Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681215#Comment_3681215
I mean, there's nothing a solo survivor CAN do that's on the same level as camping and tunneling.
The game is asymmetric, it takes a coordinated party of four to match up to the killer.
This was never about both sides of the game being considerate to each other. This was always about just shaming one side of the game, and expecting only one side of the game to show consideration for their opponents.
And that is why all the complaints about killers being inconsiderate and unemphatic, are all total garbage. It's just one-sided expectations.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681087#Comment_3681087
The offerings are currently kill switched and tbh they are not likely to have any changes made to them, we've increased the BP and will have an extra bonus login reward out shortly to make up for the issue with the Event offerings.
Can the event offerings be removed from the blood web if they will always be worse than a yellow rarity +25% bloodpoint addon?
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681204#Comment_3681204
Camping and tunneling right at the start of the game?
Yes. That is something that any killer could easily do in any game.
But your example for survivors is a super specific example, that requires a full SWF with 16 meta perks, and are using specific items.
How is that a fair comparison? Where are the examples of “unnecessary survivor gameplay” that any survivor could easily do, even if they were playing solo?
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681069#Comment_3681069
My post was merely an example as goes entirely for both sides.
SWF running 4 meta perks with BNPs and flashlight is equally unnecessary most of the time.
Your comparison is bad, because your requirements for “unnecessary survivor gameplay” is extremely specific and restrictive, but your requirements for “unnecessary killer gameplay” is something that any killer could easily do in any game.
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The event offerings are still sort of useless because they don’t have a BP bonus, and I’d rather run a +25% BP offering than an event offering.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680992#Comment_3680992
I don't feel forced to do any of it. If someone does feel forced, that suggests they feel they have to win at any cost and can't accept losing a fair number of games.
For example, I and many others don't have a problem when the killer camps or tunnels at end game to secure a kill, that is someone who is simply doing what they can to win what they can.
The problem arises when killers camp or tunnel as the default from the start of that game. That's not someone who is reacting against the odds, that's simply someone who wants to be as powerful at possible with no consideration for the other side or the balance of that game. People who want to 'win more' when they're already winning, kicking survivors when they're already down. That's the power fantasy rearing it's head.
Most of the time it's entirely unnecessary, and you could win without resorting to cheap tactics. But if you camp and tunnel as default because you believe you're "forced to", then you're never going to have the chance to see the games that you would have won without doing so.
Camping or tunneling at the start of the game, is just someone trying to win a video game. This is a PvP game, and people are allowed to try to win a PvP game.
And the whole “consideration for the other side” argument is completely invalid, because we still don’t have a list of things survivors should do out of consideration for killers.
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You’re supposed to stun a killer when they have a droplet, but you don’t have a droplet.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680610#Comment_3680610
Let alone that this does not work if the Killer in question is playing Nurse. So a Map with way more pallets than usual. Great. And now?
For Nurse, super boost the amount of line of sight breakers, and add lots of fire barrels or other things that make obnoxious noises. For Blight, super boost the broken collision objects, and the special loops that Blight can't slide on at all.
There are things BHVR could do, regardless if you think they are perfect. And it's certainly better than doing nothing.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680303#Comment_3680303
So just make the match impossible to win? Yea I’m sure everyone would be fine with that….
I'm not saying "make the match impossible to win". What I am saying is that if a killer's win rate is way higher than average, because matchmaking is constantly matching them with survivors that are way below their MMR, that the game should adjust the map generation, to make the matches more fair for the survivors.
Because it's currently not fair for survivors that are barely at the soft cap, to be matched with killers that are way above their MMR.
Edit: Yes, there would probably need to be some math involved. If the map generation is adjusted to favor the survivors, then the survivors wouldn't gain as much MMR if they won, and the killer wouldn't lose as much MMR if they lost.
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I’m surprised BHVR doesn’t have special code for super high MMR.
With this idea, MMR works as normal, but when a killer’s MMR starts getting way above the soft cap, the game starts stacking the map generation against them. Maybe it’s extra pallets, maybe it’s extra jungle gyms, or maybe it’s super far apart generators.
This would allow the queue times to remain the same, and would still give additional difficulty to the players that are way above the MMR soft cap.
