Laluzi
Laluzi
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- Laluzi
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What would that actually accomplish as a grief, though? Wasting the killer's offerings and addons? I guess it's the same as 'bing bong your item is gone' Franklins killers who immediately DC, but I think most players would be more nonplussed than angry to have four survivors instantly fall down and end the match. Like… that's pretty funny.
Not that I'm mourning the finisher mori PTB. Please let it stay buried.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751363#Comment_3751363
Try reading below my 2 first lines of text.
I did. You accused the OP of being in a bully squad and/or being bad, then said 'but it doesn't matter because killers also face BM.' You also invoked 'but sometimes you have to bleed out survivors', which has been discussed to death on this thread already as obviously not what the OP or anyone here is talking about. Killers who go into the game wanting to bleed out survivors have nothing to do with killers who are forced to bleed out due to survivors running anti-hook builds or hook deadzones. You also somehow managed to blame this on survivors, and suggested that perk loadouts should be dedicated to anti-slug builds as if a.) perks should be required to protect against BM and not, you know, playing the game, and b.) as if one pop of Unbreakable will actually save you from a killer who's determined to bleed out the entire team, because it absolutely will not. Unless you're suggesting we should all run No Mither?
So. No. I'm not exactly convinced.
Once more, I raise 'people wasting each other's time to BM shouldn't be a thing in this game for either side' and ask you to either admit BM is bad and neither side should be able to waste each other's time like this, or admit you want to keep it around for whatever asinine reason.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/419012/so-this-isnt-reportable
No gens done?
Did you go all in as a bully team?
At least 1-2 gens should be done when the killer get the first down, if you play normally, -especially on Midwitch.
I would love to see a full screenshot with your perks and items, that you left out of this one.
Also its only 4 minutes, killers endure time dragging in 80% of the games they loose.
I hope you realize that blaming the survivors for the killer BMing them is as stupid as blaming a killer because they must have done something wrong when they get tbagged at the gate. Accusing them of being in a SWF and bullying the killer is some next level nonsense.
People in this game are #########. It's really not rare to encounter it.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
Thanks for the answers everyone. I appreciate them all. Okay so question:
From a Survivor POV, does the game feel more fun when the Killer leaves hook wide open? Or is it more fun if you don’t know whether the Killer may or may not come back to hook? I mean, different things for different people for sure. But I do still wonder what players prefer.
When I’m playing Killer I tend to leave the hook massively unguarded. It conditions the Survivor team into thinking unhooks are safe. Unless I’m really trying to play mind games with the Survivors I never cash in on it. But I do sometimes wonder, do any of these Survivors find it boring that I’m pretty much giving free unhooks?
I like it when the killer leaves hooks wide open, I get comfy thinking they're playing nice, and then Devour Hope pops up.
I like having hooks left wide open, it's very polite, but variety is the spice of life and all.
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I agree, but I also think the update that made prestiging characters automatically distribute their perks across everyone, and P3 giving everyone the perk at max level, helped quite a lot with this.
Of course, this game is a wretched nightmare to pick up as a new player, but that was already the case with the hundreds of dollars worth of DLCs and iri shards being such a slow grind.
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While this can be eyeroll worthy… you never know if that player has some 4k rift challenge up, if they're adepting, if they're going for an achievement, the works. Yesterday I was going "what the feck is this guy's problem" at a Wraith who brought a mori and was tunneling a Mikaela like his family was being held hostage. Played that match pretty pissed… and in endgame chat, I went 'dude, what did Mikaela do to you' and he apologized and said he had a mori daily.
Sometimes it do be like that. And when it doesn't… well. Always next game.
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Oh, good, it's not just me. I've been booted from a few matches this week, and my internet (or Steam) was up for all of them.
It might be a traffic-based issue, given the event.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751248#Comment_3751248
It has strategical value when there is not all of them, it isn't when there is four of them, surely
I suppose this is about literally guaranteed situation though, which is four bleedout for killer and four in gate for survivor, in this comparison killer will lose their "guarantee" with hooking
Yeah, that's pretty much it. There's no value in four survivors together at a gate and there's no value in slugging four survivors unto bleedout (with one exception of 'boon unbreakable is nearby and you have to keep slapping everyone down', but in that case survs are going to start crawling apart and timing their popups so you should hook some anyway. Or kill the boon.)
When people say that slugging has strategic value, they're talking about different scenarios with different intents, which is why I brought up the example I did.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751237#Comment_3751237
It's exactly same because both is just wasting times, Hell, killer slug is more justifiable because sometime hooking can net in losing, it has strategical value
Staying on gate doesn't
Staying at gate has strategic value too. As a survivor, I won't leave until I know that all survivors are accounted for, or that my leaving would enable the last player to find hatch (and that I couldn't help them otherwise - ex, I'm injured, they're being chased across the map.) If I leave, I can't unhook my teammates or take a hit. Even if I make the killer come hit me out, that can potentially buy time for another survivor to heal or reach the other gate.
