Khorzad
Khorzad
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@VolantConch1719 said:
Any future blighted cosmetics can simply be explained away as being before Talbot's transformation. Time is not linear in the Entity's realm.
He's too unstable to continue his experiments and no other Survivor that we see knows how to deal with the Killers like he did.
Pretty sure that the Blight is still experimenting with Survivors from the info of some of his add-ons and we know that Killers can meet each other in the realm, so the Blight would have a lot of chances to create more “blight” versions of killers.
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Eh, I like the cane, it fits with the “crazy scholar” design that they seem to be going with Blight. Although I agree that it looks and he is using in a weird way, perhaps it would look better if the cane was bigger (so it looked more like a scythe) and/or used his two hands.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1553047#Comment_1553047
not the existence, but as i've seen a couple of times now, apparently the devs said that such organization exists in each reality the entity takes people from, as in these cults are what gives it access to these realities. IF i understood things correctly. if that is the case, that's what I am unhappy with. the idea that the entity needs a bunch of morons before it can interact with a timeline.
Yeah, I don’t remember such a quote coming from the devs, at least from the official Q&A that they had in the past, so sorry if I am a bit skeptic, because the rest of the lore still went for the explanation that the entity is attracted and can enter into worlds and places where great violence, pain and death has occurred.
@Science_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1553047#Comment_1553047
It's fine if you don' mind the existence of these cults in the lore, but it's pretty hard to argue either of them were well-written. With both of the new characters, the addition of the Entity studies is clunky and heavy-handed. Blight had a standard story that could have reasonably ended when he was left for dead in the ditch, but for some reason he had to be mysteriously saved, only to be mysteriously betrayed, and finally to mysteriously disappear. Why any of this necessary when Blight had already been blithely responsible for mass murder and been extensively involved in the botanical experiments that tie into his powers is the real mystery.
And I already explained how the actions of Felix's father's group are absurd even if you actually accept that Entity-aware secret societies exist.
It could be pretty hard to argue that for you, because I see it as the opposite, specially for Felix, whose backstory had a “It” from Stephen King feeling about it. You said that is stupid for the group to be in an island where the Entity had taken people before, but we don’t know if the group even knew about that. Yes, they were prepared to face the Entity, but in the present, Dyer Island was not a hellhole or had the markings of a place that would clearly attract the Entity, and the kids only found it because they went to an unexplored part of the island in journeys that they weren’t supposed to do. And given what the Entity is meant to be, I find it impressive that they even managed to avoid it taking their kids (which you know, it would be a first).
Talbolt, eh, it could have worked without it if Talbolt was always meant to be a killer, but he started as a survivor and he clearly regretted and wanted to make amends from his crimes, so the entity couldn’t have taken him at that time as a killer(You could say that is similar to Adiris, but she was in a very different situation and mental space and more importantly, she inadvertently called to the Entity and was kind of tricked into joining its service). The part with the scholars helped give more character to him by showing his regret and fully show how he was consumed by his obsession and need for knowledge, because that was not explored before.
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@Science_Guy said:
The Secret Entity-Studying Society in Felix's lore was hilariously convoluted. You're telling me these parents let their children just run around freely on an island they know is linked to and preyed upon by a malevolent eldritch horror?
And their only response when said horror shows up, the same entity that they ostensibly have been preparing to meet for generations, was to just be taken themselves?
Sometime less is more. Both Felix and the Blight have lores that could have had half of the weird Entity stuff excised and it would have made for a much more tidy story.
Not really, at the very least with Felix, that has a lot of his backstory and character connected to his father and the group, and Talbolt only start exploring the metaphysical (and thus, attracting the Entity) after being saved by the group. I don’t see why the existence of the cult is such a problem, again, is been mentioned before.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
My 'issue' with it is less what it does, regardless what it is, but more that it is a connecting factor. I dunno, it feels to me as if it takes something away from... i dunno... the sense of dread?
But it is not a connecting factor, as they are not a constant. Unless you are talking about some leak lore from the archives that I haven’t read, the group that fights the Entity is not a constant, and although there are implications about ancient cults and tribes that have knowledge of the Entity, again, they are not referred as a multiversal constant.
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@BSNightflow said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1552112#Comment_1552112
Thank you for your kind reply! I've been rethinking a lot today. It's actually way more amazing than offensive, that the devs opt to write about invasion and chemical weapons, and the utter suffering brought to people. Many people or companies won't have the nerves to do this.
Well, to be honest I will probably not empathize with most killers. I mentioned that because the Alchemist was a survivor. At least that's what I knew back then in 2018 during the Hallowed Blight, where we get to know his experience through first person POV. Aside from the opium den thing, he seemed nothing more than a typical survivor who tried just a bit too hard to stay alive. He was becoming obsessed and I assumed that he would become a killer. (I even did some fan arts about him being a killer, if that matters.) Now that he finally is one, I expected his story to be more survivor-ish with some sort of sudden twist. And the actual result is quite a surprise, lol.
Still, the Blight is pretty cool and hopefully devs will continue to polish him. Thank you again for the attention!
Yeah, I was also surprised at the things that Talbot did, given that he did start as a survivor, but I think the difference from other killers is that, he regretted and was haunted by what he did, but still wanted to do good despite his obsession, so he wasn’t completely broken and still had his humanity even when he was taken by the Entity:
He knew he couldn’t defend himself against the anger and accusations of his abductorーall he could do was curl up as the blows from the steel pipe rained down. His body was thrown into the grave and left for dead. Shifting between consciousness and the darkest black, he crawled for an escape, fingers sinking into rotting flesh. Black flies festered on his uncovered skin, the sensation of a hundred pin pricks stabbing into him. As he collapsed, he came face to face with a dead woman’s dazzling hazel eyes. Too weak to pull away, he could do nothing but witness his life’s work.
Poring over the school’s archives of lost texts, he uncovered scientific formulas that confirmed previously unthinkable ideas. He dreamt of ushering humankind into a new period of enlightenment. Perhaps then, the nightmares of hundreds of dead factory workersーand of those two hazel eyesーwould fade from his mind.
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Worshipers? I got the opposite, that those were people, like the Observer’s group, that studied the nature of dimensions (hell, it is probably that they were the same group) and oppose the Entity and fight its influence. I think that is basically confirmed given that the father of Felix was part of such a group, given that they had a base in the same island where the group that took Talbot had a base years ago. That such group existed in the multiverse was something that has been built with the tomes for a while ago, so I am not surprised that they became relevant for backstories, and from what we know, they don't exist in every reality, just at best in the reality of the Observer and the main one where Felix and Talbot are (that may be the same).
And about the fact that they sent Talbot to the opium den, I interpret that action as them disliking his growing obsession, perhaps his need to show their knowledge to the world or the danger of what he found, and deciding to make him disappear before he became trouble. I don’t think that they intended for the Entity to take him, just for him to eventually die.
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I understand if you feel unconformable about the devs using a real life conflict and crimes in a backstory, but technically, they have already done similar stuff with the Huntress in World War 1 and the Doctor all but confirming to have been part of the MKUltra experiment and his character heavily based on a real life doctor from China.
-I mean, not really. Killers are the villains of the game, their stories can show them as sympathetic, but it is not necessary for you to feel empathy about them. For example, you are not mean to empathize with the Doctor, a much worse human being than Talbot.
-His Backstory is focused on explaining the aspects of his character that would eventually doom him to the Realm and make him a Killer, how he obsesses easily in his search for knowledge and stars learning to ignore his conscience and the consequences of those actions in pursuit of that goal. We already knew a lot of details about his time in the Realm, but we didn’t know who he was before all of that.
