ChaosWam
ChaosWam
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- ChaosWam
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My only concern is the fact BHVR is still a business and needs to have the income to justify putting those off, and I'm not 100% sure they consider cosmetic sales enough to justify it.
That said, this game desperately needs it at this point. There's no reason old bugs should be popping back up.
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I feel as if one thing they could do is shift away from survivors having a personal escape objective and more over a teamwork objective.
What I mean by this is the game seems to grade most things; MMR, Pips, BP, etc on personal escape and personal skill which can be a detriment to your team and really your own escape chances. I'm not 100% sure on specifics myself, but if they made it where survivors made more points dying to protect their teammates, taking chases and bodyblocks as more of a reward for survivors already hooked/recently off the hook, keeping the killer busier than other survivors, and heck maybe go as far as pooling all the BP together and dividing it by team effort and team awareness instead of personal skill it could shift things enough for survivor to make these decisions ingame. That way dying as a survivor stings less if you used that time wisely for the entire team.
Obviously there's a lot of problems that would need to be resolved for such a drastic change, but part of me wishes it was something DBD focused on earlier.
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Personally I've found fun with Sadako without spamming condemned, but even I'll admit I'm in the minority on that subject. Same with Skull Merchant, if I can be completely honest.
Trickster feels terrible now though.
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I'm still wary about whatever they have planned for Sadako considering the Trickster changes they did, but I will agree that if they focus on her being fun like before but stronger, I won't complain.
Freddy definitely needs this treatment too. I like playing Freddy but his mechanics are incredibly weak.
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I have such a weird hate/love feeling for my main Sadako's changes.
On one hand, some things are way better than her previous power and on the other hand, it's either too oppressive or teleporting feels too sluggish with the cooldowns.
One hand, love tapes being used more to counter-balance gen speeds. On the other, tapes are such a hassle to people they never touch them and I end up the only survivor on my team not condemned at times.
I hope the next change fixes these issues.
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I think BHVR has something great here, and potential to be even better with the right direction but if they refuse to innovate it's going to be a slow death. Heck, I can see some people probably leave the game considering they're not focused on game health and improvements over new skins and killer/perk tweaks we possibly don't want.
I don't know if it's a staffing issue or what but BHVR needs more hands on deck for SoloQ QoL and overall game health. I won't say they should skip a DLC or anything like that, they need to make money, but it's a worrying trend that these things aren't a focus.
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It's strange because if survivors could see each other's loadouts pre match, it would make balancing perks even easier than before. They'd have no excuse to allow some combinations SWF can abuse while SoloQ struggles.
I still don't think survivors should have voice comms mind you, but some information on each other's perks isn't a dealbreaker and I say this as a killer main myself.
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@Gabe_Soma said:
It's confirmed to be a fake, don't post this again.
It is? First I've heard of this. Where was this confirmed?
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@jesterkind said:
...Eh?
Isn't it pretty commonly stated that people don't like playing Twins because they don't like feeling forced into slugging as often as they kinda have to in order to utilise that kit properly? Wouldn't BHVR pretty obviously also be replacing that need to slug with other options, thus improving the killer experience substantially?
Also, what're you on about by saying they "don't care" about Twins being bugged, too? This question wasn't about that, and we already know they've been working on the Twins update for over a year now. Every killer update so far has had bug fixes in it too, if I remember correctly, and there's no way on this earth the most bugged killer in the game won't have at least some of those bugs addressed in their update.
This is a giant reach, you're taking a question very specifically about just the slugging aspect of the Twins update and you're trying to make it sound like slugging is the only thing being addressed and the only reason for the update.
I used to run Twins a lot until I realized this was pretty much the most optimal play. Once I realized it, I got bored and swapped to undetectable killers. I know the devs can be tone-deaf on a lot of changes but this makes sense to me, and I can only hope they fix bugs along the way.
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@HandsomeJack_049 said:
I actually like the idea, but I don't really think left behind needs a buff. If it got one, this would be nice. I think a better buff idea would be something like this: Press the activation button to rummage through a chest to find a purple key.
That is honestly a great idea
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I'm just worried about the ramifications of it for the weaker killers that end up forced into a 3-gen scenario.