But that's generally not what people are talking about when they complain about survivors waiting at the gate. Same as survivor bleedout. In cases where the killer can't hook someone, survivors can crawl towards a hook - I've found most killers in that situation will oblige you, because they don't want to be stuck watching the timer any more than you do. The ones who leave you on the ground anyway are just doing it to be jackasses.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751234#Comment_3751234
You ultimately have to choose one, though
If I had to choose between slightly less "fun" and complete removal of pure waste of time, I'd choose latter with no question
Hm. I know where you're coming from, and I agree with that, but I don't agree that you do have to choose. Again, letting players leave the match without penalty once certain criteria that a match is lost have been satisfied would prevent BMers from being able to hold players hostage without scuppering the scraps of positive player culture DBD has. The finisher mori established such criteria, but didn't ask whether anyone agreed the match was over, and inadvertently buffed the hell out of slugging as a result.
Like… let the killer leave when exit gates are open, let survivors replace themselves with a bot if they're downed in a 1v2 or everyone else is incapacitated (downed, hooked, dead), and let players with afk crows lose collision. There. Finisher mori's no longer required.
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I mostly didn't like the finisher mori system because it killed slug races, mori photobombs, and gifting hatch. Also sometimes I get in a fight with the last survivor in a friendly match, because they want to sacrifice themselves for me and I want them to escape, and it'd remove my ability to yeet a survivor out the gates.
If the mori was optional, it'd be okay... but then that undoes the point of ending the match. The unlimited Unbreakable was a hard no, though. Horrible idea. There are far simpler and less disruptive ways to deal with endgame BMing.
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@bornagain234 said:
Its as reportable as 4 healthy survivors sitting at the end of the exit gate teabagging until the last microsecond is.
Whataboutism like this always annoys me because… yes. That's also stupid. That also shouldn't be a thing. Killers should be able to force end or at least leave the match once gates are open and BHVR's weird insistence that it's not hostage-holding so long as it eventually ends serves no purpose but to enable BM.
So with that out of the way, what's your actual stance on whether or not BM is bad? Because IMO, 'you can do it to me too' is a terrible reason to not do anything about players griefing each other.
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@H2H said:
Sure let’s give survivors even more basekit second chances and put even more restrictions on how killers are allowed to play. This will definitely solve all the problems this time.
This has nothing to do with second chances. Nobody is arguing that survivors should be able to save the match at this point. It's about players wasting each others' time for the specific and sole reason of being a jackass, and how maybe that shouldn't be a thing. Boil Over RPD Library didn't win matches but it sure dragged them out, and we all agreed that was garbage. The only 'restriction' we're talking about here is griefing. What exactly do you think is preserved by leaving killers the right to sit around humping and nodding at survivors for four minutes after they've lost the game?
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751128#Comment_3751128
Exactly this. Slugging in general is a totally fine game mechanic.
However, bleeding out for 4 minutes is just griefing at that point. I don't think it should be bannable because support is already pretty swamped, and that doesn't solve the issue either. There needs to be a measure taken to mitigate how much time this can waste.
What if, when slugged, you were allowed to exit the match and replace yourself with a bot (without DC penalty or losing match earnings) if everyone else is also downed/hooked/dead, or if it's a 1v2? That way killers don't lose slugging for the 4k, but the survivor doesn't have to stick around for it, and slugging to bleed everyone out is pointless because your hostages will just leave you with bots.
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@Hexonthebeach said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/418998/scp-in-dbd
What SCP stand for?
Special Containment Procedures. It's an unowned, community sourced horror project where different users write up creepypastas that are contained/observed within a spec-ops facility and all of it is technically canon. Some of them are pretty good, others are ridiculous.
I'd imagine it would be difficult for BHVR to use the SCP Foundation, because it's an IP without a licenseholder. It's… probably? technically free-for-all-use, but the lack of centralization would mean it can be associated with things they don't want it to. Easier to just make a vaguely SCP-inspired original chapter (like… The Unknown.)
