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DC penalty is fine as is, or, at least, it'll be just as soon as giving up on hook is dealt with. Honestly, at this point might as well get rid of survivors ability to unhook themselves altogether. It can lead to interesting situations on occasions, but self-unhooking is generally just unnecessary.
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@PreorderBonus said:
Why isn't there any consistency with the process?
There's nothing "consistent" about DBD's development
/thread
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It's a waste of time for everyone involved.
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@FilthyLegionRevival said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701066#Comment_3701066
Using a nonsensical analogy isn't going to help your argument. To answer your question from before, yes.
What's nonsensical about the hypothetical?
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@vol4r said:
Counterplay is lightborn - there you have it. Either choose to play with it or without it, it's up to you.
It all seems like skill issue to me.
"Just equip this niche perk in order to counter this rare, yet, unhealthy interaction" is, and never will be, a good argument in favor of a bad mechanic. Just get rid of it. Compensate with a minor buff if needs be.
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It works as is. The game will never be balanced enough to avoid restrictions altogether.
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@FilthyLegionRevival said:
If I recall, it's the flashbang going off literally milliseconds after the locker animation is done. They probably have insane precision and timing to accomplish that.
That makes it ok?
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@Nerfpopalready said:
I mean I’ve just recently learned how to do locker bangs very consistently and it’s very hard to pull off you need to practice the timings a lot and you won’t seen it done in most games unless the survivor knows the timing which most don’t not to mention you need to craft the bang and get it ready like dude if you hate skill expression just say it
Oh, stop. Skill expression is great. One-sided skill expression is not.
If a perk read "At the start of the trial, this perk activates. Press the Active Ability button to open an instance of OSU and look for the hardest track available. After you beat this track, all survivors enter the dying state. This perk is disabled for the remainder of the Trial after use." Would you tell me "you hate skill expression" if I thought it was unhealthy?
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695608#Comment_3695608
Griefing literally is one of the in game reporting options
Because their definition of griefing is limited to:
'Working with the opposite team to gain an advantage or grief teammates
Targeting specific users repeatedly in order to ruin their game experience
Holding the game hostage'
Bleeding survivors out does not satisfy any of these.
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@Blueberry said:
How often does all survivors getting slugged and left to bleed out actually happen realistically? I've seen this like once in a couple hundred games..if even that. This happens so rarely that it doesn't even feel like a topic worth talking about honestly.
I feel like it's more often used as a guise because people just don't like slugging and want it nerfed. Painting it up as unsportsmanlike game play is a tool to get that. What they really want to say is just that they think slugging is too strong and want it nerfed, but that won't convince people because it's not. Not always, but generally what I feel like I see.
I'd gladly PM my profile if you think I'm just a survivor trying to get slugging nerfed.
That's beyond the point anyhow, seeing as I'm not asking for a nerf but a punishment for players bleeding survivors out with explicit malicious intent. Sure, it isn't particularly common. -
@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I have had a few of these in the last week, just had a knockout killer attempting to bleed us out but failing as I think my team mates were a SWF so Knockout didn't do much.
I will say it again as I have said many times, there needs to be a 'concede' option when everyone is slugged and there is no perk to get anyone up. This would remove a lot of the incentive for trolling for the immature kids who continue to do this, as wasting 4 minutes of their own time bleeding out bots isn't probably going to do it for them.
Edit: I know slugging isn't reportable but some of these are doing so to intentionally grief others which I am sure is reportable.
Doing so with the intention to grief is not reportable.
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@Draco_Phoenix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650011#Comment_3650011
That's not true king wolfe2 Freddy dominates in high mmr bracket go watch him He does well with majority of killers he plays.
Literally any above average killer player will dominate in high MMR, and most dedicated DBD streamers are well above average.
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@fulltonon said:
Generally speaking, it's much faster and smooth to secure 4k with bleedout than letting survivors camp on hatch for 30 consecutive minutes, I won't bother finding already winning survivor.
