MrPenguin
MrPenguin
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@List_of_concerns said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2834288#Comment_2834288
We're on the same side of the argument. I agree that B:CoH can be a little problematic (especially when it's combined w/ other healing items/perks.
I'm just trying to be reasonable and suggest some functionality that already exists, and it better than the way it currently functions. Copy/paste is kind of how they roll for 9 months out of the year.
If it makes you feel any better, I just bring Botany Knowledge and a brown med-kit. It's a faster heal and I don't have to walk across the map for 90s to be in range of the stupid thing.
Alright that's understandable. It just sucks we have to settle for copy/paste to even maybe potentially see something a little better :(
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@List_of_concerns said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2834172#Comment_2834172
I mean... isn't the current sentiment that Boons are actually BETTER than Hex Perks? At least those changes would actually bring them in line with each other.
Also, the break would be as fast as the snuff and even the slow Killers move much faster than survivors. It's not like you can't learn totem spawns.
And, one more again... lmao. It may be 4 players searching for the Hex, but only one of them can actually break it.
yes they are better, thats part of the problem. Sure that action would be technically better, but we should be aiming to solve the issue not just slightly improve it. CoH got nerfed, is it better? Yes. Is it still a problem? Also yes.
Moving 10-15% faster doesnt make up for up to 4 survivors searching, which would be 400% (100 x 4 survivors). Even just 2 is 200%, way faster than a killer.
Sure 1 can break it while 2 get on gens and the other is running the killer, if the killer searches for the hex thats literally all their side is doing.
Boons should be weaker than hexes, not equal or better.
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@List_of_concerns said:
The fix is pretty simple. Just make them function exactly like Hex Totems.
- Make Boon Totems breakable
- Make Boon Totem effects global (map wide)
- Remove the audio from Boon Totems (so they are just as easy/difficult to find as Hex Totems)
Survivor perks shouldn't be as strong as killer perks. The killer can't have 4 ruins and 4 undying and 4 people to split the work between. Boons should not be equal to hexes.
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Nope, so I don't play anymore.
Survivor is boring, killer is at the mercy of the survivors except for 2-3, none of which I enjoy.
@Nun_So_Vile said:
It's also unfortunate and surprising to see as many discouraged veterans of the game. Where did it sour for y'all?
Not 100% when it started, but I know the breaking point for me and those I personally know were boons. We all switched to survivor, then got bored and just quit the game. Map "reworks" just basically being "here's a ton of pallets and breakable walls" didn't help either.
For many I hear MMR was a very big turn off. I think MMR just further exposed the problems that were already there, so the game isn't any different, its flaws are just more visible. MMR or not, all the balance problems are still there.
SBMM and the matchmaking definitely need to be improved or reworked however.
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- Boons need to be changed fundamentally.
- Gen speed/map design needs to be made much more neutral, not mostly favoring survivors most of the time
- Making a lot more killers viable, tired of the "play these 3 killers or you'll probably lose" situation. Either by buffing killers or weakening survivors.
- Make survivor gameplay more interesting, really bored of hold M1 then run in a straight line to x strong structure, then run in a circle. Finding parts for gens for example could be a thing.
- EGC starts as soon as the last gen is done, not when the gates open. End game urgency would be neat cap to a match imo.
- Perk changes. DH ect. need to be brought down, other perks need to be brought up. Rework Monstrous shrine, there's no reason it has been left that way for so long.
- Grind improvements.
- Solo survivor QOL
- A better MMR system. Old emblems were bad, current SBMM isn't great either, matchmaking needs improvements. If you're going to keep SBMM it needs to be further developed and improved.
- Encourage or reward killers for not camping or tunneling. Getting more hooks needs to be more viable as that's when everyone has the most fun.
- At least attempt to do something about toxicity, especially on the survivor side. Toxicity needs to be taken more seriously. No not running Dead Hard or NoED, no not tunneling or body blocking. Actual toxicity like flash spamming and hitting people on the hook repeatedly.
Doesn't need to be all of these, just some would be nice.
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Boons in general were a bad idea in their current implementation, COH is just the worst offender.
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@Seiko300 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2818120#Comment_2818120
Again, absolutely agree ^
The idea that you can balance Boon totems exactly like you balance Hex: Totems is absolutely ridiculous on a multitude of levels. Not only would you be gutting the boons which are reasonably balanced right now (Shadow Step, Exponential, I hear Dark Theory isn't too crazy right now in PTB but we'll see when that goes live, etc.), but you're also treating Boons disproportionately to Hex: Totems.
Think about how Boons are balanced. They were created with multiple Visual and Audio cues in mind so as to PURPOSEFULLY make them easier to discover during a match, as opposed to their darker, hidden, and sinister Hex counterparts. Boon totems are meant to be bright, and attract attention, and the hope that they bring can be snuffed out but relit again. So not only does this idea not work balance wise but it fundamentally contrasts the thematic intentions of the perk.
