Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@[Deleted User] said:
I do not understand why Huntress was a priority, when Killers like Legion (who by the way have consistent suggestions given to improve their kit/add-ons) get ignored.
Huntress has a worse kill rate, and was nerfed by the map changes (increased amount of clutter) way more than Legion.
Also, Legion's rush M2 has downsides because it has full unrestricted mobility.
@RhysVMT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670235#Comment_3670235
Yeah I follow your videos and pop in your Twitch chat often and idk why your feedback for Legion is ignored so much of the time. The killer is so desperately in need of changes and QoL tweaks. LIke Frank's Mixtape being somewhat basekit would be a nice change, and I have no idea to this day why PoB and scratchmarks can't be seen in Frenzy when Spirit has all of these features visible in her power (granted she can't physically see the survivor but still). It say's a lot when Legions best build is his BFFs endgame build, which even then relies on NWO to be stacked and NoED to not be found immediately. IMO he's slowly slipping into Freddy/Myers tier of forgotten and left behind with new killer and rework power creep.
Spirit doesn't have the same downsides as Legion specifically because survivors are invisible when Spirit is phasing. That's a huge downside. And killers like Blight and Oni don't have the same downsides as Legion because they have restricted mobility with their rushing powers.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670012#Comment_3670012
there are no plans to do that, as we've always said the boxes are part of the slowdown of her kit, her ambush attack is more of her power than the boxes. They get survivors off gens to remove them, that works as a slowdown.
I really miss the horror and tension the boxes used to create.
Yes, the boxes were always related to slowdown, but originally all of the horror and tension revolved around them. The boxes used to have an extreme threat of lethality, and there used to be a lot of tension and horror revolving on whether or not a survivor will be able to get their trap off, or whether or not Pig would sneak up and ambush them while they were working on a box. And even though every Pig game didn't involve a head pop, the threat of a head pop was always real.
...but now all the horror is gone. The lethality of the boxes have been severely nerfed, and the boxes will be reduced to "survivors do their side quest, and don't need to worry about the timer, and mostly don't need to worry about being interrupted, and if the screaming perks are still an issue then that risk will get removed too".
And yes, I get it that it's "more fair for survivors" that way. But at this point the traps are just "set it and forget it", and ambush takes extremely low skill to use, so now everything about this killer is just really blah. Yes, you are correct that the boxes provide slowdown, but is "click a button and that's it" really a fun ability?
It would have been so much better if her stealth speed was made way more decent, instead of Pig getting ambush buffs, so we could have at least given her an identity of having great stealth. But instead, her stealth speed is still bad, and her ambush is still only good on very specific situations, where it's still usually just a 50/50 chance of hitting. Everything this killer does is just so mediocre.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669946#Comment_3669946
just to give you some hope here, your voice was heard - we heard it. Just because it's not in this update doesn't mean it's not on our radars. The killer changes made in this update are all small tweaks that do not require a huge amount of programming time, other changes do require that time. If we're seeing a problem develop further with the scream builds, I'm sure we will tackle it.
Will BHVR ever consider reworking Pig’s trap power to be something completely different?
If Pig’s traps really are supposed to be a “press a button, then ignore that survivor” slowdown power, then maybe Pig would be better off with a completely different power.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Nowhere in my post did I say it was on the same level as those 2 Killers. I said it was “alright”comparatively speaking.
Not sure where you got that from…
Please if you’re going to comment a reply on someone’s reply back to you, at least fully read it…otherwise we just fall flat completely on the topic at hand.
Again, I didn’t need luck. The ambush is much better now and that doesn’t include addons. Plus her stealth is better. Still could use a buff to at least 4.0 to be more on pare with the other stealth killers….but yeah…
I’ll wait for the YouTube montages, that show off the “much better” ambush hits.
If I want a trap based stealth killer, I’m just better off playing Skull Merchant. Skull Merchant moves at full speed during stealth, and has super quiet footsteps, and trying to zone survivors into her drone traps is way more interactive than Pig’s “press a button then ignore that survivor” traps.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669869#Comment_3669869
Sure true I guess but Compared to the other killers like blight and wesker it WAS trash….not anymore….Now it’s alright, but pig can also go undetectable they can’t.
Her ambush though is far from trash, I don’t think you played her on the ptb. It’s actually quite nice now.
You need auras to potentially stop them from getting their trap off? Nothing stops you from playing in that style of that’s how you want.
If you honestly think PTB Pig’s ambush is anywhere near the same level as Blight and Wesker’s dashing attacks….. then I really don’t know what else to say, except “good luck with that”
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@jesterkind said:
It is, but it also can't be stronger than this without being unhealthy, and this is already kind of pushing it.
So rather than clamouring for the addon to get buffed, we should all focus on trying to get it reworked so it can actually be strong and healthy at the same time.
It's already not really worth it to run this addon, so that hasn't changed. At least he actually gets to benefit from all the other changes in every game, lol.
It’s currently worth running iri pinky, because you can combine it with the +2 bottle addon.
The new addon should have said “reduces the number of bottles by -5 bottles”
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669689#Comment_3669689
1) This is False..”The timer change wasn’t important.”
(Yes it is important, when they increased the timer on the reverse bear traps, it made the traps irrelevant and not lethal. I don’t need to explain why that’s important.)
