OmegaXII
OmegaXII
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819314#Comment_3819314
I know the quote is not at me
But I never complain about suicides. If someone wants to go next so be it
If someone dies at 5 gens at will I just do the same and move on with another game
Again, this is a game, and being "mad" at a game is the last thing I will ever do in my life
While it’s good quality of you not being tilted, I still think survivors shouldn’t be able to leave the match so early without any consequences.
It’ll be fine if it’s 1v1 game, but this is a team-based game. You’re screwing over all other people in the match including Killer, wasting everyone’s time.It’s funny this is still a thing for a 8-year Online Game :(
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I mean, she is still not fun to play against, so...
Yeah, that’s a totally legit reason.
So why don’t just remove the bans on all DC when we’re at it?PS: Don’t complain if your teammates suicide for any reason then, not just against SM.
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It seems like many people misunderstood what OP wanted to say.
Yes Blight is still a strong killer, but he’s a lot less fun to play without the hug tech, especially for OP since he had spent so much time mastering it..
To OP, honestly I don’t really know what to say to make you feel better, but next time try not to master any ‘tech’ since they have more chance to get ‘fixed’…
(The same can be said for every single thing in the game though, everything is subjected to change. That’s why I never really ‘main’ any Killer…)
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Well honestly from my experience, it's hard to disagree with you. I certainly see Survivors mess up WAY MORE than normal in Chaos Shuffle.
At the same time I'm winning far more games than normal, because I'm used to not bringing any regression perks…
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"These killers all have a common trait in which they can all ignore looping, any killer that can't do that is at a massive disadvantage."
This is exactly why.
Any Killer who doesn't have anti-loop just can't end the chase quickly enough to keep up the Gen Speed. Nobody wants to buy/play that Killer, so it makes sense for Devs to avoid creating these type of Killers.
So far I don't see any way to fix this. If you make the Killer interactive (AKA loopable), he will be destroyed by Gen speed.
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I would say be patient with her blink, don't just spam it mindlessly.
Sometimes you can just follow survivors slowly, and they'll make mistake themselves when they're trying hard to break your line of sight. Only start blinking once you have clear sight of them.
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The biggest problem is that the match nowadays are simply too fast. Most of my matches finish under 10 minutes.
So to counteract this, the killer either has to be very oppressive in chase, or having strong mobility. Obviously the former is out of question as Survivor will complain about no counterplay, so mobility is the only answer.
Anyone without mobility is basically dead.
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He isn’t that bad, but he can feel pretty powerless if Survivors know how to counter him, especially SWF who constantly chases and reveal you.
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Meanwhile I had games where two Survivors left refuse to do Gens and hide for 10+ minutes, essentially holding the Killer hostage…
At least 4 minutes bleed-out is better than that.
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I don't like the change. It was so incredibly hard to track someone with it back when it was 100%.
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@Mortecaii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742958#Comment_3742958
It's disrespect basically because It's only said when you lose the game, and the other side wins. How many times on average do you see "GG WP" when you stomp the other side? Probably not much. But if X side stomps you, then It's almost always "GG WP".
That's the whole point of my post is to call these A wipes out. It's so annoying seeing GG when it was clear that the other side only reserves it for when they won.Nope. I always say GG on every single match, even those I won. Most of the time I receive the reply of GG too, so I don't think many people take it as an offense.
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Why would someone say GG if he wants to disrespect the opponent LOL. Saying GGEZ or generally any trash talk is far better and effective.
That's why I think saying GG is just out of polite. I do it all the time.
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… You literally described why this system shouldn't be a thing.
If SM is a problem, it's up to Devs to fix it, just like the old Legion.
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He’s a new killer that’s only been out for 4 days, so is kinda hard to not have fun with him.
But once the freshness dies down, I think he’ll just disappear like usual..
For me, I’m not going to buy him at the moment, because what I get now might change into something completely different later on.
Just think of all the changes from PTB. They can easily do the same right now, and Vecna will be completely different than now. So I won’t risk it.
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”Gen speeds are slower than ever”
Yep of course you’ll say this when all slowdown perks are nerfed THIS patch.
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@Pulsar said:
Killers were gonna tunnel anyway, don't act like gen regression stopped anyone lol
You could give most of those players a perk that added another gen to the Trial every time they hooked someone and they'd still say that Survivors are OP and they'd still tunnel
I think you missed the problem. With the route they’re taking right now, they are actually balancing the game around tunnelling, and promote more Killers to tunnel.