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I'm a 'wherever the bloodpoint incentive is' main, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but my favorite match is one where I get to do a bit of everything. I don't like only being chased. I don't like only sitting on gens. And I run a heal build most of the time, so I like being able to do unhooks and frickin' nyoom up that heal bar before the killer can even come back. I'm happy if I pull off a good play that buys time for my team to do something crucial. I dislike being slugged for the 4k or because the killer wants to bleed everyone out, but otherwise don't care about slugging; it's mostly just a 'this match is over, let me leave' situation. Camping is more of an eyeroll than anything else nowadays. Tunneling (deliberate 3v1-two-minutes-in tunneling, not just incidental 'I found you twice in a row' type stuff) annoys me most and I'll drop whatever I'm doing to interfere with the attempted tunnel. And obviously I want teammates who don't kill themselves on hook, don't throw the match because they have flashlights for brains, and don't hide half the game and barely do anything. Few things are more annoying than taking chase for a minute and a half and nobody touching a gen in that entire time.
And whether I escape or die horribly, I have a lot more fun if the killer has a sense of humor - stopping to headshake if I screw up a play, 'heck was that' staring when there's a bug or a teammate does something bizarre, slow turns from blastmine or to a locker, acknowledging mori photobombs, etc. I don't expect it, it's pretty rare, but it's always a fun bonus that automatically makes me enjoy a match pretty much no matter what else happens in it.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750945#Comment_3750945
The killer might've been destroyed by a bully squad in the previous game, so it's understandable why they would do this. The source of all toxicity in DbD are SWFs.
I mean, that's technically true - it's understandable. But anyone could tell you that doesn't make it okay, and taking your frustrations out on an unrelated group of randos who hasn't done anything wrong to you is a.) unfair and b.) just perpetuating misery along.
Your claim that the source of all toxicity in DBD is SWFs is absolute nonsense. SWFs who hate killers generally do so because they've also, surprise surprise, been treated badly and have decided that means everyone playing the role is a deserving target of their ire. Which is, again, small-minded and idiotic behavior. But your poor innocent killer who was forced to bleed out some randos while humping their bodies is every bit to blame for this as the bully squad who gave them a bad time before.
@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751060#Comment_3751060
killer decides to engage in the most antisocial behavior
Killer is the one who kills people, and killing people is indeed a very antisocial behavior if you ask me.
Don't be disingenuous. We're all people playing an online game. Using the particular skin we're playing in our game of hide and seek tag to excuse being a dickhead is a tired and lazy excuse.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750486#Comment_3750486
It‘s still a fair map. Easy to travers, easy to find people and a lot of pallets. You only need to get some pallets out of the way fast and you got a easy match. The dumbest thing you can do on this map is trying to mind game, but once you realize this, it‘s ezzz.
Those examples just make this map extremely easy. Onryo/Trapper/hag/legion/clown and stealth killers have a good time on this map. After looking the at all killers we got, most of them actually have a good time on this map. The thing in current dbd is just; killers expect maps to be like haddonfield.
No, it's not a fair map, because if you don't have a power to ignore pallets in some way, the strength and non-mindgameability of most of its loops (as they are low and almost exclusively pallet) means that by the time you've cleaned out enough pallets that parts of the map are unsafe, efficient survivors have completed most of the gens. It's easy to find people, but no matter where they are on the map, they're a stone's throw away from several strong or god pallets that chain into each other and the only way to get downs is to chew through these resources, and getting the survivors to drop the pallet is a matter of brute force because like you said, you cannot mindgame to hasten the process. I can perform well in Gideon, but that's because my MMR is currently low after playing nice during the event. As soon as you're up against competent survivors? You just don't have enough time.
WDYM, Trapper has a good time on this map? There's nowhere to hide his traps. No grass, barely any windows, wide corridors and doorways. He has one good spot at the stairs and bottom of the vat drop and that's about it. He might get lucky with some of the narrow pathway RNG on the basement floor, but those corridors will be rendered moot once nearby gens are completed and the doors open. Trapper's one of the worst killers to play here. Legion can injure everyone but has a rough time getting downs. Clown doesn't have a good time - he can force drops earlier than most M1 killers, but he still has to break a dozen pallets before he's allowed to hit anyone. Stealth killers? Ghostface and Myers get clowned on hard in this map. Gideon has way more visibility than the other indoor maps, and stealth killers are notoriously bad at dealing with pallets. Pig's ambush rarely works on these loops between god pallets and perfect visibility. Wraith is better at forcing pallet drops, at least. Onryo can get a lot of condemned stacks and waste survivors' time via the tapes but is as badly off as any other M1 with the pallets.
It's a really badly designed map. It needs more windows and less god pallets - some nonexhaustible resources that survivors can't lose, so the map doesn't become a giant brainless deadzone by the end of the match, but killers don't have to mandatorily lose chase to clean up.
I'd suggest avoiding baselessly accusing your opponents of being lazy and wanting things to be unfair. Both tribalism and strawmanning are bad looks and the wide majority of players swap readily between both roles and have a decent idea of how the game looks from both angles, even if they might prefer one or the other.
