Ryuhi
Ryuhi
About
- Username
- Ryuhi
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216000#Comment_3216000
And for last survivor, hatch is closed. And gates blocked by NWO for a minute, now they can not do anything. This is lose - lose scenerio for survivor as well.
I can't see any difference. And i am not even talking about DS nerfed into ground with 3 seconds stun time
The difference is that the survivor already lost twice: They lost when their team all died before completing gens, and they lost again when the killer beat them to the hatch. If anything how NWO works in this situation is exactly how it should, a gate escape is counted as a win, and someone who has lost twice has clearly not won.
-
Do people really not remember when you had to consistently get great skill checks to combat ruin? Obviously it was before some people's time, but the playerbase was able to get a lot more great skillchecks when they had ample incentive to do so. I don't think the quality of players has decreased that much since then.
-
@rattus210 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215940#Comment_3215940
Unless you're bringing Hyperfocus and hitting the greats 100% of the time, I do not think the hook timer is long enough to outlast 5 gens. And deadlock shows where the killer should go look around to find the next survivor. But I could be wrong. But gen rushing is an issue people do not enjoy, yet there is no other way to beat this sort of playstyle if you aren't gen rushing.
YOU are not supposed to be doing all 5 gens while someone is on hook, YOUR TEAM is supposed to. You can only do your own part, but the more people stop lamenting they can't 1v1 and work together, the better survivors do in that situation. By refusing to adapt you literally hold back the ones that do try to punish the killer for it.
Edit: In regards to the circular logic of gen rush vs tunneling, that is indeed a very big problem that affects both sides evenly, despite a lot of people claiming its only an issue for one side. Its a big part of the reason why a lot of these issues people pose as only affecting one side need to be approached from both sides, since the solution to one often creates new problems for the other.
-
@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215958#Comment_3215958
We should just send jackboots to peoples houses and force them to play a game!
That is one hell of a strawman you've got there. At least make it witty and fun.
-
@Nikatara69 said:
Once again, why I should my precious time on killer who play badly and not fun??? Just move on and grow up and stop moaning about people decisions.
because it takes 2 to tango and it takes 5 to DBD.
-
@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215938#Comment_3215938
i should have phrased it as 0.whateverseconds . Look buddy mate friend, the duration of the initial bubble is not important or in any way relevant to the discussion you asked for how it would affect people negatively and i told you how.
Killer not camping yet vs decent survivors you are getting a serious advantage in chases because you dont have to guess, you see them coming your way and noone else is nearby, BBQ, run. You know how annoying it is when you face the occasional really good SWFs that do that? Imagine every solo doing the same if they are good enough.
You are welcome for the answer buddy friend pal <3
They have a point about the bubble, it lasts long enough to shroud who the killer is if they leave the hook immediately either toward or away from you, and you do have less time to see who it is even if they move left or right. Been on a bit of a break but if its still in there its absolutely a bug that affects that.
That said it is only one portion of its info it provides though.
-
As someone who uses kindred almost every game, it is absolutely too strong to be basekit as it is. I feel like a lot of people don't really understand how to use its information if they think it should be free.
-
@rattus210 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215719#Comment_3215719
Gonna have to disagree on that. Even if you were in a swf rushing gens to try and get out asap from this, dead lock would pretty much put a stop to your gen rushing, and allow for more time waste for the hooked survivor to die. Then there is no way out to give the killer even more time. So at minimum the killer is pretty much guaranteed 2 kills, which is too much for a playstyle that requires no effort but standing there by a hook imo.
Deadlock only gets half its value unless the killer leaves and pressures the gen. If not, it'll be waiting exactly where it left off before getting blocked, which means you just rotate gens. Facecampers don't get to pressure the gen unless its right next to the hook.
-
@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215459#Comment_3215459
But it unfortunately makes camping easier as it buys the killer time since the survivors can't split up on gens as efficiently
Survivor efficiency caps need to be normalized in general, its why far too much of a given match can be decided in the first few minutes. They need to start weaker than currently but lose less efficiency with each person down or out.
-
@rattus210 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215456#Comment_3215456
Yep, perks that give killers gen slowdown without any effort required from them really allows for more time to do unfun strategies such as these...
Thats not the point. The point is how easy it is for 3 gens to pop in the first <90seconds of the game, and the perk breaking up that burst efficiency.
-
@dspaceman20 said:
Deadlock is a really terrible and not a well thought out perk
Its actually very well thought out, because its one of the only perks in the game that acknowledges 2+ survivors could be on 2+ gens at the same time.
-
@Buffy101 said:
I have to honestly say “Windows of Opportunity” and “Kindred” I like knowing where I can run to for potential safety and Kindred definitely. I hate attempting for a save when another survivor is half way across the map and when Im almost there someone unhooks them. Plus helps teammates know When no one is coming.
Came in here ready to post the same 2. The amount of metadata they can give is almost as good as having comms.
-
@versacefeng said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215344#Comment_3215344
Didn't realize, how about 20?