They MUST do something to stop last two survivors from hiding, otherwise bleedout must exist.
Couldn't you just… not go for the 4k? Unless you're going for specific challenges or achievements, I see no reason not to hook and move on. You're going to get to hatch first the overwhelming majority of the time anyways. It's not worth your time.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684601#Comment_3684601
Do you even play the game?
Do you need a source for survivors drag time for killers when they win? It's something that every player who actually plays the game sees in most matches every day.
But let me turn that argument around, what is your source of the killers bleeding survivors to death? i could just as well claim that it never happens.
Stop with the strawmans, Jesus Chirst. I never denied the fact that survivors teabagging by the exit gate was common. I was merely calling you out for blatantly fabricating (and doubling down on) a fictitious number in order to support your argument. "80-90% of all survivors stand and drag time for the killer", "No, your arguments are wrong, here are some accurate numbers." This is textbook bad faith.
"But let me turn that argument around [...] I could just as well claim that it never happens." No. No you could not. For one, in an earlier comment, you mentioned that it does, in fact, happen. "Also, its really rare, that im getting bled out, its not even 1/10 games." Furthermore, you and I could just look it up and come up with plenty of examples.
On that note, here are some actually verifiable numbers. These were pulled from Otzdarva's two most recent available vods. A grand total of 28 survivors escaped through the exit gates. 6 were teabagging and/or purposefully wasting his time (4 of which were SWFing, but that's beyond the point). So, just about 20%, a far cry from 80-90%. Now, I hear you; "cherry-picked", "small sample size", etc. This is about as much time as I'm willing to spend skimming through streams to make a point. While the actual number may fluctuate, I guarantee 20% is not far off. Want to triple down? Feel free to come up with a different number and back it up with a source.
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Every event, I go out of my way to clear my inventory because disabled event items bother me. I hate that I won't get to do it this year.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682052#Comment_3682052
its facts, let me translate it even further "No, your arguments are wrong, here are some accurate numbers"
So, im saying that what you say is wrong (because it is)
Im also telling you that you have the perks to counter this playstyle, if you think its such a big issue
Why is that a non-argument?
"here are some accurate numbers I pulled out of nowhere and refuse to back up with a source"
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636808#Comment_3636808
1) Whos fault is that? Every single survivor went down and not a single survivor has one perk that can help them get up from slugging?
Out of the 16 perks survivors can carry not one person brought anything to help themselves. That’s not the killer fault and the killer should not be punished for it. You all got slugged, of course.
2) it’s a applicable to nothing, getting slugged is part of the game. Teabag is also part of the game it’s not punishable and it shouldn’t be punishable. If you can’t handle it then Dead by Daylight probably isn’t the game for you.
3) In terms of this third point I’m not sure what I was referring to so I won’t touch up on it if I’m being honest, it looks like it was a typo.
You're not engaging with this in good faith. This is not a balance discussion. I'm not complaining about slugging as a whole, but a specific scenario where killers will purposefully bleed you out, not because it's the efficient thing to do, but because they're petty.
If you could boil down my argument to "slugging is unfun and unfair", bringing up anti-slugging perks would make sense. But you can't, because it's not.
I don't think you understood point two.
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@appleas said:
Knockout exists. Infectious Fright also encourages slugging because it tells the Killer where to go for the next chase.
As long as these perks is in the game, mass slugging as a strategy is deemed to be acceptable by the devs. If the devs wanted Killers to hook all slugged survivors after downing them, they could give basekit deerstalker to Killers to make it easier. Rather than just blaming everything on the Killer player, look at the system designed by the devs and question why some aspects that encourage Killers to act in certain ways exist?
Slugging is fine. That's not what this is about.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681424#Comment_3681424
Right back at you, i even wrote it with bold words
Right. Let me give that a try.
Again, "It's uncommon, therefore it's not as big a deal as you make it out to be" is a non-argument.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672689#Comment_3672689
Thats are pretty accurate, also try checking my post history. - you will see that im a survivor main.
