Krazzik
Krazzik
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Either everyone should cleanse or no one should cleanse.
Most people say never cleanse but unless everyone is good in chase, that's a bad idea, and usually you won't have a full team of good loopers.
It's harder to really know what to do in solo queue but I tend to try and do what everyone else in my team is doing, but if everyone's going down quickly and the game is falling apart, it's better just to cleanse.
The WORST thing you can do, is have some people cleansing and some people refusing to. If you do that then she gets her power, and can one shot infected survivors with it, AND the infected survivors will keep spreading the infecton to people who are cleansing.
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If the survivor wastes their endurance on protecting the healthy unhooker, then just tunnel them. It's literally their own fault at that point.
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While I do think that MFT and Hope shouldn't stack, you're not gonna get much sympathy in this thread when your point boils down to "MFT + Hope punished me for slugging for the 4k'.
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Female survivors are smaller and so have an advantage in-game. They also 'tend' to have better cosmetics, with a greater variety in styles and just in general more effort put into them.
Also most straight guys prefer playing as women as they find them more attractive and most female gamers prefer playing as women because they identify with them more.
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If survivors stopped using their basekit BT to defend the unhooker and then complain that they get tunneled, I might feel bad about doing it more.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3551198#Comment_3551198
I could make similar thread survivors gen rushing when I bring cake on killer but I do feel I have more control over that and can tunnel someone out in response if no other options. But well at least even in bad games im able to get 20K bp on killer. Maybe when I get super gen rushers then I made the thread.
On survivor im left mercy of my teammates and killer, both were horrible in that game. Killer had guy death hooked so no need to camp me but maybe he just wanted to me out because I brought the cake. Teammates could saved me rather easily actually more their fault. He was not standing whole time facecamping there were opportunities to do save without trade...
It does suck but that's what happens in a team game. When you rely on other people to do well, then when they're bad, you end up doing badly as well. Not much BHVR can do to stop bad teammates.
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Good survivors will just ignore plaything and deal with the oblivious while completely removing one of the killer's perks. Even if a survivor does cleanse their plaything they now know where the pentimento will be and can just go cleanse it again after it's lit.
It's decent slowdown IF the survivors cleanse but even then, if they cleanse efficiently, it's not THAT much slowdown, and eventually the killer ends up with two dead perks.
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It sucks but you must know camping/tunnelling/BMing is pretty common in this game and if you ever bring 'nice' stuff into a game there's a good chance this will happen.
BMing happens to both sides too, so it's not an us vs them thing either.
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To be fair the robe on Gabe's would look weird if it was mix and matched with other stuff.
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Killer, mainly because I'm not heavily reliant on getting decent teammates to win.
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Any killer that requires the survivors to do anything extra, tend to have higher kill rates because many survivors just don't bother. It's why Pinhead, Sadako and Pig are all usually near the top of kill rates, solely because many survivors only know how to eat hot chip and do gens.
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Both perks are fine on their own, fairly weak even, but together they're just busted and often can put the killer into an unwinnable situation through no fault of their own.
Just need to make it so using FTP doesn't proc Buckle Up, simple.
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It's a bit of a crutch perk, in the sense that if you use it often, you're gonna be noticeably-worse at the game when you take it off. That said there's not really any reason you'd ever need to take it off, like any other perks.
The survivor does still need to decent at pathing and if they're going to loop, then obviously they need to be good at that too.
I'd argue though that if the other three survivors actually focus on gens, then the survivor with WoO doesn't actually need to loop, they can simply be-line from pallet to pallet to window to pallet and pre-drop and by the time they run out of resources, the gens are done or nearly done.
Whether or not it's overpowered is tricky. It's not obviously-strong like old Dead Hard or old Decisive Strike, it doesn't allow the survivor to do anything they can't do normally do, but being able to just always know where the next pallet or window is located is really strong, and the only way most killers can counter it is Blindness, which if they're NOT running WoO is a pretty weak status effect.
I think the fact that it's so overwhelmingly used, it's by far the most popular survivor perk and it's the ONLY DLC perk in the top 5 maybe even top 10, that says a lot. Given that BHVR mainly balances perks around pick-rate, shows it's gonna get a nerf eventually.
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I buy anything I -really- want and then just press auto-buy.
Stuff I tend to go out of my way for are Cakes/Puddings, Bloody Party Streamers, Brand New Parts, Syringes, and map offerings for Midwich, The Game and Lery's. Also any particular killer addons I love.
