Langweilig
Langweilig
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You only have to dodge one shock and then you can unhook. It‘s not a big deal.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756748#Comment_3756748
this version of sadako is best version of sadako when not playing condemn. you get better tv teleports, lower cooldown tv's and better invisibility(once they fix the bug). those were all worse in 1.0.
The better invisibility is basically just the old reverted reikos watch and partly basekit (not really that big off a deal, maybe if they didn‘t nerf reikos watch again, then it would be good). Lower cooldowns don‘t really matter when all TVs are off. In the first version shorter cooldown would have helped a lot more than in this version and old iri video tape overshadows the reduced cooldowns. It was a lot better than all of this
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The only thing he and other killers need back is lightburn. It was a very cool mechanic.
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@appleas said:
Tapes should give debuffs when holding them if passive condemn is a no go.
Remaking the addons Rickety Pinwheel/Sea soaked Cloth/VCR to having the Survivors be afflicted with Oblivious/Blindness/Exhausted while holding the tapes would encourage players to deposit their tapes off ASAP rather than waiting till they have a high Condemn count.
Having to make choices allows for more skill expression on the Survivors' end. Interacting with Killer props should always have some kind of risk such as Pinhead's box. Regardless of whether a Survivor leaves the box, picks up the box or tries to solve the box, there is always some form of downside or risk associated with it. There isn't much risk from holding Sadako's tape so it makes sense to hold on to it until Condemn stacks get too high or a Survivor is close to being downed + hooked to deny tape destruction.
Remaking the addons Rickety Pinwheel/Sea soaked Cloth/VCR to having the Survivors be afflicted with Oblivious/Blindness/Exhausted while holding the tapes would encourage players to deposit their tapes off ASAP rather than waiting till they have a high Condemn count.
This could be a very cool additional effect to the current one of those addons. I really don‘t want them to remove the current effects.
Agree that tapes need something.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756531#Comment_3756531
the mechanic was intended to snowball you. it is the killer getting rewarded for using their power correctly and you getting punished for playing chases poorly.
I think biggest pitfall of 2.0 Sadako was actually that passive condemn was too high. This made the killer too easy to play vs average lobbies. I think there needed to be more emphasis on breaking tapes and less emphasis on teleportation. The other issue with 2.0 Sadako was tunneling condemn. ideally i wish killer was more focused on spreading condemn (4vs1 aspect) and less about tunneling 1 person to condemn them. that was the 2nd pitfall. No clue how would approach to fix tunneling.
3.0 Sadako did exact opposite. it put ZERO emphasis on tapes and put ALL emphasis on teleporting. 3.0 Sadako has no skill-cieling to condemn.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756255#Comment_3756255
the main problem with ring drawing was survivors were able to 99% heal themselves then use their med-kit to self-care. the slugging nerf just removed gameplay depth from Sadako. It is just another change that campaigns against killer slugging.
killers should have as much gameplay depth as possible with their power. Not as shallow as possible.
I think there needed to be more emphasis on breaking tapes and less emphasis on teleportation
I‘m on the opposite side: I think you should be able to play her in both ways like in her first version, where you could basically play her without condemned or go full in with condemned. Her first version just needed some buffs. I think the current version with 28m for one TV condemned, passive condemned and no TV auras would be very strong and most of her addons would automatically become better (because of passive condemned).
Her third version is a weird middle ground. It is basically her first rework in weird. Still some form of global condemned and still survivors are forced to shut down all TVs. The one thing they brought back was no tp cooldown. But I like the idea of condemned lock in even tho it isn‘t really that great. I don‘t think this version got a good teleport, because TVs are constantly turned off, but against noobs you are probably right. There you have free mobility.
Agree with 3.0 having no skill ceiling. It is all about wether or not the survivors do the counterplay and double floor maps.
the main problem with ring drawing was survivors were able to 99% heal themselves then use their med-kit to self-care. the slugging nerf just removed gameplay depth from Sadako. It is just another change that campaigns against killer slugging.
killers should have as much gameplay depth as possible with their power. Not as shallow as possible.
Agree, slugging was fine as her and she is one of the weakest killers you could slug with. If they really wana do something against it, then give survivors a faster bleed out ability by pressing a button, where they also crawl faster.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756070#Comment_3756070
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756071#Comment_3756071
I guess the developers want that every killer is the same when carring a survivor. Every killer moves at the same speed - even Nurse - and cannot use their power. If they would make an exception for Sadako, it could confuse survivors. In addition, Sadako cannot be stunned while demanifested and it could be difficult to code that she can get stunned while demanifested when she is carring a survivor.
I don‘t think this would be a problem. Even with the immunity to pallets, it would still most likely only be a gimmick (a cool one).
In general I think having different stats for carrying survivors and terror radius’s……would be cool. Pig once upon a time was faster when carrying survivors.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756455#Comment_3756455
Dramaturgy exists as dead hard for distance. Only works when healthy. Has no immunity. rng exposed instead.
Dramaturgy is only usable when healthy and it is only a slow sprint. DH was like a very fast jump forward.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756447#Comment_3756447
I'm not against the passive, I just like earned options more so. Permanent lullaby would work as well.
"I don‘t think hitting someone is something you earn the condemned for, it is something you are supposed to do as killer."
I vehemently disagree with this. Just because you're doing something you're supposed to do as killer, doesn't make it all the sudden not earned. Especially as a basic m1 like Sadako with no anti loop. If hits aren't earned, give me an example of something that is. That's as skillful as it can get in DBD as far as action rewards.
Survivors are supposed to run from and loop killers..is that now taking zero skill and not earned even if they loop the killer for 5 gens just because it's what they're supposed to do? No, that would be silly, of course it's showing skill.
