MadMoeZel
MadMoeZel
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- MadMoeZel
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so let me get this straight, they remove a system of matchmaking that rewards active players who clean their maps up every 2-3 hours. then you suggest they impliment a system that makes how many raids you get directly related to how much time you spend in the game raiding, when building takes hours and raids take minutes? do you have to successfully get out with genmat for that raid to count? or can i just use the new no penalty for leaving system to go in and quit to get my base raided more?
is it based on quantity of raids? if so that leads to normal spamming, is it based of difficulty? maybe that could get more brutal activity POSSIBLY but i doubt it.
i think the players who are online at a given time should have priority for raids received.
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@Chordyceps said:
If your raiders are leaving after your tombs, don't just give them tombs to them. Integrate it into your base, make them work for it.
they removed the penalty for leaving, i'm literally going into maps, breaking tombs and leaving, no exposed tombs, i leave. either way, builder gets nothing and i get loot. ez win. you block the tomb with holo cube, put it in your base? good for you, don't care, moving on. that is what the game is going to become for everyone and i'm getting a head start and profiting off this idiotic setup. you should do the same.
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Side note, since rank means literally nothing now, i'm just going into all large maps, taking tombs and leaving with free loot, no deaths, no rank loss, free resources. screw the builder since that seems to be the way the game wants us to play.
geting about 80-120 synthite and parts per run of 1 minute with 0 deaths easy low risk material farm. have fun everyone since free stuff is all anyone care about now.
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@UmbrellaWeapon said:
By having it in and telling people you can get these rewards for these ranks will no doubt make the player use any means necessary to keep the rank and it never go down.
makes players who care about those rewards exit application ( rage quit) , while attempting Dangerous / Brutal Bases… while players who bases were raided may or may not care about rank , deprived of anything.. both sides are mad. The raider may not suffer any negative impacts upon amount of deaths is just as equally bad as getting nothing considering the time spent.
the corrosive cube / piston exploit is fixed, that’s the first step, I’m glad you fixed.
perhaps any content you come out with, should be rewarded to players as a reward for successful attempts on Brutals / champion brutals .Cosmetics to whatever, let it be random.
takeing rank out will eliminate the players rage from not gaining anything… I’d rather die 100 time’s trying to get content, than nothing. It’ll make play the bases…
so take it out on a trial run and see the impact now.
Did you miss the part where there is no way to LOSE rank anymore? you literally can't go down. everyone who bothered to rank up with risk got devalued and didn't get compensated, but now everyone following them just gets easy street. they had no problem awarding prestige retroactively on outposts, so what about the rank?
you want rank removed, i don't. i rather like my number and working to get it closer and closer to 1. makes me feel acomplished to compete against other players to move up the ladder, thats the point of master rank but the casuals all see it as "oh, i'm master 2000, guess master is easy and everyone here did what did (grinding normals)" because they aren't actually challenging themselves. they don't have any way to track yourself against other players stats outside of master ranking, so no. i don't want it removed.
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This mechanic now functions identially when using 2nd wave acid instead of a holo block since the patch, this is new behavior for acid previously it blocked the path, perhaps the path being considered valid is intended but him not moving along it is the only part of the bug.
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@Nahasno said:
Some at one death some at two deaths some with no death but 3 min video with senselessy jumping around outside the outpost... just getting the tombs and not even trying to go inside.
Edit:
I mean it's a medium map in brutal... why join those if you don't even try?
i've seen ONE player die more than twice outside of social since patch. everyone else quits at 1 or 2, or gets it on the first try. that guy made 5 attempts then quit.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424962#Comment_3424962
Oh sure, but the second wave lava exploit was driving players away. Because a lot of people dodged bases when they contained lava cubes. Simply because they feared the exploit.
they'll fear "legitimate mechanics" and quit too, did you not consider that? if the issue is fear causing them to leave they need to conquer that fear or they won't improve. taking away builders tools instead of improving their functionality will push builders away. we already don't like grabbing ammo through our walls or kiting our guards outside where they can't pursue raiders to get free kills. there seems to be a ton of consideration for the raider that the builder is supposed to cater to, but where are our fixes against raider exploitation? builders complaints get ignored because there are less of us. it's easy to be a raider and just hop in and out of any dungeon with no penalty. builders spend hours crafting things and get minimal raides, get bad mouthed by the raiders who abuse their dungeons and exploit their own mechanics then call the builder an exploiter cause they had a one way door, or 2nd wave acid. it's a double standard. so if all you want to see is copy and paste basic youtube builds, sure, take away out tools and encourage quitting instead of fleshing out our tools and encouraging learning.
