Dokta_Carter
Dokta_Carter
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@oreoslurpee said:
thrill really hasnt been much of an issue ever since the noise notif got removed. of course it got tremendously strong in 10.0.0, but thats because of jason. im not calling for like, complete jason nerfs, but lets not kid ourselves that the "scream → action interrupted" wasn't the real issue on why hex jason was so strong. jason would know your there anyway because thats what you worry as killer if your running any hexes, its the fact that the action interruption after the scream causes the totem to go from X% back to 0% in an instant
if you want to keep screams able to interrupt all conspicuous actions, then a possible idea without nerfing thrill could be letting totem progress regress instead of resetting the moment you let go.
Thrill+ Face the darkness works just as well as that if not theoretically better
The build itself can also be used on other killers and still perform really well.
The build is more of the issue imho, Jason is strong I will not argue he is weak, or people don't know how to play against them. It's obvious they are strong.
but when multiple killers can use it and perform well with it, the problem is more so the build, and the one enabling the build was Hex Thrill
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Example being here, you already have 1 and your not even bringing up changes just an observation.
Some people just down vote for no good reason.
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@Cornil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101656#Comment_4101656
I think vol4r is literally just ragebaiting at this point, I wouldn't bother replying to them. 12,000 hours but claims to get consistent 4k's on Pig using a perk that hasn't synergized with their kit for over 2 years now, and another perk that literally exists just to kick pallets like .3 seconds faster. They downvote me because I speak the truth.
Yes, content creators tend to be negative because they play the game so much and this game for some reason just makes people eventually see the worst in each other. And yes, vol4r is 100% correct, the game is all about having fun. Its a video game after all.
But you know what, I have to agree with the CC's on this one, I don't think I find having such a surplus of pallets fun for either side. I want to feel rewarded for winning a chase as survivor, it feels cheap dropping so many pallets and seeing so many killers on the roster almost helpless to do anything. And I want to feel rewarded for zoning properly as killer. I shouldn't mindgame and play a pallet perfectly, force the survivor into a losing situation, just for them to break line-of-sight for 1 second and suddenly be at an equally or sometimes even more powerful tile/pallet like 10 meters away.
Is it really so controversial to say I want better map design, balanced for both sides to have at most a 60/40 or 40/60 fighting chance? Right now a lot of maps can get as bad as 20/80 depending on RNG and which killer is being played. Which maybe no one would believe me until they've played as or against a Trapper on RPD with all potential pallet spawns up, lol
It is, because your are expecting people to want to improve in the game.
People view it as a party game, when in all honesty it's a very toxic one if it is so.
But they also seem to think Party game and Competitive is mutually exclusive. Which it isn't.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101442#Comment_4101442
Last month it was Fast Track, now the excuse is pallets that have not changed in 8 months.
I seem to remember back 8 months ago, people were upset with the pallets density when it came out?
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101444#Comment_4101444
Nope, not everyone blamed fast track. I still don’t think fast track was an issue. Pallets have been though.
Not that you would but if you look through my post history i used to advocate against tunneling and even advocated for the anti tunnel system.
I do remember seeing you say that for the anti tunnel and such. Also am pretty sure you said it needed tweaks but I might be misremembering
But at the same time I'm gonna be 100% with you. Even if what danger said is true. There are degrees of issues? Like "hey X is issue I see now" doesn't make Y any less there?
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101483#Comment_4101483
Winstreaks are such a flawed way to draw conclusions about balance. People don’t understand how population statistics work. Only a handful of the worlds best players at the very very high end of the skills curve can achieve these winstreaks, yet people act like it’s representative of the average players in the middle of the curve.
Thats the thing, win streaks are not exactly good for information on a player base scale.
Even more so with you being able to march with new players who don't know much about the game
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@Wyndsor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101467#Comment_4101467
Curious how you left out the Walking Dead map.
Nevermind the fact that it doesn't matter how many pallets there are if most of them are trash, killers are doing just fine according to the most recent data + killstreaks that are on-going all over the tier-list.
If you're struggling this much, just run Legion pallet break build. This reads to me like you want only one or two strong areas of a map you can brute force so the rest of the trial can be easy, no thanks.Most recent data? Where can I find this?