Oh I didn't mean it like that, more as in if you haven't gotten a hit or broken a pallet in 15 seconds, the game assumes you must need a hand. Its an amusing coincidence, but it also kinda shows how easy it is to lose track of what's too little or too much time for each interaction.
-
@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215318#Comment_3215318
Just how? Does she use cakes every game in swf?
Probably just dumping most/all of their BP into one character. Its been reasonably possible to do it that way for a bit now, especially with the increased cap/tome/bp codes. As survivor you still only need to level one person if they have access to all the perks they could want, and after P9 its basically just a number for almost all of the climb anyway.
-
@versacefeng said:
No. There’s already a superfluous amount of anti loop and ranged killers. Combine that with bloodlust and mini bamboozle and all chases will end in less than 15 seconds.
While I get your point, I think its kinda amusing you mentioned 15 seconds, since thats bloodlust time.
-
The ones who give up and refuse to improve. I consider them worse than any urban evader or self carer who is just doin their best, and I only hope they see their teammates play well and learn from it.
-
@squbax said:
I really don't wanna sound mean but why play sadako and get upset at people dunking on you? There is no drawback in making fun of someone playing sdako atm in the game. What are they gonna do? Play a good killer and get good with them and im sure you will almost never run into these problem.
The game has a learning curve, especially for killer. Its extremely common for people starting out to have these types of games when paired with players who are more experienced, and even experienced players can have games like this on killers/loadouts/etc that they don't know or understand. I'm just glad they're finally eventually adding the ability to enter custom games with a bot so you can practice things as either side without needing either a buddy or trial by goddamn fire.
-
@hastarkis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215218#Comment_3215218
Oh, got it, ok. I can see this solution as "hard to explain to players" but it could work, yeah. Can agree with you, it really could work and make rage quitting harder without affecting most of the playerbase.
As for people slipping through the cracks and still being able to ragequit, that is true, but it forces them to be in the game longer and to be more interactive to do it.
Also true. I've already used the "they won't stop try to die" argument, but in your solution it's much better than punish everyone with removing all interactive things from being hooked.
If nothing else, I absolutely hope that using similar systems to remove video recording ends up being part of their reporting system overhaul they're working on for the future.
Looking forward for that sort of change too. You seem to understand such things. It's interesting to read, thanks.
They are a product of circular logic, if gens are too fast than killers need be more efficient to keep up with them, which means that survivors need to be more efficient to keep up with killers being more efficient, and so on. Many of those types of issues would easily be resolved if there was less of a potential shift each time a survivor dies, which is why any overhauls regarding those elements would best be directed at that issue in their center.
This and this again. That's why I say it's impossible to solve camping and tunneling by making killers stronger "to be confident enough that they are able to win without camping and tunneling". Untill they can get a massive advantage by early kill (and untill they can get those early kills), they won't stop doing so. And survivors won't stop genrush trying to make as many gens as possible before the first kill. Meh. Hope, devs have plan to change it.
Also I know that I tend to type in run-on sentences that don't always translate well (especially with stuff like Deepl or google translate, so I again apologize for anything that seems off in translation.)
That's totally ok. I'm in that werd point of learning where I struggle with things translator can't actually help with, so it's kind of normal situation for me and a good practice, actually. Like, I translated it pretty right, as far as I can see now, but somehow got the whole idea wrong. Even my first language couldn't fix my misunderstood here, I think. It's just I got you wrong. So no need to apologize and thanks for explainig your idea for me!
No problem, I'm always happy to help people learn or understand more. I dabble in some very amateur game development myself so sometimes I find myself explaining things in ways that might not be as apparent without any of that knowledge, but I'm glad I was able to explain things well enough. At the end of the day I always prefer when people understand each other better instead of finding details to argue over, especially seeing how many things we agree on :)
Edit: for the record, I should mention that no two environments are the same, so there can be real reasons for them to be unable to implement one or any of my suggestions. I tried to keep my suggestion as universal as possible, but there could very well be restrictions within the engine or systems already in place that could affect whether they're possible or not. All to be taken with a small grain of salt since its not from one of their in house devs, of course.
-
@oxygen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215238#Comment_3215238
I do apologize as I didn't mean to dismiss anyone, guess I just forget at times as I personally don't experience feeling frustrated in that "icing on the cake" way in situations like that.
And my preferred idea for bleedouts was always just straight up letting slugged survivors in a game state deemed "unrecoverable" teleport themselves onto a basement hook anyway where they're rushed through hook stages with no kobe attempts, not basekit UB of any kind. Just allow players to skip what might be a pointless wait for an already determined outcome without needing the "consent" of their opponent(s), preferably without having to interact with them to do it at all. But still a concession mechanic first and foremost, unlike the UB stuff.
Thats kinda the direction they were planning on taking the finishing mori idea, but they had to come up with the convoluted basekit UB idea to counteract how killers would manipulate that and slug like crazy rather than going for hooks. I've seen a lot of compromises where they range from making it so that only the first person can get up when the other 1/2/3 get downed, ones where the effect doesnt happen if there are second chance perks present (like UB) that can still recover the game, etc. The whole situation is one I dislike for one specific reason: Its introducing new problems in an attempt to fix old ones. There's always going to be some collateral here and there, but they came up with this whole new system and over complicated everything by trying to force the game itself to adapt to the solution, rather than the other way around.
