Mister_xD
Mister_xD
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i have played this game for over 4.700 hours, yeah i have definitely encountered quite a few of these bully groups.
though i dont destinctly remember any specific one, there is nothing better than them underestimating you and the bullying backfiring on them xD
i think my absolute favourite memory is of one guy who was running old OoO to get my (Deathslinger - RIP :c) attention and i just wiped the floor with him. It got to the point where he hid in a locker for the rest of the game to counter his own Perk from revealing him to me xD
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no they can not.
an actually scary Killer would be one that feels like an incredible threat, one you will want to avoid at any cost - and any Killer we already have that has that going for them are always labled "boring" by the community.
Nurse, Spirit and Deathslinger all had that - two just got nerfed with the single goal of removing exactly that aspect in mind, the third one probaply has the longest nerf history in the whole game.
appearance and sound design wont cut it here.
try playing literally any horror game for a couple thousand hours, i guarantee you you wont be scared by the monster design or behavior anymore.
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two come to mind immediately:
- Hillbilly
- Deathslinger
and a rather personal opinion, but i think Doctor was cooler before the changes.
switching between a Treatment Mode and a Punishment Mode gave him a certain feeling that no one else really had. The Shockblast just doesnt quite feel right to me.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2587806#Comment_2587806
What even counts as "Old Forum days"
Are we talking like, pre-redesign or back when there was a Survivor and Killer sub-forum
i didnt necessarily have any specific timeline in mind, just... people that used to be around a lot and nowadays just arent anymore.
Orion, GoodBoyKaru, FireHazard, etc.
(pretty sure all 3 of the mentioned are still here, just gotten rather inactive over the time - well, if Karus ban is a temporary one)
i would count you as one of the OGs btw.
if that somehow helps you depict a timeline xD
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its not going to fail, because it has no competition.
and it has no competition, because it has way too many licenses that attract people to this game over any of the others for said competition to ever get big enough to properly challenge them.
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Deathslinger, because he has a really cool character design, an incredibly fun to use power that is unique and stands out and i feel like you can never really stop improving with him.
well, at least that would have been my answer prior to the latest patch.
now i guess im not really maining anyone in particular? cuz i aint gonna stick with the BS they did to him, just like Billy (also someone i really enjoyed playing back in the day before they just went ahead and gutted him for no reason) they did a great job at removing everything fun about him.
might go back to Trapper, he did receive some buffs and has some genuinely interesting, strategic and fun gameplay. but then there is MMR and all the sweatlords it gives me... sigh
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@CluelessWanderer said:
I think it's going downhill because so many people have been banned for god knows what. People who were regulars with thousands of posts. It sucks being a part of a forum where one wrong thought and you're gone. Makes me wonder if Reddit is better for talking about DBD.
true.
nowadays i rarely see anyone from the old forum days... most either left on their own accord or got banned for BHVR-knows-what :(
honestly, i'm surprised that i'm still here...
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a system that actively encourages players to lower their score is a faulty system and shouldnt be in the game.
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the Oni one always gets me excited.
the motorcycle part is whatever, but the sound design when Oni comes around is really good IMO.
Deathslinger also has a really cool one, but right now that one rather makes me sad and depressed than hyped up...
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2582724#Comment_2582724
He is being intentionally dense, he continued to boil down the argument until it was straight up "I don't like losing once I'm in a close distance chase."
honestly, if you think about it he has a valid point of critisism there (the "fun" argument i mean) - in the current state of the game at least.
as i explained in the last paragraph of my monster post above, i dont think the issue here is really with Slinger though, but with the way the game is currently structured for Survivors itself, which lead to many thinking Slingers close range oppressiveness was a problematic thing in the first place.
so he isnt really wrong with what he is saying, its just that i think what the Devs did and what he is defending is not the right solution for that problem at all.
EDIT: i shouldnt be writing while tired. forgot a "not" in the last sentence, so i accidentally said the opposite of what i intended to say. whoops.
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I call the devs useless cause they cant add a tree to a map without breaking everything else but the map and i get a message telling me to stop being a meany pants from the mods.
there is a clear difference between giving contructive critisism and feedback on something and just being outright insulting.
and if the mods shut your original post down, then thats most likely because you were not giving constructive critisism / feedback, but were just trying to bash on the Devs for no other reason than to be insulting.
just imagine you spend tons of time working on something, just to have another randome guy come in, tell you what a useless piece of you know what you would be and that you shouldnt be allowed to work on something like this ever again.
and now picture that same person comming in, telling you he isnt entirely happy with your product in a civil manner, while pointing out the flaws they spotted while, maybe, giving you some ideas on how you could try and avoid them in the future.
which one would you rather have?
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he did not deserve to be gutted like that.
not in the slightest.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2580010#Comment_2580010
You said "the counterplay to him was to not engage in chases in the first place."
Maybe I am being overdramatic in my interpretation. But nevertheless, it is inevitable (unless you're playing against a very inexperienced killer) that you are going to get found and chased, at some point. At which point, the counterplay as I said was to just weave around and cross your fingers. When I think of counterplay, I mostly think of it in terms of "here's what your course of action ought to be once the chase has started." That situation is what these nerfs are trying to address.
you are right, being found and chased eventually is pretty much inevitable.
