% speed slower then survivor progressing generator. It was so laughable regression that nobody even consider 3 gens as useful or viable. The only way to make survivor regress gens was to make them miss a skill-check because missing skill-check awards 10% regression. So people would meme with doctor by equipping overcharge and unnerving presence in attempt to make survivor miss skill-checks by kicking 3 gens over and over. skull merchant is kinda like old hostage doctor in my opinion. it bullies weaker survivors that have trouble breaking 3 gens with the whole overcharge+eruption+sloppy/cob gameplay but experienced survivors can beat it.
Hag released before Doctor, and old Ruin was savage.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478269#Comment_3478269
it has many counters such as doing gens. not getting hit, kobing and hook bombing.
Those don't really count as 'counters'. Otherwise 'downing and hooking survivors' is a counter for Made For This.
How is "doing gens" a counter for Devour when the killer is running at you?
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@Luv2NotHateDBD said:
Only at max totems. Otherwise, no it would weaken the Hex too much. This way it turns into a race, and there's counter play to both sides.
This probably wouldn't be so bad actually. I wouldn't say it's particularly necessary, but it wouldn't be severely nerfed if this was the case. Say it's aura could be seen within 8 meters only once it has full stacks, (NOED expands to 24 meters) this wouldn't make it significantly easier to find, it just wouldn't make it easy to miss.
Unlike NOED, which provides two counters (cleansing the totem or just leaving the game, because the exits are powered), Devour only has the one counter, finding the totem, which you have to do in the same time that you're under pressure to repair gens as well.
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Not in the lobby, but in game.
Just as you can hit options to see things like player ping etc. You could see survivor perks in that screen. This wouldn't have any negative effects like lobby dodging.
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I wouldn't say no to some slight Dredge buffs, but I'm pretty used to running these add ons anyway, so I wouldn't say it feels to me that these need to be basekit.
The only thing I'd want is better/more locker placement in certain maps.
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@FrenchBagels said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478190#Comment_3478190
I'll bite.
Explain in any way, shape, or form, a survivor, whose objective is to COMPLETE generators, is responsible for delaying the game to an absolutely unbearable amount of time outside of it being a hacker. I'll wait here and actually listen to your response. Maybe you can convince me I don't know. But maybe, just maybe, you actually have a valid reasoning to this I'm not seeing.
While I'm sure you're refering to 3 gen Skull Merchant, which is a legit although niche case, the way you've phrased your argument doesn't follow.
Explain in any way, shape, or form, a Killer, whose objective is to Kill Survivors, is responsible for delaying the game to an absolutely unbearable amount of time outside of it being a hacker. I'll wait here and actually listen to your response. Maybe you can convince me I don't know. But maybe, just maybe, you actually have a valid reasoning to this I'm not seeing.
Your arguing the survivors objective is to repair gens so not repairing gens isn't in their interest. Well neither is it in the killer's interest to not kill survivors. Neither of these benefit from the game timing out.
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Love the constant gaslighting from people who cant play killer without camping and tunneling.
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@CamperSluggerVillain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478084#Comment_3478084
So you're playing everyday and wining often as wraith and pig? doubt.
Maybe you're just bad?
You run an endgame build with blood warden. Why are you expecting to need it?
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@CamperSluggerVillain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478077#Comment_3478077
becaue you don't play often and your mmr decays. simple
I play nearly every day.
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@CamperSluggerVillain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478064#Comment_3478064
i use the same build all day everyday it's called BBQ agi blood warden and term so your theroy is wrong also you're 12 hooking with wraith and pig? so you're saying you're in low mmr makes sense wraith and pig are in fact noob stompers
Can you explain how I stay in low MMR while scoring predominantly 3Ks?
I mean I know I'm not in top 5% because I don't get hackers, I honestly don't know my MMR, no one who isn't top 5% does. But I know how MMR works.
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That add on requires much more stalk time than usual, which balances it out. It's not possible to reach tier 3 in 30 seconds, especially if that's a chase.
If you notice Myers is taking a long time to tier up, don't let him hit you once.
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Customary thread plug:
@Seraphor said:
I've always found it odd that we have two classes of items that (now at least) only exist to track auras. So why couldn't these functions be combined into one item class that's used to track auras, using add-ons to determine what additional objectives are tracked?
I've formed this idea on the basis of three issues I have with or regarding these items:
- Since the Hatch rework, Keys have become virtually useless for opening the Hatch, and still very rarely used for their aura tracking features. That aura tracking is very useful, but it doesn't appear to be good enough to get many players using them.
- Maps are also rarely seen, despite not being changed. Of course this is probably because they were previously used with Keys in a SWF to locate the hatch. As it turns out, their limited aura tracking isn't quite good enough to make up for this.
- This will seem unconnected but... basekit Kindred. It's requested over and over again as a bandaid fix for solo survivors to deal with camping. It's never going to happen, but these items could make up for it. We have medkits in place of healing perks, toolboxes in place of repair perks, and flashlights provide additional ways to stun. So why not have items that replace aura perks? Do these items already do that? Kinda. Do they do it effectively enough? No.