Also please don't use win streaks(which I assume you meant from kill streaks) as evidence, as certain people can play Trapper, a known meh killer, and still can go on a streak.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100631#Comment_4100631
That would be such a good perk at that point, terrifying, with diminishing returns existing we should definitely get a perk like this now.
It would be fun probably, but at the same time the build variety would be a bit weird.
Since 90% of the roster would benefit from it, and most of that would dang near be a requirement for "best builds" of certain m1's so...
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@Cornil said:
Honestly I think you could go even further, why not let the killer abandon the moment the last generator is completed? I have so many matches against subtle cheaters that I've started to stopwatch my matches to prove I'm not paranoid, marking a lap for each generator that's finished. I just played a match that only took 4:52 to finish all 5 generators, which included using two pain res tokens, 2 pop goes the weasels, and that's also accounting for 3 survivors on hook throughout the match. No toolboxes or gen speed perks. Literally the gen I kicked with Pop was 40%, chased around it for 20 seconds with no one on it, chased away from it for another 20-30 seconds, boom, it was finished, just like that.
If this game's awful anti-cheat can't detect people remotely auto-completing generators in my face from half-way across the map (happened to me literally just days ago), then why should I be forced to spend 2 minutes chasing around cheaters who I'll never be able to catch in the endgame? It's insulting that I might have to spend more time after the last gen was popped trying to get what little bloodpoints I can than the time I spent in the actual trial. Its like, you can almost never catch them anyway, they make it near impossible with how they subtly speed up around corners to reach every pallet or window. I'd abandon 9 times out of 10 if the last gen is finished and I still have 3 hooks, like come on, the game is over. I fully agree its frustrating when survivors won't just leave and let the game be over.
BUT, there is a gargantuan issue with implementing something like this, and that is survivor players trying to do challenges, like escaping through the hatch or the exit gates, would get robbed of it almost every time if killers could just abandon the moment the endgame collapse starts. Its why realistically there's no justifiable reason to implement something like this. Would it be nice for the killer player to avoid wanting to put their fist through their monitor for an extended 2 minute humiliation tour? Sure, yeah. But its not great for the health of the game itself, the match cycle would be thrown off. It'd be like survivors being able to abandon as soon as they get downed on death-hook, which used to happen a lot before the disconnect penalties were added. It ruins the other players' fun if say for instance that downed survivor was about to get flashlight saved. Now you've got a braindead bot for the rest of the match because the survivor DC'd instantly thinking the game was over for them when it wasn't.
Okay! That issue? I can agree with. Thank you for bringing it forward.
Abandoning can cause a major problem for those achievements/challenges. But at the same time let's be honest. Abandoning in general is a bit iffy on the health of the game as is?
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100518#Comment_4100518
You still didn’t explain why we need to require the killer to stay in the match once the gates are open. For what purpose? Survivors are in control too and they can just leave at any time they want once the gates are open. You keep and others keep avoiding this point. Both sides have control over what is happening in this situation, which means that they both have the ability to waste the other sides’ time. Give both sides the ability to leave without penalty if they choose so they don’t have to be subject to the other side intentionally wasting their time.
I find you asking the question to be rather genuine and wonderful. The problem some survivors have with it makes no sense?
Yes it's two minutes of wasting, but at the same time it's two minutes. Two minutes for someone who feels like they were steamrolled is never fun.
If all four are standing, it's not a win to even attempt to get a single kill. why should I attempt to push for them during EGC?
And I'm sure some people will state "well Bloodwarden, and exit blocking add-ons exist!" Having that every game is... Even more stale then my backpack build
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@Wyndsor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100538#Comment_4100538
I am not a developer, but I work in security and I'd imagine there would be a similar principle in that you design safeguards for the worst-case scenario as it only takes one instance to lose a customer for good.
In the event of a survivor getting slugged more than thrice in rapid succession, the amount of times it would fall into incidental bad luck and not targeted abuse is very slim, even less so the amount of players who would intentionally try and get slugged and picked up multiple times to go next.
As a killer, you can just hook them, as a survivor, you can just not heal them. So there is already agency involved for those interacting with a bad actor, but there still needs to be agency for the person who might be the victim of chain-slugging.