Also ye, Im sure you didn't mean to. I'm trying to work on being more mindful myself, so if it prevents arguments im always for mentioning it.
-
@oxygen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215224#Comment_3215224
That's why I say the way to immediately end the match wouldn't be exclusively tied to the last gen being done. It can also be something as short as 5 minutes of game time, then you can end the match no matter what they're up to.
Which would indeed fix the issue of not having to smack them out the exit gate, making it fix that problem at the same time. I think they were more responding to exit gate/bleedout dismissal. But like you proposed, having any type of time based opt out with a reasonable timer would indeed cover that as well. Basically you're both right but that dismissal caused a bit of discordance.
-
@hastarkis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215137#Comment_3215137
Theoretically sounds good, but practically I can't imagine how to separate legit self-unhooking and attempt to suicide on purpose out of frustration. You said smth about timings of attempts and I can't imagine how it's different for suicider and someone who objectively has no other hope but three self-unhook attempts. If you can explain your idea, it would be super cool.
And for second stage it's kinda same. I'm not sure you can tell the difference between two of me: first me is trying to kill myself by intentionaly hitting skillchecks righ after the success zone (don't know if it's different from ignoring but anyway) and second me who are too distracted by friends' jokes she hit skillchecks too late accidentally (and because of unlucky lags). From game's POV two of me act similar. Maybe it could be better to not remove skillchecks, only remove insta-death after second miss?.. Like, you still can miss skillchecks to speed up the process but two missed skillchecks can't kill you right away, you have misse two or three more. But in that case devs could did that in the "struggle update", and I wonder what thoughts were behind their desicion to keep it as it is.
Idea about keeping the data is amaising. I know that ticket isn't required for those reports (I assume, they ban if several players report you for same things even without video evidences) but this would be even better.
Anyway, it's still "you can't just remove suicide button" for me because in your solution nothing is "just" and "removed". And, technically, it still leaves a gap to sneak in for those who want to exit the match asap - they still can surrender to killer to be hooked three times early in the game (and make it in a legit unreportable way). Technically, it's still a way to die and go next pretty easy and without DC penalty (the main OP's concern). That's why I suggested to be consistent and remove mid-elimination at all. At least, it'd also remove camping and tunneling - three birds with one shot, you know :D
So yeah, I can see now how your solution could possibly limit rage quits, but I can't catch a technical idea behind it to secure legit plays.
Of course. When someone attempts an unhook, it is supposed to be because they either have tools to make it more viable, or because it is their only chance and they want to risk it. Thats the reason it's only a 4% chance, and the devs added additional feedback to make sure you know that it is reducing your hook timer. There are extremely few times where constantly going for self unhooks is anything other than giving up, and further considerations can be written into the check for them (like if multiple people are hooked on first stage at the same time due to a group slug, for instance.) Conditional checks for those types of variables are only limited by the game's ability to track them, so it usually only takes a handful of lines of code to create those types of systems.
With the skill checks there is a little bit more to consider, but not much. You can check for people mashing the button in an attempt to make sure it auto-fails the moment it pops up, and you can check for zero activity at all. The combination of the two gives you a pretty clear window on whether the person is actually trying or not, and the proposed sample set of 2 should usually be enough to make that distinction while not creating false positives in players who simply miss their timing in the skill check. These can also be adjusted over time without telling the playerbase, So that workaround methods rage-quitters attempt would be very inconsistent. At the very least, having it be on the first few skillchecks creates a situation where people who try to fail them on purpose are required to attempt at least a few of them, which creates a trap that either catches the quitters specifically, or at the very least inconveniences them and makes it more difficult to abuse.
The reason why these considerations on both system are taken is to minimize the potential of false positives, as in situations where survivors may been attempting the mechanics properly. Its also why there is no direct punishment imposed: The only thing that would be lost would generally be BP involved in the struggle phase. With the unhook one, You can only have a few unhook attempts per phase one due to the hook timer itself, so if someone is waiting before attempting to unhook they should only end up with a few attempts regardless. Its basically there to prevent them from going straight for the self unhook immediately while not affecting someone who goes for a last second unhook before going to stage 2, for instance.
As for people slipping through the cracks and still being able to ragequit, that is true, but it forces them to be in the game longer and to be more interactive to do it. Those are both deterrents to the behavior of trying to quit early and ruin the game for others, but also gives the other survivors time to recognize that and work on gens to progress the game further and minimize their penalty for the missing survivor. The game's balance shifts with each survivor dead or incapacitated, and the killer can only be at one place at a time: If the person ragequitting makes the killer take longer to get them out, the survivors who lost their teammate can at least even the odds during that time. The comment about storing the data to flag them as attempting to ragequit can then be used to corroborate if the other survivors report them if they continue to disrupt the match. People will always be able to quit by disconnecting their internet/closing the application/etc, but they put a disconnect button in there for a reason: By disconnecting early from a match, you are agreeing to the terms involving your DC penalty, while people use ragequitting on hook to bypass that penalty entirely.
