Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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deja vu is not meta. its sitting at around 2.5% according to nightlight. The best perks in dbd are often unearned and entirely consistent either directly or indirectly.
None of killer perks are earned either because what the perk condition is naturally done by the killer in the match. Let's just look at top 10 perks for killer at least by usage rate.
Jolt requires downs but you need downs in general as killer to win. automatic
Sloppy butcher is not an earned perk. you need to m1 to down survivors which happens naturally. Automatic perk
Eruption and Pop goes weasel are perks where killer plans to kick gens. Once again your not earning the perk. the perk naturally boosts your gameplay because your planning around the perk to use it in a match.
Nowhere to hide is free aura reading when kicking gens. goes back to planned gameplay
BBQ is free aura reading when hooking someone. Again nothing really earned. you have to hook survivors to win.
CI is automatic
Lethal pursuer is automatic
Deadlock is automatic
Save the best for last is automatic
Scourage hook pain res is free automatic generator regression for hooking. You need hooks to win, so works as BBQ.
Bamboozle is passive perk. automatic.
The survivor meta is no different then killer meta in term of automatic perks. Adding poor trigger condition is how you make terrible perk in dbd.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462713#Comment_3462713
I can count on one hand the amount of nurses I’ve seen since her big changes.
Blight has 2 addons that could use a change. Basekit is perfect.
Wesker, I agree is totally perfect.
they made nurse not newbie friendly. basically only people playing nurse were people that played nurse regularly before and were already good at her. I kinda miss playing starstruck nurse. that was so much fun to play. just massive high-action chaos. Its funny because as soon as trickster came out, I started using that build in secret, then I kinda said it was best build for nurse then other people started using it and you started see it in your average soloq survivor games. after that dev awhile they nerfed it. Nurse feels too slow paced for me now. I prefer more fast-paced blight. At least in my experience when playing nurse in soloq, she does not feel that threatening anymore. she feels a bit like nerfed spirit where people say she's super strong but I do not see her as super strong. People say same thing about spirit. Super strong character but I don't feel intimated by spirit.
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I find that a killer whose power is controlled by survivor and constantly turned off by the survivor is not a fun game design for killer. Killers want to be time efficient in their gameplay and this is anything but time efficient for them. Still, I think his teleport is pretty good and the ability to chew pallets is decent. It is just that singularity gameplay loop for killer is draining and highly repetitive. You feel like you have to work extra hard to see results. he feels like sleeper pick that people might play more over time.
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@FridayNightPizza said:
Knight isn't weak in the slightest.
he is weak to shift-w so yeah that is consider weak by killer standards. he lacks anti-shift w gameplay with his guards.
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A big reason why they want keep trapper identity in picking up traps is that they want to keep his emotional connection of being a hunter that setup traps. I think that is reason why they are not giving 8 traps in his inventory automatically. It take away the whole like RPG aspect of playing trapper away so I can see why they would not change that.
one aspect of trapper that could be improved is how he has to bow down and sit +2 seconds to setup a trap. that is way too slow in my opinion for killer gameplay. he should be able to throw traps in front of him similar to Artist birds and they could be armed in few seconds. he would have a lot more potencial use to his power at loops as he could throw traps behind or in front of him as you turn corners as he is chasing.
@jesterkind said:
Rework no, slight changes yes.
As the devs themselves pointed out in the Reddit AMA, there's a lot of value in Trapper remaining as simple and straightforward as he currently is, because he's the very first killer players have in their roster when they get the game and he's easy to pick up, mechanically speaking. Plus, there's something to be said for keeping him the way he is just as a preservation of history- though to be fair he has been changed noticeably a few times.
He definitely shouldn't get all his traps on him at the start of the match, that's a massively bad idea, but there's plenty that can be done to help him out while retaining his current identity and feel. A big one would be adjusting where his traps spawn at the start of a match, so he doesn't have to go all the way to the other side of the map to get all of his power, but they could also look at things like setting speed, trap colouration, basekit punishment for stepping in a trap while injured...
We do know he's getting a small update, at least. So, at least some of these things could be addressed sometime soonish.
I think they want trapper traps to spawn everywhere because it gives that realism that his traps are all over place and he is collecting them to lure his pray. there is certain beauty to trapper aesthetic in his gameplay that feels nice even though it is a bit superficial.
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this would make singularity would be really strong killer. they have extensively weaken EMP that it is better state then previously. EMP spam is less severe now. It is still possible to spam EMP but you are at least required to interact with the supply cases to do so. At very least, the killer get little bit of generator delay whereas before there was virtually no slowdown or drawback to utilize the mechanic against the killer. I think your idea would be excellent iri add-on for singularity. I would gladly use that as add-on instead of the current iridescent Crystal shard add-on.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462354#Comment_3462354
Number of SWF that use clock callouts is really small.
Passive bond would get even average SWF to similar level. We don't really need that with current killer power level.
average swf? i think it would put everyone including solo to swf-level. Just because your SWF does not mean you auto-win though. you still need to play survivor well.
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the pallet breaks when the survivor drops it. respect pallet->pallet breaks ->free hit.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462047#Comment_3462047
Passive bond is massive buff.
Survivors would feel way better for sure, but killers would struggle a lot.
Problem is passive bond is buff for SWF too, it's not just soloQ buff.
SWF would also get more value out of this. It would make callouts so much easier.
strong SWF already understand every map to its wireframe and they already use clock call outs to know what part of the map they are in. The amount that it would buff swf is insignificant to amount it buff solo's.
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462171#Comment_3462171
Exactly this.
The biggest advantage for SWF is by far not comms. Like sure, it helps. But much more important is, that I can rely on my teammates knowing they will not hide in corner. That someone will take protection hit/whole chase/maybe even deliberate down when a other surv is being tunneled. That I will not hit 2nd stage on hook. That there won't be 1 survivor that will be vastly weaker (a norm with current MMR and 3v1 in this game is super hard). That nobody will throw the game for challenge or hook suicide.
