Coffee2Go
Coffee2Go
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@k3ijus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991242#Comment_3991242
Do you have any concept of how they will be changing related perks? Or are you just assuming bhvr will just change them accordingly like they say every patch, and having the most miserable meta for a good 3 months?
Also for your 2nd statement your assuming the survivor feels the need to hide away from the killer for the 90s? Are you forgetting that the killer is punished if they hook the same survivor? And heavily punished if the said survivor dies on hook? These changes basically make hooked survivors have a free get out of jail card, with zero counter play for killers. Whats worse is they can also pick themself up, so killers cant just put them in the dying state and move on with their day.
And them saying its being reduced to 4 isnt really impressive as it can be exploited just as it could before.. but good analogy though
The way i see it right now is:
Get a 1st down and a hook → rotate with the BBQ & chilli baseline (+ your own perks and killer ability if any) --> get another down from survivor option B, C , D —> acquiring 2nd hook state on that while the 1st person gets unhooked → upon hooking the person you can see the person that just unhooked aka their aura but not elusive state unhooked person leaving you with --> two options, go for survivor that unhooked or go for the one that was doing other objectives like gens and such —> then you acquire 3rd hook state and maybe even put the original survivor 1st and 2nd in dying state making it 4 or 5 hooks.
That is my best bet they will balance it like that around 4 hook states not 6 because this is way too extreme for entire population of killer rosters.
Generally speaking even if you wont be caught while you are in elusive and trust me to stay in elusive state you will probably only be allowed to recieve heal and not give healing to the other survivor by any means only dropping an item or picking it up.
There is a big chance that survivor can sniff you out by using the survivor aura that was just unhooking you to pin point general area.
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@k3ijus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991237#Comment_3991237
so i wont be able to body block the killer anymore? Aw man :(, its a shame i cant body block whilst stunning and potentially disabling their power,
Also, im fine if i lose the elusive state, with how many buffs i get, and how many debuffs the killer gets for doing their objective, im basically still safe!
And finally, bhvr has a histoty of being vague with how they plan to change perks and absolutely skewing them! I wonder if they will make the 2nd chance perks even better, or make them unusuable. This applies to both sides by the way.
They wont make them unusable, just re-adjusted as they mentioned, think majority wont be getting any rework just adjusted so u cant just stacking them and empowering the whole anti tunnel and slugging.
Yeah so pretty much it will be adjusted so if you do anything special like that you lose all of your protection but still if a killer tries to hook you and kill u before 6 hook states yall get a buff but if they just let u slugged u got 90s to crawl elsewhere before the killer gets another down and comes back for you.
Which is something that will be adjusted too to be 4 hook states most likely to match current grim embrace and pain reso perks
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Its all mentioned in the tiny "dev notes" stating as a whole perk variety will be re-adjusted according to these new changes.
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@k3ijus said:
Survivior main, heard were getting a buff so lets find out how to maximize our advantage early on!!
TUNNELING
when a killer hooks you, make them tunnel you! If they chase you and hook you, they will be punished with not being able to kick gens and survivors get a gen boost, if they dont chase you, feel free to body block them, stun them, or completely negate their power depending on killer, nothing more fun then punishing killers for doing their objective!
SLUGGING
This one is fun, by default killers that rely on snowballing for pressure like twins suck, but lets exploit this more! With these new changes sabo squads will have no counter with us having practically basekit unbreakable. We no longer have to have any risk by using unbreakable, no mither, or anything! and can use the most second chance perks to stun the killer and prevent pick-ups! I think the only counter to this would be for the killer to go afk, or wait 40-50 minutes for all survivors to bleed out!
who else is excited for these changes? I feel it totally makes the game only a little bit killer sided now, and this update totally breaks the win difference between soloq and swf, love the new update!Let me debunk your accusations before they get put in game even.
You wont be able to get bodyblocked you lose collision.
And if you try to sabotage the killer it will remove your elusive state most likely and will be adjusted according to everyone mentioning this and since Ryan and Mandy are both silent means they are collecting all of our opinions.
The 6 hook state will be lowered to 4 hook states and "if a survivor dies by any means before that" will be changed if a survivor dies by their own cause or by other survivor incopetance will be at fault not killer fault.
Also sorry to break it to you but 2nd chances perks are being re-adjusted to match the new changes.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I honestly see no universe where getting an early kill with the killer ability will have any impact. Removing one survivor is still better than having regression, and an early 3v1 is still basically an auto-win.
Maybe I'll be with once we see the changes in action, but I truly think that if people are really worried about triggering the downsides, that this anti tunnel system will do it's job. People will naturally graduate away from hard tunneling early to avoid the penalty.
Yeah thought so too it all depends on how big is this value to repair speed is it 2 or 3% or 6% to 8% or does it stack each time killer tunnel and gets a kill before 6 hook state.
If its 2% the killer will still tunnel it out and get 3v1..
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991184#Comment_3991184
Right, it adds more chances to the chase without them getting hooked.