I‘m 50/50 with you. Probably there is not much more skillful on the killers side, but I still don‘t like the condemned on hit. It did relatively fast snowball you out of the game as survivor and there wasn‘t much you can do. For example you grab a tape get hit, grab the next one get hit….. This was really unfair most of the time. Even as m1 killer you will eventually hit the survivor and it‘s not that difficult, especially since maps are becoming weak.
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I add pig to the list. She should at the very least see her own boxes again.
I don’t know about Sadako. It would probably be not good, because she would always focus the highest condemned person out.
For skull merchant: I simply don‘t want her to get anything. I hate this character and I think her haste stacks should be removed from her kit. Current skull merchant got far too much stuff in her basekit.
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I basically want a lot of nerfs reverted, but mostly I want circle of healing back, boons buffed and hexes buffed.
DH for distance without immunity would be awesome.☺️
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@legiondoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756403#Comment_3756403
imo with bnps perks now being introduce i believe we should have an anti bnp perk
Imagine doing an invocation just for eruption to remove it.
The game/killer: Hahaha
Honestly we don‘t need to nerf bad perks further.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3755768#Comment_3755768
I agree with this idea. I like either condemn on hit when there’s a tape on them, Ring Drawing base kit, or no lullaby when holding a tape. These give some risk to holding a tape. I like these better than passive condemn as they’re not free, the Onryo has to earn them.
I don’t think they needed to get rid of old Ring drawing. The condemn on heal was fine as an addon, especially once they made it not apply on slug pick ups.
I wouldn‘t call the passive condemned free condemned. It wasn‘t meant for condemning people, it was more like „Don‘t touch my tapes!“. I miss those times where survivors left my TVs alone. I hate that they deactivate all TVs just by doing the condemned counter.
I didn‘t really like the condemned on hit thing it felt as survivor often very unfair and as killer shure you can‘t really complain. I don‘t think hitting someone is something you earn the condemned for, it is something you are supposed to do as killer. I’m not saying the other ways are more earned.
Agree with the rest. Maybe by grabbing a tape you have a permanent lullaby, instead of removing it.
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@n000b51 said:
Or, the more the AFC bar is filled, the more you have chance to success a free hook (0 AFC ⇒ 4% chance, full AFC ⇒ 100% chance) because this requires so much facecamped time to fill it completely… and killers know how (they are not totally ignorant) to stay away just enough to avoid that when they proxy camp.
This is a great idea.
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Agree with hex:Ruin and COB (it could be higher, probably back to 200%).
Hex: Huntress lullaby: I agree with the pig part, but I don‘t know about the rest.
Eruption: No
Thwack: Would be funny.
Undone: I think you should get 1 Token for normal skill checks and 3 (or more) for failed ones.
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@VomitMommy said:
Main issue are spawns. Totem spawns are just terrible, the people who designed it had to be terrible at hide and seek growing up...
Totems next to generators, fully in open visible from half of the map etc.
I wonder wether it would be too op if the would put them between or even in bushes or in structures (like on doctors map). For them to be hidden in bushes they would need to add a lot more of them.
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Disagree. Killers with a strong chase power should be 110% or slower. For me playing around powers is far more interesting instead of playing around m1s. In tricksters case after they made him 115 it is most times more useful to go for m1s instead of going for m2s. He lost his identity.
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I agree, but they should do that alongside a boon/hex buffs update, where they also make totems less obvious.
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I think it will fail if they just take current maps, which are designed for one killer. There is no way you can do anything against two killers on current maps.
Most likely no survivors will want to play this gamemode.
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@sinkra said:
The only way BHVR will care is if survivors start quitting en masse and killer queues go up to 10 minutes. They've made it very clear they want the game to be ez mode for killers.
My killer que is already very long at daytime and increasingly more often at night as well.
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One thing I don‘t understand about Sadako is, why does she get kicked out of her ability when carrying a survivor. It wouldn‘t give any real advantage (except of being a cool gimmick.
(I post this here, because I don‘t want to make a discussion for this)
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https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/419687/did-the-devs-ever-explain-why-they-basically-made-grass-extinct-on-reworked-maps
I really don‘t like that they do that. Hiding in front of the killer in a bush is so much fun (when he doesn‘t see you and searches for you).
Maps look also way worse without it in my opinion.
Of course a 😭 for trapper.
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That is funny.
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I want light burn back, but not only for wraith.
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Pig and Sadako would be my team.
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@HolyDarky said:
Hey,
I like Sadako too and can understand the frustations.
TV RNG - For maps like Ormond, Prenn Asylum, Backwater swamp and Macmillan maps the 📺 spawns are awful. Not sure if this is progressively getting worse but me oh my. Most of my TVs are no where near gens. Maybe 3 of 7 are near a gen. Makes condemn very challenging and applying any type of pressure. If you have a main building you want to protect good luck because your tv will be 20 meters away.
Year the spawns are sometimes really bad because the game priorities chests over killeritems (TVs, Controllstations), which results sometimes in really bad spawns. I really don't understand why this is the case and I have to be honest, who ever did this, did a poorly and sloppy job and I cannot understand why this is still in the game. Sadako and Xenomorph are big licensed characters and the developers do such a poor job with their killeritems. The game should priorities killeritems over chests so these killeritems always spawn next to the Generators because what is the point of a mobilitypower when this power straight up sucks. Here are two wonderful examples: The Eyrie one is from a YTer (it's Xeno but the spawn logic goes for Sadako too) and the TV one from me:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GT9R20EEOAHN/controll.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BT5D04YSBA7T/tvs.png
2) Sadakos Demanifest ability is still terrible. Directional lullaby
gives her away, survivors can hear which direction she is coming from.