Comms are less then any of the points mentioned above - even though I agree comms do help.
whenever your playing killer, matches vs swf feel a lot more intense. I don't know what it is about those matches that feel so intense but it just feel different. what your describing is better gsme-sense and soloq should have same game-sense opportunity at base-kit.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/380322/is-it-just-me
So, i'll try to explain this in terms of fighting games because that is the best way i know how, but its not "just a guess". Its an "educated guess" based on conditioning.
For example, a game of street fighter, where i can throw a fireball, my opponent can jump over it and combo me, and i have an anti-air move. If i knock my opponent down, then throw a fireball, forcing them to block, then immediately throw a 2nd fireball, this is what i do. I can now do this several times in a row, i have "conditioned" them to think that, everytime they block that fireball, i'm going to throw a second one. So, maybe after 2 times of doing it, i go to do it a 3rd time. But on this 3rd time, i don't do it, but they think i'm going to, so they jump, but i didn't throw the fireball, so now i can anti-air them.
The same is true in DBD. Think about maybe pyramid head. If i'm playing PH, and i wind up my power just as a survivor is about to vault, but then cancel it. Now the survivor thinks that is what i do. Maybe the next time i do it, i don't cancel it, and i commit to using my power. Because i "conditioned" the survivor into thinking i'm going to cancel it, they just vault thinking i'll cancel, but then i don't.
Yeah, you could argue that the "first time" is just a guess, but the moves they make and the way they play can give me insight into what i think they might do based on that. Do they run early? Are they predropping pallets? Maybe they are panicking a bit, so i think they are going to just vault because they want to get to safetly. There are plenty of ways you can read your opponent and "guess" what they are going to do. But ut isn't just a blind guess, its educated based on what they do.
Even rock, paper, scissors is more than just "guessing"
spirit and slinger were like that in old dbd. survivor just said it was just flipping a coin. no skill involved.
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interesting chase perk for killer.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461537#Comment_3461537
No idea, I think it counts as a Pallet Stun so it might, I have a friend who uses Smash Hit all the time, so when they get on I can test it for you.
I think they're testing new survivor perks and new killer perks as an event. I think this is a case where killer new perks are really strong and survivor new testing perks are very weak.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461574#Comment_3461574
It wasn't no perks, but was still yellow and green and only 1 or 2, so your point stands
I think the Dwight was on tape duty and Face the Darkness helped me interrupt him when I finally got him. I honestly got pretty consistent value out of each perk.
Being able to approach while manifested may have been Rickety Pinwheel value, as well, though I mostly brought it to compendium l complement Face the Darkness.
Rickety pinwheel only works when a TV is currently on. At the start of the trial, all TV are turned off for first 30 seconds. When Sadako is in manifest, she emits a lullaby effect that is not affected by the oblivious status effect. It is ok. DBD is balanced around that level of play. I can completely understand 63% kill-rate of the killer. I mean you getting free mori's. Everything make sense.
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@Zeidoktor said:
For what it's worth I've got a vid featuring a 3k w/ hatch escape, one of which was a Condemned kill, without using Iri Tape/Ring Drawing.
I don't claim to be anything like an Onryô main or high MMR player, but you asked for a video and I can provide, so here ya go.
My build was A Nurse's Calling, Gearhead, Hex: Face the Darkness, and Sloppy Butcher with the add-ons that make Survivors hear TVs Oblivious and Blind.
The Dwight in the video got fully condemn from start to finish without you doing anything. Maybe that explains extremely high kill-rate. I wish i could just walk to people as manifested and get free hits on gens and TP to TV where survivor sits on gens. Almost nobody runs to any of pallet loops until like 8:30. Bill is only survivor on that team that semi-knows what he is doing. All the other survivor should be equipping window of opportunity. DBD is very different game depends how skilled survivor is.
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After looking at post patch screen. it makes a lot of sense when two of survivor have no perks.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461448#Comment_3461448
That's what I'm thinking, but I think a lot of things most people want already would contribute towards balancing it. Nerfing S tiers, buffing D tiers, making maps and tiles more fair, and general m1 killer buffs like u said. Definitely at least a good place to start
I agree your opinion. that direction would be good direction for dbd. for me personally, SWF is not fun to play against as killer because most of the killer are not that great. Soloq would finally have 4 perk slots of their choice. Almost every killer that is B-tier or lower could be like 1.5x their strength in base-kit and their micro gameplay could be improved a lot. there is just no reason to improve their micro gameplay because you smash weak soloq teams that stats say every killer is over-performing or whatever.
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stressful killer to play against coordinate teams.
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@Gandor said:
The nightlight annouces the perk usage rate at 4,8%. That about sums it up how "OP" the perk is. For comparison, Lithe has 24% usage rate...
nightlight has to record stats for 14 days and those stats will not be accurate because it is sample. not census. It has only been few days but the perk has decent popularity sitting at 14% usage rate. Dead hard also increased in usage rate from 9% to 10%. It is going to be interesting where DH and MFT sit in popularity. Hope usage rate has also increased from 5.6% to 10%. I wonder how this will affect adrenaline usage rate.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460387#Comment_3460387
Every killer has 1 play-style
This is just objectively not true.
those are not 5 play-styles for wraith
Yes the add-ons enhance particular parts of his kit, which means players running them will focus on predominantly using the enhanced parts of his kit to get the best value from their add-ons. It would be illogical for someone running The Beast add-on to play him as a stealth killer, whereas Coxcombed Clapper greatly enhances his stealth ability so will see a lot of use for stealthy play. These are different ways to play him, i.e. different playstyles.
