PandaChris
PandaChris
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Its simple. Most people dont want to play the same killers over and over at red ranks. Most killers dont want to deal with a higher percentage of stressful games at red ranks.
Survivors can defend not having any adjustments to SWF. Survivors can ask for nerfs to the higher tier killers because they are unfun to play against. But then they got to realize as its being shown at red ranks, the majority of killers are finding it unfun to play as killer or less fun to play as killer. So, Survivors will have to put up with longer queue times because of the nerfs, the unviable low tier killers and the SWF stress. Just how it is.
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@ygnea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/864779#Comment_864779
Adrenaline is a reward for doing your objective, just like devour hope or other perks are. Who said I'm for keys? This isn't even about hatch. Nice argument bro.
Noed is a reward for killers for survivors not doing their objective. Just like how Adren is a reward for survivors for killers not doing their objective. The point is both sides have it. Nice argument bro. Cant defend Adren and hate on Noed.
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@John_Doe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/864772#Comment_864772
If you read the thread instead of writing nonsense you'd save yourself from looking stupid just saying
Says the guy who creates an entire joke thread about getting Ghostface legioned.
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@ygnea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/864595#Comment_864595
Yes, let's punish survivors for doing their objective and buffing the killer for failing theirs! Epic! :)
Adrenaline and keys/hatch mechanics would like to have a word with you
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The prophecy was for told that after Nurse was nerfed that the survivors blood lust for nerfing killers shall not be quenched so easily anymore and would only intensify after each killer nerf they get.
The survivors set their eyes on Spirit next but this time before the nerfs could even go to live servers, the survivors bloodlust for nerfing intensified even more and couldnt be controlled.
The thought of complaining about nerfing 1 killer at a time and waiting for it to go live could not satisfy their blood lust anymore. "Why wait for 1 nerf to go live when we can already complain and try to get other killers nerfed right away" they thought to themselves. Their cravings for nerfs cannot be stopped now, no killer is safe....farewell Ghostface and Freddy, farewell.
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My favorite response so far from a survivor guy in this thread is "know when to cut chase". Okay sure, so what happens when a generator is near a god loop. Its either chase the survivor around and around till other gens get done or cut the chase and give that survivor a free gen cause there is no use chasing him.
Thrilling game balance there. A lose lose situation.
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At this point they might as well just add voice comms with a mute function if someone is being rowdy.
Good luck giving killers anything afterwards though to balance everyone having voice comms. When someone even mentions any change to SWF or compensation to the killer when they face SWF its complained about how unfair it is.
SWF is basically all advantage without a disadvantage or compensation to solo survivors or killers. But I doubt it will ever change because its been enjoyed like that for so long by survivors and any change is deemed as "punishment for playing with friends" rather than noticing there is no downside and it needs balance.
I have read on here even something as small as allowing solo survivors and killers to get more BP as "punishment for playing with friends" because the SWF group arent getting the same amount of BP.
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I think gen tapping through ruin is about 60 seconds slower. But i think thats compared to not missing any skill checks while powering through ruin. No idea the times if you miss a few skill checks.
It comes down to is it okay to avoid game mechanics like skill checks if it takes about 60 seconds longer.
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@gamerscrybecauseofme said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/855015#Comment_855015
Overcharge and brutal strength are a counter to gen tapping in chase.
Next!
Um...you dont know how the overcharge skill check works....you can keep running and hit it. So how does overcharge counter gen tapping? It doesnt. Next!
And how does making the killer stop mid chase to spend to spend 2 seconds smashing a gen with brutal strength which by the way took the survivor like .5 second to gen tap without the need to stop moving counter gen tap? It doesnt. Next!
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If anything i would love solo survivors and killers to get more bp when they are facing/with a SWF group.
SWF is a huge game mechanic that doesnt have any disadvantage. There is no compensation to the killer, there is no give and take or negative like the devs try to do. On that note its been a complaint since its inception about over 3 years ago and nothing has changed. I wouldnt cross my fingers on any drastic changes happening.
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The issue isnt so much the survivors its the mechanics in the game. Survivors need to loop because thats the most effective way to waste time.
