I_CAME
I_CAME
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The thing I dislike most is the fact that no mither exists in the mode. Killers don't have a comparable perk that completely sabotages them. I was lucky enough to get it in my first match yesterday and it was enough to make me immediately stop playing chaos shuffle after the match was over.
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I feel like this is one of those things that will either get quickly reversed due to huge amounts of backlash. Or they will immediately double down on it and make the system even worse than it's going to be on launch. I agree that too many people give up for silly reasons but I don't think that trapping people in bad matches is good either. It definitely won't make people want to play the game more if they have no way out of unwinnable matches.
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I agree. I actually really enjoyed the first few versions of 2v8. It has felt like a chore to play since Legion was added to the mode. Then Oni came in and now you're more likely than not to have a bad experience playing survivor. It went from being somewhat enjoyable to play and now is at the point where I say "Why should I even bother with this game mode at all over 1v4?". I'd go a step beyond this and say that I actually somewhat dislike 2v8 now. Legion and Oni both need some kind of changes before the next 2v8.
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This is the least fun I have ever had playing survivor. Even the three gen meta gave me a higher number of enjoyable matches.
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I'm worried that Behavior is putting all of their eggs in one basket with the new system they have in the works. What if it doesn't solve the queue times? We will realistically have far more people trying to queue as killer for the next one. They need to focus more on making the mode fun because it's getting worse with each new version. Legion for example is universally disliked in this mode. You're sacrificing the fun of 8 people for the sake of 1 person while we already have a major queue problem. It's just going to get worse if you ignore things like this.
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I just haven't really bothered to queue up as survivor much past the first day or two. The biggest reason is I don't want to play against Oni and Legion. It's just not fun at all. The incentive is also lower this time around for whatever reason. (lol behavior)
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Haddonfield should honestly be a priority at this point. It's horrendous in it's current state.
I can't believe it was ever approved for release. Did they really think it was a good design? Like who reviewed this and gave it a thumbs up? It's a free win when you load in as killer and on the survivor side you only escape if the killer is totally incompetent. This isn't something that should exist in a competitive game with an MMR system. The fact that it hasn't been changed is wild to me.
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Oni is the only 2v8 killer I would say is actually OP. Legion is awful for the game mode but he isn't OP. Oni just completely takes over the game if the person playing him isn't incompetent.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
Has anyone been in a match that did not have Oni? This is ***ing ridiculous. Easily the worst 2v8 event ever. And I usually am a strong defender of the killer side.
After playing more I can agree with this. Oni probably needs some changes for 2v8 next time.
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Legion gotta go. That's my only thought.
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@Lixadonna said:
How is it I can run an Oni for an excessive amount of time. Oni gives up and chases a Leon who can't even last 10 seconds. All that time squandered away. It's a joke.
because the matchmaking is intentionally bad and produces inconsistent results like this. Hens and Otzdarva have talked about this at length and even defended the matchmaking being terrible to prevent killers from getting frustrated. It's not difficult to figure out what is going on.
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People will find creative ways to get around the system. Like what happens if someone just afks on a gen missing skill check after skill check until the killer grabs them? How would the devs be able to know if they were throwing or if they are just terrible at the game? The whole system just seems like a big waste of development resources. It would have been better to just remove self unhooks and the skill checks in stage two. Or maybe move the self unhook to a single attempt that can only be used in stage two.
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I barely play anymore so not really. Late last year is really the last time I played the game consistently. These days I will play the game maybe once a week if not less. I don't even want any extreme changes. Just do something about the more broken aspects of the game and fix the matchmaking. Then it'd be much more enjoyable for me.
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@Pulsar said:
lol sorry.
Pallet break into instant hit is dumb. They should do this for Blight as well.
Make it happen Behavior.
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Your lobby is either going to be the sweatiest team you've ever gone against or complete noobs with this change. I personally like it since I think you should be able to play with who you want to. Solo queue is even worse when you have teammates who run meme perks.
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It's because there are more strong killers than ever now. The amount of killers that are S tier or A tier is pretty high. Blight, Nurse, Ghoul, Billy, Spirit, Plague, Pyramid Head, Twins, Oni, Singularity, Wesker, Dracula, Houndmaster, Unknown, etc. Chances are you can find something you like from that list. If your goal is to win then why would you ever play an M1 in current DBD? M1 killers are actually stronger than they were previously due to buffs they have received and because of map nerfs. They were just phased out because Behavior made the rest of the roster so strong and took away any reason to ever play an M1 killer.
