DemonDaddy
DemonDaddy
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The new hook mechanic is a loss for both sides. I stopped using hooks a long time ago as killer but now I find them just as bad when playing survivor. Every save has been free and the hook just becomes a deadzone with no interactions anymore.
No danger, no engaugement, no fun, just a boring freebee action.
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While I dont like this killer or play her, I also dont see anything wrong with her.
What I do see that causes the most issues in my survivor games are teammates that continually try to brute force success with the same ineffective tactics. Ive lost count of the number of survivors that try to run and loop her.
I know not many would agree with this point of view but there are killers in this game that encourage stealth play to avoid the clear advantage they have in chase.
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@Hunkulese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560340#Comment_3560340
Sounds like someone who's only gone against bad Sadakos. Most of the time, there aren't going to be more than one or two TVs powered, and you're going to have to cross the map to deposit that tape.
Not going to claim anything about my opponents skill levels. Just saying that I grab a tape at the start and anything beyond that point is a result of my performance and the killers. I just find that I'm rarely required to grab more than one or two tapes before a match is finished; be that gens are done or Im trying not to join my dead teammates.
@ArthurVeloso said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560340#Comment_3560340
Midgama you have to make a choice between grabbing a tape or to commit a gen. It is a very risky move, but it may pay off if done right. Also, Sadako may turn the nearby tvs off, and you don’t have much information where to get a tape from. As a result, you may take some time to get in the other side of the map just to get a tape, what may increase your condemn if she is spamming teleporting and hit and running.
I understand and agree with your point, but sometimes the game goes to different directions and we have to improvise.
if you have any thing to add that is supportive fill to the discussion, please, share it with us.
Well for constructive advice Id say try running a tracking perk to gauge where the killer is. Since tvs are usually fairly close to gens, I find that areas opposite of the killers location will have tvs with the best chance of being active. Knowing which location the killer was most recently also informs which tvs are most likely currently useless.
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@betelgeuseyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560338#Comment_3560338
Not really. You can't negate regression. The killer is going to make a gen regress, be it the last one you're trying to finish, in which case survivors are going to give up on that gen and try get another gen started, or multiple ones you've left unfinished on the map. Cutting the map is a given. Obviously that is the best strategy (although not necessarily always feasible).
Depends on the regression perks, the strong one have requirements and the weak ones have to build up over time. Usually a simple gen tap can halt the regression and good survivors can make things like pop rarely useable. Regression gets beaten out by basekit progression, it takes mistakes and misplays by survivors to tilt gens in the killers favor.
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Why is condemned that high? Grab a tape 1st thing and you can ignore the build up.
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@betelgeuseyes said:
Complete a gen in the first couple of minutes, now the map gets smaller and easier for killers to find you. Now killer is under pressure to kill. Keep doing this and you are likely to three gen yourself if you aren't sacrificed already.
Survivors should be getting at least five gens to roughly 60% before finally attempting to finish them and powering the gates.
This makes it much more difficult for killer to patrol gens.
The best regression perks activate through the killers winning chase, which is why doing gens quick is the best option to negate regression. Where this strategy fails is survivors not doing the first 3 gens to cut the map and make patrolling far more difficult.
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I see zero reason the killer cant patrol in proximity, the hooked survivor failed and now becomes bait to aid the killer in drawing other into the open.
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@kadebaaade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559490#Comment_3559490
If a killer managed to kill the other two people and then down one of the last two, then it’s safe to say that it’ll be difficult to pull this off. I’m so confused why you’re defending this so hard as if this situation is bearable and easy to survive. I wouldn’t be bringing this topic up if there was a simple way to avoid this from happening
Im not trying to claim its easy, but it is possible and highly rewarding. The idea that its hopeless is where I believe the unbearable aspect begins, if someone thinks theres no chance then any time spent will appear pointless and a waste.
I defend it because those tense moment where a clutch save flips the outcome are one of the reasons this game has kept my attention over ther years.
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@Hex_Llama said:
I had this back to back. The Wraith runs Sloppy Butcher, Knockout and two other perks. They run around the map slugging people. It takes a long time to find the slugs with Knockout and a long time to heal from injured.
In the first match, I focused on picking people up, but then nobody was on the gens and it was just a war of attrition until we bled out.
In the second match, I focused on gens, but then everyone was down and the people who were up were always injured. We made more gen progress before we died, but the match was over sooner.