Just ask yourself. How are your games usually go if Killer decides to play nice, especially without slowdowns? I’ll tell you mine, I won most of it as Solo.
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@Caiman said:
I got Bloodhound twice in a row.
But at least I wasn't the Jill I played against who got Self Care + No Mither.
That Territory, I got it twice in a row too LOL.
@Yatol said:
Not me but a survivor who i matched against had: No Mither, OoO, For the People and Selfcare
What really?? That was totally sucks hahaha
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@Depressedlegion said:
Enduring and agi aren't all that bad though...
Erm.. Enduring isn't a bad perk, but it's really trash on Singularity..
That leaves only Agitation 🤣
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Wait until Unforseen gets nerfed because “It was used in 40% of the matches.”
They won’t stop until all perks are dead.
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@Venusa said:
I don't think most people realize that BHVR's intention is to buff Killers basekit and make them more viable without depending on certain perks.
The maps are smaller than ever, loops are weaker than ever, Killers are stronger than ever, Survivor perks are weaker than ever… but somehow people still don't grasp the bigger picture and the only thing they see is "regression perks are slightly nerfed, it's over!"…
Playing Survivor has become a nightmare with most Killers just over-winning most of their games. The sense of progression is lost and trying to progress the game against perks like Pain Res + Pop + DMS + Grim Embrace is futile.
At this point it feels like you're going against Killer's gen perks and not the individual Killer. The Killer doesn't matter. Killer's skill or power doesn't matter. It's just about which perks they have.
I welcome these changes and think that they're healthy for the game and majority of the player base. I know there's the whole "but in high-MMR… but D tier Killers…" arguments but honestly I'm so tired of all these tiers and over-competitiveness sucking the fun out of this game.
Some people forget that both sides need to feel a sense of progression and fun for this game to function.
So it's interesting that people are surprised about the slight regression nerfs. It was obviously on its way.
Wow, you’re basically saying “If you’re high MMR or play D Tier Killer, you deserve to lose.”
You tired of hearing them doesn’t change the fact that these Killers need slowdowns.
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Btw to the OP, all the mistakes you pointed out are like amateur mistakes, so your advice is useful for Killers with less than 500 hours.
But once you reach certain MMR, you’ll soon realise that it really isn’t about how you improve anymore. You might still lose the game even when you made all the correct decision in the match.
Take me as example. I hate slowdown perks in general, so I don’t run them. For me I legit can only win games against bad Survivors which I can completely outplay them in chases.
But against competent Survivors who’s able to go toe-to-toe with me, it’s basically a lose since I really don't have enough time to chase everyone.
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@squbax said:
Agreed, altho is more of a dbd player thing rather than a killer thing. People to this day do not know how easy it is to counter new sadako, and there is a ton of videos explaining how easy it is to destroy her, yet you see a lot of players die to her.
Also dredge, I still see people locking two lockers next to each other, and I am like HOW??? WHY???
It is more because its way easier to conclude the game is unbalance rather than admit you lost because you are not good enough.
Well I still do it when I play Survivor :)
Well I mean, it’s a Dredge, which usually is a chill game LOL
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I don’t understand why they’re so obsessed with stats, and make changes depending on it. “If it’s commonly used, it’s OP and deserves a nerf.”
Yes Pop & Pain are used in 40% of the match. But instead of nerfing it, shouldn’t they actually find the reason behind it?
Also, half of the perks are literally trash, so isn’t buffing those useless perks better than just nerfing stuff?
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I honestly don't think most of the slowdown perk nerfs are even that big of a deal. Most of the changes except for Pop are pretty minor imo. Deadlock is 5 seconds shorter, Grim Embrace is only 2 seconds shorter on the first 3 tokens, and Pain Resonance only got a 5% nerf. None of those changes make those perks bad or not worth using anymore. The Pop nerf was the only one that kinda stood out to me as being more severe.
It might seem like a small nerf on individual, but numbers really do add up to become a significant nerf.
Sure Killers will still run them, but not because they’re good, but you really need any regression you can get at high MMR, especially with weaker M1 Killers.
I’m not sure why they keep nerfing stuff, while there’s over 100 perks that’s just literally trash and needs buff. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714991#Comment_3714991
Not to sound rude, but if that's your perception of the macro game, it might explain why you need to run so much slowdown.