I do not see them adding ring drawing or iri tape to Onryo's base-kit because there is little interest in adding a mori mechanic to the killer
You don't see them adding this because it's one of the worst ideas imaginable, nothing to do with a disinterst in a mori mechanic. These add-ons encourage slugging, a strategy which the developers have acknowledged themselves is unfun. They've even trialed a number of strategies to directly counter it.
Survivor would be outraged by the Mori.
Do you not play survivor? If so, why would you be outraged if (according to you) it's fine and fun. And if not, then I don't really think it's fair for you to speak on the behalf of survivors.
but all of those add-on some slight improvement to her kit
To call them a slight improvement is to massively overstate their usefulness. The vast majority of her add-ons are horrendous, and provide considerably less value than equivalent-rarity add-ons for most of the other roster. Why have a killer with only two add-ons that are actually decent, when you could distribute their strength and have 20 add-ons that are fun and useful?
since her kit has bad base-values on almost everything. there is little incentive to use any of them.
You're somehow staring the point in the face but still missing it. So you acknowledge that The Onryō's basekit has bad values, and her add-ons are also mostly bad with little incentive to use them, so why on earth would you not want them buffed/reworked?
Yes the add-ons enhance particular parts of his kit, which means players running them will focus on predominantly using the enhanced parts of his kit to get the best value from their add-ons.
The killer is the same regardless of what add-on you equip 99% of the time. As I said, add-on are just spice for killer.
It would be illogical for someone running The Beast add-on
you named one add-on that wraith has that changes his gameplay though I am not entirely sure why anyone would equip it.
These add-ons encourage slugging, a strategy which the developers have acknowledged themselves is unfun
Unfun is subjective opinion.
Do you not play survivor? If so, why would you be outraged if (according to you) it's fine and fun.
m1 killer. easy killer to loop. non-threaten mechanic for good players.
The vast majority of her add-ons are horrendous
functionally, the add-on are ok. they are plagued by usual dbd safe numbers that is common for killers in general. just to give an example. The remote control add-on shows you aura's whenever a survivor carries a tape after projection. aura reading is really good. nothing wrong with the add-on functionality. safe aspect of this add-on is that you have to be within 16 meters to see aura. It is like why is there a range limit for seeing aura? why is it not just global? shouldn't iri add-on be like... useful? Just dbd things I guess. Like I said, her main mechanic which is condemn mechanic to instant kill mori survivors with 0 hook-states is poorly balanced that ring drawing and iri-tape bottleneck her add-on selection. Like you physically cannot use her power to produce results without at least one of these add-on's. that is why you see those add-on a lot as survivor.
So you acknowledge that The Onryō's basekit has bad values, and her add-ons are also mostly bad with little incentive to use them, so why on earth would you not want them buffed/reworked?
Because they don't need rework. they functionally improve her kit but the base numbers are poorly balanced. there is a lot of obvious restrictions in her add-on to ensure in her add-on to limit their effectiveness. I agree they need buffs but her base-kit has bigger problems then add-on's. As you have stated, you do not enjoy going against her Mori nor do you enjoy slugging which is part of her play-style. As a result, there has been no announced plan changes to change her as survivor dislike going against her gameplay.
Of course the character will not be deleted but you can keep the character super weak. That is kinda like being deleted? Right? Your in the game but your not very popular in the game. Kinda like Twins. Deleted without being deleted. Hard to explain.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460478#Comment_3460478
Deja Vu was literally buffed to counter 3 gens temporarily lol. Is it my fault MMR is bad?
MMR is not bad. your playing at low level where 3 gens are difficult to counter and your getting teammates around your level. I am just stating that it is not killer problem. it is skill level issue. yeah I am not really sure what Deja vu buff is about but hey. at least you can do gens faster when your not in a 3 gen.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460402#Comment_3460402
You missed out the entire point of this post. A killer can have FOUR perks, one of them was Overcharge which my teammates struggle with and I don't. What am I meant to learn? Please do tell me.
individually you have nothing to learn against overcharge. your team is playing bad. you are asking for the killer to be punished for your team playing bad. that is why I said it looks like bait killer post. deja vu is not a 3 gen perk. it is standard gen-rush perk to make gen go faster.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It's not because he's unique. He's an M1 killer with extra steps. I have yet to die to a Singularity. He doesn't have map pressure if you don't push gens without an EMP in hand. Overclock is mostly trivialized by smart positioning and pre-dropping. This is a really, really weak killer if the survivors are good at the game and play smart. He's a killer who gets beaten if the survivors are capable of playing checkers for 10 minutes.
good summary of the killer. pre-drop+gen-rush. sounds like typical dbd killer experience.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460361#Comment_3460361
It doesn't matter how much changes promote way of playing.
Bubba got whole rework that helped him in chase, but you still had players who were face camping from first hook, simply because he is good at it.
exactly. these type of posts just look nerf killer threads. seems more like learn to play issue in regards to landing overcharge skill-checks.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460117#Comment_3460117
Ignoring condemn mechanic entirely
Ignoring a killer's power entirely doesn't really constitute a playstyle for them but I'll humour you.
The other aspects of her kit are meant to go on top of the already existing playstyle of condemn.
So The Onryō has a grand total of... two ways to play her? One of which involves completely ignoring her power? Colour me unimpressed. Compare this to a character like Wraith, who has a multide of viable strategies:
- You can lean into his stealth with add-ons like Coxcombed Clapper, allowing you to play as a hit and run killer.
- You can make him very powerful in a chase using Shadow Dance paired with The Serpent add-ons, allowing for a more agressive playstyle.
- You can use Windstorm and a generator defence build to boost his map pressure to exceptional levels.
- Or you can use some of his more unique add-ons like The Ghost for interesting mindgames.
