JediWithASniper
JediWithASniper
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- JediWithASniper
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Comments
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@RyRapsYT said:
Oh god no. That would be crazy hard for the survivors it would put the game on hold
That’s kind of the point.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2020914#Comment_2020914
That's fine. I am fine with it having a strong effect, but the whole team being screwed because someone cleansed a totem is pretty harsh.
Haunted grounds only exposes (you can loop and dodge them) with this dodging and looping become impossible.
Me personally, I’d like to see all of the hexes be reworked with major buffs. But then they also need to create an incentive for survivors to actually do totems. Currently there is basically no incentive.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/234727/new-hex-dazed-confused
This would make it BS if a bad teammate decided to go round getting rid of totems.
We want to encourage survivors to do them, with a bit of counterplay but also risk and reward. This would make it impossible for them. Reversing buttons is massive.
Um... Hexes are supposed to be really bad, not weak sauce. If applying the effect to everyone is too much, then apply it to the one who cleansed.
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Um... there is a ton of counterplay against huntress. IMO she’s one of the most fun killers to go against.
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I think gens should regress a bit faster, but rather than make ruin base kit, to me it seems that a kick should regress a gen at least double what it currently does. The kicks barely do anything right now.
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I’m totally committing to that gen no matter what.
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@HellDescent said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2018871#Comment_2018871
"So what if instead of each perk just having 3 levels, you acquired the perk in the bloodweb, and then you upgrade that perk with bloodpoints in its own skill tree. "
Exactly.
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@HellDescent said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2018841#Comment_2018841
That doesn't really make sense. If it's in a game people will want to grind it, which means they will need even more bp.
How do you figure it to be more bp when those metrics haven’t even been set?
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@Terro said:
What's the point of haste? It just prolongs the survivor getting hit so that bt doesn't activate by the time the killer catches them.
For the most part, it’s an incentive to prevent point farming. But it has some interactive dynamics with BT, where it’s harder for a naturally unhooked survivor to provide protection hooks. Very dynamic.
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@HellDescent said:
So what would happen with 80+ perks we already have on each character? Now we gotta spend even more bp to level them up?
Remember that you don’t have to purchase two extra levels of a perk to get its full function. You only purchase base perks, and then only upgrade the ones you like.
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@bjorksnas said:
On paper interesting idea, In practice mountain of code and infuriating design
170 perks, x 5 side grades each, = 850 total sidegrades between both sides that need to be coded into the game
not only that but any combination of those 5 sidegrades working together with any other combination of 10-15 more sidegrades from your other perks in addition to the perks themselves
that's 19 individual perks and modifiers on those perks per player, which is just way too much considering there are 58599024 perk combinations in this game for survivor alone
even if all of the sidegrades were on 3 perks only there would still be 12657389184 odd combinations for each survivor alone and someone has to write code to make sure it all works together and if a single combination breaks everything either codewise or balance wise it would probably be a mess to fix or make a system to fix it
Wow! Maybe they don’t do it with every perk in the game then to start. Possibly just new perks coming out, and then possibly revamping 2-3 perks each quarter.
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@CountVampyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2017878#Comment_2017878
I’ve seen it a lot. Contrary to what you believe, when you’re rank 1 having NOED in their kit doesn’t assure a loss, it guarantees a win. Somebody with those skills doesn’t need 4 active perks to slaughter most groups.
You can say you’ve seen it a lot, but rank 1’s and 2’s don’t run with it hardly ever. 3’s and 4’s occasionally.
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I don’t think it’s gen repair that needs the rework. I think they need to look at totems being an actual objective instead of a side quest. If all totems get done, it’s the equivalent of adding two more gens to the game, but right now, most survivors don’t waste time with them because they are not a primary objective.
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@CountVampyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2017578#Comment_2017578
I’m in red ranks. I go up against rank 1 killers all of the time. I still run into NOED on a regular basis, so without you backing up your words with substance rather than opinion, I can only surmise that your assertion is nothing more than pure BS.
I do the same, and NOED shows up maybe once in a hundred matches against an actual red rank. I can’t remember the last time I saw it with a rank 1 killer. There is a big skill gap between a rank 4, and a rank 1.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2017852#Comment_2017852
That right there is a logical fallacy. You assume every killer has to get kills prior to end game to be "good". We both know that there are many end game perks, and several builds around those. None of them require kills before the endgame, because reaching the endgame is the point. It's like boxing. When mayweather starts the first round and throws few punches, just staying huddled, it's not because he suddenly became a bad boxer, it's because he's not one to try and end a fight early. He plays the later rounds to his advantage instead.