For me, is not an issue because not only the conflict is very old, more importantly, Talbolt is still a fictional character whose crimes weren’t an event that happened in our reality, even if they happen in a real life conflict and had an inspiration from real ones, is similar to the awful stuff that Herman did.
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@Raven014 said:
The hallowed blight lore makes refrence to the fact that the Entity took him from the trials... to where, or why, we really have no clue.
That was resolved in the next blight event, where it was shown that he was thrown into the Void, spent some time there and eventually made a deal with the Entity to get out, implying that he was going to become a Killer. My theory is that the Alchemist will be sent against the Observer and will probably not be a playable killer for some times, perhaps building him up as some super Killer of some kind.
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@Dabihwow said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1506011#Comment_1506011
I personally think the alchemist is Vigo
The issue is that in the next lore(that I forgot to include), the alchemist talks about finding info from Vigo himself, so it doesn't make sense for him to be Vigo:
I discovered a hidden laboratory while running away from a monster. Its stocks are uncommonly plentiful. I observed shelves of alkaloids, crates of silver syringes, piles of protective clothes and a journal signed “Vigo”. Its pages are filled with notes on an ancient force that controls the nature of this place—that shapes it. I also noted a few drawings of the growing cankers I've seen on trees.
I should have foreseen his escape, given the potent dosage I administered him, but I needed to see results. Pustula flowers are now blooming on the path leading to the laboratory. According to Vigo's Journal, this rapid spread is a sign that the blight is at its peak. Soon, there will be no more putrid nectar to extract.
Based on Vigo's calculations, tonight is my last chance. I filled a syringe with the last drops of serum and injected it into my arm.
I looked for Vigo. I shouted his name with no concern for the monsters lurking about. I need to find him… I picture the scene, etching a canvas of wild lines in my mind, focusing on the moon and I know—something is off. I fed the dead rodent under my pillow.
Besides, I seem to remember devs talking about Vigo being the one responsible for the creation of the hatch, the gens and other stuff, which the Entity took inspiration to use in the trails.
Who is Benedict Baker and Vigo?
Mathieu - "These would actually fill a few books."
Dave - "These characters have been there for a long time. Vigo has been, and Benedict is, a Survivor. It's established that Benedict is still in the realm of The Entity, still surviving. He's someone who, in the real world, was looking into finding The Entity's realm. We know [Vigo] is a researcher, inventor. Out of the quotes in the game, we know he invented some of the contraptions. He also researched the biological aspect of The Entity."
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That is unlikely, considering that in the first batch of lore about the Alchemist before the tomes, the one thing that he remembered before the trials was being in opium dens, something that as far as we know, Benedict had contact, given that he disappeared while searching info about the crimes that Evan caused. That lore also shows that he is not Vigo either, as the info that he gains from the petals is from stuff that Vigo left behind:
It is impossible to describe the horrifying scenes I have witnessed... death and misery, in every shape of terror, rule this place. I can no longer recall how I have come to this place. All I remember is the opaque, milky fumes of opium in the murky den hazing a sweet, welcoming abyss. I awoke to dreadful screams in this endless night, at the feet an old tree that leaked foul-smelling fluids. I know not how to reach those poor souls, nor do I want to. Keeping a record is all I can do to make sense of it.
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Well, onis had shown to be depicted as having third eyes in the japanese mythology, so that can be a reason. However, in the DBD lore, it is something that the Spirit shows in her “Blazing Lineage” as well, and is described as her “birtright”. So in my opinion, the eye is a symbol of the curse that Kazan put in his bloodline with his bloodlust and this eye is something like the mark of the Entity in Kazan and the Yamaoka. My headcanon is that the mask (or the eye if he already had the mask) was given to him when he was taken and it was what initially gave him his supernatural powers.
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@End_of_Slayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1476988#Comment_1476988
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1478061#Comment_1478061
Based on certain parts of outfits, they are all correct. Now, I'm not saying 100% that they are all lore relevant, but for example, demon Oni was used. That one could be a alternate timeline where he was literally becoming the thing he hated. Another example of this is Susie's Lunar Event cosmetic where it says she wore that cosmetic to kill people. Yet Susie only killed the Janitor, and no one else during her original backstory, hell even in the new lore Susie only caused mayhem and injuries, no deaths.
I tried explaining Legion's tome awhile ago, I think there are two distinct possibilities on why it is such a big retcon to the original, because they can easily read the original and base it off that. I think that either its a different timeline, which explains why Julie came up with the name, why Joey is one of Julie's best friends, instead of a random party goer. Why the death of the janitor is so vastly different. Or, it's Julie remembering specific details wrong. Frank came up with the name, obviously, because we have Jeff creating the mural. So Julie creating the name moments before or the day of the janitor's death makes no sense. Another problem, Julie slaughters the janitor without Susie or Joey taking a stab at him. Which didn't happen, so it could be Julie remembering herself in this way instead of a coward to impress Frank. Remember, these are memories lost to the fog, meaning they have a chance to be different. If it's one person, we have to believe it is right. If it's a group of people like Legion, we have to assume details will be wrong. They will remember all of it differently than each other based on what they want the other's to think of themselves.
Yeah, the alternative timelines was basically confirmed with the Jeff outfit from a dystopian earth and of course, is obvious that some outfits are not the canon characters,like the Trapper was never a sea zombie with a hook in his head, for example.¡
The Legion I see it more like you said, Julie remembering things from her own point of view differently, they say that they are going to make tomes for each member of the legion, so they could do more scenes showing the death of the janitor, although I think it could get boring quickly, having the same cutscene over and over.
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@Zaitsev said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/165401/ph-and-myers
Michael has the strongest will of any of the killers. He is the only killer to have been unbroken. He operates with more or less complete autonomy. He doesnt need the Entity to tell him to kill. Hell, even Freddy has to ask permission to kill a survivor via a Mori
Technically, he is seeking permission because to kill, he needs to offer an add-on to the campfire, which is something that the Entity gives to survivors and killers. The Killers that actually don’t need permission of the Entity to kill are besides Pyramid Head, the Spirit and the Hag, because they are using their own perks, their own powers, to do the act.
And he is not the only unbroken killer, Ghostface,Legion,Clown, Huntress,Oni and Hillbilly were not broken in any way by the Entity.
@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1462864#Comment_1462864
More people need to be reminded of the separation between gameplay and lore more often. Lore provides the context in the world, while the also justifying its presence in the game. Meanwhile, the gameplay has nothing to do with the story (in this case).
Yeah, it is clear that the gameplay and the lore are two very different beasts and comparing them is a complicated task. Like, if you look at the trailers, despite being something noted to exist in the lore, the red stain is never shown in cinematics, and my headcanon is that is something that just doesn’t happens 100% of the time, but the real reason is because they are not going to bother to include balance stuff in a cinematic and it would probably look weird. That said, the terror radius is a bit more consistent, but it also tends to be absent.
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The Hillbilly descriptions come from outfits, his initial lore (the part about the animals) and the rest is in the maps descriptions, that is basically a gold mine of lore, specially at the beginning, they put a lot of lore there.
@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1475927#Comment_1475927
I think it makes more sense for those with glowing eyes (besides Doc) to just have hatred as their primary motivator, more than anything else.
Billy, I don't think, is smart enough to know why he was hurt, and have a reason to actually hurt them. He just hurts others because he knows nothing else.
Wraith: He hated himself.
