Crowman
Crowman
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- Crowman
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It's silly how often BHVR creates more work for themselves by touching things that didn't need to be touched. There was no reason to change Myer's power to be a chargeable dash attack. It was perfectly fine that he was an M1 killer who stalks to become stronger.
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BHVR has said there are more changes coming in the next hotfix, because they didn't have time to put everything into this one.
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I remember when BHVR said they had to nerf mangled so it could open up design space for anti-healing perks to only immediately buff and add more healing perks for survivors while giving killers basically nothing.
I just want mangled to be useful again by not having a time limit.
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I'm not sure what killer was asking for the pallets that got pushed live or the Myers rework to be the way it is. Let's not act like everything is put out perfectly for killer. BHVR drops the ball constantly for both sides.
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Rework Myers is way easier to deal than before. You get sound cues for everything he does, he slows himself down to enable his instant down power, and it's far easier to dodge than if he was just M1 lunging you.
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We can objectively measure that new myers is weaker.
Changes: 6 (7 counting addons)
Buffs: 6
Nerfs: 12
He got far more nerfs than buffs and with majority opinion being that he's bad then it's safe to say this rework didn't make Myers stronger.
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Tuft isn't exactly old Myers. He still has the awful slowdown for activating t3 since I see people mentioning it.
You still have to deal with the lowered stalk range with tuft.
You still have 24m TR in pursuer while patrolling.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006192#Comment_4006192
Oh god.
I get an audio when Tier 3 is coming, but ALSO while it's 50% charged, and ALSO while it actually activates? Nope.
Also i dont get why his attack needs an audio warning too, is it not obvious enough?
bhvr hates stealth killers. Bhvr also just has an obsession with everything in the game having sound notifications. Ghostface was orginally going to have a global sound effect when he enters stealth but thankfully bhvr reverted that due to feedback.
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You're forgetting that every other slowdown perk has been nerfed. Like yeah ruin is strong now but the overall strength of these perks have been lowered.
Ruin is in a good place now bc it provides actual value when it didn't before.
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@QwQw said:
I was silently praying that this terrible rework wouldn't make it to live, but sadly it got overshadowed by the anti-tunneling changes and Krasue.
I don't even know who this was aimed at? Certainly not Halloween fans or previous Myers mains, because it's nothing like him. But I don't even think that people who like dash killers will enjoy this, because of how janky, clunky, and plain sluggish it feels to use.
it's aimed at survivors. No more 99% stalk pops when you are on top of the survivor bc of slowdown moving into t3. No more tombstone kills at 0 hooks (although this one is good). Make the instant down power a dash so survivors can dodge it. Notify survivors for everything that Myers does so survivors can't be surprised.
It's the same thing bhvr was trying to do for Skull Merchant. Remove all identity to make killer a dodgeable dash killer.
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@Raccoon said:
You can't switch modes when you have 100% stalk...ie you're stuck in Tier 2.
People are already just 99ing stalk to avoid the STALK FULL sound cue/stay stealthy if they need to and just 100%ing when they can switch/get a down.
It's basically the same scenario as before without an exposed icon + a dash/pallet break.
You can also guarantee a cheesy kill in anyone you've hooked 2x.
Personally, this rework is a failure that also strips the killer of his identity....which people are already circumventing as mentioned above.
you can't 99% hold stalk forever. It does decay if you take too long.
Also what's wrong with being able to mori survivors on death hook?
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The idea of swapping between stealth and attack modes is good. The nerfed stalk range and special attack dash are big failure points. Even with tuft of fur addon you still have reduced stalk range
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005366#Comment_4005366
She wouldnt become much more fun to face if they didnt also buff her.
She would still remain a killer who can just scamper every pallet, chase you down with 4.8 / 7.0 ability and hit you with extended attack reach.
The only difference would've been that MAYBE in some loops she would be clunky enough to be forced to swap. MAYBE.
but it's still same uninteractive slop gameplay with no meaningful skill input from the killer.
the pallet ability was added live.