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BHVR released the Top 5% MMR stats a while ago, and Huntress was underperforming there too.
We have a major game problem, where most killer tier lists are based off of 6000+ hour competitive players, and doesn’t represent public games at all. In the public games we are in, regardless of our MMR, Huntress was underperforming.
Huntress needed buffs, because she got nerfed by the map updates that added a lot more line of sight breakers to the maps.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679505#Comment_3679505
Then 60% kill rate is intended by Devs, why complain 60% kill rate is not 60% win rate?
Suddenly 40% win rate matter as long as its on killer side?
60% kill rate isn’t a 60% win rate, because killers win on a 3k or 4k.
In a perfect world, survivors would have a win condition that was team based. But we don’t live in a perfect world.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677032#Comment_3677032
2K count as lose on killer but 2 wins as survivor is a weird take for me.
First, if count survivors as a team:
- 1K is a lose for killer. Win for survivors, means that one survivor still have to see that match as winning.
- 2K is a tie, side A (survivors) and side B (killer) have the same score: 2
- 3K is a win for killer. Lose for survivors, that one able to escape doesnt matter, because they lose.
Second, if count survivors escape as individual wins:
- Those 2 survivors escaped still have their average win rate of 40% in general. Which still lose more than win.
The math counting "there are 4 survivors so their win rate is multiple by 4" is flawed in both the math and logic itself. Why should I see Dwight and Meg escaped as 2 wins for me while I died?
1) Survivor wins count as individual wins.
2) This means the survivor escape rate and survivor win rate are both 40%.
3) 40% is the intended escape rate, that BHVR directly told us they want the game to have.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/408489/disappointing-blood-moon
I think it starts with 50% doesn't it? The event implies it, but i definitely don't feel like i'm getting 50% more.
The max bonus is +200%????? Wow, this event is absolutely garbage when compared to the anniversary event.
So I guess I should just wait for the bonus to reach 200% before starting the event? I don’t want to be stuck dealing with base kit iron will, unless I’m getting a huge amount of bloodpoints as compensation.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
...the point of the event is that we're playing towards an increasing BP bonus. It's 50% right now, but from what I can tell it's gonna go up to 200 or higher as the event progresses.
It’s going to need to be way higher than 200%, if it’s supposed to be “by far the best event for BPs”. During anniversary events, when all 5 players bring cakes, it’s +500%!
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679132#Comment_3679132
This is a super interesting point. I wonder how much of it is the streamers themselves saying "I'm not having fun if I'm not winning" and how much of it is the viewer base for killer content wanting to only ever see winning games - I would assume it varies greatly based on the community but the breakdown would be interesting
It’s like that for other games too. In the more competitive games, some of the streamers will either avoid the most competitive game mode, or will use an alt account, so they are playing games that are much easier than their skill level.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3678927#Comment_3678927
If you actually watch a blight playing hard core to win including the 1k+ winstreak person you mentioned you would see they very seldom use the hug tech, only on tiles where it's required to make them playable with the power. That in itself proves how counterable it is, if it had no counterplay someone aiming for such an immense streak would be constantly using it. Any comp blight gameplay would show you the exact same.
Blights creator actually wanted blight to slide on quite a few things when the blight wanted to, something called the scoot slide but not the hug tech. Although he accepted the hug tech as being a fair thing until he could fix blights collision on a base level, but he left before doing so. A different person came in and randomly commented on the topic 2 years ago now that the hug tech was not intended but as you've seen it's probably far harder to fix blights collision or collision in general than not.
There is genuine counter play to the hug tech as someone who up until a year ago mained killer and at that blight, but now mains survivor. From both perspectives counterplay is possible.
Weskers tech was literally reverted if I am not mistaken because he felt horrible too play without it.
Onis was "capped" but people found a movement to bypass that cap. That was before I started playing years ago and with no statements and immense counterplay vs a very fair killer it's fine.
I still think the scoot slide is the most ridiculously named thing in the history of DBD.
The Blight dev literally told everyone that he added a secondary collision system for Blight, and that players should literally aim their camera downwards, to see how it affects what Blight slides off of……. And then a steamer slides off of something while looking downwards, and now it’s a tech named after that streamer??????
