RpTheHotrod
RpTheHotrod
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3985159#Comment_3985159
Streetwise didn’t crash the game but this bug was uncounterable and was leading to unfair balance. Last Stand was killswitched because animations didn’t work as they supposed to be.
Is it fine when we have killers in such state for months, when it directly affects on gameplay on both side? Is it fine releasing “bugfix” where the bug they was talking about aren’t fixed?If killswitch force devs work on changes faster, I’ll prefer to ask for this in cases tgey aren’t able to fix such a big issue that lasting for months
See my edit - I covered those killswitches.
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You'll need to explain why it makes the game literally unplayable…from things super bad such as system crashes to things to things not so bad but make matches unable to be played….for example let's say something that causes generators to be unrepairable, survivors being invulnerable, or exit gate interactions not working. Kill switches aren't really for bugs where despite them the game can continue as normal.
The most recent killswitch was implemented after massive community request - the argument being that matches could not be played due to survivors having unlimited charges on items causing gens to be completed before killers could apply pressure. I could see why BHVR didn't believe it was killswitchable, but I could also see why many players felt matches were effectively made impossible for killers. In the end though, kill switch is intended to prevent absolute game blockers from occuring - not annoying bugs causing balance issues. The only reason they ended up killswitching it was the massive amount of backlash they got from it, so they went ahead and killswitched it despite it not being something they'd killswitch under normal circumstances. A bug to fix? Absolutely! However, killswitches are a stop-gap for really bad situations. It's a devtool to prevent worst-case scenarios, not a tool to deal with bugs or inbalance in general.
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Time is a resource in the game. Everyone is on a deadline, including the killer. Any time wasted is great for the opposing side (why looping is so strong). Some perks are powerful, but they are balanced out by a time resource cost. Chests are just the devs way to have that cost realized. It's a waste of time, yes, but that's the point.
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@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3979134#Comment_3979134
fog vials really went from actual fog on the ptb with the iri addon, to decently foggy on release to now just a slight filter change for the killer and survivors. tbh atp i don’t see what’s the point in running them.
I feel it's really for hiding your aura and less about visually avoiding the killer. I typically still bring a medkit, but when I'm tired of the constant lethal pursuer + blight every other match, the moment the match starts, I immediately pop the fog. Instantly counters the perk, and it also counters BBQ - survivor about to get hooked? Pop vial - continue gen while the killer heads straight to someone else's aura read.
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A 60% kill rate means on average flipping between a 2k and a 3k. That maths out to having a 49% win rate on average (62.5k for an even 50% on average). Yes, 4ks can happen, and yes, 0ks can happen. We are talking about the average across multiple matches.
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It's very strong if you use it out of chase. Makes you effectively permanently immune to BBQ and chili so you can keep speed rushing gens, makes you invulnerable to the effects of lethal persuer at the beginning of the match, helps cover your escape if the killer is heading in your direction, helps with unhooking and giving the survivor a better chance at ducking out of danger, and so on. It's weakness is using it strictly in chase.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974186#Comment_3974186
while I do think there should be a set amount of charges, come on let’s be reasonable there’s a giant smoke screen that visually appears announcing where they are. At most it’s something you play around that’s a little annoying. Might as well hang a giant sign above your head that says I’m in this area. Comparing it to distortion just because they both block aura is like comparing haunted grounds to friends till the end just because both make you exposed. Also it covers everyone in it.
Most maps you cant just see line of sight across everywhere. They are usually visual blockers - ESPECIALLY indoors.
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@Rlabotath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973336#Comment_3973336
Here's a perspective from but due to all the changes that slowly made the game unbearable to play as a killer, transitioned to a Survivor main. The fog vials have only two useful functions as a Survivor: pre-throwing them long before a Chase to obfuscate your direction, encouraging the w. Meta, or using the eerie add-on to be able to use it whenever you want, which doubles down on w meta as well. This means that unless you're running the iridescent add-on fog vials cannot be used in Chase for actual effective escapes (barring the use of vaulting a window, a pallet thrown or vaulted).
The problem on both sides, this is uninteractive. As a Survivor, you toss it down to avoid a Chase, which removes the interaction with the killer. As the killer, it's thrown down to keep you from chasing them, wasting your time. The killer side, it's a hindrance that has only negatives, and as a Survivor, it requires little to no skill which makes the game dull and boring.
Although I lost the match, I abused the s*** out of a fog vial without an iridescent add-on to never enter Chase unless the killer found me when I didn't have it off cooldown. Truthfully, the only reason the killer one is because every other Survivor gave up. Beyond the two chases that occurred without me having fog vials, it was the most boring match I've ever played.
It also to straight up delete some killer perks. Beginning of match, immediately toss the vial. You're completely immune to lethal pusuer. Now that killer has 3 perks for the rest of the match and got zero value out of the trade off. Now that all survivors spawn next to each other, this can protect ALL survivors if they stay in the fog at the beginning.
The vial also makes you permanently immune to BBQ and chili, since all you have to do is drop the vial just before someone is hooked. Now you can slam out that gen with absolutely no worries while the killer runs straight to any other survivor after someone gets hooked. This has the same issue that distortion had - it just causes the killer to focus on everyone else but you all game.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972576#Comment_3972576
I don't see the point in speculating on mathematics when everyone has the opportunity to track their personal statistics, and there killrate clearly considers due to how many kills you have. Hatch no matter. Maybe for mmr system, but not for av stats people actually care and thinking of.Because the principle of game design of dbd where it’s 4 vs 1 basically means u can provide the best result only with enough info and being in sfw.
U can try to “balance” this game around solo, but that’s being frankly impossible. After huge period of time A LOT meta perks from killers was nerfed,; anti tunnel, anti camp, anti gen was added, a lot of killers without mobility are extremely weak now. For last few years the only nerfed survivor perk is like completely broken made for this or dh and few others. Less anyway, and the game doesn’t provide any “anti-mechanics” for doing objectives.
It still doesn’t help to killrate however. Moreover, continue focusing “we need to do this against x group” just encourage this group to use extremely unfun methods to win. Because against even mid team, games doesn’t provide ability to use fun way to win. If your opponent plays fine, u knows what he is capable of. A lot of players on killer will unlike to give survivors breath by such reason. Because of anxiety of giving them too much, and later u’ll be punished by complete lose, again and again.
