HugTheHag
HugTheHag
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- HugTheHag
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If you think hard enough about it, any specialized build can be countered by perks/strategies from your opponents.
It's just chance, like going full medkits against a Plague.
Distortion and Shadowstep are not overly strong or unfair, Distorsion especially can run out of tokens very quickly (Lethal takes 2 tokens right from the start). It can suck if you use several aura perks, but any build is at risk of being countered. That's part of the game.
Had you been playing Wraith or Ghostface, Distortion would have been practically useless. They also took a gamble with their build. That's how DbD is.
It sucks if your matchups are a bit unlucky right now, but I don't think two odd perks (that are not even that popular to begin with) are a solid ground to switch your usual builds to full regression.
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Bar the "stupid" aspect of the answer, but yeah, I don't care for it.
I'm generally excited about board games from games I've heard of (my friends and I play the Isaac : Four Souls game pretty often, and I'm excited about Sally Face becoming a board game too), but that's because the games I usually play are not asymmetric games based on feeling like a threat is looming and could strike anytime.
Something about sitting in my living room with my pals drinking cola and playing a board game does not fit with that atmosphere. So yeah, DbD does not strike me as board game material, unless it completely changed the concept of the game.
Which, I mean, I might be surprised. They did release Hooked On You (which was a good laugh).
But right now, I genuinely don't know who will buy the game.
Also, because the joke is easy to make, but it feels like if the devs are having a hard time balancing their games, they maybe should not mess with board games. Those are much harder to balance post-launch !
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A "The Quarry" chapter would be amazing.
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The longer screams are annoying, true
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Can play without them, but super satisfying : Never Sleep Pills + Sketched Mural on The Legion
They zoomin
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Haven't taken this one yet, wonder if it still says meeting cheaters 25% of the time is "rarely".
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@Kalevi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3389110#Comment_3389110
I can't believe people here are taking this 1st April Fools joke post seriously. He even has oingo boingo as a hyperlink...
Literally haha
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I love today
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100/10
Amazing =D
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Legion is fun to play, and if you're not aiming to climb to high invisible numbers they're pretty balanced !
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Not that it means it's already over, but hearing a chainsaw soon into the match makes my motivation deplete quickly.
Hearing Wesker's TR instantly has a similar effect.
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I don't know. After 6.1. I said "Eh, guess I'll just play more killer !" and I did.
But now, I have no idea. Survivor sounds horrible with that much time needed to heal + killers who might tunnel even more, but killer sounds like it's gonna be much harder to pressure gens and actually need to tunnel to put a damper on the gen efficiency.
+ The Hag nerf.
So I guess I can always play Legion, as at least I'll make sure everyone's gonna be injured fast and need time off gens to mend.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385267#Comment_3385267
-"Make Bite the Bullet make you silent when you are being healed by someone else. That would be coherent and a nice little buff."
That's a very fair buff.
-"Lightborn doesn't need anything. It already counters blinds AND gives aura reading if you prevent a blind. That's about as much as it is supposed to do"
Have to disagree with you here for one reason : Nemesis. Change Lightborn to affect you and your minions. Remember how we made Wraith not get light blind? That's cool and all but they kinda forgot Nemesis. Nurse who is a stronger killer gets immunity to lights and Nemesis who is at least 2 letter tiers weaker doesn't get blind immunity for his Zombies? Excuse me?
You know what ? I hadn't thought about it, but you're right !
Lightborn should absolutely affect the zombies, and now that I think about it I'm mad it's not already the case. =)
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385626#Comment_3385626
It's apparently not a nerf to the PTB, but was always the intention in the dev update, and it was just written in a way that was hard to understand.
That's just plainly a flat-out lie. The original wording was very specific in that it required a negated hit to be deactivated, there was nothing ambiguous about it.
The fact that they went back to edit the original text to hide how blatantly clearly they stressed that it needed to protect you from damage to be deactivated just underlines it.
BHVR, don't just lie. Have the balls to admit that you just slapped another crippling nerf on DH before the first was even put into testing.
I can't agree more !