There's more to it than that. Spreading pressure is integral to playing killer because it's the part of the gameplay that results in slowing the match down- and note that by spreading pressure, I mean forcing multiple survivors to react to things at once. Think about the sort of basic bread-and-butter situation the killer would be trying to engineer: One survivor on the hook, one in chase, one peeling off to save. That cuts the generator efficiency down hard while it's happening, so trying to cycle that is a cornerstone of basic killer play.
That's what I mean by "macro game". Not doing that is gonna require bringing a lot more slowdown to compensate for leaving the survivors to do whatever they want.
This is a 1 vs 4 game. By nature of the game, there’ll always be at least 1 people on Gens the whole time. Unless Survivors play badly, it’s impossible to “keep multiple Survivors busy at once”.
The only way to do this is to tunnel the first survivor out and make it 3v1. That way everyone is occupied and no one can do Gens. But surely Survivors hate this playstyle, isn’t it?
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Yeah it’s sad the android doesn’t receive any change this time..
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714853#Comment_3714853
Pop was pretty weak when it was 20%, now it's just back to that again. In my opinion Pop is the healthiest slowdown perk in the game because it requires the killer to hook a survivor and then move to the gen they want to pop.
Honestly I will never understand why the devs don't take more risks and try and nerf camping and tunneling at basekit more, before nerfing slowdown options of killers that help killers play fair and square without tunneling and camping. This patch looks like it will just nerf killers that play in a fair way, while not doing much about tunneling and camping killers, especially with that dreadfull DS nerf.
It’s easy to figure it out. They love stats, and usually makes changes based on that :)
They can’t really get the stats of how prevalence camping/tunnelling is, so that’s why they don’t get touched LOL.
Just my speculation btw.
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Survivor that uses it will still get permanent broken the entire match though.
But considering Genrush is Survivor meta, maybe we’ll be seeing it very often in high MMR and comps.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I did not really notice that Killers tried to avoid DS. The thing is that even when the Nerf back then was reverted, 5 seconds nowadays is worse than 5 seconds pre-6.1.0, because Killers got stronger and Maps got weaker overall.
Reducing it to 4 will probably just result in the Perk not being used anymore.
Well, I did notice Survivors trying to force DS on Killers more often.
Maybe that's why you didn't notice less tunnelling because they asked for it :)
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Wow, this patch is actually very neat for both sides! I'm a Killer Main, but I actually agree with all the gen regression nerfs!
All the problematic Survivor perks finally got changed too! Finally I don't have to deal with BGP & FTP/Buckle Up Combo, which is so freaaaking NICE!
Only one problem still remains.. Flashbang save against walls, but it's more towards a bug fix. But overall I'm very content of this update!
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@goodfriday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712474#Comment_3712474
Have you read where I say when a killer is being outplayed by a survivor whos good at looping or mind gaming they dc? Have you seen the part where kill dc just like survivor if they do not get map they wont like? Let me add this one let me and my 4 swf(load in with distortion) killer have lethal see no one and dc(blight/huntress being the common lovers of the perk) its so funny when I say blight or huntress its literally them and my chat gets a big laugh out of it all the time on stream cause they dc expecting they was going to get some fast early down.. Sure other killers may run it but those two is 90% more likely to be the ones who have it.
I do not dc on nurse, I find other killers way more annoying like brain dead skull merchant/spirit. If i get whoop by a good nurse I understand because she is 50/50, either a god one or a baby one.
Also I swf only in this game now so umm yeah that solo que dcing=dont affect me good try there. Some killers I am sure love when a survivor dc because they pick the most sweatiest builds/add on and killers and its not because of no swf. I seen some people (wont mention names) who literally make youtubes and admitting like oh hey today am here to play x killer with this perk/add on build and make survivors really angry specially if they are streamers to get reactions from them. Like how low can one go to do things like that?
Killers do not care about survivors so the whole 3 v 1 excuse do not work. If killers care about survivors they would not make one million topics a day asking for survivor perks to nerf that makes the game a challenge for them. Killers are the one literally killing the game. Killers will dc for things like(constant being blind save/head on/cant catch a looper/breaking their devour hope early, body blocks/sabo. You cant tell me that does not happen now.
Why are you bringing your own experience to the table? I'm talking about the general playerbase, not you specifically.
Besides, you were talking about Killers lobby dodging, and compared it to Survivors DC in match. So why suddenly talk about Killers DC now?