So I've come up with a concept where instead of having Keys or Maps, we instead get Keyrings. We can attach various charms, and indeed keys onto these Keyrings, and they effectively serve as buffed Maps that could be used to open the hatch, if they have a functional key attached to them.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DULKSWT7SJJN/keyrings1.png
Please forgive the scuffed icons.
The main addition here is that simply equipping the Keyrings will provide the survivor with one permanent basekit feature, the ability to see the auras of fellow survivors within a short distance. Effectively replicating Bond but slightly reduced. This is comparable to a Medkit replacing Selfcare.
In addition, Keyrings can still be channelled, using up charges, to activate further aura tracking abilities. As default that includes survivors further away, and generators within that same short distance zone.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/L32R2JSLFYX5/keyrings2.png
For common/uncommon add-ons, we get the general distance/charges upgrades, plus a few additional abilities. Some of these are simply existing Key or Map aura tracking abilities that I've integrated back into Keyrings, however the Eroded Token's new effect is entirely novel.
The Eroded Token would allow you to see the aura of survivors who are within 16 metres of the killer, when using charges. This would serve as a sort of Kindred-lite, as if you start charging the Keyring and see a survivor appear further than 16/24 metres away from you, you can infer that the killer is close to them.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TUYJMLA90CGF/keyrings3.png
Then we get the rare and up add-ons.
The Gold Token is straight up Kindred replication, although obviously limited by the charges of the Keyring.
The Broken Key now sees a new lease of life, it's no longer useless, it can be used to track the Hatch, even while it's open, giving you as the last remaining survivor an edge over the killer in the race to the hatch.
Attaching the Dull Key allows the Keyring to function just as the current Dull Key does, giving the ability to open a closed Hatch. Then the Skeleton Key combines both together, giving you the aura of and ability to open the Hatch.
I think these changes, essentially combining the best parts of Maps and Keys into one, would make an item that may actually be as useful as a Medkit, Toolbox or Flashlight, and provide solo survivors with additional effective options to gathering info, that won't feel like a waste of a slot that using Kindred does for some.
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@CamperSluggerVillain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477831#Comment_3477831
you're not getting 12 hooks dude it's impossible to 12 hook survivors even with B tier killers these days stop lying.
Unless you're a nuse/blight main then I belive you
Then I guess you're not going to believe me. Today I got 11 hooks with Wraith, Dredge and Pig, offering hatch to the final survivor.
I don't believe you're all having so much trouble playing killer, I believe you've all become reliant on crutches such as quadruple slowdown, camping and tunneling, as a replacement for game sense and macro game control.
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The extra pallets make up for the lack of useful window vaults, of which there are only four on the entire map, with one of those being virtually a death sentence.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477691#Comment_3477691
Here's the thing though - Disabling the hook grab isn't necessary with the anti-camp mechanic on the way. If the back and fourth part between the killer and survivor is really such a concern and it isn't just another excuse to further weaken the killer role, then why not just lock the survivor into the unhooking animation once it's started?
Because unless collision is removed during base kit off-the-hook borrowed time, somebody can just dive the basement hook with the killer not far behind and the rescued survivor can body block with endurance.
If the anti camp mechanic is present, then why does saving also have to be made significantly less dangerous at the same time?
How is saving being made less dangerous? The rescuer is still guaranteed to go down.
Your basement scenario doesn't make any sense.
In every scenario where you could potentially get a hook grab, you can guarantee a hook trade. You hit the survivor, interrupt the save, you wipe your blade as the survivor restarts the unhook animation, then you whack them again as they complete the unhook.
I do this more than enough to know that this second hit always lands before the unhooked survivor can move to block the second hit. I never try for a hook grab, because I'm not playing the stupid hook standoff game, and every time I get a trade. And with STBFL, you make it even more certain.
The anti-camp system they have planned doesn't do anything here either. That system is for when survivors don't take the risk to attempt a save. If they do, the fact that the hooked survivor gains progress to a potential self-unhook does have any effect. Without the removal of hook grabs, rescue attempts are too costly, and it's always more beneficial to let the survivor hang there in the hope that they can unhook themselves. Removing choice and validating campers.
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Yes, we need more indoor maps and this is a great idea. Another I'd like to see is a high school, like Sunnydale or from The Faculty. Even better would be both of these in the same realm so they're covered by a single map offering.
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477668#Comment_3477668
You guys are always "killer mains" lol
Its literally almost the opposite of everything you said. I know you think there is only one universe and that is your own, but there is another side to this that is equally BS. If you get camped, stop whining and go do gens - you dont need yet another survivor hand me down. Gens are done so fast now a camping killer will not win.
I am a killer main (75% killer, 20% solo survivor, 5% SWF) and I play for BP, that means getting 12 hooks per game, which can't happen if you camp.