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Wraith is a weaker killer so against good survivors kinda needs to tunnel if he's gonna have a chance at winning. His kit also allows him to return to the hook quickly after the save so he can tunnel straight away.
Now I don't see Wraiths all that often and when I do it's pretty much 50/50 if they tunnel or not, but when they don't tunnel they tend to do rather badly.
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Generally your guards aren't going to get many, or even any hits, they're useful for keeping survivors busy and off gens, and to try and zone them so you can get a hit easier.
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Flashlights being killswitched is a pretty big deal so it's fair they made a hotfix solely based around fixing them and bringing them back.
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@caipt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546391#Comment_3546391
I know that, I dont really ever camp outside endgame anyways. I'm just done with BHVR removing mechanics and strategies by force instead of fixing actual game design problems.
But facecamping didn't really add anything to the game, it was near-universally hated and just made people miserable. The -only- time it has a place is in endgame, which is still allowed. It's okay to essentially just remove stuff if it's bad for the game.
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I guess it does remove facecamping outside endgame as a strategy but doing that is a terrible idea anyway and will usually make you lose. They're not removing it because it's OP, it's not, they're removing it because it's unfun for the survivors.
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Killers begin the game at their weakest. They have zero pressure, they don't know where any survivors are (unless you bring Lethal Pursuer), all the pallets are up, all breakable walls are up, and the survivors are all gonna be on gens quickly because there's no unhooks or healing needed to be done.
The job killer has is to gain pressure by (usually) downing and hooking survivors quickly to force even more survivors off gens to get saves and heal. This in turn greatly slows down gen progress which is by far at it's quickest at the start of a match.
Yes, it does feel pretty demoralising to have two gens pop by the time you get your first hook, but that first hook is what will start slowing gens down and buy you time to get more hooks which means even more gen slowdown.
This is ignoring of course a full team of survivors bringing BNP toolboxes and gen speed perks which... I mean if they're good there's not really much most killers can do against that anyhow.
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Instead of it taking a random amount of tries between 1 and 6, they should just make it take like 3 all the time and have addons that increase it to 4 or 5.
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With such drastic changes we kinda need to wait to see how she actually plays in game to know for sure, but she got some big buffs to her kit as a whole, obviously while losing her 3gen potential.
You do make a good point though, we'll have to see how easy it is to not only spot her stealth drones, but also if it's easy to just run away. It may be something that, depending on the loop, the survivor needs to deal with. You gotta get zapped by a drone three times to get injured/deep wounds which could end up being something that never happens in matches.
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Skull Merchant changes look good, some considerable buffs to her kit as a whole, while heavily neutering her 3-gen poterntial. Will need to wait until people can test her out to really see how she plays though.
Furtive Chase 'buff' was so terrible I can't understand why BHVR thought it would finally make people use it, they wont. Make the terror radius reduction also count outside of chase and the perk might be good.
Trapper changes are nice, it still doesn't solve the inherent issues with his kit, but if BHVR is intent on keeping him the way he is now, then these sorts of buffs are the best we can really expect, and they're solid, good changes.
@drsoontm said:
As long as Trapper has to go fetch his traps, he will not compete.
Agreed, but BHVR seems to want to keep him this way, and 2 more traps at least means you can ignore picking up one or two traps in far off dead zones and not be punished as badly.
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I think the basekit 10 seconds of BT is the only basekit anti-tunnel we can ever really expect. It's actually pretty strong against most killers if the survivor is a good looper, but for mid-to-poor loopers, yeah it doesn't do anything.
I could maybe see them buffing some of the anti-tunnel perks -slightly-, DS could eventually go back upto 5 seconds stun, and maybe they'll introduce one or two other anti-tunnel perks but I doubt they're gonna do much against tunelling as a whole.
If they did outright make tunnelling impossible to do they'd need to substantially buff the killer role across the board and I doubt they have the time or drive to do that.
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When I try mindgaming or looping as survivor it usually doesn't end well, so I just stick to pre-dropping and holding W, sorry ^^;
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Renewal is a perfectly decent perk, and yeah it does work with healing speed perks, even if you heal faster you still only have to heal a full heals-worth on another survivor.
The only thing I'd maybe like to see changed is to reduce the requirement by a couple charges, just incase someone else starts healing themselves for a second before you start heaing them, but besides that it's fine.