In any online PvP game, DC is just not okay and shouldn't be encouraged at all. This goes for both Killers and Survivors. If you don't agree this, you shouldn't play any online game.
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Well technically you're right. Hooking Survivors itself doesn't provide any value, until you 3-hook a Survivor to kill him.
This is also why tunnelling is best strategy, as there's no incentive to go for 8 hooks while keeping everyone alive.
Personally I would balance the game like this. Survivor gets their repair speed slowed down globally for every hook killer gets, but it speeds up the moment someone dies. This would make it more balanced.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712480#Comment_3712480
Oh, come on, that's a pedantic nitpick and you know it. Obviously when I say your ultimate goal is to ignore them, I mean insofar as countering their tactic, not the overall goal of the entire match.
But I'm glad this is where the conversation has gone, because it's revealed now that the problem isn't survivors weaponising DS, the problem is that you want to punish someone for annoying you and DS stops you from doing it. That's not the same thing, at all, even a little bit.
If you don't care about that element and you just want to respond with the appropriate tactic for like, winning, you'd ignore them because they're giving you free value. Same reason why flashlight squads can actually be great to go against for some players, they're free wins with very active gameplay— but they can be annoying to some players too.
"But I'm glad this is where the conversation has gone, because it's revealed now that the problem isn't survivors weaponising DS, the
problem is that you want to punish someone for annoying you and DS stops you from doing it."So you agreed it's an annoying thing to face, and it still doesn't count as weaponize DS? And now you're suggesting Killers to actually ignore these acts, and say it's BETTER to ignore them? So I just have to take the bodyblock in the face, leave them alone in Deep Wound just to get mended in 12s and get on Gens rightaway, all while I chase the healthy unhooker who's already miles away?
Just ask yourself. If DS doesn't exist, would these Survivors dare to bodyblock killers with BT/OTR? It's exactly because of DS Backup that allows them to weaponize these perks without any fear.
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I heard not only she has lullaby, but it’s directional. Combined with Survivors can see the Auras of TV, it’s borderline impossible to actually surprise someone with her.
Sadako needs some love :(
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712465#Comment_3712465
But you're not going after that survivor anyway.
You are in chase with the unhooker already. Hit the OTR/DS user and keep chasing the unhooker.
Your ultimate goal when someone is trying to weaponise any kind of anti tunnel is to ignore them. You only hit them - into Deep Wound or into the dying state - if you can't avoid it. Otherwise, you just keep paying attention to the chase you're currently in. You don't reverse course and start chasing the person you know you can't hook just to slug them, you ignore them and slug them only if they make you slug them.
If they do make you, that's a good situation for you. If they don't, then you just keep chasing like normal. The best case scenario (and frankly, one of the more common ones) is that they'll keep running after you but won't actually have any doorways to bodyblock you in and you just get to chase two survivors at once for no downside.
I do play killer games. That's how I know these things, I'm pulling from my experience and my wider understanding of the game.
No, my ultimate goal is NOT ignoring bodyblockers. It’s KILLS. Why do you think Killers are called Killers??
If DS doesn’t exist, I WILL, 100%, NO MERCY, going for that fking trash Bodyblocker, and make sure he gets punished and die as quickly as possible. Wanna get in my way when I actually give you a chance to leave by chasing the Unhooker? Fine, YOU DIE.
Now DS literally eliminates the risk of Killer doing this, else you get punished with 5s stun, and Survivors getting away. How is this not counted as weaponising DS?
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@goodfriday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711968#Comment_3711968
The same for killers who lobby shops
They see a swf= they dodge.
They see p 100s.=they dodge=
they see ttvs specially p 100s=they dodge.
like survivors they get a map that do not work with their killer or ruins their idea=they dc before or during the match
survivors last min switch to another character from p 0 to 100=they dc before match even loads
Survivors switch the things like 4 flash or strong tool boxes light to avoid lightborn/franklins last second=dc before match start
They get looped or outplayed in a way by a good survivor solo que or swf=they dc
Last the fact at least killers have the luxury to lobby shop is not even fair cause survivors cannot do that, maybe if survivors know what killer they was going up against it probably be less dc.
The fact killers are able to see what survivors are bring lightborn/franklins is crazy , if perks was to a random gamble why does show survivors items so the killer can easily know oh ill go franklins/lightborn?
But ofc its always just survivors who do it right? Killers also try to justify why they dc as well which is all of the petty reasons above I listed.