All the other end game perks require the killer to do something. NOED does not. An experienced killer will realize that being stronger for a full game is better than being stronger for the 20 seconds it takes to open an exit gate. This is why NOED is weak. Because the “end game” that NOED killers refer to is as short as 20 seconds. Why would anyone who wants to win sacrifice a perk slot for 20 seconds of endgame? Good killers don’t.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2017838#Comment_2017838
So you worked out that the longer time commitment is only to completely stop the perk from being able to activate at all, which again is something you can't do with any other perk. You can wait and just clean it like every other hex, or spend a bit more time in the mid game and deny it from ever activating at all. That right there is the balance. If you think the killer may not be working particularly hard to keep the gens off, he's probably running an end game build, which likely includes NOED, so plan accordingly.
Hahaha!
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2017828#Comment_2017828
"It takes 2 gens time"
Said like someone who truly can't think in terms of rushing gens.
Imagine people running end game perks not trying particularly hard to avoid the end game, lol. What's next people with traps trying to lead you to them? That's your entire argument for the killer being bad, that he isn't trying to avoid a phase he knows will help him out if you don't remove the single totem as soon as it lights up? Why should a killer with any end game build do more in the middle than farm points? He wants you to finish the gens and not think about totems, you fall into that trap, and it makes him bad? Comical.
Like I said, it’s for killers who aren’t good enough to get the kills before the endgame. It’s a game patch for the skill patch. The devs have not been able to figure out what to do to fix the game, so they leave NOED in.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2017578#Comment_2017578
If that really is the case, as you continue to claim without any evidence, then the time commitment to stop the perk from activating shouldn't be an issue. You don't need to gennrush against killers who aren't at the same skill level as your team. The only time every second in a match matters like that for survivors is when they are facing a killer good enough to keep pressure on all 4 people. (Though I am glad you stepped away from the ridiculous claim it took as much as 5 minutes, when it clearly doesn't.) Against a mediocre killer, there just isn't a reason each Survivor can't take 30 seconds to go clean 1 totem each, and then you've only got 1 dull left.
I didn’t step away from the 5 minute time frame. I simply stated the minimum time commitment to be two gens which is 160 seconds, 2-1/2 minutes. Unless of course you do what most survivors who are better do, and just wait till it activates and then cleanse it.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2017567#Comment_2017567
"Rewards bad killers for doing nothing"
You keep on using that line. Yet, when I asked why you felt this way about NOED, but not about ds, ub, kindred or any other survivor perk that is activated by them losing one or more chases, you remain silent. If NOED rewards bad killers (which is your opinion, not a fact, and one you have been completely unable to back up with any actual evidence) than ds and UB reward bad survivors, and kindred rewards the whole team for each bad survivor.
Yes, If you want to stop the hex from ever activating, it takes some small amount of work. Since you are literally taking a perk completely out of the match, it should take work.
First off, it’s not “some small amount of work”, it’s a minimum of two gens worth of time. That’s not a matter of debate, and it doesn’t matter how many survivors are looking, the time cost is the same. Basically NOED asks survivors to waste two gens worth of time minimum without offering any type of incentive to do so. They are just supposed to waste this time every freaking game without reward in order to prevent a bad killer from becoming viable.
Second, DS and UB are perks designed for anti-tunneling, and anti-slugging. UB requires zero effort to counter, you just hook them. DS is a little trickier, but only if they are also running UB. Regardless, neither perk allows survivors an unlimited speed increase for the remainder of the game. Anyone complaining about kindred may need to check in to a hook campers anonymous group.
In my many thousands of hours of play, Killer’s who run NOED rarely get more than 1 kill before all the gens are done. Most of the time they don’t even get that. They typically do not know how to apply map pressure at all, and spend the whole game failing at chases while the gens pop. They don’t have to get any better because their whole plan is to finally win chases when they get their speed increase.
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@CountVampyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2017089#Comment_2017089
Lol. It isn’t up to me to prove you wrong. Its up to you to prove yourself right.
I don’t need to prove anything. Everybody knows that for killers who go against rank 1 survivors, NOED is not in their builds unless they want to lose. It’s a game patch the devs leave in because mid-tier killers are not as good as mid-tier survivors. NOED is the answer to bad killer’s skill level.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2017074#Comment_2017074
That is a statement that has nothing to do with how logic works.
There is no perk that does what that statement describes.