Not only that, but Boons also have a limited range, whether or not that range is too large or just right is up to plenty debate but the fact of the matter is they are LIMITED.
If boons are going to be treated exactly like hex's I FULLY EXPECT them to be treated like Hex's in EVERY RESPECT. That means zero audio cues, zero visual cues, and zero range limitations. If you aren't willing to commit to your own ideology in this way, then I would say such rhetoric absolutely mistreats boons and only seeks to nerf them into the ground purely out of an intense and thoughtless bias; rather than engage with the mechanic on an intellectually equal playing field as a valid and interesting mechanic.
COH is unbalanced, I absolutely agree. But this is NOT a reference point to say "all boons are therefore unbalanced" that line of logic just doesn't hold up under any kind of actual scrutiny. You cannot possibly convince me that Boon: Exponential is a powerful, much less broken and overpowered perk, and yet you somehow need to justify this in order to push the idea that all boons including exponential should be one-time activation perks.
A widespread change like this does not work because boons do not have suffer from widespread problems, which is what necessitates such a broad brushstrokes change. COH is the ONLY perk anyone ever remotely complains about, and there are PLENTY of solutions to solve that issue that also maintain the integrity of what boons as a whole are meant to be as unique mechanics in their own right.
There's not 3 other killers looking around the map to find the boons while you're in chase like survivors have for hexes, nor are there perks to help find totems on the killer side. A killer can search the map at roughly 1/4 the speed the survivors can and during that time they will be doing nothing else. Meanwhile survivors can split between chase, gens, and totem search. Killers were already on a time crunch before boons let alone after. Survivors have numbers and time on their side.
Its an asym game, the survivor perks should be weaker than a killer perk, not on the same level. Boons should not be as strong as hexes. For 1/16 perk slots you effect the entire team, meanwhile the killer uses 1/4th.
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Boons and gen times/map design, and I don't want to play the 10% of the killer roster that can compete every game.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2813335#Comment_2813335
It was across all matches
which makes it unreliable, just like Nurse being bottom or Pig/Pinhead being top killer.
Survivors struggle to find gens on that map if they're not super familiar with it. Most survivors aren't. That gives killers enough time to kill everyone.
However that's only with bad-average survivors. Good survivors will hold W and waste the killer's time while the rest do gens. So in a competent match, its not killer sided, outside of a few select killers.
We don't say something is strong or not based on low level play, so the map is not killer sided.
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I play both sides.
Delete all map offerings, they're used to abuse maps on both sides.
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Its not unless you're playing certain killers. One of the strongest "hold W" maps in the game because hallways.
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it needs another effect in addition to blindness, like oblivious or something.
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They just need to lose collision
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in addition to what everyone else is saying, you also "earn" NoED by playing the vast majority of the match 1 perk down.
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As others have said Legion.
GF and Clown not far behind.
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@Azshhh said:
Because the box is cancerously oppressive for most solo-queuers
Not to mention alot of pinheads like to run hoarder/franklins just to make you miserable
"just to make you miserable"
To use their power more effectively.
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Yes its a problem, just move the hooks to the lower Library instead of the top.
Meanwhile the people who defended Boil Over will say this is unacceptable.
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I mean, Bloodhound helps with Iron Will users, and that's a really strong perk so I wouldn't call, it useless. There's plenty of worse perks like the infamous Monstrous shrine.
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When its working no, when its not its the same as before. So considering at least sometimes its better than the old system, I can't call it worse.
Still bad tho.
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NoED isn't unfair, its just unfun. All exposed perks are unfun, its not fun to get 1 shot and/or have to play super safe because of it. Every one shot is unfun and feels cheap: Myers, Haunted, ect.
Its just a exposed hex that activated during end game. It has reasonable counters like cleansing after it procs like any other Hex. Devour Hope gives exposed and what do you do? You cleanse it. This is just end game Devour Hope.
Additionally survivors don't like it because they don't accept endgame as part of the match, they think they won already when that's not the case.
If the RNG aligns and the survivor happens to go down near the totem yes, they can be facecamped. That's just the nature of RNG, sometimes it gives you BS scenarios. Unless you want to make NoED not a hex, that can't be fixed, and I don't think people will be happy with NoED that can't be cleansed.
Idk where this notion of having to "earn" perks effects came from either and it seems to only come up when NoED is talked about. You don't earns Lithe, Sprint Burst, Botany, Windows of O., Dead Hard, and ect. you just have it. The killer plays with 1 perk down the majority of the trial. You take the downside for the effect if you think its worth it. That's the deal you make, you hinder yourself for most of the match to get an effect. That's how you "buy" the effect, by hindering yourself the rest of the trial when you could of had Pain Resonance or something in that slot.
The killer still has to chase and hit that survivor. The killer has to forgo other perks that would help during the entire trial. The survivors can cleanse the single hex just like any other. There's perks and a map item to help find totems. Its only active for the end of the match. You have the option to be safe and stop it entirely.
