Crowman
Crowman
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- Crowman
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DBD isn't a high precision game that requires everyone to be lower than 50 ping. Less than 100 ping is more than fine for DBD. Once you start hitting 120 ping though is when you have problems.
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80 ping is perfectly playable. But in general the abandon feature never should have been added. If you want to leave a match early take a penalty.
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Very likely.
DBD matchmaking favors speed rather than accuracy. Largely because anytime they did focus on accuracy streamers with 1000s of hours had long queues.
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The flip side is if you make it so killers cannot kill survivors quickly then gens will just fly. Most killers do not have strong powers so juggling 4 survivors only works if survivors are significantly worse than you. And survivors wouldn't enjoy facing solely nurses and ghouls either who have strong powers to have quick chases to get multiple hooks quickly.
In my opinion the speed of which killers or survivors can complete their objective is just too fast for games to be enjoyable. You have to adjust both sides objectives, because just nerfing killers when gens can be done in 3 minutes is not better for the game.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039935#Comment_4039935
Most of the cheaters don't even bring money (at least not to BHVR, unless they themselves sell the cheats lol), since they keep using that endless supply of free EGS accounts and unlock everything with cheats (which is also somehow possible, their back-end doesn't even protect their main source of money).
You think the cheaters are going to pay for cosmetics if BHVR built up stronger checks against it? They are more likely to move on to a new game completely than spend money on DBD.
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The answer is simple. Does having people work on detection tools built into DBD's code to detect when impossible actions occur and do something about that make money? No it doesn't. Chapters and Cosmetics bring money.
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I think BHVR relies too heavily on licenses keeping the playerbase up rather than good gameplay. To me, the game feels like it punishes you for trying to do anything synergistic or taking advantage of your opponent's mistakes. Which is why I just haven't played it since last year. Sometimes I think about redownloading the game and play a match, but then I remember that none of the reasons I stopped playing has changed so there's no point.
The other thing is matchmaking. The focus on making sure queues are as quick as possible just leads to the most unbalanced matches being the ones you play most often and those games just are not fun.
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It's always funny when people complain about killer main entitlement while showing they have survivor main entitlement.
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People have been saying the game is dying for years and yet here we are. While I think this year was a mess and losing two license chapters this year is not a good look, it's not like the game will be die next year. We have Stranger Things license coming out start of next year and that will be a boost.
I do think if BHVR doesn't figure out what they want the game to be and require their devs to play their game so they understand the basics, then the game will die out but even then that won't be for years due to license momentum.
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I think removing mechanics for either side just makes the game worse.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038401#Comment_4038401
BHVR is a multi million dollar company, we’ll be just fine without it. Besides that new halloween game is probably gonna flop anyway.
BHVR hasn't really had a successful game outside of DBD and one the main factors to DBD even being successful was the introduction of the Halloween chapter early in the game's life.
While I'm sure BHVR/DBD will be fine in the short term, there is a reason to be concerned about the long term of the game. This year has still been a mess for DBD.
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They really need to implement a system that prevents freshly made accounts from posting images. These always happen on the weekend when mods are least active and always by throwaway accounts just made.
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This is why we need to give killers the ability to abandon when EGC is active. If survivors want to camp the exit, they can wait for a bot replacement.
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@SixtySeven said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037262#Comment_4037262
I haven't seen a killer run Monitor & Abuse after the nerfs, not even the 40m TR killers like Wesker, Ghoul or Blight. They're always running a slug, full aura or anti gen build, or mix of aura and anti gen.
The 40m killers were never going to run M&A, because they have the ability to catch up easily that the benefits of M&A don't really matter and you would rather a slot a better perk.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
Monitor sadly had the "Awakend Awareness" treatment. Some perks are so incredible strong on some Killers that it is not fun.
Since BHVR don´t want to change perks for some Killers "problematic" perks get nuked.
The killers who were running M&A were not strong killers. In fact the change to M&A is a buff to stronger killers who have 40m TRs and a nerf to weaker killers who have 24m or 16m TRs.