Obviously the logic part escapes you. If survivors counter the perk as NOED advocates describe, then the perk does give killers 3++ minutes of free time.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2017084#Comment_2017084
Not really. If they are doing things at the same time, less time is cost. But really this just showed that the real issue is you don't feel anything should exist to draw you away from rushing gens, even for a few seconds. I would point out that you can always just wait and cleanse the single lit totem after the gens are done as well, but I'm sure you can't imagine the gall of being asked to look for and work a single totem when there is a gate to 99
You are incorrect. I actually have made posts about fixing the totem system in such a way that totems become a primary objective. What I am not a fan of is a singular perk which has such a high time risk/reward setup and then rewards bad killers for doing nothing.
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@CountVampyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016974#Comment_2016974
Generally speaking when somebody levels an accusation it is up to them to provide the burden of proof to support said accusation. You are about as credible as a wingnut spreading some convoluted conspiracy theory and then when confronted with disbelievers tell them to “Do YoUr ReAsEaRcH”.
When you use NOED consistently against rank 1 survivors to get regular 4k’s, then come back and prove me wrong.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016881#Comment_2016881
Why do you assume there to only be 1 survivor cleaning all the totems? Sure, if a single player went around and did them it would take about as long as 2 gens. Of course in that scenario his 3 teammates would be doing those gens, so as a team, the trade-off is worth it. That's how teams work.
Do you do math?
It doesn’t matter how many survivors work on totems, the time it takes is a constant.
whether one survivor does it one totem at a time, or four survivors all cleanse a totem simultaneously, the same amount of time has been cost.
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@EvanSnowWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016974#Comment_2016974
My citation is the hours and hours of footage of SpookNJukes doing exactly what I just said. You want a link to his channel? I'm sure you can find it on your own.
Many red rank killers don't run it because they find it boring, not cause it sucks.
One more time for you people in the cheap seats: NOED HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR SKILL AS A KILLER.
Has everything to do with your skill. Sooner you realize it, sooner you can get better.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016978#Comment_2016978
Enlighten me to how logic works then, please feel free.
A hex perk that grants killers with 3++ minutes of free time does not equal skill and planning.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016871#Comment_2016871
You tried to defend iron will by saying it had a trade off i proved that that fact can be overridden by adding another perk, there by putting a flaw in your logic.
That is not how logic works. Perhaps avail yourself to a few logic groups and learn how logic functions.
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@EvanSnowWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016919#Comment_2016919
Citation needed. There is no proof NOED is bad for Killers. Numerous rank 1 Killers can and do run NOED - and stay there.
“Citation needed”
You run NOED as part of your build and maintain a consistent rank 1 and then come back and talk to me. It only works on mid-tier.
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@EvanSnowWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016872#Comment_2016872
I've seen it on Rank 1 Killers all the time. SpookNJukes uses it for the lulz.
Case not closed, and it doesn't become so because you say so. ANOTHER LOGICAL FALLACY.
I feel like you saw the phrase "logical fallacy" in a Youtube video like one time, and are now trying to use it as often as you can interject it.
Rank 1 killers can do gimmick builds to change things up, but you don’t stay at rank 1 with a NOED build because it’s for bad killers.
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@CountVampyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016623#Comment_2016623
It isn’t logical fallacy, it’s sarcasm designed to point out how stupid the original argument was.
No. It’s logical fallacy based around a lack of skill.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016688#Comment_2016688
You like pulling random numbers out of your backside.
It doesn't take nearly that long. Especially if the Survivor team actually works like a team, which, contrary to popular belief doesn't require swf, just people actually thinking about the team as a whole. (For example, cleaning a totem when they see it so it doesn't turn into something that will punish the team later)
As far as the argument that it requires no real action on the killer side to activate? Quite a few perks on both sides have that distinction. Unbreakable, for example requires no particular skill to activate, you just have to lose a chase and be left on the ground to hold a single button down until it is ready. Much like NOED, it relies on the inaction of the other player to be effective. Decisive Strike and Kindred require nothing more than losing a chase and being hooked. In the case of kindred the Survivor carrying it doesn't need to do anything at all, as they don't even have to be the one hooked. So if we are going to start removing perks based on whether or not it takes a particular "skill" to activate, it's going to be a much longer conversation, and we'll likely end up with about 4 perks on each side when it's all done.