That stacks up to 5 ways to play him at least (counting your playstyle of ignoring a killer's power completely). Killers should not be shoehorned into a specific style of play, because it's the only way to get results. There should be more opportunity for variety and creativity in builds.
As we going by your wording. Buffing the rest of her kit aspects would be too strong.
I've already explained what I meant by this. The more you reiterate this, the more it looks like you're intentionally misinterpreting what I'm saying.
she is already in the perfect spot that is most acceptable by the community without causing complaintsshe is already in the perfect spot that is most acceptable by the community without causing complaints
We must run in different circles of the DbD community because most of the people I've spoken to about The Onryō echo the same sentiments: she's relatively weak and has problematic add-ons.
If you don't like my suggestions that's fine! I just can't say I understand the reasonings behind your opinion though. Sorry.
Every killer has 1 play-style. those are not 5 play-styles for wraith. what is different is how you modify a single play-style with add-on's. The add-on suppose add some spice to the killer gameplay. most of the modification to add-on is some slight statistic improvement to the killer power up to the killer preference. Like windstorm add-on for wraith slightly improve his movement speed, swift hunt slightly improves his uncloak speed. sometimes add-on adds a minor effect to the power like blind warrior add-on that add mangled. Regardless of what you add to the killer for spice, the killer identity often remains the same excluding some bizarre add-on's such as Scratch Mirror Myer's and Waterlogged shoe hag.
Onryo's iri tape and ring drawing bottleneck her add-on selection because her base-kit mori is inadequate condemn build-up. this is little bit like Wraith where Wraith players would often say that windstorm was a bottleneck add-on because his cloaking felt lackluster. that is why they added purple windstorm to his base-kit and suddenly there outrage that he was suddenly over tuned as quoted by the developer in a particular update. I do not see them adding ring drawing or iri tape to Onryo's base-kit because there is little interest in adding a mori mechanic to the killer. Survivor would be outraged by the Mori.
Just like other killers Onryo has bunch of add-on that slightly modify small parts of her kit. you list a lot of them in your original post. Remote control adds aura reading to her kit. I believe purple add-on is distorated photo? I think that add-on is suppose to be anti-stealth, so more anti-stealth detection. purple telephone add-on gives hindered so it improves her chase. Not to go through entire add-on list but all of those add-on some slight improvement to her kit but since her kit has bad base-values on almost everything. there is little incentive to use any of them.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460091#Comment_3460091
I am not entirely sure what type of slowdown your expecting from this mechanic.
The slowdown that comes with forcing survivors to stop repairing a generator, retrieve a VHS Tape, run to a separate location on the map, insert the tape, and then run back to their generator. The reason this is currently ineffective at slowdown is because survivors never actually need to do it. In a game against the average Onryō, you rarely get enough Condemned stacks to warrant survivors needing to remove some. If Condemned becomes easier to apply (as per my suggestions), survivors will need to be more mindful of their status and transport Tapes when it gets too high - thus slowing the game down. An individual Tape Transport takes little time to do, but multiple survivors doing it multiple times per game adds up!
Perhaps your seeing the add-on because its only thing that is effective.
That is exactly why The Onryō needs a rework... A killer should have more than one viable playstyle. As it stands, this is the only way to consistenly guarantee Condemned kills, and requires a dedicated build and a specific playstyle of slugging. That's bad game design.
Your implying that the killer is already at perfect spot because any further improvement is as you say too strong.
Not what I implied at all. I'm saying they cannot buff any of her kit, otherwise it will make her slugging playstyle specifically too strong. If they tone down her slugging playstyle, they're then free to buff the rest of her kit, meaning it won't be the "only thing" that is effective anymore.
That is exactly why The Onryō needs a rework... A killer should have more than one viable playstyle.
There is another play-style available. It is called hooking survivors. Ignoring condemn mechanic entirely. It is no better then playing an m1 killer with no power but it does work for every killer.
I'm saying they cannot buff any of her kit, otherwise it will make her slugging playstyle specifically too strong. If they tone down her slugging playstyle, they're then free to buff the rest of her kit, meaning it won't be the "only thing" that is effective anymore.
The other aspects of her kit are meant to go on top of the already existing playstyle of condemn. As we going by your wording. Buffing the rest of her kit aspects would be too strong. that is why there has been no revisions for her. she is already in the perfect spot that is most acceptable by the community without causing complaints.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460055#Comment_3460055
"I don't understand why the add-on suddenly need a change?"
In it's current state, Ring Drawing encourages slugging survivors and completely ignoring hooks. Slugging is not fun, hurts solo queue disproportionately more than SWF, results in lower point gain for the survivors and the killer (since you don't get hooking/unhooks), and should therefore be reserved for occasionally gaining pressure - not slugging every survivor you meet for the entirety of the match. Promoting a playstyle in which you completely ignore the core gameplay mechanics is not healthy.
I play a lot of survivor too, and getting found early, downed, and left to slowly bleed out is not fun. And then to add insult to injury, as soon as you get picked up, you get hit and go down again because your solo queue teammates don't take protection hits. And then it's back to four minutes of nothing. Virtually every time I run Iridescent Videotape and Ring Drawing, someone DCs for that exact reason - and I empathise with them.
It's a widely held opinion in the community that slugging Sadako needs toned down or reworked. Many, myself included, would argue that this specific playstyle is what's holding her back from being in a better spot. They can't buff any other aspect of her kit so long as this playstyle stands, or otherwise it'd be way too strong. So she's stuck with this being one of her few viable options.