2) If somebody has a trap on their head, you need to worry less about them and more about the people that are completing your generators so they don’t get out. If a generator is completed, that’s fine, now their trap is active they just punished their friend. I don’t think it’s really necessary to linger around jigsaw boxes.
3) This is False…“The Chase buffs don’t really help” did you play her on the PTB? The buffs were amazing! They help immensely and moving quicker while in stealth is also very helpful.
Also your last statement about her chase power contradicts itself. You’re saying the chase buffs aren’t very helpful but then proceed to say we can’t allow it to be useful because it takes 0 skill? (I’m so confused what you’re trying to say because you argue one point but agree back on the same point.)
Its either useful or it’s not - if you played her on the ptb like I did then you would’ve seen how useful it was.
Ambush is still garbage after those changes. Compared to other “dashing M2” killers like Blight, Wesker, and Chucky… Pig’s ambush is still absolute trash.
And seeing box auras was a good thing, because it made her traps more interactive with Pig. Placing a trap on a survivor, and never intending to maybe interrupt or find them while they are trying to removed a trap, is boring. It’s a lazy, uninteractive power.
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@SoGo said:
Still less of a nerf than the removing of the visual effects when hit by a bottle...
Yeah, I think Clown is overall nerfed from all these changes. And I won’t use iri pinky ever if it’s just 1 bottle, so it might as well get deleted from the bloodwebs
And the yellow bottle delay is still too much, and needs to be reduced another 0.5 seconds. There really isn’t many scenarios where I couldn’t yellow bottle on live, but I could yellow bottle on the PTB.
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The timer change wasn’t important. Pig being unable to see box auras massively reduces how interactive her power is. BHVR wants her power to be “press a button to place a trap, then go do something else, because we want to discourage Pig from trying to interact with survivors that are trying to remove their trap”
And the chase “buffs” don’t really help. We can’t honestly allow an M2 power like Pig’s ambush, actually be useful, because the skill required to use ambush is like zero, because she has full unrestricted mobility and sight during her power.
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Is this really “under review”? How has this been “under review” for 3 months?
Is this a top secret bug that BHVR wants to pretend doesn’t exist? I don’t understand why BHVR hasn’t responded in the TEN MONTHS that this bug report has existed for.
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If survivors are getting random generator explosions often enough that they consider it a problem, then they are leaving generators way too often.
Maybe BHVR could give survivors a grace period of 2 seconds after hitting a normal skill check, where it’s safe to let go of a generator. But also greatly increase the chances of a random generator explosion if a survivor lets go at any other time.
That would give survivors known safe times to leave a generator, and still discourages survivors from excessively pre leaving generators when the visual terror radius shows up. We don’t need to encourage survivors to excessively hide more than they currently do, so random generator explosions should always be in the game.
This would also add tension and decision making to the game. If the visual terror radius pops up, does a survivor try to wait for a skill check, or risk a generator explosion if they immediately leave? This is a horror game, and should have more tension moments like this.
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This map is way too big for killers that are stuck traversing the map at 4.4 or 4.6 speed.
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The giant collection of windows that spawns near each other, is so awful for M1 killers. How is this considered acceptable?
Killers don’t even have the option to break some of the walls in window-land… it’s just awful the entire game.
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BHVR should keep locker generation exactly the same, but add special “entity lockers” to the map when the killer is Dredge.
Entity lockers are exactly like regular lockers, but survivors won’t be able to hide in them. Maybe they can be a different color from regular lockers, and some spikes or whatever added to them so it’s 100% clear they aren’t normal lockers.
This is the perfect solution, because it buffs Dredge without secretly sneaking in a buff for survivors.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668247#Comment_3668247
i think it is more that every part of the map should have weak pallets or weakish window tile-set loops. a dead zone survivor is free down. most of older maps have too little pallet density but too strong loops. Haddonfield is perfect example of that. the houses are outrageous strong loops but pallet density is so low that the killer can turn entire map into barren dead-zone where only play is said windows. A compounding problem is that strong windows reduce requirement to use pallet resources because using a window costs nothing. You don't need any pallet resources if every house is like haddonfield infinity.
That won't work. "Weak pallets" won't be considered acceptable if killers could actually outplay them. People will demand for the street resources to be safe enough that they could safely and reliably get to a house.
Usually when people talk about "mind gameable" pallets and windows, what they really mean is that survivors can mess it up if they play the resource incorrectly, but if they play the resource correctly then it's a 100% chance they are safe. Otherwise it's considered "unsafe", because the killer can get a hit if they play the pallet or window correctly.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668069#Comment_3668069
(For some reason, the reply box won't update with the poster's edit.)
I gotta say, I agree with you on the color filters over maps. Looking at older pics of MacM Estate shows a stark contrast to what we have now. It looked way too blue. Almost cartoon-like. THAT'S WHAT THAT IS.... My buddy swore I was crazy. There is a definite green tint to the Autohaven map.. Yea why TF don't they get rid of that...? xD It really drags down the visuals of the map..
You know why we even still have a green tint on Autohaven? It's because people was still really hung up over the removal of the blue tint on MacMillan for it's rework and this is the result of bhvr listening to that feedback, it is not the only time something like that has happened based on outrage feedback.