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Considering how much people in this community whine about gen rush, S tier killers, SWF, tunneling, camping, etc… That's basically every single comp match. On the survivor side playing in a SWF would be a requirement. On the killer side everyone would be playing Blight and Nurse to get the biggest competitive advantage possible. Then you'd have long queue times because you can't have a credible competitive mode with the type of matchmaking we have in the regular queue. I don't think there would be enough interest to justify the development time. At the very least people would get bored of it very quickly. Comp is already extremely niche and the only time it gets any substantial viewership is when it's being propped up by popular streamers.
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How does the matchmaking even function when the game is balanced for one side to win significantly more often? Wouldn't this create a large imbalance of high MMR survivors vs high MMR killers? If we count DC games then the real escape rate would probably be somewhere between 35-38%. Now also take into account that a significant number of these escapes are hatch escapes which do not award any MMR. How many survivors are even at high MMR? It can't be very many at all compared to the number of killers who have high MMR. It's no wonder the system doesn't work at all. It's why you can lose 10 games in a row and get a 7000 hour Blight with four slowdowns in the next game. They'd be in the queue for five hours otherwise.
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We have officially entered late stage DBD. It's all downhill from here.
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I remember Otz and others pointed out that it was going to be a buff for killers before it ever went live. It made people start proxy camping which is a far stronger playstyle. Now everyone does exactly that and hovers around just outside the range that starts building the meter. Being face camped by Bubba was annoying but it was never an especially strong strategy if people did generators. The system is basically useless for anything except that exact playstyle. Definitely not worth the time they probably spent on it. It's useless enough that I doubt anyone would really notice if it got removed. The only times i've ever seen it trigger is when the killer was intentionally trying to do so.
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Yes. It's ludicrous that he's still as strong as he is when you consider some of the things that have been nerfed over the years.
70% kill rate against the top 10% of survivors. We know it's even higher since Behavior conveniently doesn't count games where someone disconnects. I would imagine Blight is on the higher end of this given how quickly he can create hopeless situations for the survivors.
Every Blight you run into in normal matches runs builds that wouldn't even be allowed in comp against the best survivors in the world.
2000 game winstreak that Momo did with him shows what he is capable of in the hands of a skilled player. Find me any other competitive game where a 2000 game winstreak would be considered acceptable.
He is also killing killer variety because there isn't much reason to play anything else while this overtuned monstrosity exists in the game.
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I tried to play with a friend a few days ago and we got Blight, Blight, Ghoul, Spirit, Ghoul, Ghoul, Hillbilly all one after another. All of them had at least three slowdown perks and half of them tunneled/camped. It was just one beat down after another and we eventually just gave up when we realized it wasn't going to stop. Granted this was late at night when not many are on and the only people playing are typically degenerates with 7000 hours. Doesn't change the fact that it's a terrible experience.
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@Langweilig said:
I would play more survivor if maps weren‘t as killer sided as they are. I got temple of purgation 10 times yesterday and borgo a few times. I hate these maps with passion. They are tiny with nothing on them like a lot of the current maps.
I really wished behavior fixed que‘s finally. I don‘t like playing survivor and killer takes ages to get a match.
It's especially problematic when you consider how strong recent killers and their reworks have been. Like what am I supposed to do against Ghoul on Haddonfield? Playing against this killer is already difficult on a map like Badham. On one of the weaker maps the game is just over at the start. We have weak maps and the overall strongest cast of killers the game has ever seen. The design philosophy here does not make sense at all. Not to me anyway.
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Gotta get those 70% kill rates up! (I realize this thread is bait)
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The funniest thing about the Blight's 69% kill rate is that this is after they throw out games with a DC. How high is his kill rate actually? 75%? We can't know for sure but it would no doubt be at least slightly higher. Also think about all of the bad console Blights who are holding him back. Imagine how high it would go if you only counted PC Blights. Same thing could be said about Nurse. I feel like the only thing stopping these killers from reaching 80% is the fact that they aren't console friendly. We know we're getting Mouse and Keyboard support on console later on in the year. After that what is the excuse for not toning these killers down? I have yet to see an argument that doesn't boil down to "survivor bad git gud lmao".