The horror aspect is there abit at least for me when im solo survivor but the power role completely changes around when i have played SWF to the point of if you want to be sweaty youre the one bullying the killer.
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@nerfeverything said:
If camping and tunneling are fair game, so is tapping. Can't have cheap play styles for one but not the other. Get over it.
Exactly! Its not like camping and tunneling have any perks to help prevent them...oh wait BT and DS. Nothing prevents a survivor from running by even in a chase if they have distance and gen tapping.
Your way of thinking is absolutely silly. Just because there are multiple things that are wrong (or in your words "cheap") and can be improved on doesnt mean that all issues should be ignored till everything is fixed at once. Two wrongs dont make a right :p
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There is nothing wrong with Nemesis. Just drop the pallet early. It is not like this is a new thing to do against certain Killers. This turns Legion into just regular Legion.
Beast of Prey however, let us be honest that is a little cheesy and basically screws the Survivor from escaping. I don't know how efficient it will be considering you have to get Bloodlust 1 and keep it. But its still a wonky mechanic with Deep Wounds.
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@Pokerface303 said:
What I hate about the change is that it isn't the perk that's broken but the maps. Instead of fixes these broken loops and infinities with balanced they band-aid fixed it by nerfing balanced which is what they always do.
So, the changed Balance Landing will prevent the survivor from creating broken loops and infinites but allow the survivor to drop down, gain speed and get to another loop.
You propose they leave Balance Landing as it is, change all the maps so that it will prevent the survivor from creating broken loops and infinites but allow the survivor to drop down, gain speed and get to another loop.
Makes total sense to me....
Edit - for some reason my comment disappeared while editing
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@Pokerface303 said:
What I hate about the change is that it isn't the perk that's broken but the maps. Instead of fixes these broken loops and infinities with balanced they band-aid fixed it by nerfing balanced which is what they always do.
So, the changed Balance Landing will prevent the survivor from creating broken loops and infinites and allow the survivor to drop down, gain speed and get to another loop.
You propose they leave Balance Landing as it is, change all the maps so that it will prevent the survivor from creating broken loops and infinites and allow the survivor to drop down, gain speed and get to another loop.
Okay then?
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Cant you just throw down the pallet early like you do against billy? For nemesis i mean. You drop it early then its just regular legion. Just seems that people forgot they can just drop a pallet early.
As for beast of prey. That will be the bigger problem for survivors. Probably should just revert that change for now.
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The biggest issue is trying to balance or change anything with SWF. Survivors will come out of the wood works on here screaming they will stop playing or lobby dodging will get crazy even with lobby dodging punishments. They have had this advantage which has absolutely no disadvantage for so long they think its not a balance change but a punishment. You always hear, i dont want to be punished for playing with friends.
When survivors spoke about nurse or old legion or spirit it was always there is not enough disadvantage to their powers or it was unfun to play against. They wanted balance to the advantages these killers had.
What is the disadvantage to playing with voice comms in a SWF group? There is none.
It doesnt matter if its the sweatiest or non sweatiest group of SWF. Saying "the killer is chasing me" or "im going for the unhook", the simplest of things can be said and it gives the advantage of what effects the game the most, efficiency in time spent.
So, we know SWF has no disadvantage and often no fun to play against depending on how sweaty the SWF group is. Just like how nurse, spirit, old legion was no fun depending on their sweaty builds. It checks off both the boxes the survivors here deem qualifying enough to get something changed. So why is SWF immune to this.
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@JiggleWiggle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/848759#Comment_848759
Yeah exactly. They have to have a look at the maps and not the perk. Im just gonna be a head on gamer now and see when that get perk gets nerfed to non existent.
Okay, so adjusted Balance Landing currently gives you the ability to drop down and give you enough speed to go to another loop.
Now instead of adjusting Balance Landing they go through every map and adjust it to where Balance Landing can't create loops/infinites. So, then whats left? to use Balance Landing to give you the ability to drop down and give you enough speed to go to another loop.
The outcome is the exact same. The only difference is they put the Exhaustion in an Exhaustion perk (crazy notion isn't that) instead of going through every map to make the same result.