Another example is the new Survivor movement and how it's turning locomotion was removed because people couldn't either moonwalk anymore or spin the killer as easily despite the fact that by comparison, there were virtually no difference in terms of turning speed as well as it making Survivor movement look much more smoother and up to date, in fact you can find more people nowadays saying how they want it back, in fact i've seen more people being vocal nowadays about how they miss the now removed locomotion.
Another example is chase music, while this one is more subjective, it is still a case in point as for every chase music that is replaced, you'll have half of the community on the forum, youtube, twitter, etc. saying how they miss that version.
It's quite frankly become routine with this community, first they want something gone and then they want it back.
However, I will say that I was pretty upset when the Gideon Meat Plant got visually updated... The lights in the bathroom in the trailer were extremely blue which looked more faithful to the movie, but what we got just looks...meh.. :/ Probably some graphical thing that this almost 10 year old game engine/code couldn't handle well enough..
It seems we might agree on some things after all. Yeah the sharper blue light in the bathroom is the only thing really missing from the map, that and if Tobin Bell's voice would play on the Jigsaw tv screen in the workshop part of the map when you approach it and tells you ''I wanna play a game.''
It's removal however i don't think it has anything to do with the coding, i think it's more likely to have been toned down due to people's feedback, but that's just my guess.
There was a PTB when BHVR gave survivors actual animation frames for when they turned, and there was survivor outrage because it wasn't as easy to confuse the killer when their movement was properly animated. So we're stuck with garbage looking survivor movement, that's totally missing animation frames.
Which means we simultaneously have "360s are fine because they barely work anyway" and "we'll super complain survivors are properly animated because that makes it more difficult to 360"
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@Devil_hit11 said:
infinity window loops. enough said.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666934#Comment_3666934
you can already do 2 minute chases consistently on the map with 1 health-state. Imagine if this map had as many pallet as Gideon's in the streets. 5 minute chases.
I'm fairly sure a lot of people want the deadzones removed, but the houses to still be very strong.
Imagine if BHVR made the streets stronger for survivors, but nerfed the houses as compensation.... there will be so many people screaming "BHVR HATES SURVIVORS. Look at how much they nerfed the houses just to make killers happy".
And I'm STILL seeing a whole bunch of comments on these map threads, where people just want every deadzone removed. For reals? People think every place on the map should be safe? Every generator should be safe to work on, with zero risk because they should all connect to strong resources? There are even people admitting certain main buildings are very strong, but are still complaining if there are deadzones around that strong building.
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BHVR should keep locker generation exactly the same, but add special “entity lockers” to the map when the killer is Dredge.
Entity lockers are exactly like regular lockers, but survivors won’t be able to hide in them. Maybe they can be a different color from regular lockers, and some spikes or whatever added to them so it’s 100% clear they aren’t normal lockers.
This is the perfect solution, because it buffs Dredge without secretly sneaking in a buff for survivors.
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@Yharwick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668062#Comment_3668062
I mean I disagree I feel like I get a lot of milage out of them but maybe I'm just extremely lucky with my totem spawns.
And even if they get cleansed that's them not on gens so they're still useful.
That’s great that you get value off of “cleanse one and done” hex perks. Unfortunately, they would be a waste of perk slots for me, because I often get survivors that can laser focus totems down.
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@Yharwick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667984#Comment_3667984
So what I'm hearing is it's time for hex builds to make a comeback.
No. All the "cleanse one and done" hex perks are still complete trash, and aren't worth using. Allowing survivors to just delete a perk with a single cleanse, is a waste of a perk slot for killer.
This means killer is mostly just stuck with plaything or pentimento, which aren't really that popular, and honestly don't feel like they are as impactful as slowdown perks.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667909#Comment_3667909
Distortion and Calm Spirit are not that popular tho. Both perks did not even make in top 10
Distortion is popular in the games I'm in. I don't care what the top 10 is for the entire planet, across the entire MMR range. I can tell you right now, that self-care is not the #6 most picked survivor perk in my games, even though the official stats says so. Distortion is either top 10 in my games, or close enough that it might as well be top 10.
Also, it doesn't matter if Distortion is top 10 or top 15, because I'm personally seeing it often enough that I refuse to use aura perks. That is my personal experience, and if you ask why I prefer slowdown perks... that's the reason. If survivors want more people to use tracking perks instead of slowdown perks, then the tracking perks need to be more reliable.
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@Yharwick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667909#Comment_3667909
Running into a lot of people with calm spirit?
Running into a lot with Distortion. Enough that I don’t even bother with aura perks anymore.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Most games are GE + PR + Corrupt and Pop.
Sometimes Deadlock in and one of those perks out. Or sometimes it's just not regression build, instead it's blocking build which means GE, PR, DMS and Corrupt.
Pretty much those perks are in almost all games.
So question is that, how you are feeling with facing with those perks?
Slowdown perks are the only reliable perks, because of distortion and calm spirit. Why should killers bother running tracking perks, if survivors can just bypass them? GE, PR, Corrupt, and Pop are all reliable perks, that survivors can't easily bypass, so of course they are going to be popular.
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This feedback applies to all the farm maps. I think they are all way better than they used to be. Before these map reworks, survivors burnt farm map offerings way too much, and now it's way more reasonable.