The only who doesn’t care on killer simply doesn’t main killer. Same with killers who don’t care of being tunneled 10 times in a row while playing survivors.I’m pretty sure majority of players don’t like tunneling/slug, but anyway they’ll continue to use it because falsy attempt of improving balance by nerfing “op” side literally provides u no options. And u can’t remove this tactic. Because for devs it means the need to nerf survivors twice at least for making killer be able kill at least one guy. U can try to nerf it, but u’ll always have unbalanced nurse or ghoul that don’t actually care about otr or whatever u have.
And even if u’ll try, u are never able to balance this nurse. As well as winrate for both sides.
When u play as survivor, u blame killer in tunneling or teammate in sandbagging. When u play as killer, u usually blame yourself if u aren’t salty of course. Because everyone telling “your role is so ez”. It’s so ez, but u lost. Such a shame, huh. But explains why killers more concerned and focused on sweaty playstyle and trying to abuse everything for being sure they won’t blame themselves of being unable to carry easy role
People claiming about need to decrease killrate instead of trying to buff solos by info and focus in survivors itself, thats phenomenal. These keeps for years and clearly, doesn’t help. I just wish people for focusing on killers winning less and trying actually to think how balance survivor so they can feel fine without affecting other side. Otherwise, it’s just another rotation in dbd history where first suffered killers, than survs, than killers again and it’ll be endless cycle full of toxicity to each other
Trying to balance around solo is just acting for trouble, aye. I really do wish BHVR would move the game to a team vs team game and balance around the concept of everyone working together. Sure, you CAN solo queue, but you're still going to be matchmade into a team and be expected to work together. If everyone won\lost\tied together as a single team, I feel balancing the game would be a lot more effective. If, in theory, we had the killer have an equal chance to win as the survivors as a team (win = majority ie 3+ kills or 3+ escapes, tie = 2 kill), then each survivor would have a roughly 43% chance to escape. That's a heck of a lot better of an experience than 4 individual survivors with their own win condition which is balanced around a measly 38.5% chance to escape for a 50% killer win rate.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971925#Comment_3971925
It's not inconvenient, it's not applicable.
It's like saying, "well, I have a one in twenty chance to roll a 16 on a fair die, therefore DbD balance." The math you're using here just has nothing to do with DbD. It doesn't model, or resemble, anything we can directly see about the game. It doesn't even come close to how a match plays out, in any way. I could talk about the number of people drinking lattes vs espresso in my local Starbucks and it's equally as irrelevant to DbD as your flipping a coin (even though that's also math).
The apparent goal, every time you do this, is that by skewering the data, you try to take a 60% kill rate and make it look as though killers are the underdog. But they aren't. Not by any metric we have access to. (At least not killers in general, I'm willing to admit that, say, trapper could be a discussion).
You're confusing kill rate (or escape rate) with win and loss rate (which at this point I think is just intentional). You're assuming that every survivor has an equal chance of escaping (which they demonstrably don't), and you're confusing a descriptive percentage as a predictive value.
Currently, kill rate is about 59%, and survivor teams win about 36% of the time (0k or 1k). So since we've been talking about wins, a "fair game" typically will have a roughly equal win/loss rate for each side, with ties coming out of the middle. So, to be clear, you seem to agree with me that 36% win rate for survivors is too low and should be brought up to maybe 43ish%. That would also mean killer's win rate goes down from about 50% to 43%.
But you switch to "kill rates" for some reason, and again, I'm starting to think this is intentional to try and deliberately confuse the issue.
According to BHVR, 4 mans have a 48.2% win rate at experienced levels, not 36%. You're likely pulling from newcomer numbers which yes, killers will dominate at that level - new survivors don't know how to loop and such. You're attempting to skew the numbers by providing numbers where people don't even know how to play yet. "High MMR" doesn't mean professional grade. It's actually very easy to get to "High MMR". High MMR just essentially means a level where everyone is generally experienced. Again, the ~48% are the published official stat numbers from BHVR themselves. As for kill rates, that's because that's how BHVR balances the game. They've clarified this numerous times - survivors are not a team. Otherwise, they would all win\lose\tie together. Their entire balance system is entirely around kill rates and personal survivor escapes. Complain to them, not me. That's just how the game is designed. My numbers are based on the reality of DBD, not how DBD should be in theory according to your preference. If 2 survivors die and 2 escape, which of those 4 survivors did the killer tie with exactly? Did he tie with survivor 1 who died, survivor 2 who died, survivor 3 who escaped, or survivor 4 who escapes? That's right, there are no ties. I don't know how many times BHVR has to clarify this for you to understand - I'm starting to ponder if you're just pulling my leg at this point. Not taking my word for it is one thing, but entirely disregarding BHVR's own statements about how the game is designed is something else. It's 1 killer vs 4 individual survivors that each have their own win condition.
You and I will never see eye to eye on this. My statements are about how the game IS. Your statements are how you (and frankly me too) wish the game was - a team vs team game. However, it's fruitless for me to come here and start making statements and balance about how it would be as a team game when the reality is that it simply is not, so I accept the reality of how DBD is and post accordingly until BHVR abandons the design philosophy that each survivor is their own personal "team" with their own personal win condition.
I am ENTIRELY on board shifting the game to a team vs team game. That allows for ties, and allows for survivors to get balanced around a higher win rate (~43% chance to escape per survivor) which also puts the killer at ~50% win rate. Entirely and totally on board. However, BHVR simply is not.
EDIT - Reference for BHVR's official escape rate stats. Your 36% is nowhere to be seen. You can ignore the reality of how DBD is. I prefer not to. No reason to get upset with me for showing the inconvenient truth of the matter. Get angry at BHVR, not me.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971772#Comment_3971772
Please stop repeating this "forums math".
No matter what the escape rate percentage is, it's descriptive of the state of an average game, and not predictive. This isn't like flipping a fair coin: survivors fall like dominoes because snowballing exists, among other factors.