What i was trying to say with my original comment is, that you shouldnt be one of these guys that stay within a short distance towards the killer clicking their flashlight because they wanna loop him all game - he used to absolutely destroy this playstyle, so instead of doing that what you actually want to do is to stay hidden for as long as possible to minimize the amount of chases he can get going, while being efficient on gens. maybe i worded it a bit poorly though, my apologies for that.
and yeah, you are also right when you say that he had essentially no counterplay on a short range towards him, so if you ended up there (which would inevitably be the case at some point), all you can realistically do is to hope he doesnt hit his next shot, meaning at that range you are entirely at his mercy.
However, another thing to sort of keep in mind here is, that another factor of "in chase counterplay" would be to keep your distance towards him. Not to loop him like you would with other Killers, but playing every tile safe, keeping as many LoS blockers inbetween you two as you can and staying as far away from him as possible - because even just at a medium distance, his shots become a lot more managable (meaning he will not be shooting at you at random times anymore, but rather try to hit you when you are in a position you can not dodge in, e.g. vaulting a window or running through a doorway / pallet, which means you can preemtively dodge and watch him shoot the empty doorway, losing him tons of time on the reload) - at a long distance you can outright dodge them like a hatchet. That way you can delay the inevitable long enough to buy your team precious time on gens, meaning in combination with the first strat against him he now takes long to find people, to cross the map and to get any earlygame downs (at some point the tiles will be used up, though the "holding W" strat is still extremely strong against him here, yet somewhat countered by his stealth ability, if you positioned yourself poorly to allow for an ambush).
I mostly think of it in terms of "here's what your course of action ought to be once the chase has started." That situation is what these nerfs are trying to address.
this is correct.
however, this is also what i think is a fundamentally flawed balance goal.
i genuinely do not believe Survivors should have counterplay to everything the Killer does. I know that makes for "fun and interactive" chases, but then we are stuck at a huge problem: this game is going to be incredibly unbalanced, in the Survivors favor (we can not make this a 1v1 game and simultaneously have one player go up against four at the same time)
we can not balance this game around fair 1v1 interactions, this goes straight against the nature of this game, that being a 1v4 asymetrical game, meaning one player picks the power role which is supposed to dominate every 1v1 interaction with the opposing team, forcing those 4 to work together to overcome the "impossible" odds.
This is what old Daddy Slinger did extremely well - while also being incredibly well balanced (unlike a Spirit or Nurse, who also do this but at the same time have insane map pressure, meaning they can very easily take on the 1v4 team as well).
i think this game has one overwhelmingly big issue. That issue isnt any specific Perk, loadout, character, bug, playstyle, etc.
Instead, i think this issue is Survivor objectives.
and not in the way one would expect me to say it (regarding their completion time), thats a completely different topic.
No, i think the main issue this game has is, that the main Survivor objective is just incredibly boring. all you do is hold M1 while sitting still and occasionally hitting space. its boring, its not interactive and i cant blame people for not wanting to do that all the time.
This leads to Survivors, who obviously play this game for fun, looking for something more fun and exciting to do - and the only option that isnt "hold M1 while sitting still next to something" right now is the interaction with the Killer. In other words, many only play this game to be chased - thats whats fun, thats what they want to do. And i think the Devs realized that as well, so to cater to the larger audience they tried improving this aspect of the game for them more and more, to ensure they can get the maximum excitement and fun out of it.
However, this comes with downsides. As mentioned previously, the Killer is supposed to always hold an upper hand in a chase against the Survivors - but for Survivors that would be a boring experience, because they got downed quickly without much say in the matter and then put on a hook, just to return to more boring M1 holding. This lead to the Devs continuously adjusting a Killers ability to 1v1 a Survivor to the point where we are at right now: with a good 95% of the Killers being literally unplayable in high MMR gameplay, because Survivors have so many options to dodge and evade their attacks and powers, that downing one takes so long that the game is essentially over after that one hook, meaning if you want to kill someone you have to hardcore focus them out of the game. The Killer is at an overwhelming disatvantage from the very start, simply because he cant win a fair and balanced 1v1 against 4 people at the same time.
this leads to chases taking up way too much time, time that the other 3 players are gonna spend on their boring objective, meaning to the Killer it feels like before they got any real chance to do anything, 3 gens pop and the game is over.
There is more to this, but i think this post is long enough already - i hope i made my point clear.
long story short, the root of all of this is a boring Survivor objective.
So instead of continuing this needless nerfing of Killer 1v1 abilities, instead what the Devs should be working on is new, much more enjoyable and interactive Survivor objectives to replace gens with, so they no longer rely on Killers chasing them to feel any sort of enjoyment - in fact, it would even be beneficial to this game if being chased by the Killer was the less enjoyable interaction, so Survivors actually want to do what they are supposed to, that being trying to avoid any unnecessary Killer contact and seeing the Killer as an obstacle that is standing in their way which they will need to overcome.
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@ion_eyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2580161#Comment_2580161
There is a completely separate forum board for that. This is a "General Discussion" forum.
"Feedback" is related to balancing discussions on specific topics, such as an specific individual Killers nerf / buff.
