MadMoeZel
MadMoeZel
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@worldnamer said:
Beyond the digging up the commentary on what Behavior is working on and what the devs have said, etc, there's some pretty clear logical conclusions you can draw, just with the information you have in front of you.
Corrosive cubes block line of sight for traps. You may not like that design, but that is how they act. Now, there's one situation where corrosive cubes don't block line of sight, and it's only if you use a specific mod, and only after you grab the genmat.
Now, you could say "oh, corrosive cubes don't block line of sight after the genmat is picked up!" But they do! Only those marked "second-wave" have this bug. First wave cubes block los after you pick up the genmat. So the second-wave mod is changing their transparency for trap los.
You could say "oh, this must be intended for the second wave mod" but literally this is the only second-wave mod that does anything other than reveal the trap after a short delay. No other blocks change their mechanics from first to second wave.
Look at Reddit, Steam, this forum, or Twitter, and everyone who talks about this understands this is an exploit. Let me turn this around on you, and ask why on earth do you think this is intended behavior?
there is an argument that since the bug is that first wave should be allowing targeting and there is a bug preventing acid from functioning properly unless it's second wave. there is also a patch note on this website that documents a change to make boltshot not shoot through acid anymore (which they currently do so that's clearly unintended) but that doesn't mean that all traps have that exclusion by default. it could be that boltshot was removed from the list of acceptable targeting and that in doing that they broke first wave acid's targeting for all other traps as well, second wave may have been unaffected by that patch resulting in it functioning as it would have during first wave prior to the boltshot patch. as i wasn't around back then, i have no idea what acid functioned like in beta.
with all that said, the devs have acknowledged it's current functionality (second wave allowing the ability to target for traps) is unintended. they did not specify if that was related to people using the opaque combo, which clearly an opaque object has no logical reason to allow visual based targeting where as a logical argument could be made for the translucent state of non-opaque corrosive cubes. they have stated an intent to "fix" it but have given no calrification on what a fix entails. this could be anywhere from full removal, to full inclusion during first and second wave. they may even decide to keep targeting through opaque (personally i'd prefer not but i'll deal with it, not like it breaks the game to an unplayable state) they may even modify it's function and have it cause a nerf to targeting. but until then, reporting bases that use mechanics provided to them is malicious and just sets the community back. all raiders use every tool they have available to them (not talking to the players who honor the maps intention) where you have them leaving bases to pull ammo through solid walls, or going outside the map boundary so a guard can't shoot or swing at them and picking them off at a distance that doesn't permit retaliation. they swear to god thats an intended mechanic but the shape of a block not letting them through is a sin against humanity.
the double standard needs to stop. it's on the DEVELOPERS to fix these things,don't blame the workers for using the tools their bosses provide to the best of their ability, demand the boss get better tools.
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@worldnamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3423220#Comment_3423220
For sure for sure. It depends on the normals / dangerous levels obviously, and I respect the synthite grind, it's a mood. I just never do brutals in 2-4 minutes - it's usually 10-20 minutes, and in that time I can definitely do two to three dangerous bases.
But it's not actually even about that for me - for me, large bases mean that if I screw up and I die, I am gonna have to walk back all that way to pick up where I died. The longer the base is, the more painful that is. And don't even get me started on mazes, which happen far more often on large maps. Killboxes are more fun than mazes, and I find killboxes to be boring.
i can relate. i don't find killboxes boring myself but they're less fun than a clever base with room to play. mazes are just time wasters. if i spent 10 minutes on a raid i feel like i'm not getting the value for my time. the exception to that being if i learn a new skill or somehow get to refine one.
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@worldnamer said:
I definitely get raids overnight, usually from people who work odd shifts or are located in other countries. And I definitely get raids even though I don't hand clean every hour or two. I 100% respect that these things might get you more raids, and I respect if you do that micro to get more genmat or whatever. I just haven't thought about it super hard, so maybe that's a thing you might want to do but the last thing I wanna do is write a schedule for a level I designed.
which is your prerogative ^.^ honestly it'd be nice if we could set times that we want specific maps to be active while we are away so we could set a rotation for our brutal maps over the course of a few days and take a break.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3423227#Comment_3423227
I don't understand. Do Builders have to do that every time they make any changes just to get it to recalculate properly?
matter of precision. if you don't mind it being a little off, no. but if you want to know for certain. yes.