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I don't actually feel things are worse than usual. Yeah, I'm running into some people who are clearly angry, but that's nothing new, and if anything I'm encountering more friendly or friendly-ish killers than usual (people who aren't farming and will kill you, but noticeably avoid tunneling and spread hooks.) The insta-hook mechanic is bad, it really shouldn't be able to yeet players to a different floor or into the basement, and that and remote pallet breaking are much more powerful than the tools survivors get. But on the flipside, this is my first time playing with the new anti-camp mechanic, and good god has that helped render the worst playstyles historical record. Haven't seen a facecamping Bubba once this event, so that automatically puts it head and shoulders over the last events I've been part of.
Plus, the copious bloodpoints mean that even the worst matches now are paying out like your best matches on a normal day. So while frustrating things are happening, and it's very irritating to see four survivors bring a cake and the killer bring a mori and then tunnel like they're being held at gunpoint… the outcome's still better than the usual state of affairs. I'm running into more players that are having fun, even in games where the killer is comp - yesterday I made friends with a Mikaela when we tried to Bardic Inspiration each other at the start of the match. Match was campy and tunnely AF, and the Wraith didn't think it was funny when I vaulted in to play our song while he moried her, but she did, and that's what counts.
It's definitely a bad time to play if you like setting up for saves and sabo, and DS getting countered by Q spam is just broken, but SWF isn't dead - I had an insane match earlier where I got teamed with a 3-man running a quad boon and the plays they were making were amazing. I'll never doubt Exponential again.
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Scratch marks are meant to be imperfect, so that the killer can be misled by clever pathing and won't be led to the survivor perfectly each time. That mechanic shouldn't be changed. They just shouldn't bring back 100% Iron Will, and if they do, they should make it more like Lucky Break where being very hard to track is a conditional timed element rather than a permanent megabuff.
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DBD got me to buy the REMakes, so there's that. Though I think that's the only time I've followed a license out of DBD.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
The sheer amount of bad perks.
The perk changes with this midchapter are a breath of fresh air, but the problem is still significant. I'd love to see perk updates on the REAL bottom of the barrel stuff. Inner Focus, Overwhelming Presence, Corrective Action, the Teamwork Perks, Genetic Limits (it was on the roadmap bhvr…… where did it go?), stuff like that.
Honestly, they should do a pass over the Tools of Torment perks first. Literally every single perk from that chapter outside of Background Player is completely unviable.
Fun fact - remember that Background Player's original effect activated on unhook, not when someone got picked up. That never made it off PTB, after everyone rightfully pointed out this perk incentivized taking TF off and leaving the unhooked player to be tunneled, but originally every single thing from that chapter was complete garbage!
But yeah, +1. I wish they'd fix the vast multitudes of perks nobody would ever run, and perks that are directly outclassed by another perk, instead of adding 6 new perks every 3 months.
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@Langweilig said:
Yes, if you don‘t play it stupidly and don‘t overchase survivors. Many killers really shine on this map: Nemesis, Huntress…
Once the main pallets are gone survivors got nothing and it isn‘t too difficult to archive that.
You should go there as pig with enduring and spirit fury for once. You will see this map with other eyes.
This map is actually killer sided if you know how to play it.
…Okay, but your problem about claiming that this map is killer sided is that every example you used is either a killer that ignores/hits over pallets, or a killer with a build to negate pallet stuns and break pallets. So of course Pallet Town is very favorable in those conditions. If the survivors bring The Game and I happened to be running Bubba or Nemesis or Spirit Fury/Enduring/Hubris or Impossible Skillcheck Doctor, yeah, I'm laughing to myself because they just played themselves.
But the killer can't choose what their build is by the time a map is loaded. And your average M1 killer with an average build is beyond screwed there unless the survivors are potatoes. Try playing Pig there without Spirit Fury/Enduring and come back and tell me it's still killer-sided.
Like… by that logic, Midwich is survivor sided because I'm playing Artist and can't check gens on both floors at once, and then I have to walk across the map to be in a position to check the other floor. Obviously that's complete nonsense, because most killers are playing in extremely favorable conditions in Midwich and it's disingenuous for me to cherrypick an example where its compact build doesn't help me.
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I like the idea, but giving it penalties to cleansing speed as well as repair is way too powerful. I think it'd be plenty functional as slowdown if it was just gens and healing.
I'm also a little concerned that the counterplay to this perk is countered by Pentimento, which would guaranteed be brought with it to magnify its effects. Penti already stacks magnificently with hexes that continually light bones and this one offers basically the same effect under different circumstances. Previously you could have said 'do bones' and the killer would get their slowdown either way, but now doing dull totems preemptively lets the killer 5stack Pentimento and completely bork the match.