There are a lot of types of data that the game can be tracking, but isn't. It was originally designed in a "P2P" environment, where it would base all of its core foundation of logic on the "host" of the match, which would be the killer specifically. In that type of system, there was no centralized server to maintain consistency for all of the data in a match, so it was more understandable that many integrity checks were not possible in the middle of a match. When they switched over to dedicated servers, many of these types of systems became possible but not implemented. To their defense, it takes a LOT of work to rewrite everything to use the potential of the new structure, so I'm not surprised they have not rewritten everything to use these types of solutions. It does remain a viable way to address fixes going forward however, which is why I wish they would use it more when it can be used to fix situations like this. If nothing else, I absolutely hope that using similar systems to remove video recording ends up being part of their reporting system overhaul they're working on for the future.
Issues like camping/tunneling/genrushing/etc are all a bit more tricky situations to handle, because they have legitimate causes and affects for both sides. They are a product of circular logic, if gens are too fast than killers need be more efficient to keep up with them, which means that survivors need to be more efficient to keep up with killers being more efficient, and so on. Many of those types of issues would easily be resolved if there was less of a potential shift each time a survivor dies, which is why any overhauls regarding those elements would best be directed at that issue in their center.
Also I know that I tend to type in run-on sentences that don't always translate well (especially with stuff like Deepl or google translate) so I again apologize for anything that seems off in translation.)
-
@oxygen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215158#Comment_3215158
Personally I disagree to some extent, as even in the most hopeless killer matches you can still at least try, and you get to do more than recover and crawl around while doing so. I do fully understand I'm probably a bit of an anomaly as I genuinely do not give a fraction of a damn about any BM they can do, and I know that's not the case for everyone.
But yeah, I did sorta misunderstand, I assumed it was primarily about people waiting until the last femtosecond of EGC to leave and stuff (which IS a pointless waste of time even if the killer can chase them out, one that's worth eliminating). In a lot of ways I'd call it a matchmaking issue first and foremost as it takes a pretty serious skill difference for a match like that (in either direction) to happen, but we all know matchmaking can have a bit of a moment for a lot of reasons (lobby backfills, long queue times on either side getting people to the "screw it, find them ANY match" point and more).
And the "X minutes" aren't even necessarily any amount of time long enough that makes it more laser-focused on hostage matches, cheaters and so on. It could be as low as 4-5 minutes and I'd be totally fine with testing it with such a short time requirement.
I think a very common misconception about the "smack them at the gate to make them leave" is the match that led up to that point. It has a very different effect mentally when you're just slapping them so they'd leave, vs being subjected to constant bm for the entire time leading up to the "icing on the cake" moment of having to sit there and do 8+ M1's while they get their last kicks in. Its why I don't consider that argument any more or less than telling survivors to afk and do something else if they're forced to bleed out: Most of their frustration comes from everything leading up to being put in that state, as well as their current temperament. They're even trying to find a way to give them free basekit multi-use UB for their troubles, balance and other mechanics be damned.
-
@RaSavage42 said:
I would say to shorten the EGC to 1 minute
And either shorten Gen times to 80 charges or shorten hook times (seems that there are perks for stopping the hook timer)
Also shortening the Blocked Gen perks (Deadlock)
I don't like the idea of shortening the EGC because of how easy it is to manipulate. 99ing exits is one part of it, but there can also be legitimate plays during that time. The entire point of 99ing gates is to keep that timer as long as possible to keep room for legitimate plays during the EGC.
If it were to be shortened in any way, it should if there is a survivor standing inside the exit gates, kinda like how it slows when someone is downed or hooked. There will definitely be a learning period where people will unknowingly speed the timer up, but with a reasonable alteration to the bar (like when it is slowed) it should be apparent enough that people wouldn't do it on accident for long.
The other suggestions about reducing gen times and gen block times has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
-
@oxygen said:
While I absolutely believe there should be some kinda lever in the basement or something that immediately makes all living survivors escape that becomes available when the last gen is done OR after X minutes have passed, there is a difference between being slugged for 4 minutes and people waiting at gates. The latter can be ended by hitting them, they either leave or they die.
The X minutes stipulation can account for part of it, but OP's point was that the match was unwinnable from a pretty early state, and they were forced to go through the motions or afk until the survivors finished and left. Its not as easy as just chasing people out when they're purposely playing less efficient to focus on maximizing their BM, and people often drag matches out when they have no fear of losing. You can literally feel as hopeless as the dreaded 4 min slugs do, so its not really necessary to use that bad situation to try to invalidate someone else's.
-
@Izo_Quartz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3214942#Comment_3214942
Not that i'm saying i want a meta among survivor characters, but assuming that this would lead to that, which is unlikely. Why are killers the only ones that get to have a meta and not survuivors, seems like a clear double-standard doesn it?
Becuase BHVR can't balance the killers to be equally viable. It would just be introducing another element in the game to become imbalanced.