The reason Renewel is rarely used is because firstly, if the killer tunnels and hits you right off the hook, it only heals the deep wound so it's basically useless there, and secondly there are just better perks in the game, why bring a 'decent' perk when you could instead bring another 'strong' perk?
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Skull Merchant is currently working as intended. They rarely use the killswitch even when things ARE broken so they're certainly not going to use it when something is working perfectly normally.
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You want to nerf a rarely used perk, interesting.
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It makes sense. When they announce a strong perk is getting nerfed then everyone spams it until the change happens. When the medkit nerf was announced everyone brought stacked midkits with syringes. Only fair when they announce a Skull Merchant 'nerf' loads of people spam her and 3gen while they can.
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TCM can definitely coexist with DBD, they're both different enough to attract their own playerbases and plenty of people play both just fine.
Personally I can't see TCM 'killing' DBD, it's not overwhelmingly successful enough to actively steal that many players from DBD and certain questionable decisions by the devs have had them actually lose quite a lot of players since launch, more than might be expected.
What would 'kill' DBD would be the same thing that 'killed' World of Warcraft and Overwatch, itself. Bad decisions and a general ineptitude of the devs. Literally all BHVR has to do to keep DBD even moderatly successful is to keep churning out good chapters, though that's starting to be a challenge for them.
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The only reason I can think of is if they were struggling to support this option, but I don't know enough about that sorta thing to understand why that would be so diffcult.
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Time to killswitch survivors.
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Not including the most recent couple of killers, I'd say Freddy. Even the likes of Twins, Hag and Dredge I've seen have mains, but I've not even heard of any Freddy mains.
@[Deleted User] said:
This one is kind of a trick question. You'd think it'd be the low pickrate killers like Twins or Hag, but there's actually a good chance that they're P50+ if I actually run into one. I ran into a P100 Twins the other day. If someone is playing them, they probably hardcore main them.
I genuinely can't recall ever seeing a high prestige Freddy or Doc. Never seen it. I think a hardcore Freddy main is the rarest thing.
HermanTheDoctor is an awesome Doc main on Twitch who I strongly recommend, though he's the only doctor main I know of.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540812#Comment_3540812
Personally I would also remove all the information aside from Characters and Items. Gameplay-wise there is 0 reason why someone should see the Profile of another player before the game starts. This would remove things like dodging because of hours, SWFs or Streamers. I also dont really think that going against TTVs is that different. Most of them only stream to a handful of viewers anyway.
And while you might not lobbydodge to get the easiest games, I know people do. There is a streamer I know (dont watch them, because they are unbearable to watch), but they have 14k hours, are a Nurse-Main since the start (including Legacy) and still check every profile in the Lobby and dodge. This might be an extreme example, but you would guess that someone with that many hours on the strongest Killer in the game might not need to lobbyshop. And if someone like that does it, others do it was well.
When it comes to backfilling ignoring MMR.. This is due to queuetimes. BHVR wants to keep them low and it is understandable. I mean, if I look at my games when I play Survivor (evening, incentive is on Killer at this point in my region) - lets say it takes 1-2 minutes for searching a game. Then we are in the Lobby, Killer checks profiles and dodges. Now the next Killer will need like 20 seconds to be in the Lobby, starts checking profiles (takes maybe 20 seconds as well) and dodges. And this repeats a few times. This adds up. And if we consider that this is with MMR not being that relevant for the Matchmaker, it might just increase to unreasonable times the Survivors have to wait in the Lobby for no real reason. Now WITH MMR being a big factor when it comes to backfilling, it will probably take really long for a new Killer to be in the Lobby (compared to now) and if they dodge again...yeah.
Oh I completely understand why they throw MMR out of the window for backfilling. People already waited to get into the lobby and BHVR doesn't want them to have to wait again every time someone leaves. And it's probably the smart choice, regardless of what people say, more people prefer unbalanced, fast games over long queue times. It's also why I don't think they ever will add MMR to backfilling, which is a shame.
It probably is best to remove information for the killer in the lobby, if they make it impossible to check hours for people who do that, and even to see prestige and player names it'd reduce lobby dodging hugely, I know I'd almost never do it without all that info.
As long as it remains though I'm gonna use it.
@egg_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540812#Comment_3540812
"I don't lobby dodge to get easy games. However, I lobby dodge to get easy games"
Argueably true. Technically I do lobby-dodge to get easier games. However I'd much prefer go against people who are actually closer to my skill level rather than babies. I just don't want to go against people much better than me, and if I can do anything to reduce the chance of that appening, I'm gonna do it.