"General Discussions" is related to many things at once, a lot of which are still aiming to give feedback to the Devs over other areas of the game, such as the NFT controversy that is currently going on.
also a lot of people just post everything in "General Discussions", as thats just the place where 90% of the forum users are at, so if you wanna get feedback / reactions to your posts, "Feedback" isnt gonna be a good choice for you (which is why the mods are so busy moving tons of posts over to there, because everyone posts them in the wrong forum section).
also, like @Seraphor said, people love to focus on the negative things in life.
that is a phenomenon not at all exclusive to this forum, but its actually a very common thing - just look at the News for example, which are usually heavily dominated by negative news stories, with a positive story being a rather rare occurance.
us humans are just wired to take positive things for granted after a short while, meaning the better we have it, the more we start focussing on smaller issues, treating them as worse than they actually are and complaining about them.
i dont know why our brain works like that, but it does. pretty stupid if you ask me, but nothing we can do about that, sadly.
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@Rydog said:
the counterplay to him was to not engage in chases in the first place, be stealthy and do gens efficiently.
"The counterplay is to avoid engaging or being seen at all by the killer all game" is not a realistic strategy. I'm confident you understand this about Dead By Daylight.
"The counterplay is to avoid engaging or being seen at all by the killer all game"
i didnt say that though.
i said you should avoid chases as much as possible, meaning you shouldnt unnecessarily harass the Killer when they got nothing to do (as you would do with Killers like Trapper or Hag), to play stealthy so his search times are as long as possible and be efficient on gens, because he cant cover the map quickly to apply pressure.
i never said anything ridiculous like "just never get spotted", those are your words, not mine.
EDIT: had "chases" twice in the first sentence, idk why. so i removed one.
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the introduction of an MMR system.
oh wait...
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been a while since my last bait threat...
anyway, how are you all doing today?
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well, at least im still on the Forum. currently taking my probaply longest break from this game ever since they introduced MMR with no end of that in sight as of yet.
still, the memory of a 4.6 m/s Nurse with 3 blinks at her disposal (EDIT: basekit. you could get up to 5 with Add Ons) is one i have engraved in my mind forever xD
the game balance back then was... questionable - but that was okay, because we all sucked at the game anyway.
also, as for the Legacy question: i think a lot of the old Legacy users got struck by the same fate i did, that being the loss of progress bug that was around sometime in 2017 - 2018. and since the Devs outright refuse to give back the lost legacy, well, you cant wear what you no longer have.
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@Rydog said:
He was completely miserable to play against. He could shoot you 100% outside of TR, and counterplay against him was "weave randomly back and forth and hope for the best." Yeah man, this needed to be nerfed because going against him is one of the most frustrating things in the entire game.
He could shoot you 100% outside of TR
yeah and for that to happen the Survivors had to allow it.
there are a huge amount of measures you, as a Survivor, were able to take against this - this goes from positioning yourself smartly all the way to just having some gamesense. If you, as a Survivor, got sniped from outside of his TR, then that was entirely on you.
You could have positioned yourself smarter, could have heard the bell ring and dodge to the side the second you hear a gunshot in the distance (you got enough time for that on that range) or you could have just opened your eyes and spot the super tall guy pointing his gun right at you in the distance.
not to mention the Deathslinger had to dedicate their entire perk build around that one gimmick.
and counterplay against him was "weave randomly back and forth and hope for the best."
no it was not.
the counterplay to him was to not engage in chases in the first place, be stealthy and do gens efficiently.
you may not believe me here, but this game is actually a lot more than just the 1v1 chase - in which he was quite oppressive, that is true, but that was balanced out perfectly by the fact that he was at the same time the worst Killer at applying map pressure in the entire game.
this isnt a case of Spirit or Nurse where the Killers are not only oppressive af in chases, but also incredibly good at applying pressure to everyone else.
He was one of the most well balanced Killers in this game.
He absolutely did NOT deserve those nerfs, except for maybe the one that gives him an attack cooldown after dropping his ADS (so he wouldnt get any more cheap zoning).
the only "issue" this Killer had was, that he was not "fun" for Survivors - which, in my humble opinion, is a horrible balancing factor, as the latest chapter has proven incredibly well. because "fun" and actual game balance are two VERY different things, especially considering this is a 1v4 game, so its literally impossible for you to balance around 1v1 interactions (or else we are where we are now, with Killer being so miserably unfun that many people, like me, straight up quit).
you are not going to want to hear this, but Killers are SUPPOSED to be oppressive in any 1v1 interaction, thats the whole point of having an asymetrical 1v4 based game. The problem at hand here was not Slinger being "too oppressive", the issue at hand here is a vast majority of the others not being oppressive enough - which then ties into another big issue, being Survivor objectives being miserably boring.