Tl;dr: The perk is fine from a balance standpoint, it just feels bad to play against because the match is close to the end and because its an expose perk.
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you get good Ace's?
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799939#Comment_2799939
Away from here, thought I might miss it, but nope lol. Also you meet good Adams? I never met a good one, like ever.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799941#Comment_2799941
I havent met a good one either.
Yeah same, all the Adams I see are bad at the game, same with Tapp. Besides that the List is pretty on par for my experience as well.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798163#Comment_2798163
Spreading damage is a 100% waste of time since circle of healing was a thing. Hitting someone and letting them run off accomplishes almost nothing these days. They will be back to full health in under 10 seconds. Especially on weaker killers, you have to hard commit to downs at all but the strongest structures. People bring in medkits more than ever too. It's not uncommon for me to see 3+ medkits in any given lobby.
And Oni is pretty much a free down in his power if you are really good with him. That's why everyone runs IF on him because he is the undisputedly strongest killer in the game in his power. It's worth waiting for. Tier 3 myers is not unless it's tombstone.
And still, my argument isn't that Tier 3 myers isn't better than Ghostface. It's that Ghostface is much better in the first 20-30 seconds of the game which are super critical in the MMR days. With lethal pursuer I have literally had downs in the first 10 seconds of the game. Myers would still be stalking to get out of tier 1 because he probably could not have even reached that location yet.
Ghostface can get his down, get his regression perks rolling, and generally start a snowball significantly earlier than Myers ever can. Even if Myers can snowball or camp much better once he actually has stalked all the way to tier 3.
Yes, spreading damage is a waste of time on every killer right now due to CoH, not just Myers. Every hit and run killer is suffering right now more than usual, that doesn't make them not hit and run killers. They're just forced to play sub optimally right now.
Good survivors spread out against Oni to avoid IF. The strongest killer is Nurse, Oni power or no Oni power, so its nowhere near "undisputed". Blight is basically perma Oni power minus the oneshot but without the wait time, also better than Oni. If he was permanently in his power than maybe he'd be second best, but that's a useless argument to have since he's not.
GF is only better for the first 10 seconds, meanwhile Myers gets 60 seconds on everyone while GF would be on CD for the next single person. Its better to have one person on hook 20 seconds in and the rest exposed for the next 60 (which is 1 entire hook state) and stronger chase/lunge, then to have 1 person on hook 10 seconds in but have no pressure on anyone else for the next 35 and no stealth.
Are the first 20 seconds important? Yes. Are they more important than the first 2 minuets combined? No. Those 10 seconds are more than worth it. As you said "many games of DBD are decided in the first minute or two." Not the first 20 seconds alone.
" significantly earlier than Myers ever can. Even if Myers can snowball or camp much better once he actually has stalked all the way to tier 3."
10 seconds isn't "significantly earlier", and yes Myers can snowball extremely better considering GF is single target. As I said, its more than worth the extra 10 seconds.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798136#Comment_2798136
The way you play Oni is by hitting 1 survivor and farming up your first power use. That's why I always run extra blood orbs on him since you get there 33% faster. He can afford to mess around doing that because he can wipe out the whole team in a single power use sometimes. Myers can only do that if he is playing against a bad survivor team.
And I don't know what you expect me to be doing? Moonwalking around randomly? Because the survivors locations in the corrupt area will be random. You can only really cheese spine chill going up to generators.
And no, M1ing as Myers is a total waste of time. If you can down the survivors fast enough to win as a pure low mobility M1 killer you were at low MMR. You need the 1 shots on both of them, and right off the rip. Nobody is going down to an M1 killer at high MMR in any sort of reasonable timeframe. Especially not on safe maps. All either of them will have is the sneak attack 1 shot. And ghostface has it immedietly. Myers has to work for it.
And Myers can't "Cheese" stalk. That's only a Ghostface thing where you spam the lean stalk / crouch while hiding behind a barrel or something so they can't reveal you even though they clearly know where you are.
So Oni waste a bunch of time gathering orbs, that's also not going to go well. If you wipe out the entire team in one power they were a bad team or really misplayed. But again, not the focus.
Moonwalk to the area, then you look around. If they're relying on SC you'll be too close for them to just run around unless they want to get found. What'd you be doing without moonwalk? Going to the area then looking around. Its the same. One avoids SC one doesn't, the superior choice should be obvious.
"Nobody is going down to an M1 killer at high MMR in any sort of reasonable timeframe."
Yes this is true. Again they are both bad killers no one is saying Myers is good. They both have to work for it but GF has bigger downsides such as CD, free premonition, countered by looking at him, no chase power at all, only 45 seconds vs Myers 60, only on one survivor, losing all stalk progress on a survivor if you hit them outside of power, normal TR when he can't 1 shot. Myers has to work a little bit more, but has a much bigger payoff and less downsides. Myers has to wait 10 more second for his first expose on everyone with perma stealth outside of T3 that can't be turned off and for the rest of the match its 10 seconds to put everyone back in exposed.
