PandaChris
PandaChris
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It was posted a few times but people are still missing it. You cant reward BP for end of season rank because the people deranking to bully newer survivors/killers will just wait till near the end of the season and rank up quick to get the rewards. This wont fix the issue of the bullying or making people want to stay at higher ranks.
With the current system make ranking much slower. Change how Rank Reset works. Rank 1-5 gets a Reset Rank of 5. Rank 6-10 Resets to Rank 10. Rank 11-15 Resets to Rank 15. Rank 16-20 Reset to Rank 20. Then make Rank 5, 10, 15 hard Ranks where you cant derank past those points after youve hit them.
Also, i still believe in my previous post with the number of Perks capped to what Rank you are and possibly Addons capped, where you get 1 addon from 20-10 and 2 addons from 9-1 for example. So even if you try to derank constantly to stay at the Rank 15-20 range lets say, its much more of a even playing field cause everyone would have only access to 1-2 perks (depending how the perk caps are) and 1 addon.
Edit - So the benefit of ranking up/staying at a higher rank is also a progression where people will hopefully want to stay at higher ranks to enjoy a full kit of options.
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I think we got to look at this at a different way. Deranking possibly gives "easier" games. Why can they be easier? well player experience, access to more of a variety of perks or addons than the people you are facing.
I think the easiest and best solution is slow down ranking up, and have restrictions on how many perks and what kind of add ons you can use based on rank.
For example Rank 15-20 - 1 Perk
Rank 10-14 - 2 Perks
Rank 5-9 - 3 Perks
Rank 1-4 - 4 PerksAs for addons i am unsure how you could divide it up or if they should be divided up. Player experience will always play a part but people deranking with 4 of the best killer/survivor perks that are tier 3 with amazing addons facing way newer players wouldnt exist due to the restrictions.
I think it would provide more of a balance. Maybe im wrong or maybe there would be a better way to divide perks for rank.
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Maybe if the repairing had more of a difficult mini game where you couldnt just look around while waiting for a skill check. The mini game could focus survivors more on doing the generator than surroundings. Just keep the repair time as is then and see what happens.
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With the new SC even without botany knowledge is amazing, then on top of that the gen speed buff on prove thyself, toss in distortion and you got 1 other perk and wowza.
You got a heal station at 20ish seconds, gens get done quicker, you get more bp and an aura blocking ability plus an extra perk of your choice. You pretty much have all the aspects of the game covered. -
So with botany knowledge it is about 15 seconds without sloppy and 20 with. Wow thats insane. Im not understanding the thinking there of a 15 second heal that doesnt require a teammate and doesnt have a limit.
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I just briefed over the patch notes and math. So round abouts self care with botany knowledge is 15 to 16 seconds-ish.....but hit with sloppy it goes to 20ish?
So essentially its a 15 secondish infinite use heal? Basically losing the killer is now rewarding survivors with a full heal and doesnt require another teammate? -
@powerbats said:
I only through them out there as an example and never said they 4k every game but I believe it was Monto that did a challenge and he 4k'd over 100 games straight.But as for gen rush it's in every single game and if after 2 years the killers complaining about it can't handle it that mean they're the problem. You also don't have to have everything unlocked on every killer to do well and in fact have a core group you like to play and go from there.
Just because something has been in the game for years doesnt mean it cant be improved on. Thats like saying tunneling has been in the game from the start, that means survivors complaining about it are the problem cause they cant handle it.
As for a core group. Lets say you want Ruin, BBQ, Enduring and Spirit Fury. So thats 4 different killers to get a good set of perks. Well ruin is pretty much useless unless you have Tier 3 to effect all survivors not just 2. Spirit Fury is pretty much useless unless you have the perk at Tier 3 where its 2 pallets not 4. BBQ can be debated whether its still useful as a grinding perk at any level, but if you want to effectively use it with soft counters now, you want it at Tier 3. Thats still a massive grind. This is a pretty standard set up a lot of the time.
Now what i am saying is these people you mentioned have access to the very best Tier 3 perks on every killer. Not to mention they again have access to consistently the best addons every game due to the amount they play. Again i am not saying a person cannot do well at Rank 1, but using people with thousands of hours of game time for an example of balance considering the games mechanics with perks and addons is a terrible example.