For example, the first survivor to be chosen to die (by the killer) only escapes about 20% of the time, since 0k is the most rare outcome for a match. And if the first kill happens fast enough (say, with 3 or more gens remaining), the killer has almost guaranteed at least a 3k, barring some extreme set of circumstances. None of that is captured in what you're saying here.
As it is right now, killers "win" (3k or 4k) roughly 50% of the time, and survivors "win" (0k or 1k) about 36% of the time, with the remaining 14% or so being draws (2k).
In an actually fair game, it would be more similar to about 43% for each, with draws taken from the center.
I've personally never seen any other competitive PVP game where not only does your chance of winning really so heavily on whether you're "attacking" or "defending", but you can also choose "always attack" to make sure you are playing on the team designed to win more and never have to "defend".
It's the one (and possibly only) thing that comp DbD tends to get right, which is that each group has to play both as killer and survivor and come out on top to actually beat the other.
We can't ignore math because it's inconvenient. It's the hard truth, and ignoring that is unproductive.
That being said, in a fair game, you are absolutely correct - we would be looking at a roughly 43% escape rate, and I STRONGLY encourage the devs to at LEAST experiment with leaving behind the notion of balancing the game around 4 individual survivors each with their own win condition and instead shift it to a survivor team (who all wins/ties/loses together) vs the killer. That would actually allow for ties, and in turn bring up the balanced escape rate to ~43%. Until then, the balance is a mess and not a fair game.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971769#Comment_3971769
You 4K in under 1 minute? Man, I would love to see some video of this. Even in 3 minutes with your other “non-main” killers is incredibly impressive. The best pro streamers in the world can’t even do that, so we would all love to see how it’s possible for you.
Also, if the game is “dying”, BHVR is loving it and probably wants it to die even more because player counts are at all-time highs.
I mean, it is doubtful all of his matches are under a minute, but an under minute isn't impossible.
If you really want to see one though:
Abandon feature wasn't a thing when I recorded this, but under newrabandon mechanics, this would have ended under a minute. The last person DC'd before i downed the 3rd. The match starts ~8 seconds into the video. Thats every player downed by 59 seconds with the last being a bot.
Granted, this was a bully squad attempt, so they were far more interested in trying to bully than actually be protective of themselves. They weren't used to m1 killers baiting out their tactics and countering them. They even tried throwing in a CJ tech.
https://youtu.be/S6SvH38N7R4?si=4hfcTQgIlM6suQ9UMatch-wise, this isn't uncommon
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@jedimaster505 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971271#Comment_3971271
I keep hearing this "asymmetry" excuse so I will refute it once again. The game has been asymmetrical since 2016, even when it was supposedly survivor-sided and everything in between. Asymmetry has nothing to do with one side being easier or harder to play. It has always referred to the difference in gameplay style between killer role and survivor role, not difficulty imbalance. Even if the game is balanced 50/50, it's still an asymmetrical PvP because one side players killer, and the other side plays 4 survivors.
Releasing new survivor cosmetics is a band-aid for survivor side. If you want a PvP to be fun, you need fairly balanced matches, which means bringing the average kill rates down to 50%, the average escape rates up to 50%, and updating the MMR system so that you get reliable teammates based on an accurate assessment of player skill. Survivors will still struggle against skilled killers. The difference is, skill expression will remain in tact for survivor side, which is what makes any good PvP feel rewarding to play in the first place.
It's 4 survivors against a single player. If each survivor had a 50% chance to escape, then the killer player would be winning in the low 30's percentile. If you want every player to have a 50% chance to win, you're needing something more akin to a 1 on 1 game or a game with an odd number of survivors due to how majorities math works.
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Generally when it's said, it refers to m1 killers with no mobility. They are the weakest possible class of killers. Remember, "weak" inherently is a comparison, as you have to compare it to something else to claim such weakness. Compared to killers like nurse\blight\nurse\and even m1 killers like ghoul that have mobility, they simply underperform drastically hence the weak claim.
Any killer without map mobility is inherently very weak vs ones with map mobility. This creates a grand divide between killers. Once we're looking at all killers without map mobility, many of them have ranged attacks, or otherwise ways to deal with loops such as anti-loop…the others are just m1 killers which have no anti-loop, ranged, and so on….yet another grand divide. This leaves the m1 killers with no mobility as effectively being the weakest kinds of killers. Does that mean they are crap killers? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps they are fine, but the other killers are simply too strong. However, they are clearly weaker than the killers with mobility. Long story short, they may not be "weak" to their job, but they are certainly weak when compared to the other killer options.
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Considering the killer has to face off against 16 perks every match, I feel it's just killers who should get 5 perk slots under one caveat - there should be a limit of how many regression perks can be used at once.
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Yeah, it should. It's an anti tunnel perk. If a survivor managed to get fully healed, they clearly aren't getting tunneled off hook. if you can do a full reset away from the killer, you're back on the menu.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968921#Comment_3968921
I think you're spot on. I'm sure a lot of this rapid self healing and difficulty creating pressure is all spill over from the design switch to dash killers over the past 2 years. Nowadays if a killer doesn't have mobility, they don't sell, and these killers who can move well are always strong.
Since the Wesker-era took over we have more dash killers than ever, and because mobility snowballs pressure so hard, a lot of them keep getting nerfed, such as Chucky, Wesker, Blight, Ghoul, etc.
In the same breathe, non mobile killers have been struggling, snd as such have been getting a lot of add-ons made basekit and otherwise had buffs too. Freddy got more mobility, and we've had buffs to Trapper, Pig, Doctor, Legion, Knight, Nemesis, Myers, Ghost Face etc, etc. We all get little improvements to make these killers better.
Grand, all is well... :
- Dash killers are getting nerfed.
- M1 killers are getting buffed.
However mobility still proves to be king time and time again even with these nerfs/buffs... and so we see a third action being taken...
- Survivors are getting buffed via perks and basekit effects.
Now this makes sense if we look at dash killers and the ever present threat they pose via tunneling and slugging… perks like WGLF, Resurgence, Botany, etc all seem fine when looking here... and a lot of the other perks did definitely need to be buffed for Survivor, because they were weak...