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@Roaroftime said:
These are insane and unhealthy and honestly reflect how awful the game has been this last month for high mmr solo queue
I don't really understand this obsession Behavior currently has with certain killers being so strong. It's just not fun to play against at all unless you are in a four man group where everyone is playing like their life is on the line. It's made worse by the fact that the Blights/other high tier killers you run into in an average match are running builds that are so ridiculous they wouldn't even be allowed in comp DBD.
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Waiting to hear the mental gymnastics about how a 70% Blight kill rate against the best survivors you will get in a real match is totally fair. You don't even need to gut the killer. Just tone him down a tad.
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In modern DBD a random pub skull merchant took the best comp team in the world to a 50+ minute game. It almost caused the server to shut down due to the time limit being reached. This game is famous because it's basically the game that killed the three gen strat.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914696#Comment_3914696
All I really do as survivor IS solo queue. With SWF, you have a blatant and obvious advantage, as solo-queue I feel it's more fun as you have to work together with strangers to try to outwit the killer. SWFs it's just more of a given where you only lose if you make mistakes. I feel the whole solo-queue "it's impossible!" is just overblown. Is it more challenging? Sure, but I feel that was the intent - overcoming the odds. SWF just feels too "safe".
Here's one of my favorite solo-queue saves just as an example:
With experience, solo-queue can be a lot of fun. It can be a mixed bag on the quality of your survivor teammates, but that's just a part of the game.
I really don't understand this argument. If SWF is so strong then why do SWFs in the top 5% of MMR only escape half the time? Like i'd get what you're saying if they had some sort of absurd escape rate like 75%. Where are all of these unstoppable SWFs that constantly win at?
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@xGodSendDeath said:
SWF is basically baby mode. It honestly blows my mind that 3 or 4 man SWF ever loses to anyone that isn't a comp Blight or Nurse
Strong SWFs in the current balance usually lose winstreaks at 10-20 games. I know because I watched Xeno, Alby, etc trying to do one many times. They were getting destroyed by Legions and Onryos. The best comp team in the world couldn't go higher than 219 in the MMR era. Now go look up what the highest killer winstreaks are. If SWF is easy mode then why has NOBODY even managed to get close to what the strongest killers have been able to achieve? If it's so easy then surely there'd be some random team with a 1000-2000 winstreak right? Why hasn't it happened yet?
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This is basically just comp restrictions but only for the survivor side. Seems like a pretty one sided suggestion. You want to limit the sweatiest players but only on one side. Are we going to ban grim embrace, deadlock, and dms for killers as well? This is also the norm in comp.
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The last one I remember was as Bubba on the old old Haddonfield. I got a SWF that knew how to run every tile perfectly and it was probably the most unpleasant game of DBD I have ever played.
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What I would like to know is how often people get a gate escape. Getting a reasonably high escape rate by playing for the hatch is not hard. It's just boring gameplay that involves a lot of waiting around. If you ever watch streamers doing streaks in solo queue then you'd know this is what they do to get high escape streaks. I have consistently done slightly over 50% escape rate without going out of my way to get the hatch. Just by playing the games out naturally. I struggled to go higher than this. This was 500+ games worth of data and I did not throw anything out like Behavior does.
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I'm not exaggerating when I say that every single ghoul game i've had so far is just them camping and tunneling off hook due to the killer's extreme level of mobility. Every match is exactly the same. The killer definitely needs some changes but it might also be time to talk about the hook system needing an overhaul as well.
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The event is definitely a let down from a survivor standpoint. My experience so far is spending a varying amount of time filling up a gen just for some random teammate to swoop in and steal all of the points while I get nothing. This is a bloodpoint event so I feel like this kind of bad design is a pretty huge oversight. I honestly am getting more or an equal number of points in normal matches. I don't see any reason to even touch the event mode until a higher bonus is unlocked.
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I love spending four minutes hauling blood to a generator and then getting nothing for it.
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This is the equivalent of a survivor getting mad because the killer doesn't want to watch them leave. Total non issue.
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I'm leaning toward it being a cash grab. This is the first anime chapter and they want to pull in as many new players as possible. It gets content creators on youtube, tiktok, etc talking about how INSANE the new killer is. "IS THE NEW TOKYO GHOUL KILLER THE STRONGEST KILLER IN THE GAME???" People see this and then everyone rushes out to buy it. They will nerf him once the initial sales die down.