Spirit: she cursed vengeance, but she was just more furious of everything in general, and, on top of that, it seems to have been an ancestral thing, at least based off her archive lore... and the Awakened Origin set also seems to indicate that as well.
Caleb: He was a bounty hunter/engineer with a penchant for causing pain.
Until there are details to back up that theory, such as some lore from Rins perspective, we will never know what they see.
I think the Awakened Origins is meant to be a what if scenario and not part of the canon, because it implies that Rin went into an eventual rampage after beating the students due to losing herself in the bloodlust curse. Even if those descriptions are meant to happen just after she became a spirit, it wouldn’t work because her generic outfit is her wearing what she wore the night that she was killed.
Outfits descriptions are a bit tricky, because clearly some of them are not canon, other are and other seems to be what if. Like the other outfit in the collections of the Awakened Origins is the Oni, which we know is not canon, because the Oni never literally transformed into a demon, he started looked like one, but that looks was the base set of the character( and he was always a muscular giant), he didn’t seem to gain literal horns and start eating little kids.
And now that you said that, is one of the issues with the lore archives is that, besides the observations, we don’t have a perspective on the trials and specifically, on the killers, like their tomes are their backstories and stuff, but we are not going to see how Wraith is dealing being trapped in the realms, for example, so is not very probable that we get a point of view of the Spirit.
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@End_of_Slayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1472819#Comment_1472819
I agree that there are holes in the theory, and while yes, it's possible that I'm wrong, there's no harm in speculation. But the theory can still prevail given some details.You commented on Hillbilly being an indiscriminate killer, which while true, doesn't explain why he would randomly kill the farmer. Maybe he was protecting his home, but the farmer didn't do anything wrong to him, so why randomly kill this one person? I get the Entity probably forced him to do it, but if he was still human before being taken, why randomly kill them?
Yes, Wraith definitely seems outset as a vengeful warrior to right the wrong, but remember, the theory talks about survivors only, meaning it probably wouldn't affect a killer because they are all basically working together, plus, the Entity feeds off any emotion. So if it sensed Wraith was in love with Nurse, then by all means, let them be in love, it just gets more nourishment from that.
While Spirit is basically an Onryo, it doesn't sit right with me that she kills innocents without attacking the one that wronged her. She really only wants her father dead, and while the spirit attacks anyone living, it just doesn't make sense she attacks and has Grudges (the score event for hitting a survivor out of your power) against these survivors that haven't done anything. But yet again, could be another case of the Entity just consuming all of their humanity leaving them just a hollow shell, a puppet for a puppeteer if you will.
Oni I was just throwing out as a maybe. I didn't think he saw survivors as false samurai because he has the black eyes found in killers that enjoy killing, mainly Huntress and Clown. Hell, he's one of the strongest killers but the easiest one to get rage out of. Which is why his whole power is basically him getting extremely mad but he doesn't care because he can still honor his name by killing.
Caleb just made sense because why would he see others at the end of the trail? But like you said, he would figure out he had killed them already. But maybe sanity isn't the problem and it's more of vengeance and humanity. He wouldn't care if they were the same so long as he got revenge. Or he just has no humanity left meaning he wouldn't care about killing them over and over, he still gets what he wants in the end.
Yeah it definitely seems like it has no problems with controlling the killers. PH and Michael are examples, and it's not like they can bring an uprising, they'll be tossed into the void immediately. And the Observer seems to have gown down the path of insanity recently, if he doesn't know what to believe anymore, how can we be certain that ending the trials will end the Entity once and for all? On paper it makes sense, get rid of the only way it can get nourishment, and you succeed. But if the Entity sees this coming, it can easily stop them, or just let it go on and quickly create a fail-safe in case anything goes wrong.
Oh, there is nothing wrong with the theory per se, just that personally, not a fan of some aspect of it. About Hillbilly, the lore implies that it kills because is jealous of the freedom that others enjoyed while he was trapped in his room:
After the deed was done, he continued to live his life at the farm, taking out his deranged violence on the animals that were allowed to run free. As he finally broke free from his shackles he ran through the cornfields, chasing and slaughtering whatever he could find. They never found the bodies of Max and Evelyn, but they did find tortured and disembowelled animals all over the farm.
We know that he killed plenty of people that came to the farm and may even went out to attack others:
There was some kid who used to wear a jacket just like this. He went for a drive one day and never made it home.
He repurposed a broken firework launcher into a weapon to bludgeon sozzled partygoers at the local trailer park.
The Silo is one of the oldest remaining buildings that made up Coldwind Farm. The great storm of 2003 brought the ancient structure crashing down. It was weeks later that searchers discovered twelve bodies that were buried in the ruins. Their crushed corpses were buried deep in the slurry that oozed out from the base and made identification almost impossible.
In my opinion, is a combination of defending his territory, not having empathy towards others and being very angry towards the rest of the world, that he probably sees in a similar light to his parents, because they were the only human contact that he had in his life, and they were awful to him, so why wouldn’t strangers be as awful as his parents? In his mind, it would be better to just kill them.
The thing with Wraith is that contrary to Caleb, he didn’t seem to be obsessed with revenge, more on the fact that he killed innocents and that damned him forever:
Returning to the place where it all began, he contemplates the time when he was a decent human being.
Rusted steel weaves and slices along his body, sharp edges scraping with each moment. It was the same fate as his victims he fed into the crusher, though they may have been granted the mercy of death.
The darkness burns brightly within. With it comes the anger and violence of a man compelled to kill.
And one of the outfits implies that he has been consumed by those negative feelings, so there wouldn’t be need to fool him given his state, but we know very little of who he was or even what happened after he killed his boss, because I don’t think it was, that he killed his boss and went to the realm, no something happened to him.
About Spirit, I tend to compare to Kayako of the Grudge, where is a similar deal where a victim becomes a vengeful ghost, but stalks and attacks everyone that enters her house, even if they had nothing to do with her death. Rin has a similar modus operandi, as technically, she is haunting her old home because killers tend to stay in their realms, with some exceptions (Clown and Ghostface):
"When someone dies in the grip of a powerful rage... a curse is born. The curse gathers in that place of death. Those who encounter it will be consumed by its fury. "
— The Grudge
And I think that she is just in an extreme emotional state that makes her lash out against everyone that she sees because they happen to be in the way, seeking revenge on the fact that they live and she didn’t. The dead haunting the living because they hate then for having the ability to enjoy life while they can’t is a common plot and motive in fiction.
About Caleb, my interpretation is that, like Zarina that also saw stuff, it was an invitation and a way to entrap them into entering the realm, but although as I said, I like more the idea that Caleb is like a bounty hunter of the Realms, hunting the survivors like the bounties in his past (I doubt that Caleb would care if you were truly guilty of the crime that you were accused of) and collecting coins and inventing stuff, as my headcanon is that the gates of his realm are an invention that he thought of and the entity made it real, and I could see him, Amanda and possibly Max working on inventing stuff to torture people.
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I always had issues with this theory that the Entity controls what some killer see and is all about the eyes. Personally, I dislike that it takes agency from some of the killers and because it goes against some of the Entity’s corruption, that yes, uses every tool available to control killers, but its deal is that it corrupts people, it makes them into worse monsters, slowly taking away their humanity, not just by torture or coercion, but the nature of the Entity itself makes people worse, which we see in the Archives:
The Entity is the cosmic embodiment of evil. Back home we witnessed how its very presence turns worlds inside out… how it seems to remove or extinguish any sense of empathy or compassion within communities… how it brings people to the brink of madness and… well… pushes them in.