-
It doesn't normalize depending on the survivor, if thats what you mean: An ace with iron will's effect will be quieter than a jeff or bill using it.
The audio normalization is kinda long overdue, but i understand holding onto it as one of the few unique things from survivor to survivor. Its at least not as bad as stuff like shoe cosmetics having different footstep sounds which is apparently(?) a thing.
-
@hastarkis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215087#Comment_3215087
Honesly, I didn't get difference between your suggestion and OP's (maybe because of my English). Afai understand, on first stage you can self-unhook only early and that's exactly what suiciders need, or you can self-unhook only too late - and then you can't try it three times - it's a nerf for legit situations. Then, no matter whether you hit skillchecks or no, you can't change anything because if you don't hit skillcheck they just stop to appear - you sit on 2d phase and wait others to save you, you can't die and can't decide to stay alive. Then why try to hit skillchecks is the first place and how it's not more boring and not more agency-less than now?
If there's a language barrier that is in the way, I absolutely understand and apologize if any of it doesn't make sense. The overall idea is that there would be systems in place to prevent people from spamming unhook attempts, as well as purposely ignoring or mashing to automatically fail skill checks in the second state. It is specifically designed in a way to not affect legitimate misses in the second phase, while not preventing flailing your arms or going for deliverance/legitimate self unhook attempts in the first one. The advantage of doing the skill checks vs purposely triggering the fail-safe is that you do not lose any of the time that purposely missing two checks takes off of the hook timer. The data is also held so that if the person decides to take it out on their teammates by sandbagging them or disrupting the game further, people will be able to report them without needing to record the interaction (while also not leaving room for people to false report each other and abuse it.)
My priority is on how people rage-quitting early on the hook both ruins the match for their teammates and the killer, but also how it corrupts BHVRs internal statistics tracking that they use to evaluate the state of the game regularly. The solution is designed in a way that prevents that while not preventing players from interacting with those mechanics normally.
-
Focus on improving more than winning. Take each match as a test for yourself and have particular aspects you want to practice with as they present themself. Use tunneling as a means of practicing how to waste the killer's time and getting better at looping, use camping as situations to practice bodyblocks/distractions/etc. Use bad teammates as practice for assessing whats going on in the match overall, and toxic killers are just practice for temperment.
The game is not balanced enough to primarily focus on winning and losing. You will lose matches you should win, just like you'll win matches you should lose. The only way to have direct agency in what you get out of a match is to give yourself a condition you will reasonably be able to fulfill each game. The bonus is that the more you improve, the more you'll do well enough to carry bad teammates and nullify strategies like tunneling and camping, then next thing you know you're in high MMR and most of your teammates did the same thing, and now your games end up easier.
-
@Fred_krueger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215111#Comment_3215111
Thats a pretty good idea.
I think it needs to be addressed, since theyre adding the top tier perks as basekit for survivor its allowing survivors to bring full bully / genrush builds and I am noticing more games feel hopeless for me lately.
Even though they added 10 seconds, gens are absolutely flying for me. I used to be able to have 1 person dead by 3 gens left pretty consistently
The gen speed thing is a bit misleading, because its actually a range of 20-50 seconds total. 10 seconds doesn't add 30 seconds if 3 gens are being worked on at the same time, it adds 10 seconds before 3 gens pop. And since ruin and corrupt got nerfed pretty badly, most killer pressure has to rely on blocking gens or kicking them which mean survivors are even stronger in early game than they were before.
Deadlock is pretty much your best friend for dealing with that stuff, unfortunately. It at least prevents one of the gens from popping in your first chase, and gives you a location to pressure afterward.
-
@Fred_krueger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215107#Comment_3215107
They were a really good team. All 6k hours, level 80s. Destroying me. Got my first hook at 2 gens left.
4x prove thyself, BNP, etc, hyperfocus.
I couldnt keep up at all.
Oh ye I was memeing, I definitely understand how hopeless it can feel when outmatched by survivors. There have been suggestions in the past to let killers open the gates early and start the EGC when there are still gens left, but simultaneously deactivating any EGC perks like noed and blood warden so that killers have a forfeit option earlier in the match like how survivors frequently ragequit on hook. I've even had a more fleshed out idea:
Have a shrine in the basement that only that specific killer can interact with. If they do, the match ends: all survivors alive escape (including if downed and bleeding out,) and it can not be activated if any survivors are on any hooks. Everybody gets any points they accumulated (including the killer) and any additional bonuses (especially regarding the survival category) are applied as normal.
There's even room for flavor animations for all of these things. The killer could have a first person animation of the entity entombing them for punishment/prep for the next trial, survivors could be pulled into the ground and teleported to the exit gates then flung out of them, etc. Hell, they could use those fancy new wesker animations to do it.
If they're not going to address suicide on hook in any meaningful way, they have to give killers a way to get out of trials without eating a penalty or afking and playing a better game while they wait. They've got to address one or the other if they want pairty in their dc punishment system.
-
For a second I thought it was supposed to be about how bad Sadako is 👻
-
@hastarkis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213261#Comment_3213261
Sorry for the late reply.