The abandon feature already exists and has minimal downsides for false-positives in my opinion, why would they go out of their way to develop an entirely new AFK system (never-mind the fact that the last one was a failure) when they could simply slap the abandon clause and resolve that specific issue entirely?
The system is fine as is, there is no need to change it, in fact, if we did add another clause, it would be a 2v1 situation allowing the slugged survivor to abandon.Wait, I am confused, is it just a coincidence that when ever I'm slugged on a 2v1 I can immediately abandon if I wish? Like the amount of times this has happened is pretty high for me when I'm playing survivor.
But I do have to disagree with your take on an earlier post. I think a killer should be allowed to, yes you can get a kill at EGC, but if we use your 2v1 idea, it shouldn't be allowed for the slugged survivor to abandon, because they have a chance at hatch no?
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I disagree on making a killer version of this perk in whole.
The perk needs to be adjusted as is but giving a flat out increase in time would be to oppressive in certain situations.
Just adjust it so it it doesn't affect exposed, and tweak how it affects exhaustion then it'll ease more of the problems about the perk.
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@Mr_K said:
Fireup?
Imho, if a killer version would be made it would also need like Basic attack recover up too.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100100#Comment_4100100
It could work! Again I do like the idea of some killers being permanently present and milling about, but accept that it's a tough way to be on certain maps against a very gen-efficient team. Still, I hesitate on making modernisation of simpler killers simply giving them some kind of equivalent of a more mobile killer's traversal… It just feels like it takes away from the nice, clean, simple low-tiers we have now, if that makes sense? I did once wonder whether remote trap setting would be useful. Maybe with a 10s opening delay so you can't use it in chase to easily cut a survivor off without planning far ahead.
I've also seen a thread previously about a 'patrol mode' that non-mobile killers get. Kinda like Portia's tracking. After being out of chase for x amount of seconds, you gain a significant speed boost until you interact with something, use a power or enter chase with a survivor. I'd like to see something like that playtested to hell and back before implementation though.
PS: Trapper in OE dropping traps off is conjuring images of doubling a gen and some mysterious wind drops a beartrap nearby. Making me chuckle.
On that PS, all i think of is
"Must've been the wind"
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@cogsturning said:
Saying Nightlight is the right place for BHVR to collect data shows a complete lack of understanding about how anything works. BHVR has all the data for every bracket, every killer, every player. They're just not showing it to us. People who use Nightlight can just choose to upload their bad matches if they want to keep this very common narrative going. There's also zero indication that they're upper MMR, and even if they were I'm not sure why that matters. Upper MMR isn't made up of lords and princes who decide how the game will be for the peasants below. They don't get any more say than anyone else.
But wow, this community has hit a point of delusional where they think the average player has more knowledge of the game than those that make it.
While I don't view Nitelight as official the thing I do disagree is the devs knowing more about the game.
Data wise? Maybe. But not every dev group knows everything about their game, where as players and fans will go the extra mile to know so.
Examples being, some people finding glitches that have been hidden for ages in other games.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031169#Comment_4031169
Aside from the reduction to 40s basically being permanent, I haven't actually heard if they were reverting any part of it.
I may have missed an announcement or post though, tbf.
I have specifically always had a small issue with otr being so long, but I can seee how its a slap to the face
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@Pulsar said:
This change doesn't really do anything.
I'm not giving them props for spending 3 months on a number change that couldve been done in a day.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Highly doubtful that this change will be impactful.
And, while I don't think it will be a major difference overall, the choice to time the OTR nerf in the middle of this, as one of the changes they decided to keep, is almost disrespectful.
The first "anti tunneling" PTB resulting in nothing other than an anti tunneling perk nerf, then scrapping the whole thing soon after was a pretty big indicator to the community that things will not ever get better.
This was their chance, and they chose the actual barest minimum, but only after heavily considering the options of doing nothing at all, or just nerfing the perk and nothing else first.
@cogsturning said:
Nah. Your optimism is nice but you can't show someone a banquet only to allow them a single grape. This is the saddest little consolation prize imaginable. There's no reason they couldn't have pushed one, single aspect like anti-slug or Elsuive to live and seen how it went with regular players.