If matchmaking actually worked, then I wouldn't need to as I wouldn't get matched against much better survivors in the first place, and I also would never get matched against babies.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540434#Comment_3540434
It really is not. With the MMR at least somewhat accurate when nobody dodges the Lobby, it means that the Killer will most likely not have a guaranteed 4K, but they also wont be destroyed either. So if they lose, they wont feel powerless and if they win, it will not be easy.
The people who have the big disadvantage because of Killers dodging Lobbies until they find the most inexperienced group are Killers like in OPs post. Brand-new people who got into a game they should not be in. It should just not be the case that Killers can cherrypick their games and inexperienced players have to play against Survivors who are far stronger than they are.
I already wrote it a few times, but I experienced a P0 Trapper (Console, so no idea how many hours) without Tier 3-Perks who went up against our Survivor-Team which consistet of 2 2 man SWFs with 20k hours combined. They did not get bullied, but they surely did not have any chance. And that is because someone else chickend out, possibly a Killer with thousands of hours themselves. And this is just not fair.
And BHVR apparently think the same if they are starting to remove information from the Pregame-Lobby (with testing to not show the Prestige-Level). This is way too less and does not really help (I still have 8600 hours, even if I play my P5-Ellen, so Prestige Level does not really work anyway to see how experienced someone is..), but it is a start. Other possibilities would be to punish Lobby-Dodging like DCs or increase the wait timer for each time you dodge a Lobby. There are multiple solutions.
But having Killers cherrypick their games to have some new Players end up in Lobbies they should just not be in is not a solution.
I don't lobbyshop to look for baby teams, those games are miserable for everyone involved. However, if I end up against multiple high prestige survivors or multiple TTVs who are obviously SWFing, then I'm gonna dodge.
Yes, high prestige doesn't -always- mean the survivors are amazing but most of the time it does, and the times when I -don't- lobby dodge and decide to play the game, it's almost always miserable and kills my drive to continue playing.
I'd completely understand if they removed lobby shopping, but as long as it's an option, for my own mental health I'm gonna do it, and it's clear -many- other killer players do the same.
Again, the bigger issue that needs fixing is backfilling ignoring MMR, that shouldn't be a thing.
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@mizark3 said:
This looks like a Killer left the lobby and it backfilled a baby. Equal blame for Killers who dodge lobbies and BHVR for not having a minimum hour requirement for certain matches to be 'okayed'.
I mean lobby-shopping is pretty much a necessity for many killers to actually be able to have fun in the game, but yes they should fix the backfilling breaking MMR.
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It depends what level you think killers should be balanced around.
Some people think mid-tier killers like Demo are balanced, though I think even mid-tier killers are generally too weak to compete well against good survivors. I think Nurse and Blight are a bit too strong but I believe that 'A-tier' is how we should be balacing most killers; strong, competitive, but also counterable.
Artist, Pyramid Head, Wesker, killers like that.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539642#Comment_3539642
Oh, I wont help. I just know that Killers dont appreciate it if someone helps them, so I will just not do that.
I will be out of the match at some point either way. The exploiter is not my problem when I am a Survivor.
Many killers -do- appreciate when survivors don't go along with the cheater, but whatever suits your anti-killer narrative I guess.
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Hatch is pretty balanced in my eyes. It fulfils an important job of discouraging survivors giving up because there's always a chance for an escape, so even if a strong killer is stomping a team, one person has a chance to escape.
It does cause some issues though. When there's only two survivors left they often choose to hide and wait for the other person to be killed first so that they themselves have a chance for the hatch, but if there are only two survivors left and multiple gens left, there's not really any chance of those gens getting done so it's understandable, if tedious.
Also there are various archives and achievements that -require- 4ks, so the killer is forced to slug for the 4k in these situations, which isn't great, but I still think overall hatch is better how it is than not existing.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539939#Comment_3539939
The most hated killers in the game aren't that strong tho. Survivors want to play against killers that don't nullify their skill in chase. There are some strong killers in this list like nurse and artist but most of them are weak or mid
Most of the 'unfun' killers that I see complained about are the higher-tier killers though.
Nurse, Blight, Wesker, Artist, Hag, Twins, Skull Merchant (if she 3-gens).
Clown and Knight are the only lower-tier killers I see much dislike for, and that's because they still have anti-loop, even if it's not that great. Legion too I guess, but that's due to all the mending.