And that said, I don’t believe it, because at the end of the day, the eyes are a design choice and not all characters with glowing eyes are consistent in the “they believe that they are killing their revenge targets over and over” idea:
-Hillbilly has glowing eyes, but he has shown to be an indiscriminate killer in his backstory and archive entry(in observations), so there is no reason for making him see things.
-We know from outfits descriptions that the Wraith is aware of what he has become and is more of a “revenge against the world and hating what I become” theme with him, that not knowing that he is killing innocents:
Wrap your face in the blood-stained cloth of your prey and take to the shadows to stalk your next victim.
And if he was blinded by the Entity, I don’t think he would have the agency to form a relationship with the Nurse.
-Spirit is described as an onryō, a undead that seeks revenge against all of the living for her state and what she suffered. Even the stuff about the one that actually caused her pain being untouched seems to be basic onryo lore:
The Spirit draws her power from their wrath, haunting the living as retribution for her suffering.
Proper attire for a proper ceremony. No one gets out alive.
-The Oni is the one character that is basically confirmed that is not seeing things. As we know that he is aware and dislikes the existence of the Entity, knowing that is using tricks to make him angry:
Kazan shuddered with rage as he stepped into the area. Unable to restrain himself, he unleashed his might on a statue atop the shrine, clubbing its arms and head to pieces. Even after he left, a rot seemed to pervade the air. The chime of bells played softly on the wind, as everything around them crumbled. Torn from Kazan's memories, the shrine now stood on the estate of this childhood home - a trick by the Entity that infuriated him even more.
He doesn't need to be fooled to think that the survivors are unfit people that don’t deserve to live,their existence in the realm is probably proof enough for someone like Kazan, that loves to blame people for his own issues.
-Deathslinger is the one that I think fits the most, but again, there is not 100% proof that is the case, given that Caleb still seems sane enough to know that if he saw the survivors as the people that wronged him, people that he kills time and time again, he would know that is just an illusion and that he is killing normal people in reality. So he would have to not care about killing strangers no matter what.
And about controlling killers, I don’t think that the Entity has trouble with that or at the very least, has anything to fear from them. What can PH or Myers do if they rebel? Nothing, the Entity is a cosmic entity well above their paygrade and at the end of the day, even PH, despite making a deal and probably having more freedom than others, is still a tool for the Entity. Even the Observer, that started thinking that he could take out the Entity, that his position gave him a chance to defeat it and that the Entity was just an Ancient One, found “something” about it that made him lose all hope, realize that he was wrong about most stuff about it and almost go mad:
Life is not life in this prison, and death is not an escape. It is merely the start of a new trial and most survivors are aware they are caught in something they will never understand. Why this is all happening is no longer obvious to me. The truth is… I don't know what to believe anymore… The Entity is… not what it is… or what I thought it was…
And the thing is, the Entity has way more killers and survivors than what we see in game, like, it is described as taking over the populations of entire planets, so at the very least,it has hundreds or thousands of different killers and survivors running around, so one or two rebelling wouldn’t change much. You need to take out the very system itself of the trials to cause some real damage to the Entity.
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@myers_obsession said:
Sad to say that but I don't believe that it has something to do with lore. It's just a Gameplay mechanic. Trapper was the first killer, they improved after time. For example hillbilly. His chainsaw disappeares while carrying a surv. Pyramid Head holds his weapon on the other hand.
Of course, the true reason is gameplay mechanics, but there are a lot of gameplay mechanics integrated into the lore, like the red stain or heartbeat, were fully explained in the lore, despite being in the game 100% for gameplay reasons. Even if you can obviously say “just gameplay”, that doesn’t really matter to the lore, because gameplay doesn’t exist in the story, so there has to be a reason in universe for those actions, like we know that the Oni can just make his sword appear and disappear and we know that you can literally do that in the lore with the manipulation of the auric cells.
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My impression is that it only deletes the memory of dying, but they retain some memories of the rest of the trials, perhaps the more mechanical stuff, like totems or doing gens, but they don’t know that they did, so the Entity can savor their emotions. However, they still lose a bit of “hope” after each death, so even if they don’t remember, they start losing their emotions little by little, until they go into the Void.
Another explanation is that, in a previous tome, the Observer talked about how they were rare survivors that retained the memories after dying, and in some cases, went mad because of it:
Several Survivors went mad trying to escape the trial. They had with them memories of previous incarnations so that one Survivor began dashing his head against a wall convinced he was reliving a nightmare he had just escaped. The other Survivors drowned him in mud to shut him up. It seems to me Survivors are torches growing dimmer and dimmer with every trial. Some stop to feel altogether and are doomed to The Void. Others go raving mad and need to be silenced by others.
This could explain why Benedict retained his memories after death, as he was one of those “lucky ones” and thus could understand how the trial worked. In my opinion, I am not 100% convinced with the inclusion of the “memory delete” thing, because it takes a way a little of the horror of knowing that death is not an escape, but it made sense that the Entity would want them to think that every death is final.
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@Mikeadatrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1184665#Comment_1184665
Caleb didn't torture people though. He made the Redeemer less lethal on purpose. He was called a vigilante by the devs and there's a newspaper article ingame that questions the morality of the Hellshire Gang, questioning whether they were heroes or outlaws themselves.
Zarina investigates the Mad Mick Massacre in the prison because the only details that exist about it come from the story about an Irish outlaw that heartlessly slaughtered the warden but we, the player, find out that is not what happened. Caleb was a bounty hunter who was ethnically abused and was robbed multiple times because he was viewed as less than dirt. He worked for the Warden and when the Warden screwed him over and robbed him of his justice (he didn't even want to kill Bayshore at this point, just wanted him to rot in prison) that's when he snapped. Bayshore, in the addons, belittles and insults Caleb despite the fact that Caleb is considered to be the Da Vinci of the West by the Devs. Caleb is not evil and I'm still sticking to my guns when I say that the white eyes on the two killers who can either be seen as innocent during their life or morally gray (Rin and Caleb) is far from just an aesthetic choice. If anything, the coins most likely serve as a way for Caleb to remember that he is being paid to enact this vengeance, which fuels him even more because he sure as ######### knows he is good at his job and if you love your job, you'll never work a day in your life.
Plus, how can you discount those last few sentences in the Deathslinger's lore? They pretty much prove that the Entity can make killers see the people they hate the most.
I leave you with a reminder about the deal the Entity made with Rin. Why would she want to kill innocent people when the Entity promised her revenge on her dad? She's not a murderer like Myers, Trapper, etc. It's all a farce to feed a primordial space monster for an eternity.
The first prototypes were disemboweling people, and even as a young child, he was imagining designs that would torture his bullies. Hell, one of his lore images have him testing the Redeemer in a guy (and I say testing, because the guy is caught, so clearly he doesn’t need it to catch him):
Yes, there was certain discussion about the bounty hunter gang, but that is because they were bounty hunters and as I said, Caleb was a pragmatic person (which is why he made his weapon less lethal, because the deal was to bring people alive), so he probably didn’t do too much unlawful stuff, but that still doesn’t make him good. Yes, some saw them as justice seekers, but there is a reason for the other part of the article.
The last paragraph don’t confirm anything, given that Zarina had a similar vision of the corpse of her father, so the Entity was just using that spot to manipulate both of them, one to attract him and the other to ######### her, but is no confirmation that anything that Caleb is seeing in the Realm is like that.