For reals?
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@hermitkermit said:
I don’t understand how stats like this can exist and still not be enough for people to think that the game isn’t as balanced as it should be.
MMR used to be super strict, and I don’t remember any large win streaks happening at that time. In fact, the Nurse win streak streamer couldn’t get large win streaks either, and I think that person pretty much stopped streaming.
In fact, a lot of the killer streamers stopped streaming killers, and either switched to survivor, or just stopped streaming DBD. It didn’t help that some of these streamers had massive queue times, which wasn’t good for streaming content, as they risked losing streamers out of boredom.
Then BHVR purposely made MMR less strict, and purposely made the queue times less. And then the win streaks came back, and the Nurse streamer came back too.
But a lot of killers streamers never came back, or they’re still streaming a lot of survivor content. Many people made it clear, that if they can’t win most of their killer games, that they’d just rather not stream.
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The short forced M1 attack bug, that can steal hits from the killer, will forbid a killer from lunging if the game decides the killer is “too close” to a survivor. In this scenario, you are forced into making short M1 attacks because you are close to an hooked survivor, and you are forbidden from lunging around the hooked survivor.
In addition, aim assist can forcibly yank your camera towards a hooked survivor.
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Hag's addons still feel underwhelming:
1) I think we need -30% trigger range to stop people from doing the "run at the trap while looking away from you" thing, which means we're always using the green rarity trigger range addon, or we're stuck using the yellow + brown rarity trigger range addons... which doesn't feel good. If BHVR doesn't want to actually remove the "run at the trap while looking away from you" thing, then I wish something would be changed so that the yellow rarity -trigger range addon was enough to stop this, so that we aren't stuck burning through bloodwebs for a very specific green rarity addon.
2) The +setting speed addons feel bad, because setting a trap has 3 phases, and these addons only affect 1 of these phases. The game feels so much faster now, than it did when Hag was first released, and Hag's trap setting speed is so slow that it's a relic of long ago DBD.
3) Teleport range still feels bad. How can BHVR tell us they don't want killers to find a 3 gen, and defend it the entire game, but still force Hag to have such a low teleport range that she's sort of stuck just defending one side of the map, if she wants her traps to always be active.
4) Hag being 4.4 is kind of garbage in modern DBD, considering that she often has 0 chase power if the survivor runs to an area with no traps. And if the survivor isn't stuck at a specific loop, then trying to set a trap mid chase just causes the survivor to run away, which means Hag is still not really using her chase power (unless there is a really obnoxious loop that Hag would rather run away from immediately). Can we just make her 4.6, then figure out whatever buffs/nerfs need to happen to balance it out? Trying to run around pallet loops as a 4.4 killer feels bad, if the survivor is really good at hugging the loop.
TD;LR I still don't feel like Hag is worth playing in modern DBD. And yes, there was a time period in this game, where I thought Hag was really good. But that was long ago.
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I don't understand why BHVR announced the map was getting changes... and then did the bare minimum effort, to make as few changes as possible.
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The map is still too red. Red scratchmarks, red pools of blood, and red auras, need to be much brighter and vibrant on this map, so the red map isn't a massive killer nerf the entire game.
Alternately, give killers the ability to pre-set aura colors per map, so we aren't stuck seeing red on red.
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The map is still too red. Red scratchmarks, red pools of blood, and red auras, need to be much brighter and vibrant on this map, so the red map isn't a massive killer nerf the entire game.
Alternately, give killers the ability to pre-set aura colors per map, so we aren't stuck seeing red on red.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675643#Comment_3675643
The difference in these two situations you described though are player agency. The scenario you outlined gives the survivors no options other than to just sit on the floor and bleed out for 4 minutes, it doesn't matter how long they run the killer in this scenario as there's no legitimate way to progress the game since the other survivor is also on the floor.
Even in a scenario with a full on bully squad that does not intend on progressing the game through doing their objective, the killer player still has agency, still has counterplay options, and can still progress the game forward for themselves. They can slug, they can play around the flashlights / sabo plays, they hook, camp, tunnel, etc.
This is not a fair comparison IMO.