Its not about consolation prize, or amazing things. Its about the progress. Even if its small and minute its still progress.
It may be 5 s more but it's still better then the live we had before it.
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@UndeddJester said:
I like the fact this is now consistent with the self unhook from the AFC... and the AFC meter being shown is a good SoloQ SWF gap bridged.
Yeah! Im glad they added that others can see the AFC meter! It may be "bas kit kindered" but i think it is more healthy for solo q!
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@Pulsar said:
Pallet density is a bad update.
It didn't fix deadzones, nor did it fix bad maps like Haddonfield.
We should've gone through, map by map, and fixed them. Not map sweeping changes to how tile generation works.
Logical and well thought out map checking instead of realm alterations is indeed the way to go,
But I don't think they will listen to sound logic
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@Pulsar said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8ihAb0m2jM
One of the faster gen completions I've seen, around twenty seconds or so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMqolzEeHjg
BM and overconfidence is a weakness few exploit.
Woah roughly 24ish seconds on the first one you must have double taked at that speed
And that second one was peak "well well well if it isnt the consequences to my own actions" from the survivor
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@BrightWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030525#Comment_4030525
Honestly, Colt, just cope, sethe and GIt GUD scrub.
Honestly, its kinda weird how im sure if the ptb stuff went through they'd say the same to some other killer posting their disagreement with it
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The horrible thing about this whole QoL initiative
They only listen to the "No" and not the constructive criticism from the original 9.2 ptb that many people who love the game had.
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@AcesSpeedo said:
are we fr ?
i dont want blight to be nerfed because i quite like versing him. his add ons however? slight tweaks would be nice. his double speed add ons to be specific need to be reworked or lowered to 1% and 2% to give a max of 3% when paired together instead of 5% — or remove the ability to stack them.
I mean although I agree with you they do have a point. Why can spirit who was weaker then blight even at her release, get nerfed and not Blight who is seen to be even more balanced breaking?
Its mostly a thought exercise for me to wonder why certain killers get hit but the "more horrible" killers get a free pass?
Then again the devs are data driven..
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029431#Comment_4029431
No, she wasn't reworked because BHVR seems to have realized it's a waste of time.
Most players hate her, and hate the gameplay she had even without 3-genning. Most of her mains have made it clear they want that old gameplay back.
BHVR can't win, and it seems like they've decided to not waste the resources.
Did I get misinformation? Because i assumed she wasnt touched because they claimed it was due to them not wanting to upset the current mains?
This is an honest question
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029424#Comment_4029424
SM had a 70% KR without DC's or suicides, she deserved to be nerfed.
Freddy's rework was insanely popular for quite some time.
I am not saying she shouldn't have been touch, I am saying elbow droping something isnt good.
Completely gutting something is nerver good, like how they did to fog vials
The reason she wasnt touched(reworked) in ptb was specifically because Freddy's multiple reworks upset his mains. So now you can at best do one rework, without backlash
It also doesn't help that there is a knee-jerk reactions that has been happening with ptb and items.
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@BrightWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029402#Comment_4029402
I remember before the DC bots, it's just end up being 1 v 2 so I'd just go around with survivors dropping every pallet, eating the stun, then breaking the pallets and walls. Sure, it took super long when it was 2 survivors left with 3 gens to repair, but like, at that point it's not a match, it's just "welp, may as well keep playing to earn BP and try to be a good sport about it."
I try not to blame people who DC, because you never know what's going on IRL, but it does become incredibly frustrating. Especially when you're just trying to play a killer you enjoy.
I remember my first d/c from back in the day... it was deserved tbh but it was funny doctor terror radius build. Did help the rest gain BP, and they all wanted to give me the final hooks, I miss those days, felt a lot more... wholesome
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@BrightWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029401#Comment_4029401
Oh I agree, I think a disguise killer could be fun. Especially if it could disguise itself as not just other survivors, but kind of like a prophunt mimic/monster? Could quite literally call it The Mimic or The Deceiver or something along those lines. Its an elderitch monster along the lines of Unknown and/or Dredge and can change it's form at will and change into almost anything from items, to gens, hooks, other survivors or even other killers etc. While it's "true" form is a black mass with lots of eyes and tentacles or something…idk, but you get the idea.