She flickers in and out too frequently giving away her position. (Due to
a bug) Her phasing in and out is inconsistent to what survivors see so
no mind gaming..(Due to a bug)They fixed the bug in the Tomb Raider PTB and it will be fixed with the next patch!
Solution - fix bugs with her power. Remove directional lullaby. Make
reikos watch base kit. (I’m aware of what they did previously)agree. Sadako has no real antiloop- or chasepower so giving her a better stealth and mindgame ability would be more than welcome. I also feel like they could make the Well Water Addon basekit.
3) Tapes - survivors snatch tapes free of charge. Tv is off for 70 seconds. My gens are popping It’s a long time to wait.
(Hear
me out. In the past when survivors would work on the generator
together, they waited for her to teleport to the TV because there was
100 second cool down for it, one survivor would run away that she would
try and chase off the generator the other survivor would hide and go
back on the generator, not fearing about the TV coming back online
anytime soon. In current sadako….as soon as the TV turns on the survivor
just takes the tape and there is a 70second cool down where both
survivors work on the generator in peace which I understand is the point
but the time I get my butt all the way over there they already know I’m
coming because of the stealth issues mentioned the above and boom gen
is already done. This is an issue and will be worse if Lara’s perk goes
into live. Not sure if they have adjusted it or not)Solution - Tapes have passive condemn. Every 30 seconds you gain a stack of condemn OR reduce tv cooldown to 60 seconds.
I disagree with your solution because this could lean in unhealthy situations where the killer can force condemn and it would be overwhelming for new players. However, I agree that survivors should get some punishment for holding tapes besides getting condemn for turning TVs off when holding a Tape. The TV cooldown should be decreased!
Agree with the Addons. I am not against meme Addons but an iridescent Addon like the Videotape should not be a meme Addon. The drawback is also way too big. They should make it a brown one and remove the +20% longer when survivors turn them off.
I really hope the developers will listen to us und give some love to Sadako - at least they should fix the spawn issue because this would also help Xenomorph and Plague and should be easy to do.
They fixed the bug in the Tomb Raider PTB and it will be fixed with the next patch!
Finally after 5 months!
I disagree with your solution because this could lean in unhealthy situations where the killer can force condemn and it would be overwhelming for new players. However, I agree that survivors should get some punishment for holding tapes besides getting condemn for turning TVs off when holding a Tape. The TV cooldown should be decreased!
Agree with the Addons. I am not against meme Addons but an iridescent Addon like the Videotape should not be a meme Addon. The drawback is also way too big. They should make it a brown one and remove the +20% longer when survivors turn them off.
Agree on both.
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@Skitten56 said:
100% agree with you on point 3. With her release version survivors wanted to avoid grabbing a cursed tape in order to protect themselves and only wanted to turn off TVs to deny her mobility at key points (as they should because you know, curses are bad). This allowed Sadako to have good map mobility.
However with the rework, now survivors are encouraged to grab tapes in order to protect themselves. This means that Sadako is hit twice with the counterplay. Survivors can quickly avoid condemn while also denying her mobility at no cost to them.This dynamic change from Sadako's release version where taking tapes was discouraged to her current version where it is encourages makes her weaker against good teams due to how it disproportionately punishes her. However as long as Sadako can spread condemn from multiple TVs, it has to be this way for balance.
My suggestion would be similar to yours, add ticking condemn back to survivors grabbing tapes, but also make it so Sadako can only spread condemn from the TV she Projects to, like she was at release. This should be accompanied but a basekit condemn range increase to at least 18m.
This would solve the balancing issue for condemn and make condemn gameplay more skillful. It wouldn't punish soloq teams but also wouldn't punish Sadako against skilled teams. I'm sure many are skeptical of release version condemn mechanics but given all the QoL buffs we have received to TV cooldown times and the like, I think it would be fine.If these changes are not acceptable to BHVR, then at the very least something should be done to punish survivors who go around turning off multiple TVs at a time given how there is little downside atm compared to how much it hurts Sadako. Maybe giving survivors 2 stacks for turning off a TV when already holding a tape would be enough to balance this compared to the current 1 stack they get.
My suggestion would be similar to yours, add ticking condemn back to survivors grabbing tapes, but also make it so Sadako can only spread condemn from the TV she Projects to, like she was at release. This should be accompanied but a basekit condemn range increase to at least 18m.
This would solve the balancing issue for condemn and make condemn gameplay more skillful. It wouldn't punish soloq teams but also wouldn't punish Sadako against skilled teams. I'm sure many are skeptical of release version condemn mechanics but given all the QoL buffs we have received to TV cooldown times and the like, I think it would be fine.That‘s all I wish for🥹 Behavior could probably go up to 24/28/32m when only one TV spreads condemned. Hopefully if they do that, they don‘t forget to remove TV auras.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Hello! Greetings! 👋🏻
Venting here - with a splash of feedback! :)
P100 sadako main. 3k hours into her.
Frustrations with Sadako here we go…….
1) TV RNG - For maps like Ormond, Prenn Asylum, Backwater swamp and Macmillan maps the 📺 spawns are awful. Not sure if this is progressively getting worse but me oh my. Most of my TVs are no where near gens. Maybe 3 of 7 are near a gen. Makes condemn very challenging and applying any type of pressure. If you have a main building you want to protect good luck because your tv will be 20 meters away.Solution - Adjust tvs to spawn closer to generators.
2) Sadakos Demanifest ability is still terrible. Directional lullaby gives her away, survivors can hear which direction she is coming from. She flickers in and out too frequently giving away her position. (Due to a bug) Her phasing in and out is inconsistent to what survivors see so no mind gaming..(Due to a bug)
The visual terror radius gives her away entirely. Survivor sees the visual terror radius, survivors are alerted of her presence, survivor listens what direction she is coming from pre runs away.