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i found an interaction that invalidates HRV path.
this one pyramid block is the only difference.
edit - this fixes it????
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@TragicSolitude said:
I've never personally seen it change hours and hours later, but the difficulty rating is so broken I don't doubt what you say.
I have a base where the difficulty rating goes up to Dangerous every time I open it. I then delete two specific traps and put those same exact traps back in the same exact spots and it stays Normal. I have to go through that routine every time I open that Outpost in Build mode for any reason.
I've opened a base that's Normal, applied a single Decal, and had that base go up to Dangerous for it. Removing the Decal didn't fix it. I had to remove multiple traps, which is devastating on a Normal base that already had very few traps as it was.
the easiest way to verify this, is to make a map, find the edge of difficulty, make that difference one guard that can't see harvey's path. then when it's on the lower difficulty, go into test mode and exit again to refresh the difficulty meter to confirm, then set that guard to patrol so he can see harvey's path. go into test and exit again to reset difficulty meter and it should have changed based purely on the guard now seeing the path due to patrol.
i think the needed removal of multiple traps has to do with targeting overlap and it not calculating that properly until you do the test
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@Alertix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3423028#Comment_3423028
Post the link please?
Otherwise it is hearsay.
they said "fix" they haven't confirmed how. it was in a reddit AMA you should be able to google "Meet Your Maker Reddit April AMA"
best part about this, go make a post about how they can pull ammo through a solid object and they'll call that an intended game mechanic. i fully intend to be pushing for the magnetic ammo pickup to REQUIRE line of sight to recover bolts.
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@worldnamer said:
It feels to me like melee is in a bad spot, on release.
Incinerators nearly make melee-only builds unviable. Add in the plasma sentinel's plasma cloud mod, claw traps, and corrosive cubes making fight spaces pretty much impossible to navigate, and melee looks exceptionally bad.
Also, the sword delays are incredibly long, especially the armor breaking sword. Hit-box registration is dodgy as heck. Input delay means you can die to an Enforcer's bolt that you actively parry. And the biggest counterplay that a sword user has, the Arc Barrier, turns off if you swing your sword.
Is there any indication that melee will get adjustments to make them more viable?
the game is a "bring the correct tools to the task to make your job easier" scenario. some things are suited for melee, guard fights for example. BAM BAM armor break, dead instant. or rushing halls, SWING SWING SWING SWING just spam lunging. but plasma and fire are a weak point. but since co-ops and solos play the same game and single/double fire traps only reset on TPK and co-ops have limitless revives, multi-fire traps like plasma and incinerators are currently meta to prevent outposts from being trivialized. it is your choice to take the hard route and refuse to use the free equipment swap offered at every respawn. it is also you choice to continue doing an outpost that your equipment is not well suited too. you can always back out of it and come back once you have more gear or practice. i've seen dual sword builds tear through some of my hardest content, i've seen it done with two guns, a gun and shield, a sword and shield. everything is possible. but dual sword was deffinately the HARDEST way to take it on, but still possible.
perhaps the bad melee spot you feel is actually a desire to have melee be all around good when this is a pick the right tool for the task style game.
@Darkyan said:
As a double melee user, my only gripes so far are ;
The Extended Range flamethrowers mod in a hallway.
The danger compass for cannonback and bomb traps being awfully wrong,
The lunge on sledgesword teleporting me inside activated traps even if my intention is to hit the side of it with the wide swing, or even worst, the wide swing not registering a very clear hit on the trap even though it left a clean swipe decal on it.
And the worst of all. Fake trigger registration which results in fake melee swings with no damage, essentially killing you instantly if you tried to time your hit on a guard before he shot.
But the rest is do-able, hard, but do-able.
Mind you, playing crossbow/shield is worst, and that's a choice you made with your available equipment.
the extended range can be rough to deal with i normally see it handled by sword users with either a grenade, or patiently timed grapples to take down piston blockades and then as it powers down they grapple it and lunge before it can activate.
can you elaborate on the compass issue? sounds like you may have located a bug.
for the lunge thing that has to do with where you target, look at the edge of the block next to it to prevent the lunge, but it's treating you as having "targeted" the trap for a lunge, so it goes to that.
There have been lots of reports of input eating, on swords, shields, and guns, push button, might hear a sound or see the animation even, could even give it a cool down/reload, but won't actually go off.