we could have given raiders a tenacity bonus that rewarded them for finally completing something with many attempts or times spent, we could have given grace periods for leaving outposts without fully removing penalties. as some point there needs to be accountability that a player made an active decision to do something and there SHOULD BE consequences to that. but since the patch, outside of socials, i've had ONE person die more than twice in a dungeon and continue playing, because why continue playing? theres no penalty to quitting and finding something easier. why bother learning when you can just go play free XP maps (i have 4 up because of how many raids they get, i don't even bother making art builds or fun things anymore for normal, they just don't get the raids that XP maps do) yet these are the people that got catered to. i don't care of those players are driven away, i don't want to share a playerbase with them anyways. anyone who willingly hunts down XP maps in a game like this honestly makes me cringe.
so i make my XP maps the most unpleasant and unrewarding experience i can, to discourage that type of map hunting. those raids being selected takes raids away from art builds and builds that actually challenge the player to learn and completely ruin the point of the game "here, free stuff in a post-apocalyptic wasteland based around thieving genetic material to survive" and if those players are driven out, XP maps will stop getting raids and we'll see more REAL maps.
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@chezpizza said:
So I'm noticing a new outpost build that I'm not entirely sure I like and that's the one where hrvs path is just sentinel floors.
Prior to the update I didn't see this build and I mostly play brutal. I encountered my share of sentinel hell with killbox walls stuffed with the evil eyes however with hrv to walk over sentinel traps the outposts feel border-line impossible.
this has been part of the game since before the patch and self destruct plasma floors are the primary counter to the shield dome.
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@Tsulan said:
Never thought i would find people defending exploits for the sake of game health.
But... here we are.
all exploits have the potential to become mechanics, the only separation is dev intention and that can be swayed. do you disagree that those statements are true?
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424648#Comment_3424648
I've seen a handful of truly amazing outposts. Even if I'm not the one who built them, I feel it is a shame that only a limited number of players will ever come across them before they are retired to obscurity (assuming the creator even put them on social raid). Besides, what gamer doesn't dream of achieving immortality by creating something that becomes part of the game they love?
i have maps that are permenantly on social that i spread within the community, some are challenges, some are educational. i also make a reputation among the players by moving from twitch stream to twitch stream. the notoriety that comes with your name is what gives your maps their legacy. i have no issue getting people to come look at my past works. i've even torn some down and rebuilt them as tool to help the community practice and learn. i don't need them to be "live" permenantly or generating me resources for them to make me feel good. it only drifts into obscurity if you do. be known and so will your creations.
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@soggydonuts said:
I know the point is to not let raiders get your precious resources. However, using the cube to prevent raiders from getting synthite and parts is low. Learning outposts just to be screwed over and only allowed to get genmat is crap. You have to run the outpost multiple times to even make it worth it.
No one probably cares but I don't give accolades to outposts like that and we should be able to give a bad review on an outpost besides just abandoning it and losing xp. Imo its an exploit that needs to be resolved. Making a run on an outpost with no reward is a waste of time and pointless.
if you can file a review on the base can the builder file a review on the raider?
also really? "imo it's an exploit that needs to be resolved" putting a block in front of a optional objective that can be countered by a weapon that's offered to every raider. that's an exploit to you? oh good lord.
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@Nahasno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424926#Comment_3424926
You are not the comu!!! There are as many opinions in the comu as there are players.
Just stop framing you point of view (which may or maybe not "good") as the opinion of the majority of a comu where more than half are mute players which never will join any discussions, they still belong to the comunitiy. You can't possibly know what "the comunitiy" wants because there is NO and there will never be unity in the playerbase about this.
we feel the same way about the people who got corrosive targeting removed rather than made into a mod with a cost. they were vocal, they were not the majority but complained loudly enough that it got taken away. you say he shouldn't frame his point of view as the majorty, why do you assume that you're the majority opinion? just because it was removed? just means that faction was louder. it's also possible that devs made a judgement error out of fear of losing their game because of that vocal population. doing things that aren't good for the game out of fear is something that happens. negative stimuli is often stronger than positive so it takes a lot more of us supporting things to make them into balanced cost adjusted mechanics, but it takes less effort to just bend and remove it entirely. there are plenty of people beyond just momolepro that were in support of that removed function. we just didn't feel a need to be as vocal because we thought it was balanced enough it wouldn't be considered for full on removal. opaque needed fixing, that i agree on but removing targeting entirely i disagree with wholeheartedly and i look forward to when we get the player support to bring it back as a mod.