What's the correct thing to do?
Since this is how I usually play my Wraith the best advice I can give you is as far as priorities altruism comes first then generators.
While you can't control how quickly teammates are downed, personally you need to maintain awareness so that wraith can't get a Chase with minimal distance on you and try to utilize whatever possible to maximize the amount of time they have to focus on you. I know that if I'm spending too much time on One Survivor with this playstyle I either have to get the down soon or drop Chase with the only benefit of spending that time being whatever pallets were wasted.
I find the most effective survivors are the ones that make themselves difficult to find but immediately go for the pickup of teammates; minimizing the benefits of the slug. The best advantage with this build are survivors that ignore teammates long enough to get multiple downs before leaving a gen.
Team healing while the wraith is busy elsewhere is the best option to counter sloppy. Can also try to keep an idea of which direction teammates run off to for an idea of where they may be downed to cut search times.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Not caring and just not playing I guess.
This Wraith does not want you to have fun, he uses this Build to make it miserable for the other side, not to win. (Sad things to do, queueing up to just ruin the experience for others)
So you are probably better off with doing something else while this "game" is going on.
Nope, atleast thats not the reason I run it
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
There's not much you can do against Knockout in solo queue. It's a badly designed perk that needs to change
Completely disagree
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@kadebaaade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559419#Comment_3559419
I mentioned in the comment above that they could just add in the option if there’s two people alive. Altruism doesn’t change anything if they killer is proxy camping the downed person while one other person is alive
Altruism is always a factor, the killer in proximity doesnt negate a teammates ability to pickup. With the right timing, even if it results in a chase, both survivors have a chance to escape chase. Add in some perks and the odds increase.
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Too many safety nets make survivor boring
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@kadebaaade said:
One of the most annoying things is when a game is held hostage because a killer will purposely leave someone down while looking for the last person so they can get all 4 kills. I’ve had games last 10 min longer than they have to if me and the other person actually try to pick each other up. No game is that serious and I feel like there should be an option to just give up while down so this doesn’t happen.
Its the fault of bad team altruism if your left slugged for long periods of time. The killer is actively participating by hunting down and chasing survivors left standing. It's on the survivors who have not been downed to avoid contact and attention to pick up their teammates quickly.
I dont think we need 1st hook suicides and definitely dont need a bleedout quitter option.
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Start with 2 and then +1 for every survivor killed
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@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558096#Comment_3558096
it was mentioned many times in the discussion that the problem is how well a hit and run wraith or spirit renders the game almost unwinnable for soloq players. There is just too much chaos to expect altruistic perks or level headed decision as when to heal and when not to.
I am not saying the perk is Overpowered. However iam saying that it is overtuned and give too much for little effort. at the very least the hemorrhage status effect need to be looked into then the perk woudnt be so problematic. ( i like Soloq because i find swf with good players is kind of boring and defeats the purpose... just like running 3 slowdown perks on blight with alc ring where is the fun in that)
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558227#Comment_3558227
you havent had the pretty common hit and run wraith that refuses to chase unless he catche you off guard injured on gen because u cant get healead. or Spirit with sloppy and 3 gen slow down perks continiously ending chases fast while survivors can barely heal in time to keep up or do any gens ? How about the tunneling wesker that abuse 8% hindered off the unhook and sloppy slow heal time while running 3 gen slow down perks ?
i honestly how some people cant see the glaring issue with how overtunedsloppy can be and how Easley it is to abuse. Let me just say that sloppy was strong before the healing nerfs. now its just overkill.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558395#Comment_3558395
i liek your level headed opinion, but if sloppy loses the hemorrhage status effect tomorrow or have it slow down drastically. then perk is fine even against soloq. as many tweaks the game needs this is an easy one to fix and its frustrating to go against in pubs.
FYI: i comeback to the same point after reading the opinions shared in this discussion, that damn hemorrhage status effect is too fast to be fair with current healing speed
You stated it yourself that the wraith doesnt chase and requires a sneak attack. Ive played against this and as, its on the survivor to be vigilant. Its not op, just an advantage that the killer has to earn and pressure survivors to maintain.
Im not blind to the advantages killers can create with the perk, I just dont see it as an obstacle that cant be overcome. Ive had both wins and losses against all of the killers mentioned, there are many factors why survivors lose and pinning it solely on the killer lacks personal accountability.