Someone trying to weaponise DS will, well, fail, that's basically impossible these days unless the killer makes a mistake, but their goal is to avoid being hooked outright (or just to have fun, some people just like baiting stuns). Same with bodyblocking- they do it with Endurance because it allows them to not go down and not have to trade away a hook state.
That's also why bodyblocking has been fixed here. They can absolutely cancel their loss of collision… and their Endurance. They'd just go down here, it stops being to their benefit.All of this is besides the point, though. The point is, trying to weaponise being double-hooked is entirely dependant on how good the bonuses they're denying you getting are. A hook state is a valuable thing to trade, they need to be getting something substantial to make up for it and we don't know if that's actually going to be the case.
It could easily be that the bonuses are nice, and very helpful for the course of regular play, but they're not better than just getting a free hook state.
Worst case scenario they will only weaponize the whole 6 hook state dying before that by any means but that loophole will be patched too.
They wont be able to bodyblock due to no collision
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989981#Comment_3989981
Any smart person who wants to abuse this will run shoulder vigil and intentionally leave people to 2nd stage and slam gens harder than shoulder and the killer gets punished
They will for sure fix this loophole by the time this leaves ptb fully.
Even if not only valid strat is to just let them be down slugged for 90s and rotate and find other surv and come back
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@sinkra said:
Think about it, it means as soon as it gets to 2 survivors it means auto 4k. As soon as killer hooks one they see aura of remaining survivor, so no chance of a save or getting hatch. It means stealth is dead.
As a person above me said.
Get in locker
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991157#Comment_3991157
Incorrect. People currently weaponize anti-tunnel tools because it adds more second chances to the chases. A survivor running at a killer with DS, doesn't actually think they have a guaranteed chase escape after the DS triggers. They know the killer is likely to eventually win the chase.
Likewise, there will be survivors that would absolutely weaponize being double hooked, because if the killer tries to actively avoid killing a survivor before 6 hook, then a double hooked survivor is fairly safe against being killed early. It would basically punish killers that "try to play nice".
And no one literally stopped post-unhook bodyblocking, because the collision removal is temporary. And survivors can purposely remove elusive early if they wanted to. A recently unhooked survivor could tap their medkit before their teammates 100% heal them, to allow the recently unhooked survivor to bodyblock early.
I think they will change 6 hook states into 4 and make it so self sabotage or being avoided to get unhooked and dying under 4 hook states wont count as killers fault.
This will probably require him not entering within proximity of the hooked person and if the game realizes no one even came close and continued doing gens allowing them to die out will also count towards as a normal play
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Oh also keep in mind most of my matches when i play as killer in higher mmr lobbies they will most always rather focus gen when its 2 gens or 3 remaining and there is a survivor on death hook bleeding out and that usually happens at exact 3 hook states.
This will have to be heavily tuned in so people who self sabotage by going next wont trigger the whole perma buff for remaining trial and if they get left to die when people are just focusing gen and killer is busy with chasing one survivor.
I see it a lot in my lobbies
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By the time u reach 6 hooks which means 3 survivors can be morid or sacrificed, the gens will be very much done and the 4v1 pressure still remains in game and 4 or 3 stacked swfs will generally have their full team standing.
Unless u run like blight with meta addons and perks that will oblige the 6 hook state and still upkeeping this
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991116#Comment_3991116
Well, first is we haven't seen any values yet, and literally no one has tested it. So claiming to know how balanced it is right now is simply conjecture and all I have to counter is conjecture.
But honestly 4 seems far too few. It's pretty trivial to hook trade and get to that many, even while tunneling.
This needs to be impactful enough that killers change their play style, even a little bit. Which is why so many people are terrified they won't be able to adapt right now.
It would be way healthier if its value 4 and it goes this direction
First hook → gets unhooked →down the survivor that went for unhook -> injure the one that escaped if you found them → hook them they are on 2nd state → find remaining 2 with mini bbq →let them unhook so its already 3 hook states →hook remaining survivor C that went for unhook -> get ability of now mori final kill without getting penalty and still keeping 3 gen zone
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991116#Comment_3991116
Well, first is we haven't seen any values yet, and literally no one has tested it. So claiming to know how balanced it is right now is simply conjecture and all I have to counter is conjecture.
But honestly 4 seems far too few. It's pretty trivial to hook trade and get to that many, even while tunneling.
This needs to be impactful enough that killers change their play style, even a little bit. Which is why so many people are terrified they won't be able to adapt right now.
Well currently existing killer perks fully reach proc potential at 4 unique hooks which means thats what worked for so many years.
The value 6 is more like a BHVR showing that they are taking matter serious and raw on paper what they came up with.
There are dev notes stating that the changes are not final and bound to change pre ptb and post ptb.
If you ask me value 6 is far fetch and for top killer roster is reachable before 2 or 3 gens pop but weaker end killers will be struggling and left with 1 or 2 gens and wont be able to zone out much as they will struggle on hooking to reach 6 hook states before they can even kill or mori.
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@Inosennatoki said:
If all the killer players uninstall this game.
Every video game eventually dies out and only handfull players remain.