However if we look at M1 killers in the face of all these survivor buffs... we just buffed them to help their pressure... however the survivors get some really strong meta perks and basekit effects now that basically undo their buffs, and in some cases make them even weaker at maintaining pressure than they were before... 😶😶😶
At this point I don't see the problem going away... M2 killers with high mobility is the standard now for new killers... anything that doesn't have that gets dropped like a bad habit... so everything has to be balanced with regards yo this new high mobility landscape... and that means our immobile killers are basically brown bread.
At least Pig is getting mobility buffs... she's been increased while crouching by a whole 10% in 6 months... that's how much mobility is important in this game... this is just modern DBD 😐
Thats why i day they start nerfing mobility killers and stop balancing the game around the expectation that everyone only plays mobikity killers and instead shift the focus back to non mobility killers. Mobility killers should be the rarity to have released, and should come with some significant downsides to balance them out.
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@Brokenbones said:
I'll take a stab at explaining how he's actually pretty balanced and fair (with a few exceptions in certain circumstances)
The Teleport:
- Most of the time the doors are facing generators and if you're on a gen you should really be keeping an eye on it because once the panel starts flickering, that means he has started TPing to that door and you get a big headstart on him. In the event that you don't have line of sight on the door - listen for the audio queue of him emerging from the door instead or listen for the map ambience pausing (not sure if this one is a bug or a feature).
- With headphones I think it's audible enough but I know a lot of people play on TVs and such so that might be a fair criticism.
The undetectable can be troublesome if you aren't prepared for it, but this is usually off-set by 3 things:
- Being vigilant as a survivor, if nobody's in chase pay extra attention to your surroundings
- Keeping track of the teleport indicators mentioned above
- One of Springtraps most popular addons completely neuters it, so there's a good chance a lot of Springtraps aren't even really using it since Bonnie's Guitar Strings is just that good.
The Axe:
- If you have a good amount of distance on Springtrap, he either has to look way up (Which makes him lose track of you) or he won't be able to hit you at all due to the limited range of the axe.
- It's best use scenario is either a survivor right infront of him, so he can close the gap and grab you immediately or using it when you are animation locked, something many killers on the roster already do (And some even better).
- It's a fair point to say it makes camping too easy, I will 100% agree it is next to impossible to escape basement vs Springtrap without someone getting axe grabbed due to the nature of the basement. It's why Huntress/Trickster are really good basement campers too.
The Cameras:
- Yeah, there's no real reason to use them. Completely agree.
- The only time it's decent to use them is either right after you finish a gen and someone's in chase that you wanna try and help out or in the endgame when there's no gens left to do.
Quick correction, the cameras can make survivors practically invulnerable if the chase is at killer shack. Otherwise, it's useful to aid loopers at line of sight breaking loops, but useless in places with no line of sight breakers. Essentially, its usefulness is entirely RNG unless you can communicate with the looper.
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Dashers are too powerful and m1 killers with no mobility are too weak. That about sums it up for me.
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- They need to stop making killers who can dash and cross large distances fast. That just makes unhooking ALWAYS dangerous and at risk of tunneling if blight can just get back within seconds.
- Big change, but as long as the exit gates aren't powered (as in there's still gens to do), once someone is unhooked, that person is shrouded by the entity (because it wants their suffering to be prolonged). For 10 seconds, the survivor becomes invisible to all players, makes no noise, leaves no scratch marks, loses all player collision, cannot be injured, and leaves no blood on the ground. This 10 seconds is to give them a completely safe reset from the hook - making distance from it and giving the killer NO idea where they went. However, during those 10 seconds, the survivor cannot interact with anything or anyone. It's entirely to be used defensively to allow for a reset.
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My issue with running all slowdown is that it teaches you to be too dependant on it and you start naturally suffering in chase, loops, mindgames, and generally game sense since you can somewhat skip out on those if you stall gen progression long enough to where survivors run out of pallets and hook states.
If youre running one gen regression, you have to focus a lot more on other aspects of being a good killer which just naturally makes you a better killer player. Like yesterday during a match vs 2 flashlighters, I had downed someone, and via game sense, instead of picking up, I did a lunge attack along the wall to a corner and smacked an injured iron will flashlight saver right in the face that was hugging the corner. It entirely looked like a cheat, but it just came down to knowing how to cope as a killer with little gen regression - being able to focus on survivor shenanigans mitigation instead of just holding w in chases until bloodlust kicks in while 4 regression perks do all the work.
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I try to play with the enjoyment of everyone involved. I'll give them a good match, but if there are any silly shennanigans going on, I'll run with it to give everyone a fun laugh - a break from the stress of typical gameplay.
Example from one of my matches (and yes I let them escape in the end):
https://youtu.be/goyhXKma2gw -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964971#Comment_3964971
But without a full squad each burning a coin offering, you get one, because there are only three by default. That's what they're saying here.
I think the easter egg chests on Midwich and Nostromo Wreckage don't count towards the total, so two on those maps, lol.
Oh snap, forgot about those two, good catch, ha!
The game is designed around the expectation of swfs, so we have to assume they'll use all tools available to them.
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@NightWolfsFury said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959778#Comment_3959778
You literally get to make a single party pallet each match and that’s it. You have to make an entire rummage build and/or bring coin offerings for more than a single party pallet. It’s going to be one of the worst perks in the game.
There can be up to 13 chests in a map, so you can create up to 6 of them.
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@TicTac said:
I dont know why but im getting really good teammates most of the time. We rarely have a weak link and my escape rate increased from 40 to 56%.
Could be luck, different matchmaking, go-next-prevention, no clue.
With go next prevention in place, survivors are starting to realize, hey, if we actually bother to try, we actually have a lot of power over the killer and the game is a lot more manageable than we thought.
In a 1 v 4 individuals each with their own win condition, that maths out to each survivor needing a 38.5% escape rate to give the killer a 50% win rate (If you count a 3k+ as a win). We are currently sitting, at the mmr where everyone has experience, escape rates for solo/duo/trio all in low 40's and 4 man swfs being at a 48% escape rate. Those are all well above the baseline balance. Now survivors are realizing that if they make the effort, they actually have a lot of potential. Now that stats are live, a lot of survivors are seeing their escape rates are even well above 50%. A lot of the kill counts being reported were simply due to the number of survivors quitting and then screwing over the other survivors. Having a 3v1 from the get go almost guarantees a survivor loss. Now we are starting to see just how weak killers actually are with the exception of broken killers such as blight/nurse/ghoul.