In the scenario I'm suggesting, the killer is purposely forcing survivors to wiggle off their shoulder, so they can lose yet another chase. If a killer just lets survivors bleed out on the ground, that isn't bullying, because there are often situations where the killer can't reliably hook all the slugged survivors.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675529#Comment_3675529
are any of these arguments wrong tho? the killer equivalent to a bully squad would be insidious camping a basement or something. not strong or efficient in any way, but designed to be miserable for one person
I don't think insidious camping is the killer equivalent to a bully squad, because it's still progressing the game, and the killer is using insidious with the intent of wanting to kill more survivors in the basement. The killer equivalent to a bully squad would be doing something like killing 2 survivors, then purposely slugging the last 2 survivors, letting one of them wiggle off their shoulder, then slugging them again, then letting one of them wiggle off their shoulder, and repeat. The killer in this scenario is clearly not trying to progress the game at all, and is purposely extending the game, with the primary goal of bullying the survivors.
Because the obnoxious thing about bully squads, is they are purposely extending the game so they can bully the killer for a longer time. If a SWF keeps hitting a killer with flashlight saves or flashbang saves, but the other survivors are trying to repair generators, then it's not a bully SWF even though what they are doing is unfun for the killer. A SWF only becomes a bully SWF when they are purposely delaying the game from progressing, because they want to spend more time doing things they know are unfun for the killer.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675299#Comment_3675299
Oh yeah, bm-ing and calling names in post-match lobbies against an obviously nice playstyle with gradual 8-hooking before even trying to kill anyone are absolutely and utterly nonexistent.
The post I was responding to:
Most survivors don’t care if the strategies they do are unfun for killers, so why should killer care if the strategies they do are unfun for survivors?
Same goes for bully squads with tons of flashlights who locker stun the killer not for the sake of a save or slowing the killer down in a chase (the latter's kinda mean, but not unacceptable), but for the sake of making the killer feel miserable and feeling better at their expense. Totally not something happening in this game.
And how many complaints are there about bully squads, in comparison to the complaints about 'gens going too fast'?
Killers don't complain about bully squads, they complain about Sally Soloqueue not holding on to the gen until the killer gets a free hit, or Simon Sub10hours working on a gen with no perks, items or add-ons to speed it up.
If killers complained about bully squads as much as they did 'gen tunnelling', we'd have BHVR working on some kind of fix for it right now, with how attentive they've been to killer complaints lately. But for some reason, bully squads fly under the radar until it's time to 'but muh bully squads' on a thread complaining about tunnelling.
Which is extra aggravating because bully squads do actually need to get addressed.
If I remember correctly, we sometimes do have someone from BHVR respond to complaints about bully squads....
Unfortunately, the official responses are usually something like "it's fine because they aren't repairing generators", or "it's fine because I only see really good bully SWFs like once a month", or "it's fine because I like it when survivors are being overly altruistic".
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675038#Comment_3675038
I dont stack meta as survivors and I play Solo 99% of the time, and thats enough, if killer can not kill me and my teammates finish Gens behind thats on killer's fault to make mistakes, or thats my fault to not give killer a free hook?
No, that's not anywhere near enough compensation. Tunneling can often be a massive game advantage, and asking killers to avoid tunnelling is a huge thing to ask. BHVR revealed that for the vast majority of the players, being solo doesn't really affect kill rate. And not stacking meta doesn't mean much to me, as all the survivor perks I complain about are largely considered non-meta.
And if your attitude is that killers don't need to tunnel, because the game is pushed towards a 60% kill rate, then the same applies to survivors. Survivors don't need to ever try to flashlight save, or hook sabo, or excessively hide, or use voice communications specifically for game advantages... because they'll be near a 40% escape rate regardless of what they do. And therefore, survivors can easily avoid doing things that killers think is unfun, because they'll "have the same escape results" regardless of what they do.
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@mizark3 said:
I think Strength in Shadows is largely fine, most people complaining about it aren't taking the travel time into the equation. Most times it would be better to just bring Self-Care or a Med-Kit and BTL for reloads and that would be more time efficient.
Wicked is neat, but largely unimpressive. If it allowed a single basement self-unhook regardless of hook state then it would be much better, but as is, its mediocre at best.