I would hate for a rework of Legion into the disguise concept they had in their trailer (even then the "disguise" is more so that Frank had taken off his mask to run with David, which doesn't really signify that Legion had a disguise mechanic, but just was a reveal "killer in a mask" for the trailer. But I digress.), because I'd be losing a killer I fell in love with because of the "zoomies" hit and run playstyle.
It's how a lot of people feel about the Skerchant's first rework and eventual gutting, her abilities at release were overtuned and a little too versatile, and needed to be adjusted. He second release was much, much better, but still needed tweaking. She didn't deserve to be absolutely gutted.All of that above to say that killers need adjustments absolutely, but full reworks should be avoided for as long as possible to avoid a Skerchant and Chuckey "scamper" situation. No killer deserves to be nuked from orbit just because some people don't immediately grasp the counterplay. That said, there is a lot of bullshit about Ghoul, but in comparison to his release, he is much more manageable now imho.
Now all BHVR needs to do is to start readjusting some of the changes they've made to survivors, and it can start with adjusting perks that effect gen repair speeds.
Exactly. GUTTING a killer shouldn't be the answer. Mechant is the shining reason as to why not to gut a killer and Freddy is the example why you shouldn't rework willy nilly.
Both of those are last resorts not "MERCHANT THEM" which I've unironically seen?
Thanks for wording it so much better then me!
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@OmegaXII said:
Here's the hope of having more rewards for Killers spreading hooks…😞
Fingers crossed
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@BrightWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029393#Comment_4029393
It was quite hilarious tbh, I wish I had my screen capture running, but unfortunately my PC can't handle much anymore…So I am lucky to get one to three stable games of DbD before it tries to set itself on fire.
But yeah, it was like that one moment of "sir…may I have more sir?" with big old puppy eyes, and it's just…I want my Adept Legion…but not when the survivors are being bad sports and leaving the random out to dry. It's not fair on me or them, you know?
I agree with that. Its unfair to that last remaining survivor
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@BrightWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029367#Comment_4029367
Pretty much this, I play Legion because he scratches a part of my ADHD brain that likes to scream "gotta go fast!" Which makes him fun for me. It's why I also like a lot of killers who can do the Hit and Run playstyle, like Wraith, Wesker, Doctor and to an extent Ghoul. They have playstyles that help the "chase the shiny!" impulses in my brain.
I understand it's an annoying playstyle to many survivors, and even killer players who like the more strategic killers that make them feel like they're playing chess.
So the idea of reworking Legion, Wraith, Ghoul, and Wesker into something more "palatable" for everyone feels…idk targeted? Its like saying that the hit and run playstyle is wrong and shouldn't be done. But what do I know?
As someone whom enjoys legion myself, I would hate the changing of legion and crew.
While I do want a disguise killer as pulsar suggested like the teaser, we shouldn't ever change the legion for it. And anyways they cannot do that kind of killer because of specifically it being, not hard but impossible to use in certain scenarios(SWF legitimately killing their power even more so then Hag and Trapper traps)
I like the chase killers who arent to like... game breaking.
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@BrightWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029208#Comment_4029208
The one thing that would stop me from DC-ing against Plague is if BHVR added a feature that allowed me to change the sound effects of the survivors' gagging sounds, because it's not Plague herself I am against, it's the coughing and gagging my sick survivors do, which makes me feel incredibly sick when playing against her.
As a Legion main myself, I had a three-man DC against me a couple of weeks ago while trying for Adept Legion. It was after my first Feral Slash strike…it wasn't the fifth hit down, it was just me getting a single first hit. Their SoloQ teammate and I stared at each other (they were all on the same gen) as the bots scattered like startled birds, so I decided to farm the bots and let the Solo teammate leave via hatch.
That is a beautiful moment, I teared up as imagined a group of survivors scatter and one looking up like a puppy(in this case three stegulls scattering and a nancy in my imagination)
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The true horror of this game will always be toxicity in EGC imho
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@cogsturning said:
No. I don't believe in DCing and can count on one hand how many times I've intentionally DCed, but I think this issue is overblown and over discussed. My killer matches have about 5% of my opponents DCing. That's not an epidemic. People will just suicide out more. They'll bring luck offerings, AFK, slam pallets, chase the killer, etc. If people want to stop playing, they will. I'd rather them just leave and become bots instead of sabotaging the game. Bots are at least useful.