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Me personally, I do these:
If neither of us are in danger, I work on gens.
If the other survivor is being chased, if they are on death hook, I head to known hatch spawns. Otherwise, I attempt a rescue. Next person who gets caught. The other tries for hatch.
If I'm in chase, I try to get the killer as far away from the other survivor as possible. Once hooked, I give up on hook to give the other survivor a hatch chance.
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I'd remove any kind of killer dashes and rework them to go back to the classic style of DBD as non-dash killers but add a unique twist to replace those dashes. We have WAY too much of a divide between killers who can dash and killers who cannot, and the devs keep balancing around the expectation that every killer player plays dash killers which end up hurting the m1 killers even more. Things would be far easier to balance without killers flying around the map all over the place - especially ones that just make a direct 500 mph flight to the hook the moment they hear an unhook notification.
I'd like the game to go back to focusing on the m1 killers and design more like Ghostie\Myers\Trapper\Pig but buff them up a bit and have less killers like ghoul\blight\nurse.
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Juuuust making sure - you're playing standard matches, not the event, right?
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It's true, but frankly it's a better option than survivors being entirely out one survivor.
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@Madmillennial said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962802#Comment_3962802
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962813#Comment_3962813
Wait what?! Dramatic much?! Lmao! Aside from your dumb Disney world reference where I'm stealing from vendors and causing a scene??? Right? You'd know, its your reference.…..
All im literally saying is… there's a thin line here. We can't tell people who buys the game with money how to play for everyone else. Mostly because people have reasons why they disconnect other than the obvious rage.... im an example today… you can't control people. It's not right to dictate how others trest the games they pay for.
Im sorry... I hate to be thst guy. I really do. But my reasons are jo better than yours. I don't care what you say. In the end... we all PAID. WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO WHAT WE WANT AFTER THE PRICE TAG.
You Might not like it. I might not like it. But it doesn't matter. We all paid. You quit. I quit..irrelevant. devs should reverse penalties bc we are all paying customers in the end.
That's not really a valid way to see it. What about cheaters that bought the game? Should they be allowed to fly around and absolutely ruin everyone else's match experience? According to your logic, yes. Reality? Of course not. Even paying for a game, there are rules to abide by, and guess what, people who just give up on hook/DC are also absolutely ruining everyone else's match experience.
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@killer_hugs said:
i'm completely convinced that the developer has given up on the survivor experience. like the game unfortunately is balanced around having at least 3 competent teammates if you're going up against a competent killer. but the MMR system seems to really enjoy thinking 1 or 2 competent teammates is good enough; but this is why even a complete fool like myself has a 75% kill rate across basically every killer in the game. on average I should not be winning my games but i am and honestly that's nonsense. the game used to be funner as a killer when it was more difficult because now so many games are just free wins, so many games are against just horrible survivors that you can't lose. and yeah, you'll go against good teams from time to time and of course i'll lose badly but i know in my next 3 games i'll just an easy win. it's kind of the same situations on survivor except inverse, 1 good game for every 3 horrible games. they've made the game less fun for both sides i think over the years.
I almost play entirely solo queue and never really have these issues people commonly complain about. I suppose this is a higher MMR issue whereby other survivors know what they are doing, but I can only guess. I usually go out of my play to play altruistic. Is this not the kind of thing you're seeing?
https://youtu.be/qWJYi4qz-1w?si=grcIgSjfTICOsOA5 https://youtu.be/SmXWT7gN3qw?si=qDM6r6QzvPeyG3qE -
I mean, there is anatideaphobia - they very well could add a duck stealth killer that stalks.
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Mathmatically, if every survivor had a 50% chance to win (escape, and remember the game is 1 vs 4 individual survivors each with their own win condition) the killer would only get a win (majority of available kills) roughly 32% of the time.
Math isnt for everyone, so do a simple test. Take a coin. It has a 50% chance to be tails (a win) and a 50% chance to be heads (a loss). Now flip it 4 times. It won't be very often you get 3 or 4 tails...and not remotely close to 50% of the time.
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@DBD2025MakesMeSad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961001#Comment_3961001
This is the most unbelievably ridiculous story. NOBODY is running this perk. NOBODY. It is a terrible perk.
The scenario you are dreaming up is perfectly possible right now without this perk in the game. Every single person goes down under a pallet and gets pallet saved, every single time. That doesn't happen though does it?
You have imagined this ridiculous scenario where everyone plays an offering so that someone can make 6 fragile pallets in a match, so that you can cry about a new terrible survivor perk that nobody is ever going to play.
Realistically there is going to be 1 party pallet made in a game provided the survivor gets to the chests first.
Just to add to how silly your scenario is, in the anniversary even where these pallets are given to you for free and actually infinite. Your dream scenario doesn't even happen there. This is an overly dramatised story in the hope you can get a rubbish perk nerfed further. Maybe they will take notice, realise how bad the perk is and completely rework it to be something useful. That is what I would do, more than anything I would do it to trigger you in to making another overly dramatic post about a silly scenario you have cooked up.
Apologies, I was under the assumption we were having a discussion. You're just here to ridicule. Of course no one is running this perk, it's only on the PTB. Nice attempt. We're here to discuss the new perks on the PTB so the devs can make adjustments, if needed. It's a very strong perk, and people already have shown videos on just how ridiculously strong it is. However, considering you're not here to participate in a discussion (the fact you're pointing out that people using this perk at all is a "dream scenario"…come on…I guess the new account with low posts makes sense, now), I won't be continuing attempting to do so with you and will instead continue with people wanting to have a productive PTB discussion on a perk coming soon. Don't bother trying to reply - I won't be seeing it.
