ChaosWam
ChaosWam
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774244#Comment_3774244
if the killer doesn't want to wait they will give the gate and if they wouldn't mind waiting they won't, it would be up to their decision. more often than not survivors are able to get the escape be it for the total random hatch spawn or indefensible gates so i wouldn't mind the trade off.
slug for the 4k isn't the only downside, ratting survivors also are. even 2v8 games come to a halt after 3-4 deaths because all the remaining survivors start hiding for hatch(es).
You're forgetting cases where the last survivor would hold the game hostage by hiding, which can already be done with 2 survivors. Hatch and EGC prevent this without risking giving the survivor an easy win for basically stalling out the match until either the killer opens a gate or triggers the hard cap on server time.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774042#Comment_3774042
the hatch is a mechanic is in the game for the killer as much as the survivor
noone buys that sorry. they can simply just add the ability to open the gates as the killer after some time passes.
They're not wrong though.
Opening the gate only assists the survivor in most cases. Hatch is the better alternative to breaking the stalemate quickly and creates a tense rush between whoever finds it first. The only downside right now is the slugging for 4k thing, which my only defense for is adept challenges. (As poor a defense as that may be.) -
Killers are supposed to catch you eventually, considering the point is to waste as much of the killer's time as possible until generators are done. The only exception to this is if you outplay them, mindgame them, or use certain perks to escape chase and the killer decides to swap targets.
Killers have to get 12 hooks (Or 9 if they have a Iri Mori) before gens are done. If the game allowed all 4 survivors to easily escape the killer, then the killer role has no real reason to play.Edit: Future me wanting to clarify one thing, sometimes killers can circumvent getting the hooks through things like Tombstone addons for Myers, slugging all 4 survivors for bleedout, and to a lesser extent Hex: Devour Hope but in the hex's case you'd need a FLAWLESS 5 stacks very quickly. Still holding out for some fair fixes to the first two, since I don't think Devour Hope is that unfair for what you have to do/risk of running a hex.
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It's really not that bad.
When the second to last survivor throws for the other to get hatch, the killer has an equal chance for hatch to spawn near them too. It's just a last ditch effort to save the last survivor. -
@IIITweedleIII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773679#Comment_3773679
That's always been my gameplay. I run Lightborn, and give No 💩s over survivors who claim it being a waste of a perk slot. And I play as if they are confused to why they're flashlight saves aren't hitting.
Extra points if you run it on Unknown and with Insidious.
I absolutely LIVE for faking out survivors pretending to be a fake, they eventually try to use a flashlight to see if I am a fake, it doesn't work, and I hit them anyway when they walk up to dispel me. It doesn't always happen but when it does, I get SO happy. -
The only flashlight save related thing I'm against is the flashbang+Background player combo, mainly due to the fact it works despite staring at a wall.
Otherwise, you play around flashlights, make sure nobody else is nearby with one when able and try to pick up at walls. Or, just run Lightborn. I run it with no guilt whatsoever due to the flashbang thing I mentioned and it's fun to pretend to not have it until the near end of the match when survivors finally realize.
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This is some real dedicated data collection, for a solo project. Kudos on the research!
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As others have said, it being a limited duration and only one per charge is the thing keeping it from being too strong. If they removed those, then I'd be more worried.
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I mostly have an issue with main building's left side (Facing toward the front door) having nothing but some hedges, the pallets inside houses, and lack of sight blockers down the street. The rest is fine enough to me. Glad they removed the double window things in the small houses though.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773438#Comment_3773438
I haven't read his piece, but as a Pyramid Head main myself, I am pretty good at predicting Pyramid Heads cages and if I want to tunnel, I can usually beeline in the right direction.
The cages aren't a perfect solution, I never said that, but they are a much better solution then not having them. I find the 8v2 cages a bit harder to track down then real Pyramid Head cages, I think they have more of an RNG radius in that they can spawn, then spawning in the furthest part of the map, but it could also be that the cages spawn furthest away from both killers (I really don't know), which would sometimes lead to them appearing suboptimal.
I would love to try a balanced approach: let the killer stomp survivors on first hook, relieving a bit of pressure from both sides and making it harder to purposefully tunnel someone hard, but mostly keep the hook gameplay intact. ACTUALLY, now that I think about it, the disappearing of the hooked survivor and respawning away from the killer could be used as an alternative to AFC. I know that you can use this offensively, but the main case is that you can't really facecamp such a cage without risking it despawning, potentially right in front of another survivor.