The one-DC-per-day idea that people like doesn't make sense either. Different people play different amounts. I've played more than 30 matches today. The game booted me out of one, so there's a my daily DC. If I had another server disconnect, I'd get a penalty. You can also get stuck in matches with cheaters, not to mention life stuff.
The thing is
There are two problems with doing as it is
- Negativity bias. You will always remember bad over good
- I have faced several people who have d/c first chase, all in one day on huntress, when I grabbed someone off a gen they d/c'd immediately
But thr D/C system as it is should be okay, changing it to a harsh system will allow cheaters to force them to dc(such as lagging someone ouy)
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029122#Comment_4029122
For the vast majority of players, Ghostface is totally adequate.
He isn't going to hit the highs of Blight, sure, but it's completely possible to win 70% of your games with him.
Even if we take average player into the mix
Blight still outperforms Ghosty,
Ghostface can be good yes, but blight? Is mote likely to not care about the survivors skill on any level.
Blights main Strength is Mobility, mid chase this matters more
Ghostface, needs to catch you unaware, or slowly apply their power to build up gauge
For the average survivor, going against Ghostfsce is preferable to Blight.
But yes they can still both perform well on the average match
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@ImperatorHaze said:
Hello! With all the doom and gloom about DBD dying and talk of unbalanced this and that, I have found a new way to play the game that is actually quite enjoyable as a killer player. It may even revive the player base! It does stem away from the horror genre and the entire purpose of the game, but it is another way to have fun and get your money's worth out of it(maybe).
As a killer, instead of going around and trying to kill survivors, let them win! I have found that this is actually more fun and entertaining and requires less effort on the killer side. I'll still focus on challenges, chase some people around, kick some gens, but that's it. Sure "The Entity Hungers", but that dude has been feasting on pieces of the same survivor souls forever. And besides, what's a 4k when you can have a 4f, which is the 4 friends you made along the way :)
My goal now as killer is to make sure survivors have successful escapes so they can continue enjoying the game the way it was meant to be, with very minimal pushback. That and getting some of my challenges done before switching back to survivor. But as a Harmless (Unknown) main, this is the most fun I have had with this killer in a long time, and I really hope some other players give it a go too.
@BlackRabies said:
I've done that before with Xenomorph. Just stay in my tunnels the entire time looking for all the bodies that's down there.
Problems with this is
- Skews stats, and we cant tell what's genuine or not
- If we do something as black rabies did, we can get reported for not playing the game as intended(yes there are some unique individuals who will)
- I disagree on giving them freebies, as letting them survive will just produce a sense of entitlement which will then cause toxicity against people playing as normal. Or like JohnNemsisMan, deal with toxic individuals.
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@Firellius said:
I don't think cages are worth using anymore. They're basically glorified remote hooks from the anniversary event.
How are you going to claim they're not worth using and then immediately follow it up by handwaving a huge benefit?
It's still way, way faster than normal hooking and can't be denied.
Since it's Way faster it also helps with the time required to pick up and hook, aka more time to patrolling or start a chase.
Its like in a way the perfect example of anti camp and time saving in one way.
The only problem is the occasional complete loss of pressure from certain scenarios(that ironically do happen in 2v8)
Buts its a good example of where the game could go depending on the tweaks, no?
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DDoes Trapper just keep getting worse or something?
I mean obviously not but I've been hearing these stories a lot more recently and im worried for them and their mains
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
Who keeps necroing all of these old threads?
I'm starting to notice a funny smell in the forumsIn my defense, I only cast resuscitation on a few day old one.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028339#Comment_4028339
Viability means that a killer has a reasonable chance at winning against survivors of similar skill level.
But that does require actual competence from the person playing it, too. Someone turbo-tunnelling their way into high MMR and being unable to keep up when other, more competent killer players can, does not make a killer 'non-viable'.