Anyway, back to the actual discussion, we've seen a few people point out how this can be used to be completely invulnerable to pickups. While this remains true as SEVERAL people have pointed out in PTB videos which some people pretend don't exist and say it's a fantasy, it should at the very least be considered as being disabled during the endgame collapse, as it is an almost guaranteed escape if a pallet is near an exit gate. Since throughout the match natural pallets will be reduced, survivors can just simply create one near any exit gate. From there, all survivors need to do is go down at that pallet. If killer picks up, stun, and out the exit they go. If instead the killer chases the saver out the exit gate, then the person just picks themselves up and gets a few options for escape such as running to the other gate, hatch, and so on. This perk essentially forces the killer to slug, but the perk in itself punishes for slug. It's just a lose-lose situation. The killer can't possibly pick them up, and if they leave them, they get themselves up. This is, once again, a perk that highly discourages killers from hooking survivors. Not only does it make hooking them impossible, but not hooking them is punished.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961035#Comment_3961035
I appreciate the openness on that and believe me, I can understand where feelings of concern around balance can stem from. While I can't always promise what an outcome will look like, you better believe we're here to make sure folks' feedback makes it back to the team.
And on that note, I can confirm that we've taken note of feedback around the iri add-on and stacking for the Fog Vial. Outside of those two points, how are you feeling about the item so far?
Honestly, and maybe an unpopular opinion, I love them. Heck, the fog vial from the event I really enjoyed. That's mostly because I really like mindgames in the game (while I play mostly survivor atm, my killer main is a p100 ghostie, so mastering mindgames is a must to succeed). On survivor, I love running stuff like Deception or Red Herring, so this fog vial is RIGHT up my alley. Back when we had the fog vial from the event, sometimes I'd break a vial somewhere where my retreat ISN'T just to make them think I went running off in that direction when reality I stayed in place nearby or ran off in a completely different direction and just used the fog as a decoy. While it's less viable to do so with these newer vials, I suspect we'll be able to pop the vial to get the killer's attention. Someone working on a vital gen or healing somewhere? Pop the vial off to the side to steer the killer's attention to it and away from your vulnerable buddy. Lots of potential even out of chase, I say.
Next time there's a Light's Out mode being considered, how about a Fog's Out mode? I think it would be interesting to see a lot more fog in the game for sight blocking instead of the pitch black like Light's Out. Bear in mind, I mean the non-iridescent and non-event fog vial we have on the PTB….you can make things out…kind of, as opposed to being completely blinded by it. More creepy.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960362#Comment_3960362
I promise you, there's no disrespect intended for Killers from our side. PTBs are intended to be a space where we present changes to the community to go hands-on with and share their feedback on. Just because something makes it to the PTB, doesn't mean that's the precise state it will then make it to the live game in.
We've been closely following community feedback on these 3 topics (among many more, of course), and have been sure to share this feedback with the team.
While I totally get that it can sometimes be frustrating to come face to face with changes that you don't vibe with, believe me, sharing constructive feedback on what does or doesn't feel good is immensely helpful to both us and the wider dev team, as it helps inform further balancing adjustments.
While I mostly agree here, and we certainly appreciate your openness to even have a PTB (seriously), we've been burned before on the PTB. Easy example was the slew of negative feedback that was provided about the original Made For This, and despite the amount of negative feedback, it still went live, and it took almost a year before your team got around to finally admitting it was problematic and balancing it. That was a year of hell for m1 killers with no chase powers - killers who are already the weakest in the game. PTB changes, despite the promises of "we'll keep an eye on it" has burned us many times before.
That being said, I do APPLAUD y'all coming up with a new item (the fog vial) to try to add to the basegame. While I feel the iri addon is very problematic, along with being able to stack their effects together, it's nice to get something "new" to add a new dynamic to the game. I'm tired of just bringing a medkit or toolbox every match, ha. It's also nice to see keys and maps have a purpose now. That means less toolboxes and medkits constantly. While this is all technically just buffing survivors, an already strong role, I feel it may still help alleviate pressure for killers indirectly by there being less gen rushing and sabos and free self heals.
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@DBD2025MakesMeSad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960299#Comment_3960299
You are really not understanding. You can make 1 fragile pallet after opening 2 chests. So basically 1 pallet per game. How is that infinite? Do you understand what infinite means?
These pallets are crap in the event where you can make loads without a perk slot being used. Nobody is using this perk. Nobody.
I suppose I didn't take your personal match lengths into consideration - my bad. My matches on average are around 10 minutes long - sometimes going to 15. The "hard limit" of available pallet re-creations would never be realistically reached within that time period unless you're trying to do some sort of Guinness world record and just sitting there constantly trying to create fragile pallets, destroy them, and rebuild them again, but at that point you're not actually playing the game as intended. So yes, by someone gamethrowing and just constantly trying to spawn and destroy them instantly instead of playing the match, in that specific scenario you've created, yes it isn't infinite. Also yes, if your finding your personal matches are taking an hour long for some reason, sure you could hit the limit. However, I'm talking about playing the game, not someone gamethrowing, and I'm also talking from my personal experience that matches on average never go beyond 15 minutes. However, even if your personal matches are taking an hour long for some reason, eventually the killer will stop trying to pick you up once he knows what you're doing, so that's even less fragile pallets destroyed which means no need to make more, so once again, your "limit" is never getting reached.
So to be clear, I'm talking about being realistic, not creating edge cases that don't occur in natural matches. By the time matches end, there's usually still a small number of pallets left. Considering the time it takes to chest hunt, and the time it takes to run through all pallets, AND considering the killer will quickly realize you're immune to being picked up and the fragile pallet simply EXISTING and not even being used is enough to give you godmode, you should never realistically run out of pallets and fragile pallets, hence the infinite statement. There's plenty of normal pallets, and when all the good ones are gone, you can realistically continue to generate fragile ones out of the god pallets until the match ends (frankly, god pallets don't matter - any pallet works for the going down "technique", even very weak pallets). Again though, my experience is matches usually end within 10-15 minutes. Your acting like you'll hit the limit, so if your matches means you keep having several birthdays every match, then yeah, you'll hit a limit.
So now you understand that realistically you can just keep recreating pallets, what's going to happen is people will just go down at a pallet - not drop it, just go down at it. It's a safe zone. The killer cannot pick them up if you have a buddy with you. If by some bizarre circumstance the killer does pick you up, the pallet just stuns them, and you're free. Afterwards, you just rebuild it (assuming it's still a good place to do so). You'll pretty much never hit your limit because
- Match length
- Killer won't just keep picking you up once he figures out you're immune to being picked up
So considering in normal matches where a world record isn't being attempted, you'll have an infinite supply of fragile pallets - mostly due to the fact that you'll have no NEED to re-create many unless the killer isn't too bright and seriously keeps picking you up just to get pallet stunned.
