Faulds
Faulds
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@Ula said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2906436#Comment_2906436
Interesting idea, but having to do 4 boxes every time is way too much. 2 or 3 box searches would be more reasonable.
I think Pig has enough slowdown (even if it is currently rng), she needs improvements on her ambush.
Four boxes isn't too much time wise. When they reworked her add-ons they made sure that the survivors had time to do all four with every add-on combinations... even if the survivors get interrupted multiple times. I never have any problem doing four boxes... unless the Pig i face get lucky and knows that it is my last box. This is the only thing that bothers me when i get to the fourth one. Not "do i have time?", but "don't understand please....".
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AFK Pig strat underlines a larger problem with jigsaw boxes. If the survivor is unlucky, a pig can easily camp a box and make the survivor unable to do anything. I think that talking about it is a good thing... because it is also an opportunity to talk about how survivors getting their headtraps off first try isn't fair; exactly like a Pig able to easily camp a box. There is an easy way to fix both issues at the same time: survivors have to do four boxes everytime, but five boxes spawn instead of four.
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Actually not a bad idea. Maybe 9% speed boost increase per token could be a bit much. But, overall, i dig it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904370#Comment_2904370
Man I run Huntress Lullaby on my doctor, and sometimes if the MMR has put me against newer players I literally have to drop someone in front of the hex so they cleanse it, otherwise they don't even stand a chance of surviving.
HL doesn't need to be buffed, it's deadly to beginners, and an irritant to experienced players lol
This is literally why it needs to be buffed. You only activate it at full power when you're already winning by a lot. It should activate a bit sooner.
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@jesterkind said:
I think Lullaby should have one token. After you hook someone, it activates, and all skillchecks are silent until the totem is cleansed.
I am sympathetic to the idea that new players would struggle to figure out what's going on if it just was already active at the start, but if it has a defined activation requirement like this, it'll be easier to connect the thread of "I saw the Cursed thing pop up and then skillchecks were made silent, so those two things must be related", and then they can go hunt down the totem. Which, y'know, will be harder since they're new, but... that's true of all hexes, not just Lullaby.
To be honest. I would even be fine with a three stacks requirement, if the devs want the perk to be a bit delayed. But i think five is just too much.
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If a perk needs to block totems, as a rework, i think it would make more sense to add it on Thrill of the hunt. Since the perk lost its alert noise, i think it lost its primary effect. All we get is a totem cleanse slowdown and a decoy... i think it need one good principal effect.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904389#Comment_2904389
- Its punishment of new players or those who can't hit Great Skill Checks. Newer players trying to help veterans with generator repairs tend to make the situation worse rather than better.
- The passive nature of the gameplay pressure it provides means that there is a huge amount of potential with very little effort or risk on behalf of The Killer.
- Its inconsistency due to the random nature of the appearance interval of skill checks.
These were the reasons BHVR listed for the ruin change. Almost all of them could be applied to your proposed buff for huntress' lullaby.
The first point is the most important though. New players already struggle with skill checks and this perk would make it even worse with no warning sound and increased regression + info for the killer. Seasoned players wouldn't even have to bother with this.
Newer players also don't know totem spawns, meaning that getting rid off the hex is another problem for them but not for experienced players that know totem locations.
Your buff wouldn't make the perk viable in higher level play and of course it wouldn't see more play there, but it would make the game a lot worse for beginners and I think that isn't a healthy change.
New players get trashed by anything anyway. That is not a good way to make a perk balanced. Having played against old ruin. The Ruin change didn't only change new players gameplay. So pretending that this was the only reason, and the valid reason for this change, is false. I don't care what the devs say. Having to find one totem every game before doing gens was annoying for everyone... that is the real reason it was a healthy change. NOED has exactly the same problem, even worse, and they still didn't change it. Lastly, learning to do skillchecks under Huntress lullaby looks way easier to learn than doing old ruin skillchecks. They are not at the same level of difficulty. Ruin made more skillchecks proc... all you need to do to counter Huntress lullaby is to pay more attention to your screen. I don't think it is at old ruin skillchecks level of difficulty at all.
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I think what we need the most for hex consistency is more hex defence perks like undying... and some more decoys like haunted/ retribution. Pentimento is able to block all totems if they have been rekindled... maybe a perk that would block other hex totems under certain circumstances would make a great totem defence perk.
I don't think that the core mechanic of hexes need changes: because, in the end, we need those bad totem spots to make those hex inconsistent.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
The thing is that for beginners this would effectively bring back old ruin while experienced players wouldn't even bother looking for the totem. I don't think overly punishing new players is a good idea.