But no these changes most likely will have some stuff changed even before released in PTB or clarified before PTB release.
In PTB devs will see that stuff like 6 hook states and survivor dying before that by any means will be a bit too much, i would settle for 4 hook states and if the player dies without being saved as in a survivor just walks into the hooked survivor or never entered the TR and neither killer for long period of time this wont apply to give them repair speed bonus by self sabotage or being left to die.
Other changes i like so far, they might adjust elusive to be fully stopped when a survivor that got unhooked decides to pick up an item or uses it on them or used on like medkit etc.
So be prepared that elusive will only apply to the unhooked person to gain distance and it gets removed if they heal right on the unhook.
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Think of like a mini prep early game system for trapper, hag any many other to put down their abilities, and just have time to catch them before that 1st gen is popped due to them lacking mobility and not having to rely on running perk slot filled with actual corrupt that wastes a slot and leaving with 3 other slots for PWYF or Coup etc
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So weaker killers wont be forced to run corrupt as waste a perk slot this would be really amazing to synergize with the upcoming reward for haste after hook, so mini pwyf if you wish to call it?
Basically it will be really nice change so survivors cant just pop their 1st gen againts weaker killers, mainly finish like a good chunk of it since start and make it a 50/50 situation.
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@ARIOSODEV said:
I think that labelling this as a "Mini-Corrupt Intervention" is a tiny bit misleading. I was under the impression that you were advocating for a base-kit version of the perk itself, blocking generators, until I re-read the post a few times. Arguably, that's on me, haha.
Anyways, I'm actually not against this idea, on paper. It does help mitigate the long-standing issue of Killers being at their weakest in the early game… But, here's the thing that's bothering me. Let's assume that this was added to the game, and it does help Killers in the early game.
Wouldn't that mean that Killers would then start to struggle in the mid/late-game, instead? Because if survivors can't use their Toolboxes and gen-related perks right off the bat, they're just going to use them whenever it is that they're able to, and if that isn't the early game, then we're just shifting the problem to a different portion of the match.
And while the idea of it deactivating when you get a hit on paper DOES sound appealing, I'm afraid that might open up a lot of other problems. If you're playing a Killer that's slow at the start, like Hag or Trapper, then it might be likely you get hurt even more by this. By the time you finish setting up, the Survivors will gain the ability to start using their perks and items and that's going to hurt these killers even more, because now they sacrifice early game to set up, lose mid game to the block being lifted by this point, and unless they have some sort of build to help them in the late game, or can hold a nasty 3-gen, what do they have at this point?
And the strong killers are unaffected by this. A Blight or a Nurse can easily get the first hit very quickly in a match, rendering this somewhat useless, meaning the Survivors are only mildly inconvenienced at best.
I feel that your mind's in the right place, but the idea might need a bit more fine-tuning in order to really shine. Please do correct me however if I've misinterpreted anything ^^
Regarding top roster killers thats the entire point that for them it will be negligible and they can still run corrupt if they fully want to secure all outer gens and get a hook in their existing 120s lockdown.
This is generally intended as a universal mini corrupt to make it 50/50 as possible equal footing, if by logic they manage to pop a gen with mini corrupt this means the killer did not play right and had no game sense to use those 90s to land a hit and zone out gens
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@ARIOSODEV said:
I think that labelling this as a "Mini-Corrupt Intervention" is a tiny bit misleading. I was under the impression that you were advocating for a base-kit version of the perk itself, blocking generators, until I re-read the post a few times. Arguably, that's on me, haha.
Anyways, I'm actually not against this idea, on paper. It does help mitigate the long-standing issue of Killers being at their weakest in the early game… But, here's the thing that's bothering me. Let's assume that this was added to the game, and it does help Killers in the early game.
Wouldn't that mean that Killers would then start to struggle in the mid/late-game, instead? Because if survivors can't use their Toolboxes and gen-related perks right off the bat, they're just going to use them whenever it is that they're able to, and if that isn't the early game, then we're just shifting the problem to a different portion of the match.
And while the idea of it deactivating when you get a hit on paper DOES sound appealing, I'm afraid that might open up a lot of other problems. If you're playing a Killer that's slow at the start, like Hag or Trapper, then it might be likely you get hurt even more by this. By the time you finish setting up, the Survivors will gain the ability to start using their perks and items and that's going to hurt these killers even more, because now they sacrifice early game to set up, lose mid game to the block being lifted by this point, and unless they have some sort of build to help them in the late game, or can hold a nasty 3-gen, what do they have at this point?
And the strong killers are unaffected by this. A Blight or a Nurse can easily get the first hit very quickly in a match, rendering this somewhat useless, meaning the Survivors are only mildly inconvenienced at best.
I feel that your mind's in the right place, but the idea might need a bit more fine-tuning in order to really shine. Please do correct me however if I've misinterpreted anything ^^
Yeah i hear you and its exactly the point to force mid game to late game outplays, generally this will give ALL killers on roster ability to start zoning out gens in early game and activly patrol as intended while also being rewarded for not tunneling and slugging, constant motion and mobility is what will be rewarded.
