Crowman
Crowman
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@BenOfMilam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3115149#Comment_3115149
You don't need perks to win chases. Seriously, you don't. Most killers have powers that are strong enough that they don't really need any help in chase, to the point that there really isn't a big trade off for those killers to run all slowdown perks or even no perks at all. Weaker killers want things like Bamboozle or Enduring + Spirit Fury to deal with difficult loops, so the only time using a chase perk instead of a slowdown perk is a good choice in terms of cost-effectiveness if you're playing an M1 killer like Wraith or Ghost Face.
You can't counter Jolt if you're the one on the gen, or if the survivor getting chased is getting zoned out and forced to loop near the gen or take a down when they otherwise could loop the killer for 30 additional seconds (not to mention 32m is a decently large range, although it shouldn't be reduced since it already can be hard to activate on certain maps).
You can't counter Eruption unless you have perfect comms and teammates that actually listen, which 99% of players don't have.
You can't counter Pain Res without body blocking or sabo, which is generally not even a good play in the first place since it can give the killer free snowball.
DMS is reasonably counterable, but there's nothing stopping the killer from just forcing you off once they have someone on hook.
Prove Thyself is not a counter to gen regression. Sure, you can do gens a whopping 6 seconds faster than you could without it, but there's actually nothing stopping the gen from getting nuked from orbit by regression perks while two guys are working on it.
I pretty much only play swf if I am playing survivor. What if I want to play solo queue, though? Should I just go ######### myself instead?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3115160#Comment_3115160
If a killer is kicking gens in the middle of a chase, they've got bigger issues than trying to get their Eruption proc.
True, Jolt only works on killers that rely on M1. Which is, what, over half the killers in the game?
Scourge hooks are indeed pretty hit or miss, but when they hit, and hit, and hit and there's literally nothing you can do because you're not a precognitive psychic and brought sabo and also happened in the right place at the right time when you should actually just be doing gens (then they just hook him on the other scourge hook close by)... doesn't feel good to play against.
The reason why I am so against stacking regression perks is because it makes matches that would take 5 minutes into matches that take 15 to 20 minutes. Especially on killers with built in slowdown like Legion, Pinhead, and Pig. Not really that fun or enjoyable to slowly lose to a frosty eye Wraith that is terrible in chase, but is winning because the match has taken so long that there are no more pallets on the map.
If the wraith is bad in chase and the regression perks in question require the killer to win chases. Then your team not finishing the gens is not due to these regression perks as a killer taking too long to finish chases should see multiple gens pop before he can even get value from any of those regression perks.
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Dragon's Grip just needs to not go on cooldown if it doesn't expose a survivor like how Blast Mine doesn't disable itself until a killer actually gets hit by it.
Oppression just needs to have a lower CD. 80 seconds is too long for what it does.
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Rookie Spirit suffers from a couple of things.
First it's not active at the start of the trail. While hitting 3 skill checks isn't a hard task, sometimes the game just doesn't want to give you 3 skill checks.
Second just because you can see a gen is regressing on the other side of the map, doesn't mean you can actually do something about it.
The perk is okay, like most gen aura perks. It can be useful keeping track of which gens were being worked on and are regressing, but often you just can't do anything about the information. If I'm getting chased, it doesn't matter if I see a gen regressing. If I'm working on a gen on the otherside of the map, there's not much reason for me to go the otherside of the map to stop a gen from regressing when I could just finish the gen I'm currently on.
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Eruption requires the killer to have kicked that generator. Which even with the faster kick, can still put you behind in a chase as you need to down a survivor to get the Eruption po. And I have had games where I try to go for Eruption value only to have a gen I kicked finished before I got my down. I would say the 25 second incapitation effect tied to Eruption is the problematic part of this perk not the regression.
Jolt requires you to down a survivor near a gen which is easier on some maps than others. Like good luck hitting more than 1 gen on Red Forest. Jolt also only works on M1 downs so a lot of killer who primary use their power cannot get value out of this perk.
Then Pain Res requires hooking a survivor on the right hook. Which scourge hooks are really hit or miss as sometimes you get great spread of scourge hooks. Sometimes they are all on the other side of the map. Maps with multiple floors also make scourge hooks a pain to pull off at times. Though Pain Res is likely a bit overtuned atm and I wouldn't mind seeing it nerfed.