It has never been easier to deal with totems than now: between boons and perks that allows to look for totems. I'd even say that the introduction of boons made hexes overall weaker, and made the survivors learn how to deal with it more efficiently. And the real problem with old ruin was that it was overused (80% of the matches if i recall). Not sure that Huntress lullaby would be used as much even if buffed.
@Salvador578 said:
Just leave Huntress Lullaby alone, I still get PTSD flashbacks whenever impossible skill-check Doctor is brought up. Thank god Almo got into a game with one that relentlessly bullied him and right after Huntress Lullaby got beat into the dirt.
No, i won't leave that perk alone cause it is wasted potential.
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Technically, grades shouldn't be shown... but mmr should be in their place then.
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I never have any problem with pipping as killer. Its way easier than survivor, you can do consistently good if you do well in the trial (absolutely not the case when playing survivor). If you had such a hard time during the game, maybe thats why your pipping wasn't good even though you killed three of them... because you barely beat them.
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They don't need to revert any of his nerfs, they made it for a good reason. They just went overboard with the ADS charge penalty, it should go down from 0,4 seconds to 0,3 seconds. I think he should be fine then. No one complains about Trickster having a long time to charge up his attack, and he's charging up his knifes within 0,35 seconds. (Source: dbd wiki).
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About reworking noed, i think that " QuestionedTurkey " propositions are the best i've heard (NOED not a hex, and lasts for 1 minute after the fifth gen pops). Your idea isn't bad, but i think it overcomplexifies something that could be changed in a more simple manner.
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I would love it too, if we got that bonus permanently. That and the double points bonus to the rituals. Feels good.
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The nerf to pop timer wasn't needed at all... i agree.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881874#Comment_2881874
It feels filthy to you, but the great thing is as a killer you can make a conscious decision not to use it and as a survivor you can outright prevent it from ever being an issue. It does not matter whether you feel someone had low input or lacked skilled because at the end of the day your actions or rather inaction to cleanse is what harmed you. You took a risk and lost, that doesn't mean the perk needs to change. It means you as a player need to learn how to hedge your bets. It's far easier to cleanse totem than at any other point in the history of this game.
Take that into consideration for a moment, there was time when finding totems as a survivor was next to impossible unless you ran small game which was not as good as it now or a map which burned super fast. What does NOED have to shield it? Undying if by some insane miracle it survivors until endgame which is a virtual impossibility.
People always telling killers their not entitled to kills and that is...correct. Killers aren't entitled to anything, but survivors aren't entitled to constantly campaign for the removal of a threat at a game design level when you can stop it using the tools at your disposal. Your feelings of moral impropriety don't factor in at all. If there were a legitimate problem with NOED other than it being a beginner's trap, I'd probably be more inclined to agree probably. Yet, it isn't there isn't any real problem with the perk just people feels about the perk. It has counterplay, it does nothing more than what its designed to do, doesn't provide an advantage that is greater than its risk and considering how the perk hasn't been touched in literal years the stats probably aren't supporting the narrative that this perk is problematic.
You can deny the truth all you want the truth is the truth. Truth exist whether you know it or not. Stop being delusional. This perk isn't balanced and healthy for the game.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Imo, the box searches should require a certain number of searches rather than the key being in a certain box. One trap will come off first try, one trap requires 2, and so on, but in a random order. This means removing 4 traps takes 10 collective box searches no matter what, reducing the RNG and allowing pig to be buffed in some other way. Then add a 5th box to prevent box camping.
It would still be RNG on a very limited traps. Having a difficult game and getting a trap, just so you lose it instantly feels awful. It should never happen. There is no valid reason for it.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/317174/noed-rework-idea
That is a full regression from the point the devs spent many hours getting the perk to its at now.
NOED's original effect used to be just giving a speed boost and it also used to not be a hex perk. After a lot of iterations they finally made it a hex perk that gives exposed because that actually gave the perk a meaningful effect on the game.
Stop trying to change this perk, it's fine. Players need to learn to do totems which isn't even hard to do as countering totems is like the 3 most supported mechanic in the game. You have counterforce, small game, detective's hunch, maps, and boons to work with yet people would rather try and change a perk that is just decent at best to be objectively worse than just play the game and use the tools you have been given.
I don't even use the perk anymore, but these threads straight up make me angry because I'm playing the same game as the rest of y'all under the same conditions, but can not understand why it seems people will not use the tools available to solve an issue that the devs put in specifically to address said issue.