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@Nahasno said:
But that's exactly the problem you and perhaps many more see it like this others may perhaps like mazes.
I just don't get why everybody seems to think that an outpost has to be either a maze or a killbox.
You can use both concepts in one design and then it doesn't get overboard or boring. Make a few (short) corridors with nice trap designs and a well designed killroom (or more). And yes long labyrinthine corridor designs completly without traps are boring and sry stupid, it doesn't do the builder one bit of good it just annoys the raider.
There are many maps where i ask myself what was the intention of the builder - just to brainf... s.o. or didn't he or she have the cap points to trap everything as intended? In an rank 9 or 10 i would tend to the first in maps with lower ranking i would tend to the second. But if then there are other things like meanly trapped tombs (e.g. bomblayer) or nasty corrosive cube combos maybe the builder is just a griefer?
And why do Rank 1 small maps get equipped directly with high cap traps which means much less traps per map than low cap traps? 750 cap 300-400 used on blocks and the rest for high cap traps is just bad usage of resources. 350- 450 points for traps are 7-9 bolttrowers and even more impalers without mod, but only 5-7 flamethrowers or any other 70 cap trap. That's just for unmoded traps if you put mods on them then there are even less traps in such a setup.
rank 1 small maps use expensive traps because boltshot and impaler are basically worthless against co-op. they don't really have any other options, it's fire and plasma for co-op, piston and fire for speed runners, and bombs to try to get kills from panic. guards are a joke unless theres 12-20 in a room.
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@Dreamnomad said:
"If you want edit the gameplay pls add new traps not delete interesting mecanics.."
When you say "mechanics" you actually mean bugs. They shouldn't leave bugs in just because a small group of players like them. Hell, they shouldn't leave bugs in even if the vast majority like them.
can we fix the bug where raiders can pull bolts through solid walls?
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@Samannoyed said:
I agree. Since the latest patch it feels like my bases aren’t getting any raids. Used to look forward to getting up in the morning and checking raids but now nothing. Almost feels like this patch killed the game as I am not interested in building bases that don’t get raided.
you should come hang out in twitch chat with the night-time group. we exchange maps all the time, play eachothers stuff, you won't get resources but you will get feedback from strong players and the entertainment of watching streamers play them live.
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the way i calculate items is as follows. my highest death count is 47. if i were to use 3 grenades a run i need at least 150 to guarantee a clear using 3 grenades every run on the hardest content i've ever seen. so as long as i have at least 150 of everything, i can't run out in a raid is my logic. as long as i can't run out mid-raid i can use as many as i want freely, and refill after.
my current stock is 500 of everything
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@Nahasno said:
A few wouldn't be a problem if your outposts get enough raids to offset the "loss".
There is a difference if you get 40 raids in 24 hours and perhaps 10 quit early while the others play through and die more often than not more than twice. Or the same Outpost gets only 5 raids in 24 hours and 4 quiters.
Pls don't tell me it's the design because it ran fine with same setup before the update - so it's nothing on my side that reduced the number of raids on this outpost significantly. And those that raid it and don't quit - give accolades even if they die often, so it can't be to bad. And I raid maybe not a lot but i try to do atleast three champion outposts a day for the mats in normal, dangerous and brutal (depends on my mood) - if i have the time i raid even more.
For me it's not even the "loss" of deaths but the loss of videos - i want to see those outposts played - if they kill good for me, if they don't good for the raider. But i want to see action - if the raiders best some of my designs it's for the better - maybe i find a way to modify my design to be better or more fun - maybe not. Sometimes i get the idea for a whole new maps by just watching the raids on my outpost.
were your quitters at 1 death?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424839#Comment_3424839
There is a lot to unpack in this single post, so let me break this down. :D
Obligatory flexing rank as if it means something... when many games have taught us that skill is justified by how you express yourself within a game, being decisive but quick, aggressive but knowledge, etc, but not bound by the definition of a fictional number. Not saying that you arent skilled at the game, I think that you very well are, Im just saying that the ranking system is not really a good way of displaying it.