Yes, it would stop killers from applying pressure. That's why you can't just remove mid-game deaths, you have to give killers other instruments to apply pressure in a different way. Build-in thanatophobia, build-in Artist's "block gens after all survivors were hooked once" (and maybe not for 30 seconds but until survivors do smth to unblock) and other different things to apply pressue in a fun and not boring way.
Maybe killer could be able gain hook- or time-tokens and light up hexes for those tokens. You can imagine plenty of features and plenty of new perks for that. Also we can then balance game around new conditions and make killers stronger. At the same time camping and tunnelling won't work because camp and tunneling is for eliminate someone to gain advantage and you can't get advantage by this now, you'll just loose. Genrushing won't be possible too if you add build-in balance features to prevent it (you can limit gen repairing speed; or make it more profitable for survs to group up on one gen; or make some gens be blocked by Entity and make Entity change blocked gens after completing one gen to make looking for survivors easier and make it impossible to complete two or three gens in a short time).
And you have to change the win conditions too, of course. You have to base it on hooks or time of the game, for example. It's Dead by Daylight after all, maybe survivors need to do smth before Daylight or they'll die? Idk.
So, yeah, it's kinda hard reconstruction the game needs to achieve that. That's my point: in my opinion, those problems (like suicides, camping, tunneling, genrushing and so on) are core things, you can't fix them without either huge re-make of all basics or making experience worse for one (or both) side. Unfortunately.
That's why devs are changing slugging by re-making the whole mori system and adding new features. You can't just remove smth. And you can't just remove suicide button either.
I just had a solution 2 pages back that addressed suicides not corrupting developer data while also lessening their impact on the rest of the game, and doing so in a way that automated most of the process and even allowed for a sliding scale approach to punishment to account for false positives. It got 2 votes up and 0 replies.
You don't need to reinvent the wheel. You just need to put in the simple types of variable storage that should have been in the game since day 1.
-
@Kirahie said:
There shouldn't be a perk that makes killers afraid to swing. And this perk makes killers terrified to swing because of they do, the survivor takes a shot of energy juice and suddenly becomes Usain Bolt and dashes to the other side of the map.
This version of it actually has an answer for that, including when they use a script to auto deadhard: Miss on purpose. Swing wayy over their head. Add another layer to the mindgame instead of lamenting it.
Remember, they can't put down pallets or vault during the animation. block the pallet and interrupt their routing to get a fast vault at a window and suddenly they are dead harding into nothing.
-
@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3214944#Comment_3214944
Yeah, if you happen to look their direction within 36m, outside of a 30-second cooldown.. just make sure you don’t pan that camera too fast!
Wait what? you just have to look in their direction. The cooldown starts if the effect procs. I'm sorry you have to pay attention to get value out of a perk.
Plus it still synergizes with everything I mentioned in regards to spine chill: all that metadata still applies and boosts the info premonition gives considerably. It even gives you a good idea of how/when you're going to get the proc.
-
@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3214649#Comment_3214649
Survivors should be allowed to have a decent anti-stealth perk, if they want to sacrifice a perk slot for it. Spine Chill is balanced, and no longer provides faster vaulting speeds or more opportunities for skill checks.
Premonition is so bad that we can hardly call it a perk.
Premonition literally covers your complaints tho. It tells you exactly what direction the killer is coming from, your only complaint could be it having a cooldown instead of being a 24/7 anti-stealth detection field. Or actually having to turn the camera occasionally.
-
@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213837#Comment_3213837
It's my personal experience and many console players agree on it. When I play killer pc survivors can react to just anything sometimes and even baiting out does not work. But when I play agains't console survivors it's easy to bait. When I play survivor and press it before killer hits I go sometimes down.
So... there is no evidence. I'm inclined to think that the tv/monitor or other factors would have a bigger contribution than the actual platform. If there are any actual input delay tests for the game though I'd love to see them.
-
@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3214058#Comment_3214058
It only soft counters stealth, as myself and others have described above. Calm Spirit stops screaming from Doctor, Urban Evasion soft counters Hag and Pyramid Head. Why are those ok?
because they're so niche they only apply to 1-2 killers each. Hiding your TR is something that multiple killers share, while the perk also provides plenty of benefit vs non-stealth killers as well (vs not disturbing crows and moving slightly faster while crouch walking, not exactly gamebreaking secondary effects.) The devs have said in the past that they do want to break up perks specifically countering only certain killers (like when slippery meat was reworked entirely) So it would be nice if stealth killers got a similar consideration.
-
@Nihlus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3214041#Comment_3214041
But all of what you suggest is also possible without spine chill. I would know where you are if a breakable wall caved in on Windows regardless of Spine Chill.
If I use Spine Chill like you suggest, getting off the gen, sneaking away, etc, then that also happens every single time you come near, regardless of if you're coming for me or not. That means it's pulling me off the gen without even having to do anything.
It's a good perk, don't get me wrong, but it's not like if gives a wire tap like aura whenever you come by.