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It's apparently not a nerf to the PTB, but was always the intention in the dev update, and it was just written in a way that was hard to understand.
Personally feel like it's much too hard of a nerf, I think the previous dev update version was fairer.
However, it won't change my DH pickrate as you can't downgrade from 0 haha.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385527#Comment_3385527
Well in the dev update it said "if it successfully protects the user from damage"
In the ptb now its both if you use it and fail or succeed.
Must have been an internal misunderstanding. Probably the person who wrote the dev update didn't understand the way the info was given to them and wrote very clearly something that ended up not being the actual new DH.
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So they re-nerfed DH before it hit PTB ? Harsh.
I don't think the notes were written in a way that was hard to understand, it was pretty straightforward that the perk only deactivated when you tanked an Endurance hit with it.
I didn't think you could make Ping Gambling : The Perk any more artificially complicated, but I'm here for it. Maybe next year it will only work if the survivor has unhooked a survivor, cleansed a totem, crouched two times in front of a tree and then booped a crow.
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Since I am a jokester at heart, I will often mess around moonwalking in front of them or walking around them as though to "check" they are really afk, like survivors do when killers are afk. It amuses me ! =D
As I'm most often playing Legion, I'll usually start a frenzy chain using them or use them as a Frenzy pit-stop in other chains. If they are raised and healed then I can do it again. The deep wounds puts them on critical state, so they'll eventually be bleeding out if not raised by their teammates. That way they're not dying immediately and they're also useful. =)
That said, since I tend to play very soft, I'll usually go easy on teams that start with an afk teammate. Might even become a friendly game if the survivors are sufficiently clueless or willing to meme.
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I haven't yet tried to achievement hunt in DbD, I did it in other games I liked but those were mostly single player (HZD & Hollow Knight for example), so I'm sitting at around 50% achievements gotten by simply playing through the game.
I don't think I will achievement hunt in DbD because that would require me to get all DLCs, and as much as I like the game, I'm fine with the ones I got and I'm not looking to add to the collection as of yet.
I'd hate that Nurse achievements as playing her makes me motion sick, so that's one I'd never get for sure.
Evil Incarnate I feel like could be manageable, since I'm pretty low mmr so not only the survivors aren't too skilled, they're also rarely unkind to me.
Weirdly enough, the achievements I would apprehend the most would be all the survivor achievements. I rarely escape as is by using builds I like, so being confined to 3 base perks and escaping sounds really tedious to do on all survivors. The only reason I got Haddie's, my latest survivor main, was by a Bubba giving me hatch, so that should say something in how painfully slow the process would be.
(I've been told to cheese it by getting strong squads to help me, and I don't want that. I want those achievements to be, well, achievements, and to improve, not let myself be carried through them).
Also, Outbreak Breakout. I hate playing that map as anything else than Hag and needing to actually open the gate seems like a hassle when most of my games do not see the gates being even powered.
The killer achievements I have not struggled as much to get when I tried for the few killers I regularly play (Legion, Ghostface, also snagged Clown and Nemesis), so I wouldn't worry too much about them. Some would be very unpleasant to get (like Nurse in my case, also I'd probably have to lose a decent number of games to get my Hag one since I was foolish enough not to hunt for it while Ruin was not yet ruined), but I don't think they'd make me want to tear my hair out or take an extended break.
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Make Bite the Bullet make you silent when you are being healed by someone else. That would be coherent and a nice little buff.
I think a lot of those perks on both sides are in a good place. They might not be overused but what they do, they do rather well.
For example, Lightborn doesn't need anything. It already counters blinds AND gives aura reading if you prevent a blind. That's about as much as it is supposed to do and it does it very well.
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I actually had more trouble starting out last year as survivor. If you're starting with a killer that has not too complex mechanics (for instance, I started out with The Legion), past the first few games to be acclimated, you'll actually do rather great.
Survivor I found to be more discouraging, because less of it was in my control and many games were lost because not only did I suck, my teammates also did, leading to the gates being powered extremely rarely.