"Im unhappy because a mechanic was removed cause it was too hard for me," expect Im not, I literally said difficulty has nothing to do with it. My issue was with it's application, and I have stated that Im fine with it being in the game if it rewarded smarter trap placement, since Im getting tired of endless tunnels just spamming this exploit, it lacked creativity but everyone was doing it because it was easily abusable. The bases were not hard, it's just boring.
Also I felt as if from a long-term perspective, it was not healthy for the game, as we get more traps and more gear, it is possible for gear to become restricted heavily leaving less variety for raiders, and with new traps and augments being released, the killing potential for this exploit increases. Instead, I suggested that the developers keep this as a mechanic but introduce it as an augment, which will still have good application for it, but limit how much it can be used, to keep it's strength moderated.
Also frankly I dont care if people kill Harvey, I have no issue navigating maps myself, even if 30 minute maze maps are annoying, I personally have no issue with it, if youve seen any of my discussions before, or even met me in person, youd know that I am a very difficult person to piss off, I rarely get mad at games since it's childish to get upset over it. <3
"I always tell us "BUILD BETTER" well, GET GOOD," expect I never really have. I have been a huge supporter of those who build since Ive seen a lot of great and smart builds out there. Hell, when you could leave a base with no repercussions, I made a post saying how it was a step in the wrong direction. You can look at it for yourself. Besides this one point, I really dont know the entire point in the rest of this paragraph, this could be me being illiterate but I really just dont get it, my apologizes. :/
"Cry more about acid," except Im not. I think Corrosive Cubes have an amazing spot in the game, and I called that they would become a "meta" block/trap early on, and when all my friends mocked me, look at where we are now, it's one of the most used blocks in the game (from my experience). <3
"Write me a paragraph," right at it. I know people in the internet, especially in text, cannot tell what mood someone is, so they assume the worst, but frankly I enjoy conversations like this. You can jump to conclusions and make assumptions, but Im still having a grand ole' time since I get to discuss my thinking. Is a bit egocentric? Maybe, but Im on the Forums for a reason, to discussion and chat. :D
My main gripe with your original post was that you immediately jumped the gun to try and make fun of me instead of actually looking into my opinions or ideas.
Keep in mind, my original post was about the developers listening to the community as a whole, and relaying information for the community to read if they had not read it yet. I never included any opinions in the original post, but you still tried to make fun of me over an informative post, and you still continue to jump to conclusions and make fun of me without actually trying to put yourself in my perspective. :S
I can see where your frustration comes from in regards to the changes made to the game though, I personally think it is better for the long term for the game, Im sure things will improve for you as development for the game continues and maybe even when Sector 1 is released. <3
i also enjoy these conversations, and i used your post to kind of address the general public on topics, they weren't all directed directly at you. just my perception of the community based on what i see in the forums. i did read your post that you advocated for addition. i think that the spamming of 2nd wave acid was a result of not having better ideas. but i loved 2nd wave acid halls more than i like the "legit" plasma cloud spam in one room. it gave me a guessing game of whats where, but also so many were poorly built to the point you could just walk through them. i see these piston walkway plasma+fire rooms and i just roll my eyes and walk through them. just because something is used widely and all over in bulk doesn't make it good, i agree there. the acid was never a challenge, even when it was combined with opaque it was more a guessing game of do i or don't i, almost every configuration of the acid setup was 2 acid into a fire with some kind of explosive trap to guard it in case you shield dove in. those traps could only affect at most 2 spaces of the path WITH dragons breath which trivialized them to the point i'd ignore them. similarly to how i ignore the 1 way door ammo eating traps, they just aren't worth shooting at with their restricted firing angle. i pulled my rank out because you addressed me as if i had no idea what i was talking about, nobody that high up can be assumed to be a complete idiot safely so i stated my position. it was to display exposure to the content primarily. the origonal satire post was me expressing my discontent with the patch, not attempting to mock you directly.
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Caltrops - 15 points - Bombs become non-lethal and scatter caltrops on the ground, which disable speed stims when stepped on.
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players overwhelming play XP maps in normal over art builds or challenges why bother putting in effort knowing this?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424062#Comment_3424062
Wow, cool, using an awful example to try and make fun of my post yet you are ignoring a few things...
- This exploit can be used beyond just 1 tile of Corrosive Cubes... by using 2 tiles of CC; which can make it impossible to retrieve bolts without the Arc Barrier. This is objectively harmful for the game since it restricts you to using a specific loadout to deal with something that is not even intended by the developers... you have to think about things from the long term since it could have bad implications for future traps and restricting future variety... it had to go.