If we give this to trapper, hag and many others that rely on m1 hits, trapper for example goes straight to shack if they spawn there, the survivors get like tops 30% done on gen im just raw balling it, by the time he comes he hits a survivor or first hits gen, then survivor, gets some % off of the gen, places traps to secure and get some proper equal footing outplay before that gen popped something he probably couldnt do before unless running actual corrupt as perk slot.
This will also promote non meta perks, (you can still run corrupt obviously if u want to still not allow ANY progress and get it blocked until a down and a hook).
Then we move on to mid game where this will promote skill usage and outplaying survivors or survivors outplaying killer on this matter.
On paper it sounds amazing and when implemented probably will be hated by many cordinated people who want to use BNP get rid of 1st gen pressure.
This will still allow users to use BNP on other gens that are closer and deadlier location so it promotes playing smart = still rewards you for it.
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Opinions too?
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Generally speaking killer still has the power role here its the killer that decides if the survivors will get ALL of the mentioned effects, elusive is only applied to the unhooked survivor that will probably be adjusted if they do any action such as picking up item and using flash light, fog vial this will remove elusive.
Nothing is carved into stone and fully locked in.
From the notes we got the killers get rewarded in the start of match upon hooking, then only then if they hook 2nd time on same player the things will be in favor for survivor.
Again as mentioned some of these stuff is not properly clarified what if the survivors self sabotage, i can promise you right now the devs wont let this be ongoing thing since many players even in solo q sabo by going afk not hitting skill checks on hook and dying making it 3v1 without killers decision.
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And another thing is, new players and existing players that are in average mmr wont notice this at all so it wont ruin the gameplay for them
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Oh and forgot to mention since it would be mini corrupt so we should not be given highlight of those gens that are furthest away (since you can already assume and require skill to locate survivors)
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991070#Comment_3991070
No, this is absolutely the correct way to do it. All the times Killers have gotten buffs in the past (be it general basekit buffs, or buffs to individual Killers), all it did was make tunneling and slugging even stronger, and thus Killers relied even more on it. Now, with tunneling and slugging properly nerfed, the devs will be able to see which Killers are truly struggling and adjust them accordingly.
On point with that statement + they already said their power roster of blight nurse dark lord wont be getting these buff rewards which will help them pin point stuff.
Then they can decide if maybe baseline corrupt is added to furthest gens in the start that lasts like mini corrupt 90s and players get access to slowly repair still not fully blocked.
I am hoping we get to see a baseline mini-corrupt that lasts 90s and gets deactivated on the first hit instead of a down.
Ill take anything to slow down early game like that.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Reading the notes, you'd have to eliminate the "last player hooked" specifically, and before 6 hooks.
So even if this triggers, you can insta down the condemned survivor, hook someone else, then come back and mori to bypass the penalty. This is entirely within the killers control.
It will most likely be adjusted to existing proc perks such as pain res, grim that require 4 unique hooks, 6 hooks is too much not ideal 4 is more ideal for general population to hit.
And im going to guess that they will most likely add onto it that if players die by their own mistake as in self sabotage unhook attempt aka not hit their checks or be left to die by the team hitting that gen repair bonus for remaining trial.
Depending on the bonus that is of course.
6 hooks is too much 4 is ideal and viable as its always been for many killer perks to proc fully
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Ryan if you can clarify on the 6hook state if a survivor dies by any means they get perma repair speed to gens remaining trial.
This only applies to if killer activly tries to make it a 3v1 before 6hook states right?
Not if survivor gets sacrificed by the team as a teamplay or if they self sabotage to "go next"
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991028#Comment_3991028
I feel fairly confident that letting people die or go second stage isn't going to punish the killer. Which, unfortunately, means hook camping might be moved up to the number one spot for trash tactics. Then that will need addressing.
Yeah face camping needs to be expanded to be more of radius based but thats alright
Ill take that if they self sabotage
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@cogsturning said:
It's a lot less words to say, "If I tunnel two people in a row do the remaining two get a double buff?"
Yeah most of the time when its not a swf the remaining 2 are left with what 2 to 3 gens and they hide because they cant finish the match.
If the killer tunnels that is.
I wont mind it stacking againts a hardcore tunneler that just only has one goal and it is to wipe the person that got unhooked, wont even go break gen or injure others around him.
Im pretty sure this effect wont go in motion due to survivors self sabotage on hook, and not being saved when there has been only 2 or 4 hook states or 3 even.
As long as there has been a literal 2 unique hook states this effect shouldnt concern majority of killers.
Im 100% sure this will be clarified that it cant be abused by swfs and probably be taken down a notch to 4 unique hook states to match pain res, grim embrace
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@dbd900bach said:
I think in some form Myers will have something similar to scratch mirror because its such a beloved gimmick. Its a gimmick though and while fun at first, it quickly becomes unfun because Myers breathing is too loud and the scare factor wears off after the first couple time.