Rin may not be 100% faithfully to the image of an onryō (although I think she is, we know that magic exist outside of the entity), but that doesn’t mean that she doesn’t share some of their attributes, like being in a constant state of rage and feeling hatred against the world and everyone else for their fate. We saw in the archives how her familiar ties with the Oni made her lash out against people in rage and had unwanted thoughts that didn’t made sense with her personality, so she is now like that, 100% of the time, so full of rage and hatred that she doesn’t care about anything but making anyone suffer.
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I am going to be in the minority here because I dislike the “killers with glowing eyes are seeing what the entity wants to and not the survivors” because it makes the Killers less their own characters and more puppets that can’t really interact with the survivors, with only the Spirit being the only one where it more or less fits with her nature, but even then, she can work perfectly without it. Also, I don’t think there is anything concrete that truly confirms the theory, because there is no confirmation that the Killers see anything but reality. Yes, there are certain thematic connections between some of the Killers, like the Spirit and Caleb both wanting revenge, but they are explored very differently:
Rin was a good person that suffered an awful trauma and was so blinded by her emotions, her anger tat she was consumed by them, and now she is forever trapped in that emotional state.
Caleb was someone that let himself be consumed by vengeance since he was a child, so he was never blinded by them, more that he didn’t care about the consequences. As an adult, he was an awful person, torturing and killing people for coins or because they pissed him off, yes, he did it as a legal bounty hunter, but that was more him being pragmatic than any moral issue.
So I can see Caleb killing random people if he believes that there is something for him, and there is in this case, with the Entity giving him coins for his job, which wouldn’t make sense if he is just manipulating him:
A glass-like coin moulded from the Fog itself. A payment to the bounty hunter for the services rendered.
I think the eyes are just an aesthetic choice, specially when certain cosmetics change the eyes of the Killers, like Trapper for example, gains white eyes in one of the cosmetics, despite having black eyes in his regular self. The glowing eyes in the Deathslinger are more to make him look different from a normal cowboy than any lore implications.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1138075#Comment_1138075
I've always known what the premise was as it's my favourite part of the game's lore, and until now I was having quite a lot of trouble trying to find the passage that mentions survivors becoming killers. And now I realise why.
They literally rewrote the official wiki without telling anyone.
In this guide, in the "Customs and Traditions", a quote from the wiki is mentioned from how it was at the time. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=950545138
"With each passing death a little of the survivor's soul is lost. Eventually as all hope evaporates, the survivor becomes less and less useful to the Entity, slowly devolving into a cold and emotionless shell.These lost survivors, whose hope has long since left them, eventually become what they once feared so much: the very killers that hunted them."And here's what that passage is now.
With each passing death, a little bit of the Survivor's soul is lost. Eventually as all hope evaporates, the Survivor becomes less and less useful to The Entity, slowly devolving into a cold and emotionless shell. Those lost Survivors, whose hope has long since left them, were eventually thrown into a limbo realm known as "The Void".I don't know what I'm more livid about.
How they completely discarded a brilliant idea or how they did it WITHOUT ######### TELLING ANYONE.
How is a source from a wiki(that anyone can edit) proof that the devs retconned their lore? Because looking through the lore streams and the lore in their official page, there was never an official confirmation that survivors became Killers after being drained of hope. The closest thing we had was Baker speculating what would happened and his guess that Trapper may had been a survivor once, but that is all that there was about it, in universe guesses from a source that lacked a lot of information:
With each “death” I feel myself weaker, a little piece of my soul devoured by the darkness before I awake. I fear, eventually that I will lose hope. I wonder, then, what this dark entity will do with me then. I want to find out, but I fear the answer.
I came seeking answers but I drown in riddles instead. I know not how long I will be able to carry on. I have all the time in the world. But only during the small pauses that I am granted. During the hunt my time is restraint. I learn more and more. But my hope and sanity depletes faster and faster. What am to become of me? Have the killers started out at this campfire too? I bid this journal adieu. I must focus on staying alive.
And the fact that Survivors go into the Void after losing hope is not proof that now Survivors can’t become Killers. We have a canon example in the Alchemist so it is possible for that to happen, but the Entity needs an incentive to do it and the survivor needs to have the potential and state of mind to transform into one, which I think makes much more sense than survivors transforming into Killers no matter what. I would think that is the same as the Entity choosing Killers in the real world, they have to had some “killer potential” or darkness inside them that the Entity can exploit.
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In one of the entries of the Spirit, she mentioned that his father is acting aggresive and cold towards her and her mom, and she finds that strange because he usually never acted that way before, so with that info, is very implied that scene is probably past her lore entries, where the father is already being affected by the stress and the corruption of the Entity and is starting to physically snap.
I don’t think that is retconing anything, as it doesn’t seem that the father was a bad person before slowly succumbing to madness, so the abuse is another unfortunate effect of the corruption and eventual snap.
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My problem with Legion is how unnecessary frustrating they are to play. Yes, they have their strengths and they are not literal trash, but even in their best moments, when they are at their most fun, they are still just a shadow of the fun that you had when playing Old Legion. Because before, they felt fast, like you were in a frenzy , but now? Now they just had too many restrictions to their powers to capture that same feeling, something your powers hinders you more than it helps you, you don’t feel powerful while using it.
And I know, that is because Legion now is a different type of Killer, but I still think that is an inferior, less fun and boring Killer. Yes, Old Legion was broken, and it need a fix, but they could have done much better than this in my opinion. I remember people posting tons of interesting ideas for their rework, to make them fair and fun for both sides and still capture the spirit of the killer, but in my opinion, the devs did the minimum that they could have done to “fix” them, and because they seem content with what that, we have now a more generic Killer.
But really, what bothers me the most that all of those restrictions were there to fix the issues with Old Legion, but despite the character changing so much that it can not be played like Old Legion at all, those restrictions still exist, and could be taken away and Legion would still be balanced.
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1012350#Comment_1012350
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1012361#Comment_1012361
Then how about my add-on? Do you like it?
As an add-on it seems fine, better than some red add-ons that we have got lately.
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Billy is pretty balanced and doing this to him would not only make him weaker for no reason, but also less fun to play. Adding cooldowns is the most lazy and boring way to “balance” a Killer, so no thanks.
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They can be fun, but he could be much more fun and actually decent to play. And Old Legion was way more fun, in my opinion. Yes, they were broken, but the fun part didn’t come from that, but from other aspects that the devs nerfed for no reason.
Right now, they just did the bare minimum necessary to fix them, but they could do much more: Speed boost when chaining hits, reasonable cooldowns, basic hits not taking half of your power…
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@PigNRun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1003670#Comment_1003670
Then what does the bandaged fist imply other than Evan himself punching that person?
Plus, if he did survive the mine collapsing, they would have illustrated him with a lot more injuries. Knuckle bruises heal a lot faster than any possible injury from having rocks fall on top of you, therefore we know for sure the last scene is the day after (or within the following days at most).
We did not see the extent of the damage and how was hurt after the collapse, so it is possible that the hand was the worst that he got. Or it was just made that way for the symbolism with his father. We also see a shadow moving away when he wakes up, which is cleary meant to be the father that saved him from the incident.
Regardless, even if that were the case and Evan did kill workers, the timelines still not makes sense with the outfit, because Evan clearly is a young adult there, that only rejected his friends when he thought that they betrayed him, not while he was a teenager, where he is more or less sane and normal.
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@EmpathyModule said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1002425#Comment_1002425
I never took the 'traps' Evan would make for employees as deadly, but more like pranks. They were his friends, after all. Plus, a 'delinquent' doesn't murder.