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I think the issue was bhvr took qol issues and slapped buffs to them. I said during the ptb all they needed to do was give her qol adjustments for the clunky parts of her kit and see how she does. But it's obvious the entire ptb was balanced around the anti tunneling system they added and the devs failed to consider the changes being made without the system in place.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
I mean she felt bad on PTB and changes definetly helped it, she feels good to play as.
Issue is it basically removed limits she had on PTB, so I really have no idea how to play against her now.The issue is what should have just been done qol adjustments ended up paired with buffs. Bhvr does this way too often.
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The avg players is still higher after FNAF. I'm not sure what kind of growth you are expecting.
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Given bhvr plans to implement anti tunnel system, we already have an anti facecamp system. I firmly believe that killer powers not working near hook will be an outdated system that bhvr should remove.
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The game really just favors coordinated squads above everything else. Bhvr keeps adding strong survivor perks that pretty much only function with a team of survivors who are coordinating.
Killer tools more often then not are being nerfed because bhvr refuses to make adjustments to the best killers in the game and focus on changing weaker killers in a way that makes them more brainless to play but not any stronger.
Mranwhile nurse's existence pretty much guarantees every new killer perk that releases is rather weak so she can't break the game with it.
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@SkeletonDance said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002315#Comment_4002315
I hope that strike will not be treated as M2 at least. Myers was the perk when it comes to perks synergies
It won't be. Any M2 attack will be treated a special lunge and if you just want to play a normal M1 lunge Myers you'll have to equip tuft of fur.
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It's always funny seeing people bring up Steamcharts as a sign the game is dying just because the number is less than a previous month. We've done this song and dance before several times and the game is still here. Looking at the numbers on SteamCharts you can see that the game has more players now than it did at the start of the year. Hardly the death of DBD.
Let's also not forget that Silksong and BL4 are new game releases this month and currently DBD has no active event or recent content.
EDIT:
For some further evidence let's look at this page: https://store.steampowered.com/charts/mostplayed
#24 for most current players
#17 for most daily players -
It's funny people calling it an extended lunge when the new M2 ability has a charge with slowdown, moves longer distance than other killers considered dash killers (Chucky, Wesker, Dracula), has limited turning, and does not work with perks that trigger on M1.
If Myers was truly just an extended lunge than none of the above would be true like how it is on live.
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Because the issue isn't numbers. Reducing the numbers from the ptb doesn't change the abuseability aspects of the system nor does it change how the system doesn't really affect the already best killers in the game.
It's better to not send something half bake live.
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I would rather the devs not throw out a half baked system. The system on the PTB was heavily flawed and would need more than just simple number adjustments.
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@AcesSpeedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999664#Comment_3999664
see i just dont agree. its obvious a lot of people are at their wits end.
It's really not. The people who are crying and threatening to quit the game are just a small minority. The people who enjoy playing the game who make up the majority are not coming onto the forums to complain.
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@AcesSpeedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999620#Comment_3999620
survivors have done nothing but wait
Then you can easily wait a bit longer
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BHVR just said they were pushing back the system to make adjustments. You can wait til the mid-chapter.
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@kisfenkin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999589#Comment_3999589
Why fix a major issue in Dead by Daylight? Why are you on the Forums?
The question is not whether the issue exists. It does. The devs acknowledge it as a problem and have said they intend to fix it. The point that I am making is that NOTHING will fix it, except removing it as an option.
So, if you don't want DbD to be fixed, why don't you go play something else. I want them to fix it in a way that is not so obtuse that nobody can remember all the imaginary rules. They are planning on fixing it. So I suggest my idea. You don't like them removing tunneling? Too bad it is coming one way or another.
If fixing an issue means removing the core identity from the game, then either the solution is incorrect or the problem isn't a real one.
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@kisfenkin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999577#Comment_3999577
Yep, just like every other successful PvP game.