You don't know how angry it makes to always see people that doesn't understand how stupid of a perk it is. You all have no idea how BS it is. Getting stupid comebacks with low inputs isn't healthy for the game... and i'm not only talking from a survivor point of view: i'm talking as a killer who actually made stupid comebacks in some games. It feels filthy to win like this... cause its not up to your own skill.
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What about a killswitch NOED test then?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881645#Comment_2881645
And leave 3 other players on gens (in most scenarios, not this one ofc)? I just really don't get why you put on passive slowdown which allows you to chase someone else, even if the slowdown isn't much, and then ignore the bonus you can get and continue to guarantee one kill that will cost you the game
Because the slowdown isn't consistent. You play pig and see traps getting off in seconds. You don't know how frigging annoying and unfair that BS is. At best one survivor gets to search four boxes. Friggin ONE.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881641#Comment_2881641
Why would you voluntarily waste time to drop someone to put on a trap just to tunnel them when they couldn't have been on a gen anyway because of travel time
Like I said she literally legged it across the map to tunnel.
As a pig you never know how much pressure you get off of a headtrap. A survivor can do one box or more (but its usually not much). The best way to make the trap effective is to tunnel.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881633#Comment_2881633
So why even use the trap in the first place??
To keep them of gens.
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Ignoring a survivor with a trap active is the best way to lose all pressure: they can get it off on the first try, and you'll never get a headpop if you don't tunnel them off the boxes. Like someone said before, tunneling someone out of the game is the best way to pressure the survivor team: you get someone out, or the team throws to protect the tunneled one.
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I already felt a difference with the precedent nerf. I think this one will put the perk where it should be though. Infinite self-heals aren't a problem, self-care is deemed to be a killer perk for a reason.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881376#Comment_2881376
Yes it is? It only lights up one totem when it activates.
Cleansing noed isn't like cleansing your usual hex. It is harder.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881358#Comment_2881358
How? You can cleanse one totem on your own, you have very little input over whether your teammates get hooked in solo queue.
NOED isn't about cleasing one totem.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881321#Comment_2881321
But it wouldn't be stealthing "a bit", it'd be stealthing for effectively the whole match to potentially deny value from a perk the killer might not even have. That's honestly not much less of an ask than cleansing dull totems- and if you're the first person found, chased, and hooked, there is no coordinating to stop your teammates from getting hooked if you're in SoloQ, that simply isn't happening.
Killers also can't passively benefit from NOED right now, that isn't a thing. Even if they're camping the first down they get, the totem can be cleansed and the risk for saving eliminated. With this idea, too, there'd be no need to camp; just make sure you get them to second stage and then mori them after they're saved, because their DS can't hit you that way. It is on all levels and in every regard infinitely less counterable than current NOED.
I want to make it clear that I'm trying to reach you on your level here. If you think NOED is a problem now, with the counterplay that it currently has, then taking that counterplay away for a materially stronger effect is worse.
Current NOED is stupid, it is about luck... and it is putting all the work on the survivors shoulders. Gaining tokens require skills. Getting a hex lit doesn't. Making sure that not all survivors are hooked once before the fifth gen pops is more doable than coordinating solo q survivors about cleansing a hex. Cause yourself can work towards it on your own, and you have clear info about the state of the situation.
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@GoshJosh said:
While I like perks that reward trying to go for unique survivors, perks that require hooking all four for any effect are a very bad design. Look at Grim Embrace, how many times have you seen it run (outside of Adept Artist attempts)? I can guarantee you can count on one hand the number of times you’ve seen it. Terrible reward for strenuous effort. Sometimes you just have that one immersed survivor, who you never come across while going for others and patrolling gens. This is why BBQ and No Way Out are good design: they encourage going for all survivors without demanding it.
So as much as I hate NOED in its current form and want change, this isn’t it.
About grim embrace... i've actually loved using it. It is not that bad.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881314#Comment_2881314
...I just can't agree with that statement. I don't see how coordinating to deny the killer hook states is easier and more reliable counterplay than cleansing a single lit totem.
But it is. One survivor can decide to stealth a bit before the fifth gen pops. You can try your harder after the fifth gen pops to make the chase the longer possible so he can't camp and guarantee a kill because of the timer. That is more of a reliable counterplay than cleansing totems in solo q. If the killer wants to camp and secure a kill, if he doesn't take risks... then survivors would know to not do also. On every end killers would have to be active to get the most value from their perk instead of being passive. I've decided to stop using noed until its changed because of that. I don't only have an experience on the receiving end about that matter. And from both sides, that is stupid.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881303#Comment_2881303
I guess I could see that, that's technically a little bit of info.