I do think red scratchmarks/blood/auras need to be more vibrant on these maps though, because they aren't as visible on the bright yellow theme of the map. Orange event auras, and white auras, are also extra awful to see on these maps. I do think it's fun to have different aesthetics for different maps, but bright yellow maps are currently kind of a burden on killers, because this game doesn't allow us to have custom aura colors for each map (or anything else that could help make this problem better).
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Freddy deserves full rework. He was the reason i bought this game and now he is garbage. It's sad to see him like that. He is icon, one of the best slashers....
For Twins. Hopefully they fix both side problems. Twins hated because of slugging was only way to play them and survivors hate it. Hopefully her new kit won't force them to slug like before.
The Twins rework will 100% be an overall nerf. Slugging will get super nerfed, and Twins might get extremely minor buffs, that won't be anywhere near compensation for the slugging nerf.
It's just like how Sadako got complaints about condemn kills being unfair, so they got super nerfed. Or like how Pig got complaints about trap kills being unfair, so they got super nerfed. The only reason why Billy's rework was different, was because there really weren't any complaints about part of his gameplay being unfair.
Because honestly, BHVR has taken so long to do this Twins rework, and they've given zero actual information on the actual changes, which likely means that whatever is being planned is going to be terrible for Twins players. Because if there was anything positive to contribute, they could have said it.
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The main building needs more hooks, because this is one of the boil over favorite maps, just because of the main building.
Also, the main building is very strong, which means there should be a lot of dead zones on other parts of the map… but this doesn’t seem to be happening.
There are multiple maps with strong main buildings, where I don’t feel like the rest of the map was properly nerfed in compensation.
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This map is currently balanced by the fact that the houses are super awful for m1 killers (especially the long wall that has 2 windows), but the entire middle of the map is sort of a dead zone.
The problem is a lot of survivors want the giant dead zone removed, but I’m not sure how that is supposed to happen, without the houses getting severe nerfs.
I thought it was supposed to be clear, that if a map has a very strong building, or multiple strong buildings, that other parts of the map need to be weaker to balance it? I don’t understand why so many people are demanding for all dead zones to be removed, but BHVR doesn’t respond to these demands, by explaining that dead zones are sometimes necessary, and are in the game on purpose?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666863#Comment_3666863
I mean if you were sweat player, game will send you to against similar teams. I don't know your playstyle tho. But if you are playing to win, you will face against the teams who is trying to win as well.
The end result is that any killer that’s garbage at 1v4, doesn’t get played.
But that doesn’t mean I’m always playing “top tier” killers. I could be playing someone like Legion or Trickster, because even though they usually don’t rank very high in tier lists, they actually have 1v4 powers.
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I still won’t play most of the killers, because my MMR is still messed up.
Just so everyone is on the same page, when I’m playing someone like Blight, it’s fine if the game wants to send me the most obnoxious survivors that are available. I probably deserve it because I play to win, and my kill rate with Blight is probably higher than it should be.
But when I’m playing someone like Dredge, and the game keeps sending me bully SWFs that are playing like they are trying to make YouTube montages, then I just won’t want to play killers like Dredge.
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666167#Comment_3666167
That never happens on survivor side. Exploit fixes only get hated on killer side.
The short forced M1 mechanic, that can steal hits from the killer, is still in the game, and still hasn't been fixed yet, despite being in the Bug Reports section for almost a year.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
Before the recent update to rift fragments per challenge (3 and 5 going to 5 and 8), my sister, who plays very casually has always just managed to finish every rift. It felt just right. However, with this new update, the rift seems too easily complete-able.
And with this 4x rift gain activation (with 40 days left in the rift btw), the rift is so easy to speedrun through. The pacing of the rift is ruined imo, and it very quickly leaves active players with very little left to do. Reaching that specific tier to complete the outfit you want is really satisfying. However, since you can finish the rift way too fast, you lose things to strive for .
What motivates my sister the most to play are the tome challenges mostly, but also rift progression. What motivates Otzdarva the most are challenges that he (usually) comes up with. That's what keeps the game fun for him.
I also love progressing through the rift, and achieving things. But if you make the things way too easy to achieve, people get BORED. I really encourage you to re-think your approach with the rift/tomes. Especially since people find it much more easily to use in-game challenges to keep themselves engaged/busy, than coming up with their own (like Otz).
Fortnite, for example, has 200 tiers, bonus rewards, etc. It keeps me engaged and wanting to play throughout the whole season. I love grinding and achieving things.
DBD in comparison offers too little of that. The motivation to play plummets often. People go to other games that do have things to achieve, or challenge them.
Thank you for reading :)
I sometimes don't play enough DBD to complete every rift, so I'd rather the rifts be easier to complete.
The problem is that everyone I know in real life that likes PvP games, only wants to play competitive PvP games that are tournament ready. They specifically like ranked modes, being about to see their rank, and seeing how they compare to the rest of the world (a lot of these games will have known rank distributions, like "16% of the players are at gold rank"). DBD is not one of these games. This game is so unbalanced, that competitive games have a huge custom ruleset, that is so different from public games, that it doesn't even feel like the same game.
As a result, whenever there is a long period of time when my friends ask me to play games with them, it's never this game, and I don't complete that DBD rift. And I know there is a 0% chance any of my friends will start playing this game, if it doesn't have a ranked mode with visible ranks.
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The title of this screenshot is "WHERE IS THE BASEMENT????????" This specific underground floor is the most unbalanced thing on all the maps in the entire game.