Guess I can drop my two cents on this situation.
I do think the 2v8 claw-cages would have been good, IF they went that route during the game's earlier stages. I say this because we have flashlight saves, pallet stuns, and a bunch of hook related perks that would need changes or complete overhauls, possibly even the removal of flashlights and sabotage related stuff if they decided to put in the 2v8 system into 1v4. If it were a system they had planned early, the entire game could have been made around this system.
Aside that, there's also the issue with how predictable the cages are. They're already kinda easy to figure out in 2v8, and will be way easier in 1v4, especially in smaller maps and against high mobility killers. Might work against a 4.4 speed Hag without Mint Rag, but imagine a Blight just slamming a survivor in one corner and immediately rushing at it to prevent a quick unhook.
And speaking of quick unhooks, that is another thing to consider. Current hook mechanics are a solid way for the one killer to apply pressure against gen speeds, especially survivors who are VERY generator proficient. If the cage system were in 1v4, mainly against the weaker cast, sending them off into a claw-cage right into the arms of another survivor is just lost pressure, especially if you loop them in strong tiles for a long time. Killers gain no real pressure from it in that situation, and realistically it'd be skewed odds in the survivors favor for how quick an unhook can be. And also keep in mind how fast 1-2 gens pop in early game while a killer could lose all pressure. Slugging might be the better alternative in that situation, which kinda sucks for both parties involved imo. (Unless you play a top tier high mobility killer, anyway.) -
Scratch marks needed to be fixed for a long time. I see no issue with this as of right now.
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Hopefully just some addon adjustments. His kit isn't that bad to go against imo.
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Let me think, are there any sins I've done?
- Bleeding out survivors who ran No Mither/Boil Over on RPD…. The OLD RPD with the Library
- Enjoying 1.0 Skull Merchant
- Enjoying 2.0 Sadako, but not spamming condemned (Having a good time with 3.0 though)
- Highly enjoying 2v8 on both sides
- Love Dredge's nightfall
- Run Iridescent Key with Blood Amber + Scene Partner/Object Of Obsession and TBag at a distance
- Thinks that going against Nurse isn't always so bad
- Always unhooks survivors trying to throw themselves on first hook
- Will absolutely slug survivors that attempt bully tactics that stall the game and get no real progress done
- Will absolutely blame survivors over the killer when they refuse to play around certain perks or playstyles that I know works due to experiencing it first hand
. . . Nah I'm practically a saint.
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He's a menace if you know how to hide his traps too, I love it so much. Nobody seems to expect them placed outside the corners of killer shack.
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@jesterkind said:
To answer the core question, as much more as it takes for camping and tunnelling to stop being problems.
There's something else I'd like to comment on, though. In this thread and in others, I've seen people say things like "You don't have time to wander around the map looking for fresh survivors to chase", and that's always struck me as a little bit of a self report, not to be too rude here.
What if you just go straight to the survivors because you already know where they are, through info perks or good basekit tracking? Kinda seems like the thing losing you games is actually a lack of knowledge regarding survivor location, not that you've left the hook. That should be a good thing for you to hear, though! It's something you can improve at without needing the game to change, and it's not even that hard to do, either.
Actually spreading pressure is a vastly better tactic than camping out a hook stage, because it slows down gen repair innately. Something that weakens camping won't affect killers who know how to leverage that fact, not even players picking weaker killers.
I also agree with this sentiment, to an extent.
Some killers, mainly the weaker cast, can't afford both long chases they naturally are stuck in and map traversal at the same time, even if they know where the other survivors are and especially on larger maps. Problem with fixing any of that though are the killers who CAN afford to move across the map with ease. I was adepting Hag the other day and it's night and day using Mint Rag even if it's just to traverse the map easier. Survivors still have the option to hide, pre-run, and loop good tiles on top of it as well.
Not saying this as a bad player either, most of my Sadako matches end with a 3-4k with maybe less than half getting a Mori because at least with Sadako I do have map traversal options when survivors aren't TV hounds. It's a rough thing to balance when you have both 4.4 speed Hag or Deathslinger in crowded maps and tiles and killers like Blight and Nurse in the same game. -
@D3spair said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772523#Comment_3772523
Because the average Survivor is so noob. If you encounter a decent 8-man team that decently loops. Billy will feel so weak.