Generally, I think the balance of the game inevitably places you in front of slightly better opponents, so it's only a question of where you plateau. New survivors will plateau instantly while they get stomped by beginner killers, while new killers will plateau after a good streak of stomps on new survivors, when the game puts them against survivors that have an idea how the game works.
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Enjoying my "######### around" Appraisal/Ace in the Hole build while I still can without compromising the team !
We'll Make It already barely ever leaves my builds, same as Aftercare, so those are probably staying.
I'm not usually playing with exhaustion perks anymore so that leaves 2 spots, I'm thinking maybe Inner Healing + Overzealous for a guaranteed short heal + gen speed.
I'd love to go back to messing with Bite the Bullet, since now that heals will take forever, they might as well be stealthy.
Guess we'll see !
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I feel like NOED is in a good place right now.
Especially after CoH gets nerfed, people will do much more totems, which might prevent it more often =)
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I'd sure be very salty if We'll Make It becomes
necessarypopular enough that they nerf it. -
Hit and run is a good way to put pressure, and I'm glad it's gonna be more viable soon.
That being said, I am a prime hit & run enjoyer as someone who mains both Legion and Hag.
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@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381708#Comment_3381708
It's very possible I understood it wrong because I honestly don't care much about Clown haha. I agree he needs more QoL, he's more fun than he used to but he's still too boring for me to play as (and going against killers who obstruct your vision is a pain for me bc of my eyes, so I don't enjoy playing against him either)
Oh I'm right there with you on that, I hate going against Clown haha !
When I play him, feels like his toxic bottles barely help, but against him, on top of the warped vision being unpleasant, it feels like it garantees hits every time X)
(Skill issue on my end, I am fully aware ! =D)
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I agree that I'm curious why it remains a scourge hook perk if it now works with tokens.
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Had his kind of interaction a couple of times, since I tend to give kills as well after games that went very bad for the killer.
A lot of them take it as an insult, hence the BM, but don't put all killers in the same basket. First, most killers who accept accept these kind of kills do so graciously with absolutely no BM on their part, and second, most killers are not out to make your games miserable, they're just trying to enjoy the game same as anyone here.
Plus, taking out frustrations from one match onto another is exactly why you'll find killers slugging for 4min or hitting on hook. If your blood is still boiling from that match, which is understandable because it never feels great to be BM'd like this, maybe you should just take a little break and play again tomorrow when you'll feel better
Hope your next games go well, regardless !
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I don't know. It might not be strictly a party game, but it's not a competitive game either, being asymetric.
I think a lot of people mean it less as "DbD is a party game" and more like "Dbd is at its most enjoyable as a party game"
Which might not be true for you but seems to be for others. Taking this game lightly instead of very seriously seems to make many people more chill about things than the opposite.
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Agree that she feels very strong for the average survivor.
She's not an M1 killer if people have 1 health state instead of 2.
If Hag gotta be nerfed because lesser experienced survivors find her oppressive, it would only be on track for Bhvr to nerf Plague a little bit.
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I've been meaning to try out Twins, they seem fun to play. Any advice before I get into it ? =D
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Pretty sure the Clown's addon was not made more viable, if I remember correctly it was bottles reduced by 3 instead of reduced by 2, which gives you one less bottle.
A bit sad he didn't get more QoL to his yellow bottles though , Clown is a killer I tried purely by chance because of a daily a few months ago and that I feel I could really come to enjoy more if half of his power was more straightforward. I should really play more Clown. His kit is very cool.
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Agreed. Self-heals were a problem, but altruistic healing was not.
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Especially since medkits are best used on yourself to either allow your teammate to stay on gen or heal yourself when you're alone and injured in late game.
So bonus to altruistic heals on medkits is a joke.
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@foodie said:
I hope the devs reconsider this mistake of a change, or at the very least add a buff to Hag. At this point, base killer speed would not be overpowered on her and make her trap set up time a bit quicker.
I guess we'll see but yeah, if the wiping traps mechanic comes to live there better be buffs to come with it.