As for Claudette, tutoring programs are often run by students. In my school I knew more senior tutors than graduate tutors
Fair with Claudette,but I don’t buy the Trapper explanation at all, the description don’t talk about innocent games, but more of a hunt, like he is killing employers for fun.
I mean, he is wielding a blade and wants to caught unsuspecting employers in traps while they are working in a very unsafe mine.
@PigNRun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1002425#Comment_1002425
The video of Evan's father punching that man didnt actually happen. It was a dream of Evan killing his father from the point of view of one of the miners.
That is an interpretation, but I think is much more probable that what we saw actually happened: We know that employers were disappearing from the charms, that his father was already a serial killer by the archives (killing his wife and brother) and that the Trapper only killed his father when he was an adult and in charge of the mines (while in the cutscene, he is more of a young adult). In my opinion, what happened is that after seeing his father killing the workers, he was rescued by him after the ceiling collapsed, and Evan was surprised after realizing that his father had saved his life despite what he saw.
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1ºYes, it is mentioned that the Entity also feeds on all emotions and feelings, and not only that of survivors, but Killers as well, like their bloodlust, for example.
If The Entity off of hope, are the Survivors supposed to escape? By escaping, the Survivors are on a high, only to be thrown back without realizing that they are truly trapped in an endless loop. The Killers are just there to enhance this illusion, and the Survivors won't get eaten at the hook but rescued by The Entity so the cycle can continue.
Dave - "A long time ago, we said that The Entity's feeding on the hope. It's more than that. It's feeding on strong emotion: the Killer's rage, desperation, hope, affection between Survivors... What you are theorizing here is false. The Killers have their reason to be there."
Dave - "Even though there's interaction between Survivors, Killers, and The Entity, it's not watching a game or having specific rules. You can imagine that anything that gives Bloodpoints is something that feeds The Entity."
2ºA lore question from back in the day talked about this and how the first trials were very experimental and a failure:
Who is the first Killer that has been taken by The Entity, and are we gonna see him/her or know who it is?
Dave - "I have no idea. It's not something we've talked about."
Mathieu - "Time is a fluid concept; so that question makes no sense, quantumly."
Dave - "I think it's something to explore later. I'm guessing that when [The Entity] started to be in our world, there's probably been trial and error. So maybe the first Killer is not a success...?"
3ºAnd about the people,well, they ended in the Void or died from old age, which seems to happen. In the archives, it is revealed that the Entity has taken the population of entire planets, so probably there is an uncountable number of survivors and killers that have existed in the Realm.
4ºUnknown, in the Archives that is part of the quest of the Observer, to find someone that has done it.
5ºThe Entity seems to choose people that are willing or at least have the potential to kill, and it has shown the ability to slowly corrupt people (the father of the Spirit, for example) into killing or falling to madness. So generally, Killers wouldn’t have a trouble killing (a least they would have to be convinced to kill for the Entity) so that probably isn’t common, and if it were to happen, in my opinion, the Entity would just thrown into the Void if torture and corruption doesn’t work.
Although that question was also answered by the devs:
If The Killers can feel pain, does that mean they can die in The Entity's realm?
Dave - "Yeah. The Entity has a more intimate relation with Killers. A Killer that doesn't want to participate could be put into submission by The Entity."
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With the release of the “Switch” Trapper outfit, I am starting to think that that descriptions is not exactly canon and those similar to it that are taking about past of the character are more what if, because they tend to be contradictory from what we know, like in the Trapper, the description said that he was basically already dressing up and putting traps in the mines against employers as a teen, which doesn’t fit at all with not only what we found about him in the Archives, but also contradicts the video in which the father is the one secretly killing his employers:
And really, even some survivor outfits are dubious, like the one where Claudette wins a prize, except in canon she was still in college when she was taken:
Same with the New Year outfit of the Hillbilly, because those burns are never to be seen in his normal outfit, so he should have them if that did happen given that I doubt Billy has the means to treat himself. So, with that info, it is safe to think that this info is not exactly canon, more of a what if.
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I think that this is a bit too much for the Legion pre-Janitor. Yes, they were already a gang for a time, so probably caused a lot of damage and hurt people, but the impression that I got from the initial backstory was that the incident with the janitor was the biggest thing that they did, where someone was really affected and they could not go back from that, the first blood, sort of speak...
But from here, it almost makes it as bad as the murder of the Janitor, because Susie just left that men to bleed out in the open in an alley, so she may have killed him. And even Frank only attacked the Janitor at first to protect Julie(that I think could fit better the crime, as she was the closest to Frank and thus, to darkness), but here is Susie, making him seen innocent in comparison.
In my opinion, I would prefer if they made the implications of the crime less severe, that yes, it is bad, she stabbed him and stole the money of the guy, but is not that severe and make it clear that the guy will live.
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@AAAAA said:
So I've somehow been able to get all of the Revelations unlocked, and honestly it was a bit anticlimactic. Here's what I got out of each entry:
1. There's an Entity cult in some version(s) of Earth
2. This one might be a hint at a future killer, although idk how they would make a "seduce and feed to pigs" mechanic. Also, there's something called Terra Dark, which I assume is one of those alternate Earths
3. Something seems to have happened that has reshaped what The Observer thinks The Entity is. No idea what.
If you've gotten anything else from Revelations or disagree with my conclusions, let me know!
About the female killer of Terra Dark, she is probably a reference to the real life serial killer Belle Gunness: A norwegian woman that lived around the end of the 19th century in America, where she contacted men through an ad, and in letters, convinced them to give her their possessions and money(even going to the bank). After that, she would kill them and bury their bodies in her pig pens, starting all over again with a new, unsuspecting victim.
She is so similar that I wouldn’t be surprised if she is mean to be her, and not just a reference.
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You know, I understand when people say that Remake Freddy being a pedophile makes him a worse character than the original,as is such an awful and disgusting act...but you know, being a child murderer is not exactly that better either. Both are crimes that puts those that perpetrate them as nothing more than scum that deserves nothing but scorn, and for all of his charisma and ham, Original Freddy is as much as a disgusting ######### as his remake counterpart. Remember, the only thing that the creators did is not confirm that he was a pedophile, but is still implied that he was one, and you still things like the telephone scene, where Freddy basically sexually assaults a teen or licks the picture of a little girl that he killed:
https://youtu.be/ff0Y3U2mkyE https://youtu.be/MHCiUj796VM -
@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/893737#Comment_893737
Legion's been shown to be the latter, I think, but I think they made a huge missed opportunity by not letting them have other members as ambushes.
Where do they confirm that they are the first? Because I remember that the lore implied the opposite, that they are no longer their own person: Their dialogue is always cited as Legion and they talk about themselves in plural:
"There's no getting out of this now. We're too good at it." — The Legion
"Smartasses get killed. We always see to that." — The Legion
"This is no place for cowards." — The Legion
There is no running away from The Legion.
There is no need to hide. We have the strength of numbers.
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I don’t think that all killers are mindless killing machines, they have shown the ability to give some kind of mercy to survivors depending on the occasion (Clown and Pig), so I think it could happen depending on the Killer and the circumstances of the encounter, but it would be a very rare thing to happen and the Entity, at best, would probably allow it to happen one time to feed on that hope, forcing the killer to do it if they meet a second time.