Also, its really rare, that im getting bled out, its not even 1/10 games.
Its kind of tireing that a lot of survivor mains think its ok, and even (as you do now) are trying to downplay it, everyone playing know the facts, i even think BHVR have the stats. - But as soon as it is survivors that are the victim of toxic play all hell is loose, no matter how rare it is.
Tunneling and Camping (especially by stealth killers) are a much bigger issue, and should have all focus on how to encurage killers how to play in different ways.
- And as i already told you once - If this is such a big problem, then there is perks to counter it, and if you dont want to "waste" a perk slot for that, then the problem isnt really that big that you make it sound.
I don't know how to get through to you. Conversations are meant to be genuine back-and-forths, I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672647#Comment_3672647
Then they should have added more Lockers.
That's much more work then you make it out to be.
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Even accounting for the extra scourge hook, decreasing regression to 20% would significantly weaken the perk. Not that that's a bad thing.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636712#Comment_3636712
Yes, I did read all of it.
The most toxic situation that can come of this is the killer bleeding you out for four minutes while teabagging you, it’s no different from survivors teabagging in the killer every match.
Either way the game moves on. Yeah it’s not fun, but there’s anything that can be done.
Its part of playing an MMO.
"it’s no different from survivors teabagging in the killer every match." Of course it is. One gets to play the game, the other does not. It's a glaring distinction.
"Either way to game moves on." is applicable to practically every current punishable offenses. It's a demonstrably terrible argument.
"but there’s anything that can be done." Unless you can back that up with something tangible or an official statement, I wholeheartedly disagree.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I giggled when I saw the title of this post. While it’s frustrating, it’s part of the game. It’ll never be punishable.
sometimes that’s the only only option the killer has.
No offense, but did you read the post to completion? I'm aware bleeding survivors out can be necessary. This is not what the post is about.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It's DBD. If they banned every killer/survivor that played toxic that would be over half the community. Some play toxic all the time...some have bad matches are rage into the next one. Online games can only do so much to manage toxic players.
"Online games can only do so much to manage toxic players."
I'm suggesting they do the bare minimum.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629138#Comment_3629138
When and how did I push blame for survivors actions onto the killer? ElaborateYour reply to the exit gate camping is "Killers can push survivors out" - Thats the same as saying that its the killers responsibility = pushing blame on the killer.
If you are being slugged, the anti-slug perks do exactly increase your chances to win.
I think nothing is "fool-proof" in this game, even when you bring 4 flashlights and full sabo team, you are not guaranteed that the killer will not hook you ect.
I was replying to your comment explicitly stating bleeding survivors out is "just like exit gate camping". I was not shifting blame, only pointing out there's a simple and consistent solution to one, but not the other. If survivors are sitting by the exit gates, you can push them out and move on with your life. If a killer bleeds you out, your options are limited to dubious preemptive measures.
If this resembles in any way "pushing blame on the killer" to you, you're an hypocrite. There's an obvious disconnect here. You're either missing the point or arguing in bad faith.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628846#Comment_3628846
Stop pushing blame for the survivors actions to the killer - thats toxic.
Also, there are perks that can get you up from bleeding if thats a big issue.
When and how did I push blame for survivors actions onto the killer? Elaborate
The ability to equip specific perks, not to increase your chances to win or for fun, but in order to attempt to prevent outright toxicity does not make the latter justifiable. Not to mention it's not a fool-proof plan.
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628860#Comment_3628860
But MMR doesnt work properly at all cause the stats used are unreasonable for such a game and the matchmaking is all over the place at times, cause of backfill lobbies. And those occur by far to frequently as killers lobby shop the hell out of this game. You dont have to explain how mmr works in other games. mmr in dbd doesnt work like this. this is not your everyday shooter.
Whether or not they set a proper win condition, it's working just fine.
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She's an accessibility nightmare, you're right. I'm sure there are things BHVR could do in order to help, but, unless they're willing to straight up murder her identity, she's always going to cause issues.