Spine chill gives killers who purposely shroud their TR... a TR. Thats why it matters when paired with everything I mentioned, you are having the two pieces of info supplement each other to be as efficient as possible. It also uses the other information to address your specific points about not knowing what direction the killer is coming from, since again you can make very reasonable estimations and simply choose to go the direction they can't possibly be able to reach in time.
Not only that, but you can pair the two to get as much distance as fast as possible, even without running. If you're on a map like Midwitch and you see the killer kick a gen downstairs, you have a very good idea of what route they would need to take to reach you upstairs. You can then use the activation of spine chill to see whether they came toward your general direction after the kick, which you then combine with what stairwell/ramp they would have to take to reach you. This lets you gain stupid distance before they get anywhere near you, which you could easily mask to relocate a few rooms over in a more stealthy manner. Or run to the other side of the map and have them take a good 20+ seconds to even be able to start the chase. These applications are all strong and they're not even necessarily bad, but they shouldn't be applicable to killers who rely on not giving that much warning in advance.
Again, its the kind of info that people use all the time when they understand how to make these deductions. You just have to keep ruling out impossibilities until all thats left is the possible.
-
@Nihlus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213240#Comment_3213240
Factually inaccurate. It is certainly possible. Survivor doesn't notice it light up. There's no audio notification. If doesn't make your action progress bar change color like before I less you have line of sight anyway.
Second, they still do not know where you are. Spine chill is also just as likely to have you walk right into the stealth killer as away from. If non stealth killers can get surprise grabs, I think you're fine.
All you need is the smallest amount of secondary info to nullify all of that, though. Comms aside, if you're running a perk like Windows and see a pallet or door aura break, you now know exactly where the killer is and what direction they are coming from and can route accordingly. Empathy? Someone suddenly gets injured and you've got a GPS lock on them. Multiple people running around injured? look for an animation that implies being chased (fast vaults, pallet drops, etc) and you've got your answer. Im sure following this pattern any other aura perks like alert/bond/aftercare/etc should give you an idea.
I absolutely get your argument, but it kinda has a disproportionate affect between high and low MMR, as well as between players who do and don't understand deductive reasoning and game sense. or just comms.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3214012#Comment_3214012
I am happy about the shake up on killer side, despite me being a killer main. I always loved variety more
The best way to shake it up imo would be to make it so that variety is possible in all MMR levels. The game is too "solved" at any given time for high MMR to have that.
The crap part is that every attempt they make to fix it ends up being skill floor adjustments, not skill ceiling ones.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3214004#Comment_3214004
Good point, however let's see about DS right? it was also a hard meta perk and now it's almost gone. Dead Hard was on the same pack with DS in terms of usage almost.
Perhaps they didn't nerf it enough lmao XD. Just saying that would have been more fun to see a whole new meta perk set and to say "bye bye to old one"
DS got replaced by OTR, same with Iron Will since OTR does the work of both and technically does them better. But one aspect they really destroyed what caused a meta was with Ruin and Corrupt, seeing as they're both useless and have no real alternative that addresses why they were run: Early game gen slowdown to prevent survivors starting with burst efficiency. No other perk has really filled that niche, the closest is lethal pursuer leading to faster early chases, but poor killers like trapper and hag have to just deal with how awful their arguibly necessary perks are now.
And ruin can still get clensed 30 seconds in the match, just in case it would have been a wee bit op.
Edit: Should also mention, DS actually isn't bad as it is now either, especially since it can stack with OTR/BasekitBT/etc. The stun duration is short, but all that means is that you plan to go down with it when near enough to a loop that you'd be able to reset the chase after. It even removes the deep wounds which means you can use it to get both basekit BT and OTR/DH/ other endurance effects after DSing them.
-
@cburton311 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213809#Comment_3213809
That's a ridiculous interpretation of what i've said. If the cool down is accidentally triggered and prevents a flashlight save due to the cooldown enforcement, then this change is a bad fix for those players.
BHVR could literally change nothing on the flashlight users side, but only play 1 click sound in a 1 second window on everyone else's pc without changing normal flashlight functions
That is quite literally a skill issue that you're trying to inflate to be equal with an accessibility one. Its one of the few times the git gud meme actually applies. Your skill floor went up slightly so that other people don't get hospitalized. You should be able to understand why your position isn't exactly an empathetic or sympathetic one.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213943#Comment_3213943
Depends on several factors like:
- region
- mmr bracket
- time you are playing.
For my play, as an example I see Dead Hards every game, multiple times used in general just like before the mid-chapter. I believe there is a good amount of players with the same experience so let me tell you, those that say "Dead Hard is meta again" are probably not kidding.
Remember there are 2 different types of complains:
- complaining about a perk being meta (Dead Hard for 4 years)
- complaining about a perk being too strong.
I find myself in the first category. I still completely understand the fact some people do see a shake up in terms of loadout but be aware that MMR is in the game and some people are at the highest level.