"what is the point of the add-on at that point"
The problem is you're thinking of Condemned only in terms of its lethality, and not for its potential as a slowdown mechanic. The reworked Ring Drawing would cause survivors to gain stacks when unhooking, which combined with a few good Projections would quickly cause them to rack up Condemnation. Survivors would then have to transport Tapes, providing you with built-in slowdown that'd help a killer without a chase power keep up in the game. Not to mention, that with the basekit changes I suggested, it would be easier to inflict Condemned through normal gameplay. You'd no longer have to artificially force it through add-ons, slugging, chasing backwards etc., which feels very cheap to be on the receiving end of.
Even when survivors do pick up Tapes, their corresponding TVs are often not far away.
I am not entirely sure what type of slowdown your expecting from this mechanic. You take like few second to pull out a tape out of TV and you walk to the TV. You even state in your original post that the mechanic takes little time to do. The mechanic is not slowdown. It is survival.
Virtually every time I run Iridescent Videotape and Ring Drawing, someone DCs for that exact reason - and I empathise with them.
I get disconnects without slugging with other killers. Sometimes even on first downs. The survivor community is entitled. Perhaps your seeing the add-on because its only thing that is effective. People probably read my comment long ago. They tried it and saw effectiveness of the killer. I have played against it and I do not see any issues. Fun itself is subjective as well. Losing in general is not fun for most players. Slugging is form of progressive over-time losing. A principal in multiplayer games is that when one player has fun winning. The other player has less fun from losing.
They can't buff any other aspect of her kit so long as this playstyle stands, or otherwise it'd be way too strong.
Oh, so the killer is strong. Then it must not need any changes. right? Your implying that the killer is already at perfect spot because any further improvement is as you say too strong.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459927#Comment_3459927
But what builds are you finding them running? And how often do you encounter them? I rarely see Onryōs, and when I do they're almost always running the same few add-ons and builds. It's usually either:
- Iridescent Videotape + Ring Drawing
- Tape Editing Deck + Ring Drawing
- Reiko's Watch + a full build of slowdown perks
The proposed changes certainly aren't perfect, but aim to make The Onryō a more versatile killer, with a less predictable kit. Knowing what you're up against as soon as you load in takes the fun out of the game IMO.
You're right that she can be very powerful. I don't mean to make her overbearing, in fact I think these changes would provide more avenues for interactive counterplay than there currently exists. As it stands, the most effective way to beat Onryō is to do nothing - never touch TVs and never transport Tapes. I think that's poor design personally, but I respect your opinion.
(Edited to include the rest of my comment; I accidentally sent it without writing everything).
Onepumpwilly plays iridescent tape+bloody finger nails. I remember someone posting a video on forums at one point and I commented on the forum post at one point about slugging ring drawing Sadako. at the time of the post, I was just trying to learn Sadako because everyone kept saying she sucked. she had no redeeming qualities and was the worst killer in the game. I don't understand why the add-on suddenly need a change? Your proposal of the add-on add 2 total condemn stacks for hooking. what is the point of the add-on at that point? you will kill survivors faster by hooking then you will by applying condemn.
that's one of major issues with condemn in general for Sadako. Killer powers are suppose to be boon to the killer. An advantage but sadako's condemn mechanic is not a boon. it is more like alternative way of winning that strangely enough can be worse then just normal hooking because of how slow condemn build up is.
you can apply that logic to all her powers. they give you mobility, but really cannot use it to any good degree with TV and telegraphed sounds when emerging out of a TV for ambush disregarding the long cooldown itself. you get strange invisible flickering at loops to try to mix-up the survivor but it is not really there because invisible is duration is pretty short along with her movement speed reduction when manifesting. you get stealth but it is not really stealth because of lullaby. Overall there does not seem to be much interest in improving her. only interest in detracting what little unique gameplay exists for her.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459928#Comment_3459928
by gen time variation i mean more the extremes: 90 seconds here, 30 seconds or less there, there is just too much possible variation to balance properly. The more perks and items throw that balance off in either direction, the harder it is to properly account for.
i think you need a lot of gen stacking progression to notice variation that is significant.
@Krazzik In the meantime though it just feels bad when I can find survivors and end chases quickly and still lose because that isn't enough slowdown on it's own.
OP post is more talking about how you can find survivors in 20 seconds, do 30 second chases on 7 consecutive chases where the survivor does not loop a single tile correctly and yet you get an end result of 1 kill and 3 people escaped where half team is death hooks. It just boils down to the fact that killer have bad inherent base-kit slowdown in terms of rewards. you spend more time as killer hooking survivors then survivor spends going to unhooks from the 4:1 player efficiency stand-point. previously on a recent PTB, there was an attempt to increase healing time from 16->24 seconds to increase killer's pressure but the issue with higher healing time is that healing is secondary objective. There is certain point where opportunity cost of healing is worse then doing a gen where killer no longer gains slowdown from healing and the reward you get from that is instant downs on killer instead of game-slowdown.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459916#Comment_3459916
yep. basically the only thing stopping gens from going at least moderately quickly is survivors not doing their job. The killer can and should split pressure to slow them down, but in the end its 4 players attention span vs one player's average time to down.
i think it is not variation that is bad. it is lack of reward for killer downing survivor that is bad. in fact you want variation in gen time. a bad killer that plays poorly should lose to gen-time. the issue with dbd is that you can be downing survivors lightning fast and still have close games as killer. this is especially true if you spread hooks very evenly.
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you do not counter victor by spinning. you counter victor by hold-w during pounce charge up and predicting the trajectory. learn to play issue.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459367#Comment_3459367
This can work too. I just want these perks to be usable again.
autodidact and we'll make it counter it. there are no self-heal perks that counter it because of killers complaining about circle of healing and original self-care that eventually got nerfed again in 6.1.0. I am personally fine with healing perks if they weaken sprint bursts from health-states and second chance endurence type effect to around current decisive strike level in distance. until then, they will be massive imbalance problem with killer with low mobility catch-up/no range.
if you want low investment counter for self-healing, you can use med-kit item with iri syringe. that is what most survivors use in my experience when playing killer.