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Plague build is kind of basic, but Corrupt, Pain Res, Plaything, and Discordance. Corrupt lets you keep a net of infection on the early gens, and the last two are nasty for getting value out of Corrupt Purge; survivors will hold W away from Plague with her power if they know she's around, and Discordance lets you know where to target.
My other main is Artist, and I haven't fixed my new build since they ruined STBFL on her, but Silver Bell + Severed Hands is god-tier on her, and I'd like to nominate Iron Maiden as being a sleeper hit on her? Nobody expects it, and when you bird survivors on distant gens, they'll jump into lockers to get rid of them. This partially removes that counterplay and can get you free downs the first time they try it.
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Bad faith players. I've had to get good at ignoring it and moving on, but I really hate encountering survivors or killers whose idea of fun is to make the other side miserable (bming and taunting, bully squads, bleeding out, etc.) This also includes people who set out to play hardball to 'prove a point' to the other side (not bringing a cake and tunneling because you want to win and forgot to change your offerings is kosher, but not bringing a cake and tunneling because you're angry at survivors and want them to suffer is a jackass move.) Also teammates who kill themselves on hook the second they see a killer not on their pre-approved list and that killer commits the cardinal sin of not being stupid and falling for their dumbtech.
Bad interactions are consistently the worst part of DBD to me, and usually the factor that pushes me back towards singleplayer games.
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Honestly, yeah. There's no reason this shouldn't be a thing. The only purpose the offering screen serves is to go "screw this" before the match even starts.
Though there is one downside. In-match you're able to check who brought what offering, so this kicks the can down the road a few inches; instead of cancelled matches, we'd get more bots once the match starts. Or in the case of killers refusing to play, the game just ends - but unlike matches that never loaded, you lose your addons and offerings.
And I do like being able to see who brought what in a match, because I exercise my right to treat players differently if they brought bloody party streamers for everyone or if they sent me to Brazil.
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@Mr_K said:
Iron Will was 100% when Spirit was popular.
True, but Stridor countered it back then and now it doesn't (used to be additive, now it's multiplicative.) Everyone ran Stridor for that reason.
But yeah, I barely see Spirit anymore anyway.
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Are we actually complaining about Distortion? Why? It's a pure perk/addon counter. If Distortion is wrecking you, then you're too reliant on your build to locate survivors and need to start employing more game sense.
Like, there's an argument to be made that Distortion is a selfish perk along the lines of Left Behind and Sole Survivor, but that's not a killer concern, that's a teammate concern.
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No less than Stranger Things did, and certainly more than Nicolas Cage.
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I'm hoping it does. I can definitely see room for annoying plays when Off The Record comes into play (bodyblocking for the unhooker and then taking off into the sunset), but Babysitter in its current state is worthless - I'd know, I've tried to run it - and I welcome anti-tunneling perks with open arms.
Wouldn't mind conspicuous action restrictions getting put on it. More than fair. Endgame feels a bit less necessary (in most situations where someone is getting unhooked during endgame collapse, the killer is already screwed and that isn't going to make a difference, or they hook trade and it doesn't make a difference, and when it would… I don't see what's wrong with survivors getting value out of the perks they bring into the match), but I wouldn't complain. I'll be very upset if the effect and duration are nerfed, though.
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@RedPoncho12 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749705#Comment_3749705
I totally agree. I would rather them implement better safe guards with combos than bringing out the nerf hammer. However, that doesn’t necessarily answer my first part of the question being should perks only viable when in combos than on their own. Again, I agree with everyone saying that weave for example is useless by itself
No, and perks definitely shouldn't be useless on their own, but I don't think DBD tries to design them that way. They're just obligated to churn out 3 perks for each side every update and don't have enough ideas, so we get loads of weak and overtuned-for-caution perks that nobody would actually run. And then sometimes those perks turn out to have a strong use with something else and people do run them. Like… Weave Attunement on its own is bad and you wouldn't run it without anything else to support it. But I'd say the same for all of Vecna's perks; Dark Arrogance is a worse Bamboozle and you wouldn't run it unless you were going full-bore vault speed build stacking it with Bamboozle and Superior Anatomy, and Languid Touch is unreliable compared to something like Mindbreaker or even Blood Echo (which most killers can't use, but certain ones can quite effectively.)
So like… no, perks shouldn't be useless on their own, but very technically I would rather have perks that are useless on their own but pair in cool ways with other perks, than perks that are just flat out useless. Of which we have plenty.