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Nerf
- Blight
- Nurse
- Ghoul
I just don't think S tier killers belong in the game at all. I wouldn't really nerf much else beyond these three. Maybe a very slight change to Dracula's bat form and a tweak or two to Singularity.
I don't really care to buff anymore killers considering that is all we've been doing over the past few years. A handful of killers at the bottom are objectively weak but I don't know how much you can really do to buff a killer like Ghostface without re-designing his power. That's something for the devs to figure out.
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I don't understand people who say we shouldn't make bigger maps because of M1 killers. These same people always say we shouldn't balance the game around weak survivors because it makes SWF too strong. Yet we should balance all of the maps around the bottom 5-6 weakest killers even if it makes high tier killers too strong?
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Very glad they finally looked into this and made the appropriate adjustments. I personally have been whining about this for a long time. It's nice to go into a game and actually feel like you aren't wasting your time.
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@wakesafe said:
I usually wait to play Killer for a day or two so the queues are less extreme.
I’ve played against him a couple times and I can’t seem to figure anything out about him. How is he hitting me from the other side of a rock/debris? Why are they ready to attack again almost as soon as his jump ends sometimes?
Is there something I’m missing? why are people calling him bad?
People ALWAYS downplay how strong a new killer is. Admitting something is over tuned will cause it to get nerfed faster. People who mostly play one side don't want to see this happen.
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Fantastic change that I have wanted for a long time. Good work.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901928#Comment_3901928
This is why I think the pregame lobby are pointless and a bad feature at this point now that SBMM is in place. It's nice aesthetically, but matchmaking would be a hundred times simpler and more efficient without it if you just matched 5 players and sent them straight into the game without any lobby. Not only is backfilling a bad thing, but lobby dodging too. Matchmaking would be faster and more accurate if we removed them. And it's not like anyone uses them to communicate any important strategy before the match anyway.
This is what i've thought for a long time. I'm not even sure what purpose the lobby serves at this point. It just seems to be there so people can dodge lobbies they don't like the look of. All it really does beyond this is increase the length of time for you to get into a match. You can sometimes end up waiting 3-4 minutes longer than you should due to people on both sides constantly leaving. It would feel amazing to queue up and actually get to play the game.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903126#Comment_3903126
100%
When it first got introduced, it still matched you against people of a similar skill level, but since so many people complained about long queue times, it got changed to what we have today.
I'd absolutely take longer queue times if it leads to better match quality, and less one-sided stomping.
It goes beyond this. A lot of the people who whisper in Behavior's ear are outright telling them not to make the matchmaking more strict. This isn't even a conspiracy theory either. Both Otzdarva and Hens have flat out said this on their streams. They have even gone on rants explaining why they feel this way. This is relevant because both of these guy have been in the program where content creators get to make suggestions to the devs. I'm not saying content creators are the ones making all the decisions but they are the very least planting the ideas. Ideas that do not necessarily benefit the experience of the overwhelming majority of players.
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I understand why people get frustrated with how bad the matchmaking still is. No one is having fun in these games where you get put up against a 5000 hour Blight who is running four slowdowns and hard tunneling at five gens. Then you check your teammates to find out two of them have 500 hours and generally have no clue what they're doing. I still firmly believe that bad matchmaking is the root of nearly every problem in DBD. Including the problem of survivors being frustrated and ragequitting constantly. They need to stop listening to content creators like Hens, Otz, etc on the subject of matchmaking and start putting the sweats into matches with other sweats.
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@SummerBBQDwight said:
Would be great to fix the map instead adding coin flip on which side will have bad time.
Agree with this. Whoever is making these larger balancing decisions has some very bad takes that need to be challenged more. It's like they still haven't figured out that no one enjoys loading up and expecting to lose immediately. I just don't get why they think it's a good idea to make maps massively favor one side or the other.
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@jedimaster505 said:
Anxiety from having your 4K streak broken? Solo Q is 10x worse and I play both sides.
It's much harder to win in solo queue but it definitely does not cause more anxiety. There is more pressure to perform when playing killer since everything comes down to your individual performance.
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This is a big if. I have no doubt that controller players hold back kill rates but I don't expect that many to switch.