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Hol' up
I know there are haste perks on killer that have weird activation requirements or endgame requirements, sure, but there are no perks that effect bloodlust gain.
Heck, the two bloodlust related perks off the top of my head are Beast of Prey that removes the red stain in BL1 and Rapid Brutality that, yes increases speed by 5% on hit but removes bloodlust entirely.
MFT gave an infinite 3% haste when injured, which could be paired with other injured-related perks to make them even stronger and just punish M1 killers in general. Heck, I've had it break chase in low wall loops doing nothing but following them so bloodlust wasn't going to activate anyway.
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As someone who has bought dlcs here and there, ingame original killers, and experienced the grind pre-bloodweb changes, this is all a VERY healthy step in the right direction. Not as many people are grind-happy as me and I want them to have a good time too.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607459#Comment_3607459
The old Remote Control add-on was horrible for an Iri but I actually like the current Remote Control. It no longer has the carrying tape requirement so it can actually provide some really good info with its aura reading. I think a slight range increase to like 16 meters would be nice though. I really hope they either keep it as is or improve upon it. Going back to the old Remote Control would just be so unfortunate.
I'm also concerned about what they have in store for the Iri-tape add-on. Its current form should definitely go back to being basekit. If they don't restore the old Iri-tape though they have to keep the reduced TV cool-down times and remove the 10sec cool-down between teleports. Otherwise her mobility will still suffer and not have the condemn slowdown to make up for it.
Oddly enough I found more value in the Distorted Photo than the Remote. Distorted Photo can work as a slightly weaker I'm All Ears in tiles if you time it right and when survivors would turn to look at you during mindgames and loops.
And I agree with your assessment of the Iri Tape. I don't really run it anymore because I was a bigger fan of pre-rework tape for my style of Deadmans/VCR so the new one just kind of feels either way too overbearing on the survivors who in my experience already ignore tapes for the most part, or clashes with my gen block/chase style. That said, current tape should be basekit as it was pre-rework with assigning a TV to a tape.
My only big complaint about old Sadako was how easy it was to avoid condemned for the most part and ignore TVs and tapes, while full condemned wasn't too much of a problem unless the Sadako runs STBFL since you can cleanse it in their face in most scenarios. That said, most of these suggestions I've seen kind of remedy that with extending condemned stack radius, applying it on teleport and not after the animations, or just weakening the widespread condemned while strengthening it the closer to a TV a survivor is when you teleport. All good suggestions and I hope BHVR doesn't drop the ball with it.
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After I tried running cheeky Third Seal builds with Undying and BOTH totems spawned right in front of the survivors in a match I gave them up
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I wouldn't consider STBFL 'beyond powerful' outside very specific situations. It's helpful when you have stacks, sure, but I don't see it as broken. I'd argue the only thing needed is for it to not apply a stack if you put a survivor into deep wounds to discourage hitting off hook for stacks.
Distortion is also a confusing one for me. Sure against a high TR killer you're guaranteed stacks but on stealth killers you run out of them very frequently, plus you don't get value if the killer decides to run non-aura reading perks/addons.
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These are pretty good suggestions, I especially like the Iri Remote one. Both pre and post rework Sadako's Iri Remote was... Not useful.
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There is the status effect 'Incapacitated' that I feel should have more applications.
Maybe a couple seconds active with Blood Echo or something, I don't know.
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The Wendigo, so broken it's not even in the game yet (a true crime)
For real though I feel like out of everyone that isn't OP like Nurse, I'd say the Nemesis zombies' AI needs tuning.
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As an M1 killer enjoyer I'm celebrating. The only MFT users I come across are the ones using it in builds designed around anti-tunnel and dead hard or off the record, which is fine.
That said, I've avoided playing Legion. How is facing it on them now?
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607210#Comment_3607210
Clown has multiple bottles. Nothing prevents him from getting both effects simultaneously - in fact intermediate Clowns often combine purples and yellows when it's needed to take a hit that would be impossible otherwise.
