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@28_stabs said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/957/A0L38ZCKHOZE.png
Do devs think that chasing survivors is not a challenge anymore?
What next, devs will add a skill check to put survivors on hook? :D
Boil Over Rework: Must hit a Great Skillcheck to hook the survivor. Failing to hit the great skillcheck makes you have to wait 3/4/5 seconds until the next hook skill check prompt.
😂
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If I had to guess, and its a guess because it doesn't apply to me, its because the game has hooks that one would expect out of an mmo. In particular the brutal amount of time in unlocking all the perks and then spreading them around to each killer. A lot of people fall prey to sunk cost fallacies in anything where they feel like they also 'put in work' beyond just playing the game.
And so there's an invested interest in things being fixed to where they enjoy it again. Add in that this game is a Cauldron of Salt on both ends fairly frequently and 'feedback' on a sort of slow development cycle (especially one as left field as the current one when many complaints are games are too fast) leads to a lot of vitriol.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/986091#Comment_986091
I agree with much of what you said.
My one thing is that, I don't know what it's like on PC, but in low ranks on PS4 I rarely see Ruin. Even according to the devs, while over 80% of red rank killers use Ruin, only 45% of all killers use Ruin. If we assume they really mean "all killers," then that's still including the 80% in red ranks, which means fewer than 20% of killers use Ruin outside of red ranks. I'm sure the lower you go in ranks (i.e. the newer the players), the less you see Ruin due to it being a teachable perk rather than in the general pool.
Yeah. Its pretty much why Trapper is the most universally played for much the same reason. "The Default Character". That said even though I'm totally willing to see Greats go I don't think they need to leave entirely for people who prefer that style. I imagine they could, if they wanted to keep the feature attach it to Technician or something similar to where Great checks are added and grant 1/1.5/2 seconds and thus make a Gen Jockey perk that's barely used suddenly have some appeal. Then at least if these gens are done a little faster its an investment like Autodiadect is an investment.
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I won't miss Hex Ruin at all because it wasn't fun and likely chases away new players before they get to the fun progression loop of the game; which is unlocking and experimenting/mixing and matching powers and perks.
That said Hex Ruin was also not needed against lower ranks for a number of reasons; among them being a lack of focus on objectives, chases being finished earlier, missed skillchecks and too many relying on stealth gameplay. Note this isn't a slight against stealth gameplay but rather people who are new hiding anytime they hear the terror radius playing despite the fact that its playing near them not because the killer is approaching but because they're chasing someone else nearby. In this situation, all Hex Ruin did was create an overwhelming stomp.
On the other hand higher ranks suffer from people who are very good at managing time and pressure, and both sides are not necessarily even when it comes to applying pressure.
When one person works on a generator providing they hit nothing but good skillchecks they complete it in 80 seconds. When two work on it, 44, which is a 1.8 rate. The rates past that are 'eh' and not worth considering, especially if you factor in Prove Thyself, which then suddenly makes it a 2.0 rate for 40 seconds.
Now what is something veterans are better at? Hitting Greats. This is why people say good players 'power through' ruin. But even in this scenario, Ruin still provides a service; it removes the benefits of landing a Great. Outside of ruin you speed progression up by 2 seconds per Great. On average a skillcheck is about every 8 seconds or so; sometimes more, sometimes less, but that's the general tested average without perks such as Spine Chill muddying the waters.
So doing a generator by yourself is around 8 skillchecks. That's potentially 16 seconds reduced. The 1.8 rate I mentioned earlier? Well, now you have potentially two skilled people getting great checks. So now you have a 40-44 second gen also getting 8 skillchecks, which is even more impactful if they're doing well. Ruin stops these bonuses.
I wouldn't propose that base generator speed needs increased, but Greats are very polarizing when it comes to how lower ranked games take time and red ranks don't. They should probably be sunset'd.
As for earlier claims of not even on when it comes to applying pressure; map design, yeah. There's a reason Nurse (despite her nerfs), Billy and Freddy remain praised. When Red Forest loads up and up to two survivors spawn near each other on a generator there's no 'git gud' about taking any killer without a transportation power and reaching them before the generator pops. There's no 'apply pressure' either. There's "man, I sure hope they 3-gen themselves by being greedy" and that's about it.
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@Peanits said:
The worst that comes to mind is combining it with Surveillance. Any time a generator is being worked on, I would know. The instant you get off it, I'd know. Normally cleansing Ruin is the only way to counter that, so removing the hex aspect means that the killer always knows where you are and has no counter.
No offense but this just doesn't feel like a good reason. If this is the big 'problem' that's making you reluctant from prying Ruin off of a Totem ability and making it reliable then the solution becomes pretty simple; Nerf Surveillance. It wouldn't even feel like a nerf in the first place because as it is no one currently regresses generators without kicking in the first place unless they use Surge; an already barely used perk from a fairly unpopular killer on top of it. Not to mention that this Ruin/Surveillance synergy is already potentially making Surge an even worse pick on top of it since it doesn't work.
Ruin is used as early game pressure. But now its being toted as a late game pressure tool when Totem's are usually pretty awful at it. Devour Hope most of the time is a pipe dream than a reality, and even in those games they still often use Ruin on top of it.
This? https://clips.twitch.tv/CautiousPluckyNostrilPunchTrees
This is not an end game perk. This is not something that will reliably help pressure. Even worse, with Surveillance by the devs being mentioned repeatedly you're now stuck in a build that when totem explodes consists of a perk you might not have cared otherwise about without said synergy. Its not like this is just a cherry picked clip either; last game I was in was a Bedham where I went into Shack with a generator and the guy's ruin was illuminating god-pallet. That's hardly a hiding place. I hadn't even touched a gen yet to know if ruin was even going before I cleansed it.