"M1ing as Myers is a total waste of time."
This attitude is why you're struggling more than you should be. Its not about downing them, its about making them waste time by healing or risk getting 1 shot later. You don't chase, you get the hit, stalk, or you get the stalk then hit, or you just stalk, but you should not be doing exclusively stalk or exclusively hit for the entire match, thats a bad idea on an already bad killer. If they don't heal, you 1 shot them next time and can save you pop on the next healthy target.
"And Myers can't "Cheese" stalk. That's only a Ghostface thing where you spam the lean stalk / crouch while hiding behind a barrel or something so they can't reveal you even though they clearly know where you are"
You're not cheesing stalk then you're cheesing reveal which Myers doesn't even have to worry about to begin with. Obviously a better situation, not to mention the extra wasted time you're tacking on by doing that.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798022#Comment_2798022
I am a corrupt intervention user. Typically I am finding my first chase out near the corrupted generators. There is no reason to be moonwalking around there. Nobody is going to be on a gen because they are blocked.
Sitting at the unblocked gens waiting for a chase is typically a recipe for failure outside a handful of maps (Sanctum of Wrath, Azarovs, etc) where the survivors are likely to spawn parallel to you.
Two, Myers still needs the full bar to be useful. I literally never M1 on him without tier 3 up. That's relegating yourself to an M1 killer which also is a game throwing move.
Ghostface can have such explosive early games that Myers cannot dream of. Especially with perks like Lethal Pursuer or Discordance; and especially if you know how to cheese the stalking.
The days of Myers hitting tier 3 and going on a rampage are over since MMR. That is Oni's job now. Most high MMR survivors will loop him trivially even in tier 3. I usually run 3 chase perks on him to compensate for how weak he is against strong loops. Coup de grace has gotta be one of his best perks outside tombstones.
"There is no reason to be moonwalking around there."
Spine Chill? So now you're refusing to counter the perk but then complaining about the perk working.
"Sitting at the unblocked gens waiting for a chase"
Yeah that sounds like a bad idea, why are you doing that? Who said you should be doing that?
" I literally never M1 on him without tier 3 up. That's relegating yourself to an M1 killer"
Well thats a bad idea, you're playing Myers wrong. You're playing a game of extremes where you never M1, which is giving the survivors unnecessary free time and building no pressure, or you "relegating yourself to an M1 killer" by not using you power at all, which is obviously bad. You should be somewhere in the middle and using your stealth to get free hits where appropriate. Survivors will typically heal against stealth killers because if they don't they just get 1 hit the next time they get snuck up on. Yeah when you're ignoring half the killers power you're going to have a bad time.
"especially if you know how to cheese the stalking."
and Myers can't cheese stalking because?
Myers doesn't go on a rampage, neither does GF, whose saying they're going on a rampage? Is he weak? Yes. Is he the weakest? No. Is he weaker than GF? Also no.
On a side note, high MMR survivors typically have little trouble with Oni since he's an M1 killer that needs 2-3 separate chases with different survivors to even get his power going, but he's not the point of this discussion.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797842#Comment_2797842
In the early game, you are not going to really have the time to be moonwalking around to avoid spine chill. When you are searching for the first survivor, the odds are overwhelmingly in a spine chill users favor to notice you before you notice them.
It is a much more popular perk than whispers, which I think is a bad choice for both Myers / GF since their stealth already lets them find people for "free" alot of the time. Most spine chill users are boosted apes, but you will hit the users who interpret the information very well and will always be in a position to loop you when you find them.
It's crippling as Myers for your first one or two survivors to already be at a super safe structure where you cannot stalk them easily in tier 1. Ghostface just loses his 1 shot, Myers loses his friggin movespeed if it happens.
I am at an MMR where 3 gens will get done in 2-2.5 minutes with corrupt intervention equipped so even wasting 10-20 seconds having to swap targets because my first survivor was a spine chill users who was preemtively at the shack or something can lose the game.
I think he is better lategame than ghostface, but as I said, many games the gens go by so fast there barely is a lategame. I would rather have the early game power in a game as snowball reliant as DBD.
Moonwalking doesn't slow you down, you have the same amount of time you would not moonwalking.
They can only interpret the information if you give it to them, so don't by looking away.
If they're inside a structure you can literally turn the corner and stalk them since they cant see you coming, at that range we're looking at ~6-7 seconds of stalking. Indoor maps are great for Myers for a reason.
You wouldn't need to swap targets if you did it right the first time. Yes its frustrating to lose for 1 mistake early, but thats 90% of the killers in the game, not Myers exclusive. Same happens with GF except now he's on CD and has normal TR.
He's better 10 seconds after finding someone, I don't think that's "late game".
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2795942#Comment_2795942
You must not read very closely. I almost don't even wanna respond to that but the answer is spine chill, which I literally stated in the same sentence. That's exactly how you can get trapped in tier 1.