While I agree on your take viability requires some competency, others can use said claim on several issues
Not that i completely agree on this but an example
"Three gens, is a lack of awareness on survivors side"
But if we use competency as a reason for certain things not being able to be changed, they will use exactly that for future changes which may be healthy for the game.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028000#Comment_4028000
Why is it a pipe-dream? Bad players who refuse to improve shouldn't be accounted for balance changes. Effecient ways to win the game aside 5 gen hard-tunneling could push the game away from the boring meta it created and extend matches matches where everyone gets a chance to do something.
Its a pipedream because of
- No matter what way you chose to modify it the people who die on the us vs them hill will be against it
- The likely hood of there being enough to change the meta bring viable is low as many players on both sides have a low faith in the devs atm, steaming from way before recent patches.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027761#Comment_4027761
The survivor bonuses you listed really don't make up for a basekit brutal or temporary bonuses. Giving death hook survivors more gen speed or make them overall more efficient would encourage tunnelling because its the exact type of thing killers don't want to deal with.
Honestly after posting it I was still iffy with it.
Mainly wanted to promote discussion. Because jester had a good topic but you were the only one who responded.
If you'd like tho touch it up!
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Now for the one outside of the restriction
For killer a win is a 3k, it doesn't matter how they got here, a kill is a win. This promotes an unhealthy "all that matters is the kill your enjoyment matters not" which is competitive in nature. Which then revolves into "killer vs survivor" or rather am "us vs them"
Having a system which hooks are way more important to the win would promote a more healthy environment, you can yeah maybe win without killing a three out of four and still win, preventing the feeling that the kill is more important and enjoyment of the match is not
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@jesterkind said:
This is a take I've seen a fair amount over the last few years, and I've never understood what it means. The best way to find out about opinions you don't understand is to ask, so that's what I'm doing here!
If you personally feel this way + have made this argument before, I'm curious about two things:
- What would you actually want to see changed about the balancing for hooks over kills?
- What is it about the current state of things that makes you think BHVR are balancing for kills over hooks?
So, some specific ideas for what could change, and some specific things about the previous few years that make you think BHVR balance for kills over hooks, if you don't mind.
There is one restriction though: Don't mention the MMR system. It's not a balancing variable, it's a matchmaker, and while I do have a suspicion at least a few people who talk about this really just mean they want the matchmaker adjusted, I prefer not to assume people mean something other than what they say. So instead, I'm asking in good faith for a balance discussion and not a matchmaker discussion.
I appreciate any answers I get!
Okay I have one answer following the restriction, and another that explains on the mmr side this first one is following the restriction.
So how would we balance the game itself?
Hook states having unique modifiers for survivors
Example 1)
Survivors first hook, you gain lets say Resolve 1
Resolve 1, gaves a buff to interaction speed, up to end game., this interaction speed focuses on healing, chests, Totem cleansing, and unhooks(to promote altruism a little)
Survivor second hook- Resolve 2, minor Gen speed bonus, your grunts of pain, or liller interactive powers are muffled extremely slightly
1 survivor dead, "Determined to survive " kicks in
Each survivor gains a third of what would a survivor helping you with an interaction from another survivor.
All of this last to endgame, or Hatch opens
Killer side Blood thirst
For each unique hook you gain a token, this token is 5% of basically brutal strength. So if every one is one hooked, 20% brutal, and it stays here.
For each fresh hook, they gain Entity's Delight, which is ether Pop, Pain Res, or Eruption (trying to figure out which is more healthy) for one time.
When a killer has hooked a survivor twice(Feng min on death hook) they can more them, but This will remove every effects you get from the benifits
Again these are ideas
Now lets talk about the why the current state balances off kills rather then hooks.
Survivors gain NOTHING from a death hook, so if a killer gets a survivor out its evident the kill is more important to the over all game then the hook states
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@TheGoon224 said:
no really I have not touched the killer role in over a month because I’ve been in this exact cycle for that long like I don’t know why I’m doing this, It just kind of happened. I mean upside I got my Orela prestige 30 downside being I still have not played killer.
Is it due to anxiety building up?
Or is it due to the stress around it?
KKiller anxiety/stress has been a thing I've seen thrown around.