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It's an interesting conundrum that's difficult to balance. Personally I don't feel Weave + Franklins is busted only because it gives the survivor feedback when it's active and it has plenty of counterplay (put item in corner, move to different loop, don't bring items), but this is hardly the first time that we've had perks that were mediocre or good by themselves, but busted in tandem. Eruption/CoB/Overcharge immediately springs to mind. So does Buckle Up/FTP. Or old CoH/old Botany plus medkit.
It's really hard to avoid perks having synergy with each other, because there's so many perks and that number keeps increasing. This kind of thing is inevitable. But I wish they did a better job breaking up perks that pair problematically - making their effects not stack with each other or building in safeguards to cap the maximum possible effect - than taking the nerf hammer to the perks themselves and trashing them. Looking at you, gen regression perks.
In this case, if it really has to be nerfed, I think lessening the range of Weave would be fine, while giving it a secondary effect that makes it more worthwhile on its own (ideally, increasing the number of times items will be forcibly dropped - because that's Weave Attunement's real problem, it won't activate on its own without something else to facilitate it. If it did this, it wouldn't need Franklin's as badly as it does now.)
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749636#Comment_3749636
They do. They have 1000 people in the art department and 1 lonely guy in the software engineering department, who keeps leaving on vacations, while they could've instead hired 1000 engineers for the same funds.
Except the cosmetics are the cash cow that keeps this game funded and those employees paid, so you actually have no point on top of being blatantly hyperbolic.
Going into a thread to be No Fun Allowed and whinge about unrelated issues is a bad look.
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@RedPoncho12 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749636#Comment_3749636
I agree. That is a pointless and passionate comment BUT the devs are probably not looking at what anybody says on the forums with any actual consideration
I've actually seen devs take a lot of feedback from the forums. Just yesterday they confirmed bots replacing people DCing during the load screen won't come to live after everyone collectively complained about it. We also got pretty quick fixes for OG CoH, Boil Over, and some other stuff that made it to live in states that everyone hated. If enough people say the same thing, they listen.
That said, I don't know how much direction they take on cosmetics - certain survivors being cash cows while others are ignored is a common complaint and they continue to do what sells, as does the increasing focus on marketing in the UI and the whole hubbub about limited-time skins and FOMO. But I get that in this area, they're understandably driven by profit.
But hey, we can always hope someone's reading this thread and taking notes about what people want to see. They certainly listened to us when we begged for shirtless Felix.
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@Junylar said:
I would love to see a skin that would fix that year-old bug that forces a short M1 when you are trying to lunge. Skins fixing soloQ would also be welcome.
You realize comments like this are pointless, yes? The design team and the art team are completely different beasts. They don't take resources from each other and a drought of content on one side would not contribute to more content on the other. The people working on the art team do not have the skillset for bugfixing, and vice versa, the people on the balance team would probably give you stick drawings if you asked them to come up with a new cosmetic for Trapper.
And cosmetics pay for the rest of the game, so there's really no need to get all No Fun Allowed about it.
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If you implement something like this, it'd better have protection to recognize Bloody Party Streamers and past anniversary cakes as well.
Though if someone has neither, you're locking them in a situation where they're going to struggle to get bloodpoints. This is especially bad for survivors, who don't have as much cake in their bloodwebs as killers and can get killed early with low scores even if they do bring cake.
Like… I'd like to manifest a rolled-up newspaper and bonk the players who go "I won't bring cake because screw you all", but it's kinda hard to actually do that and not hit the people who aren't being malicious and are just trying to do a daily, forgot to switch their offerings, or don't have anything good on the character they're playing.
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Yeah, some killers have been rendered completely unable to use PWYF and STBFL because they lose stacks on using a power that can sometimes damage, but doesn't always. I'd like to nominate Artist when her birds swarm but don't injure.
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Ehh. I don't dislike the idea, but I don't think it's necessary either. I was way more pro Kindred basekit before we had icons showing what our teammates are doing. Previously there was a huge gap between solo and SWF about having any idea what the hell your teammates are doing, but now you're much better equipped to tell whether or not someone is going for the unhook.
And with the camping changes, Kindred isn't quite as good at telling whether the killer is camping, as most camping now takes place at a distance.
Without those key pieces of information that bridge solo and SWF, it's a free aura perk. Which… again? I'd probably be fine either way Mostly I'd worry about Open-Handed becoming meta in that case, because 16m is fine but 32m wallhacks every time someone is hooked is very strong.
Your suggestion seems to remove the killer aura part of the perk from the basekit? In that case, yeah, it'd be fine. Again, I don't think it's as necessary as it used to be, but I don't see a problem with it.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749478#Comment_3749478
This is a great point, and I think one issues with the Lara Croft IP is the more recent entries do tilt a lot more in a horror survival direction.