I'm comparing SM to Clown because I'm a Clown main and SM enjoyer, and I find them really similar. I personally feel SM is a weaker Clown on training wheels. I pick her when I don't feel like sweating and want to have the same gameplay without paying attention. I also appreciate her basekit Cigar Box in form of that radar.
Trying out both myself this is pretty accurate.
I can't really wrap my brain around Clown's gameplay, just the way I play in general clashes with his bottles and all the tricks you can do with them while SM is pretty simple and allows me to make stealth builds I find personally appealing without spending 1000 hours on getting steamrolled trying to figure out the best bottle throws for every loop.
If I were to spend that much time I'd dedicate it to Huntress because the axes are more straight forward in terms of skill expression.
But aside all that, the similarities of Clown and SM are there, just applied differently. I'd call SM 'Clown light with a hint of Legion'
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Alternatively you could make it activate indefinitely when all survivors are on death hook instead. A huge reward for spreading hooks and one heck of a scary endgame if paired with the right stuff.
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Pretty much. No scratch mark perks on survivor side and yet they go everywhere, even worse in indoor maps.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607007#Comment_3607007
There is no “learning to play against her”.
She drops a drone at the loop, and
You hold w, you get hit.
or
You stay, drone injures you, hinders you, deep wounds you, and hastens her. You go down.
or
She uses her drones to hold a 3 gen, which also gives her the best stealth in the game.
There is no skill. No meaningful interaction. No REASON to play against her. She’s by far the most hated and miserable killer in DBD, for a good reason.
No thanks… I think I’ll continue to “forget” how to play survivor. I’m not going to waste my time playing against a killer like Dull Merchant.
Aren't her drones basically the same principle as legion's power considering they put you into deep wounds now?
Just apply the legion logic of playing safe at loops. Personally I'd like to see her haste stacks go because she has hindered to make up for it, but otherwise she's still an M1 killer that needs to build for chase.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605974#Comment_3605974
it used to be hidden until 1st token, idk why they changed it.
That's crazy, I had no idea. There's no reason to have changed that.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606151#Comment_3606151
That would have some consequences on the overall of the game too, which I do not think should happen as a result of haste. It's basically a miracle that the game works as well as it does with the movement speeds we have. Increasing them, while maybe fun, could have the potential to break that balance.
Keep in mind, the faster both sides move, the more impactful every little imperfection will be. So mind games could end in guaranteed hits (which would not feel great to play against) and depending on how these changes are done, most structures could become either super safe or super unsafe. It's more risky than I'd like.
I mostly mean for those games that reach the 40 minute mark, not just in general.
By then most pallets are gone and you're stuck in that 3 gen scenario anyway. But then again it's just a fun thought, hopefully their solution for 3 gen helps avoid it.
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@Xernoton said:
What else should happen? You cannot have the match end in a Schroedinger's loss for both sides. Either the survivors die or they escape. There is no other option.
Ideally, we should try to make this redundant. A match shouldn't go on for 60 minutes, no matter who does what. My suggestion is to modify the anti 3 gen mechanic in a way. If the survivors do end up 3 genning themselves without the killer forcing it, then the killer should eventually grow stronger the longer the match goes. After 30+ minutes they could gain a permanent 15% haste (ridiculously overpowered, just to end the match). If the killer does end up forcing a 3 gen, then the mechanic should solve this issue.
This just gave me an awesome idea. Extend it to gen progression as well and make late games go even faster.
Heck, faster movement/actions/vaulting the works for both sides.
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Anything square or rectangle in my experience, but not too large or small.
Also, flat space unless a building/loop creates elevation. The swamp maps annoy me to this day due to that.
Though I can't say I'm completely sure since I still do like the RPD maps.
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As someone who has learned to vibe with her current iteration, these are all good suggestions for a rework. My biggest concern was the lack of condemned play if they reverted her back, considering how easy it was to avoid before. But you make some good arguments for enhancements to it without being too oppressive and keep it as a secondary objective survivors need to focus on as well. Kudos!
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Honestly I wish they'd do that with some hexes as well. Hex: Huntress Lullaby is horrible because it's immediately shown as active when the round starts and when I actually get value from it, it feels like a good hex otherwise.