- There are many awful applications of this exploit, any many cases it is easy to deal with. Again, my issue has nothing to do with difficulty, so your argument of "you cant handle it despite it being easy" proves to be a strawman. My entire reason for disliking this exploit is it restricting what can be used, NOT the difficulty.
- I have gone on record to say that there are good applications for the SWCC Exploits, since it can make the Splatter augment work, I even made the suggestion to make it a mod but have a high capacity cost to reward smart placement and remove killbox spam. Check my Discussions to see it for yourself.
Before you talk about stuff using sarcasm and preconceived notions, do your research on who you are talking to, because you are outright embarrassing yourself.
i'm master 63 buddy. you're the one happy a mechanic was removed cause it was too hard for you. you're the one embarassing yourself, not me. but come at me again for your inability to see a trap behind acid. the "exploit" was never 'restricting what can be used' thats creativity, you've gotten them mixed up. i also advocated to it's addition. some traps don't need to be shot and by moving it off the back by 3 rows and putting it behind 40 capacity worth of acid it was BLATANTLY apparent it was there.
on top of that you're one of those raiders who thinks that harvey works for them. he works for the outpost owner, the builder. we strap bombs to our guards, why would harvey be ANY different? piston got patched, i'm glad it was working inconsistently. but i'm still dead man switching the little rat, and thats 100% legal and not reportable, so spawn killing harvey, still a thing.
and yeah, i made a post making fun of people who cried about a liquid they could see and shoot through letting a trap do the same. pardon me for thinking that there should be a level of fairness to how players interact with their acid. you know, you can shoot it, it can shoot you, it's called equality. but people don't want challenges or equality, they want raider sided 0-1 death runs where they win every time.
probably why prestiege got changed, people were quitting bases that got ANY kills, and not giving accolades to ones that didn't. why? because raiders don't reward builders and they never will. sure YOU might give accolades, but your accolades do nothing to dent the synthite the builder spends to keep the map active, and then people rage quit the ones that can get those resources. so no, i don't care that those people hated the acid. i loved it, and anyone who couldn't handle it, "GET GOOD" we builders have to multi-layer walls so you raiders don't pull ammo through walls, or put guards in places you can't kite them out and abuse them. you always tell us "BUILD BETTER" well, GET GOOD.
cry about acid more, it makes me laugh that we're still talking about this after it's patched. thanks for caring so much to write me a paragraph, i care too so you can have this. have a great day in your nerfed game. i'm gonna keep doin me, kthx.
oh i missed this, ammo traps SHOULD be part of the game. it's called an economic decision, the concept that you give something up to get something else. you take a trap, lose a bolt, gain freedom in an area. it's up to you to decide which ammo traps offered are mandatory and which are ignorable. learn to identify what is and is not a threat to you, and if everything is, practice more.
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i predicted this would happen when they removed penalty. a bunch of 1 death quitter. block your tombs with 2nd wave holo blocks, costs max 45 and forces them to complete to get loot.
man threw his phoenix pod down, and instead of respawning when he died, he quit. another guy ran the map no deaths in a minute, props to him.
but this game is populated with people who are targeting free xp maps over art and challenges, they argued that 2nd wave corrosive was too hard until it was removed while they freely pull ammo through solid objects and shoot at guards that can't walk to them because of map boundaries like thats okay and they say "build better" but if we tell them "get good" we're exploiting garbage. the double standard pisses me off honestly. but here you have exactly what we said you'd see. people either winning immediately, or quitting. no desire to overcome challenge. and yes, those are XP maps designed to make people stop running them that you see in my list.
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confirmed getting raids now. <3
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@LordRaidenCR said:
It would be nice if you can just get a plain flat outpost and start from scratch, and also have the option to select the GenMat and drag it around so you can rearrange and redesign your Outpost.
while were at it, tombs.
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@worldnamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424424#Comment_3424424
Having played against the many clones of the second-wave corrosive cube exploit, I look forward to people using this cube in new ways. I saw a really cool base that was Brutal difficulty that used it for a two-way base where the way you entered was a jumping puzzle and the other path was a killbox, and it was lovely. I died like eight times trying to get the jumping down, but it was super fun.
And hunter and iron claw still go through the cubes, they just can't target you until you're in the open. I think maybe what you're highlighting is that there's a lack of significant mods on most traps and guards? Like, second wave, sure. But then after that, I'd say most of the mods for the cube feel unimpactful. Hardened is pretty situational, and opaque is good, but again, pretty narrow in its applications. And splatter feels a little underwhelming. Whereas the bolttrap mods are much more valuable, each having a pretty good impact.