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Balance landing got adjusted because it had a potential to create a infinite loop...plus it was an Exhaustion perk that didnt give you Exhaustion...
So, some survivors would rather have an Exhaustion perk that doesn't give Exhaustion and can make infinite loops instead of any sort of consistency or balance in the game. Okay then.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/845092#Comment_845092
Oh yeah, I totally agree with you there. There is absolutely an imbalance between SWF and solo survivors, and it does need to be addressed in some way. I just don't believe that giving that information to the killer in the pregame lobby is the way to go about it.
This thread had nothing to do with balancing Solo players to SWF players by having the killer know who is in a SWF group. That doesn't even make sense. Maybe i misunderstood.
This is another doomsday response of oh all the killers will dodge lobbies. Again lobby dodgers would get punished and there are a lot of killers out there that won't want to wait the extra time or wont even dodge lobbies.
As for queue up and get better. Think about it this way. Spirit is being nerfed because there was no counter play/wasnt enough downside to her powers and add ons, Legion and Nurse same thing. SWF is a massive feature in the game that only provides an advantage, there is no disadvantage or compromise for the killer. This isn't about "getting gud". This is about balance and maintaining the balance that has been previously set about when there is a advantage in a certain area there should be some sorta disadvantage/compensation in another area.
SWF play with voice comms which i already stated in my previous post, survivors dont have to even be sweaty to benefit from it. There should be a disadvantage/compensation like the killer knowing they are grouped up with friends so the killer can prepare better. I dont understand how that compromise is mind boggling to some people.
Or maybe someone can open my mind to a disadvantage of playing in a SWF group with voice comms?
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@savevatznick said:
Really, the best thing to do is to wait for map reworks that shrink the size of the largest maps. The current state of maps, either having blatant safe zones or being too large for killers without mobility to traverse them feeds into a lot of the problems the game has.
Unfortunately, at the rate the devs are tackling map rebalancing, combined with their inability (refusal?) to make minor map fixes to alleviate numerous, long-known god loops in the game, I doubt you'll see the maps be in a palatable spot for the next three or so years.
This is essentially the perfect answer. Maps and the god loops and windows.
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This absolutely should be put into the game as long as there is punishment for lobby dodging.
Anyone who says there is no legitimate info given from this has no idea what they are talking about. Knowing you are facing a 2, 3, 4 stack would benefit the killer by telling them the team they are facing that some if not all will have comms. This can effect what perks, addons, killers they choose to use. Knowing this info tells the killer to be more cautious around downed surviors near pallets, knowing you have a larger chance at getting flashlighted or body blocked, knowing that most SWF teams coordinate some of their perks. It helps prepare the mental state of the player for the possibility of a harder game. I could probably think of more but all of this gives info to the killer and in turn should relieve some stress at playing killer especially at higher ranks.
There is absolutely no reason to hide this information from the killer because no matter if its the sweatiest or an uncoordinated SWF 2, 3, 4 stack, saying the simplist "the killer is chasing me" or "ill go for the save" or "this gen is almost done" provides such an advantage with the biggest factor of the game, time. Now solo survivors can be aware of this stuff too but at a degree thats harder.
For example when a solo player is on a gen they dont really know how safe they are or where the killer is. If a SWF member is on a gen all that has to be said from another member is "the killer is chasing me" or "the killer is chasing the other dude". Then instantly you know you are fairly safe. It doesnt have to be some sweaty team to give this info. Its very basic and has a huge advantage and the advantage is multiplied by how many members are in a SWF team.
It is absolutely mind boggling how rabid people are in not wanting their SWF touched. This isnt even about nerfing SWF, this is about giving the killer some information.
Also insane dc'ing has been going around for awhile now and it hasnt affected the player base numbers. So if some rotten apples lobby dodge and get punished for it. Its not this doomsday scenerio people keep talking about.
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It worked on me. Ive seen posts way more frequently already talking about tweaking ghostfaces stealth and detection. We havent even tested spirit yet and people are calling for more nerfs on her before even trying it out on the ptb.
Why nerf one killer at a time i guess when you can try for two. The skies the limit :p
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You can slightly buff Ruin and all Totems by making all Totems either bright or dull. So, you dont know which totem is the Ruined one. That could add some time in the game in general.