Solution - fix bugs with her power. Remove directional lullaby. Make reikos watch base kit. (I’m aware of what they did previously)
3) Tapes - survivors snatch tapes free of charge. Tv is off for 70 seconds. My gens are popping It’s a long time to wait.(Hear me out. In the past when survivors would work on the generator together, they waited for her to teleport to the TV because there was 100 second cool down for it, one survivor would run away that she would try and chase off the generator the other survivor would hide and go back on the generator, not fearing about the TV coming back online anytime soon. In current sadako….as soon as the TV turns on the survivor just takes the tape and there is a 70second cool down where both survivors work on the generator in peace which I understand is the point but the time I get my butt all the way over there they already know I’m coming because of the stealth issues mentioned the above and boom gen is already done. This is an issue and will be worse if Lara’s perk goes into live. Not sure if they have adjusted it or not)
Solution - Tapes have passive condemn. Every 30 seconds you gain a stack of condemn OR reduce tv cooldown to 60 seconds.
ADDONS - she had a few passes but there are still so many bad ones.
Iri Video Tape Copy (Reworked completely)
Distorted Photo (Remove the witnessing component)
Telephone (increase to either 4 seconds OR 4 or 5% hindered OR just increase range to 8.5 meters)
Mothers Comb (this was good for 2.0 version)
Ring Drawing (should be base kit)
Clump of hair - base kit. (It’s her power. Shouldn’t be the same distance manifested. Her stealth is already not good so this wouldn’t hurt anything)
VCR - tv auras give away the deception and confusion entirely
Well Stone - not enough to make a difference from 70 seconds.
Sea Soaked Cloth - 8 meters is too small. Also it doesn’t apply if the tv is on a hill and the survivor is slightly lower than the tv because of the hill.
Rickety Pinwheel - Same issue.
Overall do I love sadako, Yes! 🙌🏼
There’s a lot that we can still improve on though with her to make her more fluid than what she already is and she’s come so far so I am very very grateful for that ❤️📺
Thanks!I‘m still hoping to get her first version with the current buffs and QOL changes, that means no TV auras, no global condemned and passive condemned again.
Completely agree on the first one.
The second one is just sad. Why didn‘t they fix the bug for 6 months. Her flicker could be decent if it wouldn‘t get interrupted by some actions like vaulting a window or breaking pallets etc. The duration of her being visible should be shorter, so that she is more often flickering and she should be invisible for longer.
Agree on the third one, but I think 30s would be too oppressive and brings survivor too much in a loose loose situation. 40-50s would be fairer. The cool thing about passive condemned by holding onto a tape was, that you always had your TVs, which gave you full control over condemned and mobility. The only problem of her first version were only the cooldowns.
Iri tape/ring drawing: please just give us their first version back.
Agree on the rest of the addons. I would maybe merge current distorted photo and telephone. Most of her addons are just outdated.
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I don‘t understand how so many people call MFT good. Deep wounds is so annoying to play with, especially since everything becomes darker and darker. The 3% haste isn‘t even much and in most situations it doesn‘t even make any difference. Then activating it without dead hard or getting tunneled isn’t really possible.
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I don‘t like playing against it, but the perk is a really cool idea and fair. My only problem is franklins, it shouldn‘t immediately remove charges, there is no way to get your item with charges back without dying.
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@Rogue11 said:
so the few maps that have some tiles that aren't a pallet and a barrel will get nuked until every tile on every map is "killer walks around the short side of the loop once and gets a free hit"?
I‘m really not looking forward to this. I just wait for the 2 vs 8 mode and then I will never touch this game as survivor again as long as they continue to make this game unfair for survivors while overbuffing killers.
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@MrPenguin said:
As others have said, you think Gideon and Badham are "fair". So basically your version of "fair" is "very survivor favored".
Also didn't they make the main building even stronger on Garden in the rework? Iirc that was widely considered a failed rework because the problem they wanted to fix they made worse instead.
But you've only been playing for a year. No offense but imo this just reflects that as this sounds like the words of someone whose not experienced/skilled and doesn't understand the game well enough yet. Which tend to lean more on the survivor side since at lower levels of play survivors struggle more than at mid levels.
The classic dbd answer („skill issue“), that goes also back to whoever says it. I get quite good survivors and killers as opponents, sadly we don‘t have a ranked system to just show a picture or something.
You all musst always only get 0ks, because survivors are that undefeatable, but still the stats say otherwise. Killer is not difficult and a lot easier than survivor.
On garden of joy they nerfed basically everything except of main, shack and car park. The maze tiles most times don‘t even have a window now.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750995#Comment_3750995
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ML66QC2MX2ZL/image.png
Oh well guess I did indeed tell you those reasons like 4 times… Here is just one example… Nice try shifting the blame here…
That is once again such a great assumption, people that have a certain opinion must be killer mains, there is no other reasons for that… And funnily enough in that post I screenshotted here, I already told you that it is ridiculous to ignore peoples opinions and reasonings with the assumption of them being killer/survivors mains and you just did it again :D:D This is hillariously bad ^^
And as a little goody, here is the time before that post above where I already told you some reasons why the map is not fair ;)
In Main you should not break the one door that connects to the window in the front. Otherwise dealing with main doesn‘t take much time since they are imprisoned in main and only got 2 pallets.
The normal looking houses are basically weaker TL walls, which can easily be dealt by breaking the walls. The basement houses are not too strong either. Getting rid of the pallets is not difficult. Having many connected tiles is not a problem at least for me as killer, but I know you will think of all the excact opposite way than I do. Agree to disagree. Most killers really don‘t struggle against those loops in my matches either.