I think it could stand to be buffed in this new iteration, but because of his ability to switch modes, it should not have its aura reading ability. If it does, then similar heavy restrictions will be placed on his power. For the sake of being at least viable, the aura reading should be restricted or removed for even more enhanced stealth. Perhaps silent steps and breathing with no terror radius when in stalker mode, and maybe slow the stalking rate as well for a trade-off, but it might now be necessary given Myers more visible figure in open maps.
Would be cool honestly for them to make a rework of existing mirrors to match to what they mentioned in the post under dev notes that they want to assure their myer players to enjoy both worlds.
It makes me think you will be able to sacrifice the benefits of his evil incarnate lunge dash distance and such to gain more in stealth mode addon wise.
Not sure if they will still be named vanity and scratched mirror but for sure it will be an addon that balances both modes more.
Speaking about that i main him in vanity mirror + dead rabbit so i would 100% jump right into sacrificing his newest ability range and power to gain back more in stealth!
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@UnicornMedal said:
Basekit Tenacity I can take or leave. I'm a No Mither main and the Killer usually won't let me get away if they know what I'm up to, so I don't think it'd make a huge difference unless they're not paying attention at all. It's one of those things where with it, they can just run Deerstalker and without it, I can just run Tenacity.
The 120 seconds I'm not a fan of though. I don't think Killer realistically needs 2 minutes of pressure on one Survivor. That's half the bleed out timer and almost 2 generators. It totally defeats the purpose of Survivor having more autonomy during the slugged state. If you gave the player something better to do during that time, I wouldn't hate it. But otherwise it's too much (in my opinion).
I could also see the changes where if a survivor that just got unhooked decides to go for flashlight saves and sabotage hooks or even doing gens ever so slightly would fully refresh their hook cycle so killer can still go for them but not as they could when they just off hooked.
So for me what i experienced to extreme is tunneling after being unhooked and chased and followed.
Like i think its going to be unfair lets say there are majority of maps where there are hooks or scourage hooks where killer has to hook 2nd person, what if its right infront of the 1st hooked person.
I think after each hook it should refresh not trigger anything.
Generally speaking we will see if 90s is pretty good adition to getting them downed go for tactical slug and get the third survivor hooked before going back.
Also im fairly certain that if they die before 6th hook state then they get perma buff till the rest of trial.
I could settle for 4 hooks + with adition if a survivor is self sacrificed aka forces to die on hook or sacrificed by team then it wont work or trigger the effect for others.
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They are bound to keep it and rework it by locking him out of his pursuer mode and focus on stalker mode.
If they fully remove it then they officially killed the large portion of players that play michael as a stealth killer.
Since other side of players always played him tier 3 and bombastic type way.
Since tier 1 2 3 are gone and now there is hybrid 1 and 2 and 3 then going to assume since stalking still exists and it applies to all survivors its bound there will be addons to build on top of it
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@cdamxp said:
I know there are a lot of kneejerk reactions going around about all the changes, but I actually have a good feeling about most of the anti-slugging and anti-camping changes. However, the one change that sticks out to me is the change to The Shape. It feels like it doesn’t fit Myers as a character. He isn’t known for large bursts of speed like with the lunge. He is supposed to be a constant lurking presence and threat. The blog post at least did not convey that feeling in his new kit. Plus, with the way his kit is set up now he feels too comparable to The Pig and he might be at risk of losing his identity as a killer because of it. Additionally, due to the add-on versatility of original design he had a unique fear tied to him that I never knew what I was really facing. Scratched Mirror jumpscare Myers, double iridescent perma-tombstone Myers, Fragrant Tuft perma-tier 3 Myers, no hiding Vanity Mirror Myers, 3v1 Shard Myers, or just streamlined base Myers with increased stalk rate. Every one of these had one or more of their own unique playstyles and counterplay. Myers was such a mixed bag it made him fun to face as a survivor and satisfying to play as killer. Albeit, his new add-ons have not been shown, but with the rework to how hookstates and sacrifices affect the killer I can’t see his tombstone add-ons remaining untouched and with the push to make his skills toggleable I doubt his mirrors are staying either. I appreciate the desire to keep his old exposed as an add-on, but that isn’t the only thing about his kit that made him interesting and fun. If his versatility does end up persisting through the rework, I will be greatly impressed and happy; but if not I would like to get ahead of the curve and say that it’s a terrible waste of what made Myers fun for both sides. It’s no secret that Myers isn’t the most powerful, but sacrificing his lore accuracy, killer identity, and versatility for a more “balanced” kill rate is, at least in my view, not worth the price.
This will be tough for them to play it out for myers players since he had players in every corner of his playstyles
Mainly the tomb and scratched mirror then came vanity mirror and regular tier 3 fast build up to it loadout.
They sadly didnt specify what is happening to the mirrors only overall addon rework so if we are going to assume then mirrors wont be attatched to the whole tiers anymore now it will be more based in that stealth mode of his and sacrifice pursuer mode to remain in stealth mode.
I would be happy to sacrifice and remain
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@4thdslip said:
Gonna go through this piece by piece…
- I agree with your opinion about pausing the timer while other survivors are being carried. I also think it should be slowed when other survivors are within 12 meters, maybe 8, due to the fact that they can be saved in that situation.