Weaving Spiders is so cool in theory, but not in practice. This is the only perk I care about as it is a new mechanic, so replies to other thoughts on WS are found below.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673301#Comment_3673301
Weaving Spiders is so pathetic that I'm surprised it got nerfed before hitting live.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673316#Comment_3673316
-10s on all gens for 120s isn't worth it even in the best case scenario (all 7 for 70). The problem is the perk isn't time efficient AND it has a massive drawback on top of it. The current version of the perk is only good for people being tunneled, then lost in chase (somehow), then hiding in basement doing the invocation for the rest of the match.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673321#Comment_3673321
Weaving Spiders - I like this idea for a penalty, as you could do it on death hook for no penalty, but the Killer has a free basement kill if they find you. Alternatively have the Invocation duration also be the Broken duration, so if people co-oped it they also help you be broken for less time.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673439#Comment_3673439
This is the only criticism of Invocations I've heard that makes valid points. For Killer it will always be a nuisance factor, and strict nuisance factors for the opposition shouldn't be encouraged. They very well could end up mostly being used by bad actors as troll perks, like Knockout or No Mither (to troll your team).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673465#Comment_3673465
WS - That was what I was expecting when people asked for it to be permanent. Bizarre they had to slap such a massive penalty on a perk with such a massive downside.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673718#Comment_3673718
I'm of two minds on this one. I can see the nuisance factor Coffeecrashing brought up (see two replies above), and this would help mitigate that on the Killer's end. At the same time if someone sees a soloq teammate doing this, get interrupted, then try it again later, they're probably going to ragequit to leave that 3v2. Maybe a hybrid system with 25% checkpoints would be fine, or alternatively dropping the time down to 60s (with the current 10s/gen).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673900#Comment_3673900
It should probably just give you the 7k Escape Survival BP on completion. You are basically killing yourself by using the perk, so it should just give you the benefit of what you are denying yourself. The BP category already has difficulties reaching the full 10k, so this could also help in that respect.
The bigger problem is what happens in the future, if there are more invocation perks? This one invocation perk might be underwhelming by itself, but if the game eventually has 4 invocation perks, then it might be worth stacking invocation perks. And it certainly might be obnoxious for the killer if all 4 invocation perks activate at the same time.
I honestly don't know how BHVR could ever balance multiple invocation perks existing at the same time, unless they aren't allowed to be stacked.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674581#Comment_3674581
Wow this was a hell of a turn around for accusations. I'd leave the chat too, C3.
While its not your problem others aren't having fun, it is BHVR's. You ruining the game for others and knowing it just shows a bit of personality type and lack of empathy for your fellow gamer. Thats totally fine btw, we are who we are.
Tunneling will be dealt with because they are a company. YOUR responsibility doesn't really matter. Respect is cool, but not necessary. Playing a game is supposed to be fun, but its not necessary. And i don't even know why you threw out that last bit about the 60/40 kill rate. If you truly think thats what any of this is all about, then yeah, definitely nothing more to talk about here lolol.
Tunneling has nothing to do with empathy or respect. It involves trying to win a video game. It's an unrealistic expectation, to believe killers should purposely make bad game decisions for the sake of survivors, when there's absolutely zero reciprocation on the survivor side. And if people honestly think tunneling is ruining their gameplay experience, then they are being unrealistic.
And I threw in the 60/40 kill rate, because that forum member literally made an entire post to complain about the 60/40 rule, and complained about awful survivors feel now, and specifically mention that survivors used to have a higher escape rate. And all the talk in this thread regarding how it's "unnecessary" for killers to tunnel, all revolves around the fact that regardless of killers tunnel, they still have a 60% kill rate, and therefore it's "unnecessary" for killers to do things that survivors think is unfun, because a 60% kill rate is still in the killers' favor.
@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674581#Comment_3674581
The difference between you and me is:
- I care about survivors' fun when playing killer, thats why I put hard rule of not tunneling in the first place, even if I made great mistakes, thats my fault I should lose, not tunnel to make up for the mistakes. So I want to have the same fun when playing as survivors and complain about tunneling.