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Swf doesn't need to be nerfed nor does solo need to be buffed.
The information gap between the two needs to be reduced so the advantage of swf is lessen.
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I think the addon is fine as it is because making it basekit would reduce ways to deal with legion which wouldn't be good.
I would even say legion would be fine if the power level if the strongest things in the game weren't as high as they were.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035168#Comment_4035168
I don't think an abandon option is warranted when the killer can push the survivors out, that's my opinion. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
At no point should killers be forced to have to force out survivors who refuse to leave without bming the killer. Having an abandon option for this situation is fine. Otherwise there would be no point in adding the abandon system for all survivors slugged, because survivors could always just waited out the 4 minute dying state timer.
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@KingOfDoom55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035365#Comment_4035365
Krasue used the have the same thing and ppl complained about it, literally the entire reason why she doesn't have it anymore is bc of tunneling reasons, which is the same problem Plague has because of it, and just bc their cleansing is different doesn't mean 1 is or isnt more problematic than the other, I just hate how they get rid of something from 1 character but doesn't do it for the other characters that have similar affects or processes
Krasue also has much more going on with her kit than Plague does and is significantly stronger. You basically just want to nerf Plague for the sake of nerfing Plague when she's hardly a problematic killer.
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So people complained about Wesker infection since it was attached to Hindered, but who (besides you) has been complaining about Plague infection causing broken off hook?
You're inventing a problem that has never existed.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035171#Comment_4035171
Oh absolutely, getting picked up multiple times wouldn't constitute as a checkmate, but again, the game can continue without that survivor continuing to play. I've got my own opinions about some of the abandon conditions and how they have been implimented. My point was more about how if the killer abandons, its just a hard cut for everyone out of the match. Thats why it would need to be more strict for killer than for survivor in terms of the required level of futility in resuming. Thats why I also went into exploring other ideas in how to achieve parity if sticking with these mechanical changes that clearly favor one side in both their implementation and considerations.
Allowing endgame to be skipped entirely is a bit much, but it could be done with some type of caveat. Like if the gates are powered within too short of a time limit, or like zero hook stages or something. It would have to be pretty extreme to completely remove a stage of the game, especially when multiple perks on both sides revolve around it. Just like with many elements of the game, its important to respect time and acknowledge removal of agency while understanding the realistic limits of both.
We don't have these kinds of conditions for survivor abandon when all slugged.
Survivors could have unbreakable, no mither, etc and they can still abandon. The final survivor can abandon mid-mori.
Just let killers have no condition free abandon in EGC. It's a 2 minute time save for pointless to play out games.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035168#Comment_4035168
While I agree, the structure of the game is an important consideration. It would have to be a checkmate specifically, as the elimination nature of the survivor role paired with the lack of killer bot replacements means that killer abandoning is a hard cut to the game's conclusion compared to a game which can still continue without one or more survivor players playing. It could still absolutely apply to situations like all 4 in the exit gate while lacking an exit blocking aspect of the killer's kit, though honestly considering abilities like that would fall in line with regards to perks that get ignored with the abandon system, so maybe they could be skipped similarly. But it wouldn't be able to apply to check situations similarly due to the killer role essentially being load bearing to the match itself.
Basically it wouldn't be able to be for games that are mostly over, it would have to be ones where the only way they could change would rely on the winning side purposely allowing it to.
Survivors can abandon after being picked up from dying state twice and being put into dying state a 3rd time. I wouldn't exactly call that a checkmate situation.
If the killer player doesn't want to play out the final 2 minutes of the match, let's not force them.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035144#Comment_4035144
Push them out?
Several killers also have a basekit way to kill a survivor if they're trying to stay in the exit gate and leave last second.
If I'm playing trapper for example and I walk to the gate, at most I have to left click a few times per survivor to push them out. If I'm slugged as survivor, there is nothing I can do basekit to speed up the wait time of 4 minutes on the ground.
Here's the wonderful thing about giving killers the option to abandon in EGC. If they feel like they have something they can do to change the outcome of the match, they don't have to abandon. Why force killers who lack the tools to catch survivors waiting in the exit gates to teabag to waste time when they should have the option to move on to the next match?