Originally, we had this tactic already with power struggle and flipflop. The balance here is that the killer would effectively HAVE to eat the pallet (or play the slug bleedout game), but it would permanently remove that pallet. Over the course of the match, pallets within range of gens would eventually just go dry, and that tactic wouldn't work anymore. However, now, survivors can just simply rebuild them. Eating the pallet would be a disaster for the killer since it's no longer permanently removing that resource. It's a lose-lose situation for the killer. If the killer DID eat the pallets, then with zero gen pressure, the match will conclude pretty quick…unless you're just a bully squad, but again, that's not participating in normal gameplay - trying to extend the match as long as possible. If you're going out of the bounds of normal gameplay, those fragile pallets will no longer be infinite, naturally.
EDIT - Just doing your math for you. You can have up to 13 chests in a match. If you're seriously blowing through all of those fragile pallets and hitting the limit, then you have a very dumb killer (which you'll win anyway), or someone's intentionally wasting them.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960250#Comment_3960250
But you can‘t create infinite fragile pallets and even when this was the case, it would only happen once to you and then you bait them into dropping the fragile pallet after which you down them again or you pick them up before they do it.
Still not sure you're understanding. You don't use them to drop on the killer to stun them in a chase. There's no baiting involved. As an injured survivor, you run to a pallet, then you stand there. Either the killer downs you, or he leaves you. Either way, you win. Once you're downed, they can't grab you with your buddy nearby. If they dare, they get stunned. If they run after your buddy, you simply get up (with the new perk), or you power struggle if they come back to get you. If the killer is silly and does pick you up, they get stunned, you escape. Now you can come back and rebuild the pallet. Rinse and repeat. If they dare pick you up, either your friend pallet saves, you power struggle, or you use the new perk and get away. If the pallet is destroyed, then you can just create another fragile pallet.
The whole downside to fragile pallets is that they are destroyed once dropped. You can entirely disregard this downside if you instead use it to go down at instead of trying to use it in a chase where (as you mentioned) baiting is necessary. Skip that entirely - simply go down at the pallet. Now you can't be picked up without the killer getting stunned. At the moment, the game is balanced around the idea that while you can guarantee yourself safety at any pallet by going down at it, it permanently uses that pallet resource, and as the match progresses, less and less pallets are available. However, now, you can just keep recreating them. You DO NOT drop them in chase. You instead just go down at them. The entire downside to fragile pallets are non-existent if you use them in that manner.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960100#Comment_3960100
The perk that rebuilds pallets does only rebuild party pallets. They break when dropped. They are in no world good and very easy way to deal with. Also the survivors don‘t have infinite pallets, it would be like 1-2 more party pallets. No one is gonna use them.
I think you didn't read my whole message. For chases, they arebt that useful. However, they are gold for anyone going down at the pallet. The killer can't pick up if anyone is nearby, and that then in turn activates the mini unbreakable perk (or power struggle). You can generate infinite uses of this. Usually you can only pull this off once per pallet, but being able to create fragile pallets, you have an infinite supply of god mode.
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Having a mini-unbreakable that activates after being slugged for just a few seconds (what is it, 8 seconds?) is pretty unbalanced, and that's coming from someone who plays both sides (more survivor than killer these days). If someone goes down at a pallet, the killer typically needs to check the area to see if anyone will save, and if there is someone nearby, picking them up quickly isn't an option, at all. Same with people nearby with flashlights - picking up quickly isn't an option as experienced survivors won't go down near walls to face on pickup. This effectively means by having this perk equipped, as long as they had even tapped someone with a heal (ie a survivor can heal to like 95% then have their 3 buddies finish off the heal to give them ALL the effect), this effectively means they will be immune to getting picked up.
In the endgame with open gates or 99'd gates, this also means guaranteed escapes if they even manage to down someone if they are near a gate. Again, while pallets existing will break the balance with this perk, even without a pallet, flashlight savers will absolutely buy enough time for the person to pick themselves up then run to a safe loop or to the exit gate. There's no counter play. Killer's can't pick up the person within the amount of time before they can pick themselves up if someone is nearby because of pallet\flash saves - killers need to spend the time chasing off the saver. This is a lose lose situation and completely invalidates the time spent even getting the down to begin with. This also especially would be disastrous on m1 killers with no chase powers or map traversal. They have to fight tooth and nail for their downs - they need every single down to count since the game is already working against them.
What's going to happen here is people will simply run to pallet, get downed, and have a buddy nearby. This makes the downed survivor completely immune to getting picked up due to a pallet save. So, the killer must chase off the buddy, but now the downed survivor is guaranteed to get up for free, run a far distance, then go down somewhere of their choosing to get picked back up (OR just plot-twist to pick themselves up for free since the broken status disappears). This essentially makes every pallet in existence a god pallet, because as long as you have a buddy nearby to save, you will NOT get picked up and hooked, ever.
Now why as a survivor player am I saying this is a problem? The game should be about successful chases, mindgames, and loops, not just make a b-line to a pallet and go down intentionally since you know you're now immune to being picked up. Again, to reiterate, if you go down at a pallet with a survivor nearby, the only option the killer has is to leave you downed and chase the saver. Since you can now just simply pick yourself up after seconds, the killer either commits to the other person, or tries to come back to you, but you already are gone. If they commit to the saver, then that saver will simply do the same, go down at a pallet, and now he's also immune to getting picked up if there's a survivor near him. Considering you only need to finish a survivor heal, survivors can easily ensure everyone has this perk activated almost all the time. Just be injured, self-heal to 95, then your group just finishes the heal and now 3 people have it and you can indefinitely chain this pallet immunity. Once the downed survivor pick themselves up and run and go down somewhere else (naturally another pallet), they'll need to get healed, and the effect is now activate again for all the healers.