Approach the gen backwards? Then you turn around to stalk them. This is a commonly known way to play around the perk and not hard to do.
That's how I play the 2 stalky bois, survivors still get caught on gens by surprise. Also GF has the same problem, but somehow this only prevents Myers because reasons?
Spine chill is not base kit and its easy enough to play around if your conscious of it.
Not taking precautions against the perk when it has an easy counter is on the killer player, so like I said "the survivors aren't good you're just bad".
SC changes little if you keep it in mind, you're still going to get your 10 seconds. Everything I said holds up even with SC in play if the killer plays correctly around it, which isn't asking a lot.
The most that'll happen is bad survivors, which don't look around, might run a little earlier. But if they're bad you're going to win anyways. If they're good they'll notice you anyway. To be a little lenient lets say we're maybe going from 10 seconds to 12, as you just maybe save them some time of spinning their camera and people don't leave the moment SC lights up, they wait a bit. Not character breaking and in no way getting you "trapped in tier 1".
Meanwhile GF gives everyone basekit Premonition with no CD which doesn't care which direction GF is facing.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2796929#Comment_2796929
2 seconds is more then enough time most of the time.
Sure not to hold w to a loop half a map away but most gens are in tiles. And it does not take 2 seconds to reach the pallet or window.
Not to mention that in a lot of maps the low terror radius is completly irrelevent as you can see him coming.
Tier 1 can also be incredibly detrimental. Once you start facing survivors who know how to deny stalk you are looking at 30 seconds to a minute to become a normal killer
If you are close enough to make it, then that pallet is used up for that gen, that's also assuming you don't guess wrong and run into him or he doesn't come in from the pallet side. There's also the fact he can just stalk you and at that close the stalk is very fast. If it was enough time then the main strategy of sneaking up on people to pop T3 on them wouldn't even be used.
As you yourself said, you also just shut down them looping that tile at all, thats pretty significant.
On those maps, you can also see every other killers coming, not Myers exclusive problem. Those same maps where you can see him, he can stalk you and there's nothing to block him.
Once you start stalking from close range like you're supposed to and pathing correctly its not going to take you near 30 seconds. Yeah if you stalk from halfway across the map it might take that long, don't do that. If you're having this problem you're playing Myers wrong.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2796781#Comment_2796781
And what are the numbers and facts in anything you said?
You are talking too much and adding useless info in your posts to appear superior without saying anything to refute my point that Myers can be heard and seen easily because he is not 0 tr.
And yes I am always adding "from my own experience" because I'm not a narcissist who thinks he is always right. That doesn't mean I don't observe others as well.
You are just a person who wants to "win" everything and thinks they are always right and others are wrong. I am done with this "discussion" and responding to you in general on any topic. Have a nice day.
I literally showed with numbers how his stealth is fine.
TR has nothing to do with being seen, no TR doesn't make you invisible. As I've shown with numbers from the game its only 2 seconds of hearing him before you're hit. Since that's not enough time to do anything and you're going to get hit, its stealth since you're surprising your opponent to the point they cant do anything about getting hit in any realistic setting.
"And yes I am always adding "from my own experience" because I'm not a narcissist who thinks he is always right.:" It has nothing to do with being a narcists, you experience just doesn't change how the killer works and neither does mine.
"You are just a person who wants to "win" everything and thinks they are always right and others are wrong."
No, I'm a person who uses the data available and doesn't argue with "in my experience" to act like that makes me right when that's inherently biased. Not once have I said "in my experience" because that's not going to change anything about the point at hand. You're not going to prove anyone wrong with "in my experience". I could easily say "in my experience Myers has the best stealth in the game", that doesn't make it right and now we're just cancelling each other out. That's why you need to use actual facts in your arguments and logic things out and not just yell "I disagree because feelings".
You're just someone who argues with feelings and plays the victim card and resorts to personal attacks once you can't support your argument anymore and get called out for arguing with your feelings and experience solely with no supporting facts. Have a nice day.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2796715#Comment_2796715
Lol. So you really want to keep at it and you are calling me emotional for not wanting to continue fruitless discussion. Ok then.
How is me considering tier 2 (which is not 0 tr) pseudo stealth emotional again? What do I gain from this opinion?
At least I have my own and not basing mine on someone elses while calling everyone who disagrees non factual. What you are doing is more egoistic and emotional than me.
Your opinion =/= fact just because a streamer said so. If I can even be sure you have your own opinions.
Aside form stating his TR isn't literally 0, which I already said by that point, You weren't putting and still aren't putting anything factual into the discussion, everything is "I feel" and "I don't consider" and "in my experience", there's nothing else to call your arguments but anecdotal or emotionally based. As I said before, stealth is not defined by being literally 0. "psuedo stealth" implies its not actually stealth and is missing a lot of components to make it stealthy, but if it acts like stealth, gets results like stealth, gets hits like stealth, its stealth. Again, what is the tangible difference between to the 0 and 16 when they both accomplish the same exact thing?