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The nerf to healing is too much, base altruistic should not be nerfed that hard considering it already takes 2x 16s from survivors just to heal one person. The medkits and CoH had it coming, though, so I'm not complaining about them, except for the fact that now taking rare medkits is straight up useless. They buffed altruistic healing speeds, which... If you're taking a medkit, it's probably to heal yourself ? When no one is around ? So not on random teammates ?
From survivor point of view, I think it's too much, from Hag enjoyer point of view I was really satisfied until I saw how they nerfed her. Very stinky of them. They better give her a treat soon in compensation for this straight up nerf.
DH I couldn't care less about, never used it.
Gearhead is nice, I guess? Same with Overzealous, except that since now booning is practically useless I don't see that interaction come up often. I might go back to playing Shadowstep for a bit. I wonder how they choose these perks to buff, it feels a bit random.
Don't play Hillbilly, but it feels stinky too that they nerfed snipes after they took Sky Billy from us. Are Billys not supposed to have fun ?
Autohaven reworks I'm enthusiastic about. I have these maps with all I have and I hope they'll feel better after the rework.
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Never used it, so not really sad, but it is incredible how relentless they are about one perk that's already ping gambling.
I guess that means I won't need to leave gen to go unhook, since DH users will probably rush those first unhooks to activate the perk.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Im sure the 5 Hag mains that exist will find some way to adapt... as much as I hate to say it.
I mean, if you managed to play Hag this long, you probably have some tricks up your sleeve anyways. And Ive seen some really smart Hag mains that dont trap in obvious spots (by Generators/Totems/Hooks) and can sweep most pub matches with minimal effort... I dont think they are going anywhere anytime soon.
I think the only downside to this is the fact that the divide between Hag and Trapper is being blurred much more. Since you are basically playing at 4.4 m/s for the Trapper Sack addon as basekit.
=(
The best Hags are amazing, man. They can do POV traps and chase builds and everything. I'm decent, but nowhere near their level.
It's just really hard to grow in skill with this killer, because you go from getting obliterated your first games to stomping for a good while until matchmaking runs out of survivors that don't know how to counter you. You're not that much more experienced when it starts throwing good loopers and people who know how to disarm your traps skillfully and destroy your web, and that's a tough scene to progress in.
Hopefully now that everyone can destroy the traps, it will make her have a more natural skill curve I guess, since now it's really gonna be easy countering her for less experienced players.
Just wish she'd get some love. Flashlights weren't such a problem since most people didn't play them, so the trade is very rough right now.
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@Firellius said:
A hag trap under a hook just made it impossible to unhook without a flashlight. It's either giving survivors a universal counter to those traps, or banning her from putting them around hooks.
It was possible to unhook, provided both players had the crouch key pressed ?
(Plus I genuinely wouldn't mind making placing a trap under hook impossible, I have no quarrel with that idea at all !)
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Hit and run is back !!
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They could honestly remove the flashlight-Hag traps interaction. It's not like Hag as too few counters haha !
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378493#Comment_3378493
There's quite a bit difference in ending the game with 0 kills and having a game end in a 2K.
The major problem right now is that if you try to play nice and spread out hooks, you are far more likely to end with 0 kills assuming the skill level of everyone is roughly equal. This is because even if you start a chase after hooking a survivor, there's still going to be at least 1 survivor working on a gen, because there's still a free survivor to go for the unhook and heal. Meaning that by spreading hooks, gens will still get done.
It isn't until you kill a survivor where the scales get tipped in the favor of the killer where it's easier to keep survivors off gens since there's no free survivor who can just stay on a gen.
This is why tunneling is becoming more common. There's no advantage to spreading hooks and ending the game with no kills feel bad. Even if you don't want to hardcore tunnel someone out of the game, you are still best focusing your early hooks between no more than 2 survivors. Which still results in forcing someone out early.
If tunneling were to be addressed, you have to first target the core issue and that is spreading hooks is objectively the worst play. Give some base-kit reward to killers who hook multiple different survivors in a row. This won't end tunneling, but it'll allow you to make changes that target tunneling as there's a valid alternative to tunneling a survivor out of the game.