Lobby dodge is not as worse as DC. It just takes a bit more time for you to find a match.
But DC is completely different. You load into a match, Survivors noticing it’s Nurse, and one of them DC rightaway. This ruins the experience of all 4 remaining players in the game, wasting everyone’s time.
For Survivor, it’s basically 3 vs 1, which means the game becomes very unfair for them.
For Killer, it’s no fun at all when you’re playing a game that you know your opponent has basically no chance of winning.
If you actually think DC is okay, then I hope anyone who got matched with you straight-up DC in first 5 seconds, forcing you to play the game with 3x bots every single game. HAVE FUN.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712436#Comment_3712436
So, couple things.
1: When you're running down the use case for just DS here, you say that slugging the DS survivor means starting "a new chase", but it's not a new chase. It's the chase you were already having, and the survivor you were chasing got a protection hit's worth of distance. Not nothing, but not enough for it to count as a new chase, either.
2: Also in that first use case, you mention "have the downed survivor be fully reset by another survivor" as though that bolsters your point, but it actually undoes your point. That scenario involves THREE survivors off generators, and you expect me to believe that's somehow not beneficial to the killer?
3: DS combined with OTR just kind of circles back around to how a lot of people think scenarios where OTR is used to tank hits is somehow weaponising DS. That's not weaponising DS, it's bodyblocking with OTR. If they follow you for a second hit, you down them and THEN we start talking about DS, and you've also been chasing two survivors at once for that entire time.
4: I don't understand your point about Plot Twist at all. Just ignore them? They were going to reset anyway, they're not a target you're actually interested in at the moment. Just ignore them and let them use their perk while not actually stopping you from chasing their teammate. They get the exact same value as if they ran AWAY from you and used their Plot Twist.
I think this point (still on 4 here) sort of highlights that a lot of people only compare these aggressive bodyblocking plays with scenarios where they get to hook the person bodyblocking, but that's looking at it the wrong way. If you're not tunnelling, you're not going to be paying attention to the unhooked survivor anyway. If in these scenarios they get away with not getting hooked, that's the same as if they weren't being aggressive at all. The only difference is that they're gifting YOU more pressure by intentionally cutting potential generator efficiency down by a third because they want to TRY and weaponise their perks.
Moving on, yeah, you can't weaponise DS. You can't force the killer to actually eat the stun, and what you can force them to do - slug you - is as beneficial to them as it is to you at BEST. More realistically, it's JUST beneficial to them. A weapon that harms you more than your opponent isn't a weapon worth talking about.
As a brief aside, this argument all comes from the killer perspective, not the survivor perspective, so your attempt at snidely insulting my gameplay is missing the mark extra hard.
For your 3rd point, it’s 100% false, literally.
Yes, OTR allows you to bodyblock hits. But then Killer has two option. He either chase you, or continue to chase the unhooker.Now here’s what DS does. It STOPS Killers from going after YOU, even when you did such an aggressive play just because the risk of DS. No, don’t tell Killer to just slug you, because chasing & downing you takes time, while the remaining 3 Survivors are now all Gen Rushing without any fear because they know Killer can’t progress their objective (Hook You) even if you’re downed.
Yes you don’t get to actually ‘use’ DS to stun the Killer, but you already benefit hugely from it. If you still don’t understand, just play some Killer games.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712059#Comment_3712059
Quick question.
What bearing does DS have on this scenario?
No, seriously, think about that. If the DS user bodyblocked to take an Endurance hit, mended, and then disabled their DS by going to repair gens… what exactly did DS change about this scenario?
Nothing. That's just normal Endurance bodyblocking.
LOL Are you saying Killer can see what DS User does while chasing the unhooker? Killer is already occupied with the unhooker, so DS deactivate doesn't matter anymore. It has done its job, which is to keep Killers away from going after you when you do the bodyblock.
Of course, unless the DS User is baby survivor who does gens on your face.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712043#Comment_3712043
Absolutely, the other two are on gens.
The problem here is that you aren't considering what the alternative is. The alternative is THREE survivors on gens.
Occupying two survivors is better than occupying one survivor. Two survivors on generators is better than three on generators. There's always going to be some gen progress being made unless you're very lucky, so your job as killer is to minimise it as much as possible while progressing your own objective,
When survivors run around after you trying and failing to bait you into eating their DS, they're making your job easier for you. Once you succeed in downing the unhooker anyway, chances are good that they've only just picked up the one trying to bodyblock, at the cost of dragging someone else off gens or using up a valuable Unbreakable charge. That's pretty good for you in the long run.