It doesn‘t really make sense to nerf maps further when killers are so different in strength. When they would nerf all killers to roughly be b or c tier then they could also nerf maps to the same degree. How are survivors supposed to deal with a killer, that the new/reworked maps are simply to weak for!
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750951#Comment_3750951
You always just say bedham is fair and never explain why, you get presented with reasons for why the map is extremely onesided and the opposite of fair, but I don't see any counter arguments as to why your opinion is the correct one, this just feels like talking against a wall, you just have this "Bedham is fair" dogma and nothing changes that and you don't even try to reason why this is not supposed to be the case. So if that is how it s then it is just pointless to argue with you about anything, because you don't even try to make a logic argument against it, you just repeat that one phrase.
You did also not explain why this map is unfair either. How do you expect me to show that it is fair? I won‘t start a YouTube channel for you.
My matches there are pretty even when playing this map on both sides. I got no problem as killer and not as survivor there.
You are just doing the exact same as I do. You just say something is like it is and believe everyone thinks that way. I know that most people don‘t think like me, especially since only killer mains respond here and majority of people in this forum are killer mains.
Even when things are fair in this game, killers would always ask for more and survivors to be worse. Killer is in the best state it has ever been and killers still want more and more and ….
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What's wrong with a 50/50? That's balanced for both sides. Most maps in general have too many loops that the pallet is forced break, encouraging boring/no counter play pre drop game play. Many loops once the pallet is thrown makes like a 70/30 skew in the survivor favor where the loop is generally unplayable as killer and forcing a pallet break unless the survivor just plays ridiculously bad. We need loops that are more realistically playable once the pallet is down.
I talked about the pallets where as soon as the pallet is dropped it doesn‘t matter how good you play as survivor, because the killer can just lunge around it. Both sides should be able to play them and not only the killer. The table in raccoon’s main entrance room is a very fair loop. It could be a tiny bit smaller, but over all fair. Those loops on the cinema map are just unfair.
There isn't a single map that is currently too small. Most maps are way too large. Coal Tower is the perfect size and what most maps should emulate. Small maps encourage player interaction. Hold W is such a boring and zero counter play interaction that is encouraged when maps are too large.
Just to name some: New Borgo map, old Borgo map, haddonfield, the one cooldowns map with only shack.
The killers that suck are not currently performing good.
According to the last official kill rates no killer got less than 55% kill rate, which is a higher chance to get a kill for the killer than to escape as survivor. That does not mean. That I‘m against killer buffs. I‘m only against the idea of marking maps trash and buffing killers at the same time. At some point they got to nerf killers when all maps are trash.
Yes I agree the strength of maps has been decreasing over time as historically they were
wildlytoo strong so we've been on a constant path towards evening them out. Obviously perfect balance would never happen, that's a given. However we can get the game to a state where that balance discrepancy is significantly smaller, as we have been working towards.I just mean the last year with that. Before the COH nerf this game was in a very good spot. They only needed to give killer the anti boon perk basekit and it would have been fine.
About killer, soloq and swf sided. Why do killers expect to win everything? Shure everyone wants to win, that’s obvious, but when the killer and the survivors are at the same skill level, survivors should always win. What even would be the point of survivor, when you can’t win? So it is only obvious, that the game is survivor sided at the best against the best. In that case the perks, killer strength, the map or „strategy’s“ decide, who wins. You can‘t really expect to kill always 3/4 people.
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@Blueberry said:
The reason you see more survivor sided maps being pulled the other way is the fact that most maps are survivor sided. Very few maps are killer sided.
The thing, when we talk about stuff like Tier lists and which sided maps are, is that the strength level of maps is decreasing for a very long time already. So there won‘t be any time where maps will be balanced and not survivor or killer sided. So obviously there will always be survivor sided maps, but the difference is that you can have current haddonfield as survivor sided map in a few years or current badham. I will gladly take current badham as balancing stand point for both sides instead of haddonfield.
It’s obvious that people will complain about badham, when it is stronger than the other maps, but it is a fair map. Not like haddonfield. On haddonfield it doesn‘t matter how well you play, same on rancid, Borgo realms and temple of purgation.
As killer you can always improve and get better, but as survivor you are pretty limited. At a certainty point it only comes down to maps and perks, but we all know behavior won‘t give us any good survivor perks in the near future. Then they should decide either to buff killers or rework maps to be easier for killers, but not both. This just makes the game unfair. From what I‘m seeing they will overbuff Singu next update and for knight, I don‘t know wether it is a buff or nerf. Shure there are killers that currently suck compared to the others, but even they are performing pretty good currently.
I fail to see what is skill about the new maps:
- getting hit at a rigged 50/50 pallet, where the killer got nothing to do besides waiting for the pallet drop or hitting you through pallets, because of bad internet. New maps mostly only got rigged 50/50 pallets and not even enough of them.
- Then the new maps got almost nothing to work with, because simply nothing spawns. What are survivors even supposed to do, when there is nothing. Am I only loading in a match for the killer to have his fun or to be bored as killer.
- Weird maze tiles, which are so different to all others, that you can‘t know where the pallet/window is (Borgo/Garden of joy), if there spawns a window at all. This in the end forces you to play windows of opportunity to even stand a chance.
- Maps got so small, that you can‘t work on gens or hide from the killer. Besides that they don‘t look good, when they are too small.
- Too little/less bushes or grass to hide in is a problem, when they remove them alongside all recourses
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750703#Comment_3750703
They are not balancing the game around top players, what makes you even think that?