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It's weird because I feel like it's becoming more common than before.
Even when I play killer focusing on my hook spread I can end up with 3 gens in visual range of each other (swamp) or at least easily defended with just Jolt and I can't tell if it's survivor's rushing out gens and being afraid with the last, the gens or too close or if I'm actually defending them that good. And obviously it can't be JUST Jolt's value from it, I actually commit to chases even if it takes me away from the gens unless I notice a gen is getting done and survivors are clearly nearby.
At this point I think every map needs their map generation looked at and possibly rework the placements.
Edit: Surge* I keep forgetting it's Surge again.
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Deadlock is only slightly valuable to keep genrush at bay, and even then it's countered by survivors splitting up on gens and pressuring multiple spots.
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I run hyperfocus and fogwise with stakeout, and honestly I think stakeout is the problem but only because of those perks. I've broken 3 gens and saved soloQ games with it alone, as long as the killer leaves me alone in their radius. ESPECIALLY against Weskers.
If they made hyperfocus and fogwise only proc when you hit the great skill check area and not just getting a gsc it may be more balanced?
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604698#Comment_3604698
That's a lot more than can be expected from your average player. Sadako is already not easy to play against because a good Sadako can and will make getting rid of codemnation incredibly hard. Making this even harder wouldn't be much of a problem for more coordinated survivors but it would absolutely wreak havoc on average players.
Kinda like current Sadako now?
I run a gen defense build Sadako with condemned being a secondary threat rather than the focus and survivors still have trouble managing their condemned half the time. Honestly more paranoia on their condemned could help some of them, others will still obviously fall for it, hence why I suggested it being an Iri Addon.
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Idk if it should be basekit but imagine if her Iri Tape made it where you see the condemned and the survivors don't.
Then survivors would have to be extra wary or keep tabs on their condemned mentally.
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The question is if basekit kindred is too much information, or if they nerf the radius and add it back as the rework to current kindred then it'd be useless for killers that camp like a cloaked Wraith or insidious user hiding outside the self-unhook spot.
Imo survivor side needs better information on killer powers they can access before starting a match or learn about easier than going through the store. Really even their Game Manual needs to be taken outside the 'Getting Started' option and expanded upon at this point and easily available with every aspect they can; items, buffs, ailments, killer powers, soft explanations on looping etc.
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@Xyphus said:
In all seriousness.. I'm playing her basically non-stop and what you're describing happens MAYBE in 1/10 matches.. I can live with that. It's actually not my problem that people can't let go of the past and it's even less my problem what other players chose to make out of her. I can only speak from my experience and that is that 90% of my matches (I'd claim that it's even more - I'll try to remember to make a list and pay more attention to that) are real matches from start to end with no one killing themself or DCing.
Maybe I'm lucky - who knows.. Or Survivors notice quickly that I'm not 3-genning or tunneling or whatever BS could be done (which ANY killer can do...!)
Have to agree here, I'm not getting a whole lot of DCers against my Stealth Merchant build either. And I actually am having fun against her, even getting 4 escapes because I know when and when not to disable drones.
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Honestly the solution to 3 gen is better map design and placements while keeping map size in mind, but that would take a lot of resources for BHVR so we'll most likely get a penalty on killer side for holding them. Hopefully it doesn't do anything against killers who don't hold them all game and survivors rushing into one.
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I've had people give up against Hag after 1 hook even though a gen got done. I'm not shocked anymore.
SoloQ needs help bad, in a way that doesn't demolish weak M1 killers.
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If their entire build revolves around bodyblocking with off the hook perks and are actively trying to do it, then no you did nothing wrong and it's on them.
I had it happen when I was doing a personal M1 Knight challenge with the random perk rift challenge active. Thankfully they didn't yell 'tunneler' but it doesn't change the fact they made builds around it.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601607#Comment_3601607
true but they might eventually add footstep sounds to skull merchant because it doesn't match with any other "stealth" killer designs
Perfectly fine by me honestly. She may have terrible lore but I can't deny she's a fun stealth killer.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601570#Comment_3601570
well out of balance it would only apply to perks and addon effects much like how there are no basekit aura reading effects
I'd still fit it into my build. I run a lot of undetectable regardless.