Even today I had two matches and just... wanted to stop playing killer for the day
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027467#Comment_4027467
It definitely existed before it, but I would certainly agree that the result focused metrics for the game have empowered a lot of it. With emblems you could at least lose something like a 4E or 4K and still have some verification that you played in a skilled way. Dying with a 2 pip made you feel like Atlas, and it was up to the player whether they focused on his burden or his accomplishment. It wasn't perfect, but this version of MMR, and especially its obfuscation paired with things like misleading personal stats, causes it to be more about disparaging others ("You wouldn't know, I'm at HIGH MMR") and doesn't even allow the personal growth/accomplishment aspect it is supposed to in order to encourage climbing.
"Ah, but this us a party game, not a competitive one"
But i agree with you whole heartedly
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027461#Comment_4027461
I'm well aware of how much people have (and continue to) object to actually playing the game that they bought for the express purpose of playing. Unfortunately after a point it becomes more about their addiction to the game than the game itself, chasing dopamine hits and refusing when they're denied. You can never please someone who only wants to win, but you can help that person see more to competition than the desired outcome. Thats why I tend to recommend advice on making the most of bad situations, and game design focused around reducing unnecessary frustrations. Its also why I still think MMR and how it was implemented was one of the worst things for player mentalities in the game.
The MMR system as it is id just.… disgusting.
One sided victory condition does not meet the other at all(one is killing all 4 other players. The other is personal)
One sides most efficient way of winning is ruining another players fun
This Mmr system is what propagates the US vs them mentality, among other things
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027379#Comment_4027379
Aside from the obvious answer of killers whose power relies on slugging (like oni, but especially twins) they also made it easier to avoid the killer's attention when returning to a slug with the changes to picking yourself up and the crawling speed. And thats not even talking about perks like Conviction or Tenacity that allow for even more relocation.
As for the last part, how far do we need to move the goal post? You're supposed to try because you're still playing the game. I don't see that as any different than killers who have to wait for survivors to leave at the exit gates, which gets argued against since it would end the game prematurely (regardless of how much or little) due to the killer not being replaced by a bot. You answered your own question both with the fact that hatch is still possible, and also that a gate escape is also still possible. If you want out that bad as the last survivor with less chance than you're willing to participate in, just run into the killer and accept the mori you won't have to even watch because you'll be allowed to abandon before it goes off. Think of it like the survivor equivalent of "hitting them out" but with a lot less downtime and BM.
Ryuhi, people also believe that no dc penalties should be a thing and that they can screw over teammates because they dont like x killer, so playing the game wont work as reasoning
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@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026911#Comment_4026911
I don't mind that part of abandoning, but I kinda wish the killer got a similar prompt for when at least one exit gate is opened. I also just want abandoning to properly track the match as a win or loss because I swear it screws with MMR and kill rates since I believe the stats they publish excludes matches with abandoning.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027009#Comment_4027009
Removing this condition to abandon would fix a lot of the issues of "going next" with it. I think instead of allowing a dc with no penalties it should just immediately kill you and not replace you with a bot. Bots in general replacing players after a dc I think need to be removed entirely, but once again, that's another story to tell.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027020#Comment_4027020
It existing means my teammates can entirely drop out of matches the rest of us are trying to play and ruin the rest of the match entirely for us. (Just happened to me last night.)
I disagree with your idea on the bot, people were upset. Both killer and survivor to deal with a first second dc, because of exactly "not wanting to deal with x killer" and making the match absolutely horrendous experience, this could also potentially cause the same toxic scenes
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026931#Comment_4026931
This, plus the unhooked survivor would be injured off hook and basically have a shorter chase by default.
I'd go with a repair speed increase upon first kill, which scales down with number of hooks. First kill on three hooks nets the biggest bonus, whereas six hooks doesn't incur any.
Honestly fair, below you is a similar suggestion
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026842#Comment_4026842
Right thanks for admitting you don't play or bought him to know what your talking about. Just because he's enjoyable for you doesn't mean he is for the vast majority.
Ghoul you admit is a problematic killer that needs to be adjusted and tuned more especially his Scamper
They said
1 hate when they use certain addona
2 hate when ghoul uses their power to tunnel
This entire time they have been defending his scamper
I played a few ghoul matches, and i can say his scamper isnt as busted as you say?
I can understand disliking their scamper, but apparently every single scamper power is to much too? I've seen people saying WESKER and Legions scampers have to go too?