- Killers now have a weaker version of BBQ and Chili basekit that shows the survivors you've hooked less than or equal to the person you just hooked. You'll get information for roughly every single hook that you perform.
- This point is directly untrue, as Elusive turns off with conspicuous actions and will almost certainly have the same 10 second timer used for the basekit haste and endurance effect, unless you're running OTR (in which, like the endurance, its buffed to 80 seconds). You'll never reach endgame with perma-unhook Elusive, anyways.
- The negating use of Obsession perks only applies to Dark Devotion, as Wretched Fate and Dying Light do very little for the Obsession (Dying Light even BUFFS the Obsession), and every other killer Obsession perk (minus one - Remember Me) switches the Obsession, which falls in line with the line of thinking for anti-tunnel. Remember Me's best partner is No Way Out, which requires you to hook every single survivor anyways, and already disincentivizes tunnelling due to the fact that you have to hit the Obsession 5 times - meaning they have to get healed at some point before you can attack them again.
- Survivors gain bonuses if killers continue to tunnel, but killers do get additional buffs if they do not tunnel, including mini-Pop, haste, and again, mini-Chili. Read previous point for why the Obsession perk thing actually means nothing.
- If a survivor is killed before the 6th hook, then yes, it stops the regression or blocking. You can kill at the 7th hook, which means that if you hook a survivor first, third, and then mori them after the 6th hook, you don't get this effect.
- These are buffs in hopes of allowing people to play weaker killers. Base kit regression and aura reading allows those weaker killers to free up slots in their kits to put other things that may be useful. I do know I'm very happy to have my Surge back on Michael in place of Pop.
- Combining all your Michael points into one, as someone who plays him and Billy (another OHKO dash killer), I don't feel like they're very similar at all! Michael has OHKO Demo Shred now, which greatly increases his ability to outplay loops without bloodlust or having to leave the chase. I assume, much like Oni, his Evil Incarnate mode will be triggered on command, so there will still be all the fun of popping T3 behind a survivor and lunging directly at them for the down. tl;dr on this: Michael is actually more like Demo and Oni now, and it's really nice without changing anything of what makes Michael enjoyable.
- The only perk that is becoming basekit is a reduced version of OTR's lack of grunts, blood, scratch marks, and aura reading. A bunch of perks are getting changed, though.
While I think parts of the anti-tunnelling changes will not go live (the 6 hook requirement for killing as well as its downside, and the survivor buffs to gen speeds), I do think a lot of this is actually good for the game.
Myers wise if they can make his lunge ability into his current controllable coup baseline perk alike moveset then it will be a chefs kiss instead of it being so hard to control and move sluggish and clunky like the pigs power or demo jump.
I think michael should have unique one to him thats similar to his controllable lunge in tier 3 + coup combo.
Obviously slight stop to give players an visual queue before it gets popped
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990339#Comment_3990339
What we want really doesn't matter, nor what we assume.
We will wait for Tuesday.
I hope they speak more about the changes and values before release since it riled up the people and content creators
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990321#Comment_3990321
Pop might be an additional 5% total progress.
Anything more and the regression starts to get a little heavy.
Im going to assume that they will start of by making all 3 basekit from current existing values and then either adjust the values of existing perks itself or give them aditional status effect that they will be given
5% would be generally too low and kinda absurd in comparison to the value that tunneling 3v1 would get you.
If they make it 10% ill take that but ideally i would want current pop values and haste at 5% not slower.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990306#Comment_3990306
I think so too.
I also think the ironic thing is that I feel I'm being helped with the big issues as survivor, but being hurt with a lot of my own gameplay methods. I'm a sneaky gen jockey. I use gens and lockers to counter BBQ and other aura perks. Sometimes I walk out the exit gates without the killer even seeing me once. That's gonna change now. I might need to get better at chase. It's a shake up I didn't want but probably needed.
But as killer, I feel only positives. This crying from other killers is bizarre.
Yeah i think this new changes will require survivors to adapt more to them than killers, obviously the killers relying on tunneling for their secured 3k and 3v1 situations will need to play how they used to before they got comfortable in tunneling 3v1.
Thankfully on my side as a killer and as myers i only had brief period of times and matches of just tunneling so i didnt get used to it as much.
I will be way more paranoid and aware now and having to rely on figuring out which locker will be near me and such
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990235#Comment_3990235
They will not be as good as you think they will be, I hate to burst your bubble.
If its
Haste - 5%
Pop - 15-20%
Base BBQ
Then that all three basically kinda secure me the win unless i go up againts a highly cordinated teams in vc that can fully counter any proc at any given time and still go for saves and do gens no matter the pressure.
Not even my ego talking just how it is since i tried running many meta perk combos and generally speaking i always either lacked pop, bbq, haste, mainly haste in my build for chases.