The meta in the game will always be about maximizing your advantage while minimizing the opponent's agency and impact. Every meta shakeup is still going to represent whatever best utilizes those concepts. Since the game will never be able to properly balance for both low and high MMR, its basically just musical chairs until they actually normalize any of that unfortunately, and Dead Hard's concept (impact denial) is still the same, it only had its skill floor raised (and technically its skill ceiling, which is why its still very popular in high MMR.)
Tackling metas is tricky, especially in an asymmetrical environment. They're always going to be an indication of what aspects of the game need improvement, and which ones need sanity checks and synergy reassessments.
-
@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213814#Comment_3213814
Well it requires good pc but yeah they can use it after swinging animation starts. But on console if you press it before hit there is risk it will not activate. Sometimes it does and sometimes not. And you probably explained why you have bit more delay.
Do you have evidence of this? Because there should not be anywhere near that much input delay difference between the two platforms, especially since "console" is extremely vague and different consoles will generally have different input delays. You can react to lunges on any platform, but none of them can react to normal M1's, nor are you supposed to. You make reads on when the person is going to swing and press your button when you commit to that guess.
-
@cburton311 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213687#Comment_3213687
Because taking functionality away is never what players want to see. Adding a new feature to improve accessibilty is a positive, but not if they ruin a part of the game that people like
The only thing that has been removed is how obnoxious it is, which has just been lessened. The flashlight's functionality is still exactly the same for all of its intended functions. I don't understand why you would feel like you have any moral high ground regarding this change, Your stance is like a martial artist being upset that throwing sand in your opponent's eyes isn't allowed.
-
@Veinslay said:
Survivors want Sadako to just play like Pig so they can loop her for 5 gens. Survivors need the devs to hold their hands even more out the gate
Ironically Pig actually has more anti-loop than her. The dash is niche as hell in how and when to use it, but its still more effective than the phase intensity spinning back and forth stuff people have been desperately trying to make work.
-
@hatchetChugger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213127#Comment_3213127
If you really think thats griefing, you need a reality check. Its to get the killers attention so you can get chased, or some classic bming which I don't think is a problem.
Which you can still do, it just doesn't click as fast. Is your argument centered around how the tactic relied specifically on how obnoxious the effect was? Thats a pretty big can of worms.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213065#Comment_3213065
Not really, no. It's not that deep.
For the casual player, if the game isn't fun, then they'd rather go elsewhere.
DBD is sort of unique in the fact that either side can simply decide that the other will not have fun. If I lose to a Huntress who is cracked out of her mind and 12-hooked us at 1 gen left, I feel good. Not happy that we lost, but it's chill.
If we get a Bubba who just facecamps the first person he downs, the casual player is just gonna let go.
And what happens when you're a killer who is unable to catch any of the survivors who clearly outclass you, or invalidated your build entirely?
You DC and eat the penalty, or you afk and put your time to go next at the mercy of the other players. Ragequitting on hook doesn't really have an alternative for killers, which is why many people proposed letting them open the exit gates before the gens are powered in the past (while disabling all their EGC perks like noed.) They never got that.
-
Put a check on input during hook stages. If a certain threshold is reached, self unhook potential stops and you have to sit there and wait for stage 2 or be saved. If in stage 2 and no inputs are registered after 2 skill checks, they also stop until being unhooked or sacrificed. You could also tinker with that and make it so that if too frequent inputs are registered, the same happens.
Nothing earth shattering, still leaves 99% of non-ragequit scenarios unaffected, doesn't affect every ragequitter but targets the most common methods of doing it (if you keep the numbers hidden, they can even be adjusted as people adapt and try to get around it,) and gives the other players time to make the save and keep them in the game (or even just make gen progress while they're forced to keep hook pressure.) It should also flag them for review to be matched with endgame reports, so if they get reports for sandbagging they'll also get punished without the end users needing to submit videos and reports, the game already did the record keeping for them to corroborate the reports. Due to the slight risk of possible false positives, it should start lenient and go from warnings to bans as necessary.
People are going to do it anyway, but its not terribly difficult to set up contingencies for that. And for the ones that don't sandbag but just play poorly and get dunked again, thats still more contribution from them than not being in the game at all. It still affects various aspects like map pressure, perks on either side, comeback potential, etc. And most importantly, a change like this gives a very clear message to the players that it isn't sanctioned behavior.
The whole situation kinda reminds me of the old "husk" idea of replacing DCs with the equivalent of an afk player, wonder how that would have affected things instead.
-
@SpaghettiVase said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212998#Comment_3212998
They are changing flashlights to help prevent seizures, thats way too much accessibility changes. They’ll be accused of working too hard and people will start getting crazy ideas that they actually care or something.
To be fair, spine chill worked on stealth killers before any of that snafu, which is part of why its annoying but still essentially the same status quo. Its more that it was almost fixed but then that was walked back. Regardless of their reason, taking care of the hearing impaired is more important, especially with how many sound issues (as well as their importance) are in this game as it is. They could just easily drop it working on killers when they have no TR audible and everyone would be happy and taken care of. Except the people who wanted to use the perk to negate stealth entirely, I guess.
I really hope they make good on their claim to have more built in features to help with hearing impaired players though, its certainly a rough game for them on either side.