So why not play one of those games then? We don't need to remove the Dead from Dead By Daylight.
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A big problem with DBD's community is the loudest voices tend to be from people who decided they only care about the enjoyment of their preferred side. Ultimately these people will never be pleased and they will always find something to "crash out" about.
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Myers new power is now involves charging up your attack while being slowed down and gaining a burst of speed in a forward direction hitting a survivor you collide with. It's also no longer considered an M1 attack. That's a dash.
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I feel like it's important for both systems to be designed with each other in mind and pushing forward the current iteration of anti-slugging without factoring what the future anti-tunneling will be could end up making it much harder to find a better middle ground.
I do hope they push the auto-recovery as that's largely a QoL change that shouldn't impact game balance.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996942#Comment_3996942
Except for all the doomposters on reddit, twitter, youtube, etc, who was absolutely dead certain that bhvr would be pushing the changes from ptb to live as they were no matter what, regardless of feedback.
If no one made an uproar about the changes, they would have just been pushed live.
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@sinkra said:
He's an EX-dev for a reason. Also confirmed killer main lmao.
You know people can change jobs without being bad at their previous job as you are implying.
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I don't really agree that this is an intentionally bad patch. Bhvr has been putting out misses lately.
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996776#Comment_3996776
Except this doesn't just punish hard tunneling. It rewards bad plays by survivors
It's not even rewarding bad play. The unhooked survivor gets to see the killer aura and the game punishes the killer for going after them. This is rewarding survivors playing aggressively.
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There is no direction. It's just a matter of trying to appease survivors by holding their hand. It was obvious when they revealed the health update months ago, because there was a lack of killer stuff listed.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996456#Comment_3996456
But should people force themselves to endure unfun or miserable things? It totally is valid reason.
If someone isn't enjoying games of DBD, then they shouldn't be queueing up to play DBD. The problem with giving up over "fun" is that it just ends up being people quitting matches until they get a match where they get to steamroll the killer in.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995626#Comment_3995626
Its funny how many on this forum says that "only bad killer players tunnel" when the most experienced players - comp and not comp - tunnel heavily when they want to tryhard. Knightlight would be a bad player just because he chooses to tunnel a survivor in the early game? LOL I've went against many respected killer players in my region and they don't mind taking someone out of the game if they can.
A good killer player knows that leaving every survivor alive makes the match much harder than they need to be. I am sure that one of the best and most important killer knowledge in this game is knowing when, how and who to focus
Anyway I'm playing the PTB and survivor is easier than ever. Lets see what the devs are going to do with this patch before the live release.
It's because saying "tunneling is what bad killers do" is just an attempt to shame killers in giving them an easier time.
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I think she shouldn't be touched outside of some minor tweaks when it comes to controlling her power. A problem is this PTB also has a bunch of basekit killer nerfs attached to it and if they roll back some of these basekit nerfs and buff her it might just lead to her getting gutted because BHVR overcorrected which would be a shame.
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I don't think the issue is the concept of an anti-tunnel system. If anything people have been asking for rewards for spreading hooks on the killer end and we do see that in the system they have put on the PTB. However, we also have to look at the sum of all the parts. There's a lot of massive changes that basically will hurt lower mobility and lower lethal killers leaving killers like Nurse and Blight to reap benefits from the system while being able to play around it if not power through the system as well.
We also see a ton of killer perk nerfs with no buffs leaving the weaker killers put in a worse place as well. Meanwhile Nurse and Blight won't really care.
Basically if you play anything other than the absolute best killers in the game, this entire ptb is a middle finger to you.
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It's BHVR logic. They added basekit pop so of course they needed to nerf every instant of gen regression killers can bring into the trial. And we know this will go live with barely any changes.
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@Callahan9116 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994104#Comment_3994104
Giving killers basekit regression for spreading hooks is not a buff, it's a down grade. Like everything else in this god forsaken chapter
I didn't say it as a buff. I just said that since BHVR did it, of course they were going to nerf regression perks.