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@worldnamer said:
Honestly I think people neglect that a large chunk of brutal bases are built on "Large" burial sites, and the levels are just long. Like, I could play three different levels at Dangerous difficulty for the time it takes to run one Brutal base. I'd get better GenMat, a more diverse play experience, and if I have to stop in the middle, I don't lose everything. Like, your 30 minute adventure isn't for everyone.
I do run Brutal bases but usually as a change of pace where I know what I'm getting into is long-form content. Outside of that, I tend to avoid Large burial sites at all difficulties.
there is a section of people who hunt tombs and prefer large maps because they have 3 of them. I target maps that are under 100M agressively, prefer to run things under 200. my average run is 2-4 minutes in a brutal and i don't see me running 2 dangerous in that same timeframe or 3 normals.
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@konchok said:
I have a counter proposal. Limit co-op to Brutal bases only and keep the unlimited revives.
i have a counter counter proposal, as a builder who makes brutals, give me the ability to mark an outpost as "for solo players" and prevent co-ops from coming in so i can properly balance my base for solos instead of having to run tons of fire and plasma to counter infinite revives. the opposite can be true also i don't mind, but i doubt it'd see much use.
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@worldnamer said:
Why would you disable your outposts? Why not just let them run?
because we have annecdotal evidence showing that bases only get raids if you routinely go into them every 1-2 hours. as people sleep for 6-8 turning them off overnight is advisable.
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first picture, artistic map on normal, P1 1695 genmat left, 17 raids, 490 prestiege 12 accolades
second picture, free exp map P1 182 genmat remaining, 39 raids, 1190 prestiege. 44 accolades
third picture, free exp map, P3 3505 genmat remaining, 61 raids (average 20per prestiege) 1355 prestiege. 73 accolades
this is why you aren't getting raids. i no longer am bothering to even try making anything creative. yall don't reward or play it.
i'm running multiple EXP maps in the same difficulty and they BOTH get more raids AND accolades. the playerbase is ACTIVELY avoiding challenges in favor of having things handed to them.
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they don't have the same amount of traps.
you can break into the brutal category in under 1500 capacity. and the upper limit is around 6000. the variance in brutal has led to a huge push to avoid the entire bracket due to that wide spectrum of bases.
as for the brutal AF bases you can normally filter out the majority of these experiences by avoiding maps in the brutal difficulty that have distances under 200m the longer a map the more spread out the traps (usually) when you're looking for harder content you can almost guarentee a brutal map that has a range of under 150m is some form of killbox if you are after that challenge, then if you are more combat oriented target things with high trap variety so that their top 2 defenses include either all 20 guards, or only guards in the top 2.
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@Kyslapeth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3421452#Comment_3421452
Plasma and incinerator don't need to have a straight line to be effective cause it's AOE damage but whatever, you obviously don't understand how this outpost work and this post is about EXPLOIT AND BUG not STRATEGY.
This debate is pointless I'm master 200 I know what I'm saying but you are stubborn 😪
i'm M75 i know what i'm talking about too. the difference is i enjoy the added challenge of identifying this threat and avoiding it. while you are offended by it.
@Kyslapeth said:
But you seems soooo good and better than everyone so I gonna make this outpost just for you and I gonna let you a chance to show me how it's easy for you.
Be prepare to assume your words.
your behavior and opinion won't change after i've beaten it please tell me how this benefits me in any way.
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i can't really see a situation in which i would willingly slow myself down in combat especially without the ability to control if i reel or not but i guess if some people like it. i personally wouldn't really use it.
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you'll have better luck posting on reddit. that's where the devs are.
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I do not believe the "impossible" catagory should exist. "Obscenely hard" maybe, but not impossible.
but yes we need tags for what the builder intended the dungeon to be, as well as what people who played it felt it was.
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while i dislike harvey, having him is the only thing stopping us from seeing platforming mazes with no clear route forward since there isn't a mandatory marking system to lead in the right direction. since builders are in no way rewarded for raiders COMPLETING their outpost, they have tended to leaving one palate on every single wall so there is no directional cues. as for "validation of maps" it's already been delcared behavior has no intention of doing that. and trust me, you don't want them to. the nightmare maps i'd make if i didn't have to deal with harvey are the only bases you'd see. things where having a shield is REQUIRED just to TOUCH the genmat. this isn't something behavior wants nor do i think most of the people who play (even if there are a small group of us who love that nightmare) if you don't buy the game, thats your choice. i personally am loving the hell out of it, even in it's buggy state.
there should be alternate modes that allow the changes you have suggested, it should not be the base game that everyone is required to play. they aren't good enough.