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@appleas said:
https://youtu.be/hpgchXyKu68?t=1067
Posting the Sadako BL 3 vs Resilience + MFT video with timestamp. I’m sure some people will still find some reason for it being a niche scenario and totally unrepresentative of the majority of the games. Please note that I am not the creator of this video and please do not harass him.
that pallet is bloodlust 3 infinity. you do not need MFT to bloodlust 3 infinity that. that pallet is like fracture cowshed pallets. you should instantly break that pallet. with or without MFT.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I'm not sure what they have in mind to 'fix' a 3 gen from the start kind of strategy, and I'm not even sure how they could fix that issue without an overhaul to at least part of the core game mechanics.
Unfortunately, the only mechanic that currently prevents a stalemate situation is the EGC, but that obviously doesn't cover everything, including 3 gens or when the last 2 survivors do nothing but hide indefinitely.
The only solution I've heard that I even kind of like was someone suggested having an 8th generator in the basement under the stairs that only one survivor could work on, and was completely blocked by a door or something unless a stalemate was detected. So basically it only came into play if the game stalled, but not in a 'normal' game.
Even then though, what happens when the basement is also in the 3 gen? It'll just get camped with the rest of them and we're back to square 1.
Moving the unfinished gens to the edge of the map will just cause trapper and hag to have to walk across the entire map for no real reason, and mobility isn't the strong suit of a setup killer.
I suspect having a mechanic that forces the killer to leave the area in the event of a stalemate is probably what they have in mind. Like adding a switch in the basement that is only available when a stalemate scenario is detected. Have it take 90 seconds or more for the killer to activate, like a gen, so they have to commit to being away from the 3 gen, but then triggers the EGC with doors unpowered if they finish it.
I still don't like that option, because it seems ineffective at best or prone to abuse at worst, but something like that could be possible.
i think what dev's will do is make hatch spawn open after certain amount of time. that is my guess. for example, the hatch will spawn after 20 minutes of the game elapsing. All survivors can escape through hatch. If the killer closes the hatch by kicking it, the end game collapse begins. that is my guess on what will happen. don't take my word for it. I am not fortune teller.
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@uganda_calm said:
Thats not balancing, thats just flipping the coin from killers winning 3 gen to survivors winning 3 gen.
As killer you still need to have a chance to protect 3 gens and if you just put them far apart, killers like blight, nurse, dredge or others like them still would be able to hold 3 gen. Distance is not a factor for them.
it puts their power on cooldown which is significant drawback. Also Nurse after fragile wheeze got nerfed does not travel much faster then 115% m/s killer because of cooldown. She does have that purple add-on that has blink-back which is very good for 3 gens though I have never played vs nurse that used that add-on and 3 gen with it.
small map+tight gen spread is main advantage of 3 gen. remove that and 3 gen is pretty much dead.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458964#Comment_3458964
Oh right, because everyone believes they are able to do it in one patch and it wouldn't make killers trash for over a year.
they said they want to nerf 3 gens. I don't understand why they buff deja vu but do not buff potencial energy. giving 1:1 progression and remove of loss stacks would make soloq player maybe run it.
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@dbd900bach said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459057#Comment_3459057
Unfortunately the devs did account for this. The Singularity's overclock ability does not activate Hubris
that does not matter. you end up using his power in most pallet breaks but in places where you do not. you get an instant pallet break with exposed.
@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459057#Comment_3459057
If you are going into Hubris, you do not need Enduring and Spirit Fury.
Another thing you have to consider is the fact that Spirit Fury uses whenever you are stunned while in his power, effective just wasting Spirit Fury.
You have to really be careful if you run that, which is why I do not think it is needed or advised.
I am just saying it is more reliable then MYC.
Another thing you have to consider is the fact that Spirit Fury uses whenever you are stunned while in his power, effective just wasting Spirit Fury.
That is incorrect. Overclock does not consume spirit fury however it does add towards spirit fury stacks like all killer powers with base-kit pallet break. this means you can preserve spirit fury when you need it the most to proc instant down.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
While everyone has been using Hex Totem builds to make good usage of H: Haunted Grounds and H: Devour Hope, I find myself relying a bit more on other types of perks that just overall boost his gameplay.
Keep In Mind: A lot of the build and alternative perks mentioned are flexible with your playstyle, however it must be stated that Singularity/Hux is really map dependent, a lot of this perks try to cover their weak areas and work with their strengths, but if you keep trying to use your power on a map that is clearly awful for it, you are going to lose almost always regardless of the build... AKA, just play smart and youll win... it's not that hard...
Anyways, to the build...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2JE088GTOJLU/image-2023-06-19-202459956.png
Lethal Pursuer: This perk is incredibly strong with Singularity, Hux's hugest weakness is EMPs, and EMPs are not easily accessible at the beginning of the match. Best part is IF you happen to see people going directly for an EMP, you are able to directly intercept them since it is physically impossible for them to get the EMP before you are there.
Corrupt Intervention: This perk also provides a strong early game, similar to Lethal Pursuer. The idea here is to use the extra time you get from this perk to spread Infection, even if you know EMPs are going to remove all of that progress, it lets to short period where they are forced to use EMPs and waste them, effectively extending the duration of Hux's strongest part of the game.
- Alternative to Corrupt Intervention - SH: Pain Resonance: This perk provides a strong alternative to Corrupt Intervention, the idea here is to have Survivors preoccupied with repairing Generators, reducing the likelihood of them trying to grab an EMP. If you find that EMPs are still an issue with Corrupt, swap to SH:PR instead.