It's still more of an adventure game, but there are sequences such trying to slowly limp away unarmed with a hole in your side, through a cave with bits of bodies and half eaten corpses all around, while a cannibal is trying to catch you. Sequences your hands are tied while a cult is trying to execute you, and then one guy tries... do bad things to you... Another one where that same cult has you suspended by your ankles in the air in a sacrificial chamber with basically a lake of blood beneath you need to escape from in order to save your female friend who is about to be gutted to release their God of the Isle...
Lara is in her first adventure canonically in the 2013 game, a rookie and afraid/traumatised by what she sees; these sequences in the 2013 game ring more true to the experience you describe... and from my own experience I enjoyed the 2013 way more than the originals (which I never finished)... so that is my mental image of Lara…
The elephant in the room of course is the badass Lara in the originals doesn't really gel with this new direction of Lara... and it's a bit of a contention point with the newer games now that Lara is meant to be the battle hardened badass at this point in the series... and she is still whittling about things like she did in the 2013 soft reboot...
This doesn't make sense anymore to Lara's character, and unfortunately despite this direction shift the general Public perception of Lara is the original version, not the newer games...
As someone who's not familiar with Tomb Raider beyond the impression in the collective gamer consciousness and a few wikipedia dives - if the recent games do focus more on these sequences that induce pressure and fear on the player, then she does fit much more into DBD. Because that's the important bit with horror elements. A cannibal doesn't make a game a horror game. Trying to keep quiet and not bleed out as you hide from a cannibal in a gruesome den of their former victims does make a horror game.
But that's an interesting dichotomy with survival horror - where vulnerability is a key component, even if there's a good deal of grit involved in surviving - going against the original iteration of Lara Croft as the ultimate badass, and potentially undermining her identity. Because yeah, that's a direction that works great when you're creating a prequel situation, but doesn't hold once you've passed the gauntlet of character development. But from a game design perspective, you have all these intense and powerful sequences that perform well, and you want to keep doing what works...
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749470#Comment_3749470
I don't know, but aren't nerdy geek and sports cannon aka Dwight and Meg not quite stereotypical characters in horror movies? Unless you want to be ultra specific when it comes to the victims in horror movies I would say that basically everyone can fit that role...
Edit: Doh, wrote up an essay and then realized I misread your post and completely agree with you. Sorry! Have a like.
To amend, I don't think anyone can claim any of the original characters don't belong in horror. They were created for DBD. DBD is a horror game. We have highly successful horror icons who snark off and have stupid catchphrases. IT is a dancing killer clown. Chucky the tiny swearing killer doll is already in the game. I'll eat my hat if Legion wasn't inspired by The Purge, and the idea that ordinary people you know could be hiding so much evil. The chapter title and trailer support that much more than the power does these days… but yes. Horror is not limited to stereotypes.
In this case it's not about role, it's about the property the character came from and whether or not that property is focused on horror. Resident Evil might have way more guns and explosives than Silent Hill, but they're both full of sequences meant to terrify the player and leave them inching around feeling exposed, underprepared, and never sure when something is going to jump out at them or when they'll need to hide or flee. Tomb Raider has horror elements, particularly in specific games, but they're not designed as a horror game and the experience is very different from playing one of the former two. When you have adequate tools to protect yourself and avoid danger, you shift from horror to action-adventure.
Not that I mind. DBD already jumped the shark in that regard. Nick Cage, Vecna, even arguably Stranger Things. It is what it is, and Lara Croft is cool. I'll be happy so long as we don't end up with New Killer: Teletubby and New Survivor: Otto Van Bismarck.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749216#Comment_3749216
it never has 4 cakes in bloodweb and the minimum is 1
Says who? I've had four cakes in a single killer bloodweb multiple times this year. Survivors have four possible event items (toolbox, medkit, flashlight, cake) and therefore are not guaranteed a cake on their bloodweb, and can go multiple webs in a row getting other anniversary items but not cakes.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747738#Comment_3747738
Adepts were better before when they required hooks and you needed skill to get them on higher ranks. Fine they were too easy on lower ranks but they could change requirement to 10 hooks and 3K. But very rarely challenges or adept are reason for slugging maybe 1 out of 50 times.
I'm gonna have to disagree with that one because of the way the emblem system worked - getting adepts on certain killers was a nightmare because their powers performed poorly in the Chaser emblem (ex Plague), and instadown killers had to avoid using their power for the same reason. The 4k encourages cheesy behavior while the old system forced killers to play a thorough game, but I'd take that over getting a perfect 12-hook game and then not getting the adept because the stars didn't align with Pluto on a waning gibbous moon.