This is just my opinion but, I don't want Billy to be a support Killer (Which I think BHVR meant for this mode). Doing a genuinely good curve and outplaying the Survivor should feel rewarding.I agree with this as well. I think his passive is kind of silly to have implemented for Billy as well. I think something more like 'If Billy goes into overdrive, the other killer is granted x% haste when not in chase" or something, and allow Billy to be a power role. Maybe even give Nurse something else as a passive to be a support as well in exchange since she's already very good in the right hands.
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For some reason I'm more excited about Midwich's bathroom breakable walls being removed than anything else, even as a Dredge enjoyer.
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It's only good if survivors make use of that time.
I've been getting survivors who immediately rush a hooked survivor as soon as they're hooked, even if I don't have time to leave the area. Even going as far as calling me a 'camper' for not just… Teleporting immediately across the map or something? And those who don't insult me are still crowding a freshly hooked survivor and allowing them to go to second hook stage because they don't want to risk a trade until it's too late. Because while I don't enjoy playing hook defender right off the bat, I know it's a worse play to just leave and let them take away my pressure. -
The drones will now detect anyone with a skull merchant related username that thinks lowly of her as a character, and reveals the 9mm submachine gun mounted inside it to instantly and remotely mori the survivor. (This is a joke btw, most likely just more drone alterations)
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Extend it a few more years
Please, I don't want to go back to 1v4
🙏 -
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770710#Comment_3770710
I mean you’re right on all accounts. It would maybe not work as well for 1v4 for a myriad of reasons. That’s unfortunate because it’s actually a cool mechanic.
I honestly wish they went with that at the game's inception before everything else has been tacked on.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770623#Comment_3770623
I didn’t think about map sizes… or instant saves. But neither of those things seem to happen with cages so maybe it could still work?
Cages are notorious for that though. Most Pyramid Heads have to be very careful about sending survivors into cages depending on where other survivors may be, or are known to be otherwise they get saved immediately. It's also half of why tunneling the uncaged survivor is popular as well, and that would be even worse if the replaced hooks give off-hook benefits/perk activations as well.
Heck, I think Deliverance would need a total rework as well in that case, which isn't a major problem.
Edit: Oh also if pickups were removed for this system flashlights and saves are now a moot point or completely removed, meaning more perks related to being picked up would need changes too.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770519#Comment_3770519
That claw mechanic needs to come to 1v4. It’s the best anticamp we’ve seen. It kind of functions like P-head’s cages so it’s still predictable enough for killers to prowl if need be b it denies their ability to outright camp and proxy camp without repercussion.
My only concern with it is if it actually just sends a nabbed survivor to someone instantly. It feels more fair in 2v8 with so many targets and two killers, but in 1v4 (especially against low tiers) it means a lot less pressure you can apply.
That, and map sizes. Small maps could also be an issue with it.
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I don't think it's either honestly.
I've had great games on both sides, and the lack of meta perks helps with that. The killers feel alright to go against (though I'm still not good against Wraiths, skill issue) and survivors can't just slam out gens unless the two killers get sloppy.
I'd also like to point out I've had WAY less toxic EGC in 2v8 now. Returned to 1v4 today and my first match I'm accused of camping because 1-2 survivors pressure my hooks as soon as I hook someone. Thank goodness for the entity-claw mechanics in 2v8 because of that reason alone.
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2v8 has been very fun for me. And I've had a lot of good experiences in post-game chat due to it.
Returned to 1v4 today for challenges, immediately called a camper for not immediately leaving hook because I'm kicking gens and placing some biopods as Singu. One time a Leon was looping around a hooked survivor, not trading, and wanting me to chase while screwing their teammate over and the second survivor who unhooked them was the one raging at me in EGC about 'camping.'
Not looking forward to that again.
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Queue times will be faster the more killers there are.
One of the staff around here said there's not a shortage of survivors, rather an influx of killers. And keep in mind, you can't play 2 of the same killer in a lobby. If there's 1000 Huntress players queuing compared to 200 of each other killer (as a small example) they have to wait to match with anyone other than a Huntress. -
The killswitch isn't there because of 'boredom' being a problem, only when there are game breaking bugs.