Demo coming out his portals is psuedostealth because even though his TR is actually 0, he's loud af moving around and announces to everyone "hey I'm coming to a portal near you", the portal is loud, and it only last 3 seconds.
"At least I have my own and not basing mine on someone elses while calling everyone who disagrees non factual.
Your opinion =/= fact just because a streamer said so. If I can even be sure you have your own opinions."
These were my opinions even before that video was ever made. I like how now you're pretending I based my entire argument around a streamer when I literally mentioned them once as a supplementary point aside from my main one and have been makin these arguments on my own using the numbers from Myers kit and the game.
I don't have this opinion because of some streamer, he just happened to agree with me on Myers not being the worst killer. Which is again, not even the main point.
In your own words "You can speak for yourself just fine." Which I have been doing.
"calling everyone who disagrees non factual."
Whose everyone? I only said you were basing your entire endpoint with solely your experience, which is potentially biased since that's your main killer, while not putting any actual ways the killer works in contention nor countering any of my points.
In other words you went "this is my experience and how I feel so I don't care about the facts you brought up not will I counter any of them in turn with any actual numbers or facts, so bye."
Then you're getting upset that I said you're only talking with your feelings thus far, which is what you've been doing.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2796698#Comment_2796698
I don't think I'm biased but whatever. Everyone has one killer they like to play most.
It is just my experience when I played him compared to other stealth killers and I will leave it at that because it is obvious that we disagree on this and our minds won't be changed.
Your experience doesn't change how the killer works. Tier 2 is stealth, 2 seconds or less is not enough time to consider it not stealth nor not get hit. Not including perks like M&A. If you're going to take the attitude of feelings over facts then yeah we'll never agree since you're feelings will always be right on your end regardless.
So yes it'd be best to cut our losses here.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2796223#Comment_2796223
It is to me because he can be seen and heard easily in tier 2 from my experience, unless he is running the 2.
I played him since 2018 and he is my most played killer. I just feel the same in tier 2 as any normal non stealth killer. I don't get surprise hits consistently like I do with pig for example.
In tier 2 he has a 16 meter TR and moves at 4.6, that means you have 3.5 seconds before he's literally inside you, taking out 1 second since he can lunge at you, you don't need to be right on top of him. So that's 2.5 assuming you can hear and react to the TR the exact moment you're in it. Obviously that unreasonable, especially because he has a non-standard TR that's quieter than most and human reaction time is not instant.
So realistically we're looking at ~ 2 seconds to react or less at basekit. Unless you're already on a pallet and drop it on him, assuming you guess which direction he's coming from, you're getting hit. That's nowhere near the same as other M1 killers.
Every M1 and stealth killer can be seen except Wraith past a certain distance, so there's nothing special about Myers on that front.
"I played him since 2018 and he is my most played killer." that sounds like you're set up for bias. Not saying its what's happening but something to consider.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2795972#Comment_2795972
I didn't said hes the worst, I just responded to your tier 2 claim (hard disagree). I won't watch a video from random streamer when I am talking to you btw. You can speak for yourself just fine.
fair, but you didn't respond to my post before that at all about how you're claiming half is basically the same and ect.
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This video explains a lot more than I can in a forum post about Myers not being the "worst in the game:". If you don't want to watch it then don't, but its extra info if you're interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7wp7RrzRfw -
@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2794640#Comment_2794640
It is not stealth if survs are alerted to your presence more easily. You can't compare it to 0 tr. It doesn't make any sense.
And without m&a and dr it is basically the same as any m1 killer with normal tr.
You don't need add ons/perks for pig, wraith and gf to have 0 tr on demand. Myers is only a stealth killer at tier 1. Tier 2 is pseudo stealth and only with m&a and dr like I said.
yes it is, having a 1-2 second warning before you get hit is barely different from no warning and realistically makes no difference. You're still going to get hit because he's going to be right next to you before the TR even starts, let alone you reacting to it, finding which direction he's coming from, and trying to move away. If you hear the TR you're already getting hit. No one knows where you're going because your TR is too small. What difference does it make?
"basically the same as any m1 killer with normal tr."
Ah yes, half is basically the same.
Again, just because its not literally zero doesn't make it not stealth. If I have a 1 meter TR is that no longer stealth just because its not 0? No that's silly. If the survivors have little to no warning and no way to track where I'm going outside of directly looking at me, its stealth.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2794661#Comment_2794661
What? Beyond instakill addons GF is usually way better than Myers. You can spawn in, go expose someone before anyone knows its ghostface, and have your first hook like 15-20 seconds into the game if it goes correctly. His capability to do that instantly makes him better than Myers since many games of DBD are decided in the first minute or two.
Myers always has to screw around for like 30+ seconds stalking first to do anything. And if there are a few spine chills you can easily get trapped in tier 1 by good survivor players for a long time.
if you're getting trapped in tier 1 the survivors aren't good you're just bad, or the map screwed you over real hard. It should only take ~10 seconds of stalking to tier up.