I feel like killers usually get at least one hook on everyone before the endgame, though? Either way, giving the survivors a little bit more info isn't really the point, the point is that an uncounterable version of NOED is obviously worse than the very, very counterable version we have now.
That is not just a bit of info. That is also reliable counterplay for solo q survivors. They can coordinate easily on that task with skill. What is not the case for current noed.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881291#Comment_2881291
The fifth gen popping is what powers the exit gates, you read that correctly. A timer that long still isn't counterable, the only thing you can do is either leave or run away. Current NOED is counterable; you can cleanse the lit totem, or if you're particularly industrious, cleanse all five dull totems. This version wouldn't be.
I'm also not sure where the info comes in? Where would this version give more info than current NOED?
You really don't see how this new form gives more info to a team of survivor? Really? If the killer didn't hook everyone once, there is no possibility for noed. None. You won't get backstabbed out of the blue.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881269#Comment_2881269
Yes, exactly. It is completely uncounterable, your only choice is to leave or try and stealth through the duration, and running away isn't a counter. Compare to the current NOED, which can be both prevented from ever activating through direct survivor action and cleansed if it does activate.
Making NOED uncounterable would be okay if its effect were different, but this is the normal NOED effect with 1% shaved off the speed and a mori mechanic added in. That's way too much to not have a counter.
You'd have plenty of counterplay actually. Making sure that all survivors aren't hooked once before the fifth gen pops gives good counterplay and info to survivors... unlike current noed. And that is only one thing.
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@DBDVulture said:
I feel bad for the people I am playing against. Several times I get someone or multiple someones who have 100 hours and end up in my lobby.
Whatever they are trying with MMR is a complete failure because kills do not reflect skill. Skill as a survivor is how well you can loop the killer and how much generator progress you can make while not being chased by the killer (as well as saves, breaking hexes and healing others).
If you finish a generator in 80 seconds and I finish mine in 74 seconds then I am "better" at fixing generators than you because I made several great checks (obviously ignoring perks & items).
It is a bit strange to say mmr doesn't work when every killer admits that the game became harder for them since it was implemented... to the point that some just quitted.
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@jesterkind said:
I'm not sure I'm on board for an uncounterable version of NOED. Doesn't that make everyone's problems with it much worse?
At the bottom of the picture, it says active for 120 seconds though.
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881208#Comment_2881208
The problem with this version is that it rewards poor Killers. It rewards for basement bubba, camping killers, etc. It just feels cheap.
People that defend current version of NOED don't understand that, and aren't even trying. I'd advise you to not bother too much arguing... it is a lost cause; i've tried it. Until BHVR decide to change it, it won't go through.
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@Yankus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881218#Comment_2881218
I think he's talking about how when you M1 a survivor when your power is on cooldown it increases the cooldown.
Oh, i didn't understand. I don't play legion. Then yeah, that doesn't make much sense.
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@AhoyWolf said:
I mean, of course not, but I want to ask, with the Legion update in the next mid-chapter, will this penalty get removed? I don't see a point in it other than to limit an already limited power that cannot reliably down people.
It's a relic from the first time the Legion was released and I think with the Legion's update it's time to remove it completely, since it doesn't serve any gameplay purpose other than to prevent m1 to m2 combo??? Which wouldn't actually help with anything really.
You don't see the problem? That Legion wouldn't be counterable for survivors. Legion gets a free hit with his power... what do you think would happen if he didn't have a penalty after cancelling his power? The survivor would go down whatever he does.
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@Sbrunch said:
Circle of Healing has a problem that is not the healing speed.
Since it came out in that dreaded october night so many killers have been gutted of their strategy.
Legion is getting a buff but its whole game was hit and run, so was wraith (although it has been nerfed into the ground).
Even ignoring these two killers hit and run was a great viable strategy to spread preassure, now instead killers can't protect a side of the map because as long as there is a CoH on the other side it's a lose lose situation.
Either the killer commits to chases and loses gens or the killer goes boon hunting on the other side of the map and also loses gens.
Defending a 3-gen is no longer a good strategy if you dont have an instadown or antiloop or chase oriented killer.
This is the problem with CoH, the fact that it discourages entire killers and playstiles from seeing play.
The problem is that the killer cannot see the aura of the boon in any way as there aren't even perks for it.
The problem is that the survivors know where the boon is and don't need to look for it.
The problem is that it's an infinitely usable and infinitely replaceable weapon as the killer can't break totems but the survivor can relight them.
The problem is that when the map gets smaller due to the gens on one side being done it is detrimental for the killer to do anything about a totem away from his gens.