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Given that we keep giving more ways for survivors to abandon a match, I think it's perfectly fair to give killers the option to abandon during EGC.
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@crookedAbe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035006#Comment_4035006
Hatch is already in a killers favor, due to higher move speed and maybe a mobility power, what more do you need?
It does not matter if the hatch appears right next to the other survivor. The entire mechanic is luck based.
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None of the proposed changes addresses the core issue that is Hatch.
Killers slug for the 4K in this situation, because otherwise they risk losing their 4K to hatch.
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The concept of removing tunneling means giving survivors actual moments of invulnerability which will lead to more degen gameplay from survivors. And since killers have no other options for playstyles then they will just quit.
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According to bhvr own stats they shared. Survivors being slugged and bleed out to death was rarely happening and giving survivors infinite unbreakable for rare occasions is just a bad idea.
An idea I like is to allow slugged survivors to pick each other up. This way if survivors are getting slugged they can crawl to each other and reset.
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Well bhvr has nerfed strategies that don't involve tunneling and hasn't given killers benefits for not tunneling.
No surprise, killers tunnel.
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@KeefCheif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033488#Comment_4033488
Fair, but try and see things from my perspective. You run a solo q match and run into a Blight (or honestly any killer) running pain res and DMS and they tunnel at 5 gens the second the match starts. This is literally un-winnable for solo q (unless the team is all 5k+ hour survivors); the match could be replayed 1000 times and I honestly don't think the solo survivors would win once.
A trapper running Pain Res and DMS would not successfully tunnel out a survivor before a gen even completes. A lot of the lower tier killers would not be able to do this unless the survivors were just bad.
The specfic issue you have is a result of BHVR not putting a tigher balance on the power discrepancy between killers. We can see this with the fumble of the pallet density updates. Post update was a pain for killers like Trapper, because they have not ability to deal with pallets like a Blight. Now pallets are a joke for blight, but Trapper is fine.
We can't just keep balancing the game around the highest level of power when the solution should be nerfing the highest level of powers on both side, because it is quite possible for survivors to get gens done in 3 minutes. DBD should be a slower paced game than it currently is. -
@KeefCheif said:
I can't even fathom the down votes on OP. This just seems so brain dead logical imo
Because these ideas are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. The killer's role is to kill survivors. Making it so that the killer gets punished by losing access to perks by doing their job is a poor way to balance the game.
The opposite would be disabling sprint burst after the survivor team gets a gen done. It would make the perk less annoying to deal with as killer, but it would be a terrible solution to it.
There's a big problem with the DBD community wanting to micro manage how killers play the game. Adding all these barriers to try to force killers to play 1 specfic way will only hurt the game in the long term, because people will not stay to play as a bot.
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So we nerf Alturism so people need to do more Alturism actions to max the category leading to people needing to fight for unhooks more.
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I remember years ago BHVR considered the idea of adding an early game "collapse" system. It was scrapped without ever being tested on a ptb and IIRC bhvr said it was too good for killers like Nurse.
We'll never be allowed to have nice things for killer as long as killers like Nurse and Blight are allowed to remain as strong as they are.
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@Classic_Rando said:
It’s pretty clear that the devs spend little to no time in public matches. Things that are very clear to us public match players, like most of the maps were fine for pallet density before all this started, seem to be completely lost on the dev team. It often seems like they are playing a completely different game.
they are. They are likely only playing in a setting where they are just seeing if things they added are working as intended. Whether it's against bots, the dev on livestreamed showed us struggling to down a bot, or against other devs.
People were hard on almo for stuff but he at least streamed himself playing actual matches.
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The community is full of "Us vs Them", because the devs do nothing to quash such behavior and even recently with the whole "Evil Killer slugging" on live stream engaging it themselves.
But doesn't help that devs struggle to read the room of what people were actually complaining about and then go 150% in the opposite direction if feedback is remotely negative.
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BHVR loves to operate in extremes.