You cant tell me you cant even look at a survivor for 10 seconds.
" 30+ seconds stalking first to do anything."
30 seconds? You can walk pretty close to them and stalk them since you know, no TR or warning. How are you stuck in T1 for 30 seconds of just stalking? Are you stalking them from across the map?
You can spawn in, hit tier 2 before anyone knows its Myers as well. But somehow we're stuck in tier 1??? Meanwhile if survivors just pan their camera around they get an audio warning that GF is within 32 meters, and which direction, even if they don't directly notice him.
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@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2793313#Comment_2793313
-Myer's stealth in Tier 1 is literally a detriment because he barely moves faster than the survivors
-In tier 2, he has "stealth" in the form of a smaller terror radius but literally no power in chase. He can definitely get free hits, but so can Ghostface who can also expose people.
-In tier 3 Myers is indeed very strong but survivors that are spread out aren't going to give you the win when you have it
-Ghostface can 99 stalk people to get free downs on command. Myers can also do this, but the difference is with Ghostface you can down someone, hook them, wait for your ability to recharge, rinse, repeat, so survivors spreading out won't matter all that much with the right info perks. But with Myers you need to wait to have to stalk people. In some cases, that can take a while. I'd prefer a guarantee that I'll actually be able to use the strong part of my killer.
-Spine chill also counters Myers
-Yes, Ghostface has no chase power. But you have the ability to play around that by using stealth and downing 99'd people before they can react. Doing so can give you immense pressure.
-There are ways to counteract being revealed easily by cheesing the reveal mechanic (which I do not condone) or by finding hidden spots to stalk from. There are many of these on every map.
Overall, I do think what I originally said was wrong. Ghostface does have a variety of weaknesses, but I still think that his cooldown is the only one that you can't play around. Also, I'm not saying he's S tier or anything. He's mid C-tier at best imo, and Myers to me is low C tier, so I don't even consider him much weaker.
"-Myer's stealth in Tier 1 is literally a detriment because he barely moves faster than the survivors"
Oh no, I have to stay in tier 1 for a few seconds at the beginning of the match and then it never matters again. It takes ~6-10 seconds to tier up on a survivor, not a whole gen. Not really an issue.
"-In tier 2, he has "stealth" in the form of a smaller terror radius but literally no power in chase. He can definitely get free hits, but so can Ghostface who can also expose people."
yeah so can Myers. GF always has no power in chase, not just sometimes.
"-Ghostface can 99 stalk people to get free downs on command. Myers can also do this, but the difference is with Ghostface you can down someone, hook them, wait for your ability to recharge, rinse, repeat, so survivors spreading out won't matter all that much with the right info perks."
Info perks, yeah like infectious on Myers or other info perks on him as well. You also don't have the step of "wait for it to recharge" on Myers.
"But with Myers you need to wait to have to stalk people. In some cases, that can take a while. I'd prefer a guarantee that I'll actually be able to use the strong part of my killer."
Why do you have to wait to stalk people? Wdym it can take a while? If you mean tiering up, again, it takes ~6-10 seconds of looking at someone. How do you have a guarantee on GF when if your on CD you cant hit someone at all whose been stalked without losing it and if they look at you it turns your power off. Myers has none of these drawbacks so he is the closer to a guarantee in the power department.
"-Yes, Ghostface has no chase power. But you have the ability to play around that by using stealth and downing 99'd people before they can react. Doing so can give you immense pressure."
Myers has stealth all the time outside of T3, Myers can 99 people before they react, Myers has no CD on doing this, how is his pressure worse?
"-There are ways to counteract being revealed easily by cheesing the reveal mechanic (which I do not condone) or by finding hidden spots to stalk from. There are many of these on every map."
Sure, but Myers doesn't have to deal with that at all.
-Spine chill also counters Myers'
Sure, but that was a point on GF not having only one weakness. He a M1 killer with a long cooldown power that gets countered easily and get punished just for hitting people outside his long CD.
His power is pretty much "turn into Myers but with more counters and only single target". They're both bad but Myers is a half filled trashcan and GF is a full trashcan.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2793313#Comment_2793313
Tier 2 is not 0 terror radius even with m&a and dr.
"Just because its not literally 0 doesn't mean its not stealth and in practice they both get you free hits/one shots so there's no real difference."
First paragraph.
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@emodeshort said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2790298#Comment_2790298
ghostface is literally an improved version of myers. stealth on command, power does not end, short stature for a stealth killer etc etc
"Stealth on command" Myers is perma stealth until he hits T3, I'd much rather take that over stealth every 24 seconds that gets broken by someone looking at me. Myers TR means by the time you hear him he's 2-3 steps away, easy free hit/one shot if 99'd. Lets not forget Monitor making it the size of his big toe. Just because its not literally 0 doesn't mean its not stealth and in practice they both get you free hits/one shots so there's no real difference.