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If you would make Ruin "Base" for each killer or the game in general, however you want to look at it. I suggest it still be tied to a totem. But instead have all the totems in game be dull or all be bright. So they are all the same and you don't know if you are cleansing the Ruin one. This is sort of like finding an oil can but not as hard.
The reason i suggest it this way is because people love to talk about second objectives. But to be realistic the devs seem not to be the strongest coders and adding a whole new thing like oil cans or whatever is something they probably wont ever do. The idea would need to be something already technically in the game but slightly edited.
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Its already started with the "some of his add ons are not fun to play against". Thing is its been shown even if that is true its never just the addons that get changed.
Sloooow down freddy vs speed billy. Place your bets which one will be the next target.
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Simmer down everyone. Everyone knows Freddy is next, then Billy. Ghostface can be third in line.
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People are DC'ing on Freddy and Billy more for me now. I assume it will get worse after the Spirit "adjustment" goes through. Then i am going to assume Freddy and Billy will get "slight adjustments" and major add-on adjustments.
The weird thing too is Billy is in general very hard to master and speed Billy is tougher to get used to.
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The dbd devs put themselves into a hole where they introduced SWF due to popular demand but didnt think in the long run how communication would give such a distinct advantage over killers and solo players.
Now because of how the system has been for so long. Swf players see any nerf as punishment for something theyve had the benefit of for so long. Rather then seeing it as balance for the game.
I dont think limiting swf to groups of 2 would work. They just need to put in a voice communication system into the game. Then give the killer some tweaks to detection and chase. Like lower terror radius or red glow or lower chase music.
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They dont condone dc'ing, fine....
So, they chose to use an automated system in punishing players, fine...
But the automated system they have in place is far too passive on punishing players for the amount that it is happening. I feel at purple ranks it was getting bad, now at red its getting even worse.
I think its because a lot players who put more hours into the game know as long as they dont DC too much they will be fine.
Basically, if i play any kind of spirit, someone will dc. Now if i play freddy, more and more are dc'ing. I dont have a bunch of fun playing against SWF groups with Adren and DS but i dont just quit out.
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They could always just add a secondary objective like a Seal that has to be cleansed with a different mini game. They could be on walls and the survivor has to cleanse one before they leave the dead by daylight realm.
So, there are generators to power the exit gates and a Seal that has to be destroyed that unbinds them from the realm or whatever lore you want to input there. I just think it would be important to have a different mini game.
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Survivors seem to want Nurse and now Spirit nerfed because there is a CHANCE those Killers will be chosen and it's "UNFUN" to play against them. Survivors seem to think that it being "unfun" and having "no real counter play" are good enough reasons to nerf something.
A lot of Killers choose Spirit and Nurse to combat the CHANCE of getting a sweaty/toxic SWF group because those are "UNFUN" to play against and there is "no real counter play" because they don't know if they are facing a SWF group. But Survivors seem to think the Killer having a "unfun" time and "no real counter player" isn't enough of a reason to touch SWF or letting the Killer know who is in a SWF group.
Which takes me to the beating of the dead horse of "people shouldn't be punished for playing with their friends". Which should be reworded to "my group of friends and i shouldn't be punished for playing together but if the killer is punished with extra frustration and a unfun time that is okay because it doesn't effect us".
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@Knayter said:
imagine have to bring a perk just to counter spirit
spirit have such a big lack of feedback compare to any killer in the game, and there is no actual mindgame in her, I main spirit and I hate myself for maining her aswell
Imagine having to bring a perk, cough like hex, to combat gen rush each map. Now before you say well you dont need a perk to do that you just need to get good. Well that works for going against spirit too.
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Make the Entity a playable character but balanced around where the Killer and Entity players dont have VOIP.
Then include "Hunt with Friends" where a Killer Player and Entity Player can play together. Then see how fast people come into the forums and mention that VOIP is letting the Entity player tell the Killer where the survivors are, what they are doing and which generator to go to that's almost done. Each game the survivors will have no idea if they will possibly get stomped by a great VOIP Entity and Killer. Lets see how well that goes over.