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thanks for posting this. nice to see some more people who enjoy the challenges and devious minds of builders. we love seeing you conquer our creations <3
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this can also be used responsibly to create a second path for harvey over second wave blocks that is longer than harvey's path after genmat is touched. normally harvey only walks on top of second wave blocks if it's his shortest path. but yes, when not given an alternative route it freezes harvey. i personally like the ability to cause harvey to route-change without having to make a 800 block long maze just to hide the second access point. i don't like mazes myself so prefer not to build them but if i want to use a second wave floor along the path i want harvey to walk it's maze, or 2nd wave holo above pyramid block with a little obfuscation.
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@Dreamnomad said:
You make it sound like such a small thing to do. That is actually a massive commitment to your time. Even if you are relatively quick, that's like 10 minutes out of each hour.
and it means if you aren't active and your outposts are they're burning time for minimal passive value.
edit - more and more this is sounding like "deactivate your bases if you aren't online"
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@Dreamnomad said:
This is for those of you who play Dead By Daylight (DBD). I think the rifle could pretty much be ported over and work great. It would be a hybrid ranged/melee weapon. Ranged when aiming and slashing otherwise. The melee couldn't deflect bolts or break armor and would be about the same attack speed as the crushing sword. IE weaker than both melee weapons at melee.
The ranged aspect has limited range (20ish meters) but can break armor/traps. After each shot you have to reel in your bolt. The advantage being that you will never run out of ammo, but the disadvantage being that you have limited range and the further your shot goes before hitting something requires longer to reload. If you hit a guards flesh then you'll begin reeling them in and have to finish them with a melee attack. This leaves you vulnerable to other attacks. No switching to other weapons or using equipment while reeling in bolt.
I personally think it would be a great fit! It has advantages in it's flexibility and limitless ammo, but plenty of vulnerabilities packed in to keep it balanced compared to other weapons.
how do we handle reel when it hits a corpse vs a wall, does it reel you towards target, reel your bolt back. what is the speed of reel, do you have to stand still while you reel, if no is your movement speed affected by reel. what happens if you choose to NOT reel back in.
also it seems counter intuitive to have to reel in a guard to melee them when you've already shot them in a game that has one hit death from any source.
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@Kyslapeth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3420317#Comment_3420317
Being able to destroy only 3 traps in the whole outpost when there are more than 100 seems normal to you ? No need to continue this discussion.
100 traps of anything that has range and any lethality would cost 50 base cost before mods or 5000 capacity. to make the setup requires an additional about 40 blocks each if you want the ammo to be unrecoverable which is another 4000 totaling 9000 capctiy. seeing as the highest base caps out at under 7000 that argument loses weight. on top of that, the seupt reduces the traps targeting to about 20-30% of it's full ability, heavily nerfing the trap that cost full price to place, and more to shield just to make it LESS DEADLY only so you can't get your ammo back. then, god forbid the entire base is one gimmick, you have a base full of NERFED TRAPS that see 30% of the normal stuff and have 70% of their damaging surfaces BLOCKED. which means genmat is either COMPLETELY exposed, or is at the end of a straight tunnel that you can just walk down and ignore every single trap.
also, maybe if you're seeing 100 traps like that STOP PLAYING BRUTAL. to go into the highest difficulty and they cry it's too hard is shameful.
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added data point - no i don't expereicne this and all my advisors are 100 - platform Steam PC
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3420848#Comment_3420848
I would test something like this yourself rather than relying on replay footage, which is very unreliable in terms of player positioning due to latency. They could have been closer than they appear.
Two whole blocks between (essentially a 3 block gap) does not seem reasonable.
that trap is behind a 2 block gap, 1 way door, with an acid in front. he went to the door, above the acid, and broke the trap 2 spaces away with a sword. it's repeatable.
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best advice i have is change the type of block your using. switch to stone, or glass, or hellscape. see if that works
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i've also recognized this trend but i thought it had to do with keeping your uncleaned raid count low. same outcome, different conclusion
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@Strussle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3420043#Comment_3420043
I've heard this from other people online, but I haven't found a place where a dev or rep said it. I hope it's true though.