That's true. And that's why it's normal to have a couple of gens pop during the first chase. But some people do very well by spreading out hooks. Some would say it's even normal gameplay. Sure getting 0 kills feels discouraging, but so does not escaping 10 games in a row, yet people cope. If some killers accepted a few losses and a few draws now and again, by keeping to their usual playstyle and perks, their mmr would stay at a bracket where their usual strategy works. They would not need to tunnel. Sure, it would be more efficient, but at some point, if people are tunneling and not able to keep up with survivors in front of them, it's kind of on them for pushing matchmaking to give them better opponents by doubling down when things get rough.
At least, that's my opinion, and I respect yours. I just don't see mine budging, is all.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378493#Comment_3378493
The game, literally mathematically speaking, cannot be won by a killer without tunneling.
Now, i personally would much rather have a game where tunneling (and camping too) is not just discouraged, but literally impossible from a game mechanics perspective, while making it so these things aren't required to win the game (from a math perspective)
BHVR says they balance the game around 45 second chases, which in theory means, if every chase was 45 seconds, it would be a draw. So lets assume that you want to 12 hook all survivors, and not "tunnel" anyone out of the game, and assume those 45 second chases.
Killer and survivors spawn on opposite ends of the map. Most killers will take around 15 seconds to walk to the other part of the map and start a chase.
Generator progress:
1: 15 seconds
2: 15 seconds
3: 15 seconds
4: 15 seconds
5: 0 seconds
Hook Progress:
1: 0 hooks
2: 0 hooks
3: 0 hooks
4: 0 hooks
Now the killer starts a chase that lasts 45 seconds and downs the survivor. Picking them up takes 3 seconds, walking them to a hook takes ~8 seconds (a full wiggle is 16 seconds, so lets assume in the middle) and 1.5 seconds to hook them. This means that first hook took 45 + 3 + 8 + 1.5 = 57.5 seconds
Generator progress:
1: 72.5 seconds
2: 72.5 seconds
3: 72.5 seconds
4: 15 seconds
5: 0 seconds
Hook Progress:
1: 1 hook
2: 0 hooks
3: 0 hooks
4: 0 hooks
Now it probably takes the killer another 10-15 seconds to find the next survivor and start a chase with them, while 1 survivor starts running for the save, and lets say they also heal their friend for the full 16 seconds (meaning lets say it takes 45 seconds to unhook the survivor and heal them). After 45 seconds of the second chase, 1 survivor on hook, 1 survivor saving the hooked one, and 1 on gens you have:
Generator progress:
1: complete
2: complete
3: complete
4: 15 seconds
5: 0 seconds
Hook Progress:
1: 1 hook
2: 1 hook
3: 0 hooks
4: 0 hooks
Now, every chase, hook and down will take 57.5 seconds, and during this time, a single survivor is on a generator. So for the next chase you have:
Generator progress:
1: complete
2: complete
3: complete
4: 72.5 seconds
5: 0 seconds
Hook Progress:
1: 1 hook
2: 1 hook
3: 1 hooks
4: 0 hooks
and then the next
Generator progress:
1: complete
2: complete
3: complete
4: complete
5: 0 seconds
Hook Progress:
1: 1 hook
2: 1 hook
3: 1 hooks
4: 1 hooks
and then you get 2 more hooks before the last gen is completed.
This gives you 6 hooks for the 5 gens done. But you haven't killed anyone because you intentionally didn't tunnel. Yet BHVR themselves have stated the following facts:
- Getting kills is winning, hooks don't matter, if you get 9 hooks killing 1 survivor, you still lose
- 45 second chases is what they balance around, so if every chase lasted 45 seconds, the game should end in a draw: "2 kills, 2 escapes"
This proves that if you don't tunnel, or try to eliminate someone early, by the very state the game is balanced around, then you cannot draw the game.
This is also obviously in a vacuum as not every chase lasts 45 seconds, some last shorter, some are longer. But this is the number the BALANCE the game around. Thus if the game were BALANCED then the goal would be 2 escapes 2 kills being a draw. But if you don't eliminate someone early, you cannot draw the game.
All this math is impressive, and I commend you for writing all of it. But I can't help being a bit skeptical.