The main issue with SWF isnt the fact that killers are crying on the forums saying that each group is a 4 man stomp team. It doesn't matter if its the worst SWF team or the best SWF team in the world. It's the fact that the killer has no way of knowing they are going up against a team with Voice Communication. Then on top of that, no way of knowing how well they will use Voice Communication.
For example a killer thinking "i'm going to have some fun and play trapper" then randomly gets a average/good 3-4 man SWF team and then gets stomped, it isn't fun. If the killer was given any sort of information so then they could think "oh, i better use a stronger killer and maybe play Trapper after", it would let them be more prepared and i believe enjoy the challenge much more. Or maybe they will just decide to bring stronger addons or change their perks. This way they are more prepared for a possible harder challenge, which means more fun on average and less frustration.
Most SWF aren't super try hards but even if the SWF group does the smallest amount and say the killers position or if the killer is chasing them that provides huge information to the team.
If i hear from my teammate over voip "the killer is chasing me". I don't have to communicate back saying "okay i will keep doing gens", i can just think to myself "okay then ill just keep doing this gen" and just keep talking randomly about stuff, having a good time. It doesn't take a try hard to use common sense.
All in all, i think it should be tested with SWF players being marked but with some sorta lobby leaving punishment.
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When i play in the red ranks (on PC) and not use spirit, nurse or billy (to a lesser extent), the majority of SWF groups are way more challenging with coordinated body blocks, coordinated perks such as adren, where i am and what gens are close, or who goes after ruin.
The killer doesnt have a way to counter any of this extra information or coordination rather than relying on the SWF survivors to make mistakes. So i never understood this point of "this is punishing people for playing together" because people forget the killer is also a person and at times is the one being punished for people playing together.
It doesnt really matter at the end of the day because the whole SWF "issue" has been around since the start of the game and nothing has changed.
I think what we need to focus on is making the new player experience better.
Such as (numbers arent set in stone):
Rank 20-15 = 1 perk, 1 addon...Rank 15-10 = 2 perks, 1 addon....Rank 10-5 = 3 perks, 2 addons and Rank 5-1 = 4 perks, 2 addons.
This just cleans up newer players having to face people who have de pipped, or havent played in awhile but have 4 perks available. Places everyone at a even playing field and is more for a progression. I would even go as far as to allow more perks to pop up on the blood web eventually since we now have wayyy more perks or have each survivor/killer character have independent rank. So, if you can have a Rank 1 Hillbilly but if you want to start ranking as Clown he would be Rank 20 and at not such a disadvantage with the whole 1 perk, 1 add-on thing.
Anywhos thats my rant.
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In the developer streams before the game launched. Playing with your friends was highly requested and they said they were going to have it. Just wasnt ready at launch.Detective_Jonathan saidPlease tell me where SWF with Voice comms was always intended for the game.
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Swf was always intended for the game. It just wasnt included at launch.
Edit - i misread. The swf suggestion seems great but there are too many tiny problems. Dc'ers and match length like one group finishing in 5 and the other match taking 20. -
I think the longer dead by daylight is around at its current form, more and more survivors are wising up to just gen rushing. Which makes it seem generators are going faster when in actuality the times are the same, its just happening more often.
Edit - As game time lowers as more survivors catch on about just gen rushing youll probably see killers have a tougher and tougher time because the time it takes for them to win is generally longer than it takes to gen rush. Unless you play one of the couple killers that has a possibilty to end the game in 3 to 4 minutes. Ex: the huntress with ih and the belt. But even then you cant really make many errors. Or the nurse who can apply a tremondous amount of map pressure which slows the game abit.
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Can't Nerf a killer when the devs state if you want to have a competitive chance at winning consistently as killer you got to play Nurse or Billy.
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@Vietfox said:
You said not all killers are a one shot killers, never talked about how much time takes to get 4K. Please reread.I was phrasing my comment in relation to the point we were discussing. I thought that was clear and didnt have to say every single time something to the effect of "all killers that can one shot all game within 3 minutes" because that was the point.
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@Vietfox said:
Any killer can be a 1 shot killer with the right perks.What perks allow a killer to 1 shot down all game and finish the game within 3 minutes?