Pretty much all of the higher-tier killers can't just be looped traditionally, that's why they're high tier mostly.
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It sounds like the only killers that survivors deem 'fun' are weak killers who can be easily looped. Funnily enough those same killers are often not considered fun for killer.
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Killswitching coins wouldn't solve the issue though, they'd still just open all the chests and have a decent chance of getting at least one flashlight.
Time to killswitch survivors.
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Cenobite's Box
Wesker's Med Spray
Nemmy's Vaccine
Singularity's EMP
Sadako's Tape (but apparently this one is bugged and doesn't count)
EDIT: And Flashbangs
The killer achievement is easiest to grind on Wesker or Singularity since survivors actually hold onto their items, Nemmy's vaccine just gets used straight away and The Box usually gets solved straight away.
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Probably not until late 2024 if even then.
We know Twins is the next big rework and they announced that ages ago and it STILL wont be done 'till early next year.
With their current plan of 4 DLCs per year it doesn't give them much time to even do many perk or addon changes let alone full-on reworks of old killers, so I wouldn't expect a Skull Merchant change for at least a year.
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BHVR has stated that kills increase a killer's MMR. They've never really defined 'kills' but since they're using the word 'kills' and not 'sacrifices' I'd assume bleedouts/moris/hour-long games do increase MMR.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537562#Comment_3537562
Then go for it in the next. I have played a lot of killer (as much or more than surv) and have chased many adepts and countless tome challenges, but you have to draw a line somewhere. Well don't have to, but if you're gonna leave someone on the ground potentially for minutes to go on a wild goose chase, that is a line I won't cross. It's just really poor form, imo.
4Ks aren't terribly hard to come by, really, and not every game needs to be a 4K. Not every scenario where only one surv is up is opportunity that simply can't be passed up. 4Ks aren't currency.
Everyone has their own sensibilities, but I actively resent players who play like every 4K adds a year to their life or something. In a game with no real ranking system or substantial tangible reward, it's just kind of pathetic.
I can maybe excuse it if someone is chasing a really elusive adept they've been chasing for a long time (like if they've decided to try to get it when that killer is already at high MMR, which frankly is a result of poor planning), but that's about it.
99.9% of the time, if you have two survs left and one is on the ground but you don't know where the other is, hook the one and take your chances with the hatch game. By most definitions you've already "won", and the odds are still in your favor to get that last surv.
I mean that's how you feel and I can respect that but if someone is doing an archive that requires a 4k or is doing an adept and there's 2 survivors left, it just makes sense to down one and search for the other. Hatch, while an important game mechanic, is something that you need to play around if you wanna get your 4k. If there weren't these things ingame that the devs chose to require 4ks, then I'd be more sympathetic to your point.
And for some players depending on their MMR, 4ks can be pretty tough to come by. As you mentioned, they could be trying for an adept on a killer they're not good at, or matchmaking is simply making their life miserable and they get game after game against really good teams.
And again I get why you don't ever slug for the 4k yourself and I completely agree that's it's not very fun for survivors on the receiving end, but to resent players for playing in a way that BHVR forces them to if they want to reliably get a 4k? That's kinda extreme.
If a killer wants a 4k, they don't really have a choice.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/390815/slugging-cannot-be-that-toxic
A lot depends on context, but often times what you're describing is a "if you're gonna waste my time, I'm gonna waste yours" mentality from the slugged surv.
It's one thing if you down the next to last survivor and the last one is right there to chase, but if the killer downs you and then scours the entire map for minutes because they are thirsty for that 4K, it becomes kind of an FU situation.
I usually won't move, but if I know the other surv is no where near and the killer goes off on an expedition to find them, I will often just crawl to the most well hidden spot I can find and then go get a snack or something.
Why? Because slugging for the 4K like that is lame as hell.
What if the killer is going for their adept? Or is doing one of the archives that requires a 4k?
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Some people's fun is tied heavily to winning, which means they're gonna do everything in their power to try and win. I don't understand it myself but if that's what they enjoy, more power to them.
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Sadly there's a lot of people who play this game who have a genuine, real-life seething hatred of the other side. Like not just a "haha stupid killer" but a deep-seated personal grudge against anyone who plays the other side. This is something you can even see with some posters on these very forums, who take every opportunity in every single one of their posts to demonise survivors/killers and blame them for all of society's ills.
It's unhinged.