- You dont care about survivors no matter what skill they are, even against newbie (hard tunnel at 5 Gen is perfectly acceptable). While complain about survivors playing well in chase efficient on Gens because that affect your fun.
Your mindset is not "Your fun is not my responsibility", but "Its my fun to make you miserable"
And I noticed you never said "I care about killers' fun when playing survivor. Because that's my entire point. Where are your hard rules you follow when you play survivor, that you do for the sake of killers' fun?????
Why should killers care at all about "empathy" and "kindness", when survivors clearly don't have a list of strategies they avoid doing out of empathy for killers?
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674546#Comment_3674546
Guess you refuse to understand my point, I leave this conversation.
I understand your point. But I also think your point is wrong. Your fun isn’t my responsibility.
And let’s just get to the actual issue here. You’re upset that BHVR wants the kill rate to be around 60%, and many of your recent complaints revolve around this. You’re upset that the kill rate used to be lower than 60%, and BHVR raised the kill rate.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674422#Comment_3674422
Im saying this again.
Its unnecessary to tunnel lower skill teams, or even equal skill teams. You will mostly get at least 3K in the end with hatch escape. Those are who complain about tunneling.
Those who you are complaining toward are high skill teams, they dont complain about tunneling, they ASK you to tunnel them then run you for 5 Gens and escape.
No. I’m complaining to survivors of any skill level. I’m complaining about a double standard, where killers are expected to avoid certain strategies for the sake of survivor fun, but survivors aren’t expected to avoid certain strategies for the sake of killer fun.
People don’t care that you personally think tunneling at 5 generators is unnecessary. That’s just an arbitrary one-sided rule. And it doesn’t matter if something is necessary or unnecessary either, because it’s part of the game.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674399#Comment_3674399
I have a recorded of 20# match, you can scroll down in the topic to see the vid.
I mostly meme around when playing killer (means I was probably in low MMR), only start playing serious with 50 matches challenge as Myers, early matches I totally dominate survivors, then the game starts to get harder.
There are alot of RNG in play that affect both sides, and we have to accept that.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674388#Comment_3674388
Then the first chase cost 5 Gens and 4 escape isnt sweaty, so stop complaining.
Where is your list of “unnecessary” “sweaty” survivor strategies, that are unfun for killers, that survivors should avoid doing?
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Part of the map has an awful super saturated green filter, that is a relic of the past map designs.
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Lockers shouldn’t spawn in narrow walkways, where it’s impossible to avoid the lockers while chasing a survivor. It just encourages coordinated head-on SWFs to purposely send killers to this map, so they can see how many times they can head-on the killer.
And the main building for this map is filled with unavoidable lockers.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674335#Comment_3674335
Yes, some killers dont care about survivors' experiment, so do some survivors.
But for the most part:
- The survivors that get bad gameplay experiment are the one that casual and newbie. High skilled survivors dont complain on tunneling (those who you're complaining toward).
- The killers that get bad gameplay experiment are the one that sweaty to pull everything to 4K against casual and newbie at 5Gen remain (those who has mindset of tunneling at 5 Gens is perfectly acceptable for example) to gain unnecessary MMR to play against high skilled survivors - who are welcome killers to tunnel them.
Tunneling at 5 gens isn’t sweaty, and wanting to 4K isn’t sweaty either. You’re just trying to shame people for trying to win. It also doesn’t matter if killers are doing things you think are “unnecessary”.
The reason why people don’t care, is because this is always just a one-sided expectation. Where is your list of “unnecessary” “sweaty” survivor strategies, that are unfun for killers, that survivors should avoid doing?
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674090#Comment_3674090
If killers get an early hook, its a huge advantage to killers. That happen either by the first survivor's mistake, or the team's skill is lower than killer.
At that point, tunneling at 5 Gens is already no more necessary. With fair play against equal skill team, killers still have a high chance for at least 3K even if 5 Gens done. Or 4K / hatch escape if the team's skill is worse.
But here, defend tunneling at 5 Gens when killers already in the lead and have a high chance for winning again equal team or even worse team. That proves "balance around 12 hooks and killers will play fair" do not work. Thank you for the confirming.
Tunneling at 5 gens is perfectly acceptable.