Frankly, this is strong enough to be a once a game effect. Completely have the ability to eliminate what would be a hook state on you. Not to mention now there is a perk to re-build pallets - you'll have a near infinite number of pallets available to go down at even towards the end of the match. Killer shack pallet, for example, will ALWAYS be up, now. While those "fragile" pallets won't be as useful in a chase, they will be god mode for going down at.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958840#Comment_3958840
No, I completely understand what you meant. And you were talking about Compensation and Killers got Compensation in the same Patch.
They removed the ability to kick Gens an unlimited amount of time and as Compensation, Kicks were made stronger and Survivors cannot tap the Gen to stop Regression (something which you ignore btw., it is VERY impactful that Survivors cannot tap the Gen mid-chase anymore to stop the Regression, they have to repair at least 5% to stop the Regression).
So you were asking for Compensation, but you already got it. And the Compensation was better than what Killers actually lost, since the Regression Limit is completely irrelevant most of the time, unless you go for heavy 3-Gens from the start.
The issue is some killers can't afford to kick gens, and it's always the already weak m1 killers who don't have map traversal. Due to this, they usually need to run surge, but surge can lock up a gen excessively quick. I have personally seen a gen lose nearly half of the allotted regressions events within 20 seconds just because of bad survivor play, but naturally the survivors had unbreakable, so only one hook was gained by it all while the gen is already halfway being permanently blocked within the first few minutes of the game.
The regression limit negatively affects the killers who are already weak. They already can't afford to patrol gens super far away. Survivors know this and will lwave those far gens last. This means the only place survivors are, and the only place gens are getting done are in the central part of the map. That means those weak m1 killers with no map traversal are effectively forced to focus on a smaller number of gens, and with perks like surge, have a much higher chance at reaching the limit than stronger killers...even if they aren't even close to doing 3 gen camping which is, per the devs, was supposed to only kick in to punish killers who refuses to participate in normal gameplay by sitting at gens and refusing to do chases and hooking.
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On maps with a lot of openness where line of sight isnt easily broken, they are borderline useless. However, on indoor maps and around killer shack, they are absolutely brokenly useful. Having the killer's aura revealed in indoor maps and at killer shack can practically guarantee the safety of any survivor half competent at looping. Being able to counter the killer's every movement is fantastic, and im always grateful when im at shack looping him and someone reveals his aura through the cams. Springy usually gives up and leaves the shack at that point due to a lot of wasted time and pressure free gen progress.
In the end, it's maps dependant. Next time someone is bringing him to shack, just pop over to a nearby gen camera and reveal him and watch the shenanigans ensue.
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One problem BHVR faces is that cheaters can force cheats on other players. They can force other survivors to auto unhook themselves, instantly drop off a kilers shoulder, and so on. They need to avoid getting innocent people banned even if it means being less effective at getting rid of cheaters. Thats why they say they need video proof - they need to see the cheaters use in context.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957424#Comment_3957424
Moving him 16 meters away does not fix that issue. You are still dead if you go for the save, he has no reason to leave that 16m radius AND he'll likely down both the rescuer and the rescued Survivor.
The way I see it is this:
IF AFC was designed to just remove the act of facecamping while not actually fixing any of the scenarios it caused, then it works as intended.
IF AFC was designed to limit no-win unhook scenarios, then it is not working as intended, since MANY Killers are completely unaffected by it.
I don't see many issues now that AFC is a thing with bubbas. He can't just literally sit there and press a button and get guaranteed downs. He HAS to be on the move and chase someone, and unless all the survivors are surgically attached to each other, him getting them all down won't be easy for him. It makes a huge difference that he actually has to be on the move with AFC being a thing. Have someone bait his chain saw. If he gives chase, the other person unhooks for free. If he immediately goes back for the hook, his chainsaw will run out before he can down anyone and you can go for a quick standard save attempt.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957413#Comment_3957413
Will sound childish, but WHY did we want to prevent facecamping?
Because certain killers, cough Bubba, could force a no win situation on rescue attempts. With his aoe one shot, no one can take a hit and a followup person getting the unhook. Essentialy, a facecamping bubba meant that person wasn't getting rescued. With some distance from the hook, there's some actual counter play since the bubba can't just sit there and spam his chain saw forcing people to come to him. Instead, he has to move around and chase which gives time for others to come in for the rescue. It turns one singular point where everyone must come to him to a more broader area where he can't simply hit multiple people simultaneously by standing in one place. If he sticks around the hook for too long, they'll unhook themselves. If he puts some distance, then sure he can chase off one rescuer but it leaves the hook open for the followup unhooker.
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Some sort of forum bug, won't let me edit. That last part is supposed to say it was mostly designed to simply stop BUBBA facecampers.
I also really like it because if I'm playing killer, I can help survivors who are being trolled by their teammates by leaving them to die on the hook by standing right up against the hook so they can unhook themselves.
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I feel it's been an excessively successful feature. Since its implementation, I have only seen exactly 2 killers face camping before the endgame, and both didn't achieve anything from it due to the self unhook.
Keep in kind the whole system was mostly designed to simply stop
facecampers.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
I play strictly solo queue when playing surv and have since 2020 (when I started playing survivor), and more and more surv each year since. I've played 3-4 matches not totally on my own, and all of them were years ago. According to DBD's stats, my global escape rate is just a hair under 40%.
Still pretty good. A balanced escape rate having 4 people who are allied with your side vs a singular common opponent is 38.5%, so youre above the baseline.
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Survivors only have to worry about a few things, and its mostly just either knowing when to do gens or how to effectively loop. Killer has to constantly try to keep track and best guess what 4 other players are doing at all times while needing to balance chase time with gen tracking 7 gens, and trying to figure out and work around going up against 16 different perks. Killer just has a LOT to keep track of, and unless they manage an early kill, all while the game is stacked against them. The game is balanced around a 60% kill rate - that's a bit over a 2k (50% kill rate) on average and not even halfway between a 2k (50%) and a 3k (75%).
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@Alice_pbg said:
the duality of man?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WWFVS2S67QHD/image.png
seriously… 2 threads apart…
All about mmr differences. The game is killer favored at low mmr and survivor favored at high mmr. The pendulum swings far and wide.
Then you have blight/nurse/ghoul who are just broken at all MMR and throws it all out of whack.