I understand that most things that people on this forum suggest would rework the whole boon system and that's not good as it would kill other perks or make them too complicated. Therefore suggestions such as "make totems be blessable one time only, or one time each" or "make CoH have a shorter range than other boons" or even "make the killer see the aura of the boon totem or the survivors not see it" are going to be ignored regardless of how much support they recieve.
I would then suggest that CoH either didnt allow to selfheal (while still boosting selfheal via medkit and selfcare) and therefore make it a time-saver where the whole team (or part of it) can run to to reset without allowing the single survivor alone to have access to infinite medkit charges without a team-mate.
Otherwise I would suggest that CoH would work like a super-medkit. Meaning that the boon has charges (say 64, a full heal for 4 survivors) that after they have been used no longer allows self heals or heal boosts and the only way to re-have your charges is to have the killer snuff the totem and relight another one.
What do you fellow forum-lurkers think about it?
When you play against swf with comms, they will coordinate on heals efficiently. COH helps solo q survivor teams to do the same. What's problematic with COH isn't that... it is the insane healing speed that survivors get for free. Self-care is deemed by a lot of people to be a killer perk... so infinite self heal isn't the problem.
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That would be something i'd love for sure. But why did you diminish the speed bonus to 3%? I'd keep the 4%. But, otherwise, great idea!
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If they nerf COH healing speed boost to 50% (from 75%)... it would be enough: so the perk is still strong, but not busted. I think the simple solutions are the better.
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@Adaez said:
I do think after a Hex is destroyed,the hex should retain half of its power somehow,its unfair to use a perk that can permanently be disabled so easy.
That sounds like a good idea too.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2871150#Comment_2871150
I'd say it works on more perks than not. Only a small handful of perks would be completely incompatible with this idea.
Devour Hope/ Haunted grounds/ Retribution/ Crowd control/ Third seal/ Plaything... i don't see much how it could be reworked in that way to be honest.
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@TAG said:
I've never been crazy about Hexes because of the huge variance involved. The one idea I heard that I really liked was that Hex perks should be reworked and rebalanced to have their abilities scale with how many totems are still in play instead of having an "eggs in one basket" approach where cleansing one specific totem shuts off a hex perk completely.
For Ruin it works... but i don't know about others.
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@TheArbiter said:
Yes, hexes should have a mini corrupt at the start of the match that lasts 60 seconds so you get SOME use out of them but they still retain high risk high reward.
That could work too.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801223#Comment_2801223
This is seriously the saddest thing I've seen here. Buddy, go outside or something for your own sake. You are way too into this place, like to an unhealthy level.
I'm working. A small job, but still one... until i find a real situation. Thank you for your concern.
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I love how everyone says the game became harder on both sides... but sbmm doesn't work. Yeah, that doesn't make much sense. SBMM is not a problem, it is the imbalances in the core of the game that are. The biggest one that should be looked into, i think, is map balance.
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I'd love a feature like that.
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Nah, the perk is fine as it is. It has only one good combo: pain resonance. Killers can't camp and get value from dead man's switch... unless they are artist. But that's more of a "one killer and one perk" interaction problem.
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2862185#Comment_2862185
i mean yes but power wise she isnt much stronger and theoretically STBFL works decently on her aswell... my point is sadako does what pig is suppose to better... i used to main pig(1 year ago) and i dont see a reason why anyone would choose pig over sadako (i've only played like 80 games with her or something like that so im not that good with sadako but hey) as i said the pressure from condemned is pretty much the same from pig... and no you cant guarantee a head pop everygame if survivors wants to 99 their gens you cant do anything about it + chasing a survivor with a helmet removes that pressure from him and the others can do boxes + if you do decide to tunnel him and he manages to survive and all other get their traps off they can escape and its a hatch race...
First, sadako can't keep stacks against the obession but pig can because she has a special attack. There is no comparison between a killer that can save stacks and one that can't. And yes, if you know how to play pig and use some add-ons... you can pretty much get a headpop on a regular basis, way more than condemn. Condemn can be countered on your own as survivor really easily all the time... can't say the same about headtraps.
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Unless doc has add-ons to decrease the time required to blast... you should be able to unhook as a team. Otherwise, it is another Bubba like issue... devs are afraid to overnerf the killer by taking some measures.
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Pig can use "save the best for last" better than most killers. Definitely better than Sadako that's for sure. Pig's headtraps are nothing like Sadako's condemn. You can pretty much guarantee a headpop every game if a survivor have four boxes to do... even quite easily with some add-ons. I'm not sure that's the case for Sadako.