In the current roster, the Killers that could have the free will and human minds are too evil to care (Myers,Clown,Ghostface,Freddy,Doctor) and others are too inhuman, mentally broken or dependant on the Entity to do it (Hillbilly,Leatherface,Demogorgon,Spirit,Hag,Plague,Trapper, Nurse). So I think that the most likely to do it are:
Oni: Kazan has shown to not have any love for the Entity, knowing that he is being manipulated, has shown to remember things from his past and with his respect and admiration for his family, unless he is blinded by rage, I don’t think that he would kill a family member close to him (again), like his son for example.
Legion:They are difficult case, because we don’t really know a lot about their mental state, as they could be mentally (and even physically) fused into one, with no identity left but the Legion, or they are still their own individual beings, that have become addicted to the adredaline of hunting and killing. In the first case, no chance, but in the second, there could be a chance, depending on what member of the gang.
Pig:She already did to a stranger once, and I think that Amanda wouldn’t attack someone like John Kramer.
Huntress:She doesn’t kills on purpose little girls and I don’t see her hunting her own mother if she were to meet her.
Wraith: He has shown to have a lot of self-hatred and be ashamed of what he did in life, so I think he has enough humanity in him to not kill someone close to him.
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In the original lore, it is implied and almost confirmed that it was the massacre of the miners what allowed the Entity to create a connection between its realm and the “real world”. That, combined with Archie being a very old man, with limited mobility and senile, could mean that the motivation of the Entity to pick the less evil and conflicted Evan was just a pragmatic one: Archie wasn’t good villain material anymore, while Evan was young and full of greater emotions and turmoil to feed. Yes, the Entity could have just restored Archie, but spent “resources” on that when you can have a more cheaper and stronger Killer with his son?
Of course, this if, by the time that the Entity entered the world, Archie wasn’t already long dead after being left for dead by Evan (possible, I agree that Evan may have left him there as a late revenge for his abuse), which could have happened or not. It is implied that the default mask of the Trapper is made of the bones of his father or at the very least, he clearly did spent time doing something to his body:
Archie MacMillan's remains were later found. A silent skeleton with a taunting man-made grin upon his meatless skull.
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@pichumudkip said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/232159#Comment_232159
Using this logic, then what about Plague/Adiris? The only "violent" attempt she had was cutting off a toe so someone wouldn't be able to get the plague. Adiris never had any violent intentions and actually left her home so people wouldn't get sick since Adiris had the plague. Using your logic, Adiris should be a survivor and not a killer.
I think a key factor is that Adiris realized just before dying that her actions had unknowingly helped spread the plague across the land, so she was in a very bad spot when the Entity reach to her. And remember, Adiris basically believes that the Entity is the God that she prayed and served all of her life, so even if she didn’t have a killer instinct, she obviously has a willingness to kill for the Entity, believing perhaps is her duty or penance for failing before.
David is violent and a bit of an #########, but from what we know of him, he is also not a bad person. He has morals and his perks shows how he is ready to sacrifice himself for others, but he was also never in such a vulnerable position like the Plague or other Killers, that gave the Entity a chance to turn them. So, because David has no motive or reason to kill people for the entity, so he is left as a survivor for now.
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From what I found in tvTropes, the trope about “someone ugly/mad that is hidden in a house” seems to come from Jane Eyre, a gothic romance novel, publicized in 1847 and generally, seems to be a trope from that era of the ghotic horror,at least the “locking up people inside walls” part. And as mentioned, a family rejecting a son from being ugly has been in forever, so they probably combine those two to create the backstory of Hillbilly.
I also think that, in slashers, that backstory of some slasher villains tends to be that they were deformed and hidden from the world in some way until they get free and start killing, like in the reboot of Black Christmas or in that halloween episode of the Simpsons.
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@TheHourMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872716#Comment_872716
A mary-sue isn't someone who has no conflict, it's someone who has no flaws (or internal conflict.) Everything they do is perfect. That fits Yui pretty well. Everything she does is perfect. She never makes mistakes. She never does anything morally wrong. Etc.
But she has flaws, more than someone like Kate, that is described in a much better light than Yui, that you could get a few flaws from her actions in her story: Like, she literally refused to go to college to focus on her races, which is not exactly wise:
When it came time to apply for school, Yui gathered her courage and confessed her ambition to race motorcycles to her father. An altercation ensued and when Yui refused to apply for a proper education, her father felt a great shame and told her she was no longer welcome in their home.
Or her confronting the stalker because she couldn’t bear watching go through her stuff, which proved dangerous and severely hurt her:
One evening Yui returned home to find the stalker in her apartment going through her things. He hadn’t seen her, and she wasn’t sure what she should do. But the sight of him going through her clothes was too much to bear. She yelled for him to leave.
Which makes sense, because she has a quote that clearly shows her overconfidence:
“That is not enough to beat me. Not even close.”
And anyway, I don’t think that a Mary Sue is merely someone without internal conflicts, that is a negative aspect of a character, but you can have characters that are just content with who they are, and not have any big flaw and still be good characters. Really, for me, mary sue is such an overused term whose definition changes so much that I really don’t care about it anymore. Characters, specially female, aren’t really bad characters anymore, but Mary Sue, which somehow, is worse.
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Eh, I think that the lorw of Yui is alright. She is basically the same type of survivor as someone like Kate was: Someone with a great potential in life that was also loved, inspiring and t gave hope to everyone around them. The thing with them is that all of their success and potential doesn’t matter when in the end they get snatched by the Entity to suffer forever in its realm, no one will ever know that they were there, so the story is more tragic for that. Also, the Entity gains a nice bonus, as those kind of survivor will maintain hope longer (and give others hope too) so those kind of people will be a good target for the Entity.
And Yui being a Mary Sue...eh, sorry, but I find that ludicrous. Yui barely has any character at all, her story is very short to give that kind of titlle and of course is not that well developed compared to the killer: Killers tend to have a lot of more personality and backstory put into them, while survivors get just a very general picture, Yui is not different in that regard.
And I wouldn’t even call her a Mary Sue from what little we know: She had obstacles in her life, with his father disowned for his hobbies, having a stalker that the policy ignored, having to compete in illegal races, going to rehab, her deal seems to be turning those problems into strength, but they were still things that she had to overcome and did mostly with help of others, yes, we didn’t see her do it step by step, but little can you do to show that in a couple of paragraphs. Kate had less problems going on for her, as no one in her family objected to her goals.
Although I agree on the Oni backstory being one of the best, I love how, thanks to the add-ons, we can find more about his family, how his son got hurt in an accident, Kazan went to a temple multiples times to pray for him, but the boy remained crippled for the rest of his life, which probably fuel his obsession or even started it: His own flesh and blood could never become a samurai, while people from lower classes were becoming samurais, which would probably feel like an insult to someone so obsessed with honoring family.
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I think that the Oni would be the most physically powerful Killer, as not only is he huge and very strong, but is by far the most skilled out of all of them, being so good that as a human he was defeating groups of samurais on his own, so he would be a beast to fight. He would be followed by Demogorgon,Huntress,Michael, the Trapper, Hillbilly,Wraith and Leatherface.
But in terms of more esoteric abilities, Freddy is the absolute king,because even limited he still has shown a lot of control over the dream world and if we look at his teleport, he can basically create bodies out of blood, so he possible can be defeated. The second most powerful would be the Spirit, the Nurse,the Plague, Hag and the Doctor.
The rest are more average in power or their skill are suited less to direct combat, but I think that it would go from strongest to weakest:Ghostface,Clown,Pig and Legion.
This is however, if we are not using the Halloween Blight versions, that canonically boost the Killers a lot, as shown by the Trapper, that I would think be the physically strongest killer, only bested by the Oni due to the superior skill of the latter.