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Lets clarify the statement of plenty of rank 1 killers do fine. Not saying they dont but examples like these are really bad.powerbats said:@Fenrir said:
Really name a few
Monto, Tru there's countless people out there that play killer well at rank 1 and gen rush is in every game and if killers couldn't handle it none of them would ever get to rank 1 let alone 4k ever.
Why? The simple reason is yes they are rank 1 and do great but they also have thousands of hours in the game. This provides not only experience but things such as unlocking every teachable perk in the game, access to them on every killer and more consistant access to the very best addons every game.
So if you use these people as examples you are essentially saying hey you just need thousands of hours in the game, access to the best addons each game, unlock every teachable and have access to them on each killer and thennnn youll do great as killer at rank one. -
Just for reference those stats that were posted about the 45 percent escape rate from ranks 1 to 5. If you are using that information as a way to say currently its fairly balanced. In those statistics the nurses sacrifice rate was lower than pig, cannibal and trapper. In fact the trapper and pig were tied for the 2nd highest sacrifice rate behind hillbilly. The nurse placed 5th.
So it seems the nurse is perfectly balanced as is if we are using those stats.
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This game is more of a race than a hunt. Precious seconds add up when you cant derail the survivor team to get someone off the objective and kill them as fast as possible. That is just how the game is.
If a killer chases a survivor, hooks them, they get rescued by a full health survivor, the killer has 2 options.
1 - Go after the injured survivor.
Pros: The injured survivor takes 1 hit not 2, a survivor gets closer to death, the chase is shorter, the rescuing survivor will most likely not go back to a generator immediately and stay around the area.
Cons: It sucks being the person downed then hooked, then downed then hooked.
2 - Go after the full health survivor.
Pros: You have 2 survivors 1 hooked? If they dont get away i guess...
Cons: The unhooked survivor heals up, the saving survivor has a better chance at getting away being full speed and requiring 2 hits, the chase will be longer, and the unhooked survivor can heal up and go to a gen probably before the other survivor gets hooked.
Just because certain killers with certain perks dont have to tunnel, doesnt mean mechanically its not the best choice to make more often than not.
Edit - Im not saying tunneling doesnt suck. I am sure it does for a lot of people. They join a game, get found then tunneled and on top of that receive no blood points. But thats a game mechanic issue, not the killers fault.
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The game was designed to play with friends. If i remember correctly they just didnt have it added for launch but always said there would be a system. The problem doesnt lie with playing with friends, the problem lies with the voice communication software that is used with playing with your friends and that cannot be removed.
I feel when we talk about SWF we need to be more specific though. I feel the issue lies with 3 man and 4 man SWF. But the unfortunate circumstance right now is you either play 1 of 3 killers to do well against SWF or you spend 500, 1000+ hours in the game to get all the trainable perks, have access to them on all killers and the time played provides more access to the better addons more consistently. At this point of course SWF will be slightly easier.
I feel a loose example would be what if there was a killer and entity player in game. This entity player would have his own tasks with slowing the survivors down, maybe he floats around the ground invisible, the details arent really needed here. Now if 2 friends were playing and not using voice communication im sure it wouldnt be that bad. But now if these 2 friends had voice communication and could tell each other where a survivor is, or what gen they are on, the survivors would scream blue murder.
Like or not voice communication does provide an advantage. Whether it is slight or large does have a ton of variables but still it does provide an advantage. I feel the only real starting point is to add a 5th greyed out perk that only activates with 4 SWF. Then go from there and see where the stats take you.
Edit - A quick edit cause i know a counter point will be why should i punished for playing with friends. On the flip side why should the killer be punished by an outside advantage by playing against people who want to play with friends.
And this has nothing do with killers getting 4 kills per game. I think 2 kills per game is what the game should be balanced towards and expected on average.
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@Kaelum said:
@PandaChris said:
But the developers didnt want voice communication in the game, which in 70% of games it is being used.This is not an accurate statement. They specifically stated that they didn’t want to force voice communication on those who do not want it, which is completely different from what you are saying. They have no issues at all with voice coms, as there is absolutely nothing that they can do about it. They also stated that it is an unfair advantage, and that they are trying figure out ways to change that. Will they succeed? No, it is impossible to equalize the game against this advantage. This is why killers are more powerful, but not stupidly so.