@Vietfox said:
You haven't said anything yet about nerfing Iridescent heads.Because this isnt about nerfing iredescent heads or certain addons. That can be done in another thread. You might have to reread or have someone explain the point of this conversation to you cause i cannot keep repeating. I am not derailing from the original point.
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@twistedmonkey said:
What can happen and what does happen are always two different scenarios.I fully understand that. But you are now talking about % chance. What is more likely, getting gen rushed or having a huntress with not only Iridescent Head but with the combination that gives them 3 1 shot down hatchets. So i feel its flawed to say, ya you might get gen rushed 20% of the time (random number) but thats okay cause you might get a huntress with that loadout 5% of the time. Both can happen sure but that doesnt mean they should be compared just because they "can" happen.
@Vietfox said:
You said before that ending matches in so little time is unbalanced, does that mean then that devs should nerf iridescent heads? I don't think killer mains would like that. I'm not a killer main and i think IH are fine.
Some survivors don't like being slugged, but we can't please everyone, right? People need to tell the difference between something being unfair and annoying. If devs nerfed everything that is annoying Doctor would be gone by now.Just look for more videos, i'm sure you can find them yourself.
I never said that matches ending in so little time is unbalanced. Please do not put words in my mouth. I said if one side can end a game within 3 minutes and the other side also can but it takes 5-6 minutes then isnt that unbalanced? I never stated i feel its unbalanced. I was pointing out from a numbers stand point that something might be off.
Then you showed me a video of a killer who has specific set of addons who can 1 shot down from range as a counter argument.
The problem here is any set of 4 survivors can gen rush and we have how many killers that can 1 shot down for the whole game? Maybe if each killer had the ability to 1 shot down then then your example would hold more merit.
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@Vietfox said:
In less than 3 minutes:Thanks for the video. So survivors have no issue with just being slugged? Is this the direction we want to go with the game? Not to mention he is downing with 1 hatchet throw using Iridescent Head.
I think this video just shows under the right circumstances a slugging huntress with one of the best addon combinations in the game can win a game within 3 minutes.
If you can find another video that would be great.
Edit - I am sure you can find Mori games also. But do survivors actually want to face insta down builds and mori builds 99% of the time because thats the only way to compete with objective time?
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I watched the video and i understand its no addons or perks and he did make a few mistakes. But just being devils advocate here, i think the point was should the objectives be able to get done in 3 minutes (roughly) even when the killer makes a few mistakes? Does anyone have a recent killer video of highish ranks where the killer kills everyone in 3 minutes?
Like for example. If one side has the possibility of completing the objective within 3 minutes and the other side has the possibility of completing the objective but its 5-6 minutes, isnt that unbalanced? I am not taking sides. Im just trying to look at it from a whole.
Edit - I guess we also have to consider what is a win for the killer. Is it a 4k, 3k, 2k? cause if the objective is to kill only 2 survivors (the rest is a bonus) then the time would be much different if the objective for a win would be to kill all 4.
Maybe if a win for the killer is 2k then the game needs to revolve around that. With the end game screen changing or bloodpoints being adjusted. Maybe that would make the game a overall better experience for some people.
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Ya, he hasnt run ruin for a while up until recently just to provide a little less stress while playing killer. If you put yourself in any good viewership streamer shoes, im sure they get stream sniped and you got to communicate with your community while playing the game.
I understand it was no addons or perks and he made a few mistakes. But being devils advocate here, i think the point again was should the objective be able to get done within 3 minutes even if the killer makes a few errors? Maybe someone has a link to a recent killer game at fairly high rank where the killers kills everyone within 3 minutes?
Cause if one side has the possibility to do all the objectives within 3 minutes (roughly) lets say and the other side has the possibility to do the objective but it takes 5-6 minutes. Then isnt that an issue? im just throwing this out there. Im not taking sides. Just saying what i see.
Edit - I guess what we have to think about is what is a win for a killer. Are we talking about a 4k, 3k, 2k. Cause if the objective for the killer is to kill about 2 people per round, then the time varies.