Most survivors don’t care if the strategies they do are unfun for killers, so why should killer care if the strategies they do are unfun for survivors?
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The chase music still sounds like a broken washing machine. I hate this music so much. Words cannot describe how awful and terrible I think this music is.
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@Slowpeach said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673583#Comment_3673583
The reason for less people complaining about large gen spread is that it’s still possible for the killer to win. Harder to be sure yes but doable. A good game can still be had, one sided maybe but it’s over quickly and done with and everyone moves on. Close gen spread is incredibly tedious to go against if the killer decides to take advantage and the game goes on forever. Neither is good but if we have to chose a lesser evil, far is better.
Too early to say on this map. Haven’t even played it against non bot opponents yet. Like it a lot aesthetically and it seems okay. No extremely obvious spots like Garden of Joy or Haddonfield. At least that I remember. Didn’t even play that much on PTB tbh.
BHVR could fix generators that spawn too close together AND fix generators that spawn too far apart... and both can be fixed at the same time. There isn't a "we need to choose one or the other". Both can easily happen at the same time.
Many people don't want the game to be balanced on both sides. That's the real reason way less people complain about generators that are too far apart. People want killer to be punished if they don't want to patrol the full map... but they also want generators to spawn so far apart that it's not realistic to patrol the full map. It's so sad.
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The map is way too big, and more importantly, the generators can spawn way too far apart from each other, considering there is a huge main building with lots of resources to extend chases.
I see so many people complain when generators spawn too close together.... but why does it seem like barely anyone cares when generators spawn so far apart, that it's not realistic to defend them all, and the killer is honestly better off just letting one side of the generators go undefended.
Like, seriously. Does BHVR super honestly expects for killers to do the full patrol of all the unrepaired generators, on this map? Really? That seems realistic for low mobility killers like Pig and Pyramid Head?
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@jasonq500 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673425#Comment_3673425
In what way is pig boring, she still has skill expression to her ambush in this update
I’m still waiting for a YouTube montage, that shows me all the new and exciting hits that Pig can do now, that she couldn’t do before this update.
The vast majority of ambush hits before this update, were just 50/50 guesses at specific pallet loops. 50/50 guesses aren’t impressive, and I eagerly await someone to show me actual guaranteed ambush hits.
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This killer is just Artist 2.0, where the time window to double-shot is often way too small.
As a result, if I was playing this killer, I would just refuse to use the M2 projectile power, unless the survivor was stuck at very specific loops, and I knew I could guarantee a double shot.
So I won’t be playing this killer, because spending most of my time walking around as an M1 killer sounds boring.
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I think invocations are just going to be annoying for the killer. It doesn’t matter how powerful the invocations are, the threat of them will always be there. And if the basement isn’t anywhere near any unfinished generators, then killers would need to greatly increase their patrol path to check on the basement.
In general, invocations are just a “let’s make low mobility killers feel even worse” idea.
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1) Huntress still being 4.4 feels bad, considering that the new map reworks have added a lot of clutter to the maps, that completely block hatchets, that force Huntress to loop around at her slow speed. The buffs Huntress got, doesn’t help the fact that she will still be stuck looping certain high-wall loops over and over, for more loops than a 4.6 killer would need to do.
It would have been better if her movement speed could be updated to 4.6, then some nerf adjustments could be made as compensation.
2) Clown feels like an overall nerf. Losing the heavy intoxication filter is a big nerf (even though the nerf itself was necessary). And Clown’s best addon is now completely useless. And the minor buffs Clown got aren’t proper compensation.
Yellow bottles need to activate 0.5 seconds faster. The current yellow bottle activation time is still awful on cramped indoor maps….. and it’s still awful if we’re chasing a survivor that’s far away, and the survivor changes directions after the bottle is thrown.
3) Pig is now so boring that she’s not worth playing. Now she has traps that are “press a button and that’s it”, and she has an ambush M2 that still takes almost zero skill to use. That’s zero room for skill expression that’s unique to this killer. It’s boring.
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I will not be buying this chapter. The killer is just Artist 2.0, where the time window to double-shot is often way too small. I refuse to play Artist for the same reason.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672670#Comment_3672670
Stats should not be the focal point of balance changes. If this was the case Nurse would be getting buff after buff every patch. This Huntress change could have and should have simply been adding more lockers to maps that are sparse with them as this would buff not only her but Trickster and Dredge as well.