I don't really see regression stacking perks to be an issue as many of the regression perks require specific set up from the killer that can be out of their own control at times. Not to mention the examples you picked from require the killer to down survivors in order to apply regression on gens.
The only thing that might need to be looked at is Overcharge and Call of Brine stacking, because being able to stack multiple increased base regression got Overcharge's buff nerfed before going live.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3114674#Comment_3114674
Here's the difference between this and Old Object.
You could use Old Object and still... do everything. You were a useful teammate capable of progressing the game.
This scenario has them completely down a teammate since the MoM user can't perform a conspicuous action. Even with wallhacks a 3v1 is still a 3v1
Also Old Object was active at the start of the game.
Object with Pre-6.1.0 MoM was also more useful than this since the aura reading took effect after the endurance effect if you could heal up. So you would have tanked a hit for a teammate and than be able to watch the killer while doing gens.
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I think the bug is a little much. I don't really need teammates gen tapping just to get 50 survival each. And btw, why is it only 50 survival? For something that requires endurance to proc and basekit is only 5 second, 50 survival is really cheap for something not easy to pull off without specific perks.
I think it's fine if the score event pop ups anytime you interact with anything after being unhook regardless of how long it's been. It should also be more than 50. The devs also need to overhaul scoring anyways since they raised the cap without necessarily considering that it can be difficult to cap certain score events as it is.
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Oh no killers got a patch that gave them some buffs after seeing a bunch of consecutive patches that nerfed specific killers. Really coddling the killers.
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I was accused of hacking for moring someone as Pyramid Head just because I didn't use a mori offering.
I told them to read the power but they didn't believe me.
Wasn't the first time I was accused of hacking by someone not reading a power, but that is the one I remember most.
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I've gotten pretty good at the change Dead Hard. I would say about 90% of my Dead Hard's block a hit right now. Sometimes latency messes me up.
The perk isn't dead, just requires more skill than it did.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112854#Comment_3112854
or one survivor takes plunderers and ace in the hole and turns each chest around the map into a portable selfcare station that can be taken with you, any survivor can take, and the others dont even need any of the perks involved.
We're talking about Pharmacy. Pharmacy pre 6.1.0 gave a single guarantee 16 charge med-kit which is only enough for 1 heal.
I've ran a Plunderers, Ace In The Hole, Appraisal, and Pharmacy build before 6.1.0 patch and your first chest is a green med-kit than everything else is up to chance. And Ace In The Hole can backfire since Abdominal Dressing Addon exists and you can end up with a med-kit that doesn't even provide a full heal.
Even if Pharmacy was changed to always provide a green med-kit on chest opening regardless of health state, you are running around the map opening chests to get 3 single heal med-kits. You can add more chests with an offering, but at least by yourself that's 5 single use heal med-kits and you've ran around the map opening every single chest. Which is hardly an issue imo.
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Did you really expect Hooked On You to be a serious dating sim? I expected from the start that it would be very tongue-in-cheek.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/339132/devs-i-dont-think-pharmacy-needed-a-nerf
Why should it be allowed to be proactive when it basically guarantees tons of free healing for the team? Just run CoH at that point.
Oh no the survivor can get 1 free heal with pharmacy by being able to open a chest at the start of the game.
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You know, if pain res and merciless storm was causing issues, then surge should be changed to knock people off gens because you can in theory do the same thing with surge.
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@TheGrimQueefer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112382#Comment_3112382
You assume I'm in a SWF. Such a killer thing to do.
Where did I mention SWF?
I play mostly solo survivor when I play survivor and I still saw a lot of PTs before 6.1.0.
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@TheGrimQueefer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112186#Comment_3112186
Stop talking nonsense.
Nobody had space for Prove Thyself because they were running DS, BT, DH & COH.
I mostly certainly saw Prove Thyself a non insignificant amount of time. You can sub CoH for PT, because you don't need 4 CoHs.
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@Gorgonia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112219#Comment_3112219
How is PT good in a game where you're alone and people won't stick around to repair gens with you? If only it showed the aura of your gen so other could know then yes, it would be really good
Prove Thyself gives other survivors a buff icon indicating you have it and you can choose to work on a gen with someone else is working on. Prove Thyself really shines at getting a key gen done quickly that could otherwise be hard to finish.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110364#Comment_3110364
Because survivors want to enjoy the game as well.