Where did they state this? i am going from a early developer stream on why they said they didnt add it. It was because it reduced the fear factor of the game and they didnt feel people screaming all over would add anything to the game. So, thats why they didnt want to add it.
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Lets hammer out a few things:
1 - We got to remember that according to the dev stream from last year 70% of games are some form of SWF. So, SWF is not going anywhere.
2 - When trying to balance SWF we got to remember the majority are 2 mans. So if you buff killers speed/perks/yadda yadda, the ones truly losing out are the other solo survivors in that same game. They dont have the benefits of what the SWF players have and now they are going against a buffed killer.
This is why in general SWF is a pain in the bottom to balance. Something should be done though. The developers want people to play with friends, which is why SWF was created. But the developers didnt want voice communication in the game, which in 70% of games it is being used. Like it or not it doesnt matter if voice communication provides a small or large advantage (of course this is a variable depending on player skill, group size, how casual the SWF are playing) but it still does provide an advantage.
So, what do we change? i have no idea. But i feel player names should be removed from lobbies and killer perks/information shouldnt be shown till end of the game.
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I say just give all survivors voip that the killer cant hear and balance the game around it or limit swf to 2 people. Buffing the killer screws over the solo survivors and buffing the solo survivors is just complicated.
They wont make 2 different systems. The player base isnt big enough. I cant imagine how long the que times would be.
Edit - We again have to realize 70 percent of games are some form of swf. So most games already have voip in them and its not going away -
There was that developer stream last year sometime in October that showed 70% of all games contain some group (2,3,4 man) of SWF. So, i am not sure why this game is not balanced around SWF.
Like it or not the majority of survivor players are playing with their friends. Which is fantastic for the game and fun for them but terrible for balance.
As for ranked / casual, i dont believe that ever will happen. They struggle with making the current lobby system work properly already. I cant imagine them having to deal with 2 different systems.
I have no idea how to fix this issue, maybe tighten up the skill checks, make them go faster, depending on the number of SWF players there are. I know the general argument is "why should i be punished for playing with my friends". Something has to give when you can have such an advantage through communication.
Im also a big advocate of removing the ability to see perks during spectate and to remove names from survivors during the lobby screen.
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I don't afk personally, but i hear its not being punished in anyway. I recently got back into the game. The issue is you rank up so fast and the perk system is messed up. I ranked up really quick using 3 killers (doctor/hag/spirit) and now i want to level up my other killers but its so painful. So, what i basically do is just try to chase the survivors and give them some fun but not kill anyone.
A fix would be slowing down ranking and removing the tiers from perks. Another solution could be tying perk unlocks to Rank also, not just bloodpoint levels. For example, the 2nd perk slot would unlock at lvl 5 and Rank 16, 3rd perk slot would be lvl 10, Rank 12 and last would be lvl 15, Rank 8.
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I think the biggest thing is, from what i heard and read, when a SWF member dies they can see the killers perks and provide a second set of eyes for the friend they are spectating. That seems to be a crazy added bonus to the communication they already have when they are all alive.
I dont see why killers don't get extra bloodpoints that go up in relation to how many SWF members there are on the other team.
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I can understand how it would be annoying to die quickly and feel "bullied/tunneled". Maybe have it so that even if you die you still get bonus bloodpoints for each survivor that ends up escaping during that game. If you think about it, being chased, hooked, unhooked, chased again and hooked and so forth does help the team by giving them time.
Just would have to make the feature in such a way you dont have to wait around and spectate till the end of a game. Maybe this is already in the game somehow, it doesnt look like it to me though.
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As a player that just came back and plays about 70% killer and 30% survivor, why is tunneling a bad thing? I do not hook camp, but if i see a survivor going for a unhook, i will head to the hook. Normally by that time i am a little late getting there so i go after the unhooked injured survivor.
Isn't that the smart thing to do? go after the injured survivor that takes 1 hit and shorter chase rather then the other survivor that needs two hits and a prolonged chase? If i end up going after the survivor that needs two hits, the unhooked survivor can just get healed then its back to a long chase and 2 hits again.
I noticed someone said just grab them off or hit them when they are trying to pull the other survivor off, but correct me if im wrong the only real killers that can do that consistently is the nurse or billy (maybe spirit) with their extreme movement? with the other killers you would sorta have to patrol the hook, then get called a camper.