BHVR just needs to make special killer-only lockers, that killers can interact with, but survivors can’t hide in. And then BHVR can add these killer only lockers where they are needed.
It’s the only way to fix the locker problem, without secretly buffing survivors unnecessarily.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671618#Comment_3671618
It's only a fallacy if the authority is irrelevant to the subject being discussed. Disregarding a person's experience and knowledge pertaining to a discussion is equally fallacious.
I wasn’t saying that anyone’s experience should be disregarded. However, we do have a handful of people on these forums that repeatedly mention they main a specific killer, and repeatedly mention they’ve spent an enormous amount of time playing a specific killer, and are expecting their opinions to matter more because of these facts. And it’s not just about Pig, because this happens for a few other killers too.
When people say stuff like “I can’t believe BHVR didn’t listen to us, because we main this killer, and have spent lots of time with this killer”….. that’s a logical fallacy.
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671618#Comment_3671618
Maybe not, but time and practise leads to expertise and knowledge, and there are things like the Dunning-Kruger effect. Someone who doesn't play the character much is more likely to be ignorant of things beyond the surface level due to a lack of experience, and furthermore be unaware of just how much they don't know. This means they are more likely to make flawed assertions about what is best for the character.
Regardless of experience though, we should all strive to remove our bias as much as possible, support our arguments with evidence, and most importantly be willing to listen to and factor in the thoughts and experiences of others to refine our arguments or even change our opinions entirely... but you should also employ reasonable scrutiny, as without scrutiny we poison the well.
If someone makes a well supported argument, only a fool doesn't listen, even if you don't agree, but if you're someone without much experience, there is more onus on you to do your due diligence and ensure your argument is well informed and well supported with evidence if you want to be taken seriously.
We need to stop misusing the word “listening”. BHVR can listen to what a (very small) handful of Pig mains are saying, and still not actually do what the Pig mains want. “Listening” just means spending time, effort, and thought, to the opinions of someone. BHVR can listen to someone, and still not agree with that person’s opinions.
There are too many people that think a person is only “listening” to someone else if they change their opinions to match to whoever they are “listening” to.
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I hope everyone is aware that Appeal to Authority is a logical fallacy. Being very emotionally attached to a specific killer, or spending an enormous amount of time playing a specific killer, doesn’t mean that person understands that killer better than other people. And it certainly doesn’t mean their opinions should count more than other people’s opinions.
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@Mr_K said:
Stricter MMR would mitigate this but then Streamers will complain about every match being sweaty. Which FYI, thats how the SBMM was originally.
Yeah, we used to have way stricter MMR, and streamers complained a lot. And then viewers would watch the streamers get stuck in enormous queue times, and they complained too.
And the killer mains that liked to do long win streaks, couldn’t get long win streaks, and many of them either stopped streaming, or switched to survivor so the viewers wouldn’t see them lose games as killer.
Everyone should be aware large win streaks happen because of the soft cap, that BHVR purposely added to the game. The streamers that are at super high MMR, can be matched to anyone within the soft cap, and the vast majority of the people within the soft cap have way lower MMR than these winstreak streamers.
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I voted “balanced” for all 5 of these maps. Everything on these maps is fine. The new car piles look a bit goofy, but it’s whatever.
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@RhysVMT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670359#Comment_3670359
Not trying to disclaim your points or anything as what you're saying holds validity, but I think basekit free killers like Billy, Huntress, Wraith etc have lower kill rates due to new players picking them up and naturally skewering the statistics due to them naturally not being skilled at the game. BHVR need to look more in depth at statistics rather than pulling up "killrates low = buff" stats. It's the same gripe I have with Riot and balancing League, the devs seem stuck in a cycle of "see low/high WR, buff/nerf as appropriate"
The giant map changes, where way more clutter was added to the maps, which often breaks line of sight, really did affect Huntress a lot. It doesn't matter if she's a free killer, she still got a big performance hit from the map changes.
The map changes are the same reason why Billy and Trickster got buffs, because they were also largely affected by the increased clutter.