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@micsan said:
You are missing the point here...For you it's totally unacceptable to play against a toxic SWF, and that's the problem. A Toxic SWF is in fact nothing other then a group of survivors who communicate and are in fact, GOOD AT THE [BAD WORD] GAME......
Finally, something we actually agree with!
I might be a little harsher by setting it to 5 min, 15 min etc. I never dodge, If I get into a swf game where everyone has flashlights\medkits\toolboxes etc. I will make it a challenge to actually beat this completely out of my odds game. I also often use these stacked games to do Daily rituals on killers I don't like.
I didnt want to quote your whole thing because you are either reading my statements wrong or putting words in my mouth which i wont even bother to comment on. I said these things and ill state it again for a third time.
1) That saying "Why should i be punished for playing with my friends". It is unfun for you to wait for a excessive amount of time and i am sure it is unfun to wait 15-45 minutes. But from the killers standpoint why should they sacrifice their fun for you to have your fun. You said again you get dodged 70% of the time. That means again 70% of killers arent having fun playing against SWF because of the dice roll of either having a fun game or a game that feels like a waste of their time. THE POINT AGAIN is both sides feel like they are wasting their time and one side shouldnt have to sacrifice their fun for the other side.
Saying "Then 70% of the killers should learn how to have fun against SWF."....."If you don't have fun against 70% of your games, why are you even playing this game?"
This is again another silly thing to say and i dont see why you cant see that. Saying the majority
of the player base are having a terrible time with a certain aspect of the game and should just suck it up and learn to have fun or quit is silly. We should be striving to balance this, because doing nothing wont help your queue times and having 70% of players quit isnt going to help your queue times either.THE POINT AGAIN is both sides feel like they are wasting their time and one side shouldnt have to sacrifice their fun for the other side.
2) It doesnt matter if it only happens in 10-15-20% of SWF games. Because those games are unfun enough for killers to lobby dodge most SWF games. There is a problem here and just punishing lobby dodgers isnt going to help.
You have to get it out of your head that this is a oh i should be playing better or oh i hate 3-4 man SWF teams. That is totally wrong. I even said in my last statement that they should balance showing SWF teams with longer lobby dodging queues. I never said take away SWF in any of the statements.
4) The most important point which for some reason you dont understand. "We communicate, we tell each other where we are and where to go and what killer it is, all that jazz". There is NO REASON the killer shouldn't know they are going up against this before hand.
Just because other games are balanced towards voice communication and killers should suck it up is another silly thing to say and not even close to the point either. I am not saying remove SWF or remove voice communication i am saying.....
THE POINT IS voice communication can provide an advantage and that the killer should know they are going up against that before hand
You have to stop accusing people of being salty or bad or mad about losing or playing better opponents and you have to stop putting words in my mouth or making assumptions.
And its fantastic you agree with having SWF marked with lobby quitting being punished more harshly. But please stop saying the majority of killers (70% like you said) should sacrifice their fun for you or just get better or quit the game. You should be striving for balance between both sides not making excuses why they should punish one side so you can continue to have your fun.
My stance will always be sure punish lobby dodgers but show survivors who are in a SWF group. Dont punish one side for the sake of the other.
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@micsan said:
You say that I should get punished for playing swf, but if I'm not going to get to play swf, I'm not going to play DbD, simple as that. I've already reduced my playtime on this game from all the time I had after work, to simply doing one or two games a day.I never said you should get punished for playing SWF. I am saying you cant use the argument "Why should i be punished for playing with friends" because killers are equally getting punished for playing against SWF groups. You wait 15-45 minutes for a match and the killer has a chance at having absolutely no fun wasting his time also. What if the killer only plays a few times per day, why should they have a 10-15-20% chance at having no fun at all in a match because of something the game (voice communication) isnt balanced towards.
@micsan said:
DbD is in no way shape or form something that's considered balanced, or even competitive. The game simply does not allow it.So just because certain things arent balanced and often no fun for one side doesnt mean you just leave things as they are. If you are getting dodged at your stated 70% of games then obviously 70% of killers are having no fun playing against SWF. So ya...that should get balanced in some form. Doing nothing improves nothing for your wait time.