A mod that makes a single corrosive cube transparent to traps and doesn't double stack with other corrosive cubes, even with those with this modifier, would be fine, in my opinion, if it doesn't stack with opaque. Opaque should always block LOS. But given that there's all those exceptions that would need for the mod to be balanced, I can understand why they simply patched the behavior out.
i disagree with your idea of how to balance it. theres no need to make it not work through two, make the capacity cost something that putting it on 2 side by side repeatedly is cost detrimental. but no mod should stop working because the block next to it has the same mod, thats bad code.
edit - either way this thread has come to it's conclusion as 2nd wave corrosive has been patched. we should start a new thread for further discusisons.
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you may have better luck in the community discord
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i'm not really attached to any particular outpost. *shrug*
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we stilll busted?
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WARNING - THE INFORMATION ABOVE THIS RELATED TO MATCHMAKING IS OUTDATED, NEW INFORMATION WILL BE PROVIDED AS ACQUIRED, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3
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@shpawen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424198#Comment_3424198
Sorry, I'm so frustrated after last patch and how many people happy to it, I can't even believe that there is someone who understand why it's totally wrong direction to develop this game.
<3 i have a ton of posts in feedback for suggested changes and additions. please feel free to take a look through, the more voices that approve, the more traction they have.
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@shpawen said:
It was possible to beat bases like this (most of them, at least what I faced) but it requires unlocked shields and understanding how this game works with ability to play like a skilled player, not like "hey, I'm new to this game, why it so hard, please remove all challenges and add me button Press_to_Win". It was possible and it was fun. WAS.
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still haven't seen any raids on pc ^.^ anyone else?
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@momolepro48 said:
Its easy to beat that when u know play to mym...
it's satire
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I'd like emblem decals that benchmark the thousands and can be put on your suit or outpost.
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i thought you had something new. this is the holo block bug it's already been discussed
also i didn't realize you needed your hand held to the door, that dungeon looked pretty straight forward. how did this negatively affect your gameplay other than someone not holding your hand with an ai?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424029#Comment_3424029
You do realize that the current rank system was heavily punishing base builders, right?
The ability to lose rank is why Brutal Bases did not get raided that much to begin with; and I often found it more profitable to make Normal Bases or Advance Bases because I got significantly more profits and significantly more raids.
Less people raiding. => Less profits. => Bases becomes harder to upkeep. => Less incentive to build.
The easiest way to solve this is by creating the least restrictive environment for players. People can now raid Brutal Bases without being punished significantly, giving time for people to actually learn and improve at the game as well, but leading to more raids. Brutal Base builders can get to work without worrying so much. It overall benefited the game.
My point is that the old rank system caused a lot of issues with the game. You got to look at things from a bigger picture.
Also if you want a challenge, the challenge is still there, want to beat a Brutal Base without dying? Nobody is stopping you, go ahead and try it. You can even self-enforce other challenges on yourself as well. That's the beauty of games, you can play it however you want.
i never had problems with income or upkeep. and i openly explained to everyone how to fix their issues with it. my bases got raided plenty, and i only raid brutals unless they're all bugged with 0M because i don't want the risk of a maze, not a fan of mazes. raiding brutals was about being better not about rank, rank came with being better. they made it so anyone can just crawl to the top with no setbacks. it's completely devalued anyone who go there while dealing with the difficult content and suffering setbacks. what punishes builders is the raiders mindset that everything has to be easy for them. i ran the numebrs, out of 3 normal bases i got about 58 raids between 2 maps that just said "XP" on the front, and 10 on an art build that looked like a dragon. the playerbase doesn't want challenges, they want free stuff. and players like that are the ones advocating for no penalty for leaving.
at least in the old system people were encouraged to try at least 3 time before tying with the penalty for leaving, now we are going to see a flood of 1st death rage quits since there is no penalty for it. we won't see more kills or activity in brutal, we'll see the same thing we've always seen but now they'll leave at 1 instead of 3.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3423235#Comment_3423235
This is crazy.
I also found a similarly perplexing issue, where having a slope ceiling was fine, but replacing this with a corner piece (which technically provides more clearance above his head) was invalid.
this is nowhere near the craziest thing i've found. a group of friends and i filed a support ticket to report the bug that i accidentally created in one of my bases. we don't want it in the bug report forum so people don't copy it and it shows up everywhere. it's worse than 2nd wave acid ^.^
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@BillSimmons said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3423233#Comment_3423233
I have had constant success with just waiting for the difficulty to get calculated, then removing and readding a block to recalculate it. If there's a pending change it has shown itself after doing that little delete->undo action.