Someone please explain to me how we can have a large underground floor, filled with narrow hallways, that sometimes doesn't spawn a basement, and never has any hooks? This floor can be a boil over nightmare even when basement is here... but when basement isn't here, it usually involves letting survivors bleed out on the ground, if the survivors get knocked to the ground in one of the narrow hallways.
And yes, when basement isn't here, I've had many survivors purposely get knocked to the ground in one of the narrow hallways, because they are fully aware there's a 0% chance that I can get them to a hook.
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Short killers like Chucky, that feel absolutely miserable to play on this map, because he's shorter than the tall grass, and there is A LOT OF TALL GRASS in the swamp maps.
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Short killers like Chucky, that feel absolutely miserable to play on this map, because he's shorter than the tall grass, and there is A LOT OF TALL GRASS in the swamp maps.
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@NotJared said:
Since the Ormond rework in Alan Wake's midchapter patch, I think Ormond has felt much better to play on for both sides! There are still some difficulties, though.
The addition of a hook on the 2nd floor of main is very welcome, but Killers can block the doorway to the room in endgame to prevent hook rescues entirely (unless that's been changed and I haven't noticed).
Previously, I would have instantly said that Ormond felt very Survivor-sided. Thanks to the rock in front of Main Building being broken up, it feels much better to play on and to patrol gens as Killer. That said, when the Killer is leaving main there are still many huge, open sightlines. These sightlines give Survivors plenty of heads-up to start pre-running, especially in the front of the building.
This is a similar issue to on-release Borgo: The map was quite open, giving survivors plenty of time to leave early and get ready and set up in a strong position.
If anything, I think the map needs more line of sight-blockers around/in front of Main, or some reduced visibility.
Main Building feels much more manageable on Killer if you break all the doors. However, there are many doors and this takes valuable time.
I will admit that there are many pallets on the sides of Main, however, that's the fun part about pallets: Once they're depleted, they're gone forever. Survivors have much more difficulty traversing from one side to the other late-game, but I think that's alright as main is still decent even without the pallets on the side of the map up. I think the pallets on the map, while initially strong, are fine.
Shack also feels really strong for Survivor on this map with certain adjacent spawns; if shack gen is done and shack pallet is still up late-game, it's easily a go-to resource for many Survivors that's not worth chasing at as Killer for it's often out of the way from anything else on the map. At the same time, should any nearby resources be depleted, shack would become an absolute deadzone, making camping Shack Basement extra strong.
Shack Basement on Ormond is one of the strongest basements to camp in the whole game, I feel, due to how removed Shack is from the rest of the map. Especially if the connecting pallets to shack or towards Main are depleted, escaping basement on Ormond Shack can be an absolute nightmare. Even if a Killer is not camping basement, Shack is built into a little nook in the map, making it further away from the rest of the map and the Killer can thus easily corner Survivors back into basement should they make a head back towards shack.
What I think would help both sides is if Shack was nudged out from the little nook that the map has carved out for it. I hate to see maps lose unique shapes, but the little nook carved out for shack makes it so far away from any other resources worth patrolling, while reliably containing a strong structure for Survivors to run that is far away from anything, and also being one of the most punishing corners of the map to go down in.
I think in some ways the map could feel much better as Killer and much less punishing on Survivor to be hooked in Basement should it be changed from this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Z508FUSLT8YU/image.png
To this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JV99L0BKFACX/image.png
HOWEVER, I recognize that squishing out the back nook of the map would bring all the tiles on that wall behind main closer together, making them even stronger as a whole and even stronger to chain together the 2 maze tiles in the back. This creates a whole different set of problems.
I think the size of the map (should the nook be squished out) is actually okay; Extra space should appear somewhere else should the shack's nook be squeezed out to keep ample distance between tiles and to keep the map feeling like it has a unique shape, such as:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2S09B2J1J4XT/image.png
I don't know what the right solution is, but it's my experience that many games can go south quite easily on Ormond with the time wasted chasing at Shack or with a strong camping scenario in Shack basement.
Gameplay-wise, Blight collisions on the snow piles are impossible, and even though the shapes of some objects were changed with the recent rebalance sometimes as Survivor I do feel like I'm still tripping over my toes on short snow piles. But these are more minor issues plaguing the map that I think can be fixed more easily.
It’s way more than just the snow piles. Certain rocks have angles with broken collision. Shack walls might have a short rock wall at the bottom that has broken collision. Some other walls might have a short wooden plank along the bottom that causes those walls to have broken collision. Hitting certain trees at certain angles have broken collision (I.e. the V shaped trees have broken collision at the lowest part of the V shape). And parts of the tractor have broken collision. Ski racks were broken at certain angles. And some other objects (like one giant metal object that sticks out at Blight’s head level, that I’m not even sure what it’s supposed to be) have broken collision.
And some maps have similar issues with certain tree roots, or certain small objects that are placed up against larger objects, that break the collision for the larger objects.
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@Mandy said:
On the subject of maps - we do have a forum section set up to garner specific feedback, we'll be adding new realms every few days or so (not weekends), where we're focusing on what players like / dislilke about the maps.
This will be helpful for our Level Design Team moving forwards as it creates a repository of information all in one place for them. So please do not hesitate to leave your thoughts on the maps mentioned there...thank you!