SH: Floods of Rage: This perk is honestly perfect with Hux's power. It provides you the right information at just the right time. Since you can normally use your Biopods to find Survivors for a chase, this perk effectively acts as a tool for chases. It will help you situate your Biopods into a prime position to get Infections on Survivors if you need it, or otherwise allow you to mindgame a loop using the information.
- Alternative to SH: Floods of Rage - BBQ: BBQ can be helpful if you rather not waste time swapping between Biopods to find Survivors, this is not really suggested for people who are more experienced with Biopod positioning, but this can work for people who are still trying to learn Hux's power, which is why I wanted to specifically point this out.
Make Your Choice: This perk has insane synergy with SH: Floods of Rage, since you can effectively know where your Exposed target is going. With Hux, this provides them an effective means of getting hooks if your power is not working. It also provides a level of consistency on maps that are awful for Hux, since your power is pointless, you have to create other means of pressure, which this perk serves to help with.
- Alternative to Make Your Choices - Rancor: This is yet another perk that you can get insane value from. Hux's Biopods allow for tracking where the Obsession is, allowing you to effectively trap the Exit Gates and create no way of escaping. I find that almost always this perk acts as a free kill with Hux.
Completely unrelated but...
Before someone replies with my low level Singularity. I must state that I have been leveling up other characters, mainly Survivors, so I have not been able to invest a lot of BP over the recent days. I do plan on waiting for the Anniversary so I can get a bunch of BP Offerings on Hux because Ive been enjoying them a lot.
i think if your leaning into exposed, I would use enduring spirit fury hubris on him. he breaks pallet quickly enough to charge enduring fury and hubris will grant you an instant down every time.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458959#Comment_3458959
At cost of 2 perks. At limited range. With quite a long setup. That can be snuffed in a single second. Or you could never be chased in it's vicinity.
The chance that the perk will do more harm (keep you off gen) then good (extend the chase) is almost guaranteed.
Like sure - even no mither can save you and win you game. But it's more likely you loose the game for it. That's why I call all of those harmful (but there's another category of survivor-team harming perks like left behind, sole survivor, etc)
unless your facing an instant down killer. you get a speed boost to almost always make it to the boon. Yes it has setup but your extending chases with said perk. dark theory is not great perk but it is not negative like no mither and self-care is.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458719#Comment_3458719
It would be kinda busted if you couldn't lose tokens.
Start of the game is safe time for survivors, everyone would simply charge this perk on 5-gens.
Then you could basically skip almost whole last gen. Last gen where it's sided towards killer.
Perk that allows you to skip this without drawback, or counterplay would be too strong.
the perk has drawbacks. you repair gens at 0.66 c/s conversion with the perk. you get double punished currently for using the perk. The perk is ok at transferring progression on a corner gen to a more centralized gen but I think the 0.66 c/s makes the perk not attractive to use.
@Gandor said:
Potential energy, self-care on it's own, no mither, dark theory. These are all the perks that actively lower your chance to survive the trial if u take them.
Perks should help those, that take them. At least these 4 help killer more then survivors...
dark theory+made for this is 5% speed. wasn't one of your suggestions for dark theory to buff it to 4%? you can technically buff it to 5%.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458795#Comment_3458795
I see what you mean but really I miss the point where Clown would feel much different than how he used to feel. It's still more or less the same killer. The invigoration addons aren't particularly good besides that one purple (I believe) but as I said they didn't remove any of his mechanics. Instead they introduced a new one, that believe it or not can really make a difference. Removing that would only weaken him significantly when he already has issues, so I would be against it.
I wasn't around to see Clown's old addons, so I'll have to take your word for it that they felt better but there still are some nice addons. Especially some of his green and purple addons are quite nice.
I can remember only 3 of his add-on's. solvent jug was not +1 sec invigoration. it was apply 30 second of exhaustion. Cigar box was not 16 meter of aura reading when using antidote. It was increase pink gas duration on the floor, increased blurred vision on pink gas and increased hindered duration. I do not remember what garnish kit did but I remember it increased area of effect of his pink bottle. I remember running garnish kit+chloroform and having this giant 10+ meter pink cloud that would hindered the survivor for 5-6 seconds as survivor walked through. Either10% was green add-on that increased hindered duration. it is replaced by that weird add-on that increases the size of yellow cloud. I think his new add-on are superior but I wish his yellow gas had less delay.
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@Gandor said:
EMP's can't be limited. The power is too strong and it would be too easy to 3gen again like on skull merchant.
Let's see what happens when hotfix comes and there will be 1 less box, printing will be slower and there will be hindered for using EMP
i find it funny to think that you need item to beat the killer power. I do not think that killer should have items to counter killer power for free. Legion is only killer where I think an item to counter his power might be smart design choice. Wesker infection has an item to counter the power because of 8% hindered however if he did not have hindered, he would not need an item either. I do not know why singularity has it or nemesis has the mechanic.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457630#Comment_3457630
Those numbers are misleading. That's just EMP generation, it assumes literally zero travel time and that EMPs are used immediately on pick-up. As dire as the EMP situation is right now, it isn't that bad.
I expect my opponent to know how to optimize the mechanic.
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@uganda_calm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457561#Comment_3457561
sorry, i miss read your first post, i thought you meant the teleport.
But still, as a good Singularity you have 2 biopods aiming in from 2 different angels, so if they use a EMP to get rid of the slipstream i just infect them again within 10 seconds.
Edit: you dont even need to HAVE two, you can just shoot a second one
Placing two pod makes no difference because EMP is AoE and disables both of them.
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457548#Comment_3457548
Up to and after this post, Seraphor had been talking about using the biopods to teleport, not just to mark.
Assuming we're talking just about applying the mark in chase and the survivor immediately hitting it with an EMP, though, that's why it's relevant that you can replace the biopod straight away. If you're being aggressive and using the manual teleport, you do lose time and efficiency from the EMP - which you're meant to, that's his counter - but your power is not disabled or rendered impotent by it. You have to adjust your approach.