"power does not end" By the time Myers runs out of stalk the game should have been over one way or the other, I don't think I'd ever had a game where he's run out of stalk and it mattered. Each survivor has 2 tiers of EW base, that's 8 rank ups per game. What game are we playing where we're EW3 5-6 times and the match isn't over? Its usually over by 3-4. Each EW is 60 seconds base, that's 5-6 minuets in EW3 alone to realistically run it out, not counting the rest of the match, considering you lose 2 by killing people with stalk left. Games don't last long enough for it to run out unless all the survivors are not doing gens, which you win in that case anyway.
Can it be changed? Sure, but its not crippling him like some people like to pretend it does. Realistically both powers don't end. Its like Hillbilly's overheat. Can it end? Sure. Is it going to? Probably not. Doesn't mean it can't/shouldn't be changed just to be clear.
"short" That doesn't stop/help killers like Legion and Pig from being looped by any meaningful degree. Why would it stop GF?
I don't see how GF isn't a downgraded Myers. Long CD, gets punished for hitting partially stalked survivors during that long CD, normal TR during that long CD, no chase buffs, worse add-ons, game announces where he is by looking in his general direction when he's supposed to be stealthy, can't expose everyone to discourage hook saves or body blocks.
@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2790298#Comment_2790298
The only weakness that Ghostface has with his basekit is the cooldown, and even then it's better now than it once was. Addons do help a lot though.
I agree that Legion is very weak without addons, though.
Cooldown, no chase power (Myers gets passive buffs at least), countered by looking at him, game announces his position with the high pitch sound for having your camera in his general direction, normal TR during that long CD, not being able to hit a survivor if they have stalk and you don't have your power up with its long CD unless you want to throw away your progress and chase as an M1 killer with no chase power, no mobility, Spine Chills existence.
"only weakness"
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There needs to be more involved than just kills. The simplest next step would be taking into account hooks as well.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784864#Comment_2784864
Killers objective is to hook and not bleeding out, bleeding out does work but give you much less BP and emblem, basically game encourage you to NOT do it.
it's only there to prevent taking the game hostage, not something you forced to rely on.
Killers objective is to kill, as in their name and why MMR is based on kills. BP and emblems have nothing to do with the win condition of the match.
You'll get more BP (on average) playing Doctor and Legion than most of the killer roster. But their still not high tier killers. Why? Because they cant kill well and BP is not the win condition. Pips and emblems are not the win condition. Killing the survivors is.
You can slug, mori, tombstone, final judgement, whatever, as long as it kills the survivor it's a valid avenue to a win. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they can't do it.
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Controversial for who? No skill Spirit players? Most of the player base wanted her changed.
She's still strong too. Just not as braindead as before.
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Ideally both but I'd rather hooks if I had to pick only 1. 2k camp with Bubba is baby easy, 10 hooks, which would also be a 2k is much harder. In the current system they are the same.
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I quit killer and only play survivor if I get on (which I haven't in a few weeks now). Not because of MMR, I just got tired of the survivors being in a winning position by default and having to mess up out of it for the overwhelming majority of the killer roster due to perks and map design. Like if whether I win or lose is mostly out of my control then its frustrating when I lose and feels hollow when I win.
So it was either play Nurse and Blight every game, only play when I have OP add-ons on a killer (which not all killers have), or switch to survivor and always have access to what makes me strong. I just switched to survivor. Then boons came out, and I'm definitely not going back with those things running around.
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idk what platform you're on, but if its PC some people just leave immediately and won't even see your msg in chat. If your on console some people shut off msgs from non-friends because survivors are much more likely to be toxic and PM you rather than be nice.
So they might not even get or see your msg, I don't think you're doing anything wrong. If anything its nice to get a break from the toxicity and get some actual gratitude for being nice as killer as opposed to the normal BM.
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I know someone who exclusively played Spirit when they played killer, which was fairly often. They completely dropped her, and killer altogether because of 2 things:
- Iron Will buff
- Boons, especially shadow step
In their words "I can't hear them and they have no scratch marks? Then when I lose them they heal super fast? I'll just go play survivor thanks."
I can't say I blame them. If you're not invested into the game to the point you can pinpoint footsteps and such (which they weren't) its just not viable to play her at all right now.
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Play Nurse or Blight. Jump ship and play survivor or another game like a lot of killers have.
That's all you can realistically do.
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"I mean, TeaBags, clicky clicky and other stuff like that still allowing killers to play the game."
Toxic is toxic. Trying to win isn't toxic, these things are."
"we are trying to have some fun and the just dont let us."
this happens on both sides. although in my experience and from what I've seen mostly from survivors. If you play nice you're going to lose more and get gloated over and shamed. If you sweat then they complain about you playing sweaty even if they were doing the same. The community is the problem, and realistically that's not changing.
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It needs to be improved, not removed.
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C tier most of the time. B tier if you get pretty lucky with the box during the match.