Do you expect the DS user who bodyblocked you to just stay there doing nothing while you chase the unhooker? He'll start mending rightaway, and repairing gens just like usual. Sometimes he'll even finish those 90% gens before mending.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712028#Comment_3712028
I never said that slugging is the best outcome for the Killer. Obviously, if you have Pain Res or PGTW, hooking is better than slugging. But slugging does not hurt the Killer at all. The Survivors dont benefit from a slugging Killer.
So maybe it benefits the Killer less if they slug instead of hooking. But it never hurts them.
And dont worry, Killers already know that slugging is good for them.
Killer does not gain any progress from slugging Survivors. A killer that only slugs will lose the game oftenly, unless he’s an extremely great chaser, AND Survivors messed up really hard.
The ONLY time where Killer benefits from slugging is if he sees another survivor. If no one is nearby, and Killer still slugs, it’s a lose for Killer as he just gave up his progression (hooks) for no reason. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712033#Comment_3712033
Their time is the one being wasted, not the killer's.
Again, don't compare this situation to how long that chase would take without bodyblocking. That's not the thing you need to compare this to. Don't even look at the chase time, frankly.
Ask this, instead: How much repair time would the survivors get with three on generators instead of two? How much better is it for the survivor team to let the unhooked survivor heal and reset, instead of them chasing the killer around to add a few seconds to their chase with someone else?
It's not weaponising DS because the end result for the survivor team is often worse than if they'd just treated DS as a defensive tool. Even the best case scenario is an extremely marginal benefit with downsides.
Are you forgetting that there are 4 Survivors in a match? Yes 2 Survivors not on Gens, but what about the other 2? They are not contested in any way, so those 2 gens will get done very quickly.
The only way for you to get them off gens is to quickly down the unhooker. The longer the chase goes on, the more progress they have on Gens.
All these are just a single instance. Now imagine every Survivor do this on every single hook.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712014#Comment_3712014
In that scenario, you would continue to chase the unhooker, who is as far away as a survivor can get with a protection hit. Not nothing, but not terribly game-swinging either in most scenarios.
Your ultimate goal is to ignore that survivor. You hit them only when it cannot be avoided. Ignore them and they'll keep running around after you to try and force perk value, which is impossible now, so they're just wasting their own time. Exactly like flashlight squads.
So? That means it’s a free distance for the Unhooker, meaning DS user has successfully waste Killer’s time by extending the chase. How is this not counted as weaponise DS?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712003#Comment_3712003
Slugging a Survivor NEVER hurts a Killer. What the #########?
Those are mental gymnastics at its finest. Not doing Gens is always good for the Killer, no exceptions. Or how do you twist that a Survivor on the ground (willingly or not) is better than a Survivor NOT on the ground?
Oh is it? Slugging NEVER hurts Killer, is that what you’re saying?
If that’s what you say, “All Killers, hear me out! From now on, go for 4-man slug every single match! It’s what Survivors thought to be the best strategy!”
Imagine you get into a match as Pig, slug the first Survivor, and now you search for another one. Since you don’t hook anybody, so no Pop Pain etc, so by the time you find another Survivor and injure him, 3 gens done, and you got no hook. WOW Killer is winning!
Now unless you’re some god tier Pig who ends chase under 30s, and is capable for going for 4x slugs, Survivors can just reset everything you did by picking up slugged Survivors, as you don’t gain any progress throughout the entire match. Even better, there’s 4x Unbreakable, so they can just pick up themselves! WOW Killer is winning again!
“Slugging NEVER hurts Killer, eh”
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712003#Comment_3712003
I mean, sure, but why would you chase someone with DS to the edge of the map? You only even bother to hit them if you absolutely have to, otherwise you ignore them.
Unless that's just meant to be an example of slugging not being to your benefit, which granted, but that logic doesn't apply to the situation we're talking about.
EDIT: Whoops, misread who this was responding to. Still!
Yes it does apply.
Imagine a DS Survivor with OTR bodyblocks a hallway, and Killer is forced to hit him. Now what should the Killer do? Still going for the unhooker who’s probably miles away now, or chase the DS guy? If you chase him, and if you managed to down him in 30s, so now what? Wait for 30s for DS to expire? Or leave him and start looking other healthy Survivors? Either way, it’s a lose-lose situation for Killer, as Killer doesn’t gain any progress without hooks.