If they barely hear my TR it only adds to the confusion, you see.
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Please do, my stealth merchant would fit it into her build.
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I find it weird because if you wanted to prove a killer was broken, why wouldn't you try your best against said killer for more accurate data?
Same problem I had with Sadako when she was reworked and sometimes still do. Heck, as survivor I try my hardest against even Knight and Skull Merchant purely because people say they're a nightmare to go against still. Oddly enough, I'm enjoying the SM matches because I find the new drones kinda interesting with being careful about movements around gens and deactivating a ton just to ignore others to sneak gen progression. I also like managing tapes against Sadako, and I'm still bad at dealing with Knight but I do notice sometimes I learn when best to take a hit and not to take a hit, avoid detection with tall walls and whatnot.
Then again maybe I'm a crazy person who likes going against the odds.
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If they reduced hook chances I'd have to argue to replace hook states for every down instead of hooks because there wouldn't be a point to hooking anymore. Chases already take a long time with good teams/tile layouts and it's not uncommon to lose 2 gens on a good chase. Meanwhile killer side needs at least 6 hooks to feel like something is progressing for them, or at least one kill, which is just 3 hooks.
And imagine how bad slugging would be if they made hooking less of a possibility.
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Corrupt? Sure. Grim Embrace? Strange but I can see it. BBQ? Too much info with other perks.
Devour Hope? That is one spicy take.
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@I_CAME said:
They need to just limit how many slowdown/regression perks you can bring. Maybe two max. At least on higher tier killers. The devs have to know that all killers aren't created equal. If they aren't going to nerf nurse and blight significantly then at least make it so they can't stack four slowdown perks. It's basically a guaranteed loss unless the killer is exceptionally bad. They have to know that S tier killers running four slowdowns isn't fair. I don't think the issue is the perks as much as it is certain killers that Behavior is still stubbornly refusing to nerf. It's the same reason ultimate weapon is a big issue. At some point the devs have to acknowledge what the real problem is and make an actual effort to fix it.
The problem with limiting perk types opens the door to so many unjustified perk limitations.
Who is to say this would be limited to just gen regression for 'the sake of consistancy'? What if they limit gen progression for survivors? Chase perks? Information on both sides? Would items and addons be effected? Restrictions on perks an entire team of survivors could bring if it meant more than 2 of each type? It would require more balancing BHVR probably doesn't have the time and resources for and create new issues down the line.
A better solution in my opinion is a hard cap on regression/progression %'s for healing and generators entirely. Would have fixed a lot of problems long before a lot of nerfs/buffs as far as I could tell.
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@atlasworldcarrier said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600103#Comment_3600103
So you admit that this game has gen rushing issues and that survivors need a nerf?
I feel this is where the problem becomes a bit weird. In my SoloQ experience teams aren't coordinated enough with the current 90 second gen times and a decent looper can completely change that. Personally I feel as if toolboxes and their addons need a look over, maybe get them more in line, but aside a few loadouts focusing on gen speeds it's hard to nerf survivors gen speeds more due to what it is already without demolishing SoloQ and making it just an annoyance to SWF.
A secondary objective could be great, but from my experience with Sadako and her tapes, people won't pick up on it, complain they can't just do gens and leave, or ignore it completely until it's an issue so I have little faith in that idea too.
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I'd rather talk about what makes it fair for both sides and tackle the oppressive and problematic things we all suffer from instead of one-sided nonsense. We should be able to explain our points of view and accept what others are experiencing with an open mind and consideration that the game is a 1v4 and should be balanced as such, or at least as close as possible with a game like this.
Unfortunately the loudest majority of either end probably doesn't play both roles enough to understand it, or just wants to see their favored side be the better one.
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I feel this already and I don't even own Chucky. Feels like you are absolutely required to run gen regression to keep any decent match pace, and with Surge returning to Demo soon, a few good or decent ones will be locked behind a paywall or waiting times with the shrine, or at least some grinding out killers with alternatives if you don't have any of them.
Unless you play a high tier killer of course, and even then it's maybe the top 3 that may not need it.