As an fyi, skill disparity is the big problem with ruin. It destroys new people who likely wouldn't even need ruin to win against, and it barely gives enough time against skilled people who can 'power through it'. These people power through it because they hit greats reliably. 44-80 second gens subtracting 2 seconds repeatedly from 1-2 survivors on a gen makes these things pop lightning fast. If you don't want to add time to generator's (and who does, really? M1 simulator is boring) Great's really need to go. Then at least objective times will be sort of similar.
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Removing Great Skill checks. The simple truth is Ruin doesn't feel needed in lower ranks, but in higher ranks it does. People counter argue that "Well higher ranks can power through it", and that's actually pretty true; but even when they choose to go that route, it still stops bonus progression from Greats.
And if someone is good at reliably hitting Hex skillschecks, that means they're also good at hitting Greats. Which means without it, they blast through a generator.
Base time is fine. Skill check bonuses are the biggest polarizing thing about generator speeds.
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Surely this was a bait post the moment Borrowed Time was mentioned.
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@_VTK_ said:
The official kill rate in red ranks is almost 70%. The game is killer sided, yet so many baby killers complain about ruin being nerfed. Just stop, you are winning way too many games already. You don't deserve 4k every game. And if you can't get 3k on average, you are just bad, because judging by stats most other killers can. Practice more and stop acting like babies.
Your post is why many devs or even statisticians get reluctant to pass on their data; by people's sheer inability to read them and infer anything from the data.
Gee, what were they testing last month that was highly criticized by the community as being a problem for the past three months? Disconnects? Hmm. What happens when a person disconnects? Oh, they die? Hmm. Could it be when a Ghostface wanders up and grabs a Salty Immersed Claudette off a generator, her "hur hur I'm entitled I DC now" counts as a kill and it cascades into a 4k because she ruined the match?
Nah. Unrelated I'm sure. Those stats totally aren't inflated by other issues plaguing the game.
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I'm honestly annoyed that the concerns about Ruin are tied to "But it synergizes with Surveillance!" when that synergy can be broken at any moment via totem or even better that Surveillance is tied to a copyrighted $ killer which means its not an iridescent shard option. I already have Pig, so its w/e, but its cute that the synergy just happened to end up being attached to a pay wall.
"Oh but there's the Shrine", lol have fun waiting around. What was it for those people, a year for BBQ and Chili? "Random".
That said I hate Ruin. I either consistently land checks or I don't and in either case its annoying in general. I won't miss it. But I'm also aware of why it existed, and ripping the bandage off before treating the gaping wound that is base Generator speed (or more importantly in higher ranks Great Check progression speed) is just asinine.
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@Kagrenac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/363114#Comment_363114
They could always just have more perks appear on the bloodweb to lower the grind.
2 per bloodweb at level 20-29
3 at level 30-39
4 at level 40+
I would prefer the opposite. Remove tier 1 & 2 of perks and make 3's baseline. Blood webs only spawn one perk at a time, with a small to medium increase in cost. There are 62 perks for survivors and 57 for killers after the next chapter comes out; more than enough to exceed a max level blood-web.
Even if they kept the same system where the character knows their teachables, that's still 59 & 54 for each character to unlock and possibly prestige three times; and sure, that does cut down some grind, but said grind is exponential in depth each time another combination releases as it is. And add-ons, especially for killers have pretty good value even for maxed prestiged players.
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Personally the only thing I'd want to see on Freddy is some ability to close a chase. I'm not even against people disrespecting him while they're falling asleep so long as he can setup for it. Case in point: If Dream Demon let you block one window for a set amount of time with a CD for anyone in the dream world, it would stop people blatantly working on a generator in your face while starting to doze or anything else of the sort.
It would also fit his theme of manipulating the dream world while nothing is going on when awake, and the fact that he's supposed to be clever rather than brute force. Hell, it even ties in to his perk that blocks the exit gates.
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@MhhBurgers said:
I'd like BBQ's BP gain just as a killer passive to give me an incentive to not tunnel the crap out of survs. I actually hate using the perk all the time, it kills build diversity for me and BBQ often does nothing except for a miniscule BP gain.This sums up my feelings entirely. I couldn't give a damn about the aura on either killer or survivor; there's counterplay, and if people can't figure that out then that's their problem. I acknowledge on Killer it would still be a strong perk on Billy, Nurse, Spirit, and possibly Wraith. The points component is what's really shoving it into every build. If bloodpoints were more rewarding without it you'd see more build diversity and frankly it would still be a good perk on fast killers.
In my case I'm not asking for a nerf. I'm wanting builds to be less chained to this crap because of a BP bonus. WGLF is even worse because it screws a team over by offering literally nothing tangible. Its just as stupid. Moving the points from the perk would be liberating; and if you want to encourage the behavior of hooking each person once then that can be criteria for the hunt for that bonus.
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Unfortunately as much as I love the game I agree with that form of cynicism. There's genuinely no other reason to lock the community's main form of points progression; especially behind DLC. In my case I'm just annoyed that BBQ feels almost mandatory in my builds or the game's reward structure suddenly feels like its cut in half; more if add-ons are used.
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Perks that exist to only give you points shouldn't exist in the first place. In We're Gonna Live Forever's case it encourages not only farming teammates, but inherently brings nothing to the table and weakens you as a team. In BBQ's case even if you prefer other tracking perks you feel more compelled to use BBQ just because you want your score to be impactful.
I'd much rather they remove the point gains from both perks and bake it in baseline to the trial and simply give We're Gonna Live Forever a benefit of some kind in relation to what it's supposed to encourage. BBQ's aura would still have some people, especially faster killers take it. Then everyone wouldn't be compelled to take BBQ just to get decent progression and there would be more build diversity.