How about instead of buffing killers so they can deal with god pallets we don't create a map that has basically no windows but 25 god pallets? That is far easier than reworking half the killer roster…
To just ignore peoples reasonings by calling them kiler/survivor main is ridiculous… The reason why bedham is not far is because all 4 structures are very strong and safe, filler tiles spawn in a way that makes them interconnectable with shack or other strong structures. This leads to the map heavily favoring survivors, the map is not fair in that sense.
The argument to just say people only know how to play on weak maps is also ridiculous, given that most maps are not weak… So for some reason people only get the 4-5 maps that heavily favor killer all day long? Or how else do you only get used to that?
Again, there is like a hand full of maps that are problematic, but many maps are just fine, mcmillan and azarovs are mostly fine, coldwind is mostly fine except for rancid, despite the last few times I played the deadzones were basically non existant… However bedham still has the old cowshed syndrom of spawning strong tiles connected and I hope we can at least agree that old cowshed was busted and not fair, and for the same reasons that map was busted bedham is still busted.
I just say we disagree here.
I did not play at that time of old cowshed or I just begun playing before they removed it and didn‘t notice it therefore. So I can‘t say wether it was OP or Ok.
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Maps are not only playable as comp players, but people need to learn to be more conservative with the ressources, and if they cannot do that then they will die, that is only fair.
I don't think it changed, I think it is still the case, a lot of maps still have very strong fillers, people are just way too wastefull with them.As long as they don‘t introduce some kind of working rank/trophie system and give me the biggest noobs/dicks as teammates they should not balance their game around the top players.
Sure the map becomes empty once you kicked 25 pallets, but at that point the game is over two times anyway, so what does it matter… If you play an m1 killer without a stealth ability on this map you will not see much land until you kicked like 10 pallets, which is a reason why the map is so terrible.
I don‘t think the killers, who struggle on this map will have to wait long to receive the buffs necessary for this. It would be a problem if they buff those killers and make this map trash/weaker. I‘m calling it trash, because all reworks were trash last year.
That would require maps to be roughly the same strenght to say that bedham is fair under that system where all maps don't have much of a difference in escape rates, but they do and bedham is one of the strongest survivor maps out there. The map is by no means fair. Like no offense, but maps being to killer sided leading to the feeling of being unwinnable is not limited to one side, that can apply for the kiler as well as for the survivor side. Well there was also balanced and when you read through the comments you will see that many people thought it to be on the more extreme side balance wise, also you can somewhat go by the percentage… The clearer it is that the map is onesided the bigger the percentage, and 80% is quite a lot.
You wana know for what I would have voted by badham: Survivor sided, but it does not mean it is unfair. So many killer mains are used to play against survivors on weak maps, of corse they will struggle when all they know is rancid, Borgo, haddonfield… This map is by no means unwinable and there are no such maps for killers, killers just no longer know how to play on fair maps, because they are not used to them. The comments don‘t mean anything in this forum. Most people here are killer mains and killer mains are crying a lot more in this forum than survivor mains. Before you ask I‘m reading this forum for while now for amusement and it‘s sometimes very hilarious what killer mains (also survivor mains) write in here. Shure there is also the extrem in here about survivor mains (weave attunement).
My hope how they solve the map issue: They should make the weaker killers viable and stronger, but stopp with making new trash maps or reworking them into trash for survivors. Otherwise they soon have to nerf the majority of killers or give survivors OP abilities.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750662#Comment_3750662
Nah man, the map looks boring like the most generic container level, boxes everywhere, yeah yeah fan service whatever I don't care the map is boring. Sure you can try to mindgame stuff, but if the other side is sentient on 9/10 tiles on this map you will not be able to force a hit, I can think of at least 10-15 pallets on this map that you just need to kick as an m1 killer, because any player that has a rough idea of what he is doing can just sit on the other side when it is dropped and vault it back and forth and you will never get a hit.
Those mentioned maps all suck in that regard, just in the opposite direction, the game has too many safe pallets and those maps have too few, which is why a middle ground should be achieved.
No, I don't think haddonfield is fair, but that is not the point. You do have to explain everything because your opinion is very far away from generally agreed on and basically nobody argues in that direction. Like 3 months ago we had this whole mapping the realm thing where the community got asked what they think about each map, and more than 80% thought that bedham was extremely survivor sided. So since your opinion is far off from mainstream and people in that post offered a lot of reasons why they think the map is not balanced you would need to put in quite some effort to outmanuever their arguments, fairly simple isn't it?
Yeah, no buddy, this is not another us vs them argument, the game does not necessarily favor one side over the other, both sides have stuff that is pretty bs, does not mean that everybody has only their own gain in mind. I don't like the game because the map is full of safe tiles, I don't like Haddonfield because before the rework those god windows were busted and now the map is super empty, guess what I want a balanced experience.
Except for maybe 4-5 maps most of them have everything a good survivor needs to run the killer, it is just that most survivors are not good, they don't preserve the ressources on the map, they don't fake the pallet drop or whatever, they just burn through the ressources and then complain that the map is empty… Which is btw. another point why Gideon is a garbage map, once the pallets are gone it is one of the most empty maps in the game, god I hate this dogwater map with a passion.
You know how this whole Tier lists and map sides stuff works? Even when all maps would be balanced and fair, no one would say „ah they are fair“. People would still put them on both sides, which would be fine if they were fair and gues what: badham is a fair map, but compared to all other maps just stronger. I hope you get what I mean. Something being one sided does not mean necessarily something bad, but some maps that are killer sided in dbd are generally unwinable against decent killers. This means only most people agreed, that this map is compared to all other maps of the game, in other words conpared to haddonfield, survivor sided. Also to stay with facts there were only the options between the survivor and killer side. There was nowhere written „extremely“ survivor sided.