So instead of continuously nerfing Killers to make the only exciting part of the Survivor gameplay (being the 1v1 interaction with the Killer atm) "equally fair for both sides", what the Devs should be doing here is reworking Survivors objectives from the ground up, so they have more fun and interactive things to do, meaning there no longer is an issue with Killers being oppressive in chases.
instead right now they are wasting precious time and ressources on unneeded nerfs such as Slinger and Hillbilly (who, fun fact, got gutted for the exact same reason - not because he was "too strong", but because it was "unfun" that he could launch chainsaw attack after chainsaw attack at you when you were out in the open, hence the overheat was born to limit that and "reward good gameplay by the Survivor" alias dodgeing the hits), turning the game more and more into a miserable experience for the supposed "power role", because Killers have essentially no power over anything in the trials anymore, unless they facecamp a hook as Bubba.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2572321#Comment_2572321
You wanna know the best part? It got worse than PTB :D
- Add-on - Wanted Poster: Decreased movement speed while aiming to 2.5% (was 10%)
- Add-on - Jaw Smasher: Decreased movement speed while aiming to 1% (was 5%)
Oh my, dead killer with useless add-ons, perfect combo.
yeah i was fully expecting that one to be a thing ever since i saw the "Deathslinger actually got buffed!" threat a while ago showcasing those (i'm pretty sure i even called it), so luckily i never got my hopes up in the first place.
best part is, i highly doubt this will be the end of it.
The Devs balancing goal seems to be a "fun, balanced and interactive" 1v1 scenario for both sides to participate in - too bad this isnt a 1v1 game, so any such balance goal is guaranteed to make the life of the supposed "power role" (that has to go up against 4 people at the same time) miserable.
there are so many killer mechanics that, while technically necessary for a 1v4 game, are going to fall victim to this philosophy, because of the "lack of counterplay from the survivor side".
(e.g. Nurse, Myers 99%ing his Tier 3 / GF 99%ing the mark on someone, Beartraps, ...)
im at a point where i honestly think the Devs just straight up dont want the Killer to ever have the upper hand, because that would be "unfun" for the Survivors - hence all the nerfs on killers with strong chase abilities that allowed them to be the leading role of a chase except for the Survivor.
that balance goal might work in mid to low ranks where Survivors make a lot of mistakes for the Killer to punish, but high rank is, thanks to this, incredibly miserable for Killers. ESPECIALLY with all those "fun close call evading disaster" perks such as Dead Hard that essentially just entirely negate one of the very few mistakes those Survivors will do.
but enough ranting.
i quit this game months ago and this update will certainly not be bringing me back.
and if they keep trying to balance this asymetrical 1v4 game around 1v1 interactions, i dont see me comming back any time soon either.
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lmao i even called that.
it would be funny if it wasnt so sad.
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did the PTB changes go through?
if so, then no.
those changes managed to locate and remove everything fun about him.
honestly if i, as a Deathslinger main, was tasked with making him really unfun to play as, i wouldnt have been able to do a better job.
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@Exult said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2558696#Comment_2558696
CoH is strong but it's probably not going to be that strong once it goes live. You're roaming around the map defending gens and chasing survivors. You're bound to hear the totem and make note of it at least. I don't think any killer is actually going to navigate around the map specifically for the boon totem unless they already know where it is.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2558701#Comment_2558701
Medkits are nice to have of course, but this isn't new. It's only now for some reason that people think it's too strong. I'm of the mind that medkits are typically the best thing to bring since you're nigh guaranteed to get something out of it. That doesn't make them so strong and oppressive to killers that they would be nerfed though, wouldn't you agree?
... but the whole point i was making was that Survivors will be placing it in an area the Killer does NOT go to, due to the gens there already being finished?
currently Killers will simply drop chase when someone leads them there, as any such area is a huge time waste if they do commit to the chase. With CoH that will literally no longer be possible, as the Survivors will be able to heal up and return to the contested areas much quicker than the Killer could injure and push them away from them, creating a literal lose - lose situation for Killers.
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i disagree with a lot of peoples definition of the term "genrush".
most think they got genrushed when they lose gens quickly, but i dont think thats a good way to see it. After all, its very much possible that the fault for this is with the Killer due to them not applying good map pressure.
i think you can only really call a genrush, when the Survivors make it obvious that they prioritize gens over everything else in the trial, such as totems, chests, healing or just general altruism - the cherry on top being them bringing a loadout focussed on fixing gens as quickly as they can.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2558675#Comment_2558675
It's not a free unlimited medkit though. The first heal off of Circle Of Healing is always 30 seconds. If the Killer doesn't break the very loud boon totem, you still have all that travel time it takes to get to the Circle of Healing's AOE for a second heal.
If the Killer breaks Circle of Healing, it's pretty much a Self-Care that you have to travel to.
If the Killer breaks Circle of Healing
that would require the Killer to go out of their way to start a boon totem hunt, meaning they'd have to drop all gen defense and chases for a certain amount of time just to temporarily get rid of this perk, which has most likely been placed in an area of the map where no gens are left and the Killer really does not want to be in.
So even if the Killer breaks it, this is ultimately still in the Survivors favor.
you still have all that travel time it takes to get to the Circle of Healing's AOE for a second heal
the travel time Survivors have is also not a bad thing, all you have to do is to beeline the, for the Killer, "dead" (so no gens to defend) area of the map in a chase, which is something you want to do anyway.
Now the Killer has to either commit to a chase that is very unfavourable for them and might very well cost them the game (in addition to hunting down the totem afterwards, so even more of a time loss), or drop chase, have you heal yourself up in no time and returning to the gens very quickly, which would result in an overall time loss on time spend to injure VS time spend to heal.
those downsides get outweight quite heavily by the upsides the Perk provides, given the Survivors play smart ofc.
and best of all, this strategy is one every Survivor in the trial can make use of, even if just one of them brought the Perk.