The problem isn't that the EMP can take away the infection, that's what it's supposed to do. The problem is how easily survivors can gain multiple EMPs in the same chase, and how little investment they take to use- both things the upcoming changes should, ostensibly, be looking at.
I am not heavily convinced. current auto-emp recharge is 90/5. You have to infect survivors every 18 seconds to outpace the EMP boxes. In the hotfix, auto-emp recharge will be 100/4. You need infect survivors every 25 second to outpace automatic EMP's.
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@uganda_calm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457548#Comment_3457548
when you hover over a survivor with camera and lock on. the survivor gains a green marker indicating that singularity is firing at you.
yes, but singularity can also teleport without the cam, so you get no warning before he teleports.
um no? you can only teleport without the cam when the survivor is infected. You must use camera to infect the survivor but as I explained, you can look at green lock-on and preemptively hold EMP fully charged so as soon as you shoot and infect the survivor. the infection is instantly disabled. you cannot teleport with his arm when survivor is cleansed from infection.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457420#Comment_3457420
It is worth mentioning that the 3.5 seconds thing only applies if you're trying to teleport from the biopod itself, not if you're using the gun to teleport mid-chase. That's where Singularity shines, and based on the changes they're making, I imagine it's what the devs want him to be doing most of the time.
Like I said in my response, I don't think the Singularity is a setup killer, he's a chase killer.
i think you are misunderstanding seraphor's post. when you hover over a survivor with camera and lock on. the survivor gains a green marker indicating that singularity is firing at you. Seraphor's is saying that the survivor can pre-charge the EMP and disable it as soon as it hits you. you can remove his infection in 0.1 second on application. It does not matter how fast you apply it.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456567#Comment_3456567
MFT works really well with Dead Hard.
At point you get exhausted, you are supposed to be dead anyway. All that time before it, you can get value from MFT.
I agree. I am using it with DH. Your still using MFT for first part of the chase and DH when possible.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456382#Comment_3456382
Clown was better for a lot of us the way he was compared to the way he is now. Don't matter how good something is if we don't like using it to begin with. That's how I feel about antidote bottles, sure they can be interesting, but I don't use them and I addons I used all the time and were comfortable with have turned into antidote addons. It killed my entire drive to play clown because I was fine with how he was.
if you used yellow reload add-on clown and pinky finger before rework, clown is worse now then he was before the rework. so yes, they nerfed clown. I wish they made yellow bottles usable vs good players and just not just very very bad survivor players.
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#1 killer in the game. that is my thoughts on the killer.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456645#Comment_3456645
Killers have pretty good perks atm.
Corrupt, Pop, PR, Deadlock, DMS, No Way Out, Devour Hope etc.
And i don't think survivor base-kit is that strong anymore. They changed meta to be needed more altruism which is bad for solo survivors.
killer perks are pretty weak jokes. None of these perks when I play survivor feel oppressive to play against. Some of these perk are pretty bad too like 30 second DMS? Most of the killer cast cannot even walk to the gen to block it. I do not understand why killer uses it. It is likely because they have nothing better to use. its same for all other perk listed. there is just nothing left for killer to use.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456570#Comment_3456570
Name one good perk after Mikaela chapter. Because CoH was the only meta perk from newest chapters. After her, non of survivors brought any meta perk until we got Gabriel.
People just hates when survivors gets one good perk.
And no, MfT is not even close to og MoM. You are just overacting.
problem is not good perks. it is that survivor base-kit too strong for any good perks. with how survivor base-kit power-level is, survivor need to be itemless and perkless for majority of killer cast but being perkless is not fun for the survivor. that is why their perks are bad.
the funny part is that killer who need perks have crap perks.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456567#Comment_3456567
You're completely ignoring what I said.
You can absolutely benefit from Made For This and other exhaustion perks at the same time. It's very simple:
- Get into chase as normal.
- Run the killer as much as you can until injured.
- Continue running until the killer is getting close to hitting you. Then activate your exhaustion perk of choice. E.g Lithe, Balanced Landing, Smash Hit or Dead Hard.
The longer you can keep running the more value Made For This gives you. And when that value runs out you switch to a different perk to extend the chase and capitalize on the extra distance that Made For This gave you.
You get the pros of both perks without any cons.
your completely missing my point. you are ignoring what I am talking about.
You can absolutely benefit from Made For This and other exhaustion perks at the same time.
Let me explain this in more simple terms. Let us suppose I enter the match as survivor with single perk. Made for this. I get injured and I benefit from this perk. I am only benefiting from this single perk that I equipped. This makes sense as I only have one perk equipped.
Suppose I enter the match with 2 perks. Balance landing and Made for this for example. I get injured and I benefit from this perk. I have not USED balance landing in the match. I have two perks equipped but I have only used 1 PERK in the match. when I use balance landing, I have used my second perk. My first perk made for this becomes disabled as soon as I use the second perk.
There is never a point where I am benefiting from Made for this and other exhaustion perk at the same time. I am using one perk at the start and then I am using a second perk later on. Your not using two perks at the same time. your using one perk at the start and then your using another perk later on which disables first perk. You realize that if I do not trigger exhaustion, It is same as if I have one perk equipped. There is no CONNECTION between using MFT and activating the exhaustion perk. They are two separate perks that trigger at different times and using one disables other.
Your also assuming that I want to wait to use my exhaustion perk. I want to use my exhaustion perk as soon as possible. Why I want to wait to gain guaranteed chase extension with Lithe. I want to use first chance I get to use it. Heck, If I could use Dead hard while healthy, I would use dead hard while healthy to block a hit but of course this is not allowed.