Targeting Overdrive-ed Bases would be tight tho.
reddit AMA. devs don't post here. only staff here are power hungry mods.
edit - found the link https://www.reddit.com/r/MeetYourMakerGame/comments/1327rv3/qa_with_the_dev_team_april_2023/
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@Dreamnomad said:
I haven't seen too many things I would consider an exploit. I did encounter a tomb trap once that was literally impossible to get out of though. There was a drop down to the tomb, but there were two pyramid blocks lined up in such a way that it was completely impossible to get out of. you either had to suicide into the acid cube or abandon the mission. I consider than an exploit. There should never be a way to force a raider into that choice.
@Seraphor said:
An exploit is taking advantage of a mechanic that was not intended to be possible. Currently only two of these would appear to exist in the game, and they are; opaque second wave corrosive cubes hiding lethal traps, and one-way 'gaps' using two corner blocks. Which means only Builders are currently capable of exploits.
Raiders may be able to employ cheese strats, but these are a matter of balance, not taking advantage of exploits.
so, hitting this trap 2 spaces away with a sword through an impassible door that you (which you'll call an exploit) that you don't travel through. is this an intended mechaninc? or an exploit? cause your melee weapon not touching it, and it exploding as a result seems pretty exploity to me.
edit - for the record i'm totally fine with this interaction. it provides a reliable actionable counter to this specific layout.
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@Kyslapeth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3420060#Comment_3420060
I'm here for report a bug/exploit, not talking about strategy.
If you think this exploit is a joke and easy to complete, good for you but that's not the point.
Problem here is not the traps in the corridor but the traps on the 2 sides cause they are indestructible.
they're not indestructable, they're an economic decision. you can't get your ammo back from them and that displeases you.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3420045#Comment_3420045
An hour for no rewards, in a game where you need to grind thousands of synthite per day to keep your outposts active... hmm...
you don't find learning or getting better at the game rewarding got it. have a great life and good luck with all your negativity :)
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3419491#Comment_3419491
^ This.
Rank wasn't in the closed beta, it was added after the game was basically completed. The game was not designed around rank. My guess is someone thought it would increase player retention and didn't understand how it conflicts with the game's premise.
Bronze through Gold isn't even a competitive ranking system, it's a battlepass. It's rank in name only, but I think calling it "rank" at all is bad because the term has certain expectations and baggage carried with it. I'd rather the game call it something like "Devotion." The point of it is to encourage people to play during the season. Reward a set amount of points per difficulty level just for stealing the GenMat and let that be the end of it. Dying shouldn't matter. Reward Builders for kills and extracting GenMat from their bases. No more point loss at all.
they call it rank cause thats what they call it in DBD. and once you hit masters, you are RANKED against other masters.
the game may only have you interacting with ai controlled elements but it most definately IS player VS player. a player built the outpost and a player is attacking the outpost. the player set all positions and patrols, the player set every block. if you trying to beat that isn't a competition of minds, i'm not sure what it. i may not be able to immediately react to your raid but i can then respond to your actions after i see the replay and fight back. there is the same ebb and flow as any direct contact pvp game, the contact is just a degree removed.
i disagree with the notion that for it to be PVP it requires both people to be active at the same time. a mail correspondence game of chess is pvp even though both players are taking actions after a period of time has passed and seeing the opponents play and having time to think.
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@UnethicalOctopus said:
You bring up a good point as far as guard patrols are concerned. It only seems to work well sometimes. There are occasions where I feel like the cell to hold a guard fails to restrain them and they just walk through what should be a wall
Acid conversion traps depress me. I usually see it coming due to lack otraps or guard on the way in to grab the Genemat. I'm just like here we go again...
However the idea of not being able to return the way I entered a dungeon intrigues me.
If I am forced not to be able to return to the entrance to harrow out an onslaught of guards 😒. As much as I hate to admit it it adds the needed pressure.
Hard to pull off though because of hookshot. Double ceiling and floor is lava roof sounds expensive.
I don't know ow about anyone else, but the most pressure I feel is when a maze is really big and windy leading me to be so lost that I get a bit claustrophobic.
personally i avoid mazes like the plague. yeah i use the conversion tunnel purely to force players to go forward then i put everything behind genmat and set it up so that they can't pick apart the room without touching genmat and making the stuff behind acid, forcing them forward.
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i love looking at it but have no idea why or how to fix.