Will BHVR be responding to the feedback? We had so much negative feedback about garden of joy, but when BHVR made changes to that map, I think they only changed like 1 or 2 breakable walls, and kept everything else exactly the same? And then BHVR didn’t comment on the map changes at all?
There was also a lot of negative feedback about the red maps making it very difficult to see red auras/scratchmarks/blood, and it’s still really horrible. Are these maps red on purpose, specifically to make it more difficult to track survivors?
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Blight still has collision issues on a whole bunch of objects on this map. We’ve been waiting literally years for BHVR to fix Blight’s collision, and it still hasn’t happened yet.
Blight’s M2 bumping hitbox on goes from his waist to his shoulders, so any objects that stick out below his waist, or stick out above his shoulders, cause him to slide off that angle of that object.
There used to be a BHVR dev working to fix this, but after he left, we haven’t heard anything at all about BHVR fixing these collision issues.
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@That_One_Friend said:
Currently, I find that it is difficult to earn Survival bloodpoints. They mostly come from escaping and self healing iirc, as well as interacting with a few killer powers. Even if you escape, survivors get far less bloodpoints than killers. If a killer had a rough game, they still tend to make more than the survivors did. It feels bad for when you complete all the gens, get chased for a few minutes, and escape and only make 24,000bp when the killer can get 30,000+ for killing 3 people.
I would recommend every time you complete a generator, cleanse a totem, unhook/heal, or otherwise progress towards escaping, you get survival BP.
- 7000 for escaping
- 1500 for making it to endgame
- 1000 per generator that you complete
- 250 for unhooking/healing
- 100 for totems/chests/etc.
Survivor points should be increased for chases only, to encourage survivors to interact with the killer.
The game shouldn’t be rewarding survivors that want to excessively hide, and don’t want to help with their fair share of chases.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662457#Comment_3662457
(Numbers are totally made up, so don't read too far into them. Apologies in advance, this is wordy.)
Just want to start here and clear this up before answering the original question. While you do have separate ratings when you play either Killer or Survivor, MMR for the two roles are definitely connected. A 1500 rating Killer would be matched with a 1500 rating Survivor. Each role is somewhere along the same sliding scale, they aren't scored in completely different ways. Beyond that, the win/loss conditions for each role are the same (but flipped, of course) - and this is a very crucial part which I'll get into next.
For a rating system like this to work, you absolutely need one winner and one loser or a draw/void. In order for one person to gain MMR, another person has to lose MMR. This rule, combined with the way your rating changes more or less depending on the rating of the people you faced, prevents ratings from climbing endlessly and becoming meaningless. The best player in the world will eventually run out of equal or better players to beat and stop climbing once they've reached the top.
This is crucial. If both players can win at the same time, their ratings will both increase even though their actual skill level stays pretty much the same. They could then face off again, and despite being at the same skill level as before, gain MMR again. Across millions of matches, people would generally trend upwards.
To put it a simply as possible, you go from the follow possible outcomes to a match:
- A win
- A loss
- A draw/void
To these:
- A win
- A close match that also counts as a win
- A loss
- A draw/void
There are more opportunities to gain MMR than to lose MMR. Your MMR becomes more of a reflection of playtime than actual performance. An average player could climb to 2000 MMR by playing a lot and end up facing a really good player who happens to play much less often. If that happens, the system has failed.
Now applying that to hooks like you've used as an example, say the Killer hooks each Survivor twice and all Survivors escape.
- Every Survivor gains a lot of MMR because everyone escaped
- The Killer gains some MMR because they got most of their hooks
This is that exact situation where both sides gain MMR simultaneously, breaking the entire system. The only way to fix it is to draw a line and determine who won and who lost. Does the Killer deserve the win because they got 8 hooks? If so, is that fair to call it a loss for the Survivors who not only escaped, but kept all their teammates alive? It is incredibly muddy and impossible to say for certain who deserves to move up.
This is one of the reasons why MMR is based on kills & escapes. For one side to win, the other side needs to lose.
Beyond that, they act as a "proxy" for skill - in other words, playing really well will usually result in you catching and killing more Survivors, and vice versa. The reason why we use a proxy is because it is impossible to accurately assess someone's skill with a formula. There will always be a what-if that throws a wrench in things. "What if it's based on hooks? But what if the survivor escapes in the end anyway? But what if it's based on chase times? But what if the killer is tunneling someone and I never get chased, so the best move for me was to do gens?" and so on.
To put it bluntly, it is impossible for any matchmaking system to accurately assess your skill from a single match. No matchmaking system in the world can do it. There will always be too many factors involved to say definitively, and so proxies are used to help gauge where you should be over the course of many matches.
All this is to say: Your invisible rating going up or down is not a reward or a punishment. It is not to make you feel good or bad about yourself or the match you just played. Its only purpose at the end of the day is to find you a roughly even match. If you're had a close match where survivors are hooked multiple times and one or two just barely escaped, this is a good thing! The goal in that case is not to raise your MMR anyway and give you tougher matches. You are already in a decent spot where the competition is close. You might gain a little here, lose a little there, but in the end you'll be hovering around that spot until your skill changes on average.
I completely understand that it feels good to have the game say, "Way to go, you did well!" in a scenario like that, but for it to increase your rating when you're already having close matches would be a failure on its part and only lead to more frustrating matches where you are outclassed. The only goal for the system is to keep you in that close match sweet spot where you're comfortable, nothing more.