But yeah, achievements are only rarely the reason behind players trying to 4k. Different people have different ideas of what constitutes fun in this game and those ideas are often at cross purposes.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749141#Comment_3749141
So…. cheating in games are ok, as long as you have spend enough time on the game ?
How on earth did you come to that conclusion from my post? I complained about Nurse breaking the game in that post. I'm saying I'd rather vs Nurse than Skull Merchant because Nurse either allows entertaining counterplay or is over quickly. Skull Merchant is a slog.
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@Blackvoid2me said:
I personally dont mind any kind of skins. I welcome any. As long as its more skins for characters that rarely get anything and are neglected
BHVR hears you loud and clear, and is proud to announce 3 new Feng Min skins and a new fancy glittery dress for Mikaela…
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I feel like part of why it's so frustrating to play against killers that speedrun the match during this event is because it's so much easier for killers to get cakes than survivors. Killers always have 2-4 cakes per bloodweb, where a survivor can go several bloodwebs without seeing one. This means that when you get booted out of a match near-immediately because the killer was playing comp or your teammates gave up, you're losing cake with your piddly 30k while the killer proceeds to blaze through ten more bloodwebs full of them with their 200k. It's… unpleasant.
Meanwhile, if I play killer and do Actually Nothing, I still walk out of the match with dosh. Like. I've had games where the survivors signaled at the start that they wanted to be friendly, I obliged them, and then they were rude and never let me hook them and I didn't press the issue, so I had 0 hooks and like… two or three hits. And I'd still score 15k with the event, and that'd multiply to a nice 80k. And then I'm 4x as likely to get cake as a survivor is. So even the most wasted game as killer pays dividends compared to survivor, where you individually have much less control over what happens in the game.
Though ultimately this does come down to value system dissonance. Some people's idea of fun is very incompatible with other people's idea of fun, and nothing you say or do is going to convince those people to behave otherwise. They're not even really wrong for enjoying a game in a way that's counter to how you enjoy it, as much as I agree with you. Best you can do is try to make your games pleasant for others when you have the winning hand and hope karma pays that back to you.
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Killers complain about survivors all the time. Medkits, toolboxes, sabotage, map offerings, perks, bodyblocking, taunting. Looping, which you are arguing right now. This is hardly some survivor sin that killers nobly bear the cross of.
People don't like losing and get angry about things other people did to prevent them from winning. Sometimes they have a point, and there are game mechanics that need address. Usually they don't. They whine and make false reports all the time, and those reports get discarded because they're baseless and not actually against the rules and nobody has to care.
I highly disagree that looping is boring. I mean, running perfect laps around tiles is boring as hell, but mindgames in chase and finding ways to cut off that loop are the most exciting part of this game. The survivor alternative to wasting the killer's time via chase is immersing and trust me, you don't want that.
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I generally don't care about survivor-only chapters, as they don't add to gameplay. They're just skins with occasionally pithy voice lines. Nick Cage was an exception because that was a wild meme and loading into Dead By Daylight only to see four No Mither Nicolas Cages plot twist themselves in front of me lives on in my heart forever. But for the most part, licensed survivor chapters are nothingburgers unless you're a fan of their IP. And I'm not into Tomb Raider, and the novelty factor of getting all these recognizable characters into DBD has long worn off for me, so... shrug.
Should they have hyped her more? Oh, sure. But it wouldn't have changed my reaction. Get me a full Tomb Raider chapter and we can talk.
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You could get strong value out of Finesse + Resilience if you're super cracked and can run tiles precisely. But in that case you should probably be running another utility perk instead of Windows, which is good, and provides information on variable tiles, but as a perk it's more training wheels than big league. I also don't think Lithe is necessarily the play here, because if you're a super tight looper you want to milk the hell out of tiles instead of immediately running to the next one, and Lithe has a skill downside of not being able to save it for when it's necessary.
Slightly faster vault speed isn't that good if you're an imprecise looper.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749163#Comment_3749163
As for removing "legit" plays with hook suicide, hook suicides to rage quit are by far the main use that people use the system. Which is why in my first post I said "The downsides of it existing far exceed any benefits."
If removing hook suicides would actually prevent players from getting mad and trying to ragequit, I would agree with you.
But they demonstrably do not, so removing them is just removing a game mechanic and pushing the problem onto another game mechanic. Once again circling back to the point… removing the hook suicide mechanic will not stop bad faith survivors from trying to die as fast as possible to get out of a match. The underlying problem still exists and is fiendishly hard to address at the source. You're advocating plugging leaks where they appear, except this is a case that when you seal one leak, a new one immediately blows open elsewhere. Unless you also have plans to address the new leak, dealing with the old one is actually worse than pointless, because now you have the same problem and less game mechanics.