And since myers is getting these new changes i think i can manage quite well againts 4 man swfs
It will be a battle of skill clash not battle of who has better perk stacking
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990104#Comment_3990104
The skilled 4-mans are actually my only concern. But I also don't think the game should revolve around that small fraction of players. They're damn hard to deal with no matter what's in place anyway. They already do quite well as is. It's the mid level and soloqers that really need some help.
I think in short this new changes especially BBQ baseline will make it a bit tougher for swfs 4 mans.
Like by now they have everything down from releasing the gen when pain reso is proc, if its not dms.
Even with BBQ baseline this should make it a bit tougher because all 3 will have to hide and waste time by not moving closers for save.
Pop will punish them too
Haste helps as well.
120% or 125% on myers lingering a bit with his new lunge dash ability will be lethal xD
It might just be a 50/50 rival factor here
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@4thdslip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990269#Comment_3990269
I also did just edit the original comment to illustrate that it would logically be more than 90 seconds in average play, and how that flow would sort of look.
Really, all I feel like the changes to unhooks are actually anti-farm hooking changes, as its become considerably more common to immediately go rushing that unhook before the killer leaves the area. Now, in order to not get sucked into the positive feedback loop of "unhook in face, get stabbed and hooked so he has more pressure," you do have to wait a little bit. If only they make base kit Reassurance for when people are chasing around the hook to dis-incentivize proxy camping next.
We will see i feel like next on the list is maybe baseline corrupt since its been popular request by many.
Maybe not same effect but something that dictates gen repair speed for survivors in start.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990262#Comment_3990262
If a high kill rate can be achieved without tunneling and slugging then I'm all for it. It's the 80%+ players who play dirty that I can't abide by.
I'm hyped for these changes. I'll probably be playing more killer now. My ethics have lost me matches, and now I'm going to be rewarded for them with buffed basekit.
Same here i lost my matches as myers at higher lobbies because it was not viable or rewarded for spreading hooks.
So sadly i got forced into tunneling to make it 3v1 to make it 2-3k.
Now stuff changes, now i can get haste as michael + pop + bbq.
Like i think this needs to sink in player minds how powerful it is if played right u can do so much with this without making entire build for this and play how u want
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@crogers271 said:
Lots of talk about the survivors getting handheld with the recent release notes, but it far more looks like the killer's handholding is being removed
Nothing is certain until we see the numbers, and like a lot of recent BHVR changes they went big instead of trying more simple solutions first, but let's look at a few things
Getting a survivor out and creating a 3v1 will still be to the killer's benefit, but hopefully it doesn't so frequently mean the trial is effectively over and the 3 others will still have a chance.
Removing the unhook notification is an excellent change. This is has been a simplistic basekit method that allows killers to tunnel without requiring much game sense, instead the game just tells them 'go here now'
Free benefits for spreading hooks is exactly what has been asked for in trade for anti-tunnel. Even if you eliminate a survivor on the 5th hook and the survivors get the increased gen speed, you get free boosts off the unique hooks (anywhere from one to four times-plus you still get increased benefits from your hooks here on out).
Survivors are losing the ability to body block off hook, again something else that has been requested for a long time and makes it easier for killers to get that next unique hook if they are pursuing the unhooker.
Slugging might be the only thing that is just a straight nerf, but 90 seconds is a long time in DbD. It's not like slugging suddenly can't happen anymore, it just hopefully eliminates the strategy of slugging one survivor and focusing on tunneling the others.
It looks like the patch is encouraging the exact types of play that should happen, those that require more game sense and award adapting strategies to the circumstances, and punish the simplistic strategies that have been overpowered for far too long.
At least until BHVR backtracks and none of this actually makes it to live.
Also keep in mind if they kill them selves or team sacrifices them on 5th hook its most likely wont be punishable due to it not being killers fault.
Many content creators pointed it out that its a bit confusing why they will get perma repair speed boost and such for survivor not saving them on time.
Other than that everything else seems to be in order
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@Dadeordye said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990261#Comment_3990261
Found another issue.
A SWF trio could purposely let the "random 4th surv" die in the hook to get these insane buffs.Pretty sure thats on the survivor issue and cause, if u hook them as in 1st hook state they will make it also a thing where u wont get a penalty if they somehow decide to sacrifice a random which they probably wont it loses them a game in 3v1.
That said its gonna be polished before public release and many creators pointed it out
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@4thdslip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990253#Comment_3990253
Why is everyone acting like it takes 90 seconds to find and hook a survivor? This is what's confusing me the most about all of this. Walk to a generator, use any of your killer's many ways to gain information or cross the map quickly, use a aura reading perk, vaguely remember where the mini-Chili showed a survivor and search there if it really was not all that long ago. Survivors stopped playing for stealth ages ago, you will find one.
Yeah honestly 90s is plenty to find and located and down a survivor, worst case scenario u chase for a while but that person that just got up only managed to only now get heals, find an item and work on gen and as soon as that happens it will refresh cycle u get a down on new person and hook and get rewarded.