Even worse, after chasing for 30s, the DS user jumps into locker just as Killer is about to down him, and Killer is forced to wait there until Deepwound/DS are gone, otherwise it’s a free escape. Sure you may tell me to just eat DS, but that definitely counts as weaponising DS.
So tell me how is this not benefit Survivors, but counted as “pressure” for Killer?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711988#Comment_3711988
A slugged Survivor is also Map Pressure. Less with Unbreakable, but without Unbreakable you still have 2 Survivors not on Gens.
There’s a huge difference between slugging survivor intentionally, and being forced to slug survivor. The former benefits the Killer, while the latter hurts him.
Imagine if Survivor runs toward edge of map where Killer can’t hook him, then Killer is forced to leave him. Sure he can’t do Gens to progress the game, but same goes to the Killer as he doesn’t gain any progress without hooking Survivor. All the time you spend chasing that Survivor is wasted.
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If the unhooked guy bodyblocks the Killer to prevent him from going after the unhooker, that’s called weaponise what’s supposed to be defensive mechanics. DS, BT, OTR, all are under the same category.
By the way, Survivors still have the option to get into the locker and force Killers to take it.
For example when a Killer downs a Survivor under pallet, a DS user that just got unhooked run straight towards the Killer and patrols the area for the save. When Killer gets close, he immediately jumps into locker. Now the Killer can’t really pick up anyone without being punished.
Of course Killer can just take the DS, but that’s definitely counted as weaponising it.
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You know, I thought DC in any online games are hugely despised by players, but apparently DBD doesn’t.
In DBD Survivors actually start justifying DC just because matches don’t go their way.
See Killers you don’t like? DC. Noticing Killers bringing Meta Perks? DC. Get caught first? DC.
I mean, what the hell is happening here??
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711059#Comment_3711059
By the way, I agree the one Survivor who didn't bring Distortion have to suffer from tunnelling, which I really don't like (I'm 12 hook guy). If only I can find someone else.. :(
lol. So you are going to tunnel regardless, and feel bad its the non-distortion user? The team is probably running Distortion because, well… you we're gonna tunnel anyway. This will be a constant cycle. Tunneling is the #1 strat, Distortion and DS are the only real counters. Not everyone is great at looping so this is just how it will be. Game on, Fog denizens!
So.. what am I supposed to do? I hooked a guy, and she’s the only one who’s revealed. So I should just ignore her Aura, and go find someone else even though I have absolutely no idea where they are?
By the way, she died at 5th hooks, so it’s not like I didn’t try finding someone else to chase. If this still counts as tunnelling, then I have no words to say for you.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711237#Comment_3711237
If you go to my profile you can see my stream recordings, I usually verbalize my thought process and decisions to give you an idea.
Bloody Fingernail is basically an auto lock for me as a majority of your hits will be from your TV speed boosts catching the survivors out of position. After that Ring Drawing and Videotape Copy are decent for more Condemn. I personally always autolock Remote Control as my second addon though as I think it and Fingernail are her two best. Remote Control gives you very crucial game info for managing your TV and condemn pressure.
Use your Demanifest around loops. They'll either instant drop, you won't get stunned, and you've removed the pallets fast, or they greed it and then you immediately manifest getting the hit before they get back around. Once all of her flickering bugs are fixed you might have some mind games to use there "potentially" but it's definitely too broken in its current state.
Just remember you're a macro killer, not an anti loop killer. Your focus is managing all the survivors and their condemn stacks, not just chasing one survivor for too long. Very rarely am I ever getting two hits on one survivor in a row from healthy to down. Hit, leave, hit, leave. You don't wanna be playing a hold w simulator. Your hits are from TV teleport speed boosts, not chasing them down as an m1 killer.
Her biggest skill component that has a lot of nuances to it to learn is juggling TV's and condemn. It's a balancing act. You want to be teleporting as soon as TVs turn on. This because you want to limit their ability to pick up tapes. You have very little agency in preventing condemn removal once they have a tape, so your strongest prevention is them getting the tapes in the first place. That said, you also don't want to be teleporting to TVs solely to turn them off, you want high condemn output from them. So as soon as you teleport at the start you look how many condemn applications you get (their portraits will light up for a couple seconds if they get a stack). If you get 2 survivors receiving stacks it's a maybe, 3 or more survivors getting stacks though? Start teleport spamming to wrack up their stacks. 1 or less stacks stop teleporting. You don't want to waste your mobility and condemn pressure for that little.