Also, I think that people are underestimating the Hag. Yes, she is a thin corpse that is not very big, but she is a supernatural creature, so I think that is not an indication of her strength, that is obviously enough to rip people apart like they were made of paper. I mean, after being transformed, she literally killed and ate an entire village of cannibals, so no human being can hope to defeat her in melee combat.
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@TheHourMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/853521#Comment_853521
I didnt even know maps had lore written about them in-game, thank you. Now I need to go look at the other map descriptions.
You can see them when you are selecting a map in the custom game, although you can also find them in the wiki.
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@nosparkie said:
If the killers aren't enjoying themselves, then what's even the point? The Entity just pulls survivors and killers into purgatory hell for it's own pleasure, and neither of them are enjoying it?
Time for the survivors and killers to team up against the Entity, honestly, if that's the case.
I think that the lack of enjoyment was meant for the tortured Killers, as if they enjoy or not the Realm would depend from each Killer, the most evil ones like Michael,Ghostface, Clown and maybe the Legion clearly are having a good time in the realm for example.
Nevertheless, that answer was from one of the old streams, and I think in another stream, the one that was dedicated to the lore, they talked again about the relationship between Killers and then they seem to believe that they do interact with each other, and can have relationship, like the canon one between Wraith and Nurse:
Do Killers interact with other Killers in the fog? If so, how?
Farah - "Are we teasing the thing?"
Dave - "You just did, I guess... I think it's totally possible. I think some are rivals; most are neutral. I think that the community creates amazing fanart and content. I would like to make a canon that The Wraith and The Nurse have something."
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Yes, it should be reverted or at the very least, change the Mirror-addon to make that immune at the very least. It take a lot of the fun of the build when half of the survivors that you face run way when you are trying to ambush them. And no, “moonwalk” is not a good or a fun way to counter Spine Chill, specially in a Mirror Build. Your main strategy is looking at people!
But even in EW1 is still bullshit, because a spine chill user is always going to know that you are there if you try to stalk them no matter what, and because you are slow as a snail, that takes a lot of valuable time in the early game, so it should be reverted.
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@Rattman said:
So, I was thinking...
Remember how devs said that Entity can create realms with survivor's and killer's memories? If in Stranger Things world Halloween was fictional, what if Michael and Laurie are fictional too? What if those two were created from someone's memories by Entity? Think about it. Their lore is vague and don't really explain how they ended up in Entity's realm.
I strongly believe in this, cause Myers wouldn't make big oof every time he got stunned with pallet. Entity couldn't make him look like as the one from movies. Just like the realms. As we were told, Entity can't replicate realms properly, so here and there things are changing from trial to trial.
But we have confirmed lore about the Entity snatching Laura, the Demigorgon, Steve,Nancy and Michael. We have absolutely no implication in the lore that says that the Entity can create real human beings from memories. If it can create them from memories, it wouldn’t need to snatch that many people to feed on those emotions. Just take one guy and create his whole family, friend and every random guy that you he saw in the street. The only thing “living” that it has created are crows and those are still part of the Entity, so I don’t think they have emotions for the Entity to feed (and if they would, they are still part of the Entity and I don’t think that it can feed of itself)
I don’t think that Michael grunting after being stunned by a pallet (that is there for gameplay purposes, so I don’t think that he would do in the actual lore) is proof that he is just a memory. Michael is the real deal, as there is nothing on him that excludes him from being taking away by the Entity.
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@EmpathyModule said:
For Ghost Face, it's canonical that Ghost Face is not a singular person, but anyone who wears the mask taking on the persona of the Ghost Face. Similar to the Legion, except anybody can pick up the mask and become a new Ghost Face. As for Halloween and other horror licenses, it's apparent that the Entity can take people from multiple universes. It's easier to believe than to think that the events of all these movies (and Stranger Things) all happened in the DBD universe.
In the Scream movie canon,yes, but it is not confirmed that is the case in the DBD world where Ghostface existed. Yes, there is that quote that talks about other Ghostfaces, but they can’t be those of Scream, because the first movie was released in 1996 and seems to be situated in that year, while Danny was already Ghostface in 1993:
GHOST FACE DISAPPEARS June 18, 1993
At first glance, Jed Olsen was a modest and enthusiastic freelancer with experience in a variety of small newspapers. The staff at the Roseville Gazette appreciated how easy-going and honest he seemed, and so he was treated as a stranger for no more than five minutes into his interview:
And the nickname of Ghostface I think was not mentioned in the movies until Scream 4 and teven then the killers were mostly mentioned as The Woodsboro Killer or just the Killer in universe. Besides that, in the descriptions of the classic outfit, it implies that Danny was the first wearer of the outfit, so even if they are other Ghostfaces in his world, they are imitators of Danny, not the other way around:
He grabbed this garb impulsively, to spice things up. He had no idea how iconic this would become for his victims.
A fixed-blade knife used on the first victim that became a legend.
Which I am not so sure that is even the case, despite the quote ,as all of the add-ons, descriptions and stuff from Ghosface imply on Danny being the only Ghostface, as it is mentioned that he gave himself the nickname for his Roseville killings::
Cut-outs of articles covering unsolved murder cases from Utah to Pennsylvania. While Ghost Face just authored some of the headlines, he committed all of the murders. Compiling your success makes you proud and boosts your confidence.
“The Ghost Face Caught on Tape” was the resulting article, written by Olsen.
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I also found the lore of the new map, if anyone wants to check on it:
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Yes, here they are, pretty long and awesome stories, it is very nice after the letdown that was the "lore" of the Stranger Things Chapter. Here is the Lore of the Oni:
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In my opinion, this teaser 100% confirms that the Killer is not the father, but the ancestor, as I have said before. All of the clues point out to him much more than the father:
-Is not the same voice, yeah, it could just be using different voice actors, but the voice is clearly meant to be ancient and less human than what we heard from the father. Also, “your blood belongs to the Yamaoka” is something that makes more sense for the creator of the lineage to say,not the father is just a normal guy more worried about his work and the money issues than his blood, if he even is a Yamaoka. The lineage could be from her wife.
"Shouldering both university fees and hospital bills, the father worked past exhaustion. To keep a roof over their heads, he profaned their legacy. The walls of their ancestral home were sealed with mouldy materials for a cheap fix. As the house was stripped of its integrity, an old anger was awakened. "
-The teaser is very focused on the mask, a mask that is mentioned to belong to the ancestor,same with the swords.
-The blood retreating could be the “house” absorbing the blood, which could imply that the crime that the father did awaken the spirit of the ancestor or something,which is implied in some descriptions:
"Her home became profane."
It still could be the father...possessed by the spirit or the spirit possessing the mother, how knows, but the Ancestor has to be involved in some ways, and having a oni/samurai killer is different enough of the spirit to be his own killer, while the father on his own...it doesn’t have a lot of potential and shares too much lore with his daughter. I mean, the father couldn’t have his own tome, because half of his history is that of Rin.
And hell, a Samurai Killer...we could have another range killer in DBD, as there were a lot of samurais that used bows.
@Alice_pbg said:
2 things.
1- Rin got her revenge, she killed her father. Him stsying dead wasn't part of the deal.
2- It's not like the entity cares anyway... what will Rin do? Not obey the entity?
She could, but the issue could be more on Rin losing her source of anger and revenge. If she loses that, she has no motivation to kill, no motivation, no emotions for the Entity to feed, no matter how much it tortures her, eventually she will had to go to the Void.