@micsan said:
When playing a non-competitive game you are not going to win all the time if you are incredibly good or even just better then your opponent. But that doesn't [BAD WORD] matter at all. You simply play for fun, if you are up against something completely out of your league, it's still fun to try and see if you can beat the odds. Beating the odds every now and then is incredibly satisfying, like going up against a very good nurse with mori and still escaping at red ranks.This isnt about being upset about or playing against better opponents. This is about voice communication and again...."We communicate, we tell each other where we are and where to go and what killer it is, all that jazz"....how is that fair for the killer not knowing they are up against that before hand?
@micsan said:
Like I said, and you completely missed the it... I said SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT DODGING IS SUCH A HUGE ISSUE.Then the simple solution is show SWF groups and have dodging on a gradual timer that increases with each dodge. (Ex: 30 seconds, 1 minute, 2 minutes, 3 minutes, etc). Ive pointed that out on other comments ive made in different threads.
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@micsan said:
I completely agree with you that the SWF groups should show up as SWF, but only at the end game screen. Simply because of how incredibly annoying it is to be in queue for 15 minutes then FINALLY finding a game and the killer wusses out. I'm even for giving a decent bonus for those who play against swf, 20-50% more BPs. But, the matchmaking is broken right now and I'm 100% sure of it.I have no problem with SWF showing at the end of the game, if the game gets balanced around SWF and voice communication. Which it wont because it screws solo survivors.
You are getting dodged because a lot of the time for killers a 3-4 SWF game is a complete dice roll. It will either be fun like the other games or a complete nightmare with people who try extremely hard with all the benefits of voice communication. Giving killers extra BP or showing SWF at the end of the game wont change anything in regards to leavers.
Your original statement was "Why should we be punished for wanting to play together?". Why should killers roll the dice on every 3-4 SWF game to possibly be punished with no fun at all? Why should they take a chance on getting a toxic team or an impossible team to win against cause they have voice communication? Because oh, its only a small chance of that happening? Thats a terrible argument to make. Oh, youll only have a terrible time 20% of the time, so suck it up and take the chance so i can have my fun.
You cannot have all these advantages like you said "We communicate, we tell each other where we are and where to go and what killer it is, all that jazz" then state killers shouldnt know they are going up against this before hand. And not only not know they are going up against this before hand...but because it might ruin your fun. If you cant see how unfair that is, that is mind boggling.
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People derank for 2 reasons.
1) They want to bully and always win against people with less experience, addons and or perks.
2) The ranking system is completely broken. The newer player will play a couple of specific killers or survivors and zoom up in rank. Then they get smashed cause they dont have access to key perks or they want to try new characters and proceed to completely smashed because they are still high rank with a low leveled killer or survivor.
So they can either derank to try to get on more even terms or spend hours grinding on their previously played killer or survivor which they are tired of playing to level up the new killer or survivor till they are playable. We dont have to guess what the majority are choosing to do. -
@micsan said:
You seriously want them to limit swf to two survivors?That's [BAD WORD] up. Most people aren't hardcore depip squads running sabo builds or anything else equally cancerous.
I simply want to be able to play this game with my friends, most of whom do not play even remotely as much as I do. Two of them have not gotten past rank 14 yet.
Why should we be punished for wanting to play together? Because some killers want an easier time, in a game where rank means nothing?
This game is catered towards casuals and removing the option to play together would be the death of this game.
That being said, I'm 100% sure that this will never be the case. So discussing it is rather pointless, but either way...my two cents.
You have to ask yourself this. Have you or your friends in a SWF group ever communicated to each other saying where the killer is, what to do next, who is going to unhook who or if the killer is chasing someone. How is that fair? How does that not provide an advantage in the game?
It doesnt matter if the killer ended up 4 killing all of you, it doesnt matter if all of you escaped. The point is every single game you play, you have an extra advantage.
Now i am not saying limit SWF to 2 people. But at the very least, show SWF groups that are 3 and 4 members. I always find it funny on here with conversations of SWF where the killers are told to suck it up, but when they ask for the smallest thing like 3-4 man SWF groups being shown its suddenly DOOM for the game and SWF groups wont ever find a lobby anymore without any stats backing it up.