Nothing what I‘m saying is us vs them, I‘m only extremely unhappy how they treat the game I like. Shure it‘s their game and I won‘t be able to do anything against it, but it feels bad how they make this game constantly worse for me. What I‘m saying is just how I feel about it and my friends I‘ve played with, before they quit.
Shure most survivor players are bad, but then it doesn‘t help to make maps only playable as comp player, who plays 24/7.
„Except for maybe 4-5 maps most of them have everything a good survivor needs to run the killer“
That changed a long time ago
„another point why Gideon is a garbage map, once the pallets are gone it is one of the most empty maps in the game, god I hate this dogwater map with a passion“
That‘s one of the reasons why it is actually killer sided, when you play it right.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750650#Comment_3750650
And Id argue that Exhaustion perks do help with awful map RNG.
Sprint Burst can help you get out of a deadzone, and is especially helpful on maps where Generators are located in deadzones. Balanced Landing can make a lot of loops that were not playable into more playable loops (e.g. Coldwind Harvester). And this is just to name a few examples.
Likewise Stealth Perks can help with outright preventing a chase, which can be extremely helpful on maps with awful RNG since avoiding chases can preserve resources for you and your team. Boon: Shadow Step is incredibly underrated for this, especially on multi-level maps, since it applies an area for stealth for your team.
And probably the best thing of all…
Map Offerings… Just bring a Map Offering… Youll never have to worry about a Killer-sided map if you never go there to begin with.
And Id argue that Exhaustion perks do help with awful map RNG.
Sprint Burst can help you get out of a deadzone, and is especially helpful on maps where Generators are located in deadzones. Balanced Landing can make a lot of loops that were not playable into more playable loops (e.g. Coldwind Harvester). And this is just to name a few examples.
Partly true. Shure they help, but not really that much and they can easily get denied by fearmonger and the new crow perk from Verna.
Likewise Stealth Perks can help with outright preventing a chase, which can be extremely helpful on maps with awful RNG since avoiding chases can preserve resources for you and your team. Boon: Shadow Step is incredibly underrated for this, especially on multi-level maps, since it applies an area for stealth for your team.
Stelthing is in most situations not really good. When the killer comes to you, you can‘t run somewhere otherwise you are giving away your position by scratch marks. This means if the killer just searches a small area around gens, he will probably find you if you are not gone already. The problem with stealth is, that if you do it well, your teammates will be found and will die insanely fast. Boons in general are not worth the effort. Shadow step is good don‘t get me wrong, but there are so many flaws with boons in general. Probably behavior will gutt those perks sooner or later since they always gutt perks if killers(/survivors) complain enough. Most newer maps/reworks are also stopping to make maps good for stealth. They don‘t have dark places, they remove bushes and grass, make them smaller, which also means less places to search.
Map Offerings… Just bring a Map Offering… Youll never have to worry about a Killer-sided map if you never go there to begin with.
I wonder how long that will be possible. They only need to rework the last few fair maps left and then this won’t help anymore or maybe they remove map offerings after already countless complains.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750637#Comment_3750637
If you like looping, then why do you like Gideons? You are not looping on this map, you are not mind gaming or greeding pallets you safe drop every single pallet, because there is no reason not to do that, there are just so many of them, there is no reason to be ressourcefull and greed, there is no hiding your light as killer or moon walking, most of the pallets on this map have high visibility so you just see the killer all the time… All that combined is another reason why this map is absolute dog water, there is not much gameplay, it just kick pallet go next, unless the survivor is an absolute baby you will never outplay a loop on this map as m1 killer, I cannot take people serious who tell me this map is fair… There are even several occassion where even with spirit fury you still wont get the hit because the next pallet is just that close, the map is absolute garbage, and even from a visual standpoint it is basically just a container level, lowest of low efforts.
First of all this map looks great. You would wonder how many things you can mind game and what you can all do on this map. It does a lot of things a lot better then most maps.
You can loop very well on this map even when most pallets are safe. This map has much more potential in looping than rancid or haddonfield or the new map.
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750639#Comment_3750639
"Bedham is a very fair map."
Ok, you just lost the rest of the little credibility you had by calling that map fair… Either we have completely different understandings of what fair means or your perception is off… So again explain me how a map with up to 5 connected pallets to shack, 4 strong buildings and around 18-25 mostly safe pallets is fair :D:D
As for most maps remain unchanged, that is indeed true… What is even your point here? Since they updated the maps some years ago they barely touched them.Why do I have to explain everything to you? You are probably someone who thinks haddonfield is fair, am I right? Shure I‘m not thinking like the main stream and I‘m annoying a lot of killer mains with my strances, but why is no one talking about how unfun and unfair this game has become for survivors. All my friends, that I‘ve played with quitted this game, because it only tries to please killers.
I would probably main survivor, but it‘s such a 🤮🤮🤮experience, that I only play killer and while I only get hight prestige survivors and good players, it is so boring, because there isn‘t much they can do on most maps. There are only a few maps left, where this game actually is challenging, fair and fun for me.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750446#Comment_3750446
Probably because Bamboozle and Spirit Fury have conditional effects that make them counterable.
- Spirit Fury is useless if the Survivors pre-drop a pallet (and it requires Enduring to actually be good, which means you are using 2 out of your 4 perk slots.
- Bamboozle only affects 1 window for a limited amount of time, and is just countered by leaving the loop or playing the pallet instead of the window.
A perk to just outright "create" a structure would be busted.
- The game is not designed around creating windows out of thin air, and it could easily lead to infinite loops being created. Plus windows are infinitely reusable, there is not risk of the Killer removing that structure for the rest of the game… surely it is not hard to see how this would be busted?
- Pallet creation would also be insanely strong, it would fundamentally change everything about resource management. Any Means Necessary is the closest we will ever get to that just because it is balanced around the idea that the resource can still be outright removed.