Has there ever been an official statement on whether or not gate escapes are worth 0 MMR, if the survivors haven’t repaired all the generators, and the only reason why the gates are powered is because hatch was closed by the killer?
Or more importantly, can killers lose MMR if the last survivor escapes out of a gate, if the survivors haven’t repaired all the generators, and the only reason why the gates are powered is because hatch was closed by the killer?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662180#Comment_3662180
that what i assume as well. massive nerf to slugging, some buff attempts to incentive hooking. Something like Sadako's lock-in condemn on hook. that type of change.
Honestly, I would be happy with they would just allow Victor be recalled earlier, so people aren't purposely just running around with Victor because they think it's fun to force the killer to be stuck as an M1 killer for extended periods of time.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661750#Comment_3661750
So judging from Sadako "rework" to remove slugging, I think twin slugging is going to be removed because it is unfun for the survivor. The biggest thing makes twins slug currently hold-w by survivor when using victor. If the survivor is running forward and is 30 second away from being pick-up, the chase could be 10 second long but if chalotte has to walk 30 second to pick-up survivor and spend 10-15 second to hook the survivor, a 10 second chase is 55 second chase. there is lack of killer time efficiency in twin's general kit gameplay style that needs to be resolved for Twins to not slug.
Alternatively, they could make bleed out slugging more effective so then twins does not need to hook as much and naturally wins by successfully down survivors over time. I do not think that this will happen for twins.
Overall, I do not think Twin will be a popular killer because they are not a forgiving killer to play. Missing with Victor then getting kicked is like playing an arcade game at level 30 and you go back to level 1.
Considering what BHVR did to Sadako and Pig, I think it’s safe to assume that when BHVR says they want to address slugging on Twins, that Twins will get a massive nerf to slugging, might get a few weak buffs, and will be overall much worse off than before.
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@AssortedSorting said:
The Heartbeat is a directionless audio effect designed to be heard with audible clarity. It adds to the atmosphere of the game “The Killer is coming, run/hide. You’ll need to hunt for the Survivors”. And whose skillful comprehension is simple: do I hear it or not. A UI element that turns on and off based on the presence of the heartbeat is simple.
Breathing/footstep audio is a different beast. It’s a directional audio effect requiring spatial reasoning to estimate the source. It’s inconsistent and can be drowned out by chase music and ability use, significantly modified by materials stepped on and distance. Skillful comprehension of this is more about competitive play, not simply entry. It and things like scratch marks/blood adds to the atmosphere of the game through a lack of precision allowing survivors the possibility to escape a chase through erratic movement.
This UI element would not be simple. And equating it to The Heartbeat is disingenuous.
Games are allowed to have accessibility changes, even if they affect game balance.
The whole point of accessibility, is that the changes are made for the greater good, and the game can be rebalanced afterwards if needed.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661505#Comment_3661505
If people really want they can safely crank their voulme with an audio compressor. A compressor reduces the volume difference between the loudest parts and the quietest parts of an audio signal. Essentially, when the volume goes above a certain level, the entire volume is reduced. This allows you to crank as much as you want but as soon as loud sounds start playing itll quiet everything. It's fairly common practice in escape from tarkov, if you google tarkov audio compressor you can find guides on how to set it up and just tweak your settings for DBD
And survivors could have done that with the terror radius. And BHVR made a visual terror radius anyway.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661523#Comment_3661523
Th terror radius does not get affected by walls around it and what not, which makes it probably easier to implement. Besides that I still don't think it is a good idea from a gameplay standpoint.
Again, it doesn’t matter if something is easier to implement. I’m sure BHVR could figure out how to make visual footsteps work if they wanted to.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661505#Comment_3661505
Such a health danger is people's own choice though... They have autonomy over that and I don't think that is an argument for anything.
Besides that the word "audible" is hard to define in this context, because not only is sound very inconsistent, depending on the map, walls and certain other aspects, but also in the sense of just because something produces a noise, does not mean you would hear it... Same goes for the terror radius technically... I think the visual is much more clearer than it's audible counterpart.
It doesn't matter if it's hard to define. If BHVR can figure out how to make it work with terror radius noises, they should be able to figure out how to make it work with footstep noises.
The sound occlusion code should actually have the sound volumes for footsteps, and BHVR could say if it's above a certain threshold, then the visual footsteps can happen. And even if the visual terror radius is more clearer than its audible counterpart, we've been told it's fine, and I don't see survivors complaining that they've been given too much information.
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@Archol123 said:
I mean don't get me wrong, I hate to play against stealthy survivors, because I really don't like that hide and seek gameplay... But that is a little bit too much... It is completely fine if the survivors is able to lose you via great pathing or corner tech or whatever...
If you add those things you make the stealth playstyle impossible and you make spirit very easy to play... I mean just follow the visual sound cue...
The visual footsteps can just appear if the footsteps should have been audible to the killer.
…Just like how the visual terror radius is supposed to work. The current footstep noises can cause a health danger, because some people have been setting their game volume to extreme levels, just to give them the maximum chances of hearing faint noises like footsteps.
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I reported this issue something like 9 months ago, and it’s been under review for something like 2 months????????
Why hasn’t this gotten a BHVR comment yet?