100 seconds of cleansing time. That’s 1 minute and 40 seconds. Then you have searching time. Even if it only takes 20 seconds to find each totem, you are already at 280 seconds of time. That is 3 minutes 40 seconds. Let’s say searching is reduced to 10 seconds per totem which is idiotic, but that is 10 seconds searching plus 20 seconds cleansing, 150 seconds total which is 2.5 minutes. That is ideal totem cleansing scenario for survivors, and gens only take 80 seconds. This means that NORD totem cleansing is roughly equal to doing two gens.
Its total BS.
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@EvanSnowWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016699#Comment_2016699
None of this refutes what I said. You are still clinging to the myth that the perk is for bad killers, and you have yet to prove why that is so except to cling to the additional myth that generator completion has anything to do with killer skill.
The killers that use it can’t win consistently without it. Case closed.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016614#Comment_2016614
Your defense of iron will is logically flawed and its penalty can be negated with urban evasion
???
Use of another perk proves logical fallacy?
I don’t think you understand how this works.
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@EvanSnowWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016629#Comment_2016629
Almost every attack on this perk hinges on some variation of the tired phrase "NOED rewards bad killers".
There's no evidence whatsoever to support this except for the one singular claim that 5 gens being completed indicates some sort of failure on the part of the killer.
This is fallacious as it has nothing to do with the killer's objective. Gen pressure is designed to stall the game, nothing more.
The killer's objective is to kill four people, however manner he can do that.
I could use a perk build that entirely revolved my strategy around waiting for you to finish the five generators and then taking advantage of the endgame collapse. This would require the end game collapse to take place as part of my strategy, which means it has nothing to do with me winning or losing some other manufactured concept of what you think killer winning is. By its very nature it would be a requirement of my plan, so no, it would have nothing to do with me being a bad killer.
You don’t get 4 man kills with NOED unless the survivors are absolutely horrible, or make grossly negligent errors. NOED is a game patch left in by the devs to reward sub-par killers against mid-tier survivors.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016610#Comment_2016610
Pretty simple stuff.
It's a hex perk, it can be removed by survivors before it even activates, or as soon as it activates if you want to just do the totem that lights up. As a hex perk, it should be strong enough to make survivors want to remove it. I don't use it, because I don't base my build around losing every gen, but I don't begrudge players who do when I am playing survivor, I just plan around it. Much like Devour Hope, it is a hex that only works on teams that ignore the possibility until it's too late. There are 4 Survivors and 5 totems. That's 18 seconds for each one, 36 for whoever clears two. Not much of a time investment to stop 1/4th of a Killer's loadout from ever activating.
It is the only hex perk which has a minimum time trade off of between 2-5 minutes without the killer being required to have a skill in game like Devour Hope. The killer does nothing, and nets a potential 2-5 minutes, or 2 kills. No skill or effort required. It is not legitimate to say that survivors should waste 2-5 minutes every game to eliminate one hex.
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@EvanSnowWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016610#Comment_2016610
Every attack of that perk is a logical fallacy.
Demonstrating the inability of a garbage NOED killer to understand logic.
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@CountVampyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2014278#Comment_2014278
Survivors that fall for NOED are garbage survivors. You know it exists and is a possibility. So why didn’t you try to deactivate it by cleansing totems? Because you’re lazy, and impatient and garbage, that’s why.
logical fallacy argument again. It’s the only hex which requires 100 seconds of cleansing time plus searching time which is easily 2-3 minutes.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2014278#Comment_2014278
Iron will is for garbage survivors. There is no legitimate defense of the perk
Iron will has many defenses which are not logical fallacies. For example, it only works while crouched. It’s trade off is mobility. Not a logically flawed argument. NOED defense arguments are logically flawed.
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@EvanSnowWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2014278#Comment_2014278
Why? Because you say so?
With that kind of rhetoric, I could name literally any perk and just declare it to be so.
No, because every defense of that perk is a logical fallacy.
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NOED is for garbage killers. There is no legitimate defense of the perk.
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@Zagrid said:
Someone had their hex totems cleansed within the first minute of the game too often I bet.
I still think that all totems should stay dull until the effect of the totem activates. Aside from a few trap ones like haunted, retribution, thrill. Stuff like that.
That way you won't have a totem cleansed that had no effect. Or on the off chance that all 5 totems get cleansed before the hex spawns then its a little reward to the survivors that they did all the bones.
I’m a survivor main. Only dabbled with a few killers. I’m trying to improve problems with the game.
- killers totems get cleansed to quickly
- Survivors don’t cleanse totems
They seem like opposite goals, but making lit totems a thing of the past achieves both. Only problem I see is that the killer needs a buff, or an item that lets him see which totems have hexes all the time.