It entirely has to do with DBD's fundamental design direction.
Bamboozle only affects 1 window for a limited amount of time, and is just countered by leaving the loop or playing the pallet instead of the window.
Most maps don’t have enough loops to just leave and go to the next one nowadays.
I just wanted to make clear with this, that survivors have no way to deal with bad maps, while killers can. I just took the first idea I could think about the opposite purpose.But I think it could work. There could be blocked windows at the start of the match, which can be opened by perks or some type of new item or something else like a basekit mechanic. Rebuilding pallets could also work as some form of slowdown for the killer, where you need to collect something or do something for it either with a perk or basekit. Both things would be needed to be implemented fair and carefully by behavior, but I don‘t think they would ever take the risk of testing something like that.
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@TheRealConsent said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750628#Comment_3750628
Most of the maps remain unchanged, the list shifts barely if at all. Badham 1-5 still are absolutely a nightmare for killers.
And no, there's no "side" maps should have. They should be balanced.
They should be survivor sided or nothing sided, but never killer sided. Killers got all they need to deal with maps like badham. Badham is a very fair map, but most killers expect everything to be a easy win button for them, not to be actually fair (haddonfield…).
Most of the maps remain unchanged
That‘s simply not true.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750615#Comment_3750615
So if we, for the sake of it, ignore the part where we disagree about the map being not survivor sides because it is loaded with god pallets… Is it good design to have almost exclusively non mindgameable loops that you just need to walk around until the pallet gets dropped and then leave? Even then it is still a completely stupid map.
I like this map, so obliviously I will find it good. I don‘t think it‘s bad gameplay honestly, I like challenges as killer and I like looping on both sides. So why should I dislike this map? Shure it can be frustrating at times, but this map is fair and brings this game some fresh air by being different. I don‘t want maps to play all the same or be unfair.
When we look at the cinema map (that only got trash pallets) even Hawkins looks great. I really dislike how they treat maps recently. Since I started playing all they did was shrinking maps, removing a lot of windows and pallets, buffing killers (mostly) and nerfing survivors.
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@TheRealConsent said:
Yeah, except there are 3 super Killer sided maps, and 6 super survivor sided maps.
Actually, I'll just reference Otzdarva's website for good measure:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZIE2Y86AAT4C/image.png
You see the imbalance in the amounts?
All maps should be survivor sided or nothing sided, but killer sided maps should not exist at all. Survivor can‘t do anything on killer sided maps except of hoping that the killer gives them the win, is bad or plays chil.
Survivors also don‘t have anything to deal with bad maps unlike killers.
Then you can‘t continue buffing killers while nerfing maps. Thisway you overbuff killers. If that continues most people will stop playing as soon as behavior goes too far with this.
What I find funny that even this shows that Gideon is killer sided. Thanks for that one.
This list is extremely outdated by the way!! It‘s from two years ago or at least 1 and a half years ago and much changed since then. Funny.😂😂😂😂
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@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750474#Comment_3750474
…Okay, but your problem about claiming that this map is killer sided is that every example you used is either a killer that ignores/hits over pallets, or a killer with a build to negate pallet stuns and break pallets. So of course Pallet Town is very favorable in those conditions. If the survivors bring The Game and I happened to be running Bubba or Nemesis or Spirit Fury/Enduring/Hubris or Impossible Skillcheck Doctor, yeah, I'm laughing to myself because they just played themselves.
But the killer can't choose what their build is by the time a map is loaded. And your average M1 killer with an average build is beyond screwed there unless the survivors are potatoes. Try playing Pig there without Spirit Fury/Enduring and come back and tell me it's still killer-sided.
Like… by that logic, Midwich is survivor sided because I'm playing Artist and can't check gens on both floors at once, and then I have to walk across the map to be in a position to check the other floor. Obviously that's complete nonsense, because most killers are playing in extremely favorable conditions in Midwich and it's disingenuous for me to cherrypick an example where its compact build doesn't help me.
It‘s still a fair map. Easy to travers, easy to find people and a lot of pallets. You only need to get some pallets out of the way fast and you got a easy match. The dumbest thing you can do on this map is trying to mind game, but once you realize this, it‘s ezzz.
Those examples just make this map extremely easy. Onryo/Trapper/hag/legion/clown and stealth killers have a good time on this map. After looking the at all killers we got, most of them actually have a good time on this map. The thing in current dbd is just; killers expect maps to be like haddonfield.
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Yes, if you don‘t play it stupidly and don‘t overchase survivors. Many killers really shine on this map: Nemesis, Huntress…
Once the main pallets are gone survivors got nothing and it isn‘t too difficult to archive that.
You should go there as pig with enduring and spirit fury for once. You will see this map with other eyes.
This map is actually killer sided if you know how to play it.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750453#Comment_3750453
OK, which maps do you think are that killer sided that they need changes?
I wrote them above. I think they were very obvious.
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@lettuchia said:
bhvr will probably refrain from changing indoor maps to satisfy the "wholesome jumpscare" crowd unfortunately, I really wish they would tho
I like all indoor maps, they are my favorite type of map and very cool. I think Midwich, Gideon and Hawkins are all fair even tho they all favor one side a bit more than the other. Larry‘s is not really favoring on side in my opinion.
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@Archol123 said:
Garden of Joy is still really strong, do you seriously consider it to be killer sided?
Shelter woods got buffed to be a bit more on the survivor side than before, so to say only survivor sided maps get changed is just wrong.
Since I started playing one year ago there hasn’t been one positive map change for survivors.
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Killers at the very least got perks to help them with maps, but survivors have nothing like that. There is no pallet/ window creating perk, which would be the opposite of Bamboozle or spirit fury.