Teetering on the edge of another difficultly rating has been and continues to be one of the more tedious parts of building.
thank you for this more efficient method.
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@worldnamer said:
There are many people who have stated that the corrosive cube exploit is a top issue for them, so I understand why BHVR have made it a priority. (The patch speed does leave a lot to be desired.)
I would honestly be okay with traps targeting through a single corrosive cube that does not have the opaque mod. More than that and you end up with really bad bolt traps that can only be solved by one tool in the game, which is bad. Bolt traps themselves are really bad, and until they fix them, Magnetic Link needs to be able to work through walls but I do see that as secondary to the corrosive cube issue.
Also, I think people forget that corrosive cubes are exceptionally deadly even without the ability for traps to shoot through them. I have died / I have bases where people die to them even without iron claw traps, even without double stacking them. They're 15 points for a cube that creates terrain, potentially kills, and creates an eerie light in your base. They're fine without additional traps.
people don't like "operator error" traps, look at all the people complaining about 1 way doors that force them to reset which is essentially the same as accidentally stepping in acid.
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yep, confirmed 100% fair, absolutely balanced. it used to be impossible to do bases like this because of 2nd wave corrosive exploits, thank god they fixed it, there was no way to beat bases like this before.
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update -
there appears to be some bug with the listing system
this player has 12 brutals listed, 2 of each catagory, all different names.
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3424025#Comment_3424025
Lol, same. I stopped buying after 300 or so of each. If I were to buy all those now then I'd have to pay 6000 more parts. (300 x 4 = 1200. 1200 x 5 = 6000)
i forgot until i looked. i actually moved to 400 this past week on my stockpile XD i did that same math earlier. and like, that 6k wouldn't even dent my current stockpile. i could probably afford to buy it all again from scratch had they wiped it out.
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i prefered that those who kept their floors clean got more raids. it meant that the more active you were the more content you experienced. time to figure out how the NEW matchmaking setup works, sigh i was getting over 70 raids a day on the old system.
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if people don't find brutal difficulty fun for it's own merits they shouldn't be there. i don't care if i get less raids or kills if it means yall don't whine. but now i have to deal with every dungeon having no creativity plasma spam boxes cause thats SOOOOO much better than the fun of hidden traps. so because it was too hard for all of you normies, the rest of us who enjoy challenge got shafted.
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*casually looks at my stockpile of 300+ of everything.*
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additional data
with cross-content off i get no raids
with cross-content on i see both crossplatform and steam users
i think it the bug may be related to the menu selection. i'm also betting you can't see bases of people who haven't updated yet.
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i mean if you want to target weak bases i guess that makes you a weak player. i target short bases because i'm an impatient player. you choose your own experience mate, if you care about rank either play hard stuff and get really good really fast so you climb, or play a bunch of easy stuff and crawl to the finish line without ever learning. the choice is yours, do whatever is fun in my opinion.
welp now that every single 5 year old with a keyboard is capable of making masters via "monkey on a typewriter" thanks for devaluing my 55,000 rank points that i worked to get with risk.
old system at least encouraged giving 3 attempts before leaving because it was equal value to a quit. new system promotes 1 death leaves since theres no punishment. enjoy a gimped playerbase who only plays stuff that can beat without dying and leaves everything else.
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@Seraphor said:
I don't know if there's some odd additional qualifiers for difficulty rating, or if it's a bug. But I've had two Dangerous outposts (on the verge of Brutal) suddenly jump up to Brutal rating after I entered and cleared them, without actually changing a single thing.
It's already a pain to have to gimp your own outposts to keep them in the Dangerous category, when they're clearly not difficult in the slightest. But if there is some system of recalculating difficulty based on actual kill ratios, that would be great, and should allow for the cut off values to be decreased to give more leeway to Dangerous outposts that aren't actually difficult.
i have posts on this topic in the bug report forum if you'd like details on that.
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@worldnamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3423223#Comment_3423223
First off, great post, I just wanted to respond to a piece, because it's been haunting me for a bit.
"perhaps the bad melee spot you feel is actually a desire to have melee be all around good when this is a pick the right tool for the task style game."