You calculated all of that by keeping in mind that average chase time is balanced for 45s, admitting that it can take more or less.
But since you're calculating average killer efficiency, then the survivor efficiency should also be calculated on average, and not with maximum efficiency in mind.
You took into account :
- All survivors on different gens : people usually group up, especially on their first gen, making them at least 15% less efficient.
- No travel time between generators : Especially as gens pop and gens left to do get scarcer, the survivors don't have an innate instinct of where the next gen is, there is usually a decent amount of running around trying to find the next one, especially on interior maps or darker maps where gens get more difficult to find. Plus not always running, since you don't want to catch the attention of the killer if they're in between chase, or take the risk of killer switching to you if you're an already identified weaker looper.
- No secondary objectives done : In your calculation, no survivor opens any chests, boons/cleanses any totems. That is not the average survivor behavior.
I'd say that a lot of killers have a built-in slowdown or a mechanic that ends chases quicker, but since there's no way to make an average of that I'll leave it out.
But yeah, in calculations, one side should not be calculated as perfectly average and the other as perfectly efficient. It mechanically tips interpretation.
As I said with the previous message, I respect your opinions and the effort you put in furthering your argument, but I'm still not really convinced. And I don't think I will easily either, so you don't have to invest more time in changing my mind.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think killer is easy peasy either, but I just think the necessity of tunneling is exaggerated, and would genuinely hate if there were to be general survivor objectives nerfs to "incentive not tunneling" with no disincentives to it. I think if there is a problem with survivor efficiency, it's mostly at higher mmrs and comes from higher rarity items which I would not mind retiring or reworking. But making gens take eons is not the solution in my books.
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True.
As the game is right now, plenty of killers complaining about games being too difficult and who feel forced to tunnel to keep their winrate up are just... above their comfort zone mmr-wise. They would do excellent without tunneling if they accepted a few losses and to remain in their comfort bracket.
Slowing down the game more, I fear, won't change anything. Those players will rise in mmr again as their current opponents get hit with the nerf and struggle a little bit in the first few weeks, now killer hits uncomfy zone again, and feel like they need to tunnel to keep their winrate high again.
Back to square 1, except now survivors feel like they need to bring busted stuff to have a chance, which in turns makes tunneling feel even more necessary.
Like it happened before with the 90s gens.
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Always try and make sure others have a good experience as well by all the means I have. =)
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Should honestly be tested again, especiallly with these mentions to prevent survivors abusing it AND with this system deactivated in endgame.
Killers would not be happy but it would be fair.
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Don't get discouraged by a single game, as you got quite unlucky.
I tend to play overly fair, and the vast majority of the time it is well appreciated. Especially if I start off the chat saying I had fun and praising something they did, like maybe one save I didn't see coming or one of them was a great looper. (Naturally, only if the team was not bm-ing during the game)
With the team you got, you probably wouldn't have had the time because they were set on being asses, but I've found survivors often linger a little bit in the endgame screen to see if anyone says anything, and once they see you're not ggez-ing them, they're usually pretty nice !
Works as well when you get wiped too. I'll say something like "Well, that was a curbstomp ! Amazing work guys !" and then chat with them to debrief the game. I actually found a coach this way, who's now become a very close friend. =D
(At least that's my experience)
(I also do the same as survivor to similar results, if a little rarer because I praise only fair killers and those are usually the quiet "gg and move on" type)
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I don't really like RE as a license, but in the context of DbD I enjoy playing as and against Nemesis.
Really hate Wesker though. His chase music was amazing the first 10 times I heard it but by now it's just noisy and loud and everywhere, and his voice irritates me.
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I'd say 50% to be completely equal, but remembered that stats would be skewed by some games with early suicides, and somewhat different rates in low and high, so let's say 60% as now for the funsies.
Anything more would be unfair. Survivors don't need to escape every game, but they need to feel like they at least had a solid chance given they play right.
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Been using them since I started playing at the anniversary to switch between serious Legion (default Frank) and goofy Legion (bunny Julie). Didn't know it was knew then ^^'