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659960#Comment_3659960
The "convoluted" part of your system is NOT that you gain different points based on your opponent's MMR. That part is obviously normal, it's how MMR works.
The convoluted part is that you want to intentionally match people with different MMRs against each other, in order to achieve a 60% killrate through unbalanced matchmaking. That theory is already convoluted, but on top of this, the problem is, as I said, that you have a problem with hatch. If all the devs cared about was the killrate, then a hatch escape should be worth the same as a door escape. But we know that hatch is worth 0, so we know your system is not what is in the game. Just try it, choose an example value for Z and you'll see it doesn't work. What if the survivors escape through hatch 10% of the time? What if they escape 50% of the time? Your Z value wil be different for both cases, so you'd have to know and track the whole playerbase's hatch escape rate to constantly adjust Z.
Who cares if it’s convoluted? If BHVR wants a 60% kill rate, and MMR is averaging a 60% kill rate, then MMR is doing what BHVR wants it to do.
And the new stats shows that MMR is doing what BHVR wants it to do.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659693#Comment_3659693
1) No definitive proof since I don't work at BHVR, but strong evidence, yes. Your system could theoretically work but it is way too convoluted. We know that MMR gains are symmetric +20 / -20, that the initial MMR system from 2021 was tuned for 50% killrate, and that Peanits has NEVER mentioned something like what you're suggesting, given all these elements my explanation is way more likely than yours.
2) don't understand what you mean here, but not my job to "prove" anything. I don't work at BHVR, how exactly do you expect me to prove to you that their MMR works in X or Y way? Besides, you're making the more convoluted claim here, so it should be your task to prove this claim, not mine to prove that it's wrong.
For 3) you're wrong, because we know that a hatch escape is worth 0 MMR, that has been confirmed several times by Peanits, and that will screw your system. For example, let's pick your example with a 1600 MMR killer playing against survivors at 1400 MMR. Let's say he plays against 100 survivors, in scenario A) he kills 60 of them, and 40 escape through the doors. In scenario B) he kills 60 survs, 20 escape through the doors, 20 escape through hatch. With your suggested system you only look at the killrate (60%) so the killer should stay at the same MMR after the games in both scenarios. In reality we know that's not true, a killer will gain a lot more MMR in scenario A).
We don't know how many MMR points every kill or escape is worth. Telling me that players can gain or lose up to Z MMR per game, doesn't help at all with telling us what percentage of Z each player is gaining or losing.
And telling me it's "way too convoluted" doesn't work. There are competitive games out there, where we get to see our MMR, and we get to see how many MMR points we gain or lose every game...... and we can clearly see we aren't gaining or losing the same amount of MMR points each game. Some games scale the MMR gain/loss points depending on how higher or lower the other players' MMR scores compared to you. And I think BHVR directly told us that DBD's MMR cares how different a player's MMR is compared to their opponents, which isn't really convoluted at all because that's how the chess ELO (chess' version of MMR) formula works.
Some games have a second "MMR" score, that tells the game "what it feels" the player should be at, and it will adjust MMR gains and losses to make it easier to reach that second "MMR" score. For example, if a player is at 1,500 MMR, and has a second "MMR" score of 1,700, then it will reduce the number of MMR points that player loses, because the player is going in "the wrong direction" in comparison to their second "MMR" score. This also means that if the player is having a bad day, and has a loss streak, their MMR score might not go down very much. It also means that if a player somehow throws a bunch of games on purpose to lower their MMR (and somehow doesn't get caught or punished), their MMR score won't go down as much.
In DBD, we also don't even know how many points the last survivor is worth. If a killer slugs for a 4k, do they actually get a lot more MMR points, than a killer that just takes a 3k and doesn't care if the 4th survivor gets hatch? If there are generators left that need to be repaired, and the killer closes hatch, and then the 4th survivor escapes through the gate, is that even worth any MMR points, or does DBD consider that as functionally being a hatch escape because the survivor team didn't repair all the generators?
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658830#Comment_3658830
They can do it, but they haven't done it. It has been datamined that one kill gives you up to +20 MMR, one escape -20 MMR, and hatch 0 MMR. Since the numbers are symmetric, it's pretty clear that MMR aims at a 50% winrate.
Besides, I doubt it's as easy as you think. First there is a problem with hatch: a hatch escape counts as half a win for MMR but as 0 for killrate, then to achieve a 60% killrate, the target winrate for MMR should not be 60%, but more around 65-70%, and this starts to become very unbalanced. Touching MMR algorithm is also a pretty dangerous thing to do, since any wrong change to the formula might break balance for the whole playerbase. Maybe I'm underestimating them, but I think they just kept the previous MMR from 2021, noticed the killrate became 60% after balance changes, and decided that this was a good result so let's not touch anything.
None of that is proof of anything.
1) There is zero proof that MMR tries to match survivors and killers to the same MMR number. For example, if BHVR wanted to tilt the kill rate to the killer's favor, they might do something like match a 1,600 MMR killer with 1,400 MMR survivors... or pick whatever imbalanced match usually averages to a 60% win rate.
2) There is zero proof that it's symmetrically easy for survivors and killers to raise or lower their MMR by X amount.
3) There isn't a problem with hatch. BHVR said their goal is 60% kill rate. That's it. We don't need to worry about how often survivors get hatch, or how that affects win rates.