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Its fast tracking to boring and predictable.
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@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557747#Comment_3557747
@DemonDaddy i think @TJTHEBEAST2299@tjt85 summarized it my soloq experience similarly to what he goes through and what has been talked soo far in this discussion. it punishes healing together heavily because its risky slow and healing other is just not a perk you would expect a soloq teammate to bring it. ive been running boon / botany well make it for a while. i can only run so much that i get tired especially with the horrible decision making from my teammates usually deciding to heal under hook or run away from me for 2 hours because they scared until they stop to heal only to get interrupted anyway.
defitnly needs a tweak and the best solution i saw on the discussion so far. is tone down the hemorrhage status effect then healing too slow woudnt matter because you can kind of salvage some of it.
its crazy that the only good use of a medkit is a syringe and one heal max for others cuz you cant heal yourself against sloppy if u get interrupted for 1 sec.
I just dont see such a dramatic impact from this in my games. Im not running any perks for healing and the effects hasnt pressured me to make any changes to my loadout.
If I see the perk then its pretty common for the team to heal each other as solo method are less effective. Bad teammates make everything worse but I dont see the perk as the problem in the situation.
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There is nothing wrong with killers slugging. The only issue is a lack of team altruism which results from players not the mechanic itself. It is a state which results from the individual survivor's mistake and failure to escape during a chase.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557165#Comment_3557165
When you make something harder to do, people likely want to do it less. Encourage is to make it easier so people do it more.
Not sure your right with that definition, but teamwork makes it easier and faster, so I would say that is both encouraging team altruism and an incentive to work together over trying to slowly solo heal.
Yeah the perk makes healing slower but is more effectively countered by teamwork.
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@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557165#Comment_3557165
it encourages my soloq temmates to give up on hook and fast vault lockes untildeath when they see wraith or spirit running this hit and run.
That says more about the entitled nature of those players than an issue with the perk. Infinite healing isnt something I find necessary and the fact that sloppy slightly slows it down hasnt ruined my solo games.
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Not that bad, it encourages team altruism which is something even solos should focus on.
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Still something I'll never use
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We are losing a situation which encourages teamwork, requires enviromental awarness and analysis, tactical advantages and drawbacks, and a heavier sense of consequence than a single hook state for mistakes leading to the hook.
I see this as more of a loss for my survivor games than one for killers that use the tactic.
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@caipt said:
camping is literally getting removed next patch, take your W.
I consider this an L in the long run
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One of the reasons I like slugging; they can dc or play the match out with zero option of suicide. When I played with hooks it always bothered me when someone would suicide on 1st hook and screw everyone over for entitled reasons like the killer, map, or a rough start.
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Good survivors can easily punish killers that spread their attention out. Focusing on 2 survivors is the most practical option that works on a wide range of player skill. There is no accurate way to tell what kind of team its going to be unless someone is making ridiculous level mistake right away.
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Knockout
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@CS1_6 said:
Anti hook camping is delivered greatly by the developers. Soon 3 gen will be history too! Hope anti slugging and anti tunneling comes too in the future to make survivors have fun playing dbd again.🥳🥳🥳🥳
Sure, make the game boring for both sides. Survivor wont even be fun after that.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555335#Comment_3555335
You're still wrong that it's in the survivors favor, and my initial response still holds.
The survivor response to pre-rework sadako was literally 'just ignore her power all game'. Now survivors are forced to take time away from gens, saves, heals, or anything else to shuttle around mandatory tapes several times per game. There's no world where that's 'leans in the survivors favor' by any measure.
The other two examples, that you voluntarily chose, are literally against game rules. The survivors only real choice in those games are give up and go next, which isn't even game play, it's just the meta game of playing against a killer intentionally holding games hostage.
What 2 examples? And what rule? I stated one strategy which has worked for me every time. Takes less then 30s to locate a tv and grab my tape, after that its on to a standard game. Compared to the survivors that let the status build before getting a tape Im not losing any crucial time.
Yes I agree that the old version of her could easily be ignored, though I find her just as easily countered now.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554908#Comment_3554908
The rework, at minimum, did exactly what killers requested about her kit: survivors are forced to interact with the tapes.
Before the rework, the ideal survivor gameplay was to ignore the TV's in nearly every scenario. The only exception was to disable a TV near a hooked survivor to prevent an instant tunnel, or in rare cases actually clear your condemn stacks.