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@Kyslapeth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3419248#Comment_3419248
Firetrap has a 5 block range and as you can see on this screen (maybe not rly clear but you see a part of them on the first screen on the left side) they are 2 block behind the unpassable triangles so they cover the corridor on the 2 sides with plasma turret. Everything here is full upgrade.
Also plasma on the ground explose after behing destroy so you can't pass this with the bubble shield cause that damage perce trought your shield and the corridor is way too long. It's a 24 pistons corridor and it's not a straight line so you can't push this, and you can't go slow cause you simply can't destroy the traps. That's why it's soo hard.
Traps behind the triangles are also 1 block above the ground so you can't grenade this.
And if you think you can go out for retrieve ammo accross the wall/cell you can't cause cell and ground are doubled.
It's just pure exploit and if you try to pass this triangles you can also be softlock inside the space between the structure.
Edit : more screenshots with better view.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WB4MUWWS2DYY/20230505055141-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6PY0744EVIKT/20230505055149-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0B4OCJ2OKL1M/20230505055215-1.jpg
the map looks like a joke to be honest. and i also know the counter to the plasma fire floor, you don't. unfortunately for you i'm not willing to share the counter at this time as i'm still USING that tactic.
i also, seeing that, wouldn't have shot them. why did you?
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higher polygon count directly affects loading times.
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@UnethicalOctopus said:
Dark souls is my bread and butter, rust and ark my tea and crumpets. It will definitely hold my attention for a while.
I just wonder deep down what MYM will look like with enough TLC in the future. It definitely has potential.
If it manages to grow expontially over time it could really become a wonderful product.
My son and I have been basically playing it as though it were more like a build your own deathmatch lately. I see a lot of potential in that as well.
Or even being alerted that someone is raiding my outpost and being invited to hunt the people down in a 2v1.
That would just be amazing.
seeing builders have the option to actively defend an outpost would be enjoyable. and then if you beat all intruders you get "defense sucessful" and get sent home. raider respawns and you have to travel in again to stop it (to give them time to work before you can get in)
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@Chordyceps said:
In case it was not know already, I would like it to be known that HRV counts as a hazard. You gain the benefits of frenzy upon killing him. Killing him is justified.
killing him is also justified as a builder, my guards can have dead man switch, i already have no problem exploding my own employees
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@PinkiePie said:
False, if the builder does not kill enough he loses rank points
i've never had an issue with consistent rank loss from outposts i've built. i run normal p1-p4 then brutal champions p5+ it happens from time to time but the trend is consistently positive.
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@Amaroq64 said:
I like to build what I call "encounters". Where when they enter a room, something happens and they have to deal with it.
My favorite "encounter" is a guard in the room and a couple of Armored/Bloodlust Warmongers that sneak up behind the player. But I also like the Holocube with a Warmonger sitting inside it, and then as soon as they get close enough to dispell it, other stuff happens simultaneously, like a Hunter Boltshot that gets them if they try to sidestep the Warmonger.
how do you prevent room skipping every "encounter"
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@BillSimmons said:
As of recent my replays have mostly been slow with great caution taken around every turn. I miss the speedrunners and brave souls who'd sprint through bases, but there's nothing other than a raider's own patience pushing them to progress in an outpost, and with that lack of pressure most outposts can be meticulously peeled apart trap by trap at the raider's leisure to ensure a deathless raid.
The first idea that comes to mind is a Super Mario 300 second timer with a bonus for every unused second. The timer would scale along with difficulty and HRV path length. Any unused time bonus would counteract death(s) depending on the amount of time left when successfully stealing the genmat. If you had 0 deaths and a time bonus additional rewards would be received.
Playing safe/slow would still help guarantee that you completed the map without dying, but going fast would now be an alternate option with additional rewards if you could do so with few deaths.
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Watching slow replays and raiding slow myself to "win" the most in the eyes of the game has made both aspects of MYM less interesting.
adding guards on patrol routes/bloodlust adds that pressure. but it will actually cause the opposite, they go slower and wait out the enemies. a bonus reward for fast completion would make my personal gameplay more rewarding but would encourage speedrunning and not puzzle solving. personally i'd prefer to encourage the problem solving playerbase.
edit - there are also tricks you can do to prevent slow dismantle by building your base certain ways, but everyone just calls it a killbox and cries because they CAN'T dismantle it freely. what do you know about acid conversion tunnels?