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Nurse is still a very viable option.
Spirit right now also remains a viable option (at least until the dusty footsteps make it in).
the main issue at hand is, that an actually balanced 1v4 Killer is automatically going to be considered "unfun", because they are going to be oppressive in chases, which the Survivor community absolutely does not want (understandably so, given chases are the only interaction you have with the killer and everything else is just holding down a button).
its also quite appearant that the Devs value "fun" (i put this in quotation marks, because the concept of fun is entirely subjective and is going to vary from person to person) over an actually well balanced game, therefore they will do their best to step away from any oppressive chase Killers (as they have done with Spirit and Deathslinger in the latest PTB), meaning both Spirit and Nurse are very likely to receive more nerfs in the future.
this however leads us to some other issues:
1) this game is not built to be a balanced and fun 1v1 centered game. the whole concept of an asymetrical 1v4 game is, that the one player that goes up against a team is always going to have the upper hand in any 1v1 engagement (like Spirit, Nurse and old Deathslinger did). Currently however, Killer has been reduced to nothing more than the reactive role to what the Survivors are doing. The Killer is not the one dictating the games length nor are they the one dictating chases (you will only get a hit on a Survivor if they screw up during their loops (at least if you want said hit to happen before the 5th gen popped)), meaning they are very clearly not the power role they should be.
2) it makes absolutely no sense to push a competetive matchmaking system on a game where clearly the focus is not on it actually being balanced. that will just make high level play unbearable for Killers.
and those problems lead us to one more, overall problem:
The overall Killer experience is going to suffer.
a game where everything seems to be stacked against you (you are outnumbered, have no say in the games length and are a purely reactive role) and where you feel powerless the entire time just is not a fun experience for many, including me.
and i can only speak for myself here, but i will stay on a break from this game until something has been done about the miserable Killer experience we currently have.
whether that being the games length being tremendously increased to match all the 1v1 options survivors have (so they actually run out of ressources at some point) or Killers being made more oppressive in chases again, i dont necessarily care. But something has to happen.
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every individual Killer is supposed to be their own gamemode.
too bad you can hardcounter like 95% of them using the exact same strategy - and the few that didnt work on just got changed to be "more in line with the others".
yay
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@Bluebird said:
Because unlike Hex Perks, Survivors can not only place where the totems are, and they can place them indefinitely. 24 seconds for a zone where you get a free medkit, no scratchmarks, no aura reveal, and double healing is worth it in the long run, especially if the Killer can't find the totem.
and in addition to that, unlike the Survivors, the Killer does not have the time to just run around and look for totems.
the Killer is the one under constant high time pressure, meaning they cant just go out of their way specifically for those totems - Survivors on the other hand are the ones dictating the speed of the game, meaning that if they go out of their way to hunt down totems, that is not going to hurt them nearly as much as it does with Killers and just slightly delay the game by a few seconds.
not to mention that Survivors share that same objective over a 4 man team, meaning that if one person goes to look for totems, the other 3 will still be progressing their objective, once again this does not apply to Killer. If you go on a totem hunt as Killer, your objective will not progress in the slightest.
and on top of all of that, as you mentioned yourself, Survivors get to place their Boons indefinitely. This means that a Killer just taking some time out of their busy schedule to hunt down Boons isnt actually going to get rid of them, it merely delays their effect to the next time Survivors bless a totem - this does not apply to Hexes, so Survivors only ever need to take time out of their schedule once to get rid of them, while the Killer is going to have to repeatedly do that.
so yeah, OP comparing Hexes to Boons is kind of ridiculous, given that they are so different to one another. Thats like comparing apples to pears, it doesnt work.
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way ahead of you there, i quit 2 month ago!
lets see how long this break is gonna last - i doubt ill be back soon though, unless they implement some huge QoL updates that make playing killer bearable again. its just incredibly unfun at the moment.
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i dont think the PTB Spirit is in much of a worse state than she was before.
however, there is also the thing with her footsteps creating dust clouds while phasing - this one essentially gives any aware Survivor a dead giveaway to her location, which pretty much defeats the whole point of her phase ability in the first place.
IF that change makes it in as well, THEN i will agree with people that they gutted her - right now though i think she is still pretty fine.
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2534720#Comment_2534720
So you used it and didn't use it. Slinger players have the same choice. If they want a TR change then M&A is there if not then they can just not use it just like you chose to not use Stridor when Stridor was benefitial for Spirit. The point is there's a solution to the TR change should players feel like they need that solution.
To me DS having smaller TR and being a Ranged killer was a bit too much compared to Stealth killers who all have natural higher TR, except Tier 1 and Tier2 Myers but Tier 1 and Tier 2 Myers are drastically inferior to Slinger. So Slinger's TR was 24 meters right? but his max range was 18 meters. That's a 6 meter difference, meaning his TR music at 6 meters is the very begining of the TR music so it was hard for survivors to understand where he'd be coming from.