The issue in this topic is scores, if you want a higher score, then you need to do as much as you can in a game, which means no short cuts. No camping, no early eliminations, no gen rushing.
If you want to camp and tunnel that's fine, but you're going to get a crap score and de-pip. Your choice.
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Exposed on Bloodlust does seem like the most OP part of the event. It should probably have only been available at Bloodlust Tier 3.
Or they should have just kept the effects to pallets and windows. Instead of Exposed, have the ability to block a window for survivors like survivors do for the killer. This could still easily guarantee a hit.
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There's nothing new about this, and it's mostly covering for the fact that:
A. They can ban you for breaking their terms of service and don't have to refund you. Online games can't function without this, no one would ever get banned if it meant they had to refund everything.
B. Servers require upkeep and won't exist indefinitely. They also can't refund everyone if they close the servers, they'd instantly go into debt for all of the income they'd ever earned.
and hypothetically (although this may not be the case at all if they worked out contracts correctly)
C. When a limited time license (like Stranger Things for example) ends their contract, and the license holder for whatever reason doesn't agree to keeping content already purchased available, they don't have to refund you for that either.
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Removing healthy hook grabs has been suggested many times as a counter to face camping.
The killer is already more than capable of securing a hook trade when face camping, which is still in the killers favour, as it's still reducing the survivors hook count by 1, and results in an injured survivor running away from the hook. There's simply no reason why someone who is face camping needs to be doubly rewarded with taking out two survivors at once.
Additionally, it results in the absolutely ridiculous hook standoff, where a survivor will run up to the hook, and be unable to take any action, while the killer stands there unable to hit them, each of them waiting for the other to flinch. This is utterly ridiculous "gameplay" for a horror game, and even if you don't think 'immersion' is at all important, its still a boring mechanic that relies on player ping more than anything.
This is entirely different to grabbing survivors from gens or totems, because neither of these scenarios result in a 'stand off' mechanic.
Healthy grabs have already been disabled on pallets for a long time.
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@flotaku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3476901#Comment_3476901
Is it though? If the next opponent brings a cake as well, I am not depriving them of anything.
They have the option to get more bloodpoints by sharing their own cake.
Why was this suggested?
"Because the last killer/survivor I played against was mean to me so next time the reward should only go to me"
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Yes, 3% faster movement (when the killer can get 15% faster as basekit) is going to destroy game balance. Coming from the game that used to have infinitely sabotaged hooks, instant rapid attacks, instant flashlight blinds, no way to regress generators, BNP's that instantly repaired a gen to full, and mori's available on first down.
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3476403#Comment_3476403
Watch this - this is pretty cool:
The funny thing is this applies equally to SURVIVORS and is demonstrated by the SWF EXAMPLE ABOVE.
If you utilise scummy SURVIVOR tactics such as INFINITE LOOPING and RUNNING PALLET TO PALLET, you will 0K without acquiring enough chase or hook points, and you won't pip. THEN BHVR WILL JUST MAKE THE GAME EASIER FOR YOU WHEN THE 50/50 RATIO GOES BELOW 50 FOR SURVIVORS - YOU WILL SUDDENLY IMPROVE BUT IT WON'T BE BECAUSE YOU ARE GOOD.
Just as KILLERS will want to complete actions in all categories; HOOKING, CHASING, etc, SURVIVORS need to complete enough actions in all of their categories as well, this involves letting KILLERS LET ONE PLAYER FALL, so that you can score more GEN COMPLETION points, and FINISH GENS LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO AS A SURVIVOR.
If you just LET THE KILLER camp, then not only would you gain more pips BY FINISHING GENS, but all of these anti-camping mechanics would be of no consequence to you.
PRETTY COOL HOW THAT WORKED FROM THE OTHER SIDE HUH? LOLOLOL
You realise I already did that? I never disagreed that it was the case for survivors...
I'm a killer main btw, and I make sure to 2 hook everyone before I start eliminating because I want my maximum hooks and camping/tunnelling are boring af.
Also... half of your facetious retort is factually incorrect or nonsensical. "let the killer camp so you get more BP and avoid anti-camping mechanics" that's fundamentally not how that works, if you let the killer camp, not only will the killer be subject to every anti-camping measure that would exist, but everyone will get terrible BP scores. You're fundamentally, objectively wrong.
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What exactly do you want to do that bots don't? You can loop, you can mind game the killer, are these not viable options?
But you don't want to do gens or heal, because that's what bots do?
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Generally, on the rare occasion we get kill rate figures, we're told what the top 5% are, and then what they are overall.
You could reverse engineer this a little to get an idea of what everything else outside of the top 5% is like.
But until we get those updated figures, it's anyone's guess.
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@jeffkillsyou96 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477335#Comment_3477335
well it’s a variety problem there’s not enough builds in the game that are both fun and viable it’s like survivors have to play like bots in order to play the game
If by playing like bots you mean "doing the thing that benefits you at that moment in time" sure. But that's just about every game.