Remember condemn is applied around turned on TVs. This means the more TVs that are up the more chances to apply you have and less TVs, less condemn. So you're getting the best bang for your back on early teleports and getting diminishing return the more you do it.
This is where Remote Control comes in for auras. If you see them by a turned on TV getting condemn stacks from your teleport and ignoring the turned on TV, punish them. Start spamming other TVs to make that TV by them keep piling their stacks on. Are they not ignoring the TV and going to turn it off? Then don't get greedy and immediately teleport to that TV to prevent the tape pick up and probably a hit. So you need to understand when to teleport to a TV that you know a survivor is right next to and when not to. It all depends how the survivor is playing. Even though I know I can get that hit with them right there by that TV I want to pile those free stacks on them first if they aren't respecting it, but you don't want them getting that tape either. This is the balancing act between knowing when to keep TVs on near them to get the most value out of it and when to remove it so they don't deny your value. You don't want to get too greedy.
Condemn stacks are more important than hooks. Yes hits and downs are important but if I know I can pile some free condemn stacks on them I'd rather let them stay on that gen or circling that loop getting 3 condemn stacks instead of a hit.
Be patient on your teleports. You want to give them as little time to react to your teleport. So if i teleport and see a survivor aura running to a TV across the map I don't teleport immediately. Let them get closer and teleport RIGHT as they're getting up to it. This guarantees the hit. If you teleport as soon as you see them heading to the TV they will react too soon.
All this macro juggling is enabled with the help of Remote Control which is why it's one of my auto locks. Other wise a lot of this stuff you have to guess.
If you have the option of multiple survivors I'll prioritize either the one with a tape to destroy it or if it's one I know has a lot of condemn stacks and I want to lock them in. You'll generally have a sense of where people are at in their stacks as you see that white ping around their portraits every time they get a stack.
Now here's another trick most people don't utilize for free map info built into her kit. Since you can see when survivors get condemn stacks on a teleport and you know they only get stacks within a small radius around turned on TVs you can use this to know survivor locations. If I teleport and get no stacks applied but one side of the map has all turned on TV's then that immediately tells you all the survivors are on the other side where the TVs are off and no one is on the side with the turned on TVs. So you pay attention to where TVs are on or off when you teleport and how many or who gets stacks. This will tell you where survivors are at in general or ones specifically you're trying to target that have high condemn. Even end game after you closed the hatch and your watching the gates, same thing. Leave one TV on near a gate and none on near the other. Teleport to other random TVs on the map. No stacks? Then you know what gate they're by. Stacks? Now you know they're near that other gate or heading towards it. Every time you teleport, stacks, stacks, stacks…no stacks on that last teleport..what does that mean? Well if they all the sudden stopped getting stacks then that immediately tells you they are near that last TV you just teleported from.
As you can see there is a lot of depth to Sadako that most people don't realize.
Wow such a detailed explanation, thanks a lot! I'll go check out your stream to learn how you play!
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711149#Comment_3711149
I don't want to totally discourage you from getting her though. I personally still find her fun.
You can do very well on the majority of your games if you get very good with her. As mentioned the average survivor is pretty bad so you can still have a good time. It's just gonna basically be an auto lose when you finally go against an actually good group. You can help alleviate some of those auto lose matches if you can tell in lobby they're gonna be a 4 man on coms by throwing a map offering since Sadako is one of those killers that can be extremely stronger on certain maps.
You can win regularly even with bad killers since there's so many bad survivors, you're just relying on getting bad survivors unfortunately.
I'm currently on a 50 win streak with Sadako with a roughly 97% win rate. Data pool of 161 games with only 6 losses and 0 draws. Most all of the games recorded. So you can perform well even if she's bad if you really reach her skill ceiling.
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711122#Comment_3711122
I’m a P100 Sadako and yeah I hate to say it but blueberry is right. :(
Sadako definitely still needs help. She has A LOT of negatives to her. Way too many if you ask me.
I just roll with it anyways in my own frustration due to my passion and love for the 🇯🇵 Japanese Franchise.She needs help.
Hehe I’m up for challenges, so I just bought her 😎
Do you guys veterans have any tips for me? :)