Do you think it's actually fair that a ranged killer can shoot you from 18 meters and only needs to step in 6 meters into TR? That's better than all stealth killers can do. Stealth killers need to be right there in your ass to hit you while Slinger can stay relatively stealthy and hit you! To me that's bonkers. The TR change isn't that bad in terms of Balancing killers in their own Bubble.
Now with the changes he has 32 meter TR - 18 from max range that's 14 meters, he needs to be 14 meters into TR to be able to get a shot. That's still Advantageous and some survivors will still missjudge this and get caught. It will be hard to do? Absolutly but you can make it easier with M&A if you want to.
yeah i feel like you are forgetting quite a lot here, so let me add some things:
1) Survivors did have a TR on him in your scenario, so they should, knowing its a Deathslinger, be on high alert. He could counteract this by running Monitor & Abuse, which drops his TR down to 16m outside of chases, but that costs him a Perk slot to do - and if you really want to make a use out of that you also needed to equip something that let you track people without needing direct LoS (more on that in a bit), so A Nurses Calling was pretty much standart as well - so that strategy requires you to spend 50% of your available Perk slots for it.
but just for the benefit of the doubt, lets look at this strat in its strongest, so he is running M&A and Nurses and therefore gets a 2m window on people being in range & outside his TR in all the next points.
2) Survivors receive a loud warning noise whenever Caleb is aiming at them, doesnt matter whether they are in his TR or not.
3) Caleb requires direct LoS towards the Survivors in order to be able to shoot them, therefore the Survivors have a direct LoS on him as well.
4) Caleb needs to be able to shoot from a position that allows him to reel the Survivor in. on a distance like that (16m - 18m), that means his chain is essentially never allowed to collide with anything, otherwise it breaks and he gets nothing. This means he needs to shoot the Survivor from a location that doesnt have a lot of cover for him to hide behind, as otherwise said cover would then be used by the Survivor to break the chain with.
5) this scenario in it self is an extremely rare one, given that Caleb has no indication on where his TR ends or where his max range is reached, so actively making use out of that 2m window is a very unrealistic thing to expect. in a vast majority of his ambushes, the Survivors were most likely somewhere at the edge of his TR.
6) shots taken from that distance are entirely dodgeable by Survivors. if you ever score a "sharpshooter" score event with him, that is because the Survivor failed to dodge the shot (you get said score event any time you hit someone 15m - 18m away from you)
so the only ones that should realistically be caught using this strat would be those who werent paying attention to their surroundings properly and didnt position themselves in a smart position, but rather decided to heal somewhere out in the open where Caleb has multiple angles to ambush them from. And i dont really see why we should punish the Killer for that, after all its the Survivors own fault they got hit.
this is actually an excellent example for nerfing something not because it was too strong or unfair, but because lesser skilled players couldnt properly handle it.
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as a Slinger main, here's my thoughts on the 3 proposed changes:
1) "You can no longer shoot until you have fully aimed down sights" - this one depends entirely on how long it takes him to fully aim down sights. this one can go from being barely noticable to making him essentially worthless of a character.
2) "Increased the delay after cancelling your shot before you can start a Basic Attack" - i'm absolutely fine with this one. in fact, i proposed it as a change myself a couple of times. if you're a good slinger, you wont be aiming down sights repeatedly without shooting anyway, so it wont be much of a problem.
3) 32m TR - this one i really dont like. one of Slingers main appeals always has been his stealthy approach that allowed him to get closer and potentially even ambush unsuspecting targets. ive seen some complaints about it being "unfair" that he can shoot you outside of his TR, but heres the thing: 1) this requires a perk to do; 2) this requires him to be at a range towards you at which it is absolutely manageable to dodge an incomming projectile; 3) this required him to have a direct LoS towards you and preferably shooting you from a spot where there wasnt much cover in the first place, due to him having to reel you in afterwards. the only way you should realistically get yourself sniped from a Slinger without being in his TR would be by the player not paying attention to the trial around them.
now here's the problem:
Slinger had exactly two things going for him that made him stand out as a ranged killer and able to stand up to Huntress in strength (her being A-Tier and him being high B-Tier):
1) his ability to quickscope players in loops, meaning he was a better close range looper than Huntress - now nerfed, maybe even removed entirely
2) his ability to stealthily sneak up and ambush unsuspecting targets - now entirely removed
so... why would i pick him over Huntress again?
they legit just took away everything that made slinger unique and strong and gave him what? slightly faster movementspeed (still significantly slower than a running survivor tho) while being scoped in? cool cause thats exactly what you want to be doing all the time with him - being scoped in.
;-;
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the only thing i would like Doc to get in his current state would be to hahve the change reverted that allows people to snap back into tier 1 madness.
that one was just a huge shadownerf to his previously best add on series (the restrained series) and i really dont like it.
also, while we're at it, reintroduce the longer charging time for electrodes. i hate how the current ones dont come with a downside whatsoever, especially since they make his shock therapy super easy to hit. i always felt like that was a fair downside to have.
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i rather think the issue is that the Devs are trying to balance killers for 1v1 scenarios, because that is what survivors will define as the "fun part of DbD" (which i will agree with).
however, this is an asymetrical game. if we make it so in an engagement both sides find the encounter to be a "fair and fun one" (so one where the only way of winning is outplaying your opponent), then the side that is supposed to be the power role (Killer) is going to lose the overall game, simply because they cant take on 4 equally as strong opponents.