Then you can go back to the one that was 1st hooked if players really want that one person dead and gone lol
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990235#Comment_3990235
Yeah I feel happy about this as both killer and survivor. I play fair as both, so it's a win for both. I like my matches to be long and close, not painfully one-sided. If anything, my favoring of stealth and gen-jockeying as survivor might be hurt a little, but it's worth it if the killer can't fastball me back to the lobby with a 6k score. It's also going to help killers who don't run aura perks avoid that one player who's great at chase and tries to take them on the whole match. They can find the others (me lol) now.
And yeah, this might actually shake up the killer meta, which is stale as all hell. Now I just want the survivor meta shaken.
I still think your wild for complaining about that kill rate though lol
XD
Im telling you im going places with these new changes, im about to rival Pulsars 90% killrate.
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@Dadeordye said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990253#Comment_3990253
Let's pray for that.
Im 90% sure that it will be added lol they wont allow any loopholes like that slip through, like look at youtube content there are streamers who said there are some changes that overlap and dont make sense.
Either way for now when it gets added down them, gives u 3v1 for 90s, in 90s remember the survivors can do a lot if there is just 3
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@4thdslip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990246#Comment_3990246
To Be Fair, its a conspicuous action to work on the box, so you can just walk up and hit her to take the box back. What happens after that point is that you eat the missed DMS and go hook someone else after the fact to turn the regression back on.
They can also make it that if u injure them, they get downed 90s pass by they get back up, if u find them again u can hook without penalty.
But thats generally just like extreme situation, they might add that though since people seem to be complaining
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@Dadeordye said:
What makes me mad is that if you find the surv you just hooked again by accident you have to purposely ignore him/her.
So we now have to let them win in some extent to not get extremely f***ed up.Thats only loophole but easy thing is to down them, it wastes 90 seconds, allows u to just play normally.
It practically lets u have a temp 3v1 for 90 seconds.
But my guess is they will find a way to fix this by allowing to hook them once 90 seconds pass by.
Without any penalties
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@4thdslip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990237#Comment_3990237
10% is wholly unrealistic but I love to imagine fully juiced up Hag running across the map with Waterlogged Shoe at 125% for no good reason and it makes me smile.
AHAHAHAH
That made me laugh so hard her hunch back short body limping across the map at clown speeds.
For sure there will be a way of PWYF stacking ability.
It will further improve the gameplay for m1 killers.
I myself can safely remove that perk on my myers and finally play him how i used to using grim embrace.
Like im really happy, i dont think baseline corrupt will be needed anymore.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990228#Comment_3990228
Okay, so, first of all, completely different scenario to the one you discussed first. Gen regression not working isn't a buff to lasting in chase or hiding, not even indirectly. The repair speed bonus could be argued to be an indirect buff here, but it wouldn't be helpful or constructive to take that lens.
Second, those things only come into play if you tunnel someone out, which means there are two broad things to say about it.
1: You still have someone dead, so. You're not exactly necessarily doomed to lose even in the worst case scenario.
2: You have complete control and agency over not being in this scenario to begin with. Sure, I'll buy that cheeky 4-man groups might try and force the issue, but they can't actually force you to hook someone if you choose not to.Third, I mean, the developers do get to dictate how people play their game. A good developer will roll with the playerbase to a certain degree, but it's completely within their mandate to step in and say "this one specific thing is not legitimate" before doing something about it.
Just explain to him that BHVR will probably prevent that the survivor on 1st hook and them being left to die or reach 2nd or fully die wont trigger this.
Same goes for if lets say survivor A & B are 1st hook and u hook either and they die u wont be punished because they dont simply save them on time.
Anything survivor mistake related wont influence or trigger gen speed repair to be faster etc
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@4thdslip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990222#Comment_3990222
Turn those haste numbers way lower, buddy. 15% is just about what Clown gets with one bottle, and he's currently oppressive due to how easy it is for him to hit that haste. I would say at most 5% haste, to prevent speed demons like Clown, Springtrap, and (HOPEFULLY) the new Michael from getting too oppressive.
It will most likely be 5%, generally speaking its a blessing to not run PWYF, it probably can stack on top but whats the point since for me 5% is really plenty to travel the map.
I was just saying 10% for like final 4th unique hook and being very briefly but unrealistic XD
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@cogsturning said:
Mini basekit haste, BBQ, and Pop are insane buffs for fair killer-players. So is post-hook anti-collision. Even if they're not as strong as the perks, I'm absolutely thrilled. I already avoided tunneling so this is all positive for me. I can't see many negatives to this if you're a fair player, except for abuses by skilled 4-mans, and they will always find a way to abuse things so I'm not going to judge changes that help the majority based on the behavior of the minority.
I think you can probably vouch for me and so can
@Pulsar Related to my myers post from few weeks ago where i complained higher mmr lobbies are not that playable because of how i cant spread hooks well no reward and i have to run meta perks.
Yet here we are finally BHVR doing something allowing killers to not rune pop, bbq, or PWYF even.
Generally speaking im really happy that this is coming i can finally feel happy to run grim embrace in my build.
The post i posted related to myers at 78%+ killrate where its not viable because cordinated teams and by the time i find them they finished gens and such.