However, the maps that do need killswitched are the Autohaven ones that actually DO have the bug that has map generation errors. -
@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769084#Comment_3769084
Not really. For the last gen, survivors can pick one of 6 gens to complete. So you would have to hold a 3-gen with each killer. Very unlikely that two well protectable 3-gens will be left when down to one gen.
That's the thought I had.
I've maybe had one set of gens close enough together to maybe protect as two killers? And as survivor if anyone is a Guide it makes it much easier to pressure any 2 of the last remaining gens.
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Oh how the tables turn.
180 degrees.
To the survivor main's side.
Or something.That said, I've been playing solo on both sides and I'm losing/winning about the 60% mark equally, if not I'm doing better on surv side because I'm a guide main since nobody else likes gens.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768558#Comment_3768558
I actually jumped out of my skin and burst out laughing when I was juicing a Wraith, and Trapper blindsided me out of nowhere...
I took it as a point of personal pride that it took 2 killers to down me and bought significant time for the 7 other people of my team.
That's always my mindset playing survivor. I never expect to run a killer for realistically more than 45s, any time I buy over that I consider a job well done.
If I was consistently able to loop the killer for 3 minutes or more, I'd get bored fast cause it makes the killer no longer feel like a threat.
But hey, that's just one opinion 😁
Highly agreed with this.
I had a similar feat against a Huntress and Billy. The Billy was using a legacy skin too, so he was cracked. I looped Huntress at shack for a solid minute before Billy had to try and help, and even then it lasted another 30 seconds when I ran to swap loops. Bought the other 5-7 enough time to do a few gens, depending on what Billy was doing prior.Killer doesn't need broad nerfs to killrates. Survivors need to step up and learn the nuances of 2v8. It took me awhile to realize killers had aura reading post-gen pop and once I learned that, it made it a million times easier to pre-run every time a gen popped or was kicked.
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We all have good days and bad days. Some people trying duo-killer may also have never really touched killer before as well until now.
In those cases, I'll change course and help assist their chase a little bit to assist em. Just an injure or pressure the survivor's better escape routes to give the other killer a small chance and a confidence boost.
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@duygu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769901#Comment_3769901
that is the topic, i think you need to take a look at the title again. it has always been "this will balance 2v8" not "fix this bug"
The title is 'This will balance 2v8" and immediately says "Killswitch Huntress" with no mention of the aura reading that you actually have a problem with.
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@duygu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769469#Comment_3769469
they need to get rid of the constant in-game wallhacks. on the contrary hillbilly's chainsaw should be an instadown again. it should be concerning why huntress is more effective than both hillbilly and nurse in this mode. just the fact that there's another killer to force survivors out of cover makes her too strong.
So to reiterate, Huntress is not bugged and the real issue is overuse of aura reading?
So why isn't that the topic? -
@Inosennatoki said:
Trapper is very weak in 2v8.
I'd argue he's not.
A good Trapper with loop knowledge and foresight can turn the tide immensely. I see him as more of a support killer for whoever the other side plays, able to cut any chase short if they plan ahead correctly and keep up on their traps while not putting them in obvious spots. Plus, disabling traps is still a lot of extra knowledge for your duo to rely on.I've carried a few matches as Trapper already, mainly due to some of my rando duos being Billy, but a few times I've out-chased Wraiths with the right trap placements.
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Is Huntress bugged?
No?Then the killswitch isn't needed. Dodge hatchets.
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Unsuccessful? Have you seen the surge of players since it released?
I think we forget that the highlight is 2 killers can play with each other, so that's going to be the more popular angle, even if survivor were throws all the bonuses and shiny toys imaginable. (Unless of course they made the survivor role COMPLETELY broken, I guess?)
I mean, think about it. Killer queue times are insane right now because a surge of players are now able to play killer with someone else instead of alone after 8 years. Of course it's going to be popular no matter what and skew the queue times. -
@Shroompy said:
The amount of people defending this is insane.
This is coming from a P100 Trapper main, there is absolutely 0 reason to have this anymore as all it does is hurt newer players, which even then they wise up to it pretty quickly. So now you have this mechanic thats simply there to be obnoxious and is absolutely unnecessary for the sake of realism, just like Adrenaline and Freddy.
That being said, time to make Makeshift Wrap basekit.