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If you experienced matchmaking prior to MMR, you should know for a fact it was immeasurably worse. It's far from perfect as is, but it works as intended. Back then, a good killer could go on massive winning streaks fairly consistently because survivors they'd match up against were (no offense to them) just much worse. Nowadays? Win streaks come and go, and matches are generally fairly balanced, to some extent
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@[Deleted User] said:
Despite what the killer says waiting for 4 survivors to bleed out is boring for him as well.
I'm not sure that's relevant. The killer could stop wasting their own time at any moment.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Nah... its just like exit gate camping... (Team A is dragging time for Team B)
You can push survivors out, you can't bleed out on command.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624122#Comment_3624122
Unless you have footage of them sitting there stating plain as day on camera "I'm doing this to be toxic and was not provoked in anyway" I don't think it's that simple. Lets hope they never go down this road.
Not sure what being provoked has to do with anything. I believe it really is that simple.
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Any Billy buff is a good buff, I can only hope this Overdrive mechanic will work out. If it fills up as fast as Overheat does on current patch, it'll be a b*tch to actively use in chase.
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@[Deleted User] said:
How would you prove that someone did it to antagonize other people vs doing it to gain an advantage?
Video evidence. As simple as that.
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@Donkeybqlls said:
Sure I don't like being bled out, but I don't expect killers to smile in delight when I use lithe to take off ... This isn't a game about being nice to another, it's about getting tortured to death and smacking pallets against teeth to prevent that from happening.
I always try to play as nice as possible both as killer and survivor, but expecting everyone to act like that is just a utopian desire
I think this would be a justifiable argument were I asking for something outrageous, but I'm clearly not. I don't expect killers to play in the nicest way, only not to purposefully waste my and others time for literally no justifiable reason.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622709#Comment_3622709
Sure!
BBQ and WGLF aren't just members of my extremely long list of things that I believe shouldn't have been changed in Dead by Daylight, they are an important aspect of it.
Those two were some of the healthiest perks ever released. First of all, they help with the grind, which is already a massive W for them. Second, I don't think they don't hurt the variety, because they are the variety. BBQ being there is one less gen slowdown perk for the killer (which no survivor likes to face) and WGLF being there is... well, survivor perks have suffered recently, but it was one less perk killers considered unfun to go against.
Third, they promote good playstyles. BBQ is a huge incentive to leave the hook and try to hook everyone at least once and WGLF promotes the good altruism, as an unsafe hook rescue wouldn't count towards the stacks. Sure, they cannot change every player's mind, but the situation is better with those perks present.
Last but not least, everyone wants those perks to get their bloodpoint gains back. It has been quite some time since they got nerfed and I have never seen anyone oppose the idea.
It is a win-win situation for everyone involved.
- They help the grind.
That is explicitly why I'm opposed to them. I do not believe beginners should feel the need to purchase, unlock, and equip any specific perk in order to speed up progression. If baseline progression really is that bad (it is), it should be brought up to a reasonable level, and that's that.
- They do not hurt the variety, they are the variety.
I'm not entirely sure what that's supposed to mean. Variety is variety. BBQ's near 50% pick-rate at the time was, by definition, the opposite of variety. Sure, it's not slowdown, but that's an entirely separate (not to mention, complex) issue.
- They promote good playstyles.
This, to some extent, I agree with. They promote a pleasant gameplay-loop which we should strive for. Although, tying arbitrary bonuses which lack impact on the actual match in order to get players to play in a fun way is the last thing you would want to do.
I wouldn't be opposed to bringing them back temporarily, seeing as we're not getting a long-term solution any time soon. I just think it's an unhealthy band-aid fix to a very real problem.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622709#Comment_3622709
Ok so when I first started, I was unaware of the nerf to bbq. All the videos that I had been told to watch to learn the game mechanics had old bbq in them. The first thing I do Is get cannibal to unlock the perk just to find out that guess what the extra BP was non existent. I mean I ran it for a good 200 hours before one day my brother was like "why do you have bbq on every single killer":and then preceded to tell me the news. It didn't force my hand at all, I learned very quick that earning bp in the early stages sucked hard, and that was one way that I could always get bonus bp even after I had used all my personal BP bouns items.