Why should the killer be entitled to a free down just because he hooked the survivor in the basement?
on the flip side
Killers want to enjoy the game as well. Why should survivors be entitled to a guaranteed hook save because the survivor was in the basement?
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@AvocadoPablo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112186#Comment_3112186
Well it's a great thing we have statistics for these things and I can factually say Prove Thyself is nearly twice as popular now as it was before the killer buff patch.
Try again.
Okay and?
Prove Thyself was being ran enough before that people were complaining about it being too good. A bunch of perk nerfs happened and now a perk that was already considered good is being ran more.
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@AvocadoPablo said:
The killers started it. You'll notice you didn't see survivors spamming Prove Thyself UNTIL killers started spamming slow downs + benefitted from 10 seconds to each generator, recovery from hits quicker, etc.
Survivors were told to adapt. So we did. Deal with it.
If you really believe that survivors weren't running prove thyselves or toolboxes before slowdown became killer meta, then you are really blinded by your own bias.
Killer has always been an uphill battle and trying to control gens and get hooks. Survivors have had many nerfs towards repairing gens (old toolboxes, old bnp, and now time to repair).
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A full revert should not happen. I don't need matches that result in survivors three genning themselves, letting someone die and they get a 3 man escape.
That said I would not be against hatch spawning sometime after all gens being done.
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If maps were less safe overall, there could be a point to reducing gen speeds. But as it stands with many maps containing multiple safe tiles that sometimes can be chained together, 90 seconds gens is needed so the killer actually has time to build up pressure.
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If your teammates wanted to avoid BBQ, they can run distortions themselves or hide in a locker. There's not really a good reason for distortion to cover your teammates.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109479#Comment_3109479
I’ve played with DMS + PR once as Spirit, and never again. The game felt so damn easy that I couldn’t take it. In no way is DMS a bad perk.
DMS is in a similar situation as Spirit Fury. It's good when combined with a perk that really complements it, but rather weak just by itself.
There's a few killers who can get value from DMS without a perk like PR such as Pinhead's chain hunt or Doctor's static blast, but I would certainly say on it's own DMS is on the weak side.
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You could do this before the change. The difference being it was more set up, but you could still work on gens, rescue survivors off hooks, and heal yourself or other survivors.
If you are using OoO + MoM to recreate old OoO you not only have to rush to get 2 protection hits, but you are sitting around doing nothing in order to keep it active.
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@SkeletalElite said:
Alternatively they could make it stay at 2 protection hits, but if the protection hit that activates the perk would have downed you (you took a hit while injured) the perk instantly protects you. That way if you want to "bank" the use for later you still have to heal up and go take another hit, but the perk can be used to take 2 hits for someone as well.
They shouldn't do that. Would make it way too consistent for survivors to body block killers trying to hook a survivor. Would basically force Mad Grit or Starstruck to be meta on killers just to ignore that.
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Huntress hatchet cd was not buffed by the killer basic attack cd fyi
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109191#Comment_3109191
And Eruption, and Overcharge, and Thana (initially)
Thana isn't regression.
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So nurse should be nerfed, because this nurse beat this 4 man squad. So this 4 man squad so never lose a game?
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It's weak now.
Legion on larger maps against teams who split will struggle to keep all 4 survivors injured and will lose a lot of slowdown the perk has granted.
Plague on the other hand can force more corrupt purges which can be useful.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109022#Comment_3109022
This was before he was reworked he had a addon where at madness 3 you suffer exhaustion until you snap out of it.
it was removed cause they didn’t want to make exhaustion addons anymore.
Pinhead, Artist, and Dredge have exhaustion addons. Ghostface's addon rework gave him an exhaustion addons.
I wouldn't say the devs didn't want to make exhaustion addons. It's just the older exhaustion addon design inflicted long lasting exhaustion and the devs didn't want that anymore since exhaustion had seen nerfs since it's release.
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@CookieBaws said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109038#Comment_3109038
What stops you from getting a way of the killer? Heal, and be annoying. Since you are ungaging with the killer you team doesn't.
If you heal yourself, you lose the endurance status effect.