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@gendoss said:
Yeah BHVR has been trying to get rid of the RNG of their game for a while now. Trapper's traps, old undying, etc. I feel like randomness in a game like this is just really bad. No other competitive game includes RNG as a main game mechanic and if all totems were unlit it means it's completely random which totem you are doing and that's not challenging.
Last night I literally had a game where my entire team ran around every area of the map multiple times and we didn't find a single totem, lit or unlit. We don't need random totem guessing simulator on top of that.
I had a similar game a few days ago, but they are rare. We did find ruin eventually, but we found all the rest later on. Solo survivor btw. The change this makes to the game is that now, cleansing a totem becomes imperative instead of optional.
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@lagosta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/233700/major-totem-change
So we by chance have to do 5 totems by luck? Like old Undying? The one that just got nerfed?
Before you start hating me, hear me out. There is an element of strategy in NOT cleansing dull totems, one that was cleverly used by many members of the community before Undying's debut. Say you're playing a game where the killer didn't bring hex totems and, by the time the last gen is finished, you've seen 3 dull totems. Then the exposed notification pops up revealing NOED is active and the 60-second clock for your teammate's death starts ticking. Remember that a totem takes 14 seconds to cleanse.
Scenario A: You ignored the totems. You now have a 60% chance of knowing where the totem is and you can head directly to them, check and cleanse if found.
Scenario B: You cleansed the totems. The only clue you have is that the 2 remaining totems are not close to the ones you destroyed, you still have to find them in less than 46 seconds and if they were not found so far, they are in some nasty hidden spots.
If another team member tries to rescue the best outcome is a hook trade for 60 more seconds and the worst is the killer getting 2 kills. NOT doing bones gives a better average outcome than doing dull totems. Exceptions for that strategy are:
1-You have Detective's Hunch and/or a map and know the location of every single totem.
2-You rule out the killer's 4 perks and confirm he doesn't potentially have NOED.
3-You run Inner Strength and need healing.
Well said. What do you say to the flip side of that which is, the threat posed by ignoring totems goes up substantially, and now survivors will cleanse them?
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@malloymk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2008888#Comment_2008888
Yeah, but the rest of the game you're playing with just 3 perks, so it stands to reason that survivors would have a better chance to make it to end game in the first place. Noed is basically just reverse Corrupt Intervention.
Not sure I agree there. That’s kind of like saying that running DS increases the killer’s chances of downing you twice because you are only running 3 perks against him.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2008924#Comment_2008924
But it would also buff noed. So they probably would do them late game
Hadn’t thought about NOED. You found one more reason that NOED needs to be changed.
CONGRATULATIONS!!!
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@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/233700/major-totem-change
It's probably by design to make hex totems easier to be found. I am also not sure if Haunted Ground would actually become stronger as most Survivors seem to ignore normal totems mostly.
I was thinking the same thing as I typed it out. Maybe the danger of hitting a surprise effect totem would cause less survivors to do bones than currently.
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I think whether it is a win or not depends largely on how well you played during the game. I play solo queue exclusively, and you get some awful teammates and some good ones. Let’s say you do the following in a match:
2-3 gens
2-3 unhooks and heals
2-3 Thirty seconds to a minute chases
Cleanse RUIN and/or other hexes
Take protection hits and/or do a 1for1 to save another survivor on their last hook state.
Then if you get hatch as the last one alive, it’s a win. But if the killer takes out your team and there are still 4-5 gens left, it’s just an escape.
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@malloymk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2008843#Comment_2008843
I see what your saying, but couldn't one make the argument that you only win games because of the perks you choose to run? Why is noed any different? If anything I'd argue that Noed isn't even a strong killer perk.
Yes, I agree with you. The problem I have with it, is that it’s a fallback position when you’ve been outplayed. By selecting better perks, you can outplay the survivors. I have no problem with other stuff like haunted ground, or devour hope. Those are better than NOED, BBQ and chili is a better perk than NOED. It’s really just a cheap way to hook probably one guy, and then maybe get a second who is overly-altruistic. Against a good team, it only nets a max of one kill...usually.
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Mine is:
T-bagging is TOXIC 😱😱😱
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@malloymk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2008807#Comment_2008807
Do you run perks on your killers?
Yes, just not NOED. It’s pathetic, and not very fun as a killer. Very unfulfilling to get your rear end kicked all game, and then manage to screw 1-2 guys with NOED at the end. Much more fulfilling to beat them throughout the match.
If the devs altered it properly to make it more legitimate, I might run it. When I was a beginner, I used it until I realized just how pathetic it is.