I have been wrestling with this question for like a week now, and what I've come to, is that I don't know any situation where sword is the right answer. For many cases, it's decidedly the wrong answer. I don't know cases where gun is the wrong answer. Let me unpack what I mean.
The best performing situation for sword is arenas. Basically, rooms that have a number of guards set up for you to deal with who have different elevations and using both melee and ranged units. Sword has glitches that get you killed, a defensive secondary that doesn't work well with melee (the arc barrier), and match ups that are much harder than with the ranged approach. If I'm facing a room full of guards, I do not want a sword, I want a plasmabow. The bow will be much safer, have better results, allow you to pare down the opposition, and from relative safety. The thing you do get out of sword is to fly like a maniac through the room and if you don't get grappled, shot down by an overload of projectiles, or cornered to death by flamethrowers, then you get to win. Can you beat very hard arenas with a sword? Absolutely. Is it easier than using the ranged options? I feel like it's not.
On the other side, you get to break traps without worrying about ammo, so that's nice, but when is sword actually better than bow for that? You have to be very near a trap to hit it with a sword, and that exposes you to any additional traps targeting that cube. It's very easy to end up in a spot where you died because you smashed the wrong trap. That just doesn't happen with a bow. Yes, the arc barrier makes up for a lot of those situations, but I'm not sure why arc barrier and volt lancer would be worse there.
It's possible that I just don't understand the circumstances swords shine in very well. But I primarily run double gun right now and it feels like the only challenges I can't tackle with that are ones where I need an arc barrier, not a sword. And if sword is never the answer, then the original point about this being a right-tool-for-the-job game doesn't seem like it holds up.
Annnyway, respect, your post has lots of good points. Just chewing on this specific issue because I don't have a good answer there.
no worries. i myself don't like any weapon that can't break traps and i'm not big on getting into close combat unless forced. most of my time is spent avoiding a trap or enemy. i go into outposts as a rogue, my goal is to get the treasure and get out while causing the least ammount of disturbance and in as little time as possible. in some cases the sword is the right answer for a playstyle like that because of the lunge and speed increases, but because of my aversion to being in close i stick to my 3 shot bow. i am also prone to making mistakes in my wild grappling around, or getting pinned by a warmonger's shoulder, so i run shield. but there are times when i've had to pull out the plasma bow because it's a 20 guard map and going to get that ammo from the 3 shot gun is a pain. there are plenty of tradeoffs to each weaponset. as for when it's not great to have a gun, tight corners with warmongers are immensely dangerous for ranged users, anywhere a good ammo eater or corpse collector is built is also detrimental to the ranged user. it forces us to get close into a situation that isn't our best. we also have the ability to miss and lose a shot to a room, or a pit, or some contraption. that isn't something the sword user worries about.
as a gun player i have to constantly manage my ammo and hunt it back down in the middle of a room just to continue my combat, where as a melee user has the ability to seemlessly move from one combat to another at any pace they can manage/choose. i have seen sword players make plays that i would have thought weren't doable. and it's really opened my eyes to their potential. once the rank reset comes in in june i plan to swap build and practice sword and shield through the ladder.
edit - the main thing i'm trying to say is that forcing a ranged player into melee causes them to enter chaos mode, i know i don't want a plasmabow against 7 armored warmongers in a narrow hall.. a melee user just doesn't care and starts slashing. not many bases currently utilize guards in a way that they ambush you in close quarters from all sides, so often you can kite and bow. that gap in builder skill will go away over time and the sword will become more viable. also as there are new augments and AI improvements. but on the "pick the right tool for the job topic" i just don't think there are many JOBS right now that have been created for swords.
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@grimthejester said:
Players who build impossible bases, basses with ratios averaging too high should no longer recieve rewards. Too many bases are buit with no creativity, but simply a smattering of traps in every direction that pound a play relentlessly. There should be a system in place to avoid rewarding players for that.
A player should have to be able to play and beat their own base before publishing. This way they prove it can be done.
If a player can't beat their own base, they should not be allowed to publish it.
if you've seen so many impossible bases, please, make one and send me the name so i can show you that it's not impossible. why should i have to run my own map to appease you? if you think it's impossible, practice, or leave. but why should i lose out on rewards because you chose to play my map and didn't know how to handle it?
every map i've ever made i can beat. do you make a habit of posting maps you can't complete? cause i don't think anyone else does either. i think you're just assuming all these builders can't raid and just need the ego stroke of forcing them to do it so you can just go in, decide you hate it, and leave anyways.