It's weird too because we had lightburn removed and other QoL updates for killers to not be as hindered by their powers as much.
The only real argument against it is it makes some loops more difficult to evade Trapper in if he can bypass certain traps while survivors can't, usually the strong point of his addon that allows him to do so. And yet, nobody else here has even brought that up, just insults and argument bait.
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It's actually making me play Huntress better, a killer I typically avoided because I'm not one for axe-throwing mechanics in games already. With all the targets playing wildly different it's helping me decide how to throw and when to throw. I know she's tuned differently than in 1v4, but the foundation is always what I had trouble with when it came to huntress in the first place. I may actually try playing her more than I do Deathslinger when I decide to run ranged again.
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Honestly, you have a great point.
The kill animation is fine and all, don't get me wrong, but I think a required Mori is more cinematic. The only downside I can think of is it further incentivizes slugging due to killers thinking it might take too long to do the Mori instead of just continuing the hunt, even with your speed boost idea. In the case of 2v8, I think adding an unbreakable mechanic makes sense due to this as well, but in exchange add a tiny bit of slowdown to gens being done by a group, not too much though, maybe another 1-2% for a compensation?I'm honestly having a tough time figuring out how to balance 2v8 because for the most part, it's nailing the balance pretty closely. I say this as someone with equal matches on both sides right now.
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… Can you even 3 gen in 2v8?
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It can't possibly be people wanting to try to play killer with a friend or another random killer, especially after 8 years of killer being a solo thing.
That DEFINITELY won't effect queue times.
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Give me Deathslinger, please, it would be hilarious with a Billy
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Me and the Scout on gens when the other Guides are off unhooking one survivor.
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I love this mode.
I've tried a handful of each killer and survivor so far. And while matches have been mixed (One 8k on killer, one 8 Escape on survivor against a Nurse and Trapper combo, THAT was amazing) the matches have felt chaotic and crazy and I'm here for it.
I can't wait for BHVR to improve what they need to and hopefully release it later as a permanent addition.
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I've had NO bad games, win or lose on either side so far.
My last match against a Were-Elk and legacy skin Billy was some of the most fun I've ever had, the chase was crazy and even after dying I was just having a good time.
And Trapper feels SO rewarding when a trap works for your teammate.
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No salt from my matches so far.
But I have had some hype moments with my rando killer. I still need to try survivor side but so far I'm loving this. -
Assassin.
Shorter cooldown times, more chances for hits, less being in M1. You can stall with Jailer but honestly, if survivors are smart they'll pressure the gens and evade both an M1 killer and a bot.
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I'd be more shocked if 2v8 didn't have bugs at all.
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Hooking over kills is one thing.
Handing over free wins against killers who DO spread hooks is entirely different. Besides, I guarantee SWF will still abuse it by 99'ing a gen, letting the SoloQ die and then popping it to escape. It'd have to be VERY fine tuned toward actually tunneling. And even then, what happens? Someone gets tunneled, they still have a bad time, and the rest get off scott free and even faster. -
I see this mostly with Reddit and Steam Discussions more than these forums, but it's always going to be there due to the nature of a 1v4 game.
What's important is we try to be as non-biased as we can so the right changes are made. Imagine if we just let that gen glitch that was patched today slide? Or the time Merciless Storm took chunks of progress of gens?I myself hate that Lampkin Lane got changed for the worse in terms of loops and main building strength, but don't condone potential infinites it used to have with the windows. Or how Forgotten Ruins promotes mainly keeping the outside gens regressed since going into the dungeons can lose most killers the match. Or a better example being one of the new variants for Sanctum's Wrath having no lockers in the extended areas around main and shack, for both locker related perks and Dredge.
And one other gripe I have with the community that most don't take into account is overall perk synergies and killer power disparities. We're not all like this, but people tend to forget how drastically different killers have to be played and what effects them, and why certain aspects can't be overly buffed or nerfed due to this.
But I think the worst aspect of the community is the sheer toxicity and planting their flags on survivor side or killer side and never relenting their views. I can't say I've been entirely non-biased myself, but I tend to keep it in line with certain perks or killers I've had good experience with, while the ones I'm talking about seem to write off entire aspects of the game because "x is bad, so-" and it's a mindset I'd love for this community to get over. Though, this is the internet and it's not going to just go away overnight because some of us are tired of it.