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@chezpizza said:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1071930378148913254/1103753488527265832/image.png
This outpost was brutal! The killbox insane but after the 50th death (I think?), I realize this killbox wanted you to rush it. It didnt have pistons just plasmas, hornets and bombers from hell. That said though, after playing for a bit, a well designed killbox is brutal but a KB that is thrown to together is actually pretty easy to figure out or rush through even with pistons.
great work! always feels amazing to conquer a tough challenge and get that skill up :) keep crushing it like a boss, that dungeon won't be a problem for you in the future.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3419682#Comment_3419682
That... must have taken you at least an hour. And you got 300 synthite for it...
I wouldn't have the patience.
yeah, he also got better. but you know... you wouldn't have the patience.
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Behavior already said Verification by builder will not be added but i would love to see more details on map performance. also LET ME SEE IF ITS IN OVERDRIVE. i want to target overdrives.
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@TheYuckBucket said:
As the builder you are preparing your encounter knowing full well you wont be there to change anything once the raider enters the map. So build. if you wanna use external guards without fortifications use fliers with armor and move speed instead of the ambushers, Warbois can only work as a tank if their able to leverage their armor effectively which means limiting the raiders ability to view their back and sides until they attack.
Guards not being able to leave the outpost isn't an exploit. you should be building to utilize everything you're putting into it.
i should be able to utilize 2nd wave corrosive targeting by that logic, but everyone calls that an exploit.
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@UnethicalOctopus said:
Oh and as for new traps and mods. I like the idea of keys and doors.
Have a mod for reatures called key bearer. Red key, blue key, green key.
run a check to ensure that the keys are not blocked by the doors.
Darkness would also be a wonderful trap, cheap effective atmospheric and it gets the job done. Not absolute darkness just enough to limit the players ability to perceive incoming threats. But not to the extent that the acid trap exploit (or is that a feature...) does.
(make sure HRV can open doors without dropping 🔑)
i'd love to see doors and portcullis
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@UnethicalOctopus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3419406#Comment_3419406
Gaining new players is largely irrelevant if they cannot be retained.
i don't think the people that aren't being retained are the same breed that will be drawn in in the future. a lot of the community came from DBD and the ps+. so people who got the game free, and people who are known to come from a toxic community (myself included i know) the meta slaves like me will continue to play more or less regardless of the state of the game. but i am looking forward to the game attracting the dark souls style community.
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what is boils down to is that anything that causes a raider to "lose an ammo" is WRONG in their eyes. because giving them an economic decision as to if a trap/guard should be shot or ignored is an unthinkable trauma they can't possible be forced to endure. ammo eating traps absolutely SHOULD be part of the game, especially since they cut off over 75% of the traps firing range.
why does everything have to be super easy, and have absolutely no trade-offs for it to be valid or good? you can't get your ammo back from an optional trap that didn't block the entire walkway, that didn't have to be shot at. how is it the builders fault that you couldn't figure your way thought the puzzle without shooting that one fire that has EIGHT OF ITS NINE FLAME JETS BLOCKED. like for real. how much easier does it need to be? 8 of the flames are BLOCKED AND UNUSABLE and that's still too hard just cause you can't get your little bolt back. it's pathetic. grow up, get better, pick your shots and stop blindly pulling your trigger like you have 10,000,000 rounds. you don't have a machine gun for a reason, shots are supposed to matter.
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@UnethicalOctopus said:
The real question on my mind revolves around player retention. 🤔
i am more concerned about gaining new players than retaining the ones we have. we really need the devs to change the "punish people who succeeded cause they didn't do it flawlessly" setup they have if we want to see REAL content interaction.
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@UnethicalOctopus said:
I honestly think new suits is a definite must. Hundreds of them over the course of the games lifespan.
Asymmetrical l gameplay needs to attempt to maintain a balance between the juxtapositing sides. Something that had not adequately been addressed.
Each new mod and block issues new tools that will probably just be overlooked in favor of plasma spam.
Even just to have something for grinders to work towards, new suits will help with player retention.
Don't get me wrong new mods and traps are certainly in the works. Each must have a check to maintain the integrity of the product however.
Also, I personally need a bit of a wallet parasite in the parts department.
i also have a post about raising the cost of plasma.
but yes there is a balance issue between solo and co-op. we need a flag as to who the dungeon is constructed for. theres no way for a builder to make an outpost for it's intended audience, or for those players to search for intended content. currently it's just slop that you can look through first if you pay.