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They gave Killers basekit regression for spreading hooks. Of course BHVR was going to nerf regression perks. No one should be surprised by this outcome.
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BHVR is more likely to push these changes live with a few number adjustments than they are to completely scrap it and try again. We have 9 years of watching at least 90% of PTB content going live.
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@Coffee2Go said:
Most likely a mini basekit corrupt
BHVR already toyed with this idea and it never left concept phase. Considering the most BHVR ever did about gen speeds was add 10 seconds of repair time and 5% damage on kick then started adding more and more gen speed perks to me shows they don't see gen speeds as an actual issue.
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@SnakePVP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991312#Comment_3991312
Yeah I think the issue with these changes is that they did not consider killer enjoyment whatsoever and just tried to forced break all the biggest complaints from survivors without considering while low rank killers might have to take advantage of some of these killer strategies to get back into the game. Especially against coordinated SWF that can gen rush while wasting a lot of low rank killers time that do not have the high speed movement most S ranks have to apply pressure on large maps. I can only see these changes bringing more abuse and arbitrary ways for killers to punish themselves. Forcing us to keep track of more things.
The funniest thing is they already recongized that killers like Nurse and Blight will benefit more from basekit BBQ and basekit Pop, but fail to recognize that these bonuses really do not help the weakest killers who really need to get a survivor out ASAP.
Nurse will be fine. She'll utilize the BBQ to jump quickly between survivors while running generic slowdown perks since she won't need information perks as much and can quickly down survivors due to her power.
Meanwhile an average killer like demogorgon will struggle to get the most value from BBQ and Pop and will be forced into situations where they could get an early kill due to survivor mistakes but may pass just to avoid being punished for it. -
There's a few problems that I see with the changes that push it in the too much category.
First, 6 hooks is half the killer progress and killers can easily kill a survivor without tunneling with that many hooks. Since the best strategy is to focus your hook on as few survivors as possible, because there's not much benefit to spreading hooks out on all 4 survivors. Even with the changes, this will still be the case.
Second, We already have 8 limit on generator regression events. The prevent any regression or generator blocking will give survivors on death hook a good reason to play aggressively to use the anti-tunnel mechanics aggressively. It's not like the devs have announced they are removing the 8 regression event limit. Not to mention how this might work with killers like Sadako or Pyramid Head whose powers unlock a mori.
Third, reducing the benefits for certain killers doesn't sit right with me. It feels like BHVR recognizes the system won't really stop the best killers in the game from tunneling out survivors. Which means this system largely just hurts killers who need help. After some thoughts, I think if BHVR really wanted to reduce the effectiveness of certain effects on more powerful killers it should be a modifier baked into their power so it's clear when you select the killer play as. Like Nurse's power could reduce aura reading duration. This could also allow the opposite where weaker killers could get benefits like increased aura reading durations.
Fourth, the benefits the killers get for going for unique hooks are going to be left too low values since I know if bhvr put them at any impactful values you would just get survivor complaints until they get nerfed. The extra regression is likely 5-10%. Haste will be 5% for like 10 seconds. The aura reading will still be blockable by lockers or perks. Ultimately, weaker killers will see little benefit from these bonuses while having little they can do to slow down gens without getting punished from the game.
Fifth, removing information from killer UI does not sit right with me.
Finally, this is a bunch of complicated extra things killers need to track which is going to be awful experience for new players. -
I think people largely dislike the pig dash being added to Myer's kit. The extended lunge Myers has currently is an M1 so there's finer control you can have over it.
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The entire anti-tunneling update is just one big bandaid. It's like the devs forgot their own game is an elimination game.
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BHVR doesn't really play their own game and there's simply far more survivors players (due to needing 4 for every match). Killer voices basically get drowned out and we get left with changes that continually make killer gameplay more frustrating and not worthwhile.