Killers are always supposed to have an upper hand on any engagement you take with Survivors. Yet a vast majority of the current Killers dont have that - in fact, Killer is a purely reactive role to what the Survivor does.
Slinger was one of the very few Killers who didnt have that problem (and yes, it is a problem), so their change away from that is actually a lot less healthy than you would think, unless of course you only look at the games balance from the Survivors (so the 1v1) perspective.
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i wouldnt.
he is meant to be an oppressive 1v1 killer who drastically lacks in the 1v4 aspect.
but since his 1v1 is taking a huge hit now anyway, idk just let him teleport to gens that are around 80%?
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the point that makes or breakes these changes is how long exactly you will need to be scoped in before you can shoot.
cause lets face it, the only things that made him good were his ability to quickly ambush unsuspecting targets (now gone) and the ability to quickscope someone out of a loop (at the very least reduced in its efficiency, potentially gona as well).
if his quickscope takes too much of a hit, there is legitimally no reason to pick him over Huntress or Trickster anymore.
he didnt deserve any of this :c poor Caleb...
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well, we havent seen part 2 of it yet (at least i havent, maybe i just missed it), but from what ive seen in part 1 its pretty good.
though ive been on a break from DbD for roughly 2 month now and i dunno if thats gonna be enough to get me back into it.
MAYBE if part 2 is equally great as part 1 was there is a real chance of that happening.
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gotta use the crutches as long as they are available.
its a sad, but very common, mindset.
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if people are being overly insulting / toxic in the end chat, make sure to report them ingame (you can do so by pressing the button that pops up behind their name on the score board if you hover over it, then select the reason you want to report them and, if needed, add a short description)
This is going to save the chatlog and send an automatic report ticket to the support team, which, should the member looking at it think this is a fit punishment, is going to result in a ban for the player.
Should someone get banned due to your report, please be aware that you will not be receiving any notification of this happening. However, i can assure you it works, as i do have a friend who received a ban due to their ingame chat behavior.
should you be on console and / or the people contacting you over DbD are being overly insulting / toxic to you in any third party chat software (e.g. steam comments), BHVR can and will not be taking action. in such a case, contact the respective support teams of those software providers.
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yeah its pretty hilarious, especially since, no matter which side gets the nerf, the response is always the exact same:
Survivors get nerfed: "omg the devs are so killer sided, they dont care about the other part of their community at all! this game is literally becomming unplayable for survivor without [insert nerfed crutch here]. everyone from your survivor community is going to quit this game because of this, so have fun with your dead game after the next patch"
Killers get nerfed: "omg the devs are so survivor sided, they dont care about the other part of their community at all! this game is literally becomming unplayable for killer without [insert nerfed crutch here]. everyone from your killer community is going to quit this game because of this, so have fun with your dead game after the next patch"
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at this point i feel like there are more map variations of Mothers Dwelling than all of the MacMillain and Autohaven maps combined.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2492341#Comment_2492341
So close and yet so far.
and then he got out first try and jumped in before the killer could walk around the bench (:
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@Superyoshiegg said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0T6TA68Z93TE/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GIUIJUQNI7PM/image.png
Indeed.
They did actually fix her beachball sized hitboxes at one point and made it more accurate to the hatchet's model, but all the 3000+ hour Huntress sweatlords suddenly found it way more difficult to hit anything, and their complaining got the fix promptly reverted.
but all the 3000+ hour Huntress sweatlords suddenly found it way more difficult to hit anything, and their complaining got the fix promptly reverted
yeah, you have no idea how the hitboxes in this game work at all, do you?
allow me to educate you on why that is not only a horrendously wrong statement, but also on why Huntress hitboxes are actually fine the way they are:
The Survivors hitbox is not actually matching their playmodel or animations, instead its a large, pill shaped object emerging from between their feet. This pill never changes (unlike animations / playmodels do) and is always the exact same on every Survivor.
now, due to it not actually accurately depicting the Survivors playmodel (e.g. the arms are sticking out + certain animations such as injured running, sabotaging or fast vaulting have the Survivor bend in ways not represented by the hitbox), the Huntress Hatchet hitboxes need to make up for all of these moments to allow her shots to actually hit you after visually colliding with your body during these animations.
If the Huntress Hatchet hitboxes were to be accurate to their playmodel, as was the case in that test a while ago, the Hatchet hitboxes would be incapable of colliding with the Survivors hitboxes, even though they visually hit the playmodel. This lead to a large number of shots during that time physically phasing straight through a survivor, even though they should have very clearly hit them.
that is why the hatchet hitbox is ball shaped, to allow a Hatchet to collide with a Survivors hitbox, even if they are in an animation where their body is bend away from it (e.g. injured running - the forward bending of the Survivors body is not represented by their hitbox at all).
so, here is the reason as to why the shot in your screenshots looks so weird:
the Survivors hitbox is not actually where the head is, its actually going straight up from their behind. thats the desync of hitboxes and animations i talked about, meaning your hitbox was actually a lot closer to the Hatchet than you would think it is purely based on that pic.
in addition to that, the Huntress hit you around the place your head would have been, had you been running in the other direction - meaning the hitbox of her Hatchet collided with the edge of your hitbox. So had you been facing the other way, the hit would have looked perfectly fine, but since you didnt it looks off - thats a necessary evil though, as, as stated above, without this any hits from the front would be made impossible as well.
then add some latency on top of that, meaning that you look like you are a few steps further in the direction you were running on your screen than you actually were and you got the recipe to the bad looking hit that downed you.
is there a fix to this?
yes.
in order for the hatchet hitboxes to be "fixed" so they accurately depict the thrown hatchet, we would have to "fix" the Survivor hitboxes first, so they too accurately depict the Survivors playmodel & animations.