Now survivors basically are forced to grab a tape as soon as possible or are punished for ignoring it.
It was a killer request to make the tapes actually matter, and it's been a long standing killer request to give survivors a 'second objective', which interacting with the TV's does as well.
Calling the sadako rework a 'survivor request' is completely backwards, at best. If she was such a 'weak m1 killer', who you could literally ignore her power, isn't that the exact type of killer people claim survivors 'want to face for easy matches'? This is just blaming survivors for, I don't even know what at this point. Sadako is arguably easier to use and more effective post rework.
Im not claiming who requested it, just that the counterplay heavily leans in survivor favor. Its not much of a secondary objective when I grab it once at the start of a match and essentially ignore her power from then on.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Killers have been screaming for a rework for the 'weak m1 killer' sadako nearly since her release. Now that you're practically guaranteed a condemn kill with the rework, it's somehow survivors doing? C'mon.
The other two are, in the devs own words, not intended gameplay and holding games hostage. So yeah, 3 genning as hard as possible for an hour without progressing the game deserves a game ban, flat out.
Condemned is a joke, I cant take anyone that dies to this seriously. Not in any version have I reached the mori state against her. The rework only made counterplay easier.
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Try harder
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554360#Comment_3554360
Singularity doesn't work if you treat the cameras like you're playing FNAF and surveillance is his strength. You need to use the pods in chase. Place a couple of cameras in high traffic areas so you can mark or teleport to people who run through them, and survivors usually won't try to disable those.
Any pod you put next to a gen is worthless aside from taking a peek through to see if they're working on it and forcing them to use an EMP on it to make it so you can't teleport through it.
Just my point, if Im in chase there isnt much need for the pods to begin with. Id find it difficult to locate a survivor that isnt holding an emp.
Ive just got no interest in the way this killer plays and maybe its just a lack of understanding but I dont find him particularly difficult to face and fairly easy to negate the power.
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I gave up with this killer, every game was spent with pods out of commision. If survivors were in view an emp had already disabled the pod. The only use I got out of the power was by directly shooting survivors.
Its not just playing as the killer though, I dont have any worries playing against this killer aside from teammates creating bad situations.
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4 survivors getting slugged is a result of bad altruism as well as several failures on an individual level. Maybe the devs should have added the instant mori for downing the full team, at least then the complaint of 4k bleedout would be mute.
If some survivors require safety nets/bailouts for every action killers can use against the more skilled playerbase; then they might as well request an auto play button so failures can be entirely blamed on bots with no personal accountability.
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At that point I call the game dead and Im out for good. There would be little to no interest in play either side for me.
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Doors need to vary in distance to account for the various killers. Its entirely rng with door placement and the killers ability to monitor them, which is about as fair as it can be without punishing some of the roster in favor of survivors.
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I dont touch gens unless im running a perk to benefit from it, I prefer to use altruism to slow gen speeds.
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Survivors are never not a target. The priority of which to focus on may change, but there should be no expectation of mercy regardless of the situation.
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I look forward to the slugging, its more fun for me in both roles. Good altruism will allow for more chances then hook play.
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I dont think its harsh enough. I want the system to heavily discourage the appearance of bots that enter games.
I get people may have connections issue, but I would check if its fixable on my end after the 1st dc or play something offline if I know the problem will repeat.
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I wouldnt call it killer sided when a chunk of the percentage is just player incompetence. Bad plays may balance the overall # but doesnt reflect gameplay/mechanical balance.
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Have never been condemned, grab a tape early and hold it, I rather risk a chase holding the tape then let her build up an instant kill.
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Im picturing, fix 1 widow loop and +10 pallets
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Hexes are entirely a gamble when playing killer. I havent seen a hex build yet that I cant counter as survivor or requires me to run certain perks to limit their effectiveness.
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So no more shack loop, sounds good.
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Not interested
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Depends on how they use stealth for me. If its a teammate hiding in a bush all game then that person is getting no assistance from me. Active stealth where they are contributing is fine both when playing survivor and killer.
Stealth survivor is my playstyle and as killer I want the survivors to be hesitant to get my attention. Its least enjoyable for me when survivors are cocky about knowing they can safely predrop every pallet to the next.
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Definitely more scary than an m1 killer in chase.