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@CookieBaws said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109013#Comment_3109013
But you have leave the killer to get to that point. Also, you can be healed and be a the tank. if somebody gets carried or chased.
I'm discussing solely about the aura reading needing to be a downside to a perk where the perk already prevents you from doing anything to keep the perk active.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109013#Comment_3109013
Please tell how you don't deal with a survivor that is standing in a doorway when the survivor you were chasing is behind them. You'll never catch anyone again if you don't hit them eventually.
Again can we please stop pretending that a competent survivor with endurance is going to sit in the corner of the map crying cause you are ignoring them. They'll make it so you can't ignore them.
This what you posted:
The aura reading is there to prevent survivors holding on to it.
It's unlimited endurance. There needs to be some cost to it.
The aura reading only comes into play when the survivor is not near the killer and all I've been trying to explain to you is how pointless the aura reading is since a survivor who is showing their aura to the killer is not doing anything. There's little reason for both the aura reading and inconspicuous action to both be present downsides to the perk.
It's only unlimited endurance if you are doing absolutely nothing.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108962#Comment_3108962
If you mistime dead hard when trying to bodyblock you are giving the killer a free down. MoM works no matter what and can be used with other exhaustion perks on top of it. You can take a protection hit causing Mom to activate, take an endurance hit and then still Lithe away after that. Trying to use dead hard for bodyblocks is just asking for trouble
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108969#Comment_3108969
You can't avoid a survivor who is standing in your way to another one. Why do people act like someone with endurance is going to go to a corner of the map and sit there. They are going to be hovering around the killer looking for the body block.
Also that this is a waste of time is a thing of the past. With the new update you can't outrace a killer who tunnels effectively anymore. If you aren't actively trying to stop tunneling you are helping the killer. Two people who are on gens while 2 stop the killer from progressing their objective beats 3 people on gens and one who is about to die in this patch
With the aura reading the killer can atleast drop the chase and know later if they can commit.
The killer has no reason to ever deal with the MoM user they can see the aura of, because that survivor cannot work on gens, heal themselves or other survivors, rescue other survivors off hook, or cleanse totems as long as they keep the endurance effect up.
You are trying to say the aura reading is necessary, because there needs to be some kind of risk to MoM. However, MoM endurance means you cannot do anything else without losing it. The aura reading really doesn't offer anything besides just telling the killer to ignore you.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108900#Comment_3108900
The aura reading is there to prevent survivors holding on to it.
It's unlimited endurance. There needs to be some cost to it.
Especially if they don't make a exception about endurance bodyblocks.
Cause as it reads you get stacks for bodyblocking with the endurance effect too which means that every time you get healed you have 2 bodyblocks in your pocket.
There needs to be some way for the killer to know if they can actually commit to a survivor instead of having to fear someone who takes 3 hits to down to jump infront of other survivors all the time
If it didn't have aura reading it would need a set duration. I prefer the aura reading it's way more interresting
If a survivor is holding onto it, they are literally doing nothing. Any killer who is just seeing a survivor's aura at a distance without it being a result of their own perk is going to know to avoid that survivor since they can't do anything as long as they are seen.
The aura reading being a downside to just holding the endurance effect would make sense, if the endurance effect already didn't prevent you from moving the survivor objective forward.
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For perks like ds and otr, then deactivating is fine because they are defensive perks.
What's questionable is MoM getting this treatment.
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The difference is you are dedicating 2 perk slots to it, you have to take 2 protection hits, and then you can't do anything else.
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@kizuati said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107915#Comment_3107915
Except Legion And Especially Plague are the Killers who will keep 4 people injured
Legion cannot keep people injure. Legion may be able to quickly injure an entire team, but if the team splits up Legion cannot keep the survivors injured.
Plague gives survivors a quick way to heal to healthy. Granted this does give her a better power and Plague is still going to like Thana. But it's easy enough for a single survivor to cleanse far away from everyone else to reduce the slowdown.
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Thana is still nerfed for Legion and Plague. Having 1 survivor healthy against them significantly reduces the slowdown applied to you.
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If a zombie injures you, you do lose collision.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106951#Comment_3106951
Original MoM was busted. So maybe the devs are cautious buffing it again.