This however does come with a couple of downsides:
1) female Survivors would have an natural advantage over male ones, due to their body being slimmer and the hitboxes therefore being smaller.
2) due to the now present arm hitboxes, as well as the constantly changing hitbox based on your animation, it would become significantly harder for you to loop around objects now, as not only your collision would drastically change uppon being hit once, but thanks to your arms you now would also get stuck a lot more than before. In addition to that, again thanks to your now existing arms, you would be unable to hug objects nearly as tight as you currently can, so you would be generally incapable of looping around structures as much as you currently can.
so, would you rather have accurate huntress hitboxes, but therefore no longer being capable of looping effectively and generally having to relearn looping from scratch (against every Killer i might add), or would you rather have an occasional bad looking hit on one of the Killers?
long story short, having an occasional BS hit from Huntress is by far the lesser evil to be had here.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2514578#Comment_2514578
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2514609#Comment_2514609
Carry all traps is op, but a wrong placement will make you permanently M1 killer, since survivors already know where traps are and disarm.
Feel like the addon allow you to carry all traps (but still start with 2). Would be much better than this.
Feel like the addon allow you to carry all traps (but still start with 2). Would be much better than this.
i feel like that should be basekit.
it would permanently get rid of these annoying scenarios where you want to place a trap down in a slightly different spot than before (so the trap deadzone covers it), but cant do that because you already carry 2, so you have to set one of the ones you hold in hand, pick up the one you want to move, place it down and then repick up the first one again.
it would just make it easier to move your trap setup around, thats not something i'd want to see locked behind being an add on.
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and dont forget about the general Trap amount increase!
they just made him have 8 Bear Traps by default, when previously he was stuck with a random number between 5 and 7.
only thing i feel like is missing from this is the ability to carry all traps at once (so you're never actually "full" on traps).
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quite easy, actually.
make it so injured moaning =/= the survivors breath.
meaning that an injured Survivor is going to be doing both (instead of having the normal breathing replaced with the injured moans, as is currently the case), while Iron Will is only going to reduce the moans.
we can fix the Perk without actually touching the Perk.
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out in the open or in the hands of an inexperienced player? probaply the weakest exhaustion perk out there.
inside a looping setup in the hands of an experienced player? easily the strongest exhaustion perk out there.
overall, i dont think a perk that just hands you a free 3rd healthstate with no downsides or special requirements attached to it whatsoever should exist.
additionally, it feels incredibly cheap to get "outplayed" by this perk as a killer. thats about as enjoyable as the Killer having a button to completely negate anything the Survivor has and just hits them anyway. you know, not because the Killer played specifically well, flawless or even just a bit better than you, but because they just happened to equip this perk and pressed a button on their keyboard.
its about the same as a Nurse just blinking on top of you, hitting you. there is nothing you could have done about it, its entirely in the hands of your opponent - and that just screams bad gamedesign to me.
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seeing Trapper actually getting some love (and desperately needed buffs) actually managed to spark some joy in my, currently pretty darn burnt out, DbD heart.
Trapper now having access to 8 traps every game without having to bring an add on for it is great, being able to start out with two traps at once is amazing (i hope he will be able to pick up more than that as well, so he wont ever be "full" on Traps again) and the Add On pass, while mostly unknown, also looks pretty decent from the two revealed ones.
only thing i dislike is the downside of Trapper Sack. Starting with all 8 traps is neat, but being entirely incapable of moving your setup around is actually a very bad downside to have.
the spirit nerf was to be expected tbh.
sucks if you're a "competetive high level DbD player" (yuck), but i 100% understand where they are comming from with this.
i'm fully expecting Nurse to get hit in a similar fashion as well at some point.
so yeah, lets hope they got some plans on making the high level DbD experience more enjoyable for Killer, cause right now thats pretty darn miserable. and they did just nerf 50% of the viable killers up there.
the add on description updates are really cool, the perk buffs manage to make a lot of those perks more viable than they are now. those are pretty much always a good thing to see.
and finally the kill switch, its a pretty good behind the scenes QoL update i think. that way we dont have to stick around with broken (as in not functioning properly) stuff as long as we do now, which is always a good thing.
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the only thing Killers have that would come close to Dead Hards effect of "press a button to immediately outplay your opponent" is probaply the Nurse.
but in case of popularity, for me, that would be Pop.
gens just get done way too quickly without slowdown Perks - though the more ive played with MMR on, the more i cater towards everyones favourite Ruin Undying / Ruin Pop combo, because pop alone isnt really enough a lot of the time (as in, i dont have the time to actually go and kick the gens).
a close second place would go to Discordance.