My point is it at that point what perks I ran didn't matter in the least bit because I sucked and had no clue what synergized or didn't, I was blind in the fog just stumbling around until my eyes adjusted and learned the basics. What did matter was I needed blood points and a lot of them extremely fast.
"Forcing your hand" may be pushing it, but don't think your experience very much supports my argument? You may not have felt "forced", in a literal sense, but your first instinct were to unlock and run a perk for 200+ hours solely because it would speed up progression. I don't think that's healthy. Baseline progression should just be brought up to a reasonable level.
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If your objective is to learn, I'd suggest running pure slowdown (Corrupt Intervention, Deadlock, Pain Resonance, etc..) and a single information perk (BBQ, Discordance, Tinkerer, etc..) that way you spend less time looking for survivors and more time actually chasing them.
Bamboozle and Enduring are a fantastic chase perks, I'll admit, but they may interfere with your actual ability to get better.
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"It's literally a lose situation at that point"
Yes, it quite literally is, well put. It's not a major problem, survivors lost, that's how that works.
Slugging for the final kill is unfathomably boring, I agree, but you're blowing things way out of proportion.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622692#Comment_3622692
An increase in the overall bloodpoint gains is cool, but WITH WGLF and BBQ reverted.
What happened to those perks is unacceptable.
Can you expand on that?
Original WGLF and BBQ lead to noticeable decreases in variety and forced beginners hands, which, among other things, is why I dislike bloodpoint gains being tied to any perk whatsoever. Could you clarify your position some more?
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@Dream_Whisper said:
If by chance I am making survivors bleed out intentionally, as killer; more often then not... they forced me into that predicament and abused bad map designs. I had a game in which I play the new alien map as Chucky, and I had a squad whom was abusing sabotage /can't hook me builds for every Survivor in that team. They were not caring about winning but more on teabags and making it impossible for me to hook everyone, especially with how bad the hook spawns in that map particular; in which they used purple hook distance offerings and how they can nearly shut down any hook potentially. It not exactly easy for me to hook everyone in time without them getting off with power struggle, boil over, that perk that allows a fellow teammate to get off faster, etx. So yes had to play different and pretty much slugg most of the time until they were out of unbreakable and I was lucky enough to hook kill two survivors while the rest bleed out for being slug too long and that the closet hooks were to far apart foe me to successful eliminate them. I could have been the generous Killer and risk the Survivors breaking free; but I was simply trying to win a adept challenge then, so I simply couldn't risk it.
Edited the post. I agree, there are exceptions.
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@GeneralV said:
And please give WGLF its bloodpoint gains back. That would help so much.
Let's not. I don't think it's too terrible an idea in the meantime, but we desperately need a long term solution, not a band-aid fix. Beginners should not feel the need to run specific perks in order to make significant progress.
Offerings are well overdue for a complete rework, which should have a positive impact on bloodpoint economy (hopefully). And I wouldn't mind seeing an increase to overall bloodpoint gains either, especially for survivors.
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@Seraphor said:
So Boil Over and Sabotaging hooks should be bannable too?
Edited the post. Felt like common sense to me some situation would make it justifiable. Hopefully this clears things up.
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@VomitMommy said:
Killers need to have option to bleed out survivors as long Background Player exists.
Survivors can also get spots, where it is impossible to hook them. Well, bleed out...
I can see having 4 slugs and killer waiting is not really nice, but it's definetly not bannable. Could be fixed with give up system...
There are obvious exceptions, of course. I'm solely talking about situations where blatant toxicity is at play.
Bleeding survivors out because you couldn't pick them up and had to leave them slugged is boring, but fine. Bleeding survivors out explicitly to upset them is not.