This change is more the devs wanting to make the Endurance effect from MoM to match the endurance effect granted by other perks. It's good for consistency, but the way they are going about the change just makes it bad.
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@Tsulan said:
Did i miss something? Did MoM suddenly rise to meta? With the amount of threads about the nerf, one could believe that this was the second most used perk next to DH.
People have been asking for MoM buffs for a while. Not that I agree the perk needed a buff, but it's a perk that people like even if no one is using it.
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@Bwsted said:
If you see the aura, you ignore the player, unless you're Legion. They can't progress the game.
If the aura deactivates, congratulations, the survivor just wasted a perk slot.
Sure, they can try to stay in your face while you chase someone else. Well, two people off gens.
It's a perk that actively sabotages itself. It might be worse than Self Care at this point.
The only use MoM has now is if you have a stack and are healthy, you can tank 2 hits while a killer is carrying a survivor to a hook.
It's not something you can't accomplish without MoM, but it's really the only thing that it can do.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106820#Comment_3106820
FYI Thana did get nerfed for Legion and Plague here. At best it’s 20% now instead of 22% and that’s assuming all survivors are injured the entire match which isn’t likely even for Legion and Plague. And on top of that the new description didn’t include “dead” survivors, so once one survivor is dead it sounds like Thana is capping at 6%.
At least Plague can get her corrupt purge from survivors cleansing. Thana Plague is good at forcing corrupt purges.
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@alunsa said:
The thana changes im iffy about still, I think ill need to hear more arguments from both sides before I settle if this is a good change or not.
As for MoM, the aura change seems completely unreasonable. It was barely used before... so why would anyone use it now unless theyre a literal godlike looper? Seems odd, but maybe I just havent seen the value with it yet.
As for the other updates, I just dont care too much about the other changes they made.
The aura is just something that has been part of the perk design since it's release. And honestly I don't see that as being the biggest issue with the perk.
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While the Endurance effect is active, your aura will be revealed to the Killer when they are further than 12/14/16m away
The aura reading is only shown while Endurance is active. If you deactivate the endurance status effect the killer won't see your aura anymore.
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While I don't agree with the MoM changes, this doesn't really affect anything. People weren't running the perk as it is.
Thana is much weaker on Legion now as Legion can still struggle to keep all 4 survivors injured which is where the bulk of the slowdown is in. Plague is a bit different as you'll feed her corrupt purge to remove the slowdown, but again you only need 1 person to do it to remove the bulk of the slowdown.
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@mischiefmanaged said:
They're also effectively bringing back old Object of Obsession. You can combo MoM and OoO to get unlimited aura reading on the killer from 16 meters or more. Now you just have to take 2 protection hits instead of 3 and you get to see the aura while you're both injured or healthy. And you have Endurance.
And you are also doing nothing the entire time and are using 2 perks slots to do it. The problem with old OoO was the survivor would trade 1 perk slot to always know where the killer was as well as being able to move the objective forward.
MoM requires the set up and if the killer ignores you then you are sitting around doing nothing to be a ward for your teammates.
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Thana Plague is going to be the only good user after this change. Plague has a much easier time than Legion keeping all 4 survivors injured since they are broken and she can passively spread damage due to how infection works. This means that survivors will have to feed Plague corrupt purge in order to not take the full slowdown.
Thana Legion is much weaker as it's much harder for Legion to injure and keep all 4 survivors injured if they spread out and since only 1 survivor now needs to stay healthy it's much easier for at least 1 survivor to stay healthy against a legion.
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
Thana joins Ruin and Corrupt in the garbage pile. If I were one of the killers running it every match, I'd be pretty mad.
Before 6.10, Thana was A-tier in a handful of builds on a handful of killers, but there were better perks in most situations. After the update, its (tiny) buff combined with the increased generator times made it A-tier on any gen regression build. Couldn't they just have found a spot in the middle?
Plus side, everyone will be healing like crazy once they see Thana, which means it'll synergize with Nurse's better than it did before.
And at least PR is stacking with DMS again. I never ran that combo much in the first place, and I'd rather have a notification, but whatever. Never saw the PR/MS combo in the wild, and it seems like it'd be hard enough to pull off that it didn't need a nerf.
Congrats on my boy Clown coming back from the dead.
Corrupt is still good on killers who can take the advantage of the 2 minutes to set up.