First we get the extreme of fill up every dead space with pallets making it miserable to play any killer without the ability to ignore pallets.
Now we basically get a full revert except somehow worse in some aspects to before the pallet update.
A lot of this stuff really wouldn't happen if the devs were more familiar with the game they are working on.
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Tormented would need to do more to justify survivors removing it.
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If you play enough on both sides you basically see the same behavior on both sides. Survivors will mock Killers for running meme builds. Killers will mock survivors for running meme builds. Survivors will be toxic in end game chat for winning or losing. Killers will be toxic in end game chat for winning or losing.
Ultimately BHVR has done very little to combat toxicity and in a way promotes this kind of behavior when they go on live stream and talk about evil killer behavior justifying the "us vs them" mentality.
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I think it would have been better to keep it at 10s and add elusive for 30s. Elusive itself can't be used offensively and endurance off hook is only needed to defend against being downed immediately off hook.
Elusive also wouldn't punish killers for the unhooked survivor making a mistake trying to avoid the killer.
Obviously the extra 5 seconds helps but it's going to be used for more body blocking than figuring fighting being tunneled.
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There's over 40 killers in the game. It would be a shame if we continue to make it unattractive to play anything besides the top 5 killers.
Ultimately there's a lot of work BHVR needs to do if they want to make tunneling and slugging not worthwhile and frankly I just don't see BHVR willing to put in that work because it would mean nerfing top tier killers, nerfing survivor's ability to quickly heal and quickly complete gens, and granting killers strong incentives to spread out hooks. -
@ObsidianButterfly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030644#Comment_4030644
Survivors are often told to "adapt" because at the end of the day, they are just skins. They all play the same, do the same thing, etc. They are balanced among each other because there is no uniqueness, therefor it comes down to individual skill (what what perks they chose).
Telling killers to "adapt" isn't so simple because every killer is different and functions differently. Because of that, a new thing (perk or playstyle or whatever) that survivors get may be flat-out un-adaptable because of how a particular killer works.
Actually Killers adapting would just be not playing weaker killers. Which is sort of the fundamental problem with the changes BHVR was testing on the ptb. They hurt weaker killers who need help far more than they hurt stronger killers who have the tools to deal with everything survivors have access to.
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If you're going to grief instead of eating a harsh dc penalty, you really should be asking yourself why you are even playing the game in the first place. I'm tired of catering towards this baby behavior where we can't punish you too harshly or you'll throw a tantrum and then you throw the tantrum anyways.
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Well BHVR constantly knee caps their own DC penalty system and alongside the abandon system it's actually easier for survivors to quit games without building up large time penalties.
I think the core problem is that the devs just do not play their own game in an actual setting and rely too much on data and surveys to make changes. And the surveys lately show a bias towards survivor as well.
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Bhvr just refuses to actually address the issue. They keep adding new ways for survivors to abandon and luck offerings still allow you to #########.
Ultimately bhvr wants to cater to a group of entitled people and it's frankly going to kill the game.
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The main problem with SBMM is not that the game is an asymm. It's that BHVR focuses on fast matchmaking which undermines the whole point of SBMM. You can't have both fast and accurate matchmaking.
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The biggest reason imo for killers to uninstall is just that the devs don't appear to care about the quality of the killer role.
They'll make tons of perk basekit for survivor to help them out. But for killers, you'll be lucky if they give you 50% of one of the only good addons a killer has basekit just so they can nerf that addon.
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DC penalties need to be harsh or they are otherwise ignorable and fail to do their job. Some people just need to learn to stop playing a game they don't enjoy.
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I think the Abandon System should go in general or give the killers more options to abandon since survivors have so many ways to just leave a match. It's rather annoying that the last survivor remaining can abandon immediately upon being downed and yet killers can't abandon when gates are open.
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@Steakdabait said:
Great future proofing idea for perks but this community unironically whined to bhvr until the awful mechanic of haste/hinder stacking was kept so gg
tbf bhvr also barely made adjustments when they were trying to remove haste stacking. If we Are to remove perk stacking than bhvr would need to do a full out overhaul which they seem to want to avoid